overpowered main characters

Stop reading LN adaptions then.

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>>159167541

> light novel

>>159167622

Unfortunately, most new series are adapted from light novels, especially anime. It's only going to get worse. 2018-2019 will have a great wave of more isekai adaptations than you've seen in your life, and it won't stop.

>>159167541
When was the last time there was a legitimately weak MC that didn't have some super special unique gimmick?

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>>159167541

> does mc get hit by a truck, and wake up in a medieval world? Or is he summoned in front of a king to fight a great demon lord?

> does mc suddenly have access to an IRL vidya user interface, with stats?

> does mc have the ability to steal the skills of his opponents?

> is the mc attending a magical high school, and does he have a secret ability that nobody else has?

> is mc a wielder of a katana while everyone else uses guns or european weapons? Can the katana cut through bullets or slice broadswords in half?

If you notice this in anything you read, it's probably going to be shit.

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What's more infuriating, an mc who's too good at everything, or an mc who's completely fucking worthless?

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>>159168039

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>>159168529
good point

>>159168039
At this point I would have to say overpowered, if only because it nullifies any conflict in said series

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>>159167541
To make it more fun when he gets bullied.

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The problem isn't the overpowering, but how it's played. These characters are either too arrogant or oblivious, which isn't fun to watch other than to teenagers idea of "cool" or manchildren self-inserting.

Then you have pic related and Saitama, for example, which have better personalities and are presented in a much more entertaining way. Not that hard to be better than irritating Gary Stus, anyway.

>>159169857
>Saitama
>Better personality
I think he has a boring personality and the show is carried by the other heroes/villians. But i do agree with you on execution of it being key.

>>159167541
>What's the point in the MC being amazing at everything?
Character flaw doesn't have to be physical, it can be mental too. For example, a character can be undefeatable, but also be a massive cunt. When you look at it like that, perfect WN MCs do not exist.

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>>159167541
>Some one will read this and enjoy it

>>159169804
what was her fucking problem?

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Sometimes it's just realism. Who will say that Napoleon was cheater?
Hail keiser Renhard!

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>>159170491
Love.

>>159169857
>>159169988
That's probably why I like lelouch and onii sama, since they use their overpoweredness to full effect regularly.

>>159167541
this one is the worst sample of self insert though, like legit disgusting, even arifureta is better than this crap.

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>villain dominates an overpowered character
anyone gets turned on by this?

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>>159170809
>beaten by a tag team of the two weakest characters

>>159170809
nothing will ever beat iihiko.

I wish we had 30 more chapters of his dominance

>>159170809
that arc was kubo tier
>MY MONSTER IS STRONK
>WELL MINE IS STRONKER
>WELL MINE CAN CANCEL ALL YOUR STRONKNESS
>WELL MINE CAN CANCEL ALL OF YOURS
>HAHA GOOD THING MINE CAN OUTSTRONK THE STRONKINESS
and on and on.

>>159170921
And then it ended with the good guys getting the destroyer to punch himself in the face.

>>159170899
Well that was the point, it was full-on parody. I mean, the fact that a character with millions of reality bending skills even exists, whatsmore gets defeated by a rubber band...

Medaka Box is just a big parody of different shonen genres that decided not to go humor route like every other parody.

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>>159169988
Not the first guy, but I do happen to hold the belief that a fair bit of Saitama's original charm was lost in translation from ONE's version to Murata's. The writing is more or less the exact same (at least until they started adding a bunch of shit for the anime) but if you haven't read both, or even worse an animeonlyfaggot, you'll never understand how the tone and spirit are fundamentally different at times. Largely in the fact that the fights weren't nearly as grandiose (if I remember the original Boros fight was only a couple chapters long) and the redraw has a totally different equilibrium to it despite being an otherwise exact adaptation. The anime takes it even further in this effect but also completely butchers the delivery and timing of many jokes and it just comes across as another action series trying to be funny.

But along with all of that also goes a bit of Saitama's character I think. I can't say just yet because he hasn't gotten to it, but I can't imagine Murata being able to convey Saitama quite the way ONE did during Garou's ultimate rampage, the whole ride was absolutely insane and I feel both Saitama and Garou were top-tier that arc character-wise, mostly because of how their interaction with eachother progressed and the tempestuous dialogue they had throughout.

After thinking it over for a while I've come to decide I think Saitama is a well-executed "invincible hero", because it's played straight but at the same time takes an interesting angle and puts a great deal of focus on the actual underlayment of the premise.

For comparison, a character like Kenshiro is basically ultimate kung-fu Jesus played completely and unabashedly straight but is still fucking awesome regardless of that fact because he just is. No overt complexities or depth but still cut from a completely and immediately noticeably different cloth that the standard faggy immaculate isekai self-insert MC is.

Like you said, I think it's mostly in the execution.

>>159171394
That was the best scene in the entire manga

>>159167541
American young adult novels used to have the same type of characters. The only reason they don't anymore is because nobody writes young adult novels in the US anymore because American children don't read and many can't. On the other hand, in Japan, you have people reading young adult power fantasies long after reaching adulthood in a sad attempt to escape their crushing depression.

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>>159171644
I selected it carefully. This scene is amazingly timed because it hits like a truck pretty far along once you've had time to concede to the notion Saitama is just a completely flat and hollow character, which as I know is usually what people come to think once the expansive cast of other characters start getting fleshed out and most find them to be far more compelling.

Despite that I still think Saitama is a great mc, not by himself as his own character but because of his role in the story and how well he plays off of said expansive cast of secondary and tertiary characters and all their individual struggles and philosophies.

>>159171689
>American young adult novels used to have the same type of characters

as someone who wasted a ton of his youth on YA novels, my ass

>>159167541
Its fun for comedies mostly.

But it is usually done very poorly.

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>>159168039

At least overpowered MCs are wish fulfillment power fantasies for people who like that kind of shit sometimes, and nobody really defends those shows as good (or watch it to laugh, like mahouka).

What possible redeeming quality would a show with pathetic MCs have? Enjoyment for masochists who vicariously enjoy being stepped on and insulted?

