Fate/Apocrypha:

>>160449631
Sieg sucks

>>160449791
No one gives a shit about him aside from OP.

>>160449631
>sumanai-kun

Apocrypha is worse than Deen FS/N

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Fate

>>160449631
The cutest

>>160449791
>>160449877
nice bait

Sieg is the best!

>>160450662
>Having a common opinion is bait
>>160450757
Fuck off Astolfo

Why people like Shirou but hate Sieg???

>>160450924
same reason why people like Kirino but hate Sagiri

>>160450924
Sieg's existence is due to Siegfried's sacrifice, and Siegfried was actually pretty cool for the 5 pages he was in the LN. Shirou's existence as an MC didn't require any other characters to die for him.

>>160450924
The only Servant that died to power up or save Shirou was Archer, and that happened after two routes with him, one of which was devoted entirely to exploring who he was and why he was that way.

Siegfried gets barely any time to develop the potential he had before he's killed off to save Sieg, and then not long after Fran dies also to save and power up Sieg.

>>160449791
Sumanai

Why didn't Jeanne user one her CS to order Karna to commit sudoku?

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Soul>mind>shit>body

>>160451324
She was going to order him to stop in the LN, but her Revelation skill said he'd be too fast for her to do that.

>>160449631
Best boy

>>160449631
>Sieg becomes the MC
>episode is absolute garbage

Sasuga

>>160450314
DEEN FS/N is fantastic so a lot of stuff is worse than it.

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Jesus christ Jannu a cute.

>>160450924
Shirou's harem has a 4 waifushits

>>160451090
like how Kiritsugu saved and devoted the rest of his life to raising a random kid he never interacted with before.

>>160451376
Route that isn't just Nero/Caster sucking the MC's dick>*

>>160451509
He only gets with one each route secondary

>>160451547
>

>>160449898
FASTER!

>>160451267
>Fran dies
thos is no fault of Sieg, you secondary reddit

>>160451547
At least with Kiritsugu we got an entire prequel series that went into his initial motivations, deconstructed them, and had Shirou become the only good thing he managed to salvage from the whole ordeal. Siegfried barely lasted 1 volume of the LN and 4 episodes of the anime.

>>160450662
At this rate you're the who's baiting by having Sieg on the OP to piss off /a/ thus have guaranteed replies to your shitty generals.

>>160451003
>like Sagiri but hate Kirino
ftfy m8

>>160451650
It's not Sieg's fault but he still somehow got the most benefit from it due to being the MC.

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They should just cancel Apoc and make a Camelot SoL anime

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This shit is more retarded than a 15 years old genderfluid fanfic

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>>160450924
because at least Shirou's autism to swords is funny?

>>160451650
In story, no. But look at what happens after she dies. Sieg absorbs her lightning which pretty much brings him back to life again after he got the shit kicked out of him, it jumpstarts his ability to transform into Siegfried, and in volume 5 he learns how to use her Galvanism skill and Blasted Tree NP.

It's clearly that speaking in terms of the overall narrative, she was killed off to give Sieg more power.

>>160451883
Cool argument bro.

>>160451770
Does that mean King Arthur was raped by his brother who gave birth to their son?

>>160450924
just ignore them, its just a small group of dedicated haters from mal and reddit posting the same shit in each thread.

>>160451931
It just means that Morgaine raped Arhur.
Or, Morgan le Fay is a guy indeed, but Merlin gave him a magical pussy.

>>160451907
Counter force son, he was guided to absorb fran's power.

>>160451883
Look at that face! Someone is gonna fuck tonight!

>>160451770
Is Lady Lancelot still fucking Arthur's wife or is she going straight for the king?

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>>160451883

>>160450924
Shirou has Archer going for him.

It's his number 1 charm point.

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>we're about to destroy all creation
>but lets try to negotiate with other party, maybe they just give up.
>we are about to destroy all life in galactic
>but lets try ton negotiate so they give up and there is less bloodshed.
What the fuck.

>>160452138
Wait, the Redman was Shirou!?

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>>160451907

It's clearly that speaking in terms of the overall narrative, illya was killed off to give Shirou more development

>>160452031
Then why didn't he just go absorb Jeanne's power? Would have saved a lot of trouble.

>>160452068
Lancelot fucks Arthur's wife and Arthur takes revenge by fucking his daughter.

>>160452031
That doesn't matter at all. Higashide used her death to power up his MC. That's all there is to it.

>>160452202
Don't believe that anon's lies.

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>>160451883

>>160452224
Why wouldn't Arthur just join in? A 3some with 2 hot girls one being his wife and the other being one of the greatest swords(wo)man of his kingdom.

>>160452294
Then who is the Redman???

>>160452334
Smug

>>160452330
If Arthur wasn't autistic, then he wouldn't fuck everything.

