>The red eyes only show the intent to brutally kill the enemy in front of him.
>The golden Servant identifies the knight in front of him as a target he must kill.
Why was Gil scared of Archer?
It doesn't matter, he's never serious 99.9% of the time, he's an arrogant douchebag who only gets serious the split second before he gets BTFO'd.
>never serious 99.9% of the time
Think about your words anon.
But yes, I agree. Unlimited Blade Works >>>>>>> Gate of Babylon. If Gil just used Ea, he would be fine. But he won't.
Serious EMIYA could defeat any servant too because he can just snipe them from across a city. They both have character faults of not caring, it's part of who they are. "Serious Gil" doesn't exist so it's pointless to think about it.
>Unlimited Blade Works >>>>>>> Gate of Babylon
How so? THE only thing UBW has is a faster firing speed. That's literally it. And even that is not really an advantage, considering how long it actually takes to use UBW.
GoB has far more verity and versatility, containing pretty much everything from weapons capable of immense damage, to fucking space ships, to shields and armors strong enough to block NPs, to the best fucking wine. It also only takes only a split second to use, and is actually unlimited, unlike UBW, which only lasts as long as the users Mana does. UBW is fucking trash in a fight, while GoB is OP as all fuck.
Pick one. Gil's greatest weakness is his arrogant pride. He always underestimates his enemies, even when he deems them a threat or a worthy opponent. He always assumes that he'll come out on top, and it costed him his life when he fought Saber and Shirou.
The ONLY time he DID get completely serious was when he tried to kill Sakura before she could transform into the avatar for Avenger. He failed and was devoured.
Yes, the whole point is that Gil needs to kill Emiya before he gets to deploy UBW, once he's inside UBW he's pretty much fucked unless he uses Ea at full power, something he refuses to do 99.99% of the time because hurr durr not worthy of using Ea on
Why the fuck doesn't EMIYA ever exploit the fact that he has a treasury full of Noble Phantasms with diverse and useful effects and instead insists on challenging the other Servants to direct, head-to-head battles equipped with a pair of plain swords whose biggest gimmick is a boomerang effect?
Yeah and he's probably fought every servant there at least 5 times and knows their strengths and weaknesses and remembers it.
They just want him to stabby stabby and fail at or not use his archery abilities because of chuuni boner
The excuse is that he honestly doesn't give a fuck about the war and wants to kill shirou and be free of his hellish life.
He was ordered to stall Berserker as long as possible.
Also he barely ever gets a chance to use the full extent of his powers besides the fight against Berserker at the begining of UBW
Shirou's gambit only worked because he baited Gilgamesh into a dick-measuring contest to see who could spam swords faster, the ONLY thing UBW is better than GoB at.
If Gil had actually bothered to activate any of the NPs in his Gate instead of just firing them Shirou would've been fucked.
He's actually super unskilled at it, so for Emiya, bladespam is just a waste of mana against skilled servants. Only reason it worked on Gilgamesh was because UBW 1:1 copied him.
Nasu even mentions in some interview or material that bladespam wouldn't work on the average knight class and it's Gilgamesh's capability that makes it effective.
>the most powerful servant in the history of mankind is a ginger teenager who was too lazy to actually master a weapon or skill so he invented some copypaste bullshit magic and literally stole everyone else's abilities that they worked a lifetime for
>this man is the "protagonist"
Wow.... what a story...
No, no it means literally nothing. The speed means literally nothing when you need a 15 seconds chant before you can even fire your first shot. In that amount of time, literally every servant can kill Archer 15 times over.
>If Gil had actually bothered to activate any of the NPs in his Gate instead of just firing them Shirou would've been fucked.
Except that he wouldn't have time to do so because by the time he got his handsnon any NP, Shirou was already in his face with the exact same NP because projection is instantaneous inside UB.
Did you even play the scene?
>Nasu even mentions in some interview or material that bladespam wouldn't work on the average knight class and it's Gilgamesh's capability that makes it effective.
Which is stupid considering Saber is shown to have trouble dealing with bladespam whether it was from Gil or Emiya.
The only Servant that ever displays immunity against it is Cu who has Fucking Protection from Fucking Arrows.
Nasu is just a moron who loves downplaying Shirou in interviews and retconing his feats with each new edition of the side material to make Servants look less like a bunch of jobbers
It's almost like he realized having a bunch of japanese teenagers beat the shit out of legends of history/myth is kind of retarded in retrospect.
Which he wont use because muh faker not worthy of any my treasures, not to mention that UBW can also trace armors and defensive armaments albeit with an increased mana cost
Just face it, Gil is an arrogant jobber who always lets his ego get the best of him and gets fucked in the process
Gil has actual bolts of lightning in his treasury. Like literal lightning, not a weapon. He has auto defense system that stops anything coming close to him by shooting bolts of lightning at them. He has shields capable of blocking NPs. He has fucking nukes.
The only reason he lost was because Nasu made him job against all odds, since the protagonist needs to win somehow. His not worthy bullshit isn't even consist with how his character has been used to fight weak shits ever since.
The entirety of Extra-verse, the weak shit you encounter in GO, and in fighting things he doesn't even know in Strange Fake. So basically in his appearance in literally every Fate entry since.
That's true when EMIYA is fighting most Servants. But when he's fighting Gil, UBW is the ultimate counter since Gil is a king rather than a warrior. He has a ton of weapons, but he never even attempted to master any of them.
EMIYA however not only can counter Gate of Babylon, but he can analyze the properties of all the weapons in UBW and of GoB and thus instantly use the most effective means of wielding them (not like a master, but close).
EMIYA and Shirou are outclassed by other Servants, other Servants are outclassed by Gil, and Gil is outclassed by EMIYA and Shirou. It's rock paper scissors. EMIYA can beat Gil.
Every servant has weakness. You're taking that word too literally. A weakness doesn't have to be a glowing weak spot that you can hit to kill them. It could be anything they're not good at handling. Take Blue man. He was killed by a type of holy spear brought specifically to kill him. Or Herc. Even if they don't get a specific weak spot for him, they know for a fact he can't cast magic, so they can make their plans accordingly with that to gain an upperhand.
Yes he did underestimate the healing ability, and no he didn't use Ea. The point is that that time was the most serious Gil has ever been, and even then he still held back. Even when he used the sneak attack Gate of Babylon on Archer after his dual with Shirou, he still underestimated Archer and was shot in the head by him at the end of UBW. That's the point I'm making. Gil is NEVER 100% serious with his enemies due to his arrogant pride, that is until he realizes he's about to be defeated and it's already too late. There's a reason why Gil is often referred to as the King of Jobbers.
Its not exploitable in the short duration of hgw.
His biggest weakness is geass. But no one can activate it.
Also you can troll him with dog to force him to fight you seriously but I wont recommand it.
Arturia have literally no weakness. She is perfect, cause she is nasu or takeuchi waifu
What I really meant was that UBW can be countered by a simple shower or use of a strong sword before it is even cast. Remember, throwing a really fucking strong sword is far easier than using UBW.
If you ignore his Herc/Arturia level strength and swords skills good enough to keep up with Arturia, as well as just endurance and strength to take on Enkidu in a fistfight. Gil's level of strength changes every time he shows up.
>he never even attempted to master any of them.
Except the one he has, called Ea. His own weapon, which only he can use. Only he has mastered.
Remember, these statements you're repeating are what Shirou claimed. He does not know Gil. He just made a simple observation. It doesn't have to be correct.
Archer's Mana wasn't replenished in time when he fought Berserker. Even then he killed Berserker 5-6 times. Had EMIYA had full Mana and no injuries, he'd kill Berserker completely by using Nine Lives Blade Works like Shirou did.