>>159172199
People have and will always love underdogs, when the pathetic MC has been dragged through the mud bleeding and broken, and he gets up anyways its a cathartic moment for the reader, in the sense of "if this guy going through all this shit can still make it, then maybe I can too."

>>159172199
Self-insertion is the lowest form of media enjoyment, for the brainless nothings at the bottom of society.

>>159167541
Assclass had Korosensei who was super OP and that was great.

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>>159172199
What an awful fucking MC. Subaru's autistic chuuni shit makes him extremely irritating.

>>159167541
Why almost all isekai series are also harem?

>>159172413
95% of isekai are self insertion garbage

>>159169857
I'd read a novel of isekai'd sakamoto.

>>159172283
this

>>159168039
>Twenty fucking years of getting shat on in every league he entered
>Climactic rematch against the Rival character
>The perfect setup
>The perfect narrative point for a triumphant victory
>Type advantage
>The fucking episode title teasing a win by ash
>lol he loses

Gary had a Cadillac full of horny buxom cheerleaders when he was ten years old.

Ash has spent twenty years traveling the world and still lost like a chump.

>>159172648
reminds me of real life

>>159167541

He failed though. She asked him not to destroy the training area and he destroyed some equipment.

>>159169857
The side characters make One Punch man interesting.

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>>159167541

> man gets hit by a truck, and wakes up as a baby in a wagon after a bandit attack

> the legendary wizard merlin finds him 5 seconds later, and decides to adopt him

> he's also trained by the most legendary knight in the land

> even so, he's able to chop trees in half with one swing, and create magic that even merlin can't

> he goes to a magical school, because his only flaw is he doesn't have any friends (lol), but instantly the most beautiful girl in the school falls in love with him, and the king's son becomes his best friend

> demons that can destroy entire countries fight him, and he defeats them twice, earning the national medal from the king twice, and worshiped by everyone

I've read some terrible wish-fulfillment trash, but this is self-insert mary-sue bullshit on steroids

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>>159171394
The adaptation had amazing character moments that the original lacked, too.

If I was an antagonist for some LN, pretty sure I would make the MC's life a living hell if I wasn't able to kill him immediately (kill him during his blooming her phase). I would probably got out of my way to antagonize him instead of myself and everyone who would have been his ally will be mine instead. No bullshit, almost everyone in this thread would do this is they were against LN protagonist.

>>159171394
I haven't read ONE, but I picked up Murata's and watched the anime and what you say definitely seems right in that they seem very different in theme.

The Murata/Anime I definitely felt like the emphasis was on the almost parody that the MC was boring. He has flaws, but they don't really affect his abilities, he's strong enough that you don't even have the opportunity to pretend to buy into the "but maybe he'll lose" investment. He wins because he's the MC, and in case that wasn't obvious he's also blatantly overpowered.

So it places more emphasis on the side characters, who do struggle, and who's struggle is more likely to matter because there's maybe some risk involved. I do feel like while I really enjoy some of the fight scenes, they kind of played against that parody, when Saitama's fights are as "hype" as Genos, then I felt it kind of confused the theme it was going for when Saitama is supposed to be the "Win" button.

My other problem was that despite Saitama being sold as "overpowered" almost every villain seemed to be strong enough that only Saitama can actually win.

>>159172199
There's a difference between "pathetic" and "not overpowered". The MCs are frequently overpowered thanks to the power of plot, but I always appreciate when it's the underdog fighting because he HAS to or Wants, rather than because "he's the MC". It's the thing that pisses me off most about battle harems honestly, despite establishing the harem to the be the fighters, they (almost) always give the MC some superpower that puts them all to shame at the end.

When the MC has to come to terms that he's weaker than his friends, and should step into a supporting role in all but the worst circumstances I think makes for a more interesting character. It also means that when they fight it means more, because it sells itself as emotionally driven / motivated rather than just because the plot demands it.

As for "pathetic"... most of the time those MC's are kind of dicks and deserve what's coming to them, so it's fun to watch them go through shit (when the show tries to force the viewer to be sympathetic to an asshole ruins it though, let me enjoy the douchebag getting his comeuppance once in a while, even if he's the "hero".)

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>>159172648
Ash beefing it will never not make me laugh.
The fact that he set up his own defeat and how many people believed that he would win is hilarious to me.

>>159173532
>almost every villain seemed to be strong enough that only Saitama can actually win
Watchdog Man dumpstered Garou. Also a we haven't seen all the S-class heroes true powers

>>159169857
Sakamoto is the type of person everyone will meet in their life, making them wonder how the hell can an imperfect planet can house such a wonderful person.

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>>159167541
>>159167916

any example of good ones. I genuinely enjoy overlord even though shield hero was my gateway to the genre

>>159173964
That's one of the reasons I enjoyed what I have read of Garou's arc. It was showing a variety of different heroes and villains fighting in variations of success and failure. I just feel like that might have been better served earlier, to get that little bit of world-building out of the way so it didn't feel like "here's an ogranisation of heroes, now here's constant world-ending threats that can only be stopped by the MC, and very few other threats." for as long.

In the end it's really personal preference. I can see the argument for it taking a while to establish it because we need Saitama to meet these other heroes so we can understand them a bit better, and also to properly establish that "One Punch Man" is the name for a reason.

>>159173532
>almost every villain seemed to be strong enough that only Saitama can actually win.
It's less that only Saitama could win and more that he was the only person in the area who could.

Most of the earlier villains could be smacked down by large portions of S-class, if they happened to be there.

Mosquito would have been splatted by nearly anyone S-class level, or even by Genos two or three upgrades later. The House of Evolution could have been casually wiped out by a single S-class, or a well coordinated enough group of A-class. Sea King was flat out losing to Genos until the loli decided to make herself a target.

>>159174143
well shield hero is genuinely awful

overlord, despite some flaws, is way better

>>159167694
though anime is trying to curb the OPness of its MCs (though Eru and that cellphone series doesn't help)

>>159174487
Yeah, you've got a point. I guess I'm still looking at it in a bit of a "meta" sense, where it's giving the "weaker" characters one or two 100% clear cut victories is better to establish their strength/skill than 8-9 "so close" moments (especially when lots of fighting stories hinge on having lots of "so close" moments anyway, and you don't really get well-written one sided fights anymore it seems). It really depends on the villains I guess, I don't remember exactly Sea King's thought process and how desperate he was, but I definitely forgot about some of that.

