Was he going easy on everybody?

>implying either of those are swords
>implying even fat man or little boy would be more than regular A rank nps

>>161043297
>1) Trace a nuclear shelter.
>2) Trace a nuclear bomb.
But those things aren't swords.

>>161043362
A shield isn't a sword, and still he is able to trace a shield.

>>161043389
Took him decades to master that skill, with constant training because he realized that only projecting swords was fucking useless when shit hit the fan, you filthy secondary mongrel. Also >>161043358

>>161043297
Hilariously, a nuclear bomb is weaker than any of the sword he traces. Yeah of course they destroy everything and kill thousand of normal people, but not magis and their Servant. They save themselves in various ways. You could injure Saber but she'd heal instantly, also some Servants are just immune (like Hercules Berserker, he'd take absolutely 0 damage).

>>161043574
I highly doubt servants or magis are imunes to radiactivity. They all are going to be breathing radioactive air.

>>161043362
>>161043358

He can trace non swords, he literally does it a lot you dumb ass.

>>161043574
>Hilariously, a nuclear bomb is weaker than any of the sword he traces.
Also I don't think they are stronger than a fusion nuclear bomb.

>>161043663
they dont need to eat, why would they need to breathe, aside from Saber?

>>161043796
masters don't need to breathe?

>>161043297
No, it was just that NASU IS A HACK.

>>161043682
It takes a lot more mana for Shirou/Archer to trace anything that isn't a sword.

>>161043574
A projected nuclear weapon would bypass the resistance most Servant's have against conventional arms effectively ensuring a kill against most Servant's as long as they don't have NPs that can take it like Karna and Herc (as even Saber's regen can't outspeed being flash vaporized). Not that it matters since Emiya can't actually make a nuke even if he could theoretically reproduce all the materials.

>Q: What is the limit of replication in UBW? The highest level of NP (sword types) is probably Ea, but while it might be impossible for Shirou, could Archer make it? Also, under the meaning of weapons, to what extent can he make modern weapons? Must it be only blade types or can he make guns and mobile weapons?

>A: Divine constructs like Ea and Excalibur are non-replicable. There might be some degraded NPs with similar performance in stock though. Also, since sword is becoming his origin, the weapons that he has stored are fundamentally limited to close combat.

>>161044540
>A projected nuclear weapon would bypass the resistance most Servant's have against conventional arms
Why would it?

>>161044622
Because at that point it's actually a nuke made out of magic. All you need to damage Servants is for your attack to include magical energy so a literal magic nuke would do the job same as how reinforced shit, other projections, or the assdagger can all harm them.

If Emiya had a competent master he could have soloed the war.

>>161044954
Rin is pretty much best master he could ever get

>>161044954
No, he couldn't have. He's a terrible Servant.

>>161044954
I remember a material book that said that Rin is the most compatible master for him.

>>161045097
That just means he's good at dicking her down.

>>161044954
Rin wasn't the problem. Emiya could solo if he actually wanted the Grail but he gives no fucks even when it's a proper wish granter.

Archer is the prime example of Nasu being bad at balancing.
>realize he's OP, so gives him shit stats
>realize stats don't mean shit, his abilities were just too good
>make him and his master retarded instead to fix the problem

He could have just spent the first day or two storing overcharged NP's into UBW then spend the rest of the war casually nuking everyone from a safe distance. Instead he fights with worthless swords against people who are better at close combat. At least he could have projected weapons with more specialized abilities, but I guess that was too much of a hassle.

>>161045401
He literally doing it in HA and it's not auto win for him.

>>161045390
>>161045401
He can't kill Sasaki, Caster, Hassan, Berserker, Lancer, and he couldn't kill Saber in F/HA under ideal conditions for himself. I don't see what he has to offer against Medusa either.

>>161044954
How would Redman get through Gil? Remember he's a servant unlike Shirou, so he'd be deemed "worthy" enough to have enkidu and EA used against him. He'd have gotten straight fucked. Even Cu gave him a hell of a fight and Cu was command seal nerfed.

>>161043297

Ignoring Nasu Character Alignment Gilgamesh is Evi?

What would be like Good or Neutral Gilgamesh?

>>161044954
If EMIYA was the protagonist's Servant he could have won the war. He's strong enough to hold his own and has enough surprises in stock to potentially beat almost everyone else, but none of the matchups are sure victories.

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>>161045566
> Caster

Medea was on home turf and Archer stomped her
Granted he says, she still had some trick in her sleeves and if it wasn't for Saber, he wouldn't have got past Kojiro, but 1v1 EMIYA counters her hard

> Hassan

Utterly stomps him
the only reason he didn't do so in HF was because The Shadow intervened

>>161043297
Every Servant is "I'm really a complete badass but I'm not using my full power because reasons".

>>161046053
Lancer still beats him. He can match Archer in melee combat; a single Gay Bulge took out almost all of Rho Aias, and Lancer can use it multiple times. Only way Archer could win is by trying to snipe (a strategy that has so far only worked on Servants that were already distracted), or UBW and try to Zerg him.

>>161046053
>Utterly stomps him
He has no counter measures for stealth. His fighting style requires a ton of setup and he has shit stats, meaning he wouldn't be able to save his Master in time.

>>161045808
Cu literally had all the abilities to counter Gil and still lost.

>>161046263
>Only way Archer could win is by trying to snipe (a strategy that has so far only worked on Servants that were already distracted), or UBW and try to Zerg him.
Not when Lancer has Protection from Arrows, a ridiculous AGI stat, and Disengage. Lancer is probably the single hardest counter to EMIYA in that war.

A nuclear weapon is way more complex structurally than a sword and swords are all he can trace easily. Anything else he tries to trace would be hollow.

>>161044954
>could have soloed the war
>when Cu fucking manhandled his bitch ass

>>161045566
>can't kill Caster
Literally fucked her up while nerfed and not trying to kill her. An Emiya who isn't trying to betray Rin would have just killed her off before she could recover/snap and destroy the temple.
>Assassin
Literally dead the moment Caster's gone since her buffs are the only thing stopping Emiya from nuking him.
>Medusa
He can't do shit against the Pegasus but it barely even matters while her Master is still Shinji.
>Cu
Uphill battle but still doable since Emiya is the king of asspulls and always has an out to Cu's own broken Celtic bullshit. Still probably Archer's hardest matchup which makes the fact they are always stuck in wars together funny.
>Berserker
He is one of the few Servants in the war with the actual means to kill him enough times and was basically half way there with no Master support, stuck in melee, and forced to stall for time. And that's ignoring silly shit like disabling Berserker for long enough to just Rule Breaker Ilya and just drag her home with him.
>Hassan
Hassan is trash the moment he's stuck fighting and isn't just assassinating your Master.
>Saber
Literally a fifty-fifty if he sticks to sniping like a goddam Archer should.
>Gil
See Shirou vs Gil except less rage inducing since Archer is also a Servant.

>>161046263
Lancer can't spam the thrown variant. Not that he needs to since the thrust gives no fucks about Rho Aius but the whole point of the scene is that Archer can play Cu like a goddam fiddle.

>>161045401
Has killed Berserk seven times in Fate, and it's pretty good Frim his part. The Power level is just an inconsistent bullshit and not even Nasu cares. He simply made sure that all servants had different roles in the various ruotes.

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>>161043297
>traces OP's mom
>drops her from exosphere
Voilà, kinetic bombardment.

>>161046344
Protection from Arrows doesn't defend him from explosion and such

> Gil fires NP
> CC parries
> NP lands near him
> explodes due to passive ability or some shit
> CC is injured
> repeat for 12 hours

This is a fact
Gil>>Berserker>>Lancer>Saber >>Rider>Archer>Caster>Assassin>True Assassin

>>161046427
That and sense he's more then likely been called in to fix grail fuck ups across time and remembers all of those times...
He's probably fought and killed every servant at least 5 times by now.

>>161046427
>Archer can play Cu like a goddam fiddle.
You mean almost get killed before Lancer gets called off. Archer's ranged attacks wouldn't work on him at all (both from his bow and just throwing swords). To say nothing of the runes Lancer could use as well.

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The only time EMIYA was a scary threat is when he acted like an actual archer in hollow ataraxia.
A fucker who snipes opponents 4000 meters away from him using broken phantasms is dangerous.

