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Let's be honest, F/Z was fucking excellent.

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Let's be honest, F/Z was fucking excellent.
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>>159629622
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>>159629622
No
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>>159629622
Yes
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>>159629754
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>>159629622
>people say fate has good fights
>people say you should start with this
>4 eps in, no idea wtf going on, no good fights
>ends, no idea wtf going on, no good fights
Am I just to stupid or did I do it wrong?
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>>159630152
The original Light Novel was a "prequel" intended for people that had already read the original VN.
There were good fights though.
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>>159630152
you unfortunately have to read the original for it to make total sense
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I want to see Sensha Otoko
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There were a couple low points in the writing, but for the most part yes this was far, far above average for an anime. Just excellent in multiple ways. Nobody's going to be talking about Ufo's UBW in [6 months ago]. But people will still want to watch Zero.
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>>159630152
It makes zero sense if you haven't read all three routes of the F/SN visual novel.
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>>159629622

unironically no
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>>159630445
lol what
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>>159630701
see >>159630152
>no idea wtf going
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>>159629622
It wasn't perfect, but I don't get the hate for it around here.

I still think the ensemble cast of adults in the city was a much more interesting take on the Grail war setup than another high school battle anime.
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>>159629622
F/Z starts out good, kind of shits the bed in the middle, then comes to an awesome ending.
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>>159630152
>starting with FZ
All my laughs.
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>>159629622
Only Fateshit worth existing.
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>>159631053
>mobagefag
All my laughs.
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>>159631053
what's so wrong about watching it without watching the rest of the garbage?
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>people watch F/Z for the fights
That's not why you should watch F/Z. And as much as I loathe F/S N, I do agree that reading at least the first route of the VN gives retrospectively F/Z more depth and is quite advisable. But F/Z still holds good even by itself.
You watch F/Z because of the uncannily low vision of heroism the show holds, you watch it because you want to see how far and how low people can go to achieve their dream. You watch F/Z because of the almost fujoshi cast that still bring interesting insight about people's desires. You watch F/Z because you enjoy poetic Schadenfreude, because you want to see characters developing or cumbling to dust in front of your eyes. You watch F/Z because it's reckless, it's edgy, it's emotional, and it's fun.
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>>159631340
Because the person I responded to didn't understand shit.
Just watch FSN by DEEN as the entry point. Because if you end up liking it then everything afterwards is so much better that you'll be pleasantly surprised.
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>>159631468
>just watch FSN by DEEN
No self-respecting person is going to do that.
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>>159629622
it was fun
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>>159630445
Yeah, no. You can easily read/watch Zero and not go anywhere near the VN, which would actually ruin a lot of the character development of people like Saber because Nasu didn't put in nearly enough work to develop anyone outside of the cast in HF. God, fuck anyone that keeps telling people to read some shitty VN like it's a requirement.
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>>159631351
Fate Zero improves Stay Night. I still think Stay Night is better but Zero shows the path of heroism Kiritsugu went down, namely failing massively and being just the worst person.

>>159631616
Zero has by far the single worst written Saber of them all though. Nasu develops her character pretty damn well. She doesn't get as much in other routes because she's not the main focus of them.
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>>159629622
Happy Father's Day
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>>159631351
Heaven's Feel is necessary for Fate/Zero otherwise you don't understand why you should care about the little girls.
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>>159631681
don't you mean Mother's Day
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>>159631616
WTF are you talking about, Saber was the worst part about Zero. "MUH HONOR" -- Urobuchi didn't even get her character
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>>159631616
Secondaries were a mistake
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>>159631673
>Zero has by far the single worst written Saber of them all though
She got fucked over in Zero. Not only did she get fucked over by her master but she also got BTFO by the other kings.
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It was cancer, brought too many secondaries into the series who considers it the only good work.
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>>159631673
>Nasu develops her character pretty damn well
>let go of your past to be some dumb teenager's wife
Why do you bother defending the bad stuff Nasu writes? He has much better works, you know?
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>>159630152
literally my first fate and i was able to understand what was going by just listening to what the characters where saying. feels good not being a brainlet desu
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>>159631552
Probably not, but there is some merit in it.
Maybe I'm just speaking from nostalgia and need to get with the times.
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>>159631717
Episode 10 was pretty good for this. Also, seeing a poor little girl in a sea of vicious worms is enough to trigger paternal instincts for me.
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>>159631863
It technically is out of everything that's in English
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>>159629622
I have nothing against FZ but god how much cancer it brought to the fate fanbase, as if the usual wasn't enough.
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>>159631896
It's on a different level when you know just how that little girl turns out when she gets older.
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>>159629622
I wonder if it's ufotable's fault that the anime is so bad, or the source material wasn't that good.
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>>159631961
The anime cut some stuff and didn't adapt the climax for some reason
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>>159631896
That's weird, it was enough for me to think she's spoiled and drop her like trash
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>>159631859
I love how people (idiots) manage to get "Iskander and Gilgamesh were better rulers" out of Iskander and Gilgamesh telling her she would have been a better ruler if she didn't give a shit and used her country to do whatever the fuck she liked.

>>159631874
>Connects to Shirou over not being able to let go of the past
>Slowly opens up to him because they share the same problems and conflicts
>Both decide to walk their own path to the very end because of the other even if it means leaving them
>Becomes his wife
Okay then
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>>159632048
Purityfags are awful.

>>159632099
Mushy shit is even worse.
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>>159632048
>worm torture
>spoiled
You had it pretty bad, huh?
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>>159631786
your visual novel is not that special
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>>159631673
>Saber losing to some random teacher.jpg
>Saber sodomized by caster
>Saber AKA King Arthur falling for some autist tennager
>Nasu develops her character pretty damn well.
Are Nasufags seriously this delusional?
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>>159632415
You don't get it anon. Teacher man knows kung fu. Kung fu beats sword every time.
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>>159632415
Shirou is a lucky man.
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>>159632415
What's with Japanese and their boners for giving things "grades" or an otherwise specific scale to base things off of? I've seen this a lot in anime and I think it's autistic as shit and really unnecessary
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>>159631786
The VN is trash even for VN standards, hell Grisaia is x100 better than F/SN.
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>>159631894

It's my favorite adaptation, it captured the mood the best, and had the best OP, it just oozed mystery and intrigue.

https://youtu.be/Qy7Q77ZD_ME
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>>159630152
I agree with this. Fuck Fate Zero fights. What in the garbage fuck was Gilgamesh vs Berserker in aerial combat. A fucking flying throne vs. A hijacked combat jet. This bullshit has no place in a sword and sorcery story.

Saber killing Caster with a getsuga tenshou was not compelling. It was flashy and well produced but held zero drama.

Any fight Gilgamesh is in is automatically retarded because he's OP and kills you without any struggle.