>3 years have passed
>secondaries still cannot grasp basic concepts of F/SN
>secondaries still refuse to just read the VN
Why do you insist on being ignorant? There is still time, you can still read the VN. You don't have to be a dirty pleb your whole life
Ea takes a while to charge up and Archer is fast as fuck. He'd just literally disarm Gil before he could use Ea like Shirou did.
I wish i could go back in time and kill myself so i end up erasing all the timelines where i read that pile of shit. I should have read Tsukihime.
As an idiot who watched F/Z first, I kept getting pissed off that masters kept fighting (and sometimes beating) servants in F/SN. F/Z makes it pretty clear that it's basically impossible under it's own (more sensical) rules, even if those rules came after F/SN. It makes a lot of sense that any servant would crush a master, so the battles are typically fought as MvM and SvS.
Then how is he supposed to use Ea before bleeding to death? Don't answer that. Youre obviously baiting.
The issue is that Shirou was never cool. If Kotomine or Kiritsugu did it, it would make sense, considering their obvious abilities and large amounts of training. Shirou is implied pretty easily to be a newbie, and while I could imagine EMIYA beating Gil, Shirou doing it is absurd as all hell (even considering the "Gil is an arrogant bastard" factor).
>where he does LITERALLY NOTHING,
I can't believe I have to go all out against a fraud like you!
This shit right here is why I gave up on Fate after S/N, H/A and Zero. Nasu's not only turbo autistic when it comes to his MUH PSEUDO RPG SYSTEM, he can't make it consistent for shit.
Add non-stop powerlevelling and ten thousand spinoffs featuring the same characters BUT ALTER/GENDERBENT/BIG TITS/WHORE/DIFFERENT CLASS MEANS DIFFERENT PERSONALITY/DIFFERENT CLASS + ALTER, etc etc and it's clear at this point he's just making shit up as he goes to appeal to his rabid fanbase, when the whole Fate setting is literally too big and complex even for the creator to keep track of, how the fuck can you expect quality writing?
I still fap to the doujins even though I know nothing of the characters, but fuck trying to understand Nasu's schizophrenic ramblings
It's amazing how Fakerfags still can't accept the fact that Gil only let Shirou win, and even that only because plot demanded it and because that was his first appearance. He was overpowered back then, but he's gone through the roof with every entry in the Franchise ever since. Now he even has technology, magical technology, like fucking miniguns and fighter planes with nukes in his arsenal. No matter how much the fakers TRACE ON, they won't be keeping up with dozens of bullets coming their way every single second.
Just accept and move on. Whatever the fuck you may think of the character, his entire point is to be stupidly overpowered. Something that is stupidly overpowered winning isn't a surprise, nor is it an insult.
Because player action=/= plot action
You could go through each boss fight and not even bother NPing to keep Gil as his cocky self, or you could solo NP every single enemy you ever meet.
You gonna tell me the second one is canon because one person did it?
No, I'm going to tell you the second one matters because that's literally the entire point of allowing player to do it. If they thought it was out of character, they wouldn't even make that an option. Like how it isn't an option to just say fuck you to Moon Cell in the beginning, rather than doing it in the end. Because Gil doing that for no reason is out of character, as it doesn't make sense.
They even block the NP until a certain point in the games, so it's not even that they couldn't block it entirely for Gil. They didn't. Making it an option, something Gil is willing to do. That's the point.
Reminder that unnerfed BASAKAH would have had everything statted as EX or A++. He was the BEST swordman at the time when Arthur and Mordred existed. No noble phantasm will save you if you get shafted by superior speed, power and reflexes. He is so amazing with a sword that every NP he has is forced to deactivate.
Lancelot would shit on everyone in Fate Stay Night had Rin summoned him. Even Gil would get fucked. Lancer cant even contest his power and ability in a fight.
Imagine if berserker was summoned by a competent magus that could handle the mana cost? It would be absolutely massacre, he is the strongest servant in Fate by a mile. Even Karma cant touch him
Gil wouldn't let the Moon Cell block shit.
It's a video game and it's done for balance reasons, not story reasons, same reason they unblock it, because at that point in the game, not using it is impracticle.
However player action=/= plot action, you're sperging over nothing.
If Rin would have had summoned him he should get at least one rank buff like Saber did with Shirou/Rin
>Luck: B (Can change to either direction)
His sword was A++ like his gunho style which means theyre pretty damn good. Lancelot would shat on everyone with stats alone but his NP is close to a decent Rider one.
Going by the stats he is the strongest Servant in fate. For gods sake he can catch swords shot by Gilgamesh, Lancelot would destroy him if buffed
Again, you missed the entire point.
The point I was making with the blocked bit was that it has been made unavailable to the player. Making the NP not available has been done. If they really thought it was OOC for Gil, than they could have just not programmed his NP in CCC, and given the excuse that he didn't want to use it. The very fact that they added it in means they considered it not OOC for him. For example, even in CCC, you can't just insult Gil. Because if you did, he'd kill you. You can make fun of Tamamo all you want, but not Gil. Because taking that would be OOC for him. They literally removed an option from player because it doesn't work with Gil. They COULD have done the same with his NP. They didn't.
At that point, the creators are saying you can do it, it works without breaking character. If you argue that it's just OOC, they wouldn't put it in. Because there's no reason to. Fuck, there was no reason to even have Gil if it broke the character so much. But they did go through with it, because they didn't think it was a problem. If the creators are saying it's not a problem, what problem do you even have?
In GO, they are getting mana directly from Avalon and his stats are nowhere near that level.
Lancelot and Kariya have great compatibility, so even if he doesn't have the juice, his stats are almost all kitted out.
Archer won't be able to cut his arm off if Gil uses his armor. Armor + Ea + GoB then it's pretty much over for Archer. But as many anons said, it wouldn't happen because Gil can't bring himself to take Archer seriously because the moment he takes Archer seriously, that would mean losing to him. He's just too prideful.
>the moment he takes Archer seriously, that would mean losing to him
Yeah, that's why he went out of his way to kill Archer first. That's a retarded bit that makes no sense added in the anime. He makes no such claims about losing for taking seriously in VN.
I actually agree. F/SN is my favorite story ever, but I just can't get into all the spinoffs like FGO/Prisma Illya/Extra, etc.
Type Moon is probably hurting their legacy in the long run and most people are too intimidated to watch the fate series anyways since the absurd amount of spin offs.
He wouldn't be any stronger, really. Kariya was forced to give him whatever mana he wanted since he couldn't control the flow, so he was generally fighting at top performance.
His stats are filled out, he'd just have more gas in the tank. Just like a car's performance doesn't depend on their gas, Berserker Lancelot doesn't really scale high with mana.
This is a really stupid thing to say considering the fact that chimera ants aren't remotely strong in the new continent - and were enough to insta-kill gon/killua after greed-island.
Fate/stay night [Réalta Nua]
Tsukihime Fun Disc: Kagetsu Tohya
TMDict, a compilation of Nasuverse dictionary entries
Shirou made it a fight of originals vs fakes which meant that Gil was screwed from the moment UBW came up. Even if he did get enough space to use EA, he would still 'lose' because that means he won by being a bitch and bringing out a weapon that couldn't be faked instead of proving the superiority of reals over fakes.
Yet Sabers stats are C when summoned by Shiro, B when under contract with Rin and A while summoned by Kiritsugu. Id take VNs over gachalore any day of the week.
Luck is dictated by that, not pure stats. Or will you argue that Kiritsugu was better match than Rin?