>>161046427
>played Cu like a fiddle
>when during the melee Cu was slapping his shit, and after he throws the Raw Ass/Gay Bulge clash Archer's a broken mess only left alive after the fight because Rin asked Cu to do it, while Cu is still in fantastic shape

>>161043297
You have zero grasp on this guy personality, abilities morality and ideas. Go re read entire VN 5 more times and the apologise for the most stupid argument you could make.

>>161046427
> Emiya is the king of asspulls and always has an out to Cu's own broken Celtic bullshit

Caladbolg is only Kryptonite against CC when it is wielded by a warrior who hails from Ulster

> See Shirou vs Gil except less rage inducing since Archer is also a Servant.

Gil whips out Ea, the moment Archer deploys UBW. He underestimated Shirou, because he was some human trash in his eyes.
He'll kill Archer in this scenario.

>>161046530
>>161046616
Archer wouldn't be able to hit Lancer at any decent distance, he wouldn't even need PfA. The only reason he cornered Saber at all in HA was because of her terrible Master standing around like the useless idiot that he is.

>>161046598
Archer>Rider and Saber>Lancer, but besides that, yeah.
Man, poor Medea. Pretty famous figure and still gets shafted and doesn't accomplsh anything any route

>>161046697
Hey, she did pretty well for a while in UBW.

>>161043574
>Hilariously, a nuclear bomb is weaker than any of the sword he traces
Either you are retarded or Nasu is retarded or both.

>>161046616
In EXTRA him and the two girls could each fight and defeat (an admittedly nerfed) Arcueid in the actual main story. Not a bonus fight or anything. So EXTRAverse Nameless is pretty strong.

Beat SHIKI too

>>161046735
No, in Nasu's canon rewrite of Extra, Archer is the only one of the three player servants who loses his war.

>>161046616
In fact this is his problem. Emiya enjoys too much play the irregular Saber instead of doing the damn Archer.

>>161046777
Nero defeats Tamamo in Round 4 of Extella/Zero. Then defeats Archer in Round 7. Red Saber is the only one in that story that doesn't walk away with any kind of L.

>>161046719
Only because nobody really tried to fight her
The first real fight she had, Archer completely destroyed her after a teenage girl went toe to toe with her.
Kidnapping Saber was an ambush, and one that worked, but still an ambush; if Saber had been able to fight properly, she would've won, like she was about to in Fate if Gil hadn't showed up.
And when Archer showed up to "rescue" Shirou, it was the same way; he wasn't giving it his all since he was focused on deciding what to do about Shirou.

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>>161045894
The dawning of frenetic turmoil where the humans who had, until then, venerated and feared nature, began, as humans, to do what they wished. The commencement of manic delirium.
In such an age, he was born as king. The blood of the gods who had ruled thus far, and the blood of the humans who would rule from hereon.
As a completely different life form, embodying the two. As the ultimate neutral party, discerning their respective failings, adjudicating from their respective positions.
To observe was to determine. He determined to discern the lives of humans by the king’s measure. That is the the crux of his being.

...

>"The fulfillment in life, the joy of living that I’d attained for the first time, vanishes in the blink of an eye, like so. This was the world of humanity. This was what I must observe. What would I understand of this unique appeal in an undying body?
...
>"The sky I beheld stretched far and wide. It was such that, even with my eyes, it would take many moons to foresee it all.
>"By that time, my body will have long since rotted. And yet the world of humanity will continue to expand. One day, humanity shall discern in advance even light that lies millions of years ahead.
>"...Such was the future I saw. And it was an exhilarating sight. Thinking back, I must have lost my drive.
>"I had collected all that should be collected. There was no further joy to be had in that era.
>"Then it is a simple matter of departing with integrity. I’ll experience death as many times as necessary.
>"Time and again I shall revive. Time and again I shall observe. Until the end of this world.
>"Until the day comes when humanity reaches beyond my garden, setting sail for the dark sea―――until the day comes when humanity reaches the end of the sky and strikes its final note.”

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>>161046691
Archer has a higher chance of beating servants if he uses a strategy like in hollow ataraxia. Hrunting is the best arrow an archer could have.

So what's the deal with 5 Gandr at once being stronger than Excalibur at normal, invisible-air-covered usage? Is Gandr really that good that Rin can take one of Heracles' lives when Saber can't even scratch him without an NP?

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>>161046934
>tfw Hollow Ataraxia voice patch is still a month and a half away

>>161046875
Fuck, Neutral Gil is sick. I'm not sure it's even possible for Gil to be "good", though, I literally can't imagine it working with his character in any way.

>>161046934
It's his best strategy, but that doesn't mean it's enough.

>>161043389
A shield is just a wider sword

>>161046728
Magic > Science

>>161047282
A sword is just a slim shield.

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>>161047282
That's not how it works you little shit

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>>161043389
If a big chunk of rock is considered a sword, I can't see why a shield isn't

>>161047333
A sword is just a flat hammer with a sharpish end that you can stab people with.
It's also handy as a shield.

>>161046618
It never should have gotten to the point where they pulled off an NP struggle in the first place, except for the fact everything in that fight was Emiya manipulating Cu to attack how he wanted. That's what I meant by playing Cu like a fiddle. Emiya turned what should have been a hopeless fight to "Well I'm completely fucked up, but at least I'm not dead and he's also out of mana".

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>>161043297
>all these secondaries that haven't read Hollow Ataraxia
>in which he traces a fucking fishing rod

I don't even know the limitations of his tracing abilities anymore familia

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>>161047001
>tfw you didn't read it when the first translation was finished so that you could hear it with the glorious voice patch the first time

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>>161047453
The thought of his skin pretty much melting off and he still rampaging like nothing is happening made every encounter with berserker scary as fuck.

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>>161047544
CARBON FIBER FISHING ROD WITH ELECTRICAL PULLING ENGINE.

>>161047584
>CP
>Berser-car
I started clapping the first time I saw it.

>>161046815
This. To be honest, he's fairly scary if he uses his true talent as an archer and merely supplemented with his hand to hand sword fighting ability.

Can you imagine being a servant then hearing the "I am the bone of my sword" thing happening then opening your eyes a moment later only to find yourself on the hill of swords?

The next thing you know you'll hear what sounds like a nuke then seeing only the glint of his infinite swordarrows raining down on you before you die?

>>161047675
>When you realize if they ever make another Carnival Phantasm, it'll neglect KnK, Tsukihime and Melty entirely to focus on F/SN, Extra, Prisma Illya, Apocrypha and GO.

>>161047584
>Japanese English puns

>>161047722
UBW takes too long and doesn't help all that much.

And Gil could just summon the worlds entire nuclear arsenal at once with Gate of Babylon. He doesn't do that either. I wish he just summoned a nuke to spite kill Shirou during UBW

>>161047810
UBW is the only reason Shirou was able to chop off Gil's arm

>>161047888
UBW is only good against Gil, and even then only under the condition that he doesn't use Ea.

>>161047881
I don't tend to like people who say things like "lol it's so obvious that you haven't read the VN", but it is incredibly obvious that you don't know what you're talking about.

>>161047743
They won't neglect Tsukihime because of the remake that will come out soon ;_; I-I'm sure it'll be out before I die.

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>>161047544
> not reading subpar fandisc is now a sympton of secondariness

actually read HA and I still think you should fuck off

>>161047881
pretty fucking sure nukes did not exist during Gil's time familia

>>161043904

fuck

>>161048045
It is though, anon-kun.
>introduces bazett
>introduces luvia
>introduces caren
>explains a ton of servant backstories
>get to see what the characters are like when not under extreme pressure

Also
>subpar
HA was fantastic

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>>161047938
kinda retarded desu

even with UBW's high mana demand, it's still Gate of Babylon Lite

unless his opponent is a knight class Servant like Saber, who can dodge every shit he throws at her or someone with hax like Heracles, I don't see why it shouldn't be OP

((ye, I know Nasu stated sword spam is only "bothersome" to Servants, but it is still retarded))

>>161048075
Isn't it mentioned somewhere that ancient humans in this universe are at level of tech roughly around the same as us currently?

>>161047938
I think it's pretty obvious that the infinite sword spam it provides its good against a lot of people considering how much ass Gil rape on his own.

>>161048045
HA is even better than S/N, you get an H scene with Rider.

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>>161046616
>4000 meters
Nice range, buddy.