>>160451547
Kiritsugu wasn't a focus at any point during Fate Stay Night.

In Fate Zero he was the focus and wasn't sidelined by Shirou.

Imagine if after the 4th Episode of Fate Zero Kiritsugu decides to give all of his magical abilities to Shirou and leave it up to him.

>>160452334
Jeanne Alter
Don't tell anyone

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>>160452334
The spiritual embodiment of /a/.

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>>160451883
Asseylum's clone

>>160452202
He is Marik Ishtar who converted to Catholicism and started a new life with a new name and identity.

>>160452068
Straight for the King since he knows they have different genders this time.

>>160452202

Cao Cao

>>160452334
It's Shirou!

>>160449631
Man this anime is trash

>>160452519
>lying in the internet
why?

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>>160452310
What is that bell for?

>Prototype Fragments
>El Melloi Case Files
>Strange Fake

Which would you replace Apocrypha with?

>>160452210
Because that's not how Counter Force works.
If it could do that, it might as well just give you the power to istantly destroy the threat.
>>160452251
But that power up is justified, so I don't see the problem.

>>160452609
Strange Fake to be followed by Case Files since I'm done with any servant shit after SF.

>>160452609

Strange Fake with more episodes.

>>160452609
Strange Fake for Grand Saber.

>>160452609
>Prototype Fragments
fujo garbage.
>El Melloi Case Files
Autistic grumpy waver adventures? No tnx
>Strange Fake
Has Black death, Gilgamesh, Enkidu, Best jack, and Best Herc so this.

>>160451907
I still don't understand how it jumpstarted Sieg. It was literally limiters released and a CS-boosted lightning strike. Forget reviving him, wouldn't that just vaporize his dead body?

>>160452689
That's because you are looking at it the other way. You're thinking that it's fine if there is an in-story explanation. Everyone who hates Sieg is thinking it doesn't matter because the story is shit as a result.

>>160452795

This is written fiction, not physics. Everything happens because the writer wanted so.

>>160452609
I really hope Narita delivers and make Richard's Ayaka to be Manaka. There's no point of holding back now since SF already has a lot strange bullshit and is getting set up to be a clusterfuck.

>>160452814
If something is justified, you can hate it all you want, but can't call it an asspull.
If people hate Sieg mainly cause they read on /a/ that he's shit it's not my business.

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I have a question /a/. I'm pretty sure it's mentioned in the VN that Avalon is the only noble phantasm that Shirou can almost reproduce perfectly because it was embedded in his body for so long. So surely that must also apply to Archer, even if it is no longer physically with him why doesn't he just project it when he's injured like at the beginning of the fate route?

>>160452689
Then how does Counter Force work? he was guided to absorb Frans power but not Jeanne? What's the difference?

>>160452689
Justifying something in-universe doesn't excuse something from being narrative stupid. It's why, to this day, people get assblasted that Shirou beats Gil in UBW.

>>160452890
Difference being that Fran was dead.

>>160452609
Case Files.

Strange Fake is not going to be finished for another decade at least so that's out, and Fragments is just fujo trash. Meanwhile, Case Files features an already popular character and can be used to let Fate animation projects gain more traction. It also has Flat so you can use it to lead into Strange Fake.

>>160452877
Because it's useless without a connection to his waifu

>>160452877
Archer forgot how it looks like

>>160452795
Same reason Sieg doesn't begin to reject Siegfried's heart and it doesn't start trying to take him over Shirou with Archer's arm style as soon as Sieg develops past the blank slate of a homunculus. The rules are bent to make Sieg better and more important.

>>160452925
That's their own problem.
If something is justified and makes sense inside the narrative, you not liking it is just your own problem.

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poor astolfo

>>160452740
>Protoype
>Fujo
Even Zero and Strange Fake is more fujo than Prototype.

>>160452925
But Shirou beating Gil is the opposite case, it makes narrative sense but the in-universe explanation is weak.

>>160452832
Cause Sieg is the MC and he's a Saber now and Saber's are better much unstoppable.

>>160452870
Oh, no. It's totally still an asspull. Just because you explain how you pulled shit out of your doesn't mean you didn't pull it out of your ass.

>>160453005
That's fucking rude.
Jannu a shit!

>>160453005
Trio garbage

>>160452877
The Avalon he gave Saber was a unique projection that basically removed the one that was embedded within himself. Archer did the same thing in his original route, so he lost that capability.

>>160453049
>An Asspull is a moment when the writers pull something out of thin air in a less-than-graceful narrative development, violating the Law of Conservation of Detail by dropping a plot-critical detail in the middle, or near the end of their narrative without Foreshadowing or dropping a Chekhov's Gun earlier on.

It's not an asspull, you're just retarded.