That's actually something I would probably enjoy, a MC who loses mostly because the villains play dirty and he can only run on so many contingencies and preparations before they find a hostage or something so other people have to handle it because he puts himself out of commission doing the hero thing.
>MC's the hero of heroes
>Parties up with people who are good at taking out bad guys because he can easily either save people or deal with the villain, but not both.

>>159167916
>does mc get hit by a truck, and wake up in a medieval world?
but I liked Mushoku Tensei
>Or is he summoned in front of a king to fight a great demon lord?
this trope only happens in parodies and edgy "subversions" never actually seen this played straight
>does mc suddenly have access to an IRL vidya user interface, with stats?
the .hack series and log horizon has a good fanbase (I'm not a part of it though)
>does mc have the ability to steal the skills of his opponents?
yeah I've never seen this done right (unless done by an antagonist) but I really wish there was a premise that does (I mean I loved video game characters like Kirby and Megaman that does that)
>is the mc attending a magical high school
magic schools could work if they delved into the school aspect both "Academia" series are a testament to that
>and does he have a secret ability that nobody else has?
this is shit though
>is mc a wielder of a katana while everyone else uses guns or european weapons? Can the katana cut through bullets or slice broadswords in half?
really I think it's worse when the MC makes a gun and suddenly it's the most OP thing in the world

>>159168039
completely fucking worthless

OPMCs are boring
but worthless ones are downright unlikable

>>159172044
It hurts that you're right.

>>159172283
but then you got people like Ash who remains and underdog until the end of time to the point he fills more disappointing than enduring

and then there's the harem MC types where he gets everything you want without giving the feeling of earning it so you get feelings of envy than comradery

>>159173883
It still hurt anon.

>>159167541
Is there even any light novel about hero doing hero stuff with cool party?

>>159173097
and that's probably another thing about the Isekai series, not just the MC's being OP but also the side characters usually being bland as hell and only regulated to cheerleaders after awhile.

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>>159173883
still mad

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>>159167541
I tried reading this and I couldn't after a while. I'm pretty sure the author self inserts and the entire thing is like watching a dude fold himself in half and suck his own dick.

>>159173883
so much salt I'm surprised there isn't a rocksalt pokemon yet

>>159175469
>fold himself in half and suck his own dick.
This is the perfect analogy for RE:Monster

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>>159175469
But anon the MC in that story is totally original and understands things on a much deeper level than anything else. He deserves to be the super duper best and get his dick sucked on a daily basis by reality. He's just that good!

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>>159175469

The author was probably typing each chapter with one hand, and stroking his dick with the other

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>>159168529
>Why not both!

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>>159175469
But that means he's big, fit and flexible enough to it, isekai truly is kino.

>>159167541
either
>overpowered MCs
>beta perma-virgin MCs
what did japan mean by this?

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>>159168039
Extremes are always unlikable.
Only a Master Writer can pull off either, one with a good idea of what strength and weakness are and the other with a proper Hero´s journey.

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>>159175636
Don't even fucking remind me of this. I thought the original concept was interesting it was like a darker version of kirby but then it turned into this rapey jerkoff festival of faggots.

>>159168039

Depends on why they're worthless.

>>159175469

You should read Arifureta then. It has just the right mix of edgelord faggotry, harem, and overpowered MC that knows everything.

>>159175886
>look at all of these characters and this big event and the main character's reaction.
>Okay enough of that, let's get straight to the ego stroking.

I... I don't understand how someone could write this without a shred of irony. How can somebody not realise how contrived and obviously self-insert this is? Most people self-insert on accident for the most part, but how do you justify writing this without asking yourself "I would feel great if X happened to me, so lets right it!"

>>159167904
Did they earn that gimmick? Or do they just have it?

I don't mind it so much if they earn abs are forced to grow around gaining power.

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OP MC's are fine if they're sidelined/a plot device like in OPM/Golgo 13. Either that or powerlevels aren't supposed to be important/it's a comedy or something where the power levels were never suppose to matter.

Bonus points if someone even more OP puts the MC in their place though.

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>>159175982
Wish granted, the MC is now a "Weakest but Strongest" MC. His Cheat/Superpower is Za Hando(The Hand's hands are just gauntlets to not get sued), but the villain can counter The Hand somehow until the MC gets a lucky shot and chops of the opponent's arms/legs. MC is a beta nonvirgin/loses his virginity early on with a Femdom fetish.

>>159167541
Is the same appeal as Twilight: Being super awesome because and everyone loving you always, except evil worthless people who either change (and love as is correct) or fuck off and die.

Isekai and OP MC is the Twilight of anime, up to the harem.
Prove me wrong.

>>159167541
To make the readers focus on other conflict other than powerlevels.

>>159167904
Samurai Flamenco

>>159176299
>Implying other conflict exist
Who will he fuck? WHO IS BEST GIRL?

>>159170895
Name 3 chinese drawings that do this

>>159176367
Medaka Box. That's all I can think of right now.

>>159176334
What if there is no girl?

>>159176413
Does such thing exist?

>>159176237
>Femdom fetish
As long as it's not overblown for comedy and just the occasional "Wow are you gonna let her treat you like that?" "C'mon it's not that big of a deal, just let it go." I'm 100% sold just in the hopes its not abhorently shitty. I would love to read something about a main character who just has some kind of weird fetish/kink/taste that isn't his entire character, but definitely adds something to his interactions with certain characters. (rather than just having no preference whatsoever).

>>159176334
Designated Heroine/Princess/McGuffin (unless she dies) > First girl > First Kiss > Tsundere > Childhood Friend >>>>> Reverse trap=Tomboy > Ojou >>>>>> Trap.

As is always the way. And so, Japan's taste has not gotten any less shit.