>Summon Oppenheimer
>Archer class
>his NP is an atomic bomb

>>161048150
>introduces bazett
>introduces caren
>explains a ton of servant backstories

valid points

>introduces luvia

drills was shit until Kaleid

>get to see what the characters are like when not under extreme pressure

HA had some gems. Like the one scene, where Medusa and Caster start arguing, Saber pipes in to lecture them about how they need to be more mature, only for them to unite against her and roast her for being a NEET
but there are still dozens and dozens of boring scenes like eating potato with Saber, the girls masturbating to Kojiro's hair or any scene with Issei in general

>>161048196
>I know Nasu stated sword spam is only "bothersome" to Servants

Only because Sword spammers don't get creative and always rain down the swords from directly above their own head. If they spammed them from behind the opposing servant, or directly above them, or better yet, directly beneath their feet, then they'd probably catch a lot more servants.

Why send out swords from one direction when you can make the opponent play "the floor is SWORD"

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>>161048361
SAY IT TO MY FACE AND NOT ONLINE, SANDNIGGER!

>>161047282
A nuke is just a round sword that blows up

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>>161048603
>Emiya
>calling others nigger

How do pairings work in HA? Do you just boost affection points and get h-scenes with a girl? Just wondering cause I'm on cool down from reading the Fate VNs after F/SN

>>161048679
non-Alter EMIYA is pure who knows better than to stick his sword in crazy religious zealots' sheaths

no, Caren doesn't count, since that was Avenger's doing

>>161048679
gay priest is here now

>>161046263
Theoretically he could cheese Lancer by telling Rin to fly in an Ulsterborn dude, trace and give him Caladbolg and then tell him to beat up Lancer.

>>161048679
The one true Emiya, he is a true Hero of Justice. You have root out all of the evil in order to have the greater good to happen.

>>161048757
idek man just do all the possible events and theyll unlock somehow.

Don't even know how I triggered some of them but they unlocked. Remember to pass all of taiga's quizzes.

>>161047330

All the mages spend their time pointing out how fucking weak magic is compared to some of the strengths of more modern humans. Even getting to the point where you can light a fire with magic is immensely more difficult than doing it the old fashioned way, or with a lighter.

Mages do much of what they do out of tradition, or as a labor of love. Or because they are crazy, insane, or whatever. Shirou did it partly because of a connection with his adoptive father, and wanting to be a mage like him. Only supremely powerful mages can do anything that is impressive at all in the Nasuverse, and they are definitely few and far between. That's nice that Rin is able to shoot magic missiles or whatever, but a dude with a gun would easily kill her outside of plot armor, and nobody ever tries to pretend otherwise.

Kiritsugu fucked shit up exactly because he wasn't afraid to supplement his magic skills with and use more modern weaponry, tactics, and skills to his advantage. Other than the innate resistances of a servant to more physical weaponry (due to their spiritual nature) a master or servant who is geared towards attacking masters directly, and who doesn't engage in silly run arounds or have some ulterior motive, would absolutely dominate the field in a grail war.

Now, when you start talking interdimensional fuckery like Zelretch or really bizarre conceptual shit, sure, the balance changes.

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>>161048196
>I know Nasu stated sword spam is only "bothersome" to Servants, but it is still retarded

I still dont get this, even against someone who had the best defense against swordspamming he nearly dominated the fight from what we're told.

>>161045096

Even with low parameters his abilities are absurdly useful.

If Kiritsugu had drawn Emiya as an Archer and they managed to get along, nobody else would have stood a chance other than Gilgamesh, and even then killing Tokiomi or Kirei would have been a joke for them.

>>161048951
That would be hilarious.

>>161049294
They're both one-step-from-suicidal depressed former hero wannabes so they'd be swell partners.

>>161049294
His abilities are not useful. He's a one trick pony, and that one trick is countering Gilgamesh.

>>161049294
>Gilgamesh (Archer) being there if Kiritsugu summoned Archer (EMIYA)
Nigger what the fuck are you talking about?

>>161045096
>Saber was struggling against Herc's attacks and kapoeira speed/agility
>Archer kills Herc 6 times in close combat while being still wounded
>Archer's arm on Shiro has a sword technique that let's a human beat Saber Alter in a sword fight
Nasu tries his best to downplay Archer's strength, but he's fucking ridiculously strong in melee combat as Archer.

>>161049188
Technology does not equal strength.

>>161049384
>Decent close range fighter
>Sniper with various types of arrows
>Can trace items with powerful effects like Rule Breaker and Rho

He's not the highest level servant ever but he has his strengths

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>>161048378
>eating potato with Saber
Fuck that scene was great

>>161049491
>Saber was struggling against Herc's attacks and kapoeira speed/agility
Whereas Archer fucking died.
>Archer kills Herc 6 times in close combat while being still wounded
And Saber killed Herc 7 times in one attack while having a shit Master.
>Archer's arm on Shiro has a sword technique that let's a human beat Saber Alter in a sword fight.
Archer and Shirou have perfect compatibility, Saber Alter couldn't fight properly in the cave, and still Shirou effectively loses most of the time.

>>161049538
>Decent close range fighter
By Hassan standards, maybe.
>Sniper with various types of arrows
Not helpful in an urban environment, many Servants have counters to those types of tactics, such as being quick enough to just move away and close the distance. The only reason Saber was cornered by this strategy in HA was because of Shirou's presence.
>Can trace items with powerful effects like Rule Breaker and Rho
It lets him stay alive in some situations, but not competitive.

>>161049770
Reminder that Gawain cant cook

>>161049491
Stop it Archerfag
>Saber was struggling against Herc's attacks and kapoeira speed/agility
Wounded by gay bulge and even then could put a fight on cemetery
>Archer kills Herc 6 times in close combat while being still wounded
No he was already fully healed at that time
>Archer's arm on Shiro has a sword technique that let's a human beat Saber Alter in a sword fight
He won with one special technique which only work because Saber was staying in one place and her insitncs were nerfed

>>161049830
Omly killed Herc 7 times BECAUSE of shit Master.

She wouldve probably died with Rin as Master, as no Caliburn
>inb4 Excalibur wouldve killed him in one blow

>>161049390
>Summons Saber (EMIYA)
>Spends most of the war nuking Masters from afar
>Lancer: All I wanted was an honorable duel. Saber and you can't even give that to me! have you all have no shame?! *insert Diarmund rant about cursing the grail and his fury*


That'd be hilarious also I want to see EMIYA vs Berserker, Rider or Assassin

>>161049294
>forgetting Lancelot

>>161049923
What? If she didn't have shit master she wouldn't have mana problem and without mana problem Saber stomps

>>161049830
>By Hassan standards, maybe.
He's gone up against multiple people whose whole shtick is melee and he was able to bring the fight to a standstill.

>Not helpful in an urban environment
That's where it's the most useful it gives him the best vantage points possible. He also has an insanely long range and unless you also have something to close the gap or fire back he's got the advantage.

>>161049188
As far as strength goes, things only really get impressive when you get to True Magic or at least Age of Myth magecraft.

>>161050000
I wonder what the sword autist would be like if he was summoned as a saber.

>>161049770
>the battle of Camlann could've ended better if only her knights had had a delicious potato
Also something about the line "What is it that she sees on the other side of the potato?" kills me

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>>161046616
>>161048361
Step aside.

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>>161047282
really ticks the cerebral cortex

EMIYA's bow is comparable to shit that can nuke the planet.

If that doesn't work then regular nukes sure as hell aren't doing shit.

>>161050231
That's a fucking retarded design

>>161043389
Anon, anything is a sword if you try hard enough, even a gun. Look at EMIYA Alter.

>>161050231
>20km arrows
>Has to consume a truckload of mana crystal to fight for ONE day
>His master killed 29,000+ people to power him for a month

>>161050069
>He's gone up against multiple people whose whole shtick is melee and he was able to bring the fight to a standstill.
No, every single time he lost and lucked out of dying for one reason or another. Which fucking fight did he bring to a "standstill?"
>That's where it's the most useful it gives him the best vantage points possible.
No, it just puts a whole bunch of obstacles in his line of sight. Why do you think he sniped Saber and Shirou while they were out on a bridge instead of literally any other part of town?

>>161049867
>already recovered
Pretty sure he was still wounded by the Saber slash in the beginning
>stood still and her instinct were nerfed
Still doesn't change the fact that his arm on a human was strong enough to beat a saber class servant in close combat. Also the whole technique was based on forcing the enemy into a situation where they couldn't block.