Because a monster that was previously lethal will be literal ant tier when they get off the boat. Power levels have MASSIVELY fluctuated in the last 2 arcs.
Don't even make me bring up Hisoka
>originals vs fakes
It was never that. The fakes are a rank below original. There's nothing to fight for there. The fight was to kill the other. Simple as that. And Gilgamesh didn't even consider fighting and practically threw the fight, while Shirou did, which is why he won.
It only stopped working after the target already knew exactly what would happen after experiencing defeat countless times and used a command spell. And even then he says that if he'd been in full Grail War mode and had his swords prepared, then he would have been able to drive Saber away long enough for the arrow to finish off Shirou. He also wasn't receiving support from Rin at the time.
>"There's no need to be surprised. These are all imitations.
As you say, these are all trifling swords."
I reach out my arms.
The swords come out as if to accept me as their user.
"But there is no rule that an imitation cannot defeat the original.
If you say you are the original, I shall surpass every one of your weapons and destroy your existence."
Takes precedence over every other piece of lore because it is both the newest lore and the lore tied to the flagship.
Besides, this is Zero lore.
>will you argue that Kiritsugu was better match
I guess I can. As people, they were much more similar than Rin and Saber, they just had different frames of reference.
>Artoria’s abilities rose when having Kiritsugu as Master. Her LCK status decreased since even Kiritsugu still could not provide sufficient magical energy, as a result the status was affected by the Master's way of life. When having Rin as a Master, Artoria was able to unleash her original abilities without being affected by the Master
>Because Artoria has served under several Masters, she is a good example for demonstrating the effect that the Master’s magical energy has on Servant Status. Because Shirou’s Magical Paths were obstructed, Artoria’s ability cannot be called that of the best Servant while having Shirou as her Master.
Here we see that Kiritsugu was a bad match of Saber causing her luck to fall even though he supplied magical energy(albeit not enough). Yet it rose when Shirou(who supplied nothing) was the master ergo its more about the personality than the amount of magical energy.
>Magical energy in GO is unlimited ergo stats are capped
Yet we see this isnt the case. Kiritsugu doesnt supply mana near as much compared to Rin yet Sabers stats are higher while summoned by him. How can it be?
>Also, if the magic energy of the Master is powerful, the Servant will become closer to his strength as in the legend.
Powerful doesnt mean more prana though. Kiritsugu was inferior to Rin as a magus but arguably more powerful in combat. Same goes for Aoko and Touko, one is shit at magic and has less prana while the other is a living prodigy. Yet Aoko is considered more powerful.
Ergo If BASAKAH had stronger master his stats would increase.
>inb4 lore from a thirdparty Gacha is more important than a book written by Nasu, who especially designed it to be a book about lore.
>But its old, gacha is newer!
Its being republished and translated. Nasu allow companies to publish old and outdated lore
Are you dumb?
Her luck fell because Kiritsugu was going to use her as a tool and no possible end with him would be good for her, that says nothing about her general compatibility since no amount of mana could keep her from being caught up in his grimdark.
>Powerful doesnt mean more prana though
It does. This isn't rocket science, being better at fighting doesn't give you higher magic output.
You can abuse the shit out of Lancers weakness if you know his name.
>Cu is fated to lose against any Ulsterborn wielding Caladbolg
Rin just needs to fly in an Ulsterborn to Japan and Archer can give him his traced Caladbolg. Then they just tell him to fight Cu.
Are you retarded?
It's because all of Archer's swords are fakes made by his tracing ability, all of them. What's worse is that they're actually inferior as part of Shiou's limitations as a magus and the nature of tracing.
There isn't a universe where the normalfag Agravain couldn't rolfstomp Lancelot no matter what form he was in.
i can see this, and the only difference is hes even more hilariously arrogant and has access to even more stupid shit in GoB, but nobody can actually tell since hes too fucking arrogant to change up any of his shit.
The problem in that scenario was Shirou. Had Shirou not been there, Saber would have taken Archer down. The reason they kept losing was because Saber was forced to protect Shirou the whole time.
Really? it's simple as fuck
Gil hates EMIYA's copies, because his whole pride as a servant is how he has the original of every NP ever made, Archer being able to copypaste his precious original weapons is insulting to Gil, so he keeps calling Emiya a "faker" to mock him and remind him who the real deal is.
The only NP that can destroy UBW in Gil's hands is Ea, so long as he refuses to use it, Emiya can destroy every weapon in GoB, because Gilgamesh never learned to use them properly, only to throw them or swing them like baseball bats.
>Berserker stats: A+/A/A/A/B/A
>Emiya stats: D/C/C/B/E/?
>Emiya still killed him 7 times starting from melee range as a fucking archer
Reminder that unless it's luck or NP, stats don't mean anything in fateverse
>It does. This isn't rocket science, being better at fighting doesn't give you higher magic output.
It really doesnt, stats have multiple factors
>The summoning Master and local attributes have some influence, but it’s basically the hero’s known exploits, and the recognition afforded them by the people of the world, that decide these rankings.
>If Chu Chulainn had been summoned in his homeland Ireland, a castle, chariot, protection of sleeplessness, and the like would have been added probably.
>Powerful doesnt mean more prana though
Yet how come people with less magic energy give servants better stats anon?
What is this sophism?
With regards to the statement "Also, if the magic energy of the Master is powerful, the Servant will become closer to his strength as in the legend." it is directly regarding magic output and capacity.
It's an issue of priority. Neither Kiritsugu nor Shirou have the mana capacity to cap Saber off. Thus the stats are adjusted to accommodate that. Kiritsugu has no interest in luck, leaving nothing to chance, so in order to maximize Saber's combat potential under Kiritsugu, her stat priorities align themselves accordingly. In order to make sure that Saber is as effective as possible, something has to give.
Under Shirou, Saber was more well-rounded, having better luck but overall inferior stats. Shirou could not grant Saber the necessary magical energy to max her out, but at the same time, she wasn't min-maxed to accommodate that. No, ultimately, what Shirou needed was a well-balanced Servant, and having high luck is ideal in this case.
It is a question unrelated to the point.
The poster claimed that "if the magic energy of the Master is powerful, the Servant will become closer to his strength as in the legend" means that being better in combat means that you summon stronger servants.
honestly if emiya had the ability to snipe at range instead of being stuck in close quarters where his swordsmanship is shit tier like he was i would honestly give that fight to emiya.
just like i'm fairly convinced herc has shit compatibility against Gilgamesh unless hes archer and can straight up ignore thrown projectiles like you see him do in F/SF.
Gil looks down on EVERYONE. He is arrogant and prideful to EVERYONE. Archer is no exception. He deemed him a threat but not one to that he thought could best him.
He tried to kill Archer because he deemed him a threat, but that doesn't mean Gil thought he would lose to Archer. Gil just has no honor and is THAT prideful and arrogant.
Make him ejaculate with his skill and swordsplay?
He was so fucking good at it Hercules snapped out of his Mad enhancement for a few seconds just to think to himself how much fun both of them could've had clashing swords together if he weren't under the mad enhancement.
>shit tier swordsmanship
>his arm on a japanese teenager beat Saber Alter in a sword fight
>he can trade blows with Lancer in close combat
>even Heracles was mirin after their fight
Archer's sword skills were far from shit tier.
That's got nothing to do with it. Environmental factors alone isn't going to max out a Servant's stats. The Master is just as important, if not moreso. For instance, even if Shirou were to summon Saber in Britain, he still wouldn't be able to max out her stats.