The only good fights are the first Lancer Saber fight and the Kiritsugu Kotomine fight. Everything else is well produced bullshit.
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>>159632689
meanwhile, in D&D
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>>159632842
1.5/10
I wasn't laughing at you until getsuga tenshou
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>>159632720
Yeah the OP rocked. I think some of the later episodes plots ended up getting really shaky when they tried to cram multiple routes in but it was pretty good before that.
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>>159632689

Don't forget their likes/dislikes, body measurements, what they had for breakfast, and the size of their last bowel movement. I agree, it's so stupid.
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>>159632415
I liked Saber in Zero. Thought she just felt like window dressing for the harem half of the time in Stay/Night.
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>>159632842
>The fights is what makes the Fate franchise good
Yeah UBW fights are so good, Mage aprentice vs Legendary mage, Kung fu teacher vs King Arthur and Tennager vs Gilgamesh, it makes 100% sense.
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>>159632415
Souichirou wasn't just any random teacher. He was trained in an assassination art from a young age, which was specifically meant to counter someone's instincts. And he was magically enhanced by Caster.

Archer didn't rely on his instincts, but instead on his "mind's eye" which is why he was able to deal with Souichirou easily. It's precisely because Saber relied on her instincts so much that Souichirou was able to beat her easily with his gimmick snake kung fu.

I'm just paraphrasing something another anon said a few days ago
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>>159629622
Why is every single other fate anime so shit though?
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>>159633120
Most anime doesn't make any sense when you break it down.
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>>159630152
Leave! Nobody cares!
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>>159633152
>makes stats and abilities with percentages in the VN
>shit doesn't matter anyway because it's not a game
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>>159632720
that OP just isnt as good as UBW
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2 years later, am I still the only one who thought the ufotable Shirou vs Archer fight was total garbage, or have people sprouted working eyes?
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>>159633012
It is also common to include stuff nobody cares about or needs to know like character's blood types.
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>>159629622

Dropped it like 10 episodes in because I didn't like even a single character.

It's shit for teens.
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>>159633292
I think it was garbage not because of animation but because shirou should have lost
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>>159633358
You mean it's anime.
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>>159633152
So a knight trained since his childhood with superpowers and precognition is less than a teacher with assasin skills enhanced with Caster powers? Back in the times of King Arthur a random person was 4 times stronger than a nowadays person just saying.
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>>159632689
That's because Shirou is autistic.
The way of presenting servant's strength changes from person to person; some see different strength as different colors, some as different animals. Shirou just subconsciously likes when it's graded like that as if it's a RPG.
Guess it just ended up sticking like that for reasons since other people talk about "ranks" as well.
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>>159633289

I don't even remember UBW's ops it was just generic j-rock from what I remember.
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>>159633270
Nasu literally wrote a book about his DND campaign once. Dude likes his numbers.
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>>159633317
It supposedly tells you something about their personality or some shit. It's like nip horoscope. Pure autism.
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>>159633292
It could have been better but I think the Gilgamesh fight was fantastic.

>>159633376
This is the opinion of a secondary who doesn't understand why Shirou won in the first place.
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>>159633152
Souichirou won because shit writing asspull, there is no excuse for it.
>human beats a saber class servant in hand-to-hand combat
It just doesn't happen, The VN isn't perfect it's not a big deal. Shirou/Saber vs Berserker in the Fate route was just as bad.
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>>159633400
Saber was used to fighting armed opponents and didn't know how to deal with magic infused Chinese martial arts. They do say that after the first fight, she'd learned how to deal with him and he would lose if they fought again.
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>>159629622
At least it was much better than the current shitshow that is Apocrypha and Grand Order.

Fuck Apocrypha and Grand Order.
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>>159633745
How so? Losing to Shirou is stupid for Gilgamesh and don't bring out the "Secondary" bullshit its just and plain bad writting and Nasu should be ashamed for the mere existence of Shirou.
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>>159633814
Also Souichirou isn't using real martial arts. He's using bullshit super anime impossible martial arts.
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>>159633860
His plan is literally to exploit Gilgamesh's pride so he fights stupid. Shirou mentions a few times that if anything goes even slightly wrong for him he'll lose. You're one of those idiots who's been so indoctrinated by power levels that they can't appreciate someone winning a fight for reasons apart from being buffer then the other guy.
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>>159633855
I hate fun: the post.
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>>159633860
Gilgamesh losing to Shirou was okay. Not great, but sensible enough to give it a pass. The weapons made by Gates of Babylon were only a little stronger individually than their copies made my Shirou's reality marble, but Gil lost because his NP took time to bring the weapons out while Shirou's were already there in the reality marble. Plus, Shirou was exploiting Gil's pride to get him to fight recklessly
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>>159633814
>Saber was used to fighting armed opponents and didn't know how to deal with magic infused Chinese martial arts.
What is weapon adventage, ffs the people who defends F/SN are autistic af.
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>>159633860
You should specify who you mean by Archer. The reason Gilgamesh lost to Shirou was because he was toying with him the whole time and not taking the fight seriously BECAUSE Shirou is just some human kid and didn't realize that Shirou used paradox hacks to basically become Archer Emiya during their fight and was hooked up to Rin who's basically a magical V8 engine whereas before Shirou was pedalling a bike so to speak.
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>>159633745
Yeah, the GIl fight wasn't bad. I actually like ufotable's Emiya a lot, plus Shirou using Rho Aias in UBW is a lot cooler when you realize that Archer was the one who used Rho Aias while Shirou was chanting his poem.

Anyway I still can't get over why Archer used UBW against Shirou when he had little mana to spare, and also why Avalon instantly restored Shirou to full health, trivializing the sheer desperation to win that we felt much more in the VN.
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>>159633867
This too, everyone likes to call Shirou a sword autist but Souichirou is literal autistic fighting savant who moves with same degree of perfection as Assassin Koujirou Sasaki.
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>>159633930
>Shirou mentions a few times that if anything goes even slightly wrong for him he'll lose
Wow, so incredible...

You should be ashamed for your post
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>>159633120
They at least were more interesting.
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>>159631880
This, Fate/Zero is not difficult to understand
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>>159633860
>Losing to Shirou is stupid for Gilgamesh
Ultimately, Gilgamesh's problem is that he is too strong. Has the most powerful NP, most ancient and powerful version of all NPs, King of everything, King of Heroes, First Hero.

