>Legendary figures from all throughout history have to fight each other with crazy powers
>somehow they managed to make this concept boring as all fuck
How?
>>158523227
It's an ero vn.
Constant milking of the franchise
>Uses the fucking DEEN adaptation as pic related.
Well to be fair FS/N is shit, but the rest fate franchise is even more shit.
So it's because constant milking.
>Deen
>doing something right
They ruin almost everything they touch. The VN and the Ufo adaptations are good. I'm sure the spinoff airing this summer will be at least watchable.
>>158523227
If you're talking about the DEEN adaptation, everyone agrees that everything about it is shit, sans the soundtrack (godly). If that's your point, then no one will argue there.
But if you're talking about the entire franchise, give us some examples.
>>158523227
Is it true that Saber (alter) was going to be a guy but nasu had to pander to the fat Otakus in order for it to sell and tuned her into a 15 year old girl
>>158523227
It became better when they made lolis use the powers instead.
The battle royale shit in FSN is just a framing device for Nasu to explore the concept of the Hero Complex through Shirou.
If you care about the whole mythical figures being pinned against each other thing, go check out the side stuff.
>>158524907
I hope Takeuchi gets cancer
>>158523227
It's an excellent concept that was very poorly executed. Also this>>158523958 also fucks it up.
>>158523227
>his first exposure to Fate was DEEN
>>158524202
Still mad at what they did to Umineko.
>>158523227
Says you. Both zero and stay night are interesting to me.
>>158523227
Here you go, literally the better version of Fate but of course the delusional fatefags will never admit its superiority and genius, only being able to understand it on a surface level since they're used to Nasu's awful garbage that's been milked for ages now.
Fate is like a religion to these people. No matter how much its gets milked no matter how many times people point out its flaws they will rigorously, like fanatics really, pull arguments out of their delusional asses just to protect their holy grail of junk.
>>158523227
>make the characters incredibly bland
>make the fights incredibly uninteresting
>make half the cast use swords
>3 of the main characters literally all do the same "shooting swords" shit
>main protagonist directly counters the strongest antagonist, making it have zero tension whatsoever
It's boring because Nasu isn't creative at all. I have to admit when I was really young and I was a chuuni I thought the VN was the best thing ever (because it was the only VN I read at the time). I don't understand how a magic war can be so boring but somehow he can make it happen. The only thing that I liked was the fact that one of the love interests had an actual compelling struggle and the Gate of Babylon is a really cool power. Other than that Fate as a series is complete trash and I have no idea why /a/ worships it so much.
Some people say Jojo is just a meme series. At least Jojo offers entertainment value and a unique artstyle. Fate literally offers nothing
>>158529888
also it has a boring soundtrack, and boring rooms and landscapes
>>158523227
Multiple parallel universe. Fuck this shitty postmodern trope and fuck every fiction that uses it.
>>158530069
Does DBS count
it kinda does that
>>158529888
You forgot
>cooking scenes. COOKING SCENES EVERYWHERE. with taiga, with sakura, with saber, with etc.
>>158530010
>boring soundtrack
Lad the rest of your post is true but this is unforgivable. I think that Fate is like Star Wars in that people subconsciously think the story is better than it really is, because the soundtrack is so good.
>>158529888
>At least Jojo offers entertainment value and a unique artstyle.
>Misusing the word Chuuni
>main protagonist directly counters the strongest antagonist, making it have zero tension whatsoever
What has happened to /a/?
I wonder, if Archer were really trying to -just- kill Shirou, why didn't he go with Rin to the school and help her kill Shirou with ease?
>>158523227
Type Moon is famous for dialogue, setting and ideas. Don't bother if you are just some entry level faggot who thinks DBZ is the best anime ever.
>>158530477
Archer wasn't trying to kill shirou at first, you dummy.
>>158523227
HEY at least the animation is good right?
>>158523227
They decided to focus on a bunch of humans.
Humans are the worst.
>>158530358
Fate sucks, dude.
>>158530656
But heroic spirits are humans too.
>>158523227
It was pretty cool
>>158525068
>He saved TM through smart business decisions
>Wants the guy to die
Typical fujo
>>158529667
>Dies Irae
kek kill yourself you edgy faggot
>>158523227
Just watch Fate/Zero. SN is terrible and is only liked for its shit waifus
>>158530950
Zero is typical edgy faggotry that attracts the worst kind of secondaries. Opinion discarded.
>>158523227
Watch Drifters
>>158523227
I just read the Tsuikihime manga, and it was fucking awesome.
Should I read the VN? Are the other route interesting.
>>158530913
No the vn could still be the exact same, jus don't basterdize the original Arthur and remove the all the porn like nasu origablly wanted .Im just pissed that they made Arthur one of the greatest legends in history a 15 year old girl just so people could fap to her. That's my big problem with the fate franchise in general they try to make brutal shit cute. Wait no that's my problem with a anime in general
>>158531103
Fate would never reach the status it has today with a male King Arthur. Takeuchi saved TM. Original Fate would be full of fujo faggotry and otome shit because of the shitty female protagonist.
It was also based Takeuchi's idea to include the maids in Tsukihime and their routes there were the best.
>>158530999
Yeah the Far Side routes (Akiha, Hisui, Kohaku) are really good.
>>158531103
>and remove the all the porn like nasu origablly wanted
Tsukihime was Nasu's first VN and it had porn. Proto would have had porn if It was released back when F/SN was
> that they made Arthur one of the greatest legends in history a 15 year old girl just so people could fap to her.
It was either that or a bishonen for fujos to ship with other guys and otomefags to schlick their cunts to
>>158523227
>fate/stay night
>boring
What? I can understand not liking the concept itself but for what it was, it was pretty good.
>>158531322
Not to mention not becoming a hit.
I do think that if SN were gender bent that it would do just as well. Gil, Rin, Kerry, Kirei, Cú and even EMIYA being gender bent would probably do just as fine. Just add a bad end with MSaber and FemGil or something. Shitposting would remain the same though.
>>158531610
>EMIYA being female
>Female protagonist
>VN
It would be a female oriented game and never reach the same hit status F/SN did
>>158531103
Berserk is super brutal and grimdark, yet has cute moments. Stop generalizing he world faggot
>>158530981
>fate zero is dark
This is what you mean when you use "edgy" in such a retarded fashion.