>>160452609
Remake

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>>160453005
Does this look like the face of mercy?

remember Shirou Amakusa Kotoni has the frequency control of 4 masters and 5

>>160453005
"It's not that I have anything against him, but once we confront each other, I would naturally make a fist, you see! I wonder why!?"

>>160452161
Almost like no-one involved in that conversation actually wants to destroy everything.

>>160453115
>tv tropes
Where's the in story explanation and foreshadowing for how Sieg absorbed Fran's lightning? Bear in mind that explaining it afterwards doesn't count as foreshadowing at all.

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>yfw gay cucked

REMOVE THE GAY

>>160453188
Counter force has been introduced years ago.

>>160452740
>best Herc

You mean worst. Alcides is trash.

>>160453225
Find the required quote in F/A then.

>>160453225
That's not foreshadowing and it doesn't work on the exact mechanics of the series. Please show me where in volume 1 or 2 it was foreshadowed that someone could absorb Fran's lightning instead of it being used to revive her as the NP description states.

>>160453005
fuck violent tsundere, she wants to hog the strong and thick dragon dick

>>160453217
Then you'd have to remve both Sieg and Astolfo cause Sieg didn't seem to mind.

>>160453274
There's no quote because apocrypha is a spin off of a big series which is part of an even bigger universe, so many things are given for known.
Same way as it doesn't explain you how grail works, what throne of heroes and Root are.

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>>160453005
>>160453136
>>160453217

Reminder that Jeanne is a slut that only cared about Sieg after he had a dragon cock while Astolfo was by his side when he had a tiny homunculus cock.

>>160452941
I can see Case Files being the next adaptation. A way to introduce Flat while waiting for SF to finish or get a reasonable distance ahead. Caules is even in it, so it could build off of Apoc.

>>160453217
That should be Remove Jeanne.

Astolfo and Sieg had a good thing going on, and now Jeanne is showing up out of nowhere and trying to break the two apart. That's called homewrecking.

>>160453373
So you are saying a vital plot point you keep arguing for is actually not mentioned at all in the story then? Making it not a plot point at all.

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>>160453376
Is there anyone purer than Astolfo-tan?

>>160453401
Faggots not allowed

>>160453450
Hey, I'll take Jeanne tits over Astolfo's buldge, but don't tell Sieg and Astolfo aren't cute as fuck.

>>160452870
You're being delusional. Again.

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>>160453376
Real OTP

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Is SiegxAstolfo the purest form of love?

>>160453438
Just think whatever you prefer, your fault for being a retarded secondary and not reading past works which are for obvious reasons linked to a spin off.

>>160453450
Astolfo and Sieg are having bro adventure while Jeanne is slowing them down and got Ast sent back to his wife who locks him up in her sex dungeon for days on end.

>>160453519
If you can't source your shit from the actual work, don't expect anyone to take you seriously.

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Why wasn't Astofol summoned as a Lancer as opposed to a Rider, how powerful would be be as one?

Also post your top five Type Moon girls and other anons work out your fetishes. Mine are: Medusa, Bazett, Touko, Arc and Jeane.

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>>160453503
yeahhhhhhhhh

>>160453581
>Why wasn't Astofol summoned as a Lancer as opposed to a Rider
Vlad was already summoned and Astolfo can rider a Hippogryph.

>>160453566
Kara no Kyoukai, Tsukihime and Fate.
Have fun reading them.
And don't you dare reading Strange Fake, that shit talks about dead apostles and ORT, what the fuck are they?

>>160453616
This isn't even physically possible.

>>160453503
CelenikexAstolfo is purer.

>>160453643
Fate/Apocrypha, you retard.

If it's not mentioned there as the reason for things happening, it has no bearing on the story. It's just you making shit up.

>>160453644
With the grail and servants, anything is possible.

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>>160449631
Sieg a CUTE

>>160453698
>making things up
But they're written in other titles of the same universe, anon. I'm not making anything up, you're just stupid.

>>160453644
You just need to use a Command Spell.

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>>160453698
So you think every entry of a series must be entirely self contained and nothing must be universally constant amongst them?

>>160453761
And if it isn't directly referenced, they have no relevance.

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Is Astofol a man or a woman? I'm legit confused.

>>160453650

>You'll never do lewd thinks with Celenike

Astofol is one lucky motherfucker

I tried to watch this series but I can't get over what a fucking retarded name 'Yggdmillennia' is. Did TYPEMOON think 'HitlervonKillington' was too subtle?

>>160453644
>>160453700
>>160453768
Something-something finds a way.

>>160453807
That's just your wrong opinion though.

>>160453581
>Jeane Alter
pls fix

>>160453761
If it's not directly stated in the work in question, it's you headcanoning things and making it up.

>>160453722
Slaine's face and Kimiko's soft hair

>>160453843
Tell that to the Ore no Imouto crowd.