He could probably win the grail war if he wasn't focused on his autistic plan to kill Shiro, since he already experienced it.

>>161050144
Tokiomi would die of stress because he can't figure out the identity of Heroic spirit who's using 3 different weapons from separate timelines and countries and neither a Greek or Irish descent. Also a Saber using bows and firing broken phantasms would drive him insane.

Archer's next move is either kill Kerry so that that timeline Shirou would die in the fire or Kill Kirei so that the fire wouldn't happen.

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>>161050231
>20 km demonstrated range
Add a digit to the end of that and he'd be able to pull off about two thirds the range of what Arash has been said to do with no problem.

>>161050144
Batman. Except, bullshit broken?

>>161050552
Fuck that I'm summoning Scrooge McDuck as Berserker.

>>161050467
No. He was fully healed
>https://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%2069/
>"As you can see, I am merely checking my condition.
>The wound Saber gave me has healed. I cannot stay on watch forever."
>…I see. He's healed now. Then that means Tohsaka should return to the war.

>>161049770
I find it funny that the English were so bad at cooking, they couldn't even get baked potatoes right.

Archer is only good for sniping
>Although his existence has been established as a knight of the bow, in his lifetime he was a magus, not a bowman. A counterfeiter (Faker) who makes use of projection magecraft to counterfeit many famous swords, magic swords. It is believed that the reason why his standard armament was a bow is because he is not all that strong as a Heroic Spirit and, in the end, his combat style settled down for sniping.

>>161050350
You know what I'll admit standstill was the wrong thing to say, but being able to face Lancer and Berserk in melee and not be blown out is worth saying he's decent.

>No, it just puts a whole bunch of obstacles in his line of sight
On this one tho I still say he's got the advantage, yeah he doesn't have 100% visibility but the advantage is being able to attack from a relatively safe position.

>>161050607
Hey now, that was Gawain, and I'm pretty sure he's from Orkney.

>>161050544
Literally who?

>>161050144
>Deermut makes his presence known and challenges servants
>Saber fires Caladbolg II and nukes the warehouse
>Muh Honor

Just kidding, he'd prolly pull out Kansho and Byakuya to fight in close range

>>161043297
Youre thinking too smart for fate, all redman has to do is trace NP and use the last resort explosion over and over, a technique he is explicitly said to be able to use with basically no drawback.

>>161050814
Aside from the large mana consumption.

>>161050682
But he did get blown out, by Lancer especially. He would have died right there and then if not for Shirou.

>>161050756
Arash. Persian bowman. At one point in Fate he ties an arrow to a rope and ties the rope to a wooden beam he was standing on, and then he shoots the arrow and the wooden beam is pulled along with it. And by doing so he fast-traveled an approximate distance of 300 kilometers.

>>161050797
>Saber (EMIYA) is an EMIYA shortly after becoming a counter guardian so he still has his ideals and will act with honour
I want this.

>>161050231
Tell me about Alcides
Why does he wear the towel?

>>161050970
Sometimes I wish Fate was less fundamentally retarded.

>>161050970
Sounds like some Tao Pai Pai bullshit.

>>161050915
What is blown out to you? Archer was able to fight Lancer on some sort of equal footing. I'm not saying he could beat him but he didn't get stomped out when they were fighting.

>>161051116
Karna can fire arrows whose blow moved Hanuman and Shiva's chariot (their combined weight is equal to that of the whole universe) by 2 steps whenever it hit.

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>>161048196
>>161049275
Swordspamming would be cooler if it was actually controlled like in DMC

He'd have to trace every individual component of a nuke, swords are easy for him not only because of his affinity but because they have very little components.

>>161051116
It's fun factor is directly proportional to its retardation factor. Think about it; female King Arthur, your future self trying to kill you, wormsluts and pleasing old men for money

OH HO HO HO

>>161051116
They handwave it with something like, "Servants are magical and we're in a pocket dimension where physical laws don't strictly apply the same as the real world, so basically shit just works."

>>161051454
female King Arthur getting plugged by a japanese ginger to make her more magical**

>>161051373
How did dis nigga get killed in Apo again?

>>161051306
During their first fight, Lancer was nerfed by Kotomine CS and still put archer on defence. The only reason Archer wasn't steamrolled in their second fight was experience he had from previous fight.

>>161051606
Sieg got wanked super hard because of OH MY MANA ABSORBING POWERS I DEVELOPED JUST NOW and Achilles had a shield that blocked Karna's NP.

>>161051116
I never wish that

>>161048679
Anon, there are an infinite number of EMIYA, some of them didn't become heroes, some of them put their dick in crazy some put it in worms, but most of them became pure heroes that didn't get tainted by niggerness.
EMIYA has the right more than anyone to call niggers what they are, as long as he doesn't become NiggAMIYA.

>>161051108
To remind you he's not canon

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I need to catch up on Strange Fake.

>>161052068
you are retard for liking retard stuff

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>>161052272
Really need to.

>>161052272
Who is this spunk monk?

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>>161052552
Gilles' buttbuddy. A very, very old man.

>>161052552
Pralati's Giles's boyfriend who has a new body, he summons a past version of himself as a Servant

>>161052679
The bullshit is real.

>>161051408
Why doesn't he trace guns and canons?

>>161051454
Saber when she's not under shirou and wormslut are actually the weakest parts of the series.
It's kind of a thing.

Nasu should have, instead of wasting everyone's time with his /d/ inspired camelot fap fiction, should have gone full shounen/seinine with a EMIYA Saber class Counter Guardian that has to kill all of the servants and stop a Grail war that has gone completely off the rails and threatens the world.

>>161053030
No, he shouldn't have.

>>161052919
Because Unlimited Blade Works only automatically records swords. Things other than swords take a little more work. Defensive armaments can also be recorded, but require three times more mana than swords.

>>161053030
You need to be over 18 to post here

Shirou's Gradation Air isn't really Gradation Air. Well, I mean, it sometimes is, but it usually isn't.

When Shirou recreates a sword, what he's actually doing is retrieving a weapon recorded into his Reality Marble, Unlimited Blade Works, and projecting it onto reality. Unlimited Blade Works automatically scans and records any weapon Shirou sees instantly, but it's limited to melee weapons due to his Origin and Alignment being "Sword". Defensive armaments such as Rho Aias can also be stored, but it takes three times more energy to recreate them. Nothing else is stored in there.

The reason Shirou's specialties are Gradation Air, Structural Grasp and Reinforcement is because these spells all emulate different aspects of his Reality Marble. Structural Grasp is derived from his ability to instantly analyze any melee weapon. Gradation Air is derived from his ability to recreate weapons stored in Unlimited Blade Works. Ordinarily, Gradation Air is derived from Reinforcement, but Shirou's application is backwards. He is able to use Reinforcement because it's linked to Gradation Air which is linked to Unlimited Blade Works. Due to his roundabout method of dealing with it, that explains why he's so much shittier at Reinforcement than Gradation Air.

While Shirou can instantly analyze and record any melee weapons and, to a lesser extent, defensive armaments, he can't do the same for everything else. Anything other than melee weapons and defensive armaments aren't stored within his Reality Marble, hence why his Gradation Air was lacking at first; he can't instantly recreate things based solely on stored visual information for anything other than those two things. That's why they're "empty". When Shirou recreates something other than a sword or a shield, he's basically doing so from memory. Since his body isn't optimized for that, this results in greater energy consumption and lesser rank. Simply recreating the shape is easy, but the innards are difficult for him.

So why did Nasu seemingly abandon the "conventional" Fate universe for Extra?

He was one and done with Stay Night for the most part. He only wrote segments of Ataraxia didn't he?

Yet he's the sole writing credit for Extra, considered CCC to be his magnum opus for FATE as a whole, came back to write the main scenario for Extella (though he did have help with that one) planned to make a Light Novel for Extella/Zero and is seemingly back for Extella 2.

What made him decide to devote almost all his attention to a spin off series and abandon all his classic characters and world to nothing but small cameos and fan service?

>>161053721
The fans in Japan

>>161053721
Because he's done with that story. It's over.

>>161043297
I'm pretty sure a nuke is way too complex for his niggerlet brain.

