Why did Lancer get memed on so hard for dying? Almost every Servant

I think it has to do with the tendency Lancers have to get ordered to kill themselfs

>>160411991
Probably this.

>>160411991
>tendency
we're talking about the old mainline series, not all the alt universe stories

>>160411622
I think Cu is pretty impressive for stalling Gilgamesh for half a day while being nerfed by a command spell.

>>160412231
How???

>>160412283
Kojiro also fought against Heracles and everyone else somehow.
Don't worry about it.

>>160411622
LANCER GA SHINDA!

>>160412231
>while being nerfed by a command spell.

I don't believe that was ever in effect toward Gil

>>160412283
It's been established Lancer is stupidly good at pure defense/ survival (the skills Battle Continuation and Disengage reflect this) and Protection from Arrows helps a shitload against GoB fire

>>160411622
According to that one chart, Rin can take his Luck to like C

>>160412522
>I don't believe that was ever in effect toward Gil
Why wouldn't it be? Wasn't it just a command to hold back in each first encounter with other Servants, or am I forgetting some caveat?

>>160412586
but what the fuck does Luck actually do other than asspulls?

>>160412431
YOU BASTARD!

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Lancer was unironically the strongest servant in Fate/SN. Kirei could have had won the war if he had let him so his job. Also there aint servant that Lancer has jobbed to without outside forces

>But Gil the strongest!
But he is retarded so it balances out plus Cu is the strongest servant in pure melee

Had he been Rins servant instead of Bazetts then Im sure Rin could have had won with ease. Too bad Bazett jobbed on him instead

>>160412923
Can Lancer beat Berserker?

>>160413405
No, but Cufags will go MUH RUNES and imply Cu could kill all 13 lives of bahsaka

>>160412623
Don't worry, not even Nasu had thought that far.
>>160413405
No, but he could stall Berserker long enough to kill Illya. That would be out of character though.

>>160411622
>It's not like he ever went out like a pussy either

He kinda did in Heaven's Feel (but so did everyone) but the thing is you're not wrong and that's the thing.

He died so good in the first two routes that it became the most memorable thing he did.

>>160413405
Yes. He can kill him once and use a brief window opening while he resurects to kill Illya. Gae Bolg is stupidly cheap on prana usage and can in gamkng terms have no cooldown so it can be used again in very quick succession.

>>160413405
He can kill Illya and finish off berserker if ordered by a seal. He cant really kill berserker as his NP doesnt have the rank for and even Saber had a tough time dealing with him.

Its not like Berserker can kill lancer either. Indefinite retreat aint honorsble but plausible

>>160413483
But anon, AthNGabla on Illya, gg. It's not like Cu doesn't listen to orders when given them. Nigga tried to kill Shirou immediately and for all intents and purposes, Shirou was a fucking nobody.
Even if the "keep the war secret" was in effect, it still shows he does shit like that.

So MUH RUNES is correct if you aim for Illya to remove BerHerker.

>>160413405
It's theoretically possible according to Nasu although very unlikely.
>>160413662
>>160413630
You're kinda ignoring that Cu is a battle maniac and would much rather fight Herk than simply kill Ilya

>>160413741
Though it's not like he would care about her if he were to throw Gae Bolg.

>>160413741
Does Cu even care for grail? I thought he just wanted good fight. So yeah, he would probably wont go for illya

>>160413741
>>160413662
>>160413630
>>160413601
>Lancer can kill Basakah when saber failed
Based Cu, too good for the world

Because he was running around in all three routes, but never really got much focus. The only Lancer scenes people tend to remember are the opening, Lancer throwing his spear at Archer, and Lancer's deaths.

Every other servant was prominent in at least one of the three routes, with the possible exception of the Assassins (which the story treats like fodder, anyway).

>>160413741
Not ignoring it. Just pointing out that Cu actually listens to orders.
His Bio even explains that about him in FGO.
>inb4 FGO shitposting.

"A heartless individual who would even murder commoners to silence them if that is part of his job, but on the other hand has a refreshing temperament when not on work. A helpful older brother-type of character."
His myth literally has him fuck up a bunch of people for what is ostensibly little reason.

>>160413872
>Just pointing out that Cu actually listens to orders.
Like when ordered to kill Rin?

>>160413938
Let's be fair.
He was fairly fed up with Kirei at that point

>>160413859
Will Assassin ever win ever?

>>160413938
While your point is vaild. Rin is a girl tied to a chair in a rape dungeon in a church being held there by a guy who ambushed Cu's actual master, cut off her hand and left her for dead.
The fact Cu didn't kill Kirei earlier speaks volumes about his dedication towards masters.