The important thing is magical energy. Neither Shirou nor Kiritsugu are capable of maxing out Saber's stats. Had she been summoned in Fuyuki, her stats under Kiritsugu would have been even lower. In the end, making Saber as strong as she could possibly be is utterly impossible for either Emiya short of using a Command Spell. They just don't have the capacity for it.
Think of it this way. Let's say that 100 units are necessary for Saber to reach her full potential, like in a tabletop RPG where you're given a certain amount of points to allocate to your character's stats. Two factors can affect the amount of points the Servant receives: the place where they're summoned, and the Master's own capacity as a Magus. With his own ability as a Magus, Kiritsugu can only give Saber about 60 points. The location she was summoned in gives Saber an additional 20 points. But that only gives her 80 points to work with. So Saber's stats are adjusted; in order to max out her other stats as far as possible, Luck has to be neglected.
It's been over a fucking decade and this shit bait still exists.
Look you faggots. Shirou won because that was supposed to be it. That's where it was all supposed to end and Gilgamesh was the final boss. The protagonist needs to overcome him somehow. Back then, Gilgamesh had nothing but throw-able weapons, his armor, his chains and Ea. Shirou won back the, because Gilgamesh had literally nothing else he could do. That makes all your rattling gun and super shields and magical defense and lightning bolts from GoB to counter UBW arguments null and void. Because they DIDN'T FUCKING EXIST. Nasu didn't know everyone would start sucking Gilgamesh's dick after Fate/Zero. But everyone did, and so he continued pandering to those faggots. As a result, Gilgamesh got to absurd levels, where Shirou cannot possibly match him now. But it doesn't fucking matter. Shirou doesn't have to fight him now. He fought him when he had the advantage, when Gil had literally nothing he could do against Shirou except use Ea.
And yes, I know he fought again in the anime just a couple of years ago. Do you know what they did? They changed the fucking fight. They had Grail and Archer help Shirou out as he was DYING. Your Gil still fucking won, but Shirou remained the last man standing. Even then, there were faggots like you who complained how Gilgamesh didn't fight properly. Well fuck, do you want Shirou, the protagonist to fucking lose you fucking retards? Because that destroys the story. Learn to compromise a little. Sure, you're little claygay faggot can be the strongest, even Shirou can't beat him now, but at least for the sake of the story, let one victory go to Shirou. Even if you Gil would destroy Shirou in every fight, in that one fight, let the kid have it without bitching about how Gilgamesh didn't destroy the fucking story. Jesus fucking Christ.
What are you talking about? They explain it in the story. The reason Gilgamesh lost was because of Unlimited Blade Works' superior draw speed. As long as they're fighting, Shirou will always be the first to attack, meaning Gilgamesh will always be defending. This puts him at a disadvantage. Even if Gilgamesh threw out something huge, it takes time. In the time it takes for Gilgamesh to pull something specific out, Shirou can shoot a hundred Noble Phantasms at it, destroying it. This is exactly what happened at the end: Gilgamesh drew Ea, but Shirou already had two weapons in his hand, flying towards his arm by the time it was drawn.
The one and only condition for defeating Gilgamesh is raising Unlimited Blade Works while his guard is down.
To put it another way, a battle between Shirou and Gilgamesh is like a battle between two gunmen, one with his weapon already drawn and pointed at his opponent, while the other still has his gun in its holster.
>Gilfags are still butthurt their king of heroes got beat by a japanese highschool student
>b-but if he was serious he could win the grail war in one night
Yes but being that arrogant to the extent that it bites him in the ass is part of his character traits. Take that away and he isn't Gil anymore.
You are challenging a direct statement by the author on his own mechanics, man. Wringing your hands about how it's not the only factor doesn't change the truth of the statement.
The entire fight, Shirou was always using the exact same swords as Gilgamesh. When he saw Gilgamesh draw a sword from his vault, Shirou drew the exact same sword. Because UBW's draw speed is faster, even though Gilgamesh reached for his weapon first, Shirou was always the first to attack.
But the part with Ea was different. Shirou didn't bother waiting to see what Gil was drawing, because he was already anticipating that ahead of time. While Gil was reaching for Ea, Shirou skipped the procedure of waiting for Gil to reach for a weapon first and instantly drew Kanshou and Bakuya.
How to win the Holy Grail War if you happen to summon Gilgamesh
>Hope Enkidu is in the war so that he doesn't act like an arrogant fuck
>Hope EMIYA isn't summoned to bait Gilgamesh into a thrown sword off
You don't understand Gil's powerlevel at this point. He has been shown using Shields capable of blocking Noble Phantasms. The entire thing that UBW did to Gil was that it made weapons of equal-ish power and shoot at the originals before they could launch. That's the entire reason why Shirou didn't shoot a sword at Ea, instead he cut off the arm. Because he couldn't make a copy of that, thus he couldn't shoot a copy at that. Opening a Gate doesn't take time for Gil. What takes a split second is shooting the weapon from the Gate. That becomes a non issue when he's not shooting anything. When what he's drawing is not a bladed weapon that Shirou can copy and stop the original with.
Now, Gil has a plethora of things that can't be copied with UBW. He also has many ways to defend himself. A lot has been mentioned in this thread and you can just check the wiki for more. As for Shirou just destroying those things before they even come out, which isn't even possible for some of the shit he has now, Gil can defend that one particular item by simply opening a shit ton of Gates in front of that. There's never been a limit to how many he can open. And as mentioned before, he now has fucking bombs and magical machine guns. Things even Shirou can't defend himself from, no matter how fast he copies.
Point is, UBW counters Gil's projectiles. During F/SN, he only had projectiles. Now, he has pretty much everything.
Why is it that anime-only fans like Ufo-UBW? Absolutely none of the actual mechanics are explained and things actually elaborated on in the VN are turned into complete asspulls in the anime.
Magic energy doesnt imply amount of prana ergo GO doesnt cap stats. For example Aoko has different magic energy compared to Touko even though Touko has more prana thanks to Aokos "simple circuits". Plus Aoko is considered more powerful while having less prana than touko. There is more to magic in fateverse than just sheer numbers anon
Also the fact that Kiritsugu who provided less mana than Rin provided better stats means that the notion of more prana = better is false.
Nope. Re-read the fight. Swordspam only negates swordspam. The main fight was a close-quarters fight between Shirou and Gil. Gil draws a weapon, Shirou draws the exact same sword even faster. They clash, and Gil is forced to break break both weapons in order to defend.
When Gil drew Ea, Shirou already anticipated it and had Kanshou and Bakuya drawn first. He knew it was coming, so he prepared beforehand.
>has seen every NP there is and fought servants to the point he has a collection of their weapons in his reality marble
>can copy their experiences by projecting it.
Nah, he just didn't give a fuck.
Extella/Zero had him try hard and he managed against Gawain. Lu Bu, Vlad and only lost to Nero because he already too half-burnt half crumbled.
I'm not saying "anime-only" for everything, just that they went to UBW not having read the VN. The anime itself is bad when you don't already know the story, while it's a great spectacle when you do know the story and get to skip past all the minute details.
Caster Gil is Gilgamesh as the older, wise king of Uruk. He's far more benevolent than Archer Gil, more wise, more hardworking. He seals away Gate of Babylon, but his extremely huge number of powerful Mystic Codes allows him to be a Caster of the highest caliber, despite not being a Magus himself. He's still arrogant and self-absorbed, but he's a far better person than Archer Gil. His Alignment even changes from Chaotic Good to Lawful Good.
And if you want to earn Gil's favor, you just have to be Kishinami Hakuno.
You haven't read Mahoyo or any of the surrounding material. Aoko doesn't have a different kind of magic energy, she's just more efficient. And her magic stock is still inferior even if she is better at fighting.