>>158530477
And there you go. You didn't understand the plot in the slightest.
>>158531812
>Muh taste of slsughter isn't edgy
Sure, Zerofag
>>158523227
Interesring concept and theme ruined by shit writing.
I'm glad Fate franchise went full waifufaggotry now instead of pretending to take itself seriously.
>>158529888
This. The VN sucks, the only good parts of the franchise are Zero and Strange Fake.
>>158533100
It really does. I think they biggest flaw with Japanese writing is that they take so damned long to say nothing. It's one thing to be boring. But it's even worse to be boring AND long. So much text. So little actual content.
>>158533100
>Zero
>Good
>Strange Fake
Literally meme tier series
>>158533187
You're not reading japanese writing in the VN, you're reading a shit tier translation.
>Little content
You're retarded
>>158533252
Unless the translation is adding entire paragraphs of English between each Japanese line, it still has a serious issue with pacing.
>>158523227
Because they turned the legendary figures into cute girls and prettyboys that don't really have all that much in common with the actual legends.
>>158533198
Zero is okay.
Strange Fake is doing pretty fine but it's too early to tell, who knows that it might turn out to be Apocrypha 2.0 that is much shittier than Stay Night garbage but I really hope not.
>>158533100
For you>>158533361
>>158531225
So maybe Takeuchi should be the one in charge of Type-Moon. We'd probably have the Tsukihime remake by now.
>>158533187
Goddamn navelgazing. It's not just the translations either. You'll spend page after page reading about why a character is a certain way.
Yeah, the VN is pretty shit but Fate/Zero is good. Too bad the entire franchise can't be of the same quality.
The drama about Shiro and Archer being his future self is amazing itself. What was poorly executed was the characters. So much lack of depth they have. Rin and Sakura should have been truly complex characters, given the circumstances of their past. Same with everyone else. Oh well, guess someday a good fanfiction will come .
>>158533361
The difference is Strange Fake doesn't have an actual MC.
>>158533454
>FS/N
>good fanfiction
You'd have a higher chance of making alll your anime waifus real than that hapenning.
>>158533252
It's true. It's incredibly long winded. And repetitive. It's an interesting premise but the actual story is incredibly boring.
>>158533252
Fuck off. >>158533414 is right. No translation would save those parts.
>>158529667
This is a joke right? Masada is terrible at coming up with interesting plot and tells most of his stories through painfully predictable and trite devices. He does lousy at character development; his best ones are completely static, and even the ones that are supposed to "develop" in essence remain the same anyway; Ren is saying the exact same thing at the end of the game as he was at the beginning. His romance is pretty bad; everyone is either already in love or fall for each other inexplicably. His characters are also so out there it's almost impossible to connect to them on an emotional level, and so most of his drama falls flat (not like there's that much to begin with).
On the other hand, Kinoko Nasu's ability to create a strong plot around the setting that builds from small details and individual points into powerful climaxes that thematically pay off the events of his story is top tier. Characterization is Nasu's greatest strength and the reason his works are so popular too. FSN is better than Dies irae, no question in my mind about it.
>>158531103
>>158531225
>>158531322
Wasn't prototype supposed to be like? but it didn't gain enough popularity to warrant a full anime
>>158530477
Once he actually regained his memory (Which was after that) he had only one shot at doing this , so he had to create a scenario that would cut off all possible hopes of Shirou ever making the deal to become a Counter Guardian, not even death was a perfect guarantee unless he broke his spirit first.
>>158532141
"Fate Zero/Berserk/Alien/Whatever is dark" is a worthless, obvious observation and everything that follows from it
>dark things are bad
Is equally retarded.
>>158534293
Well as seen with the sales right now if they make an anime of it in today's time fujoshits will eat it up. I think the reason for not adapting it into a full anime is that type moon has a lot of other stuff planned so there's no room in the schedule
>>158531225
>female protagonist
Male Saber would have been the main character you fucktard
>>158533252
Yes. Little content. It has a like 800k-1 Million fucking words. And it's a visual novel. It has the benefit of using images to help show characters and settings.
For comparison sake let's look at some regular novel word counts:
War and Peace: 600k
All 7 Harry Potter Books: 1 Million
The Hobbit + LotR: 800k
All Three Hunger Games Books: 300k
>>158534682
That is a strange list of books.
>>158534482
Prototype got an OVA years ago, I thought we will get a whole season for it but TM didn't deliver.
I would love to see a complete anime adaptation for Proto since it stays to Fate's original concept and its art got a massive upgrade since based Nakahara took over.
Seriously, Takeouchi should just retire as the heard artist and let Nakahara do the job. I'm fucking tired of his annoying seibah clones.
>>158524829
n-no pan!?
>>158535074
>>158534482
>>158534552
They should make a Fate otome game
>>158535074
Who the fuck is that Persona 4 Arena OC Coldsteel?
>>158535429
Forgot to say, still looks better than most of Grand Order's shitty original "characters".
Fate Prototype will never have a full anime adaptation unless waifubux ran out.
>>158530656
>They decided to focus on a bunch of children.
FTFYAlso why Zero is better.
>>158530656
Focusing on "le epic myths and legends turned into anime characters xD" is exactly why Apocrypha, Extella, and Grand Order are fucking shit with none of the originals' charm.
Well, one of many reasons, at least.
>>158523227
but it wasn't. At all.
>>158535928
I thought one of the main points of Zero was that the cast were mostly manchildren? Kiritsugu even uses the "boku" pronoun
>>158536826
>Implying Zerofags are capable of understanding anything but the most obvious details
>>158523227
Because FSN focuses on a boring piece of shit MC nobody gives a shit about because Nasu was forced to change his story to pander to self insert otaku when he wanted to make it about cool hero fights in the beginning.
The rest of the entries of the franchise improve it by focusing on the Masters instead of literal who OCs.
>>158531103
It's ok, now Nasu panders to Takeuchi making more Sabers but likes to shit on her in the terms of relevance to the plot, having Sakurai making Arthur a far more powerful and key player for the multiverse.
>>158537179
This is the average GOfag by the way.
Reminder that true hero of justice Emiya Shirou would choose to gas all players of that trash as a service to mankind.
>>158534482
Yeah, FGO was in the TOP 10 games nip women played according to a survey. Ranked among only husbando collectors and powerful idolshit like LL that they loved.