In saying that however, Illya is also a master in a Grail War and as such someone who is a viable target.
She is also older than Rin, checkmate atheist.

Why is Cu so cool? There's just something about a character that just wants a good fight that does it for me

Lancer, Rider, and Caster's backstories were my favorite parts of F/HA. It's a damn shame none of them made it into the original story, because they'd have probably made those three a lot more memorable than they were.

>>160413970
>>160414060
The point is that he wouldn't obey orders unquestionably. E.g. he most likely wouldn't follow an order that would lead to him breaking one of his geasa.
As for Illya, he wouldn't target her simply because it would hurt his pride.

>>160414244
Literally would kill commoners if it's part of his job. Sorta in the biography.
Now imagine you're in a war and your job is kill people your Master tells you to. Cu would do it.

If I am to humour you at this point then just leave Berserker to last, Command Seal one to kill Illya, Command Seal two to kill Cu, get your grail, enjoy your mud and fire.

>>160414244
>wouldn't target her
On his own, I forgot to clarify. If ordered, it wouldn't be out of character to reluctantly obey in this case.

>>160414345
>Command Seal two to kill Cu
remember how that worked out for Kirei?

>>160413854
Excalibur GG no re

>>160414396
You could always make your second wish to BP his NP into the stratosphere then make the third wish to kill himself.

However since the grail is corrupted and going to slime everyone anyway. May as well go out like a badass and say you fought Cu Chulainn.

>>160411622
he's a giant meme

>>160411622
He got meme'd on cause all of them invariably no matter the HGW get their masters killed and job hard. For example in F/A both Lancers ate shit in profoundly retarded ways.

>>160414004
Why can't assassin win? What's stopping him from just murdering the other masters in their sleep?

>>160412617
If anything, wouldn't that have buffed him? The spell was to "don't win, but also survive every first fight".

>>160412923
Can Cu beat Karna?

>>160416441
This is just me but maybe Masters having a Servant as a bodyguard might be a big issue for them.

>>160416716
Nah. Even if he tries to heartstab Karna, he'll just burn the spear thorns from inside him and walk it off like a champ.

>>160416441
Because the game is rigged in favor of Tohsakas/Einzberns/Matous getting knight classes aka Saber/Archer/Lancer unless they are explicitly screwed over(Kariya getting Lancelot).
>Berserker
Weak servant has to use ME to become equal to other Servants at the cost of sanity.
>but what if I use a stronger Servant into a Berserker
Enjoy your mana drain or homunculus timer.
>Assassin
Presence Concealment only lasts until you start attacking in any circumstances unless you get King Hassan/Li Shuwen/Kerry(KH can beat Numeral Gawain, Shuwen can beat up EMIYA in a single attack and Kerry has time alter cranked to 11 and A rank IA and can rip out Crests and Circuits) as your Assassin, under Fuyuki this is not possible as KH requires a Grand Container and the other two aren't Hassan. Your stats are also subpar except perhaps for speed and you rely on your opponent's Servant somehow being too preoccupied with something else. Otherwise they will notice what you're doing and beat your Assassin up
>Caster
Lmao 3 of the classes have some level of magic resistance so all you could do to win is stay in a hidey hole and hope they get killed somehow.
>Rider
Has a lower base container stat than the Knights and often don't have any methods to counter an Archer gunning for them unless you roll a really good Rider like Ozzy/Achilles/Broskandar to a lesser extent.
You would have to hope that the guys using Saber/Archer/Lancer are fucking retarded and try to actively sabotage themselves or you roll a Knight yourself.

>>160416441
He can, there was an entire subset of wars which explicitly outright shitcanned Hassan Assassin because they were outright shitting on the competition because smart masters know how to use Assassin class servants.

This is the thing, 99% of /a/ would win a Grail War if they got the Assassin Class servant. Not even the good ones either but shit like gunpowder midget Hassan.
There seems to be a correlation between being a Magus and being able to use an Assassin Class servant correctly.

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>>160417128
>Lmao 3 of the classes have some level of magic resistance so all you could do to win is stay in a hidey hole and hope they get killed somehow.

Not unless you summoned the best Caster whose Witchcraft bypasses MR
Also you can use 2-3 Command Seal to bind yourself to her NP (assuming that you know Projection) and try to create a pseudo-UBW

>>160416716
No.
Because Karna's divinity has this paragraph which I think pretty much only applies to Cu.

Divinity: A

As the son of the Sun Deity Surya and having united with Surya after death, Karna possesses the highest Divine Spirit aptitude. This Divine Spirit aptitude exhibits high defensive power in regards to sun deity-lineage's Heroic Spirits of Divinity B or lower.