And Kiritsugu summoned Saber in Europe, where her fame is much higher compared to Japan, resulting in a better container.
There is still only one interpretation for the statement "Also, if the magic energy of the Master is powerful, the Servant will become closer to his strength as in the legend."
>Gil draws a weapon, Shirou draws the exact same sword even faster.
That's the entire thing I'm saying. He now can draw things Shirou can't copy. Which gives him an upperhand. For some examples, he can now draw magic. Automatic defense system that'll shoot lightning bolts at Shirou. These are things Shirou cannot copy and counter. Gilgamesh only really got these in later appearances, so in the original VN, he could not use these. Now, though, he's gone beyond being ridiculous.
And Im waiting for proofs given how lore contradicts it. My interpretation doesnt matter at all, what matters are proofs that more powerful = more mana. Powerful is a vague word after all
> Yet, those hands will never hold anything
tis a curse
To not be too high up your own ass. There's been an air of carefreeness among everyone he has liked. Though Kirei was initially more stuck up, with Gilgamesh's influence, even he became more "fun".
Lore doesn't contradict it on any point, retard.
Kiritsugu's Saber having high stats despite having less mana input can be attributed to another mechanic, ie fame.
The fame in Germany of King Arthur, where she was summoned in Zero, is higher than the fame of King Arthur in Japan, where she was summoned in FSN.
>The fame in Germany of King Arthur, where she was summoned in Zero, is higher than the fame of King Arthur in Japan
If she was summoned in 2017, would it still be true? Fate and other Japanese media has been featuring King Arthur pretty often, making him more popular these days in Japan.
He didn't respect Kirei. He thought Kirei was interesting, like a school project, but also thought he was lower than trash.
Gilgamesh likes earnest, hardworking people who reach for their desires with all their might. A degree of selfishness is necessary, because he believes being selfish is the right of humanity. A Master who respects Gilgamesh, but also has enough selfishness to covet him as the greatest and most powerful Servant is ideal.
Earnest effort should be rewarded. Reaching for one's desires without hesitation is admirable. And even if the entire world should spit on such a person and repeatedly attempt to destroy their hopes, how could he possibly ignore them? For he is humanity's oldest King of Heroes. The gods may spurn you, the world may curse you, but if you can withstand that and still crawl fruitlessly towards your desires no matter how pathetic you may turn out, that King alone shall reach his hand out towards you.
Rejoice, lowly Master. The King of Heroes shall become your sword and shield.
Expanding upon this response:
In Strange Fake, once a certain participant of the Grail War learns that AHeracles is a hostile participating Servant, he immediately calls for a Hydra Venom dagger to be brought to him.
Just because very few people tend to be proactive does not mean that they *cannot* be proactive.
Tine does in SF as well and he likes her.
He also gets mad when people don't act with a degree of servility in his presence.
He kept shit talking him and being annoyed every time Tokiomi told him something.
Tokiomi was a petty man whose groveling was all just for show. His respect for shallow, only so that Gil would obey him.
Respect must be genuine.
Incidentally, Gil also values honesty. Someone who can be up-front with him without holding back is refreshing to him. Hence why even though Andersen told him exactly what he thought of him, Gil didn't skewer him on the spot.
>Andersen :: Though my tongue may be cut out where I stand, as I have been asked, I will speak my estimation of you without reservation! To start at the conclusion, you don't qualify as a Servant! I can't give you a single point! And as a Heroic Spirit? That doesn't bear discussion! No matter what records you consult, Gilgamesh was a ruffian that brought suffering to his country and his people. Calling you a king of men would make me laugh. A fool who united heaven and earth, ruling over men without governing his country. A King of Heroes is just that, and not to be called a king of men even by accident. That principle of kingship is simply to reign. You establish yourself as a king, but that state is nothing but a storm with will. First you destroy. And after that you cannot even promise a good harvest. And in that sad state you gather the riches your subjects produce. Greed. Cruelty. And conceit. Those three things raised to their ultimate form and then made into one — that's what you are.
>So, so close, I can't listen to this...! Gilgamesh holds his imposing stance just as it is, not so much as twitching, looking on as Andersen slings abuse at him. I wouldn't be surprised if he killed him right now, with that –
>Gilgamesh :: —–.
>— refreshed, expression...?
>Anderson :: Serfs raise their crops, kings raise their countries. But you didn't even raise a country. You did at all nothing but kill and pursue your self-satisfaction. Your nation, your followers, your legend, none of it continues after you. The only thing remaining to you is yourself. Is this contract, too, nothing but an amusement to distract you from your boredom? An adjudicator who enjoys human emotions without understanding them. That is your true nature, Gilgamesh. Hakuno Kishinami. Don't think you'll come to understand this man. You should act as his Master and nothing else. All right! Feel free to take my life now! I have said what I wanted to say!
>Gilgamesh :: Heh. I have no need for your life. It is utterly insignificant. That was not an estimation of value, in any case. It is a story you have written. If your tale portrays the king, it will find room in some corner of my library.
>Andersen :: Well, that's good, I didn't fancy dying here right — wait. You recognize its worth? Then pay the fee! Will the famous golden king really just listen and be done with it!?
>Gilgamesh :: There's nothing for it. When offset by such vilification, this is the assessed value of your work. If you want payment, reassess next time, mongrel. Though you a literary master with a twisted nature, after all...
>A malicious grin crosses Gilgamesh's face. ...these two may actually get along better than expected...
How many years are we going to debate Redman vs Gil? How many years are we going to use the Shiro fight as an example even though Gil wasn't even wearing his armor through that fight? EMIYA would not be afforded the same luxuries that Shiro received.
Everyone will always be gay for GARcher
Archer copies all of Gil's weapons, ironically not just faking Gil's pride and joy but also faking what Enkidu can do way better than EMIYA can (Enkidu produces 100% perfect replicas of all weapons he sees, EMIYA's are ranked down)
>well-received by /a/
/a/ enjoying anime?
Dumb additions like bondage Sakura and QUALITY aside, it was boring. Seriously, I read Fate just after finishing the DEEN anime and I had fun despite already knowing everything that happened from watching the anime.
It fell for a common trap of LN adaptations at the time in that it tried to merge multiple routes together. Adaptations did this to give a better general representation of the highlights of the source material (since they served as ads for the source), but the result was almost always a borderline incoherent mess with nonsensical pacing. That's exactly what Deen's FSN adaptation suffered from.
Plus the source material moves at a glacial pace and spends a great deal of time fixated on the aesthetic of it's split-city at night and Shirou's plodding, ponderous thought process. The adaptation shifted gears to a fast paced action show, but still included scenes that then had no place in a fast-paced action show. Fans of the VN were disappointed that it was so different. Fans of the tv anime were disappointed the VN was so different. That sort of misalignment of expectation is a hallmark of a poor adaptation.
HF is arguable since he seems content that Shirou won't follow in his footsteps, though I still suspect that EMIYA's timeline was the superhero badend. He seemed happy-ish at the end of UBW as well.
>To not be too high up your own ass.
>Gilgamesh likes earnest, hardworking people who reach for their desires with all their might.
Shirou summons Gilgamesh. What happens?
genderswapped gil when
im rusty on my fate lore but isn't he like omniscient from seeing the entire worlds future and chose to not keep immortality because life was boring
so any time he loses he meant to lose
what would have happened in zero if kiritsugu got Gilgamesh
I fixed the white smidge near the bottom left of his coat. Sorry about that
>not being here watching EP13-14
From the way the Redman started chanting to that smug look he gave to bersercah was glorious.