It's like Aizen. The only way to defeat such a character is using bullshit or stupidity.
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>>159631880
Yeah, I think the only thing I was fuzzy on was why the grail was evil in the end.
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>>159629622
I watched Fate/Zero when it first came out. I really liked it. It was really easy to understand, because I paid attention to the infodump episode. And I thought that the tragic ending was neat. Last year, I discovered that it is a prequel to F/SN (I also had a long no-anime period between the two, so that's why I didn't find out sooner). So I watched UBW and it was garbage. Flashy, incomplete garbage and a terrible adaptation. I really disliked it. Then I watched the Deen version. I liked it a small bit more. After that I met the fate fanbase and it soured my opinion of the fate franchise (even Zero). Then I tried reading the VN, but my PC got fucked and I didn't even finish the first route (I didn't like it anyway). I didn't even bother to download it again. Now I just consider fate to be a mediocre franchise with a shitty fanbase.
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>>159629622
Not that great and worse than their UBW adaptation.
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>>159632689
Because then the powerlevel fags can jack off to it and have their fantasy fights.
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>>159635025
>The Einzberns, tired of losing out on reclaiming the Third Magic, subverted the usual system in an attempt to summon the Zoroastrian god, Angra Mainyu. They obtained Avenger, which replaced the Berserker-class, but he was a weak Servant without any abilities.

>...

>The ritual ended in failure, but Avenger, Angra Mainyu, was absorbed and the Greater Grail was contaminated. Up until that point, only true Heroic Spirits were summoned, but that contamination allowed for "something other than a Heroic Spirit" to be summoned during later Holy Grail Wars.
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>>159632720
OP 2 is better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V47Q8ir79eE
It has a cooler melody, better singing, a nice beat and it was #3 in my old top 100 anime openings.
>>
it was. /a/ just pretends to be contrarian. just wait till the Made in Abyss anime blows up or Helck gets an adaption. you'll all turn on it just like you did One Punch Man despite both being /a/'s fucking precious child for the oast few months
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>>159634898
If secondaries are butthurt about Shirou beating Gil and Shirou doesn't even actually kill Gilgamesh, I can't wait for HF to come out and they see their golden boy get his shit wrecked by the goddess of purity, chastity and benevolence Matou Sakura
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>>159635028
F/Z fags in a nutshell
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>>159635028
>Now I just consider fate to be a mediocre franchise with a shitty fanbase.
Pretty much.
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>>159635289
>goddess of purity, chastity and benevolence
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>>159629622
Yeah it was
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>>159635289
>goddess of purity
I know you're trying to be funny.
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>>159635028
>Then I watched the Deen version. I liked it a small bit more.
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>>159629622
Damn straight it was.
It had the best waifu.
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>>159637186
She's even better in Prisma Ilya
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>>159629622
I enjoyed it, but that three-sword fist thing is goddamn ridiculous.
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>>159637262
You better not be shit talking black keys. You'll regret that!
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>>159637228
Still haven't built up enough courage to watch it yet. I heard it's quite lewd...

How many seasons are out so far?
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>>159629622

Fate Zero was indeed better than porn game retcon featuring teenagers with attitude.
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>>159637531
4 seasons and only secondaries are scared of lewd. Lewd has been a core part of Fate from the start.
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>>159637531
It's shit. The lewd can't save it.
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>>159638376
Let me guess, too much Fate in the Fate anime for you?
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>>159633762
>it just doesn't happen
But it does happen, it was made clear that under the right circumstances a human can defeat a servant.
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>>159629622
It was good yeah but I thought UBW was way better. F/Z had some serious pacing issues.

Anything is better than /Extra and /Extella though.
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>>159634082
>he was toying with him the whole time
No he wasn't, he tried to get serious once he was inside Unlimited Blade Works, but by then it was already too late for him. He admits as much.
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>>159633465
UBW's openings were total shit, generic as fuck. This illusion will always be good.
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>>159638599
F/SN as a whole continuously breaks it's own rules as a rule itself and shows that power levels are fucking stupid and meaningless in the face of strategy, coincidence, and situation.
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>>159638790
I blame DBZfags, people just can't comprehend anything but the person with the higher "powerlevel" winning.
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>>159637879
The show made my dick hard as diamonds but only the first season was any good. For all the hype it got Drei was pretty weak and Zwei was mostly shit except for Bazett
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>>159638695
Well the whole time they were fighting he was playing around, it wasn't he loses an arm he realizes that he probably should have taken him seriously but the battle was already decided by then. If Gil decided to actually use Ea against Shirou, Shirou would have needed to pull off an actual miracle and use Excalibur + Rho Aias and I don't think Rin had enough mana to support that.
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>>159638936
I'm only watching season 2 and three (torrenting them now) because everyone's hyping up this alternate universe Shirou movie and the preview looks alright.
Also I have too much time on my hands, may as well.
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>>159638886
>>159638599
I haven't seen the DEEN adaptation yet. Did DEEN really butcher the Fate route? These two scenes don't look all that bad.
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>>159638947
He wasn't playing around in UBW. He was swordspamming as much as he could but Shirou cancelled it out with his own swordspam, forcing him into a close up swordfight. He realizes that he can't win without Ea but by then it's already too late, since Shirou wasn't going to let him use it under any circumstances. Ea has a charge up time. Only way Gil could have pulled it off once inside UBW would be to use it instantly before the battle begins.
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>>159638947
>Well the whole time they were fighting he was playing around,
Only until Shirou got Unlimited Blade Works up.
The moment his Gate of Babylon was instantly countered, Gil started panicking, because that and Ea are his only tricks.
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>>159639079
I would go as far as to say that DEEN/Stay Night is extremely underrated. The animation wasn't great a lot of the time, but in key moments it was usually fine. The soundtrack is literally the best of any Fate work, and it gets the parts that actually pertain to the Fate route fine. The only real issue is the couple of things they tried to shoehorn in from the other routes. A lot of people absolutely loved it when it first aired, it's what got Fate popular in the west. 100 percent worth a watch.
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>>159639079
Let's put it this way.
It's the Fate route, except they tried to squash all 3 routes together, so at one point you have bondage Sakura while Shirou fights Punch-sensei and then Gilgamesh bursts in and starts screaming about women and children.
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>>159639094
He was playing around, he had Ea summoned and Shirou was shitting bricks but Gil puts it away because for him only Saber was worthy of seeing its power. He could have smeared Shirou across several parallel universe right then but decided to chuck a few swords at him for fun like a cat playing with a bug.
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>>159639226
He definitely was playing around, but once UBW is up that stops. He literally gets trashed by UBW, forced to try to pull out Ea, and would have gotten killed right then and there if he didn't get saved by the grail interrupting Shirou.
>>
>>159632415
That wasn't a random teacher. That was a autistic dude using a martial arts based around fucking with peoples instincts. Who then had his body boosted by one of the most powerful mages ever to servant level.

It was less he won due to skill and more saber went "What the shit?" And by the time she realized what he did he already punched her in the face with age of the gods magic tier boosted fists.