I just don't get why they always have to be godly OP as fuck and not just really good at something.
I reckon most of these stories would be tolerable if a guy was just 'really good at swordsmanship' and not 'greatest swordsman in 1000 years with hidden techniques nobody ever thought up and also he can invent soy sauce'

>>159175469
>start reading because of op
>mc doesn't chant like everyone else because it would be embarrassing
>AIR JET
A+ writing

>>159176468
It'd be pretty great to see one go the "Chosen hero" routine, only for the MC to try to create modern amenities before realising he doesn't know how and if he keeps wasting his money experimenting he's going to be homeless. So he should probably deal with the chosen hero shit so he doesn't go broke.

>"Haha, wait, I know exactly what would make this food better!"
>Proceeds to fuck up making some kind of sauce/spice/seasoning because he never actually learnt how.
>"Maybe I should have read up on this stuff, BEFORE I was transported to a fantasy world without modern amenities."

>"Hehe, I'll just shear this sheep and make a comfy pillow!"
>"Why is this so uncomfortable?!"

>>159176236
boring

>>159176879
We are in a post-modernist, post-deconstruction world. We have unlimited access to older media, we are now in a reconstruction face where we want some old, straight and not "look, I know the tropes, wink wink" plot and characters.
I hear your suggestions.
>Well, he sees the world as a video game, and he is aware of video game cliches and use them at his advantage
Stop there.

>>159167916
did the entire basis of the story get explained in 1 chapter, instead of character and world building?

>>159176879
you are boring

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Kenshiro's great because he's OP. He used to be a pansy that wore sleeves, now he's a super buff badass. His seriousness is something that you don't see in a whole lot of MCs, and all he wants to do is help others and fight bad guys respectfully. There's nothing better than seeing some smug hooligan getting his ass beat by a guy half his size, but even HnK knows when to mix it up with worthy foes like Souther and Rei. It's just a simple, entertaining story about justice in a cruel world.

>>159176879
>>>/narutoforums/

>>159176236
New 4 cut hero out somewhere?

>>159167541
Because the source material is like that. I read quite a number LN's abd its very rare to find one that is well balenced.

>>159173532
>>159169988
Saitama isn't supposed to be a character that makes you interested in him in a big aggressively detailed sense, he's just an everyman character who somehow is also an extraordinary figure. But the fact of this, the everyday ennui that is typical to people of about his age, makes him a better character to empathize with.

>>159173229
You can always tell which bits ONE was personally involved in.

>>159176236
Season 2 is out already?8

>>159174400
Nah, I agree. It shows that this was ONE's first big narrative work, and the earlier stuff (e.g., the stuff that's already adapted to anime) is far inferior to what he's worked on since.

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>>159169857
Sakamoto is Gary Stu done right.
And pic related is underdog done right.

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>>159170809

>>159172199
So, Kaiji vs Akagi?

>>159168039
The best MCs are a mix going by Sanderson's second law: Flaws>Power

A character's weaknesses are what make them interesting, but having them be completely worthless is also bad.

>>159176017
>can't handle rape

The kiddy threads are over that way >

>>159178765
wow, you´re so edgy senpai

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>>159167541
This manga reminds me of 'rationalfics' as the westerners call it. Is this the Japanese HPMOR of our times?

>>159179310
fuck man I unironically enjoyed hpmor and now that I look back I realize that so much of it has the same qualities as many shitty isekai

I feel violated

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>MC is the best on his speciality
>He is shit it everything else

>>159172199
After reading Pact, it made me realize unlikeable underpowered main characters are far more unfuriating than unlikeable overpowered characters.
I suspect this is why I hate re:zero as well.

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>>159167541
No, it's the complete opposite. UNDERPOWERED main characters are the problem. The point of adventure/battle series is to see the hero beat the bad guy and save the day. But too many series give the villains plot armor and literally bend over backwards so that the antagonist always has one more keikaku doori up their sleeve. If the good guy is constantly getting beat up, it's a bad series.

>BUT MUH REALISM

In real life, the greatest soldiers in history won 100% of the time. There's no such thing as losing in war. You win or you die. It's REALISMfags who are advocating something unrealistic. Heroes should win the majority of the time, and villains should lose the majority of the time.

>>159180528
Subaru has some pretty shit moments during the first 2 arcs, but by the 3rd arc after Rem confesses he really pulls his shit together.

>>159179310
>>159179717
Liking media is an experience in novelty.

As children grow up, they are told the normal stories, the stories that are traditional, have a normal protagonist, and tell a simple story with a simple moral. The hero saves the princess, the band of students save the school, friends learn what friendship is really about. Then they get tired of them.

At this point, probably in one's teens, they are more likely to gravitate to mature media or stuff that is more specific to their eventually budding tastes. This is where you see edge, wish fulfillment, self-insertion, and binging. You've got the murder porn, but you've also got the porn where readers purposefully imagine their perfect plan for what they would do in the story, not realizing that stories have points besides completely optimizing victory over the setting. Then they get tired of it and even moreso critical. If you've had history with /tg/, HFY is a pretty good example of this phase.

Then you reach the jaded phase. Where one realizes that most they read is trash. These people look to those that subvert and purposefully defy expectations. Here, you start seeing humor-focused works that play off one's experience with the genre like Konosuba. These play into one's criticisms of the genre and while somewhat more self-aware, is also fairly self-indulgent in one's ego. People eventually realize that, but then that starts them on the path of wondering what makes a story good. Here they look back on what they liked over their life.

Finally, you hit the loop around. You start liking the stories from your childhood that follow the proper and time-tested format. You appreciate the normal tropes again and cheer when the story wants you to cheer, taking the story for what it is rather than pointlessly complaining about how it doesn't agree with one's preconceptions. Here you see things like Girls Und Panzer and Kemono Friends. While they might seem like outliers, they're very traditional stories.

>>159167541
Kuro no Maou

>>159180660
In real life soldiers are pawns don't matter. There are no powers in real life, so the strongest and fastest person on earth is only marginally better than an average dude - they will die after a couple of shots. Tacticians and economy win wars.

>>159181311
That's more or less true for modern grunt soldiers, but the further back in time you go, the more real champions were. A 6'4" monster on the battlefield was a legitimate threat, back when people were fighting with bronze weapons.

Also, you're ignoring specialized combatants, like snipers and spies.

>>159167541
I didn't realize that moon runes are actually good as a magical rune

>>159180660
You're too retarded to comprehend fiction. What you're calling plot armor is simply the armor using the law of improbability and choosing ,from some perspective, the less probable outcome. You have read/watched jackshit if you spout opinions like
If the good guy is constantly getting beat up, it's a bad series.