>>160416441
Basically Assassin and Caster are a million times better than the other classes and would style all over them if they were allowed to. But obviously they can never be allowed to, because fate is about chuuni sword-fights and watching one guy auto win everything forever, without ever fighting anyone, would be insanely boring.

>>160412617
something to the effect of "scout out all the opponents" meaning the 6 other servants and Gil didn't fall in that category since he wasn't his enemy at the time of that command

Honestly, an isekai'd anon would absolutely win using Caster/Assassin

>>160417728
As they say, common sense is a god-damn superpower.
I'd honestly think you could give any Isekai'd anon any servant and they'd still be able to win a top servant grail war.

>>160417866
Shut the fuck up cuck

I like how he dies in every episode of Carnival Phantasm

>>160412231
How does Gil manage to beat a weapon that changes fate to always pierce the targets heart? Hell how did EMIYA mananage to do that? Gay Bulge is retarded.

>>160412283
PROTECTION
OF
ARROWS

>>160417968
Hi Kayneth

>>160418058
>Hell how did EMIYA mananage to do that?
He didn't.
Thrown Gae Bolg doesn't do that. And he still lost

>>160418058
>Gil
Because Gae Bolg has a much shorter range than GoB and all Gil would have to do is keep him at bay until he gets a lucky shot. Or Cú tries to throw it and Gil tosses a bunch of B rank NPs at the spear & at Cú at the same time.
>EMIYA
He never used the thrust version on him, only the thrown version where EMIYA used Rho Aias to stalemate it.

Spooky Hassan from SF with his EX rank presence concealment seems like he would be an insanely efficient master killer, even the guy who summoned him didn't notice him until he wanted to be noticed, even when he attack his Concealment only goes down to A +

Lancer is shit-tier servant and never wins without Bazett as master, canonically. Deal with it Lancer-fags

>>160413741
thats were command seals come in.

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>>160418350
>Lancer is shit-tier servant

>>160418350
No man, he's good it's just that I'm the only one who can use him effectively

If I were in the fate universe (any fate) I would win in 15 minutes flat

>>160418058
>Gay Bulge is retarded.
Rho Aias is even more retarded. I'm sure Gil have it in his vault along many others.
>>160412283
Cu have protection from projectiles, high survival abilities, can "reset fights" to recover himself, have 18 magic runes, and gets a boost when he is at the brink of death. Also he can summon a castle when fighting in Ireland

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posting a better lancer.

an assassin is fine too.

>>160418499

Can you use fragarach? If answer is yes, then sure you can win. If answer is no, then you can't

Can we agree rider is literally the shittiest class? Every single rider would be more powerful in any other class they can use.

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>>160418652
I fucking sure can

>>160418804
It also doesn't help that Rider is full of a lot of stretching in who is considered a Rider and why.
Ramesses II NP is a fucking building.

>>160411622
He's a hero's hero. He was always going to get a shit death for being a real hero.

>>160419100
And so is Marie's second NP

>>160418804
The class is fine. The entire schtick was that they were supposed to have multiple NP to use but then that ended up becoming standard among all servants.
Ushi with her extra four NP is the only real modern version of that old rule.

>>160419208
Doesn't Achilles have a quadrillion NPs in apocrypha

>>160418804
lol no
Mesuda would have wiped on the 5th had it not been for she being extremely nerfed thanks to Shinji being a shit. Cybele is broken as fuck and so is Bellerephon.

>>160419281
>can't kill Saber
>can't kill Berserker
>can't kill Gil
Yeah no.

>>160419281
>Mesuda
I don't think she can defeat anyone other than Assassin, even with a good master. The 5th war its full of OP servants, even if Medusa is top-tier she can defeat someone like Saber, Lancer or Bersercules.

>>160419467
*can't defeat

>>160419467
How would she fare in zero, sf or apocrypha wars?

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>>160419707
>Zero
>Saber
Well we already saw how that turned out.
>Lancer
He has no way of countering Bellorophon or her Mystic Eyes, he's fucked.
>Archer
Obviously not.
>Other Rider
She'd fuck him up with her Mystic Eyes, and Bellorophon is at least equal to his chariot.
>Caster
She probably couldn't beat his giant Cthulhu thing, but in any other scenario she could just roll over him.
>Assassin
lol
>Berserker
Probably couldn't beat him directly, but if she's smart she could just kite around him until he kills Kariya through mana drain.
Also pegasus > jet

>>160419707
>Zero
Dies to Saber and Gil. Cybele for everyone else. I'm assuming she replaces Iskander, if not she beats him.

>SF
Probably dies to everyone

>Apo
Can only beat the Berserkers and Casters. Gets killed by everyone else.