>>160453823
I don't think they were going for subtle when they explicitly state that they were Nazis.

>>160453836
>>160453836

>Not wanting to lovingly headpat every variant of Jeane

It's like you don't even love fluffy hair

>>160453843
Just like angra mainyu is an asspull in fate zero's final volume, or dead apostles are introduced without explaining them in strange fake.

stop watching this shit show

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>>160453823
>Japan in charge of western names
>Japan in charge of western anything

>>160453818
He's a guy and yes he's a lucky man to get to come home to Celenike after a fun day cracking open a cold one with the boys, and Jeanne.

>>160453968
why? it's good and I like the characters

>>160453823
I'm 80% sure that Japanese doesn't even have a word for 'subtle'.

>>160454006

Which servant or master would be the most fun to drink with? I think Astofol, Sisgo, Mordred and Chiron.

>>160453818
when does this bitch die so Astolfo can go back to his true love?

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And so the wait begins.

>>160453918
What? Only Dranic was nazi, not all of them.

>>160454081
Add Alexander, Vlad and maybe Nero and/or Tamo to that list and i think your'e set for the most part

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>>160453550

>>160453833
You have failed to prove anything though. The argument is the Counter Force is using Sieg so that's why everything is bending over backward for him.

The burden of proof is on you to prove that is the case. Your only argument is the existence of the Counter force. However, you have also admitted there is no mention of the counter force in Apocrypha. Which would mean one of the most important plot points and the reason for why everything happens to Sieg is not mentioned in the story, but we should just assume that's the case.

That makes no sense. Like, it fails on every narrative level.

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>>160453005
same

>>160454037
Subtle is only fun for edgefags who think they are smart and want to be praised for watching cartoons.
If you want to entertain, you go in hard and loud.

>>160454216

Nero would be top tier. I think Touko would make a great drinking buddy but if we're adding in other Type Moon girls then Medusa would be my number one choice to drink and chill with. Can't say no to a girl who enjoys a good book and a nice beer.

>>160453961
short hair and autist fac

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>>160454204
>>160453918
>nazi summoned a Hebrew kabbalist golem-master
THERE's an awkward work-relationship.

>>160454292
I didn't know this was a thing, i approve but Astolfo's heart and body will only find satisfaction with Celenike

>>160453968
Get back to playing mobage F/G a mobage about "waifus".

>>160454467
Melb wants to fuck all men, especially cute men

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>>160454432
They even put a menorah on his table to hint on jew I guess.

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>>160454292
>Counter force son, he was guided to absorb fran's power.

>>160454203
I don't get why somebody won't release English subs faster? Every time subs for Apocrypha in other languages come before English, so it's not impossible to translate faster. Why there is no faster group to pick it up? I would be okay even with an srt file from anon.

I want to protect Astofol's smile. What is it that makes Rider class best class every series? They always seem like top tier bros.

>>160454432
He hates everyone so it's fine.

>>160454587
Well i guess showoff their riding skill together. AstolfoxCelenike is top and that anon just gave me a new one with AstolfoxMedb. Can he get any more pure.

>>160454795
Riders know they can't win so they end up having the most fun. Drinking with Riders would be amazing.

>>160454845

I want to get drunk with Alexander, Medusa and Astofol.

>>160454820
Does he? He seems pretty chill.

I seriously don't get who the target audience of this series is. It clearly expects you already have knowledge of how the Holy Grail War is supposed to work and the original Fate was 11 years ago. But the quality of writing in both character interactions and plot is obviously aimed at children.

Who is meant to be watching this? Originals or newcomers?

>>160454978
They explained basics in the first ep, I don't know what's not to understand here.

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>>160453441
yeah

>>160454324
Then tell how it is different from fate zero and strange fake's examples.

>>160454978
>the original Fate was 11 years ago

>>160454928
>Astofol
Literally who?

>>160454978
People that play FGO, who may or may not have seen any other Fate media.

>>160454432
I'm pretty sure Darnic only joined the nazis to steal the grail. Not because of any ideological agreement.

>>160455065
Are the events there mostly motivated by the Counterforce and just not mentioned too?

>>160453963
False equivalence, Zero is a prequel of Heaven's Feel and DAs in SF are just fucking blood suckers who also happen to be in that Grail War.

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>>160455070
frogpost

>>160454978
Whoever really. Higashide is just not as good as Nasu and it shows. Apocrypha had lots of potential but seriously couldn't live up to it.

>>160449631
>all those fucking FSN self-insertfaggots in the other thread saying their shit self-insert would make F/A better
Do you fucks even remember how fucking cliche and Naruto-like Deen's FSN was?
One of the reasons I even liked FSN back then was how similar to (early) Naruto that it was. Only difference was, it had harem elements to it that now I consider disgusting for the Fate series.