>>158537179
If you can see Shirou as a self-insert, you need a therapist.
>>158537287
>implying
FGO is one of the many examples of how to make Fate right. Nasu's original idea and vision was "King Arthur looks for the Holy Grail", gets battles and defeats a Beast. He destroyed his original beloved vision to pander to the lowest neckbeard dominator and created FSN, now he's finally breaking free from that shit and doing exactly what he wants.
>>158536165
I bet you think turkeyshit is a master piece too eh
>>158537390
Nasu certainly does.
>>158537411
Worse than F/SN and KnK, better than any Fate spin-off. Shiki needs a more active personality if the remake ever comes, but at least the protagonist is a character.
>>158537493
>facebook-tier memes
>>158537411
>mc is a 'nice guy' who is a twisted psychopath, amnesiac son of a demon killer family adopted by an oni family and due to a death experience he can now kill people by stabbing some dots
>his half sister and maids wants his dick for no reason
>kills a vampire princess who falls in love with him for murdering her
>also has a senpai who is a church killer who also loves him for no reason
Tsukihime is garbage tier junk, to be honest.
>>158537493
>the average FSN VN fan
Kek
>>158537408
"What he wants" is pretty inferior to what he did in FSN, as displayed by FGO. And even then, he only actually took part in writing parts of that. And the few good things that did come out of it were wasted on gachashit mobage with a self-insert protag, instead of a proper VN or RPG.
You're a delusional Nasu dicksucker if you believe anything he's remotely involved in is fine because it's "what he wants". Fuck off to your hugbox general.
>>158537582
>secondaries and GOfag baiters
>>158523227
I don't quite understand why everyone on this board seems to despise F/GO that much really. At its core it's a free mobile game that manages to have a very expansive storyline with passable gameplay to boot.
Camelot's story alone is certainly far more compelling than most of the other trash from mobage garbage that I've read. I feel most EOP's just shower it in hate as they don't know any better.
>>158537682
FGO is regarded as better than FSN in Japan. It doesn't matter what some contrarians EOPs believe in an american anonymous board. Nasu is having the time of his life and shows with great energy to write what the fuck he likes.
>Fuck off to your hugbox general.
Seems like you can't handle the truth. Maybe it's you who needs a hugbox everyone would tell you FSN and Turklehandle are masterpieces instead of works Nasu had to scrap by and do when he was sick, he edited and changed in order to make them sell when he needed money.
>>158537814
Camelot story is better than anything Nasu wrote. Period. FGO as whole was good, but had some weak parts like Septem, but Camelot as stand alone was perfect. The perfect pacing, perfect cast, perfect ending, perfect musical score, perfect characterization, and themes.
I can't say the same thing about anything else Nasu wrote. As much as I like FSN, it's also fulls of flaws, even on the individual routes.
>>158537814
Personally I just prefer Servants when they're used sparingly/in conjunction with other characters, rather than a whole Servant cocksucking game. I also dislike its heavy mix of fanservice pandering characters with serious story. And I feel the Fate horse is getting old by now (last non-Fate was Mahoyo in 2012) and there's way more stuff to be explored with the rest of the universe.
Basically I like Nasuverse as a japanese World of Darkness urban fantasy thing, which is what FSN/Tsuki/KnK were. Now they seem far more interested in fanservice/comedy and the historical figures gimmick because it sells more, and I feel less invested in it by the day.
>"Oh look let's create alternate What-if realm where Seiba is a milf even if most of this shit makes no fucking sense within timeline - we will just say it is some time aberration blackhole bullshit which make sit all possible, including Servant-Kiritsugu because why the fuck not!"
>"Oh look nothing says "follow up act" as well as a dumb pirate adventure through mediterranean chasing lovestruck loli-Medea and ProtoShinji!"
>"what's next? IDK let's rip off evangelion and muvluv for babylon"
>"Oh look let's turn one of the most badass concepts in tsukihime into a pokemon so we can sacrifice him to save this waifu bc power of humanity and love after thousand year old AI-demon is taught the value and strength of humanity by our protagonist!"
>"Oh and since we need a finale and I want to retcona way most of this first half bullshit because it is glorious mess let's have retroactivelly write out a character we set up as one of history's most important figures and ignore the plotholes!"
>"Oh and I know, for emotional impact let's copy paste Shirou vs Kirei for the end fight,except without any emotional investment or build up and with bland self insert protag instea dof Shirou."
>>158537814
Because that 'free mobile game' is mostly trash, actively destroying the series' lore (even characterization in cases like Shiki) and preventing works that actually have potential from being made? It isn't even limited to just Type-Moon either, GO is hoarding Sakurai who could be working on her next Steampunk VN.
I don't get the zero hate. It has a decent plot, good soundtrack, nice fights, developed characters, and most characters don't look like fucking teenage girls. But apparently it's "edgy" so that makes it shit?
I bet you fags can't stand a show without the teenage girls bullshit all over it.
>>158538108
Nobody hates on Zero, just the anime-only fanbase it amassed
>most characters don't look like fucking teenage girls
Looks like you may be one of them
>>158538058
Nasu is more interested in that because he likes it more, not because it sells more. He had 10 years to write Tsukihime remake and he didn't give a shit about it. While he has fun when he writes Fate. As someone who writes, unprofessionally, I can recognize something he sees as a chore and something he writes because he wants. When you have inspiration and will to do things, the story will automatically happen. Each time he speaks of Tsukihime, Nasu doesn't say "I want to do this", but rather he sees it as something he has to do because he promised. Best thing for him would be put that dog down and stop forcing himself.
>>158537933
Yes, the FGO mobile game fans, of which 80% didn't even read the original VN, and mostly got into for character designs and waifus.
Literally the only standout original character in FGO is Solomon, while FSN's entire main cast was phenomenal, and the quality of writing in FGO from order to order is far less consistent. It's also wasted on a trash medium. It will never be anywhere near as culturally impactful or memorable as FSN, even if it's made many times more money for the greedy fucks at Type-Moon.
>>158538169
wew this guy has Nasu dicksucking EX rank , I bet you think Extella is also great because he wanted to write it (No its biggest piece of garbage with CCC)
>>158538169
Cool for you buddy, but I hate what Nasu claims to enjoy now, especially since it's bogged down by a ton of stuff he doesn't write in the same product.