>>161050231
how can he see with the towel covering his face

I'm getting so paranoid, every time I see a long post my first instinct is to assume it's been copy-pasted from an old post

>>161053721
Except he still writes for Grand Order. Camelot, Babylon, and Solomon were written by him. They heavily feature his classic characters and develop them further than we have seen (Artoria, Gilgamesh, even minor characters like Cursed Arm Hassan)

>>161050586
I dont remember but why did Archer decide to save Shirou in the fate route instead of pretending to ally with Illya like he did with Caster in UBW?

>>161053821
But he was "done" with Extra after the first game/ Then he was done with not only Extra, but Fate as a whole after CCC, but he still came back for Extella and its sequels/tie ins.

It's just strange that he can be "done" with the Stay Night universe and stick to it, yet despite being done with the Extraverse and Fate as a whole, he keeps revisiting it with new ideas and concepts. Maybe it's just easier to handwave certain things since it's all happening in a digital world. It'd explain GO's technological approach with Chaldeas.

>>161054136
What's so strange about it to begin with? Nasu can do whatever he wants now, including absolutely nothing.

>>161054136
Stay Night is a contained story. People who want a 'sequel' or some shit bringing back Rin and Sakura are retarded.

>>161054136
Because EXTRA is easier to work with than the original. There's a degree of finality with Fate/stay night. The Greater Grail has been destroyed, everything is subsequently dismantled, all the characters move on with their lives. That's it. That's the end. What do you want him to do, write more alternate Fifth Wars?

>>161053721
>abandon all his classic characters and world
What are you even talking about? The setting of Extra is heavily informed by previous entries in the franchise. Many of the concepts of the setting are just old ideas he tweaked or expanded on. There are tons of cameos from other works he's credited for. It has very strong roots with what he was writing before, and it's been interwoven with what he's been writing since.

>>161046427
>Literally dead the moment Caster's gone since her buffs are the only thing stopping Emiya from nuking him.
Nigga what? Assassin almost killed full power Saber.

>>161054413
IIRC, there was zero mention of assassin being buffed by caster when fighting against saber. Or maybe the whole buff thing was an asspull to explain how he managed to fend off berserker.

>>161046427
Medusa could easily beat Archer since he has shit magic resistance

Cu would easily beat Archer since he literally did in UBW. He was not out of mana like you said in the other post; in fact it was more than opposite, since Emiya had a broken arm and was completely fucked if Cu didn't let him live.

Your comments about Herk and Gil are retarded. They'd both blow him the fuck out.
>b-but it'd be different
We have little reason to think Archer would have any better shot against Herk in a different scenario (especially since we have no idea how the fight even went down in the first place), and Gilgamesh isn't going to underestimate a fellow Servant as easily as he did a teenage boy.

Would EMIYA still want to kill apocrypha Shirou since its a different timeline?

Unlimited Blade Works is not absolute. Against most Servants, it's only a minor nuisance at best.

People tend to overestimate swordspam. Even when Gilgamesh uses it, it's really just an opener. Most Servants have some means of dealing with it. Only two Servants have ever fallen to direct swordspam: Caster (Medea), who had her back turned both times when it happened, and Berserker (Herakles) who had to be chained up by Enkidu in order to actually die.

Broken Phantasm is a trump card for a reason. Archer can't just spam it since it takes up significant energy consumption. He can only fire off maybe two shots before he's completely drained.

>>161054810
shirou in apocverse probably never even became an emiya

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>Lost againts Berserk even when using UBW

>>161054855
but he could still get summoned there since the throne operates across parallel worlds

>>161049188
The moment where Kerry destroys the building full of magic traps with fucking bombs is one of my favourite moments of Zero.

>>161053113
>Things other than swords take a little more work. Defensive armaments can also be recorded, but require three times more mana than swords.

It being tougher to do and taking more mana?
Fucking and?

He's a fucking counter guardian who has basically forever to figure that shit out.

Him preferring to use swords because it's easier and more chunni is fucking stupid.
Saber should use not just swords but any other weapon he has come across.
He should at least canonically find using other weapons distasteful, not do it for chuuni bullshit.
Him not having special guns, canons, and mana grenades at the ready in case he needs them is utter bullshit.

>>161054916
that's not the point. archer wouldn't care about killing shirou if shirou didn't have his hero of justice mindset

>>161055028
No he can't. Being a Guardian doesn't mean he has the luxury to walk into a nuclear storage facility and analyze nukes all days. He doesn't have the convenience of just scanning whatever weapons he finds until he has everything he needs. As a Guardian, he's basically a mindless puppet who kills whatever the planet needs him to kill. He has no free will when he's out and about. And when he's not acting as a janitor, he's basically in the Throne, reading about what he's been doing because, being outside of time, his experiences come to him in completely random order.

As stated, the ONLY things that are instantly recorded in UBW are melee weapons and shields. Anything else and it becomes way more tricky. And simply looking at the schematics of something isn't enough either.

>>161054875
>took 7 lives off of Berserker
>something Shirou and Saber were able to do with a single blow
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

unironically I do get that Caliburn wouldn't have worked nearly as well in Archer's hands as in Sabers

>>161054837
I would be able to accept arguments like this if it wasn't for Shirou doing shit like tracing Nine Lives and killing Berserker as a regular human with just one servant arm.

I just think if EMIYA combined all the shit he could do into making a serious attempt to win the war with Rin as his master he could floor most of the other servants.

He'd only really be fucked against Cu, or Saber if she managed to pull a competent master.

>>161055213
Do we have any images or description of what it's like being in the Throne? At least from some Strange Fake lines from Caster it's obviously at least sort of a physical location, and you can see physical bodies/communicate with other Spirits

>>161055235
>unironically I do get that Caliburn wouldn't have worked nearly as well in Archer's hands as in Sabers

I think he also wouldn't be able to trace it anymore since he would have lost Avalon quite a while ago at that point. I seem to remember that being part of the justification for him being able to trace Caliburn.

>>161055347
not only was blackened berserker weaker than regular berserker, blackened beserker literally let himself get killed

I'm still booty blasted Cu never really has a chance to go all out in any route. Had Kirei not pulled him back at the exact moment he did in the shared opening, he could've killed Saber, probably.

>>161055426
It was, but I thought that after he traced it once he could trace things forever, but I might be crazy. He also very well might have never traced Avalon in general.

>>161055384
No. We really only have Archer's words. Basically, the Heroic Spirits sit there and receive information and memories randomly. That's all we know for sure.

>>161055347
Berserker blind, corrupted and lost God Hand. What Shirou did was just stand still and target nine body parts. It's not really a strategy and was the equivalent of shooting a gigantic target charging straight at you from a mile away. Even then, he fucked up; the ninth hit was too slow. Shirou would have been paste had Illya not distracted Berserker long enough to allow him to strike the final blow.

All of Shirou's victories against Servants were due to a combination of luck and having just the right factors allowing him a chance at victory.

>>161054573
He couldn't have been, Caster was already dead in UBW by the time he fought Saber.

The reason Saber had a hard time against Assassin was because, frankly, Assassin was the superior swordsman. It's not an issue of power, speed, endurance or mana. In terms of pure technique, Sasaki Kojirou(?) is one of the greatest swordsmen in all of Fate.

>>161055512
What would happen if Cu fought Gilgamesh anyway? Would Enkidu be able to hold him? I feel like he would just instantly kill Gilgamesh with Gay Bulge. Then again Gil probably has some dumb bullshit to protect against it.

>>161055804
Gilgamesh defeated Cu Chulainn in their one fight in the Fate route. It happens off-screen.

However, Cu Chulainn still managed to hold Gil off for a whole day, so that's definitely something.

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So if the Nuke is a rocket, and is named Javeline or something, it might be able to trace it. Its close enough, bonuspoint if the blast is shaped.
But not the fucking shelter. Unless he makes it out of lead swords/blades/knifes and somehow also makes it airtight.

>>161044540
Tsar Bomba isn't your average nuke anon.
Nor is endurance E-A++ average stats.
Nukes biggest problems, is that most D or higher Enduring Servants, will be able to survive the flash of most weaker nukes.
That said, i agree on going for the Servants.

>>161045096
On paper he is a weak servant.
Then again
>Copy stats of gear he traces
>Decent arsenal of swords to trace from
>His Reality Marble allows him to instantly identify any heroes that isn't shrouded
>The Average Servant is barely stronger than Archers default stats
His only weakness is that he is in a war where he stupidly outclassed, by jobbers(Cu, Medusa, Herc).

>>161046691
>attacking Cu or any servant as an archer
>not sniping everyone's masters with broken phantasms
do you even HGW

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>>161056102
Yeah, because that worked so well in HA.