It's kind of like saying a trained marine getting surprised by someone jumping out of the bushes when he was drunk and shooting him means he was a better fighter then the person that did so.
>>
>>159639079
Butcher it? No, but it was kind of a shitshow of mashed together routes at certain points. Could've been a lot better if it were more faithful to the Fate route, but I'm not sure that they honestly thought they would be making as many FSN anime as they have now
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>>159639079
It was good for it's time. I remember /a/ shitting themselves over the Archer vs. Berserker fight.
Remember the word GAR?

I kinda want to marathon it with /a/ again.
>>
>>159639094
The big thing with this fight was that Gil was fucking around so much that he was surprised by UBW. If he was to stick his fucking armor on beforehand and didn't panic he could have just worn Shirou out via letting him clash swords with him until his juice ran out.
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>>159632415
>Saber AKA King Arthur falling for some autist tennager

This does seem like a legit complaint that most would just wave away with "Well, it's anime, of course some Jap autist is gonna get some pussy that's way out of his league" but you gotta remember that Shirou is a human/sheath hybrid and the sheath part of him is actually her long lost scabbard, Avalon (that she really, really liked), which is why he was able to summon her to begin with and why they have a such a strong bond.
>>
>>159639204
This. DEEN made Fate justice and created a generation of Saberfags. The UBW parts existed for the purpose of giving everyone some spotlight. BDSM Sakura was retarted but what can you do about it. There are several inconsistencies, it was QUALITY as fuck, but you can tell an effort was made.

The OST is what really stole the show
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKCCs9DNEJs

>>159639359
To be honest reading only Fate is pretty dull besides the fairytale romance with Saber. I'd like an Ufotable version of Fate but they just released the route on phones instead.
>>
>>159639580
It also helps that they mirror eachother, which is a huge part of Fate, and Saber still realizes that in UBW just by watching Shirou and Archer.

Shirou and Saber falling in love is like them coming to love and accept themselves.
>>
>>159629622
F/Z is the best because it has the best homolust.
>>
>>159639651
Imagine a UFOtable adaptation of the Fate route but instead of info dumps and world building, they pad it with flashbacks into Saber's life, especially focusing on the battles on the drama between the knights who served her.

>>159639695
And in Heaven's Feel, the route in which Shirou betrays himself and becomes someone other that who he was meant to be, they end up fighting each other to death. Like pottery.
>>
>>159639808
>Like pottery
>>
>>159639928
It's just a figure of speech, they're a diamond dozen.
>>
>>159639928
>>159640002
Careful with your words on /a/, it's a doggy dog world here.
>>
>>159640014
It's a mute point to state something so obvious. No need to make him the bud of your joke
>>
Why the hate for fate zero? I get that saber was a weaker character and it had some low points but overall it was very enjoyable. It also had a good cast of masters and I loved iskandar.
>>
>>159640002
>>159640014
I wish I could kill you just with my thoughts. Also it's nice to see that we've finally reached the level of pretentiousness where people actually start defending the DEEN adaption in regards to anything it did because Ufotable didnt manage to cram a 30+ hours route into 25 anime episodes. Though I get the impression that most of these people are actually Zero Secondaries who wanted more butcher and didn't get that out of UBW.
>>
>>159632842
>sword and sorcery story
according to who, you? FSN takes place in our time period, it's not conan the barbarian
>>
>>159640266
But you just don't understand him, Anon! There are swords and people use sorcery. Obviously that means it is a sword and sorcery story, right?
>>
>>159639490
>DEEN decides to go with the amnesia thing for real
>don't have to deal with UBW's edgemaster Archer
>he starts remembering shit
>he actually uses UBW for non-meme reasons
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOWAF0TNIXo

Man that episode was tight
>>
>>159640443
First time I watched it was when it just aired, and I was confused why Archer had a flashback of Shirou's face before he died, and why the credits were all Shirou-centric. And what the pendant meant because I forgot about it.
I came to /a/ and made a thread and had my mind blown.
Fuck those were good, ignorant times.
>>
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>>159635542
>>159637056
It's canon.
>>
>>159637879
>secondaries are scared of lewd
>Lewd has been a core part of Fate from the start
Yeah, only like once or twice a route and it wasn't degenerate lolishit.
>>
>>159640233
I think the hate is aimed more towards secondaries who got started with F/Z or tried and liked it after they were told it wasn't like F/SN. The problem with them is that they shit on the rest of the franchise and claim that F/Z is the only good thing to come out of it. To an actual fan who enjoys the different, varied series within the franchise, this is extremely obnoxious and cancerous behavior.
>>
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>>159641001
>it wasn't degenerate lolishit
Ilya even talked about getting her own Mahou Shoujo in a Tiger Dojo. And Heaven's Feel was way more than twice, plus it was far more degenerate. Dumb secondary.
>>
>>159632291
No one said that.
You're still a retard though
>>
>>159641156
How the fuck would I even know those details if I was a secondary?
>actually doing the Tiger Dojos
I didn't want to spoil myself because it said I wouldn't be able to "keep my characters" if I viewed the Tiger Dojo upon death.
Shut the fuck up, degenerate dumbshit.
>>
>>159641379
Too obvious.
>>
>>159640697
Nowhere in that picture you posted does it say anything about purity.
>>
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>>159641379
>I didn't want to spoil myself because it said I wouldn't be able to "keep my characters" if I viewed the Tiger Dojo upon death.
>>
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>>159641468
>ground zero for the grail curse.
>sits naked and triumphant after it all
That scene really made me laugh.
>>
I hated F/SN (the VN; didn't watch any adaptations). Watched F/Z later and it was okay.
>>
>>159641379
It's your fault for being retarded, the Tiger Dojos were just funny little shorts with Fuji-Nee and Ilya. Taiga even mentions how the bedroom scene with Ilya and Shirou was originally meant to be more ero-ero but they axed it for reasons. The guys behind Fate always wanted to sneak in lolicon stuff and probably didn't because they didn't want to alienate too many potential readers but now they have no reason to hold back.
>>
>>159641468
>devotion to the spouse
>>
>>159641567
It was because there was originally supposed to be two games, one with Saber and Rin routes, and another with Sakura and Ilya routes. But they thought it would cost too much and cut it back to one game and combined Sakura and Ilya's routes.
>>
>>159641526
Gil takes a lot of pride in having bathed with a curse that would fuck up most other servants but he comes out unscathed.
>>
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>>159641526
Reminder
>>
>>159641633

The reality is actually that he got melted down and then rolled a charisma check, which resulted in a new body. He didn't come out unscathed, it just can't corrupt him like it can others.