Also he's literally only spoken like twice about Tsukihime in the past few years, hardly something for you to base your whole opinion around, he doesn't want to hype something that's nowhere in sight.
FGO and modern Nasuverse is worthles milking trash to me.
>>158538211
No, by the old fans too. You need to visit their boards. Unlike you who bitch and whine, they have loved the story and stayed faithful to it since the very beginning.
OP is a weak bait samefaggot
https://boards.fireden.net/a/search/image/RFssY6FPHzYZF5UuUCdNQA/
>>158538309
He said he had the fun of his life writing FGO. I don't think you get he's been trying to do a Fate RPG multiservant game for years, and this is the culmination of his ambition. You can like or hate the work, I'm telling you how Nasu feels. He was able to use his original concepts of Prototype at last, he was able to do his Fate RPG (original Apoc concept) at last. He is like a giddy child. Never mind how much fun he has, he said he can't just focus on it exclusively no matter how much he likes it because he has other projects and "obligations" to his fans.
While he didn't give names, does he really need to?
>>158538098
Fucking this. FGO is absolute trash.
>>158538211
Solomon is great, but so are Merlin (who Nasu considers a FGO debuting character, GoA was written to introduce him), King Hassan, Da Vinci (even though the fanbase don't like her because she's not a waifubait), Medb, Jason, Agravain, Tristan, Nightingale, Nobunaga became a real character thanks to FGO (with an actual serious backstory and outside a gag), her brother Nobuyuki, and others like Asterios and Dantes.
There are many interesting Servants. While Solomon and Mashu have the chunk of development, I'm very fond of Sakurai's steam punk gang too: Helena, Holmes, Jekyll/Hyde (from Fragments but their backstory is explored in FGO short story), Charles Babbage, Moriarty, etc.
>>158538058
The Nasuverse went from dark and doomed multiverse where humanity is doomed to kill its own planet and which is filled with occult magic and lovecraftian horrors to cheerful shonen narrative of superior human race beating everything into submission. Frankly I can't imagine this Nasu writing something like Notes, KNK or Tsukuhime(or even FSN). Not enough bright cheerful bullshit and fanservice.
>>158537814
>>158537933
>expecting the average Fate-tard on /a/ to be capable of learning another language, let alone Japanese at that
Not really sure what you expected honestly.
>>158538778
I want to hold hands with this gentleman.
>>158538778
Ten years ago, I began learning Japanese because of TYPE-MOON and the Nasuverse.
Nasu's work was so detailed and internally consistent. People will question this consistency due to the introduction of exceptions to rules (especially prevalent in Fate onward), but in the past, there was always a solid, non-bullshit explanation - concepts, though occasionally convoluted, made sense. Even more so than that, his characters had a way of exceeding the limits of their basic descriptions. Kara no Kyoukai and Tsukihime read more like plays rather than the anime that most light and visual novels try to mimic. The characterization has effort put into such that the characters transcended their archetypes and became something more, something sympathetic. His characters had to evoke emotion because he didn't have the benefit of flashy visuals or huge art budgets before Fate. All he has wasTakeuchi (who clearly isn't always the best influence, but he is what he is).
Looking back on it, Nasu isn't and probably never was quite as good as Urobuchi or Meteo or Romeo, but he did his best. His world was interesting and had a sense of moderation and care put into it that was charming.
But I can't say that about Type-Moon or the Nasuverse anymore. I can't just blame Fate for it. The only thing I can fathom happening was that Nasu stopped caring. His work just doesn't have the passion it used to. Mahoyo was what truly made me lose hope, because it is so overly polished that it has no soul, and Aoko, Alice, Soujuurou, and even Touko are miserably boring characters compared to the charming ones I remember even within Fate/Stay Night. The powerlevels have gotten too out of control, losing the well-toned sense of restraint the Nasuverse once had.
And I've lost all hope of this stopping. Because it's popular, even though it's dumber than it's ever been.
>>158538823
This. Old Nasuverse lore was coherent and well thought out. Like, literally strongest part of FSN and Tsukihime and KNK writing is well thought out and interesting and complex world building creating realistic and interesting contemporary world built upon buddhism, western occultism and philosophy.
Current Nasu is literally "let's throw in random chuuni concepts with big foreign sounding names and hope something sticks even if it contradicts everything else. YAY"
>>158538752
I agree and pretty much why I'm skeptical of anything coming out of TM now, even when he's directly involved.
His recent plague of self-insert MCs with Servant harem is by far the worst though in my opinion, both Hakuno in Extella and the GO shitter are pitifully terrible. In a universe that used to make an effort for their MCs to stand out as a core part of the story and its themes, no less.
>>158538752
That was never the case, though. Nasu repeated a lot of times that Notes only happened in some AU unrelated to the main timeline. You built yourself a headcanon which had nothing to do with reality.
>>158530477
IIRC there's a bad end where Rin erases Shirou memory and strips him of his command seals and lets him live a regular life making it that she never had the intention to kill him from the start and she even tells him that.
If Archer tried it it would only end with her using a command seal to stop him as it happened later.
>>158523227
>boring
You haven't read the original have you?
>>158538312
You can tell they're shit eaters of the highest degree, since they "stayed faithful" and even enjoyed the entire first half of the story and most of the events, which are some of the worst story content ever put out by Type-Moon.
>>158538504
OK? You're severely twisting his words to fit your nice headcanon (believe me, I've read the interviews), but regardless, I want urban fantasy mystery content that made me fall in love with the universe, not the 30th expansion on Servants in a shitty epic-scale mobile game with a self-insert.
>>158533305
>>158534187
You'd be surprised at how a good, more accurate TL would improve the pacing of the VN
>>158533414
And? I fail to see the problem. Unless you have attention problems
>>158534552
He wouldn't. You're literally retarded.
>>158537179
Shirou >>>>Ayaka > Male Saber
>>158539332
This specially these cunts from reddit and boys love
>>158523227
Fuck off back to your overstylized fate/extra shit.
Hollowgate, never forget.
>>158538671
>GoA was written only to introduce Merlin
lol no
>>158539936
Absolute pottery.
>>158538098
Accurate as fuck. People defending FGO's overall story as anything close to the originals are beyond delusional. It has highlights and good parts, but being a mobage with a self-insert alone is enough to ruin its potential.
>>158539936
>And this is why these lazy cunts at boys love translate hardly anything
>>158540046
Nasu loves the flower faggot, get over it.