>>161056064
He doesn't copy stats. Shirou's "skill copying" is basically just him letting the sword do its own thing while his body comes along for the ride. It's why his body was almost tearing itself apart trying to keep up with Saber's techniques with Caliburn. It's not a wholly reliable ability, and against any normal, sane Servant, it wouldn't be that useful an ability. When Shirou used Nine Lives Blade Works, the axe sword was simply flying around with the same velocity as Herakles' swings with Shirou's body being pulled along.

There's a reason why Archer doesn't rely on this ability. A half-assed copy of another hero's moves isn't going to be worth much against the likes of Cu Chulainn or King Arthur. The reason it's effective against Gilgamesh is because Gilgamesh himself isn't much of a specialist either.

>>161043297
>holly war

>>161056324
>A half-assed copy of another hero's moves isn't going to be worth much
If it gives him:
1. Stat advantage
2. Type advantage from enemy weakness
3. Possible weapon counter advantages & technique
Then yes, its worth a lot.
Even if its far more shit than doing the same, but just sniping the enemy.

>>161056219
Wasn't that a one-in-a-million chance coincidence only brought into existence from having died to Archer so many times like that already?

>>161056425
Stat advantage isn't worth jack. Like I said, it's not that convenient an ability. At best, it only lets him mimic a Servant's arm strength for a single instant. Saber and Lancer could have dealt with that sort of thing easily. Most Servants are simply far too skilled to be caught with their pants down against that kind of ability.

That's why Archer doesn't use it. His own archery is purely his own talent. Remember: Shirou is a really talented archer himself, and the only time he ever missed a target was when he was deliberately trying to miss.

Archer is explicitly inferior to most known Servants in terms of stats and melee skill. It's why he sticks to sniping in most serious confrontations, unless he has some sort of ulterior motive. He can't keep up with Lancer's blistering speed and he can't compare to Saber's superior technique and power. When he went up against Assassin, he came home pretty beaten up.

>>161056708
>Stat advantage isn't worth jack
Its why he has to Spar with Cu, instead of actually fighting him. Or why fighting Herc is painful for all Servants in the war.
Or why Arthuria is medium tier, instead of shit tier, since she doesn't have relics or NPs to back up her name

The argument that needs to be brought to the table isn't even "but copy is shit!", but more like
>There is tons of things that isn't swords, so Garchar doesn't have a good collection to fall back on

what are the limits of the redman's ability anyway?
can he make something that amounts to a pool full of water appear?
at what speed does it show up?
can an object be over 10 meters?

>>161056866
Read the thread. It has been said multiple times already.

>>161056806
The only "stat advantage" copying gives Archer is temporary arm strength. That's really it. It doesn't make his legs faster, it doesn't give him higher endurance. It lets him, for an instant, copy the skill of a weapon's user.

>>161056963
Read the VN ya fag. He gets the stats, if he wants the technique.
He also get stat degradation on a sliding scale from "swordy sword" to "absolutely not a sword"

>>161057075
I did read the VN. Shirou's skill copy is basically the sword moving on its own while his body comes along for the ride. It's basically the weapon forcing the user's body to move in ways beyond what he's normally capable of.

>>161057150
What part of that did you not understand then?
Str, Agi and End is vital to do that.
Agi even more so than Str.

>>161045808
>Redman
>worthy

Gil himself just called EMIYA a worthless faker

> Implying stats matter
All servants are glass cannons. The difficulty is in landing a blow without getting BTFO.

So why is UBW so weak against other servants?
Isn't it basically gate of babylon?

Gil's sword spam seemed quite effective against a lot of servants.

>>161057445
>Isn't it basically gate of babylon?
Its omnidirection GoB, where several copies of one weapon can be launched, if it covers some critical weakness.
Its actually broken if Garcher gets type advantage. Even more so when Anti World is stupidly rare.

>>161057507
So, why didn't Archer use UBW against Berserker?

>>161056064
What is this 60 fps crap? Was there really somebody stupid enough to think that looks better?

>>161057537
1. Brain damage
2. Bragging rights
3. Still damaged, because he can't be arsed to get Rin to fix his broken limbs

>>161057445
Unlike GoB, it takes too long to set up, drains a shitton of mana, and then, even GoB can be worked around, so it's quite pointless.

>>161046344
Having Divinity is not a very good counter to Gil. At all.

>>161056806
The big thing really is "he'd be much better off with more than just swords". He's not bad, in any way, but he's definitely weaker than Lancer, Berserker, or Saber. Gae Bolg would've destroyed him the second Cu let it fly if Shirou hadn't interrupted. Of course, I'm totally unsure that Saber being able to put him out of commission for a week means anything about how fast she could take him out in a real fight, but still.

>>161055936
If not for Gil and Kirei's fuckery Bazett and Lancer would have easily won the HGW. Removing Kirei from the occasion the only enemy that would give them a problem would be Caster and Kuzuki and even then they probably win anyway.
Cu or Bazett could just kill the master for basically any other Servant if needed

>>161057217
Because it's only arm strength. What, you want Archer to stand around like a pissant, flailing an axe-sword around? Most Servants of the Fifth War would grind him into dust.

The inconvenient thing about skill-copy is that, for the most part, it's just the sword doing its own thing. It moves on its own to deal with its respective opponent. Not having full control of your body in combat can be more of a handicap than an advantage.

>>161057445
Because swordspam is not that strong. Most of the Servants of the Fourth and Fifth Wars were capable of dealing with it. When Caster was killed by it, both times it was a surprise attack from behind that she didn't see coming. When Berserker died to it, it was due to a combination of having to protect Illya, as well as being bound by Enkidu.

It's not swordspam that makes Gilgamesh powerful. Any reasonably strong Servant can deal with it. Even Shirou was able to block its assault. Iskander was able to tank it. Saber was regularly able to deal with it as well, aside from an odd instance in Fate/Zero. When Gilgamesh uses swordspam, it means that he doesn't give a fuck about you. You're not worth even his D-game. The true reason it's powerful is because he basically has the weaknesses of every Heroic Spirit lying somewhere in his vault. We never get to see it, but a truly serious Gilgamesh wouldn't bother with something as pointless as swordspam. He would simply gauge his target's weakness, pull out the appropriate tools, and end it in an instant. If it were a game of rock-paper-scissors, Gilgamesh would always have the one that the opposing player loses to.

The combination of Gate of Babylon and Shag Nagba Imuru makes Gilgamesh the deadliest Servant in existence. He simply refuses to use the former to its full potential and seals the latter away because it makes everything boring for him. On top of that, he also has Ea, which has the greatest firepower of any Noble Phantasm.

>>161057834
Cu versus Heracles would be iffy, assuming Gae Bolg's heart piercing would both only take one life at a time, and it would even work against a sevrant with such high luck.

>>161057975
>Forgetting MUH RUNES
k
Go home
Ireland deserves better

>>161057834
I dunno about that. There was an issue of personality clash between them. Cu Chulainn would find such cheap methods distasteful. Bazett would probably need to use a Command Spell in order to get him to cooperate, and there's no way she'd do that.

Bazett even states that their compatibility was, in a way, the worst.

>>161057975
Luck isn't the only factor. The reason Saber was able to avoid a strike to the heart was a combination of Luck and Instinct. Berserker's Instinct is sealed away due to Mad Enhancement.

>>161057998
>implying runes would do anything to Berserker
If you can find me something saying runes are stronger than wind-shielded Excalibur, I will literally eat shit and make a .webm

>>161057950
>it's just the sword doing its own thing

Nine Lives explicitly shows Shirou taking aim before unleashing his attack.

And it also states that he reproduces the strength of his enemy.

So the whole sword doing its own thing is bullshit.

>>161057553
I think thats just the smoothvideo project effect. I don't use it because it runs horrible on notebooks, but recognize it from their demo.

>>161058016
Okay, still. Can Cu manage 12 Gae Bolgs before Herc can get him?

>>161055659
im talking about when saber killed assassin in fate, there was no mention of assassin being buffed by caster.

>>161058192
Assassin died offscreen in Fate

>>161058159
It depends on how many times Gae Bolg can kill Berserker in one strike.

>>161048679
He is a hero for me, he went some deep shit hell unlike the rest of other EMIYAs.