>>160451572
It does not matter. People who read the VN don't think that way. They all think of the VN as the same, that they're all waifus at the same time.
Besides, the anime functions in almost that manner, because it kinda mixed up the VN.

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What would a date with Medusa be like? She's perfect in every way.

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>>160455161
They should have shown his flashback about stealing it in anime.

>>160455172
Zero is not directly related to F/SN

>>160455226
>Unlimited Bread Works

>>160455167
How do you "motivate" angra mainyu if I may ask?

>>160455226
Raidah is sexy.

>>160455380
I know you wanted to sound be clever but that sentence makes no sense.

>>160455226
What a small baguette

That's what she said
Fuck you

>>160455397

I love hear hair, sweater puppies and general attitude. Best girl and servant.

I just can't believe they didn't even try to hide the lust Jeanne has for Sieg

https://nyaa.si/view/943888
>[12bit]
This meme has gone too far...

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>>160455372
>Zero is not directly related to F/SN

>>160455595
Who could contain such a lust for dragon dick?

>>160455377
Archer should've became a baker.

>>160455595
Higashide was annoyed people didn't comprehend his masterpiece so he doubled down on everything people complained about.

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>>160452740
>El Melloi Case Files
>Autistic grumpy waver adventures? No tnx

>Not wanting to watch magical detective adventures of Waver and his class of autists + a literal Saber clone

BER-SER-CAR

>>160455341
>We will never get to see how Darnic fucked up Zouken so bad that the Makiris died out right then and there

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>>160455595

>211 posts
>53 posters
Is Apo dead?

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>>160455610

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>>160455701
A boy has no business being this cute.

Flat > Astolfo

>>160455455
I just asked a question, and you haven't replied.
Angra mainyu makes no sense if you consider fate zero only, now that's an asspull.

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This is Jeanne. She is caring, strong, beautiful and an all around swell mademoiselle.

Let's say something nice about her!

So I don't speak moon, but I'm assuming that since they don't have a homunculus-farm, the three red servants were leading up to an orgy with Shirou to restore their mana.

This right?

>>160455911
She's almost as good as Jeanne Alter.

>>160452609
probably Case Files into Prototype into F/SF because i think people are convinced the ayaka in F/SF is actually manaka post prototype and Case files sets up flat and waver so its a great setup into F/SF.

>>160455907
Doesn't matter. He at least had the decency to appear in the story.

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>>160453217
It's as if the author realized how intimate he made Sieg and Astolfo originally and is replacing it with Jeanne since the relationship was pretty underdeveloped for the end game. Jeanne spent an inordinate amount of time being jealous of their closeness.

Why do you all keep saying Sieg has an enormous cock? Sure the guy is ripped but that's all.

>>160456110
Because he turns into Fafnir.

>>160456110
Dragon dick.

>>160456062
Are you serious?
You complained about a phenomenon in nasuverse which is even explained in stay night, and now you're just "hey whatever at least it appears".
Of course it appears you retard, one is an entity and the other an abstract thing, but the fact remains that angra mainyu appears out of nowhere in the final novel, and if you haven't read the main story that's a real asspull with no foreshadowings.

>>160456071
Why is she so pretty?

>>160456071
The author realized how gay it looked when actually animated so thought to turn it down.

>>160456110
The same reason Astolfo's dick returns you to spiritual form.

>>160456175
That doesn't matter. You are comparing an element introduced to the story to an element that's simply not introduced to the story.

It's like me saying Shirou beat Gilgamesh because he was acting as an agent of the Counter Force. It's nothing more than a stupid headcanon.

>>160456071
How much until this cutie goes full badass mode?

Anime needs more badass cripples

>>160456071
Does she die/walk again?

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>>160456391
In an episode or two, she'll go full Doctor Octopus against Shishigo. Needs to get bailed out by her brother though.

>>160456277
You're fucking dumb.
Angra Mainyu is not introduced, it popped out of nowhere.
Three whole volumes with no foreshadowings and then the ending is "oh right the grail is corrupted and there's this mud coming out from a hole in the sky".
If you don't have the background infos (which zero doesn't give you) it's an asspulled ending.
It's literally the same thing as counter force not being explained, because you're supposed to know what it is already.

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>>160456391

>>160456211
Yeah, this. Though it's a bit awkward when the manga retains it while the anime is so different.

>>160456391
Soon.

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>>160455701
Was that image drawn before we were shown Faker?

>>160456513
Probably. I just pulled it off pixiv after reading the translations. Anything interesting happen in the later volumes?

>>160456454
>go lion dies
>Seig lives

This is the true tragedy in apo.

>>160456454
Are they really siblings? Also why does she call Darnic 'uncle', are they relatives?