>>158540218
Not saying he doesn't but it's stupid to say GoA only existed to introduce Merlin
>>158524829
Please, Prisma Ilya is the most shit series of all.
>>158540353
He loves the round table in general, but Garden of Avalon is written as a prelude to FGO. Mostly for Fou and Merlin. The ending is literally what Fou quotes in the ending of FGO and Nasu wrote FGO ending first. Hint fucking hint.
>>158540506
Plus, it's tied to the Fate route ending.
Can't wait for this baby to hit the small screens.
>>158540830
Can they make Jeanne/Sieg/Astolfo not be shit?
>>158540830
It's arguably the worst of all the already bad modern Fateshit, but at least there's some fun characters and fights. And Sieg is still better than a self-insert.
>>158540830
I hope it crashes and burn
>>158540995
Be careful, that edge may hurt you.
>>158540868
Let friends be friends, anon.
>>158540506
Have you actually read GoA? Foreshadowing GO is one of the things it does but not the only or the main.
>>158540903
Sieg will always be better than that F/GO garbage.
>>158539936
what am i looking at here? how exactly did homie fuck up?
>>158541445
He made an unverified patch consisting of someone else's work.
>>158541895
that much I caught, just not getting why it's such a bad thing
or is it just the plagiarism bit?
>>158530941
What's wrong with edgy?
>>158542214
I finished Kasumi's route last night and I don't get why Kei was such a fucking retard at the end.Why did she kill herself. Why did she do it at the hospital where the last Swastika was. Why did she call out Kasumi and pretend she wanted to kill Ren first.
Still, I'm loving a high quality chuuni VN that goes all out again, instead of wasting its concepts on gacha mobile shit filled with pandering like Fate insists on doing now.
>>158529888
>>158533100
I once wrote the first chapter of a fan fic wherein Shriou/Archer was replaced by a Kerry 2.0, because I think the reason that I, and many other, preferred zero over UBW/Fate is due to how fucking braindead Shirou is.
Kerry was way more interesting.
>make shit plot
>people scapegoat it on deen for making an adaptation of a shit plot
ufotable is proof that fate/sn can't be adapted because it is just bad
>>158523227
My issue is that you have 6-7 other great heroes and somehow EMIYA can beat them all, including Berserker and if he had the mana Gilgamesh using UBW hard counter.
The kind of faggotry it takes to make the insert and put him on par with actual famous myths just smacks of not respecting the original myths enough.
>>158523227
Because Nasu just isn't talented. The selling point of Fate has always been the concept and character design (some of which are fantastic). The actual writing and characterization are utterly stale and mediocre. Now that the franchise has expanded so much, they have the problem that more talentless writers h
>>158523227
>somehow they managed to make this concept boring as all fuck
Somehow Japan manages to do this all the time. Pic related, if I told you about a series in a fantasy world where every conflict has to be solved with games I bet you couldn't possibly imagine something more boring than this. Though I'm not sure if I can give this one to Japan, since the author was suppossedly brazilian or half-brazilian.
>>158543411
t. didn't watch DEEN or even play Fate route
Emiya can kill Berserker at most 6 times. He doesn't have enough NP variety that gets past God Hand 12 times, or the stats to survive while being charged through all that.
Sword rain of low tier NPs is also a minor inconvenience against stronger heroic spirits.
He gets destroyed by Lancer both times they fight in the VN.
>>158541381
But does he makes the millions of yens that the core of fate and type moon makes aka FGO ?
>>158543666
>Emiya can kill Berserker at most 6 times
Issue one right here. The fact he can kill Berserker once is the issue.
He also should have enough swords in stock to be able to kill Berserker all 12 times unless he's only seen 6 good swords in his entire life.
Lancer also has protection against arrows so UBW ain't shit but hoes and tricks.
>>158543666
>self insert can kill a mythological hero SIX (6) times
>hero needs hack that lets him live a dozen times to stand against self insert
>this is considered weak
heh
>>158544111
What, the fact that the protagonist of a story about heroism reaches the level of real heroes after a life of hardship is supposed to be bad? Archer and Shirou's story would be far less impactful if he'd never achieved anything. The point is that even with power and having saved many people, he never felt satisfied with just following an impossible ideal.
God Hand nullifies B rank and bellow, and UBW downgrades by one. In other words, he'd need 12 EX ranks, while fighting the beast that is Heracles, with incomparably better stats, at close range.
>>158544111
>The fact he can kill Berserker once is the issue.
Why? Berserker's main ability is the fact that you have to kill him multiple times. If you can't kill him 12 times, you can't beat him in any real sense.
>>158544157
See >>158544310
>self insert
Read the fucking VN.
>>158544086
>money making = quality
I'm not defending Apocrypha trash but fuck off GO cuck.
>>158544157
>hack
It's a noble phantasm. Every Servant has one. Plenty have more than one. They're generally absurd. God Hand isn't even that crazy compared to others.
>>158544310
>he'd need 12 EX ranks
I thought he could use Broken Phantasm to make up for the rank-down? Then he'd only need A ranks.
>>158544310
Its a rank down not a full rank, A+ becomes A, B- becomes C+ so on.
The strongest thing he can make is A++ which is a rank down Avalon
>>158544433
Correct.
Trace A-rank NP -> Ranked down to B because of UBW -> Break it to get it back up to A
>>158544537
That's not how ranks work. Pluses and minuses are modifiers. Letters are ranks.
So something like A++ goes down to B++.
>>158544433
He can only do that at a distance due to creating a fuckhuge explosion, and it's supposed to be very mana intensive. Good luck pulling that off so many times while Berserker's on top of you.
We literally have a result for how this fight goes explicitly in the source material, Archer dies after killing him 6 times. He even claims he'll go all out and try to kill him and survive, it's just not possible.
>>158541381
its speaks to how terrible he is that he isnt
>>158544392
look I don't even care about that jew mobage that showed Type-moon true colors
>>158537408
>Shirou
>otaku insert
You have no taste. I don't see how a bildungsroman which plays around with the idea of heroism in great depth, alongside a bunch of other interesting little details, is pandering to the lowest common denominator.
>>158538823
I know that feel.
Tsukhime, FSN, and KnK had a really magical feeling when I first read them. It might just be a matter adolescent nostalgia (as that is the timeframe wherein fiction seems to be most memorable), but TM's latest output is disappointing.