>>159167541
Thank you OP for showing this manga to me. I really like this shit.

>>159174143
>any example of good ones.
Post it.

Lazy King is an example of an OP MC done right.
>Powers come from Sloth
>Sloth Tree gives enhanced defence and vitality so attacks are virtually ineffective
>Lazed around so much that he's built up an extreme amount of sloth energy
>Lazed around too much as now he's a demon lord of Sloth, he is forced by his soul core to laze even when he doesn't want to.
The story doesn't focus mainly on the Sloth lord because all he does is laze around. That just makes the moments where he does stuff all the better

I like it when overpowered characters has this complex about how strong they are
Like damn, having the 'World of Cardboard' for the MC or when he cant literally survive everything other than others

>>159181870

The greatest and most powerful human being will still die with a arrow in his throat.


The "age of heroes" never happened, while we did get some great man who were capable of doing amazing feats, "champions" of the battlefield were not exactly a thing, good planing and foresight won the day 99% of the time.

A good general is indispensable if you want to win wars, soldiers can simply be replaced over and over again.

>>159174143
Both of the one you cited are shits and if you like them you don't belong on /a/.

But you will stay here because you're a cancerfag and will enver admit it.

Have we reached the very bottom of the wish-fulfillment barrel? I don't think it can get any worse than the current fad.

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>>159182276
The problem is that people in this thread read that jackshit and think it's filet mignon. Here's the metric that the edgy, fedora-wearing jackasses on /a/ use to rate battle series:

>Did the main character win?
>WHAT A COMPLETE CROCK OF PANDERING FANSERVICE SELF-INSERT FANTASY WISH-FULFILLMENT BULLSHIT FOR LONELY NEET VIRGINS AND LITTLE KIDS THINGS LIKE THIS DON'T HAPPEN
>Did the main character get beaten up and his love interest get raped?
>WOW THIS SERIES IS SO REFRESHING IT'S GEMS LIKE THIS THAT ALLOW ME TO STILL WATCH ANIME AND READ MANGA I APPRECIATE AN AUTHOR THAT CAN ACCURATELY REFLECT HOW THESE THINGS WOULD HAPPEN IN REAL LIFE WITHOUT SUGAR COATING IT OR TURNING IT INTO A KIDDIE MANCHILD PIECE OF GARBAGE THE WAY THE CHARACTER STRUGGLES IS A DEEP WELL-WRITTEN REFLECTION OF THE HUMAN CONDITION AND RESONATES WITH HOW I FEEL IN MY DAILY LIFE SHITPOSTING ON A CANTONESE ONLINE INFORMATION EXCHANGE

>>159183187
oh theres worse, read Korean shit, most is how MC is the most handsome, richest guy that fucks all the women and is super smart.

Every villain is just average guy that is in a bad situation.

>>159167916
>is the mc attending a magical high school
This isn't a flaw so much if the writers just didn't use it as an excuse as to WHY the MC is OP. Because 'It's Magic, Ain't Gotta Explain Shit', and all that.
I mean fuck, *I* at least wrote a blank slate MC who went to a magic school actually studying his magic that left still weak in the grand scheme of things and I'm a TERRIBLE over the top as fuck writer who loves him some OP shit.
Problem is Japan's writing quality has gone down since being a mangaka is now less creative, more career because shit ass economy.

>>159176236
hey did someone rip 4 cut hero S2?
I can't seem to find anything.

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>>159168529
>has a main character so OP nothing beats her
>also has one main character weaker than everyone
>even a villain whos weaker than the main character but still the biggest threat
i miss medaka box

>>159167541
I read thin a few weeks ago
The most boring manga i've ever read
What's even the point of reading through if it's already established early on that he's the most powerful being in the world
He's even capable of making a literal plot armor for himself and his friends

>>159167904
Konosuba? Kazuma has high luck but it doesn't even do anything

>>159167541
The best MC are the MC with actual progression. But to answer your question, MC being overpowered is only good in a comedy like setting. For example, Ore to kawazusan and One Punch Man. Both of them for me are good. I've tried to read other things with OP MC but it really hurts when they take it too seriously. Even the slight comments about how they are so strong and with just a flick of a finger they can destroy anybody just annoy me to hell. Another example, a manga about a slime something and the one where the MC got sent to another beautiful world by a moon god or something. It's comedic a bit but then they take it too seriously. I can't stand that.

>>159184939
Isn't the "joke" that his high luck does a lot... like keep him and his mentally deficient incompetent teammates alive?

Pretty sure there's a segment where he goes off on his own and his luck lets him get away with some insane shit.

>>159182722
>good planing and foresight won the day 99% of the time.

Bullshit. The factor that reliably trumped everything else since the dawn of time was quality of soldiers. The age of muskets and rifles when a green recruit may be even worth a half of an experienced career soldier, is an outlier which may already be over, as costs of equipping a modern fighting force rise prohibitively. Planning does not count for shit, when the enemy routs your troops with a simple frontal charge every fucking time.

>"champions" of the battlefield were not exactly a thing,

In fighting, like in any field you care to mention, 20% of people do 80% of work. But that is assuming everyone has equal tools and, and at least an opportunity to get a comparable amount of training and preparation, which again was very rarely the case until late XVII century. Elites usually had way better armament and training, so the amount of weight they pulled was even more disproportionate. As wars mostly consisted of sieges, foraging, raids, and skirmishes, with battles where even a few thousands men lined up against each other in an open field being rare, a small handful of exceptionally talented people could easily decide the outcome.

>A good general is indispensable if you want to win wars, soldiers can simply be replaced over and over again.

No, usually they couldn't.

>>159182722
http://www.badassoftheweek.com/yadav.html
You were saying?

>>159185015
Are you talking about the one where the MC gets isekaid and the god of beauty that runs the other world sees him and goes "Nah, I'm not giving you any buffs like language or anything. You're ugly, go hang with the orcs and monsters in the fucking deadlands and don't fucking bother the attractive people, and please die". Did that ever go anywhere? When I stopped he had just made it to the border town and was annoyed that everything was so expensive.