Never have we seen so much GAR
The whole 'servants outside time learn things' never made much sense. Emiya is way after the 'now' of most fate series, so no one living can normally identify him. But even after that Shirou dies way before taking on Emiya as name when a CG. But then CG/Heroic Spirits knowledge bounces around because 'lol outside time, but didn't read every report/volume from their summoned clone'. It's just random contrivance of what they know each time a copy is summoned. Can they draw on knowledge from different timelines?
That only happened in the anime. The novel doesn't say that Tokiomi used a Command Seal.
Even then, compare it to any other time a CS has been used to order a Servant to do something they don't want to do. They either resist for a few moments or they immediately do it against their will. Gil on the other hand basically turned around and went "u serious bro?" without any signs of pressure.
>The novel doesn't say that Tokiomi used a Command Seal.
It explicitly states that he uses a command seal because it becomes a plot point later in the story that he used a command seal, hence the reward for one of killing caster, and Kayneth killing Risei after getting his.
Not really , Solomon is a grand, and merlin is a grand caster candidate, same way caster gil is, but since Merlin aint quite dead yet to enter the throne of heros gil is next in line.
the MOONCELL makes him competent enough to make him compete.
To be fair, he wouldn't go all out against Saber because she was his prize and he didn't want to destroy her. He never stood a chance in the first place, as the use of Avalon was only delayed for dramatic effect. A serious Saber would have used ti immediately and cut him down before any words were exchanged.
Well, no. The blades themselves are limited to what Emiya has seen and recorded. If a specific sword is broken, then Emiya has to pay a greater mana cost in order to reforge it.
Remember the threads we had about Lancelot before /Zero came out?
I think we came to a conclusion that Lancelot holding a black hole in one hand and Shiki by the ankles in the other would be undefeatable.
Best version right here.
The funny thing is that GIl's legend has him and Enkidu using some insanely heavy weapons to kill Humbaba or whatever that divine beast's name was, and Gil could just take it out and slap Shirou away with one hit.
>Gilfags are THIS retarded
He couldn't beat Saber, and he couldn't even defeat her boyfriend.
One of them was a massive axe or sword i think.
Nothing stops gil from shooting GOB while he holds a sword in his hand and kills shirou in one hit. Blocking a massive weapon which he used to kill a divine beast would have sent Shirou flying at best.
Shirou's swordrain can counter Gil's. That's why it boiled down to a melee fight. There were swords flying everywhere during their fight. Whenever Gil shot his swords, Shirou countered with his own, negating the swordspam completely.
It was melee fight. If Shirou went on a range pissing contest, he'd lose because Gil can think. Gil had melee weapons, but can't use hard counter shit since Shirou just smashes the sword in melee as well.
And stats aren't the issue. The problem is the Noble Phantasms themselves. Due to UBW's superior weapon draw speed, Shirou always had his weapons ready before Gilgamesh did. By the time Gil had his weapon completely out, Shirou was already swinging a blade at him. It doesn't matter what your stats are; if you get hit by a Noble Phantasm in the face, you're going to die. So Gilgamesh had to defend himself with his own weapon, shattering both. Then the same thing just keeps happening. As long as UBW is up, Gilgamesh is at a disadvantage because he's constantly on the defensive.
Literally what. He can bring out any random NP and use it just fine.
His super clairvoyance also means that on the off chance that he doesn't know, all he has to do is look at it and then he knows what it does.
Shirou was able to beat Gilgamesh because by that time, he had already absorbed a lot of EMIYA's ability anyway. The UFO anime literally tells you this, it can't be made any clearly. Shirou and EMIYA's battle boosted Shirou to extremely high levels.
But not nearly as much as Miyu!Shirou installing his future self in Prisma Illya
Gil's a retard. He wanted to prove his originals>shitty copy.
Problem is passive bonus that Shirou gets when using said NP. If Gil draws a famous great sword, let's say Balmung, Shirou draws same shit smashes it with the same intensity as suminai smashing it to Gil.
You are the very definition of a fucking secondary. He DOES use weapons. He just doesn't use them properly. He only starts doing that in games like Extra.
Because Shirou gets the power to use any weapon he traces, no matter how heavy it is, you fucking retarded. That's the entire reason he's even able to use Nine Lives Blade Works.
>So Gilgamesh had to defend himself with his own weapon, shattering both
There is literally zero explanation for why this happens.
And moreover even if there was Gil could've just pulled out a weapon known for being unbreakable.
He will never be able to use Excalibur on Artoria's level, let alone Balmung on Siegfried's, or Gae Bolg on Cu's, or anything like that. He probably wouldn't even get as far as EMIYA tracing those abilities; Gilgamesh just isn't half as good with other peoples weapons who are attuned to their history and battles - he just happens to own them, in the sense that other heroes borrowed them and got good with them.
Just because Gilgamesh can understand that Gae Bolg is best went thrown, even with the crook of the toes, doesn't mean he'd be half as good with it as Cu would.
>What the fuck is Arturia secret weakness?
Excalibur is a high prana attack with limited uses.
She's OP if she has Avalon but beatable if she doesn't.
Moralfag thus you can use underhanded tactics.
Also super selfcontious about her kingship and thus you can BTFO out her. She'll get TOLD so hard her ass will still be hurt the whole rest of war.
>If Gil draws a famous great sword, let's say Balmung, Shirou draws same shit smashes it with the same intensity as suminai smashing it to Gil.
The Balmung in Gil's treasury hasn't even been touched by Sumanai yet. It has no wielder. Shirou can't get his bullshit boosts from it.
If Gil had pulled out literally anything other than a sword Shirou would've been fucked.
What if he pulled out some broken ass shield? Like Akhilleus Kosmos? Or Rho Aias? What the fuck could Shirou do then?
>Did anyone bring up that, just because Gilgamesh has a bunch of NPs, it doesn't mean he knows how to use them?
No where is it said anything about mastering them. And he doesn't need to. He's good enough with any random weapon that he can combine it with his weapon spam to overwhelm Saber.
Just dropping in to say that UBW is the best route. Fate route has too many awkward scenes between Saber and Shirou, HF takes way to long to get started and both have too much fucking cooking. UBW is balanced and action packed with an escalation of events without any lulls right up until the climax
sounds like a solid plan to me
He does not have Akhilleus Kosmos period, it was forged for Achilles specifically by Hephaestus, much like how he does not have Gae Bolg because it was forged by Scathach for Cu Chulainn.
What he probably does have is an older NP that is similar in function that inspired it.
He does have Gae Bolg, though. He explicitly has it in Fate/stay night. Shirou even identifies it by name.
And Scathach dual-wields a pair of Gae Bolg. And can make it rain Gae Bolgs.
That's what was claimed, yes. But he doesn't use any of those in the original VN. Throwing random weapons, his armor, chains and Ea. That's all he had in the VN. If he had demonstrated some of "virtually everything", not using some of them would feel like a cheap plot device to make him lose. But he hadn't shown anything, so him not using anything special made sense.
That's not true, though. The reason the swords themselves are ranked down is because even being a sword autist doesn't allow Shirou to comprehend the totality of a Noble Phantasms's divine mystery, there's always a piece missing that he can't replicate because he doesn't understand it in the first place. The skill and strength of the wielder is something that is not hard at all to comprehend, it's all physical things rather than conceptual. The issue and reason why Shirou can't match a Servant by tracing their own weapon is because not only is the weapon going to be ranked down, but Shirou can't beat someone by using their own skills against them because those skills are meant for another person's body and talents. Shirou can't pull off Lancer's moves as well as Lancer can because Lancer's body is different from his, and moreover if Shirou tried, forcing his own body to move as quickly and powerfully as Lancer's would destroy his muscles and bones like how Nine Lives Blade Works destroys Shirou's arm if he doesn't have Archer's arm to bear the burden of fighting as hard as Berserker for just an instant.