>>158543105
Spoken like a true secondary who missed the pointer Zero was trying to make
Off yourself
>>158544537
Avalon was special. Only endgame Fate route Shirou can project it
>>158545352
>secondary
I read the VN before I watched Zero. I'm not really sure what you mean by "the point Zero was trying to make", either.
I'd rather not get into a discussion about the various different philosophical points Zero, Fate, UBW, and HF make, because I don't feel it relevant, but I just find Kerry to be a more interesting/compelling character than Shirou.
It seems that the instant defense people make for Shirou is that there's some sort of deeper meaning behind his story that absolves the character of his flaws. (Note that I don't mean "character flaws" as in bad parts of his personality, I mean character flaws as in flaws in the writing.)
It's subjective, obviously, but I just don't like Shirou as a character.
>>158523227
Shirou is a mistake
Also the writing is shit
>>158530358
how do you know he misused the word chuuni
>>158541367
Yeah, I own the book, the cd drama and the OST.
>>158540793
Yeah, because Fate ending is the only one that matters in the big picture.
>>158544086
>*dollars
fixed
>>158543666
That EMIYA gets to killed Heracles even 1 time is fucking bullshit. Same for fucking Rin. FSN will forever be trash to me because of how Nasu makes him job against his speshful self insert japanese OCs.
>>158547525
See >>158544310
You're the kind who thinks Grand Order is great because it only has the "epic actual myths" (that totally weren't the VN OC coldsteels of their own time) and no major original characters, aren't you?
>>158545645
>by "the point Zero was trying to make", either.
That Kiritsugu was a fucking manchild. You're not supposed to get your panties wet over the shit he did like a filthy secondary.
>but I just find Kerry to be a more interesting/compelling character than Shirou.
Which is complete boogus since they're basically the same character presented in different forms (as evidenced by the MoS bad ending in F/SN)
Your reason for liking Kiritsugu more is certaibly something shallow and senseless
>I mean character flaws as in flaws in the writing.)
And those are?
Really doubt you read the VN
>>158547434
Prove it
>>158547525
>That EMIYA gets to killed Heracles even 1 time is fucking bullshit
How? No one ever explains this.
Ultimately, Archer's NP isn't able to overcome Berserker's. Berserker wins. You're completely inverting the narrative by claiming Archer came out ahead in the conflict in any way.
>>158547525
>Herkcucks exist
lol
>>158547877
So if you like one character's unacheivable heroic ideal then that's okay but if you like the other character's unacheivable heroic ideal it is certainly shallow and you haven't read the vn? And that would be because nasu said so therefore it is true? Can't we form our own opinion?
>>158523227
daily reminder fate zero was the only good adaption in the entire franchise
>>158542157
Translators are whores.
>>158547877
>That Kiritsugu was a fucking manchild.
Doesn't make him any less of a compelling character. The decisions he makes are extreme (That's a trait shared by most, if not all Fate characters, though. Most are incredibly dogmatic.) but IMO, more justifiable than some of the actions Shirou took.
I will fully admit though, that 50% of the reason I like Kerry is for that one scene with the blonde mage who's name I can never remember, where he blows up the building.
>basically the same character presented in different forms
I think most of HF kind of proves that wrong though. Significant differences are highlighted between the two, comparing the scene where Kerry blows up the 747 with his mentor on, where the risk of harm to others was middling to low, vs Shirou who wouldn't kill Sakura despite her being (in)directly responsible for thousands of deaths.
I mean, it would depend on what would constitute your definition of "the same character".
Kerry wants to save the most people regardless of the situation, where as Shirou's a much more focused on whats in front of him/the people he cares about.
>And those are?
His inflexibility, and his propensity to succeed in spite of it, against insurmountable odds. The insurmountable odds part isn't too bad, it's the fact that he doesn't seem to change much.
That being said, it's been 2 years since I last read Fate/UBW. I re-read HF not long ago, and I do remember significant character development, so whether or not I'm miss-remembering the other two, I'm not sure.
As I remember it, though he basically ran into every problem head first, (IIRC one of the bad ends in Fate is from not inspecting Kotomine's rape dungeon, which to me seems like a sensible idea.) and somehow comes out the other side unscathed, or lightly wounded.
I had a little more, but word limit. Basically, I think I'm more annoyed at the situation around him than I am him.
>Really doubt you read the VN
Can't prove either way.
I'm sure that despite all our differences, we can agree on one thing:Rin pleases old men for money
GUDAO
>>158549047
PLEASES
>>158549065
OLD
>>158549077
WOMEN
>>158549086
FOR
TRAPS
>>158549105
MONEY
>>158549191
So Astolfo pays him to please old women?
>>158548208
Kiritsugu was literally a manchild who sperged out because he could not get what he wanted with his own two hands and searched out for a supposedly magical wish device like a complete fool, meanwhile Shirou already know that the shit was crap from the start.
You can like Kiritsugu but he was objectively inferior
>>158548348
>but IMO, more justifiable than some of the actions Shirou took.
Give examples.
>I will fully admit though, that 50% of the reason I like Kerry is for that one scene with the blonde mage who's name I can never remember, where he blows up the building.
>Dude explosions!
You're outing yourself as a secondary the more you say
>I think most of HF kind of proves that wrong though. Significant differences are highlighted between the two, comparing the scene where Kerry blows up the 747 with his mentor on, where the risk of harm to others was middling to low, vs Shirou who wouldn't kill Sakura despite her being (in)directly responsible for thousands of deaths.
All bad endings are canon, one of the bad endings in HF has Shirou agreeing to kill Sakura and literally becoming a copycat Kiritsugu, foolish ending and everything.
>Kerry wants to save the most people regardless of the situation, where as Shirou's a much more focused on whats in front of him/the people he cares about.
Wrong
>His inflexibility, and his propensity to succeed in spite of it, against insurmountable odds.
How is that bad writing? Literally every protagonist does that shit. Kiritsugu did this shit in F/Z when he managed to handle Kirei who is stronger than him by a huge margin.
At least in F/SN you have over 40 endings where Shirou gets screwed over compared to the 4 where he lives.
>and somehow comes out the other side unscathed, or lightly wounded.
He didn't and sometimes we have to follow our instincts.
>Can't prove
I guess you really didn't
>>158548348
>I like Kerry is for that one scene with the blonde mage who's name I can never remember, where he blows up the building.