See, the taint always affects things, both human and spirit. For some it won't be able to taint them, but they'll get melted into nothingness or absorbed. For others, they can use the taint as power but it corrupts and turns them mad, like Saber and Sakura.
>>
>>159641191
you're implying we should read your shitty visual novel but we actually have time that we'd like not to waste
>>
>>159629622
Worse than UBW to be honest
>>
>>159643422
>implying Fate/Stay Night isn't a masterpiece
Yare yare daze...
>>
>>159630970
I mean both of these make sense in context, the second even makes sense out of context.
>>
>>159632415
I always associated Mister Fister with being similar to Lio Shirazumi from Kara no Kyoukai where he understands his origin and is quite literally super human because of it. He has sort of the same warped personality that people apparently get when they understand their origin.

His origin being "Murderer" or some bullshit.
>>
Is there a bigger autist than Souichiro?
>>
>>159635025
Jesus Christ is actually the devil.
>>
>>159644066
>ask Caster if she wants it gentle or rough
>proceeds to plow her before she can answer

No, in fact he's so autistic that his autism makes him alpha.
>>
>>159635025

Feels bad that the Einzbern are that wasteful and that your pic is not an exaggeration, they just dump them in a pile and let them rot.

The Einzbern fucked everything sideways, yet in all three routes, they get off scot-free. It's just baffling.
>>
>>159638790
There's nothing wrong with strategy. But coincidences that help the hero get out of trouble is pretty lazy.
>>
>>159645085
>But coincidences that help the hero get out of trouble is pretty lazy.
This is how I know you've never read a book in your life.
>>
>>159645432
And this is how I know you've never read a GOOD book in your life
>>
>>159629622
Of course it was.
>>
>>159645492
Coincidences happen every single day in real life. Instantly relegating something to being "poorly written" because coincidences are present is idiocy, not to mention that most of the coincidences in F/SN (Shirou's ability hard countering Gilgamesh's) serves importance thematically on top of helping the main character triumph.

Fuck off with your psuedo-intellectual critique and realize just because you have an inflated sense of standards doesn't make you intelligent.
>>
>>159645640
This, also nothing that happens is a coincidence, it's all already predetermined by fate
>>
BOKU WA
>>
>>159645787
BRAVO NASU
>>
>>159630152
>>159632842
>Fate Zero
>NO GOOD FIGHTS

You could have said anything bad about the anime except this.
Kindly kill yourself.
>>
2-episode kerry flashback and rin filler episode almost ruined the show
>>
>>159646946
>rin filler episode almost ruined the show
I don't know what you expected from an episode focusing on the token loli.
>>
>>159646987
I'd expect it to just not be there and for the episode to continue the main story instead
>>
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>>159639490
>>159640443
Fuck Anon you're making me feel really nostalgic, I remember everybody losing their shit with the necklace reveal

>>159639651
>>159639204
It nailed the atmosphere flawlessly as well, the DEEN version also has the indisputable best version of Emiya too
https://youtu.be/Zfx8-c63u0Q
>>
I just wanted Kiritsugu, Iris and Ilya to be a happy family and that faggot Shirou to fuck off
>>
>>159629622
Zerofags are cancer. I wish you'd all die slowly and painfully.
>>
>>159646751
Fights are one of the weaker aspects of Zero, on both thematics and strategy, it just has flash.

Saber vs. Lancer: Would have been better if Saber wasn't thinking like a retard
Rest of the Harbor fight: awkwardly done "hey I'm the next servant who gonna drop in, introduce myself, show off my powers, then just stand around". And in a 2 episode long battle involving 12 of the 14 Main characters present, not a goddamn thing is different than when they all entered it other than Saber's hand gimp.

Caster in the forest: meh, just them breaking through the zurg rush and never thinking to simply jump to his location and prana burst on landing/throw your spear while airborne. And they keep bending the plot to let Caster live
Iri and maiya vs: kotomine: meh, not much to say
Fastwheels: pretty good but it's too short. Fight's effectively over once he gets hit with the Springfield round.
Rider vs. Assassin. See my statement on flash. You have no idea how short the actual "fight" is in the LN. It's just to show off how cool Ionian Hetaroi looks.
Caster vs. Everyone: Only reason it wasn't beaten immediately is because Gil and Saber can't/ won't as a cheap way to manufacture tension. All the newcomer servants are written to not have something to handle it. And Saber's hand gimp was given just to be cured later for the sole purpose of trying to make this seem more dramatic. This is not good writing.
Dogfight: stupid, stupid, stupid. It's out of place and the mechanics aren't interesting. It just comes and goes, never to be mentioned again. Completely ancillary to the story. (As you may tell, I don't like the last two)

And so on. I'm not gonna summarize every single battle but you hopefully get my thoughts.
>>
>>159647555
You really didn't like Berserker from FZ, did you?
>>
>>159647437
You can just watch Prisma Ilya if you want to see them all be a happy senpai...
>and that faggot Shirou to fuck off
Well, guess you're out of luck!
>>
I feel sad knowing that if Carnival Phantasm were ever to get a sequel, it would probably be filled with only Fateshit.

Unless they chose to use KnK and Mahoyo.
>>
>>159647631
Not really, no. Putting my hatred of the final battle for what it did to Saber's character, he only has like, 4 appearances in the entire series, and 2 of those a being a supporting character in larger fights where he just gets his ass kicked both times. He's literally the Boba Fett of Fate; he the masked guy who barely says or does anything.
>>
>>159647743
goddammit, you made me hear it. Now it's going to be stuck in my head all night
>>
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>>159647814
forgive my spelling errors, I'm about 6 beers in.
>>
>>159647555
what the fuck, are you trying to stay F/Z's fights are its' best quality. I didn't like F/Z but the funnest shit from it was the morality plays that coincided with fantasy espionage. Watching Kiritsugu execute that flawless victory over Lancer and Kayneth was the best and showed deliberate smarts unlike most of the fights in this show.
>>
>>159647908
meant to respond to >>159646751
>>
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>>159647853
I forgive you, and mostly agree with you about the final fight. However, even if he lost most of the fights he was in he was still a badass while doing it. In the harbor, him avoiding Gil's attack to grab the weapon and smack the other one with it is still burned into my mind, along with his use of the pole against Saber. In the air fight with Gil, the end of it where the jet falls apart and he just jumps out of it with the canon is so cool to me. In the end, I think that his NP is awesome and it was great to see Gil get so ticked off every time they were fighting
>>
>>159629622
It was, but because it brought a lot of secondaries, it will always be regarded as shit.
>>
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>>159643707
Please explain how that first scene looks good in any context.
>>
>>159630152
You're a moron for watching F/Z as your introduction to Fate/Stay Night.
>>
>>159648347
He had a magical artifact that resurrected him from fatal wounds for most of the route. He decides to return it to its rightful owner near the end, as he feels he shouldn't be an exception to the basic fact that people die when they are killed.
>>
>>159648347
>Dies or suffers fatal injuries multiple times throughout the series
>Survives mainly because of magical healing sword implanted in soul
>Pivotal scene where they remove magical sword to return to owner
>"People die if they are killed...." is followed up by talking about how that should be the natural way of things, but he has defied that for too long
>>
>>159629622
It was the best part of the fate universe tbdesu
>>
is Tsukihime good or is it more chuuni shit?
>>
>>159648733
Tsukihime is good, and it is also full of chuunishit.
>>
>>159648733
good chunni shit
>>
>>159648807
Jesus Christ, that is a small head. I mean, not 80's/90's shoujo-tier, but still super out of proportion
>>
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>>159648917
The art in the manga is definitely spotty sometimes. I think it gets the tone perfect though.
>>
>>159649004
I never did read the manga, only the vn. That page looks pretty good, but from the looks of it the manga only covers Arc's route. Is this true?
>>
Kirei should have won the final fight desu