If you read the VN, Shirou beats Gil not by tracing fighting skills with each sword, but by tracing each sword Gil pulls out, drawing it faster than Gil can since it's already in his hands the moment he traces it while Gil has to make an exaggerated swinging motion to grab the sword hilt and draw it out, and Shirou drops all pretense of skill the instant he gets in close with Gil the same way he dropped all the skill he had acquired from Archer during Shirou vs. Archer and starts just swinging like a madman. Shirou just swings as hard and fast as he can to keep Gil on the defensive, counting on Gil to basically panic and screw himself over. The fight is compared to a hero trying to slay a dragon, counting on million-to-one odds of everything falling into place despite how outmatched they might be against their enemy.
>much like how he does not have Gae Bolg because it was forged by Scathach for Cu Chulainn.
Scathach didn't make Gae Bolg, she just tried to recreate it after getting it from the person who actually crafted it and failed to do so a bajillion times.
That's not it. Not all Noble Phantasms are divine constructs. Shirou explicitly CAN'T recreate divine constructs to begin with.
The reason all Noble Phantasms receive a rank down is because there's a limit to how much data about a weapon Shirou can analyze with sight alone. That's why the only Phantasm that Shirou can recreate perfectly is Avalon, which he has a perfect blueprint of inside his body.
>That's not it. Not all Noble Phantasms are divine constructs. Shirou explicitly CAN'T recreate divine constructs to begin with.
A divine mystery isn't a divine construct. All Noble Phantasms are divine mysteries.
>The reason all Noble Phantasms receive a rank down is because there's a limit to how much data about a weapon Shirou can analyze with sight alone. That's why the only Phantasm that Shirou can recreate perfectly is Avalon, which he has a perfect blueprint of inside his body.
Yes, Shirou was able to comprehend all of Avalon's divine mystery thanks to having it inside of him for so long and perfectly reproduce it. He fails to do this with any other weapons even as Archer who spent his entire life, at least two whole decades, studying the swords he uses like Kanshou and Byakuya.
>She's OP if she has Avalon but beatable if she doesn't.
Not even. Even with Avalon, Saber knew she had only the slimmest chance of victory against Gil and it required not letting him know about Avalon before she could block Ea and exploit the opening it left in his guard. Avalon might be touted as the "ultimate defense" because Nasu wanted to wank Excalibur's sheath from just keeping the user from bleeding out, but even as something invincible against True Magic, Avalon has a pretty glaring weakness in that using it places you in the actual dimension of Avalon, with all the side effects that entails. So sure, you might be invincible against literally everything in existence but you also can't fight back as long as its active. It's the kind of thing that sets you up for getting nuked the instant you deactivate it, and even if you were to have literally infinite magic to use it forever, you'd still have to deactivate it at some point to, you know, kill the other guy.
This is probably the most pointless argument to be had here. Even the creators just outright states Gil only really lost because Fate/Stay Night was a "love conquers all" story. Not to mention that Gil's entire fighting style is made up as he goes along. Whatever is needed at the moment, they'll just have him pull out. Do you actually think Nasu has planned and decided what every single item in Gil's treasury does? How many there are? No. He hasn't. He himself at times just resorting to saying "take out some really unfair item" when asked about Gil's powerlevel shit.
Powerlevel discussions only really work against a defined powerlevel. Against someone with virtually everything, you can't compete. When the entire argument can be worked around by saying "he'll just pull out some shit", that's not an argument.
Then don't. Shirou is a great character, even if you don't self insert.
>tee hee, I'm a plain bespectacled Japanese schoolgirl with self-confidence issues out of the wazoo but somehow ancient legendary ikemen are falling in love with me by the truckload?
No she's just as annyoing.
UBW is awesome because of best girl. Older Tohsaka is just unf. Fate has second-best girl, though I can very easily see why some think she's best. HF sucks both because worst girl and because it requires Shirou to throw away what makes him himself except arguably Spark Liner High.
Signs are pointing to that not even counting as Gil being serious anymore. For one thing, there's a big difference between Gil taking out Ea and Enkidu and Gil taking them both out and then also using Ea at full strength.
Isn't Excalibur divine? Didn't EMIYA explicitly say that he could create a close enough facsimile to be stand up to at least one clash with the real thing, albeit at the expense of his life?
>generic substanceless action and tsundere heroine
I can smell the underage from here.
>wouldn't you rather self insert into a girl instead of a japanese high schooler? i mean come on.
Clearly Nasu does.
Are we sure Nasu is a dude? What kind of self respecting high school boy writes something like Fate/Prototype as their high school wish fulfillment fantasy?
Well, there's a difference between that and wanting to be a girl to get rammed by King Arthur and Gilgamesh. That's a bit of a step-up. At most you'd usually just think of faceless-male dicks.
Isn't it sad that Ilya got the Sacchin treatment? Kotomine was by far the most interesting part of HF. So much so that in retrospect, his development in the other routes was seriously lacking.
Swordspam was grinding Saber down quite effectively and was going to defeat her if things continued that way. Saber specifically had to bait out Ea by feinting as if she was going to use Excalibur. If Gilgamesh knows about Avalon, he wouldn't fall for that bait (as Saber acknowledges in the narration of the fight). He has plenty of options for taking her out that don't leave a major opening in his own defenses. Saber's instincts basically told her that the only way she could win was by tricking him into fighting her in one very specific way.
Gae Bolg is a Divine Construct and EMIYA can trace it. Same goes for Excalibur Galatine. Nothing ever says EMIYA can't trace Divine Constructs; the reason he can't trace Excalibur is because it's made of materials that aren't present on Earth, thus he has no access to them in UBW. In the Mooncell, however, those materials are available because the Mooncell has them catalogued, so he's capable of forging Excalibur Image.
Rin was intelligent, skilled, and brave. Tsun-ness aside she was a strong character in her own right and far more compelling than the almost completely devoid of personality Sakura.
>bitches about tsunderes
>posts generic meek childhood friend character
>Gae Bolg is a Divine Construct and EMIYA can trace it. Same goes for Excalibur Galatine
I mean i'm not sure about Galatine but Gae Bolg isn't a divine construct because it's made by Scathach from Curruid bones
>I mean i'm not sure about Galatine but Gae Bolg isn't a divine construct because it's made by Scathach from Curruid bones
Wrong. Scathach did not make the true Gae Bolg. Some goddess did. Scathach only made hundreds of attempts to recreate it and failed every single time.
>Gae Bolg is a Divine Construct
No it's not.
>Nothing ever says EMIYA can't trace Divine Constructs
>[v] Fate/complete material III: World material - >FAQ with Nasu: Noble Phantasms, p.134
>Q: What is the limit of replication in UBW?
>Q: What is the limit of replication in UBW? The highest level of NP (sword types) is probably Ea, but while it might be impossible for Shirou, could Archer make it? Also, under the meaning of weapons, to what extent can he make modern weapons? Must it be only blade types or can he make guns and mobile weapons?
>A: Divine constructs like Ea and Excalibur are non-replicable. There might be some degraded NPs with similar performance in stock though. Also, since sword is becoming his origin, the weapons that he has stored are fundamentally limited to close combat.
>almost completely devoid of personality Sakura
She's literally one of the very most fleshed out characters in F/SN along with Shirou and Kotomine. Maybe you missed all those interludes detailing her thought processes because there weren't enough explosions and swordfights in them, though.