>>159167541
So reader can focus on other aspects of novel. Like sao

>>159185676
He became a merchant and then suddenly went grimdark shit. I don't mind that but when they actually throw away the comedic part and weng serious I dropped it.

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>>159167916
>does he have a secret ability that nobody else has?
Kono Sekai ga Game da to Ore dake ga Shitteiru does this well, because his "powers" are just bugs in the game world that nobody in that game world knows how to exploit.
>is mc a wielder of a katana
his first weapon is a mid-game katana that he skips the quest for, and the katana itself is wrongly classified as a greatsword so it has a hitbox twice its length and damage way above its class. He uses it to dig holes more than fighting.

Is there a character that is more of an asspuller than Ban Mido?

>>159185950
???

>>159169804
Now this is a well done bad ass MC.

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>>159167541
Overpowered MCs usually end up making the other people in their series more interesting. Like in Fist of the North Star, I liked Kenshiro but I liked Raoh, Toki, Shuu, Souther, Fuudo, Juuza and a few other guys a lot more because they ended up getting more development than Ken simply because everyone in the end would get fucked by him. Raoh is the real MC of the first part of Fist of the North Star desu.

In series like Akagi or Golgo 13 it's interesting to watch how the MC will pull himself out of an impossible situation, and it's usually entertaining enough to make me want to keep reading to keep seeing how they are able to overcome more and more ridiculous odds.

Then in other things like say Crows/Clover/H2B/GTO/Otokojuku whatever you're at least guaranteed a few cool moments per fight/arc because of the over powered MC, but there's no repeat reading value to it if it's just about cool moments in fights.

>>159185616
what the fuck am I reading, did you play too much total war?

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no mention of one of the finest OP MCs to ever exist?

>pic very related

>>159172648
what episode?, havent watched pokemon since sometime in the 90s or something

>>159185950
Kono Sekai is absolutely hilarious. Wish the translations weren't so far behind.

And yeah, his only "power" is knowing most all the bugs to exploit, and he can teach most of them to others so it's not totally unique.

>>159184068
> Kumagawa can literally run up buildings
> he could equally fight Medaka physically without using All Fiction
Kumagawa is insanely strong. What the fuck is it with that "he is the weakest"?

>>159185676
MC is basically extremely close to commiting genocide. Everyone is trying to keep him from flipping.
Except the Empire, because they don't know better.

>>159167541
>What's the point in the MC being amazing at everything?
Inspire readers instead of turning them into conformists with the equally annoying "look! I'm a beta loser just like you" MC archetype.

>>159189405
There's something in between Gary Sue MC and Useless Faggot MC, you know

>>159188707
Because Medaka Box is not a battle shounen, it's about special needs child i.e abnormals growing up and facing reality. The fights are basically a gigantic LARP . Kumagawa plays along to try and ruin their fun, but he's still aware it's just a made up power that means nothing in real life, hence he calls himself the weakest.

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>>159180367
>specialized in bullying ugly children
>one shots magical fire Hulk

>>159174143
Sevens is pretty decent.

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>>159189605
Indeed.

>>159180660
The problem is in real life people struggle, they work hard for years in order to reach their goals. In real life talent is the bare minimum, not some shitty powerup that makes you good without needing to train.

So yeah, characters being too overpowered does ruin realism.

>>159185950
>>159188476
It's basically speedrunners the isekai. I love it.

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>>159167904
Pic related.
Nothing with a stick in his hands, manage to start a prison riot that eventually brought down a megalomaniac despot and convince the spirt of Earth herself to believe on humanity once more and gave us a second chance to live. He save everyone on Earth but he failed to save her

>>159190049
basicly batman

is there any anime/manga where MC is "side character" of the story?

esp when he is hiding several ace under his sleve

>>159192504
hunter x hunter
jojo part 3 and 5

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It may not apply perfectly, but looking back at Negima, they tried to portray this kid as such an amazing prodigy and honestly negi and the crew kept coming our on top but it was reaply balanced by how much they showed the characters worked for it, and how the the characters were actually given weaknesses. I think this is what makes them feel less overpowered even though if you look at it, its a standard case of kids somehow beating adults

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>>159168039

Sometimes, it's interesting if the mc is completely worthless and seen as trash, but becomes overpowered in secret. Especially if there's a revenge or betrayal subplot. Like in dungeon seeker (pic related), where a weakling is summoned to a medieval world with people in his class, but is tricked into being sacrificed in a dungeon and left for dead.

>>159194963
Doesn't he later become a generic, overly friendly loser who happily runs minor errands for far weaker people?

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>>159183104
>ESL
>Reddit spacing
Like you're one to talk

>>159198058
>Reddit spacing

Why are people still trying to push this meme?

>>159167541
I don't have a problem with OP MCs if the series is not about battles. For example Death March has the most OP mc ever but it's a sol story about tourism.

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>>159167541
Because sometimes it's interesting to see how MC can escape from a hopeless situation and laugh at these losers

>>159198276
Waiting for something new.

>>159187051
> end up making the other people in their series more interesting.
Yes when the author takes time to develop them and give them screen time.

Shit like Arifureta fail this hard.

>>159201849
>Arifureta
This had an interesting premise, what with the MC being a weaker class and making items but then the edgelord transformation happened and we got Kaneki 2.0

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>>159167916
>MC was summoned by a wizard to be his successor while falling asleep at uni

>has a user interface and an enemy scanning ability that he only uses to get the 3 measurements of women

>just invents spells at will with stupid restrictions

>has an ability nobody else has that he has never kept secret

>has a sword that he "wields" by enchanting it with auto-deflect and auto-attack spells then eventually gets bored of it and lets other people fight

Is Tarou confirmed best Isekai MC

>>159191784
He was an annoying little shit though.

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talking about LN examples
he is probably not OP, but i guess all rogues on grimgar are, just because of the oneshot-lucky line

I really dig the whole overpowered MC sometimes, especially if the mc is also smug/arrogant like
Rain.
It's simple fun, not everything has to be well written to be enjoyable.

>>159188707
He believes himself to be the weakest, thus he is the weakest. Also wasn't there that one moment Kumagawa went full on serious and just fucked shit up?