>>158549404
Nice.
>>158549337
I'm trying to remain civil but you make it different friendo.
>Give examples.
I did give examples. I would like you to present an argument as to why you think Kerry represents an "objectively inferior" character, a matter which I believe to be completely subjective.
>You're outing yourself as a secondary the more you say
The original work was literally porn. Please don't act like reading the original work is a task carried about by those above a good explosion.
>All bad endings are canon
Then you could use basically any of the bad ends to justify any number of points. You're opening a conversation about 4 characters, (Kerry, HF/Fate/UBW Shriou) into hundreds.
> Literally every protagonist does that shit.
Major part of the heroes journey is changing to overcome obstacles. Shirou doesn't. Makes for an unsatisfying resolution. OPM kind of proved that not having to change to overcome a challenge is unsatisfying.
>Kiritsugu did this shit in F/Z when he managed to handle Kirei
Kerry shot him multiple times with his Contender, seriously wounding him. Not sure how much tougher Kirei is meant to be.
>He didn't and sometimes we have to follow our instincts.
The fact that he managed to walk away from any of the events of any of the routes, even with Avalon, should be counted as getting off lightly.
>I guess you really didn't
Don't see what it really matters either way. Point out what's so obviously wrong about my points, given that it's so clear to you that I haven't read the VN.
Because I spend my time going on the internet and telling lies.
>>158549404
Kek.
>>158549618
>Major part of the heroes journey is changing to overcome obstacles. Shirou doesn't.
Not even him, but this is total bullshit.
>>158549683
Shirou doesn't change, much. He doesn't seem to grow much as a person. HF being the exception.
Again, it's been a while since I last read the VN, or watched the anime, so my perception might have been slightly warped, but I just don't really think his feelings change all that much. If anything, he seems to get more deeply entrenched in his ways.
Might be wrong. Might be that I just have a different opinion. Might be that I'm off my meds and hallucinated half of Fate.
Still better than Prisma Illya though.
>>158549807
No he definitely grows in Fate and esp. UBW as well. Just because he didn't completely abandon his ideals doesn't mean that Shirou didn't change at all.
>>158549618
Kiritsugu is literally a bad end Shirou, that's how complex he is compared to the original protagonist. He is objectively inferior no matter how you look at the situation.
>I did give examples
Didn't see them desu
>The original work was literally porn
Yes, it had porn...and? Does that invalidate anything? Especially when the porn was such a small part of the series? At least you don't see any fan of Shirou saying that they like him because of his performance in the H-scenes.
>Then you could use basically any of the bad ends to justify any number of points. You're opening a conversation about 4 characters, (Kerry, HF/Fate/UBW Shriou) into hundreds.
The VN is just that complex, sorry. So yeah using MOS Shirou is valid
>Major part of the heroes journey is changing to overcome obstacles. Shirou doesn't
He literally changes in every route.
In Fate, he stops trying to act his ideal out of a sense of survivor guilt.
In UBW, he finds the true meaning of his ideal
In HF he legitimately drops his entire ideal
Kiritsugu on the other hand, only changes after Zero is over.
>Kerry shot him multiple times with his Contender, seriously wounding him. Not sure how much tougher Kirei is meant to be.
A lot, secondary. Kiritsugu literally only survived Kirei because he had Avalon.
Zero Kirei with the command seals is in the level of a low tier servant level
>The fact that he managed to walk away from any of the events of any of the routes, even with Avalon, should be counted as getting off lightly.
Over 40 nas endings compared to the 4 where he does survive is getting off slightly?
>Because I spend my time going on the internet and telling lies.
Wouldn't be the first time for me.
In any case I think you didn't read because you very obviously lack knowledge about it
>>158549285
Astoflo gets off to Gudao servicing people like Raikou.
>>158549877
The secondary very clearly didn't read the VN, it's quite pathetic.
>>158549807
>Shirou didn't change in Fate and UBW
>What is the Church scene
>What is the Answer
Wew
>>158549877
Maybe I'm just being a drooling retard or a sadist then.
It seemed to me that for most of Fate he's perpetually told be everyone around him, and it's reinforced by his actions, that his ideal a shit.
Probably just miss-remembering shit though.
>>158549942
I guess you have really strong opinions on this, so let's agree to disagree.
>>158550043
>Probably just miss-remembering shit though.
Don't lie, you didn't even read it.
>>158550043
>Opinions
Those are called facts.
>>158550099
Oh! Man you got me. Never even read it. Boy you sure managed to figure that out.
>>158550122
Clearly. How could I be so stupid as to think that someone's subjective feelings about a character could hold up to cold hard facts about a character.Why don't we just say you won?
Sorry about being passive aggressive/sarcastic. It's just that you do clearly feel quite strongly about this, I just don't feel as strongly as you do, nor do I really feel like dragging up cited sources to actually finish this argument.
>>158550190
>getting intimidated over the internet
Tip: When you get BTFO in an argument, just stop replying bud.
>>158550230
Calling your own BTFO, and claiming I'm intimidated by you?
Best stop replying before you trace me IP and come and track me down.
Bud.
>>158549337
>objectively
It can't be objective if we are talking about abstract philosophical ideals or liking a character. You are misusing the word.
>>158550099
>>158550122
The Fate fanbase really is shit.
Good God why are Fatefags so fucking autistic, look at this fucking ongoing "argument".
In a way, I'm glad Grand Order trash made me stop being completely in love with it and unaccepting of other opinions.
>>158550351
>>158550427
>where do you think we are
>>158550351
It's not a question of liking a character or not. Kiritsugu is literally just an expansion on a bad end Shirou, he is considerably less complex and a worse protagonist. Just accept it and move on knowing that transforming Shirou into Kiritsugu 2.0 is a disservice to his character.
>>158549942
>The VN is just that complex, sorry.
Hahahaha what planet are you from
>>158550190
You don't need to sugarcoat it. You lost this argument, plain and simple.
>>158550539
Compared to F/Z? It's considerably more complex, especially with all the bad endings/ alternate outcomes.
Never claimed it was the most complex VN out there though.
>>158550599
So young.
>>158550648
Not that poster but complexity has nothing to do with whether or not something is "smarter" or better than anything else which is what you seem to be thinking. F/SN is more complex by virtue of being a VN with three different routes and like 40+ different endings (not real endings, but bad ends and everything included). Something like that is just more complex (there's a lot of parts to it, considering the actual definition of complex) than a straightforward LN/anime adaptation.