>>161058431
It's his own fault. He completely destroyed his own ideals by killing her ultimately harmless followers. The greatest crime that her followers tended to commit was suicide. Kiara herself aside, those who followed Kiara, or at least the ones that lived, didn't really do anything wrong.

>>161057975
His only chance would be if God Hand isn't able to heal his body from a wound from Gae Bolg. Cu himself says you can't be healed with such a wound but you can't dodge an undodgeable attack either and we know how that turned out.

>>161058260
I don't see why it would be any more than one
Piercing the heart should be a single death, since blowing his head off is a single death. Especially since we establish in the prologue that piercing the heart is something able to be fixed with high level healing magic.

>>161047888
You're an idiot. Even Shirou says that UBW is useless against anyone except Gil, and even then Ea would rape his ass

Why F/Z Gil barely uses GoB and in the 5thHGW he just sword spammed every battle? what changed?

>>161058761
Oh, that's actually pretty interesting. Like a less flashy and much more chess match Gae Bolg v. Rho Aias.

>>161058768
Stabbing him once with Caliburn killed him seven times over.

>>161058890
That's because Caliburn's effect is literally "victory".

>>161058092
Cu's runes are probably stronger than Rin's fucking gems. So, there's that.

>>161058793
But we see Archer stalemate and then beat Caster via sword spam, why would it in UBW be any different? I think UBW could take out most Assassins we've seen, minus maybe both of Strange Fake's any caster Medea level or lower, and have a fair shot against Medusa. It comes down to Bellerephon in that case, but I think Archer stands a chance. It's probably 60/40 for Medusa.

>>161058824
He doesn't fight all that much in the 4th war. He fights Jets twice briefly on the ground and on his space ship. The only other real battle he fights is vs Alexander. He uses GoB there as well. He uses GoB to fling some swords at Gilles, Assassin and Arturia though.

>>161058890
Caliburn is significantly different. Unshielded Excalibur still nearly just bounced off.
>>161058939
We haven't seen a lot of runes, but it would take a lot of planning for that to be true, I think. Rin used what, 5 or 6 of her strongest gems at once to land a single kill? I can't see a hastily-made rune being any more powerful than two, maybe 3, gandr at once.

>>161056219

He was only defeated because
1) Shirou already knew he was sniping
2) Shirou used a command spell.

In most cases before, Shirou was killed instantly. Apply that to most other masters and you solo the war.

>>161059112
Excalibur couldn't unleash its full potential due to Saber being too weak at the time. In the Tiger Dojo related to that scene, Ilya states that if Saber had been at top form, a full power Excalibur could have wiped out Berserker in one shot.

>>161043297
those thread are always interesting to read.

>>161056219
>Shirou needed to use a command spell for Saber to close the gap and still needed to guard one BP with Raw Anus
You're cute for being so retarded Anon

>>161059112
We've seen his Caster-class runes. They're enough to easily blow up Emiya, if he were to be hit by them. Dunno how strong his runes are in Lancer but, if they are in any way comparable, he'd probably be able to kill Heracles at least once with them. Not worth much if they couldn't.

>>161059159
do tiger dojos count as canon
probably
that does make sense though
Fuck though, that just shows how stupid OP Berserker was, since Saber in just as bad shape would've been able to ez demolish Caster had Gil not showed up.
>>161059189
If there's one thing Fate is good at, it's allowing for top tier who would win threads.

>>161055213
He's been summoned as a servant a lot of times by now and has over his long life, as we've seen in canon flashbacks, used and had access to advanced weaponry AND nukes.
There is no fucking excuse for him not to know the basics of creating a damned musket, fucking canon, or grenade.
They're beyond simple. Simpler then a modern fucking casting rod even.

>>161058793
I think Shirou was trash talking Gil with that line just to goad Gil to go even more full retard.

EMIYA should have better chances with other non-specialized servants using UBW. It should fare better against Giles' monster since it should hold lots of anti monster shit, providing he doesn't just caladbolg it to death.

>>161059112
Caster Cu can actually kill Herc easier than Lancer Cu because his Rune NP can turn off God Hand

>>161059515
>Prefers being summoned as a Lancer
>Is weaker
Cu pls

>>161059451
so who summoned him before? was it Rin every time? Did he try to kill Shirou every time?

>>161059598
Uh. The Counter Force?

>>161059451
In order to scan something that isn't a sword, he needs to touch it and perform Structural Analysis thaumaturgy on it. And even then, he can't actually store it in Unlimited Blade Works; he has to memorize it completely, everything about it. He would also need to create a mechanism to launch the nuke as well, since just creating a nuke on its own wouldn't do anything, meaning he'd need to scan and commit that to memory too.

But as a mindless embodiment of the Counter Force, the planet wouldn't allow him to perform any unnecessary actions. Kill what needs to be killed and leave. That's it. When acting as a Guardian, he doesn't have the means or right to think or act for himself. The planet wouldn't give him the freedom to walk up to the nuke, analyze it, and commit every single last detail concerning it to memory.

>>161059597
eh it's situational

>>161059644
i meant about the times he was summoned as a servant, not as a counter guardian

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That reminds me why was Extra Nameless could trace divine construct?

Extella/Zero had him beat fucking Gawain. before being BTFO by Red Saber

>>161056324
Has high stats already
Can almost instantly and near perfectly copy any weapon he wants that's he's even glanced at
Can copy it infinitely with little loss of mana unless it's a bullshit broken weapon
Can break that bitch for an instakill.

On top of his fighting style and experience, he's pretty damned dangerous.

Now imagine if he was summoned as an actual saber instead of an archer. He'd be bullshit h4x.

>>161059725
How so?
All Lancer Cu has is good-ish stats and a pointy stick that jobs almost as much as he does.
Caster Cu has overpowered runes and the bullshit noble phantasm that turns off other NPs
as well as wickerman, which is a wickerman.
He also japed Archer with a wood clone

>>161059800
Moon Cell.

Also, wasn't it stated that he had no way of winning since if Hakuno dies, so does his Master?

>>161059831
Again, that kinda parlor trick is no match against Saber, Cu Chulainn or Herakles. Rider would probably be very tricky as well.

>>161059515
>his Rune NP can turn off God Hand
When was that shown or said? Not questioning the veracity of your statement; just don't remember it at all.

>>161059923
Ochd Deug Odin - Great God Crest
Rank: A
Type: Anti-Fortress
In modern terms, Matrix Wodan. A Noble Phantasm activated by invoking all the 18 original runes conferred by Scathach together with the release of the True Name. The power of the rune obtained by the great god of Northern Europe is temporarily released to bestow large-scale magic damage on the enemy camp. Furthermore, surviving enemies will have all buff effects dispelled, the parameters of their abilities will be forcibly reduced by 1 Rank and, in case they possess constantly active Noble Phantasms, those will halted for 1~2 turns.

>in case they possess constantly active Noble Phantasms, those will halted for 1~2 turns.

>>161059970
Mm, not bad. I wonder how Battle Continuation and/or his '13th life' factor into that, though.

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Canonically the only EMIYA who can solo an entire grail war was Miyu Shirou

I'd say that temporarily disabling Berserker's God Hand wouldn't necessarily guarantee victory, but Berserker was a jobber anyway. Without his sanity, he's not really worth much. I mean, look at all the people who managed to kill him at least once:

>Saber
>Shirou
>Rin
>Archer
>Gilgamesh

Not to mention, Assassin managed to push him back as well.

>>161059911
Seiba, Medusa and doge will whack him if he goes full retard, engages in close range and try to win in melee. BAHSAKAH Herc is questionable since he didn't deployed UBW, but shaved 7 lives in melee combat, now if he deployed UBW and was willing to hurt Illya as well, shit should change drastically.

>>161060218
Shirou and Saber only managed working together, though that's cause Saber was in a shit state. Shirou barely counts, he wouldn't get a kill without Saber there, and Rin only got one through pretty much a suicide attack.
I do think he probably could get one, so it absolutely does come down to whether or not God Hand gets disabled.

>>161060301
Unlimited Blade Works on its own isn't that strong. The real strength of it lies in Archer's Broken Phantasms.

According to Nasu, Archer's true trump card has always been Broken Phantasm. Meaning Fragarach would activate if Archer used Caladbolg, but not if he simply set up his Reality Marble.