Literally plot no jutsu kicked in to save kiritsuga
>>
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>>159649091
It does, but it's far better than the VN version, and I liked the VN. Nasu has nothing but endless praise for the manga. If you like Tsukihime then read the manga.
>>
>>159649223
Awesome. Picked up
>>
If mages don't believe that hard work will do shit, then why do they bother studying and training?
>>
>>159649386
They're full of shit. Waver becomes extremely powerful later on.
>>
>>159649805
>waver
>extremely powerful
Anon...
>>
>>159629622

F/Z was great but in hindsight, the characters were too fucking stupid to even connect to. It's just the suffering that's well done.
>>
>>159639122

Why didn't he just put on his armor? You know his armor that can repel strikes from Excalibur that he conveniently doesn't wear for only this one route?
>>
>>159635274
I could never depsise Helck. Helck is the best.
>>
>>159650380
Because he plot requires him to die
>>
>>159641614
That could be interpreted as anything, most likely her devoting her time and energy to her spouse's wishes. Doesn't mean she doesn't take trains of black cock when he isn't around.
>>
>>159650380
>Going all out against a filthy faker
>>
>>159650756
We're talking about Sakura, not Saber.
>>
>>159650380
Poorly written story with a forced ending.
>>
>>159651198
This is nitpicking. Obviously, carnal gifts haven't really changed since the beginning of human civilization but material ones are a different story. Still though, she should have given him a sword.
>>
>>159634186
Archer was the one who used Rho aias? Where'd you pull this from
>>
>>159649981
Isn't he a master by F/SN?
>>
>>159655394
a master fuckboi but I vaguely remember someone mentioning that too. Probably best if you look at a wiki or something
>>
>>159651153
I never noticed that little detail. How he hesitates using it at first before saying fuck it.
>>
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>>159655394
>>159655449
Found it
>Waver takes on the title of Lord El-Melloi II, after the proper heir, Reines El-Melloi Archisorte, a young girl at the bottom of the family's hierarchy, recognizes his achievements, but only does so while letting him know that Kayneth's death was his fault and that he will have to serve her for his entire life.[8] He was the youngest Lord the Clock Tower had ever seen.[8][9] Amongst the twelve nobles who administer the Clock Tower, he's the lowest ranked.[10] He attains the fourth order rank, "Fes"
>>
>>159655449
>fuckboi

Waver ends up being pretty fit and masculine though.
>>
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>>159639122
This is just lazy writing though and a toal cop out. Hideo Kojima just made a super OP Villain and was to irradited from hiroshima to think of an actual clever way a turbocuck like Shirou could defeat him so he conviently made Gil "mess around" until Shirou just happens to beat him. Its fucking cringey to the point where Id consider Call of Duty:Black Ops 3 a more respectable peice of art.
>>
>>159655568
>His involvement with Rider changed his previous attitude, allowing his persistent effort to lead to him being called a professor. Known as "Great Big Ben London Star”, "Professor Charisma", and "Master V", he has been even named "the number one man female students would like to sleep with", among others
>>
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>>159655615
>Great Big Ben London Star
>>
>>159629622
No. It's a terrible adaptation, arguably worse than UBW since it butchers entire character arcs.

Read
The
Fucking
LN
>>
the fate series is fucking awful, zero is only redeeming in that it has an interesting cast of characters and good character design
>>
>>159655552
>>159655615
So he does end up being a master.
>>
>>159640697
It's called Irony.
The massive slut gets a pure [citation needed] goddess while the pure maiden gets a slut goddess.
>>
>>159655615
>Rider inspires him to drop the fuckboi look, become fit and slay pussy

I didn't realize iskandar also conquered hearts.
>>
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>>159655726
>pure maiden
>>
>>159655710
Yup, and a pretty famous and successful one at that. However, he is always still limited by weak magic circuits because he didn't come from a long line of mages and Mage Society's prejudices attached to that

>>159655742
He didn't conquer yours, Anon? He conquered mine
>>
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>>159655650
Its an interesting concept applied in the most autistic way possible. Imagine being a great king of Britain and some weird little nip ruins your legacy in the 21st century by making you into a chick in his weird cartoons.
>>
>>159655742
Its heavily implied that Waver acted as his male concubine. Macedonians, like Romans, were known to have sexual relations with there boy-servants.
>>
>Watch the first two episodes of Apo
>it's actually pretty good
>realize all the hate is because it has a more mature theme like Zero and also follows multiple characters

Can you SNfags just fucking get over yourself already? Something isn't bad just because it lacks a self insert and girl slobbering all over his dick.
>>
>>159655896
>Shirou
>A self insert
Secondaries need to fuck off
>>
>>159655920
>you can't hate a certain character
>if you do, you're a secondary
Sasuga shiroutards. Kill yourselves.
>>
>>159655920
Shirou might literaly be one of the worst characters in any form of media imo
>>
>>159655896
>>it's actually pretty good
Let's see you say that when Sieg comes into play and how you'll be begging for Shirou to come back after you realize how much of a terrible character Sieg is.

>Something isn't bad just because it lacks a self insert and girl slobbering all over his dick.
This is literally all Apocrypha is about during the second half.

Enjoy it while you can, nerd.
>>
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>>159655955
You can dislike Shirou just fine, but if you honestly think he is a self insert you either haven't read the source material or you have serious mental problems
>>
>>159655762
Tell me about rin. Why does she prefer old men?
>>
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>>159641468
>[UTW]
>They will never return
>>
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>>159656298
>they will never return
>>
I'm saddened by the fact that fate/stay night is its sequel.
>>
>>159632415
Thread is almost dead but I had to tell you that you're a retard. Kindly kill yourself.
>>
So is Fate Apocrypha good?
>>
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>>159655726

Actually, it's not really ironic, since Sakura being a slut is really a meme. She enjoys sex, but she doesn't really seek it out. Her enjoying sex with Shirou doesn't really make her a slut. If she was one, she would have had a rep at the school of banging the guys. Plus, we know horniness isn't the only thing the worms do to her body, see the scene where they started choking her to where she couldn't breathe trying to find magical energy. People joke about them, but those shits are seriously a living nightmare for her everyday, that she manages to stay composed is something pretty praiseworthy.