>>160456460
It was building on the idea that had been brought up over and over that saving the world like that was a childish dream that Kerry couldn't abandon, which directly implies that it wasn't feasible. Also, you're referring to a phenomenon that exists in the FSN VN first and foremost, and is heavily featured in it. Apocrypha has no tie to either Tsukihime or Kara no Kyoukai where the idea of the Counter Force empowering people is brought up. They don't even exist in the same universe anymore. Finally, here's the thing, it being an asspull ending in Zero doesn't stop things from being an asspull in Apocrypha. None of the Sieg shit had any sort of foreshadowing or nod towards the Counter Force in Apocrypha itself. If it's not in the relevant work and it's something that relies on knowledge of works that are in a completely different universe, it's pretty clearly a fucking asspull that you're trying desperately to explain away.

>>160456619
>Are they really siblings?

Nigger are you even paying attention?

>>160456616
>Sieg lives
He's stuck in one place for all of eternity.

>>160456619
She and Caules are siblings, in the Forvedge family. Forvedge is one of many families united under Yggdmillennia. While Darnic is not their direct uncle, he is head of their overall clan, so uncle is the closest thing.

>>160456722
Yeah with Jannu. The tragedy.

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>>160456616
At least he doesn't go out like a bitch.

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>>160456616
No, the true tragedy is Seibah never showing up to lecture her daughter for dressing so slutty. She did not raise that sort of girl.

>>160456849
Morgan purposefully raised her shittily, as a joke

>>160456786
>the worst jeanne
>no wifi
A fate worse than death.

>>160456663
You can think about both of them as asspull, but they're not.
Counter Force and Counter Guardians are in FSN as well, not only Tsukihime and Kara no Kyoukai; besides, them not being part of the same universe doesn't mean they have their own different rules and phenomena (in fact it's the contrary, see Root)
Learn what spin off means (hint: you don't read it if you haven't checked the main titles first)

Why not genderbend Astolfo entirely?

Was there a valid point in the plot for the author to mantain his trap status?

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>>160456849
She did not rise that girl at all in fact.

>>160455372
You are fucking retarded.

>>160455631
It directly contradicts multiple points from the VN

>>160456929
Counter Guardians are a part of Fate, yes, but the Counter Force empowering specific individuals is not ever explained that way. You're trying to argue that trivia knowledge from other parts of the franchise that Apoc is a spinoff from justifies everything about Sieg, despite it never being mentioned in Apoc itself and never suggested as a possible reason for it in universe.

>>160456460
Anon, he appeared. It doesn't matter how out of nowhere he was. He appeared. He was introduced as a thing that existed no matter how abruptly. You keep comparing something that didn't appear and wasn't mentioned to things that were.

That doesn't work.

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Are Apocrypha and Strange Fake in the same, or different continuities?

>>160454663
Nah, menorah has 9 candles.

>>160457097
Different continuities

>>160456963
They'd done the 'genderbent' thing already. More than once.
Now TM needed to sell shitty overpriced resin-sculptures to the trap-demographic.

>>160457097
Different. Apo takes place in a continuity where Ruler was summoned instead of Avenger. In Fake, Avenger was summoned.

>>160457097
Strange Fake canonically takes place after SN. Apocrypha is in a separate timeline that diverged during 3rd War.

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>>160453169
But they sure trying to do it.
And dumb Iskander with even more dumb Jeanne rolling with it.

>>160457097
ALTERNATE REALITIES

This is typemoon's dodge to literally every question since it allows both everything and nothing to be canon simultaneously.

>>160456963
It's a waifu/husbando franchise and most of the designs and archetypes the characters fit into are to appeal to difference people. One trap among so many girls isn't a big deal. If he wasn't a trap he'd probably be a genki bishounen anyway.

>>160457097
Strange Fake is in the same universe of Zero, Stay Night, and HA.

>>160457046
Appearing out of nowhere with no hints is the definition of asspull.
>>160457022
Counter Force is simply part of the system Counter Guardians are from.
Plus that thing is already quoted in fate titles, you just don't know that.
Shirou was a threat for the humanity and thus Alaya intervened.

>>160457195
As with every bad writing convention, they learn it from the west.

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>>160457187
Anyone else want to lick her tattoos?

>>160457346
But he appeared which is what seems to elude you. That's more than we can claim of your headcanon.

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>>160457183
>>160457310
The alternate reality shit confused me just a tad, but it's nice to see that cleared up.
Though, does SF Gil have any memory of the both Fuyuki Grail Wars?

>>160456912
>he would rather be stuck with a permaPMSing, splinters-in-pussy, cringy, chuuni chav slut.

>>160457486
Who?

>>160457441
>Though, does SF Gil have any memory of the both Fuyuki Grail Wars?
Nope. This is a Gil fresh from the Throne of Heroes. No grail mud either.