>>161060301
>willing to hurt Illya
this will literally never happen unless you command sealed him to. If you command sealed him to kill Illya then he would probably just kill his you out of spite for it and then fuck off to go and kill Shirou

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>>161059868
not to mention that he was half burned-half crumbled due to being summon with a master without a soul. He pretty much went with Extella/Zero without the required mana but powered through it for his master only to lost to Nero

>>161060301
He probably could handle Herc, honestly. I'm no 100% on it, but it could happen feasibly. Doggo is out of the question, as we saw when Cu was pretty much just playing around and managed to work him. Medusa, I'm super not sure. In long range, it's an incredibly easy victory for Archer, and even in melee, it comes down to whether or not he knows about Rule Breaker. He'd need to be an absolute retard to get hit by it if he knew it's specs.

>>161060218
Kojiro managed to push back even Cu, he's by no means bad. He's the master of boring your brains out and making you want to go home.

>>161060543
Couldn't Cu just stand a relatively long distance away and throw Gae Bolg at him

>>161060514
>He probably could handle Herc, honestly. I'm no 100% on it, but it could happen feasibly.
I doubt it. Shooting off twelve A-rank Broken Phantasms in a row is probably impossible for him. Even Cu Chulainn can't fire off Gae Bolg more than 7-9 times before running low on power.

>>161060423
If he used BP against Berserker, shit would had killed Illya and blown up the castle. That's why it's questionable how he killed him 7 times without BP or UBW.

>>161060583
Cu is the type of guy who would insist on fighting in melee instead of killing someone from far off.

>>161060439
He probably would have won outright if he had a proper Master.

Hell, you could argue that he lost to Nero on purpose since winning meant Hakuno dies, and if Hakuno dies, so does femHakuno. At least by losing, Hakuno lives and receives femHakuno's memories.

>>161060583
depends on whether or not he's willing to leave the gate
theoretically you could just carpet bomb the entrance with some of Archer's explosives and you'd probably get him with at least one.

>>161060654
Why are Lancers always so retarded?

>>161060648
Don't be silly. Shooting off Caladbolg didn't kill Shirou or bring down Ryudou Temple. Besides, he has more than just Caladbolg. Not every Broken Phantasm's gonna create massive explosions.

>>161059598
I thought all of the alternate timelines archers were the same one?
Anyway, we've seen him use other weapons.
We've also know that he's a cap america/snake pliskin tier soldier and has probably memorized ever piece of modern and older military ordinance you can imagine.

Him not knowing how to at least magic up an old winchester is stupid.

>>161060687
>Willing to leave the gate
>Implying he has a choice in the matter

>>161043297
if he wanted he can do anything he wants. trace nuclear? fuck that shit, just trace holy grail for everybody and live happily everafter

>>161060648
it effectively comes down to Illya not being around then, which is unlikely but possible. Since I do agree with the other guy that he wouldn't kill Illya, no matter what,

>>161060688
most honourable fighters would have done the same thing because they live for the thrill of the fight.

>>161060729
okay, change that to *able to leave the gate
yeah, that was a fuckup, sorry
poor fucking assassin

>>161059911
He can copy the hard counters to everyone of those people and is able to..as a fucking archer, hold his own in single combat against the people you just mentioned.

If he's ever summoned as a saber(which will never happen because shirou is already the most popular male from the franchise and they don't want to ever make this into a onesided bullshit stomp in popularity)then he'd be invincible.

>>161051373
to be fair that is on his legend

>>161053644
thanks for the formal explanation anon

>>161054136
I think that he works on Extra universe mostly because it let him work with his more eccentrics ideas

see Attila

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*solos grail war*

>>161060583
Caster's barrier reduced the strength of outside attacks.

>>161060737
Grail-kun, please go.

>>161060847
He'll only solo a grail war if imouto's in danger.

>>161054211
I think I would enjoy a 3rd War written by Nasu, but I know it'll never happen

Hell, does Darnic exist in cannon? Is he in the 3rd War in cannon, or is that just Apocryphaverse?

>>161060813
Being summoned as Saber might give him better stats in exchange for losing Independent Action, but wouldn't really change much otherwise.

>>161060813
Anon, having a hard counter against someone isn't going to guarantee victory. Archer could recreate Balmung, but Saber would still kick his ass in a fight.

>>161060928
Ah...I forgot. She's the authors mary sue self insert.

>>161060996
More like she's just more skilled than he is. It's not like a ranked down copy of Siegfried's sword techniques is gonna let him outsword Saber.

>>161060996
lmao what
She's Takeuchi's waifu, for sure, but not exactly a mary sue, let alone a Self insert for Nasu
Nearly ever Saber would still kick his ass.

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>>161060996
>She's the artists mary sue waifu

Fixed that for you.

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>>161057537
Terrain advantage. UBW would just give Berserker a beeline to flatten Archer and his swordspam is 100% incapable of hurting god hand. Fighting in the cramped Einzbern castle is the best thing that could have happened to Archer cause now he can outmaneuver him. It's the same exact logic behind Saber luring him to the graveyard.

>>161060996
>mary sue self insert.

She gets her ass kicked all the time.

It's just that none of them were by EMIYA.

>>161060813
I doubt they'll make Shirou that can be summoned as a Saber since low ass parameters and no legendary sword associated with him, unless they pull off some bullshit.

So we have Emiya and Emiya Alter. Emiya Lily when?

>>161060919
Never say never. Maybe Nasu wants to write a 3rd HGW, and now has the freedom to do so because of the success of Grand Order and the other contemporary crap. Could happen.

Number one thing that I'd want to see out of it, though, is the Einzberns' reaction when they realize just how badly they fucked up in deciding on Manjew.

>>161061103
>low ass parameters
>no legendary sword

Nero?

>in UBW archer uses caladbolg against berserker in the graveyard
>Rin somehow doesnt realise that means archer must have recovered his memories to use his NP and she never bothers to ask him for his true name or anything for the rest of the route

>>161060847
how in the fuck did he manage to beat Cu in that timeline? Heck even Saber and possibly Heracles?

>>161061138
First Mooncell, next she has to pull off some bullshit to become Saber class.

>>161061138
His post did end with "unless they pull off some bullshit", you know.

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>>161061078
Is this a JoJo reference?

>>161061180
He became a super hero for his imouto.

>>161061180
Fast Wheels was Cu, so you know how bad it will end.
Beatrice was Berserker, wait for the movie.
Saber was Ainsworth head that he Caladbolg'd point blank.

>>161061180
Saber is a non-issue after he kills Sakura.

>>161061134
That'd be way too much of a shark jump for me, going "okay it's literally just Shirou" is silly af

>>161061046
>>161061048
>>161061068
>>161061096
If you say so.
But they despite the fact that saber alone can't sell shit, and ubw is the most popular route with the normies... she's still heavily pushed.

PS. Archer class Emiya is able to hold his own against everyone on that list and would be able to do admirably in any grail war. That's without relying on arrowspam and broken phantasms.

Think he wouldn't just become bullshit broken?

Oh, and there's only so many times you can say "They were not able to use their full power" or "They are just fucking around" before people want them to put up or shut up.

>>161061103
What are Kanshou and Bakuya? He's probably been seen using those weapons enough times as a counter guardian to have gained a legend.

>>161061046
So why doesn't he just his own sword skills that lets him defend against people that are twice as strong that he can't even see?

>>161061376
K&B isn't really associated with him, they'll always be related to the married couple. Plus his stats is too low to qualify for Saber class.

>>161061273
Not that thong loli and tits McGee genderswap pirates weren't

>>161050797
I remember reading a fanfiction where EMIYA got summoned to the fourth war by Tokiomi.

He decides to screw around with Kirei.

>>161060697
Broken Phantasm are literally called "a one time explosion of magical energy".

>>161061376
Not really. The class container's stat increases are minimal at best. Even if Emiya somehow managed to get shoved into the Saber class container, it's not as if things would change for him. All of his weapons are derived from either Unlimited Blade Works or his Gradation Air. Beyond that, he'd just receive the Riding Skill, and that's about it. Look at Nero if you want to see how "powerful" the Saber class really is. Stat-wise, she's nothing special.

The reason Sabers are so coveted isn't because of the class itself, but because, ordinarily, only amongst the most exceptional Heroic Spirits get attached to that class. It has nothing to do with the container and everything to do with the container's reputations.

Also, Counter Guardians don't receive "legends". They're mostly just invisible janitors. When a Counter Guardian acts, no one's really gonna live to tell the tale.

Who'd when in this fight Gil vs Karna?