Also Parvati has many aspects, just like Sakura has many aspects. There is Kali, Durga, and many others.

A character being able to merge with a goddess as a pseudo-Servant means that the character is essentially the goddess reborn in temperament. Ishtar says that the person must be someone who could become the new them easily for the vessel to accept them. That they become the new god/goddess. Meaning you can think of Sakura as a candidate out billions to be the new Parvati.

So no, it wouldn't be irony, it's the truth, by WoG.
>>
>>159655896
Most people say that the start of Apocrypha is good though
It only turns into garbage when the self insert who has girls slobbering all over his dick is introduced and fucks everything up
>>
>>159659339
>>
>>159631880
>desu
>not a brainlet

Pick one and only one.
>>
>>159655645
Why are source-materialfags so delusional? It's not like the original is going to be that much better.
>>
>>159633358
Say what?!

You dont loved the pychopath murder duo?
>>
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So, so they fug at the end? Repopulating japan and all that.
Does shirou becomes mad max and goes wandering around the world?
will there be a sequel?
what's next?
>>
>>159633465
>>159638709
>he didn't like BRAVE SHINE
>>
Is FZ the Dark Knight of anime?
>>
>>159655520
Do you also struggle to notice a pair of jingling keys in front of you? Never mind, you're exactly the type of person who the Ufotable remakes were for.
>>
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>>159664437
Ignoring 'right and wrong', the manga adaptation is also excellent. It's simply a shame, though, that it is poorly scanned outside of ~3 volumes. Luckily, one of those ~3 volumes is Kirei vs Kiritsugu. Here, have a look:
https://mega.nz/#F!TswnzJSB!vypKZNh_Oev386QIPBvFoQ

I'm quite bored; I think I might dump it.
>>
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>>159668145
Yes. It even has a plane scene
>>
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>>159655896
there's that word again
>>
>>159665855
Shirou and Rin are little kids in F/Z
>>
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>>159655896
It has a black knight possessing a jet and fighting Gilgamesh in a UFO while a lovecraft monster is drawn into an alternate world of Alexander The Great's army before getting obliterated by a giant laser beam. Kiss my ass.
>>
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>>159671569
Was that supposed to be a criticism of F/Z because all of that sounds awesome.
>>
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I only picked up the series cuz I heard this giglamesh dude is cool or something but he was just all talk, didn't feel OP as people described.
>>
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End.
>>
>>159633400
>Back in the times of King Arthur a random person was 4 times stronger than a nowadays person just saying.
You mean back when people were malnourished and a lot shorter than nowadays?
>>
>>159673100
Nasuverse, you blabbering retard.
>>
>>159629622

F/Z was great, only thing wrong with it is all the fags who refuse to accept that it's better than the original VN.
>>
Gil vs Rider was disapointing as hell. I shouldn't have expected so much from this fight. Rider did almost fucking nothing at the end of the day.
>>
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>>159675168
That, too, looks better in the manga than it does in the anime.
>>
>>159629622
I want Kirei to fuck me anally
>>
>>159629622
It was. The only ones that hate it are hipsters buttmad that secondaries love it
>>
>>159631880
This. Zero was my first fate and made me read the VN. Now I like both and don't get why people are one sided. This is bullshit, you can like both.
>>
>>159668787
Well anon. No need to be a prick over something so menial. What, you think yourself a genius because you never missed it?
>>
>>159675168
That's what happens when Gil doesn't underestimate his opponent and uses Ea at the start.
>>
>>159675168
>I shouldn't have expected so much from this fight
You really shouldn't have. Not only did you already know how ridiculously overpowered Gil's NP was by that point in the series if all you'd seen was FZ, but it was very clear that he was also holding back the entire time. Plus, if you knew of anything else in the series, you know Gil survives the grail war, so of course he wasn't actually going to lose.Besides all of this, I liked the fight. It was better in the manga, but the visuals in the anime for Ea and the chains were cool, even if it did seem a little over-saturated with CG at some points
>>
>>159675168
Blame Ea.
>>
>>159678430
Is there a weapon that can beat ea?
>>
>>159678899
Another EA.
>>
>F/Z literally doesn't make sense if you don't read HF
>People watch F/Z and play F/GO without playing F/SN and have the audacity to get confused
retards
>>
I remember this autist sperging out about how gil is invincible and perfect at everything and that he could speak some ancient magic language that could dominate the minds of anyone including gods. Is this true fatefags?
>>
>>159679728
Yeah it's a thing. It's elaborated in Kara no Kyoukai though, not Fate
>>
>>159678899
Avalon?
>>
>>159680577
It's not really a weapon
>>
>>159680642
Well, by weapon I thought u meant noble phantasm.
>>
It's funny how people here judge zero for the fan base it attracted instead of judging the actual work. Pretty autistic and butthurt.
>>
So now that Nyaa is dead, where do you get your animu?
>>
>>159678899
Yeah, a sword. Just cut his arm off.
>>
>>159681368
I'm going to assume you're pretending to be retarded
>>
>>159681462
What's the point of saying "Rho Aias" AFTER he's already projected the shield
>>
>>159681268
So much this.
>>
>>159681518
Rule of cool.
>>
>>159671945
You cant catch bullets you quadratic nigger
>>
>>159684560
Not with that attitude
>>
>>159671436
literally not an argument
>>
>>159632689
They like it because RPG stats or some shit. You can see it a lot in isekai.
What I want to know is why Nasu decided to fucking give everyone grades that don't actually fucking matter at all as if this visual novel was actually a full on videogame where saving throws would matter or something
>>
>>159638790
I don't know why people bother thinking the rules actually mean shit when they break it again and again in different series like Extra or G/O
>>
>>159681462
I lost my shit when he pulled out partial Rho Aias. I don't mind admitting it.
>>
>>159630428
I found UBW far more compelling than Zero, it had a smaller cast so more time to develop them and the second season was paced really well with nice twists and fights.
>>
Why couldn't shirou look as good as he does as archer? Brown, fit and with an attitude.
>>
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This thread reeks secondaries and try hard newfags. It seems that the VN readers are gone from this cesspool. There is so much bullshit here that I will not even try to correct.
>>
>>159687206
tsukihime is better
>>
>>159686317
>Shirou
>Not fit