>>160419707
I only know F/SN and Zero, the power rating would be something like this

Gilgamesh > Heracles > Arthur(F) > Lancelot > Cu Chulain > Iskander > Medea > Medusa > EMIYA > Diarmuid > Hassan(F/SN) > Gilles > Kojiro > Hassan(F/Z)

>>160412923
There's literally no scenario where Lancer could kill Gil

>>160420087
>I'm assuming she replaces Iskander
Medusa and Waver would be an entertaining combo, I'm imagining lots of dropped spaghetti

>>160420087
I don't think she could beat Adam could she?

>>160420088
Iskander isn't really that strong, his reality marble can be beaten by anyone who has an anti-army NP.

>>160420201
This is just for raw power an abilities, like EMIYA can defeat Gil but he isn't stronger than him.

Is there any servant version of Shirou who can use Avalon?

Did Shinji fug Medusa?

>>160420553
Yes

>>160419707
Apoc she would probably do pretty well except against Karna, fucking Shirou, and whatever stupid shit inevitably happens when Sieg Decides to show up and run her over with his bullshit plot protag powers.

Zero she couldn't really do much to Gil or Saber, Caster could take her with his NP, but that involves him getting it off since shes a fairly decent fighter in her own right, and Berserker can go depending on if her master fucking sucks or not cause Kariya sucks donkey shit.

F/SF she gets rekt by absolutely god damn everyone because F/SF is pretty much the most bullshit Grail war to date, with everyone in there being absolutely bullshit. its really bad when gilgamesh might not win it even if he spams the ever living shit out of EA, since at least one other servant can straight up counter it, another can steal it, a third one could straight up mind control him, whatever stupid shit Dumas is doing, Richard shitting excaliblasts everywhere, Etc......

>>160420638
sorry forgot, In Apoc Achilles should have and would have run roughshod over every single person there if it wasn't for shenanigans going on, and that would have put medusa down too.

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>>160420553
of course he did, he is /our/ guy

>>160418248
>EMIYA used Rho Aias to stalemate it.
rho arias blocked it IIRC, how is that a stalemate?

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>>160420780
He's the best

Shinji, please stop posting.

>>160420846
Rho Aias broke and he barely survived

>>160420903
sounds like a good trade since gae bolg should always pierce your heart

>>160412153
Zero and UBW.

>>160417128
>Weak servant has to use ME to become equal to other Servants at the cost of sanity.
I never understood why they bothered to summon shiters (using a catalyst) into the berserker class instead of going for a random summon

>>160421063
still not what thrown gaybulge does.

>>160420780
Dude

>>160421063
>Always pierces your heart
>Never actually pierced anyone's heart

>>160421192
Well, his own

>>160420638
I think she has at least some chance against Zealot or Jack

>>160421192
he does get shirou so we know lancer can kill high school chuunis

>>160421192
He actually killed the stronger servant with Gae Bolg himself

>>160421432
Lancer isn't even fourth in power ranking when it comes to Fate servants.

>>160421265
Zealot has more NP's then people can shake a stick at while doing multiple of the at the same time and Jack in F/SF can actually do his multiple clones while each of them set off his NP like he did against archer herc, those two in particular would simply just be bad matchups.

>>160421265
She automatically meets 2 of the 3 conditions for Maria the Ripper, and considering fights take place at night that clears the 3rd.

>>160421526
True, but I forgot about Prelati, I think it's mostly utility so she could beat it

>>160421644
Does she have enough magic resistance to deal with grand illusion? If so then she's probably one of the few who can, otherwise she's probably not gonna be able to touch either of them before something bad happens to her through some other servant. She can probably beat down the amazon queen easily though.

>>160421778
Well Prelati is A + in magic I think, and he has a B rank passive buff to all his magic, so I think he can get through most resistances, it worked on True Archer who has an A in magic resistance

>>160419707
>SF
She can beat Hippo and Edison
>Apoc
She can only beat the Berserkers and Casters tho

>>160422195
Most anybody can take down Vlad if he is goofy enough to go full vamp though.

>>160422457
Vlad only goes full vamp when ordered to or summoned as such.

>>160419988
>Probably couldn't beat him directly, but if she's smart she could just kite around him until he kills Kariya through mana drain.
>Also pegasus > jet
Lancelot has C rank MAG if I remember correctly, this means instant pretrification.

>>160414004
Didn't EMIYA (Assassin) won in one of FGO's story segments?

>>160420314
Lancelot should be lower if it's pure power. All his tricks are DEX based. KoH obviously, and Arondight is a boost to outfuckingskill the foe, not a singular blast of attack power and Medusa should be about equal with Cu.

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>>160421192
>Never actually pierced anyone's heart

>>160411991
this one