>>160457441
Nope, it's a completely fresh copy that was summoned. Though he has some knowledge of what his other self was up to, it is not the same Gil.

>>160457441
The degree to which Heroic Spirits remember what happens to them every time they are summoned is something that Nasu has flip flipped on a few times. In the beginning, they sometimes remembered it like a book they have read, but more recent stuff (GO) has had those memories be considerably more clear.

>>160457433
How is it headcanon when Alaya and Counter Force take action exactly in such a situation?

>>160457554
The most accurate description of JAlter I could find.

>>160457598
Because if they aren't mentioned taking action, it is just you assuming they are taking action. This is not a hard concept to grasp. Something so important and crucial to the plot of the story should have been mentioned in the story or interviews, but you have no quotes.

By default, it's your headcanon unless you can proof and we have been down that road already.

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>>160457486
??

>>160457746
Fuck yeah Christmas

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>>160456071
Yeah, no. Author is well aware of the intimacy.

>>160457788
Jeanne just wanted Astolfo wrapped around her like that is all.

>>160457697
But if they TAKE action in such a situation, I'm not assuming anything, that's just how they work.
Plus it's not crucial at all: without taking it into consideration Sieg just happened to get that, knowing it just motivates it better.

>>160457904
It's literally the reason for why everything happens to Sieg, the main character of the story, so it is pretty crucial. And if you have nothing in the text saying that's happening, it's you assuming things.

>>160457788
I didn't mean the author isn't aware, I mean it's because he's aware that he's trying to tone it down or give it to Jeanne since she lacked the relationship building they had and because she is his waifu, probaby. I would be surprised if the anime keeps that scene.

>>160457904
This is some deadass circular logic right there.

>>160449631
Why is this saint such a bully?

>>160458053
>everything
It just explains one or two things at most.

Behead those who don't insult Sieg.

>>160457904
You can't even defend Sieg without making shit up and best part is, you are actually defending one of TM's worst MC.

>>160458160
He was a no name homunculus who randomly developed free will, randomly met a Heroic spirit who helped him, randomly got a heart from a Heroic Spirit, randomly got revived by a heroic spirit, randomly turned into a heroic spirit, and randomly turned into a dragon, the one thing that could have stopped Amakusa's wish from happening.

So yeah. You wouldn't have headcanon-ed the Counterforce explanation if Sieg's plotline wasn't riddled with stupidly conveniently events.

>>160457746
The other Alter. This one is actually bearable.

>>160450924
I hate them both.

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>>160458294
>randomly

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>>160457788
Some of this shit is lewd as fuck, taken out of context.

>>160458294
Do you know what "random" means?

>>160458458
Do you?

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>Astolfo is a slut
>Mordred is a slut
>Jeanu is a slut
>Hotwheels is a slut
>both assassins are sluts
This entire thing reads like it was written by a basement-sociopath who for the last ten years has only ever seen two or more human beings interacting on porn sites.

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>>160458493
Shut the fuck up, Mordred is a pure girl who only wants headpats from her chichiue.

>>160458397
Hot damn.

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>>160458493

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Feels good knowing that Shiki could BTFO Achilles.

>>160458294
Wow, this is just like FSN.
No name kid randomly gets involved in a magic war, randomly meets a super mage killer who helped him, randomly got a super magic item from super mage killer, randomly got revived by super magic item given by super mage killer, randomly change origin because of super magic item given by super mage killer. All that's left was the turning into a heroic spirit and shit, but you've got magical arm transplanting in the other routes, so it's not that different. Also, literally dies by turning into swords too.
Fate was also filled with stupidly convenient events as well.

The only MCs in the Fate series that don't have random shit on them are Ryougi, Tohno Shiki, and Soujuurou. Even the FGO Masters aren't random, they have actual purpose in Chaldea.

>>160458561
>says Mordred is pure
>Posts her being a filthy father-con
Go Lion is Mordred's one true father.

>>160449631
I think i may have to drop this, I found myself fast forwarding every scene with ruler and the homunculus, and with them getting the spotlight I think things will not get better.

>>160458397
What the fuck were they actually doing?

>>160458627
>a necromancer who she knew for a week or so has been more of a father to Mo-san than Altria

>>160458607
The difference is I like Archer too much to hate Shirou.

>>160458660
Playing horsies.

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>>160458627
>father-con
>not saber-con
All life is sexually attracted to Seibah.

>>160458693
You mean you self-insert into one shit MC, but not the other shit MC.

>>160458660
Mana Transfer.

>>160458744
Get back to work on that Tsukihime remake Takeuchi.

>>160458241
I'm not defending it, I don't give a shit about apocrypha since only fragment is worse than it.
But you're complaining about the only thing that makes sense.
>>160458294
>randomly met a Heroic spirit who helped him, randomly got a heart from a Heroic Spirit
Sure, that was random.
You don't need anything to explain this, you just have to actually follow the story.