And he has a fairly snarky attitude internally, he just hardly ever voices it.
>>
>>159629622
Yes. Especially compared to how Ufotable and a certain director shat the bed with UBW.
>>
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>>159647555
So I just reread and rewatched the Cthulhu battle, and know what really stood out to me? They have the setup of a fucking kaiju coming to devour the whole city, and they decide this is the perfect time to have Kariya confront Tokiomi (and dogfights). In episode 14, there's literally only a few minutes of fighting the monster, the rest is all fire magus vs. bug magus and jets. This was the showstopper of the first season finale for god's sake
>>
>>159678430
If he really didn't underestimate him, that Enuma Elish would have just killed Rider on the spot instead of "merely" breaking the RM and letting him have the final charge
>>
>>159647814
>>159647555
You are super SUPER retarded.
>>
>>159629622
Chuuni/fujo shit.
>>
>>159687206
You don't seem to bring an argument to the table and now your post is disregarded. The only cesspool is the one you live in, cretin.
>>
>>159688620
If it was for anything other than grammar, elaborate
>>
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>>159688620
>>
>>159629622
It is kino.
>>
>>159647555
>Fights are one of the weaker aspects of Zero, on both thematics and strategy, it just has flash.
Having this opinion is fine and all but I just hope that you don't seriously believe that Stay Night would be any better.
>>
>>159689429
>>159688767
Kill yourself.
>>
Anyone who thinks F/SN has better fights as far as the anime goes compared to F/Z needs to be put down for having the highest level of shit taste
>>
>>159690666
>say something
"you're wrong"
"Why?"
"fuck you"


Still not an argument
>>
>>159690779
Your shit taste being so objectively bad requires no argument, mongoloid sub-human.
>>
>>159691615
>fat manchild angrily defends a garbage anime made for edgy 15 year olds
Embarrassing.
>>
>>159684560
He doesn't catch it. He redirects it. It was going to penetrate his heart.
>>
>>159691932
>>159689669
>>
>>159632689
They do this because the Japs don't know how to show someone is powerful or weak through good storytelling. So they'll tell you someone is really fucking strong or they have an AAA ninja ranking or what the fucking ever and then when their protagonists triumps everyone can suck their dick for beating someone 4 grade levels above them.
>>
Is Nasu a girl or a guy?
>>
>>159695409
A spiritual entity.
>>
>>159695409

both if you close your eyes
>>
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>>159629622
PURE

KINO

MOMENT
>>
>>159630152
>no good fights

What do you consider good fight.
>>
>>159696042
Perfect Cell vs. Goku
>>
>>159696042
His balls on a table vs a hammer
>>
People always say Shirou is the worst part of FSN, but Saber is so much worse.

FZ is automatically best just because it points out how shit she actually is
>>
>>159678430
The fight was litterally done in a way to wank Rider while still skipping a proper fight between his NP and GoB. The brainless front charge was stupid as hell.
>>
Did anyone notice shiro in apocrypha looks a bit like archer from fate/stay night
>>
You call her a slut and slap her cheek. She looks up at you, smiles and continues sucking. Why is rin such a good slut and prostitute?
>>
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The grail episode is pure kino
>>
How did Kirei win the grail if Kiritsugu was still alive?

How did Kirei gets his wish fulfilled when Kiritsugu was originally sought out by the Grail?
>>
>>159698818
Pay attention. Or just read the fucking source material.
>>
still can't understand kirei's character
>>
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>>159698818
kiritsugu refused to make a wish after the grail showed what would happen. and kiritsugu recognised the grail was corrupted and evil.

so kirei who was clinging to life was wishing for everyone else to die along with him.
so the grail accepted his wish and the explosion and fire destroyed the city.
side effect was that some of the black goo come on kirei and regrew him a black heart
>>
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I pity those who didn't experience F/Z threads
>>
>>159639204
completely agree, finished re-watching just last night, amazing

kenji kawai in the music department is god-like, just listen to "la sola"
>>
>>159701932
Were they that fun? Damn I wasn't interested in fate then.
>>
>>159641044
>To an actual fan who enjoys the different, varied series within the franchise
You mean the ones that sat through the shitty VN and haven't actually read any of Nasu's recent (or good) stuff
>>
>>159679053
GO is the new canon
>>
>>159629622
The Ufotable UBW adaptation was also a clumsy adaptation that gave many people the wrong impression of how things worked and the various characterization.

The Zero anime also miss out on TONS of internal characterization for Kiritsugu and Kotomine they had in the LN.
>>
>>159707379
Ufotable didn't even get the crucial details of many fights right in their adapations. To the point many of the fights lacked logical consistency.
>>
>>159633152
Kuzuki's assassination technique is supposed to confuse even veteran melee experts (even a hand-to-hand specialist like Bazett)
The major issue with the technique is that expert fighters can figure out the trick after witnessing it at least once. Thus he could only try out the technique once.

And Archer didn't need to rely on Mind's Eye.
1) Kuzuki no longer had his magical buff, and thus his attacks could no longer even scratch servants, which was why Archer didn't even bother dodging the attack aimed at his neck.
2) And even if Archer decided to defend himself, he have already witnessed Kuzuki's technique multiple times, and thus would be more than prepared for his attack.

>Q: If Bazett and Kuzuki got in a hand-to-hand fight against each other, who would win?

>A: If it's the first fight, then Kuzuki will win. If it's the second fight, then Bazett would pretty much completely win. Kuzuki could even drive Saber into a corner as long as his trick was kept hidden, but Bazett is also an expert at hand-to-hand combat thought of and developed by human beings. There's the possibility that she might adapt to Kuzuki's "snake" quicker than the Servants, who are more emphasized by their talent. However, since she might underestimate Kuzuki-sensei as being a normal person, Bazett could be beaten pretty simply.

>Q: Between Kotomine, Bazett, Kuzuki, Melty Blood’s Miyako, and Kishima Kouma, who’d be the top 3 in a purely hand to hand fight with no weapons or magecraft?

>A: I’m excluding Kouma since his existence itself has become a mystery.
And even if he didn’t have that nature, he’s like an athlete caught by drug testing.
Out of the four left, the winner in pure strength is Bazett.
If it’s limited to one match and a surprise attack, then it’s Kuzuki.
And if it’s the Kotomine from ten years ago, he’s stronger than Bazett overall.
>>
>>159629622
shitty LN pandering to frustrated teenagers. Grown ass men acting like manchildren in the anime, give me a break
>>
>>159649386
Its more about the quality and quantity of your magic circuits. + the accumulated knowledge and power from the generations of people poured into the magic crest.

Lineage is very important for mages, since it determines a lot of your potential.
>>
>>159697197
Honestly, Iskander is pretty overrated. He's the idiot shouting Leeroy Jenkins & only surviving out of sheer luck.
>>
>>159649386
It does shit, but the shit of one man is naught compared to the compiled shit of hundred of people, all of one lineage and goal
>>
>>159701932
bunch of secondaries making dumb statements and summarizes everything wrong with zero
>>
>>159696042
Kakashi vs Obito
>>
>>159710306
I hope you're joking.
Thread posts: 400
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