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>>159202317
>Introduces magic internet ti the iselai world everyone just uses it for shitposting.
This manga isekai is allright.

>>159188707
It is a thematic thing in the manga that pluses are "winners" and minuses lose despite their abilities. At another point it's said that the mc also wins because she is the mc.

>>159176236
Please give me S2!

>>159202650
He should grow a beard. Or at least sideburns.

>>159205270
Pay for it.

>>159202317
Tarou is great

>>159203745
Novel translations when, no update since fuckin january.

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>>159167694
>more isekai adaptations

>>159185603
no, the joke is aqua's bad luck counter's his good luck resulting in no-luck. the only time his luck comes out is when he's far away from aqua or he's betting directly against aqua.

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How to do over powered main characters right

can easily beat everyone, but most of the time is more interested in doing something else
there are other characters who can beat him, but it's due to him having a limiter that he can't be bothered to break
and most importantly is making him entertaining

>>159210600
>most importantly is making him entertaining
This is the biggest fault of a majority of isekai, it's not that the MC's are OP, it's that they're all fucking boring.

>>159197475
If anything,, he becomes far less trusting and friendly.
He'd be dead otherwise. He's already learned that once with the cannibal village. And finding people actually weaker than him in that dungeon is funny. Being OP is the damn minimum for that dungeon. Later on he has to literally get a skill that rewrites the laws of physics to survive the later floors.

>>159167541
>Too many light novel adaptations have these boring protagonists
Stop reading them. There, your problem solved.

>>159190657
>The problem is in real life people struggle, they work hard for years in order to reach their goals
No, they don't. You don't know anything about real life and are a piece of shit.
You can train for ten years and get beaten by someone who's trained for six months. In real lfie, talent exists. Superhumans exist. People who are better than others exist. And this is the same whether we're talking about war, combat, strategty, sports, science, or art.

> So yeah, characters being too overpowered does ruin realism.
It objectively, factually doesn't, and you need to fuck off back to your fedoracore anime.

A hero winning is NEVER a problem. A hero losing often is. Heroes are supposed to win. They're not supposed to lose, or at least not as often as edgy neckbeards like you want.

>>159212187
Too much time on my hands then.

>>159174143
Overlord has no one of there. That is why is so good.

>>159213826
Overlords die to marines and vikings all the time though.

>>159174143
>>159213826
>>159167916
I really have nothing but contempt for people like you.

>>does he have a secret ability that nobody else has?
That's basically the basis of all fantasy adventure stories for the last 100 years.

-The Hobbit
-Harry Potter
-Ender's Game
-Spider-Man
-A Princess of Mars

You basically need to stop reading adventure stories. Go back to listening to death metal and writing Berserk fanfiction.

>>159215083
>The Hobbit
>secret ability that nobody else has
Being skilled thief is not a secret ability.

>>159215332
A magical ring only you have that turns you invisible, on the other hand, is a secret ability.

>>159185950
I think one of the things about the series I like is that the hero isn't really thinking about making the world a better place or anything, just trying to survive since the world has a bunch of death flags and bad luck events. Not only that, but he's pretty much just abusing everything he can do survive and get an edge up in the world, but the world keeps throwing shit at him that forces him to keep moving.

>>159215083
>-Spider-Man
>-Harry Potter
Everyone knows he has spider abilities. And what about Harry Potter? The dude doesn't have a shit of ability aside of talk with snakes.

>>159215776
>And what about Harry Potter?
He can read the mind of his archnemesis, which is basically the only reason they won in the end. Also, he has a near-sentient wand that saved him once or twice.

>>159215776
He has the "survive voldemort" ability

>>159215583
>only you have
Not only he didn't get it as starting gear like most isekai protagonists but also he looted it late into the story.
This might be an argument for LotR but not for Hobbit.

>>159216177
The ring is worthless in LOTR, though. In The Hobbit, it allows him to do all the heroic stuff he does.

>>159215912
>>159215925
Well shit, the writer fucked it up.

>>159216394
What heroic stuff? I don't remember him doing anything heroic in the book, and the ring was definitely more useful in LotR than The Hobbit.

>>159168039
I prefer OP characters. At the end of the day 99% of most any story is gonna end with the MC winning, unless it's that one fight they have to lose to remember why they fight.

If you already know that they're going to win I don't want to spend more than half the manga/anime seeing these fuckboys cry and shit themselves so they can finally get shit done.

I wanna have fun watching them win. Shokugeki No Souma Does it well. You know he's gonna win. The most annoying part of that manga is watching Erina figure out how to fucking say "no".

But that's just me...

>>159202650

I fucking love Grimgar. Liking Ranta is suffering.

>>159216783
>killed the giant spiders
>rescued dwarves from elves
>learned smaug's weakness, which is the only reason he died
>stole arkenstone to help barter peace

Superman
Morpheus
Lucifer
Toriko

>>159218179
What about them?

>>159219957

good OP MCs

>>159220078
Eh they were alright.

>>159216394
The ring was the whole key to it.

>>159172283
Except you have to have a goal and a clear progression towards it for it to be good. Otherwise you're stuck with a wallowing characters who's just as stuck in life as you are.

>>159193712
Aren't most of the characters already magic, from special bloodlines or already super human in some way at the beginning?

>>159225326
I wouldnt really say most but even then its balanced a little by the levels of the things they get faced with and the mentioned fact that the characters have weaknesses and flaws. Negi being a stubborn kid is to both his aid, and his great detriment.

>>159167541
I really don't mind this. Maybe it's because I've read a lot of shitty isekai worse than this but I like how it actually has characters that aren't harem members or evil men for the MC to beat up. I like how he's trying to power up his friends. Plus I think the MC is kind of cute, personality-wise. Girlfriend is the most boring character in the series, though.

>>159221973

Alright is an understatement, especially in Morpheus case since he is the protagonist of the best novel in the 90's

>>159176582
Lore character in Overlord did this. The "Boastful Sage," who often talked about how people should invent fridges, hot plates, thermoses, etc. but could never explain how to actually do it. When he took over a country, he basically forced people to do some of them.

It sort of worked out, but he's seen historically as an eccentric whiner who just happened to be stupidly strong.