>Q: What is the limit of replication in UBW? The highest level of NP (sword types) is probably Ea, but while it might be impossible for Shirou, could Archer make it? Also, under the meaning of weapons, to what extent can he make modern weapons? Must it be only blade types or can he make guns and mobile weapons?
>A: Divinely forged weapons such as Ea and Excalibur are non-replicable. There might be some degraded Noble Phantasms with similar performance in stock, though. Also, since sword is becoming Shirou's origin, the weapons that he has stored are fundamentally limited to close combat.
>Infinite Creation of Swords [Noble Phantasm]
>Archer's noble phantasm. A barren wasteland lined with a thousand blades. A great ritual deployed using eight lines of projection. A type of old world magecraft, called a reality marble, which manifests the internal world of the caster and writes it over the world for a small amount of time. All of the weapons Archer can project are there and in this space he doesn't have to project them from scratch, instead he can immediately pull out the weapons sticking out of the ground.
>In EXTRA, the conditions for where wrought iron is possible are boosted so projection of holy-sword class weaponry is possible, though their performance is inferior.
>Okay truth is, I was surprised to find that the staff in charge of the 3D had made animation for Excalibur being projected while I was looking the other way.
>Well it is new animation after all and there's no reason to reject it. So long as it's a degraded version, I guess it's okay.
>No it's not.
It was spelled out explicitly to be one in F/GO because it was crafted by a goddess.
> Divine constructs like Ea and Excalibur are non-replicable.
Both of those are exceptional divine constructs, not your regular every day shit. Both are made of alien materials, though Ea is double-extra impossible to trace since it's inherently anti-reality marbles like UBW. Excalibur still has exceptions for when EMIYA can actually use it anyways, and not just the ultra-degraded form he uses in F/SN either. Like stated, he can trace the real fucking deal in CCC since the Mooncell has the materials necessary to reproduce it.
Gae Bolg Alternative is merely an approximation of what the real thing can do and requires the use of two failed attempts at the same time to recreate the same effect.
>hurr durr Curruid bones
Yeah, why do you think Scat was trying to recreate Gae Bolg in the first place? Because the goddess made the original out of those bones.
Archer has always been shown to be able to reproduce divine constructs. Ea and Excalibur are exceptions amongst exceptions and even then Excalibur has exceptions to its exceptions, as you so helpfully pointed out for me.
The reason Ea can't be replicated isn't something that roundabout. Ea has multiple copyright protections attached to it.
1) It's a divine construct, so it can't be replicated by Unlimited Bladde Works.
2) It's an EX-ranked Noble Phantasm, which can't be replicated without support from the owner.
3) There can only be one.
4) Only the King of Heroes has the right to possess it.
Sakura literally is a non-character plot device and the True end is the literal definition of asspull that magically fixes any consequences the story had. Her Mary sue is painfully present in HF. Sakura's becoming the grail essentially derails the entire war. Even manages to take the spotlight away from Shirou. The fact that Sakura also becomes a God-Mode with enough Mana to blow up the world like a billion times doesn't help this characterization. If she ever does anything wrong, she's both instantly remorseful about it and easily forgiven by those she wrongs. (Makes Shirou kill Saber, forgiven by Rin, etc. THE reason provided for this is the Grail making her "ebil")
The flashback arc in prillya basically takes what works in HF and removes all the awful contrived nonsense and cooking scenes. It portrays Shirou who went through similar things to HF Shirou but still remains interesting and understandable. It portrays Sakura and Shirou actually having a bond beyond sex and Sakura having actual inner conflict. And the reason why Shirou sheds away his ideals is far less rushed and far more grounded than what happens in HF because the narrative actually focuses on that bond - you see his conflict grow, you see him warm up to having a sister, you see his conflict with what Kiritsugu represents, you see him slowly lose everything he has till only one thing remains, etc. AND there's no magical fix-it-all at the end of an arc. A person is saved, a person pays the price - the end.
>isn't something that roundabout
Anon there's nothing roundabout about it being made of shit so old and so alien that it literally shreds Gaia's reality marble in a local area if activated at full power. It fucking breaks Shirou's brain to try to analyze its structure because it goes against all the laws of Gaia. All the shit you said is irrelevant; by the logic of "ONLY X CAN USE Y" Shirou shouldn't be able to use any of the weapons he traces since they're all specific to a given Servant. But we already know he can because traced weapons are Shirou's, not the Servant's.
>Editor: I'd like to start off by asking you two how you became friends.
>Nasu: It's not a very interesting story, but we went to middle school together. I was a very forgetful kid, and I forgot to bring an eraser to the new classroom I was going to be in. So I looked at the kid next to me and said "Sorry, but can you lend me an eraser?" He was the one I asked. (Laughs) And that tied our bonds for life...
>Takeuchi: All I remember is at the time he had asked me "Can you lend me an eraser?" so fast that at first I couldn't tell what he was saying.
Alternative is just the specific name of Scat's NP, all her spears and nunchaku and shuriken are still just called Gae Bolgs. But there's still only one original and only one Divine Construct Gae Bolg, and that's the one she gave to Cu.
You stupid nigger, everything you've been saying is all the old Beast's Lair fanon. It's literally in the fucking VN that Shirou's head explodes when he tries to analyze Ea. Him being unable to trace it has nothing to do with your fanon 'hurr durr copyright laws.' You're the same kind of stupid fucking faggot who tried to talk bullshit about Excalibur having special copy protections from Gaia when the only reason EMIYA and Shirou can't trace it properly is due to lack of materials.
>While the shape is similar, in fact, it's a different thing from the spear Cú Chulainn, uses. It is an older version, and a similar item to the Gae Bolg that was used. In this case, there is not one, but many copies of them.
>It is an older version
Her NP profile in mats still doesn't prove this retarded "GB is Divine Construct"
What is this Koi to Uso bullshit?
Is Nasu a VN heroine or something?
>Though it is wielded by Gilgamesh, who has the prototypes of every Noble Phantasm, the Sword of Rupture Ea is different from the other Noble Phantasms that can be possessed by other heroes. It alone is a completely unique existence that can only be possessed by Gilgamesh. Therefore, even with Unlimited Blade Works, it is impossible to reproduce it.
Anon, please. All of this is shit that Nasu said himself.
Nope. see >>161146987
and fuck off with your fanon shit.
Gil has plenty of ways to defend against Excalibur that aren't reliant on Ea. Arturia's instincts acknowledge this in Zero when they confront each other over the grail; she knows that he likely has surefire defenses against even Anti-Fortress noble phantasms and doesn't feel too confident about just trying to nuke him.
>spouts fanon bullshit
>"n-no ur spouting fanon"
Actually read the materials you secondary scum.
Like I said, Scathach says it in an interlude or America. I can't be assed to go TL diving for it; it's common knowledge in /fgog/ and Beast's Lair regardless. And that profile directly contradicts Scathach's stated reason for making so many Gae Bolgs, which was to try to replicate the original.
Read the VN. The reason Shirou fails to trace Ea has nothing to do with that crap. UBW is just unable to analyze it, it doesn't even get to the reproduction phase.
He can't analyze it because it has multiple properties that make it impossible to replicate.
Nasu said all this. Why the hell are you arguing? It's a Divine Construct. It's an EX-ranked Noble Phantasm. It's a wholly unique existence that can only be possessed by Gilgamesh. It is thus completely incompatible with Unlimited Blade Works.
>Like I said, Scathach says it in an interlude or America
This is all she said
>But this isn't the divine construct created by the god of the sea, Manannan.
>Unfortunately, it's just a spear.
>From the leftovers of a sea beast.
She doesn't say that Manannan spear is Gae Bolg