>>160458660
Transferring the family Magic Crest from her to him.

>>160458607
The dumbest thing in FSN is when Shirou traces Caliburn and it just happens to shave off all of Berserker's lives because Nasu literally wrote himself into a corner. Everything that happens to Sieg is at least that dumb.

New fate/zero ost with new tracks.
https://twitter.com/Fate_SN_Anime/status/891322630166396928

http://vgmdb.net/album/66893

http://www.fate-zero.jp/soundtrack/

>>160458748
Nah, I just like the guy. He's closer to someone I husbando rather than someone I self-insert as.

>>160458789
>I'm not defending it

Who are you trying to fool?

>>160458607
the FGO protag only really became odd in the later chapters, the early chapters were pretty cool.

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Why didn't Fate/Zero include Saber's fight with Gil?

>>160458789
>Not defending
>Trying to explain away the worst character

>>160458913
Urobuchi is not a Saberfag.

>>160458866
When did I state I like Sieg?
I'm just saying why he happened to get fran's power, which is the only thing you need to introduce counter force for.
The rest makes perfect sense even inside the story, be it siegfried's sacrifice or why astolfo (who randomly lives in the castle sieg was in!) found him.

>>160458981
>Urobuchi is not a Saberfag.
>literally gives her more character development than any other character or writer

>>160458989
>When did I state I like Sieg?
Fucking irrelevant, you are defending the series bending over backwards for Sieg to be relevant in the story.

>>160458913
No need to show Gilgamesh jobbing again.

>>160458487
More than you at, at any rate. Not that counts for much.
>randomly met a Heroic spirit who helped him
They share the same building (and the sex dungeon would be near the homunculi vats). I don't consider seeing a roommate as something "random".
>randomly got a heart from a Heroic Spirit
>randomly got revived by a heroic spirit
Consistent with Siegfried's characterization and background. Not random or a whim.
>randomly turned into a dragon
Given Siegfried's (and Sieg's) connection to Fafnir through his blood, this isn't random either.
>the one thing that could have stopped Amakusa's wish from happening.
Counter Force.

>>160459028
Exactly!

How come blonde Ayaka is Manaka if the real Ayaka is alive and well? I mean, wasn't Manaka tried to kill Ayaka and only got stopped by Arthur?

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>>160459028
But Saber gets by far the most development in the Fate route. Zero was just Urobuchi shitting on her because he's a butthurt edgelord.

>>160459051
>I don't consider seeing a roommate as something "random".

They were never supposed to meet in the first place, that happening was by pure chance, in other words, randomly

>>160459028
Having a bunch of characters just shit on her is not character development.

>>160459051
>Counter Force.
*Headcanon

>>160458607
You forgot "getting the perfect counter to the greatest Heroic Spirit through a series of coincidences".

>>160459215
Bait harder

>>160459051
>Counterforce
>Muh headcanon!

>>160459215
Having a bunch of characters shit on her only for her to win every fight anyways.

>>160459189
Please explain to me how encountering someone you share a building with is "pure chance".

>>160459189
>never supposed to meet in the first place
The entire castle is filled with homunculi. Sooner or later, even by walking around, people will meet.
>>160459247
That route was a fucking mistake.

>>160459325
>>160459328
>Homunculli that is not supposed to get out the vat, randomly gets out the vat and starts crawling in just the right direction to meet the one guy who would help him no strings attached
>not pure chance

Bait harder.

>>160458607
You wish you were that no name kid

How much better would this be if instead of Jeannu we got Jannu Alter?

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I want to use the grail to make Rider a fem so we can marry.

>>160459404
You were never supposed to be born.
You were a random mistake.

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Friendly reminder that Fate route was the best route, and Fate Shirou was the best Shirou.

>>160459404
Don't move the goal posts.
>randomly developed free will
>randomly met a Heroic spirit who helped him
Read the reply chain. The latter is what's being talked about.

>>160452609
Any of these. I love the servants of SF and PF, kinda want to see them animated. Barely know anything about the Files but it sounds better than Apocrypha. Apo was always my least liked Fate thing and the only story I dropped. Will finish the anime at least though.

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>>160459447
Not using it to make you a girl so (s)he can impregante you.

>>160459423
>proving the point that that random no name kid is a reader self-insertion vehicle character
Of course, a lot of people who read FSN wished they were fucking Saber, Rin, and Sakura. And Rider, when HA came out. That's the very point of self-inserts.

>>160459519
And which is the best Shiki?

>>160459518
Wow, great retort anon, 10/10, you sure showed me.
>>160459529
Pray tell, from where to where have the goal posts been moved?

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>>160459585
Shiki of course.