Also it's the initial twist in one of the Twilight Zone episodes. Guy time travels and tells people to invent a thing that revolutionizes lawn mowers. They ask him how to actually do it, and he's silent for a few seconds as he realizes he doesn't actually know the mechanics of it. They laugh him out of the workshop.

>>159213584
As long as the series is actually interesting I can tolerate both.

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>>159167541
I really hope MC microwaves Tomoki sometime soon, goddamn.

>>159230006
This nigger knows.

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>>159168039

Not really /a/ but goddam people hate Korra because she fucked up all the time. I liked her because she was so flawed

>>159173223
Please don't read that LN about the "Great Sage" who learns how to reincarnate himself because his "Crest" was the weakest of four crests. It's even worse than what you're quoting.

I feel like OP characters can be done well, but they shouldn't be MCs, and should have major personality flaws, but not as to make them annoying.

>>159185676
The MC literally becomes a god, earth gods come over and chat with him. But he's hellbent on bitchslapping that goddess even if it meant damning the entire world and it's inhabitants to hell.

>>159215912
>>159215776
There's also the fact that Harry Potter wasn't even really the MC of the story. Neville Longbottom was the one who would've done everything if harry had died or whatever.

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Anyone else reading Isekai Mahou wa Okureteru. Someone else picked up the LN.

>>159168039
Worthless MCs can be done good if the whole spiral of despair is done right. If it's just some fag who always gets his ass saved in the end by side characters, it's shit.

>>159173883
lol I was there, /a/ and /vp/ were both hilarious and painful to read at the same time

>>159167541
Is it too hard to ask for actual growth in skill? Can't they just start from the bottom and work their way up?

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>>159231328
Oftentimes they aren't really classified as overpowered for that since knowledge and experience would be classified differently generally.

There's always a happy medium that hits the sweet spot in some novels.

Mushoku Tensei's protagonist for example, is far stronger a wizard than your average, but far below the strongest of the world. He's in a just right position for it to be both cool and challenging at the same time considering the massive odds he's against.

>>159188707
He's the weakest because the plot demands he always loses.

>>159202317
Whats this manga called? Im interested but reverse image search and Googling Tarou isn't giving me anything.

>>159232591
Death March

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>>159232685
Thank you anon. I was just about to give up and sleep but now i have a new manga to read.

>>159232591
Ore to Kawazu-san no Isekai Hourouki. I just started throwing whatever keywords I could into google and "Tarou isekai manga frogman kawazu" finally got me that.

>>159232830
Lol guess this anon
>>159232685
Was lying, that being said now i have Two new mangas to read. Thank you anon

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Where does Shuu fit? He was a pathetic faggot for 20 episodes until he became badass at the end. I almost dropped the series multiple times over how annoying he was throughout.

>>159233086
blind cripple faggot

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How does /a/ feel about Mondaiji?

>>159167694
>Unfortunately, most new series are adapted from light novels, especially anime

It's a real shame when NisiOisn actively shits on this very concept in Nisemonogatari as something way too common.

>>159172368
It's a mask for his self-loathing you basic bitch.

>>159234413
that looks so generic it hurts

he's only missing an eyepatch

>>159210600
You don't make him literally overpowered, you make it so that characters in-universe think he's overpowered.

For most characters and lore-wise Link is an unstopable force who is constantly thrown into the world with the instruction to defeat the king of all evil and the little blonde kid does it without giving a fuck, also you rarely get a power-up through the games, most of the times you just get a slightly better tool (the swords are the exception to the rule).

>>159234939
Yeah, but I like the fact that he isn't the only one matter. He has his fight/roles and the others got their.
In addition, if other people think they can handle it, he will just assist them, not trying to hoard it all.

The puzzles and the competitions between the trio are fun too.

>>159232094
Even at the end, decked out in magic power armor, with a magic shotgun and a magic gatling gun, a magic absorbing crystal, taught the strongest martial arts, having instant casting of most spells he uses in combat, mass produced scrolls for nearly all other combat vital spells and a reserve magic pool bigger than nearly anything alive, he's considered what... the 7th strongest person in the world? 5th?

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>>159202317
It works because the story is about one man fucking about in a fantasy world, and the dumb shit that he does during it.

>>159234413
I haven't read it in a while. Are the translations complete? What about the sequel?

>>159239467
The first season is fully translated and the sequel vol 1 is being translated.

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>>159167541
So overpowered the author can only kill him off with some illness.

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>>159187868
Even though someone picked up s, you don't see threads about it here or any interest.

>>159239703
Who, Shin? He could end the war if he'd just knew the enemy location and warped there with his gate. He's more than strong enough to wipe them all out.

>>159239616
Awesome.

>>159185950
>An isekai where the MC gets sucked into a kusoge
I can get behind this.

>>159185950
Wish some other group would pick this up.

>>159242199
It's really fucking good. Thanks to the one who mentioned it i've already read the few manga and light novel chapters. Now i want more but the progress is so slow. FUCK.

>>159239830
ghoul boy is dying of cancer

>>159244212
I just read chapter 2, this is hilarious. It's like the entire story is a Dark Souls meme.
>Dungeon full of mimics
>Some chests are shaped like monsters but are not mimics
>Some real chests have treasure inside, but the treasure is a mimic
>Sometimes the walls and floors are mimics

>>159230006
Honestly it's been a long time since I've hated a character more than fucking Trashoki, that charm is ridiculous.

Have you tried not reading light novels?

>>159197475
There are a bunch of overpowered people in that dungeon because it's basically a post-game dungeon. He also finds very few friendly people in that world.

>>159217322
Shokugeki does it shittily, though. It's fine if he wins, but his wins come in the same style over and over again. The same type of advantages, the same crowd shouting down his neck until he inevitably wins, the same underestimating when we already established time and time again that he's a force to be reckoned with.

If there was variety in his wins I could tolerate it, but watching the same story beats repeatedly is tiresome, even if Souma himself is a decent character.

>>159199043
Akiyama is the rare example of the mangaka being able to write a genius character without making everyone else dumber to allow them to seem smart.

unlike most "smart" MCs whose intelligence really just boils down to common sense in a world of morons