>>158550768
If the validity of 'Bad' or 'Alternate' or 'Route' endings is to be considered, then there is reason to consider the difference in format as invalidating of any comparison. If not, you can make up any AU end that you want for Zero, and use that as an equally valid argument. Or, you can simply pick one playthrough text. Anything beyond that is a meaningless exercise in rhetoric.
Grand Order is more complex than FSN if you intend to use that interpretation of the word.
Also: complexity is not novelty. Do not misunderstand or overlap the two.
>>158551071
>If not, you can make up any AU end that you want for Zero, and use that as an equally valid argument. Or, you can simply pick one playthrough text. Anything beyond that is a meaningless exercise in rhetoric.
Except Bad Ends are canonically written and AU is fan fiction
>>158551313
The value of a text is not in its being written.
>>158551412
You don't get to make up fanfiction and then claim it's representative of the writing in the original work.
>>158523227
They just need the right figures.
Viva la France!
>>158523227
There was that show/manga by the person who also made Helsing, I can't remember the name right now. It's like fate but less autistic. Also without the token beta selfinsert cuck MC
>>158550684
That wasn't me though.
>>158550648
?
>>158550768
This.
>>158551071
All the bad endings are canon unlike your supposedly AU fanfics.
>>158551412
We are not talking about value but plot structure. F/SN is more complex than F/Z. It's better too but that's not the case here.
>>158551498
>token beta selfinsert cuck MC
Kiritsugu is in Fate/Zero though.
>>158551550
you're right fate/zero wasn't written by nasu. its not aimed at the naruto/FSN fanbase.
>>158551071
What the fuck are you talking about even? You seem to be working under the assumption that "complexity" has an inherently positive connotation and makes a story better, but that's not what anyone's arguing. It's like you're having a completely different discussion.
>>158551526
F/GO is more complex than FSN. It's better too but that's not the case here.
>>158551614
It's aimed at the mentally challenged 12 year olds who get off to edgy things instead. But the again, that's the Naruto fanbase, so I guess you made a mistake there when you put a +18 series like F/SN saddled with pretentious crap.
>>158551720
u mad narutard?
>>158551498
>
Drifters
>>158551682
>F/GO
>better than anything
lol
It's a cash grab mobage that has, at best, an okay story at times. Most of which is inacessible to EOPs like you.
>>158551753
>U mad
Thanks for proving me right, kid
Could someone explain the appeal of this series to me. I watched Fate Zero and it was genuinely the most boring experience I ever had with anime. I feel asleep 3 times.
I don't watch much VN adopted anime, from what I have seen it seems to constant the least entertaining type of anime. The scenes tend to involve long conversation in the same uninteresting background. Characters are seem to be written for an audience that has trouble with social skills or empathy, they tend to be shallow whiny people. The concepts tend to be ridiculous nonsense but played out more seriously than they deserve. I laughed my ass at the idea that characters can discuss their class, attribute points, or level ups in Fate in such dramatic and serious tones.
>ITT Zerofags getting BTFO
Every single time
>>158551834
I think I can state definitively that this is not the franchise for you
>>158551666
One picture may possess more value and/or complexity than FSN as a work. In this way, any work may be more complex than another - the qualification of complexity is not now and is never in the notion of size or difference. Novelty is not complexity. Naming FSN a more complex work than FZ because of the field of its text is an improper action.
>>158551868
What's your counter-argument then? Why would you consider Zero more "complex"?
>>158551834
Fate/Zero is genuinely boring at the start if you know nothing about the series. The VN starts somewhat underwhelmingly but grows as it progresses
>>158551834
VNs are made for illiterate japanese boys to jerk off to. They hold little value. The only interesting F/SN route is Heavens Feel and that's because of Shirou/Sakura's dilemma.
>>158551782
>EOPs like you
What an odd, childlike assumption.
>>158551868
You're retarded or something? In what way is Zero straight LN format is more complex than the VN one F/SN adopted?
>>158551867
Well I figured that out. I'm just trying to understand what the fun people see in it is? There are many type of anime I find boring but I can see why they would appeal to certain people.
My guess is that it's the same reason kids like pokemon, it's a fantasy about being able to control something powerful and eventually become friends with it.
>>158551929
Don't kid yourself, EOP.
>>158551926
>VNs are made for illiterate japanese boys to jerk off to.
Yeah, that's why F/SN all ages version was released and had similar success compared to the original.
>>158551834
>appeal
Chuuni, power levels, and young japanese teenagers..
Why do you think the VN protagonist are all high schoolers instead of grown, rational adults.
>>158551983
It's a cool premise.
Anyway "ridiculous nonsense but played out more seriously than they deserve" is exactly what I look for in Japanese media.
>>158551983
F/SN is a story about heroism and the concept of an ideal hero applied to specific situations.
Most of the people who liked, found the theme interesting enough to continue to follow the series
>>158552036
The VN is targeted towards young adults
>are all high schoolers instead of grown, rational adults
Most adults are boring, F/Z proved that.
Besides the only rational one there was Kirei.
>>158551889
Why would I be making a 'counter-argument' when I have taken no side in the apparent discussion?
I have defined an erroneous logic as such. That logic was used to make an argument. As the logic is incorrect, there is no argument made. If there is no argument made, then there is only the premise of the question posed. What sort of countering argument is presented against a question?
I have no reason to say that one work is in different standing to another work because I have not presented an argument or logic for an argument thereupon.
You can spot a secondary when they say that they prefer F/Z over F/SN.
>>158552213
Thanks for sharing I guess? I can't fathom why you thought this was a useful digression.
>>158552213
You didn't do anything though.
>>158533538
Don't be so hasty.
>>158552276
>>158552449
The argument presented by the statement "FSN is more complex than FZ" or any obvious variant of it, without ascribing a specific non-quantity-based justification of that argument, is wrong. That's the only value of what I said.
>>158553119
But there is a justification, we are talking about the structure of the plot. F/Z came from a LN, the plot is straightforward. F/SN's plot has multiple paths and branches therefore it is objectively more complex.
Sorry, Zerofag.
>>158553190
But then by that logic, literally any story that has paths and branches is more complex than any linear story.
>>158553190
>>158551071
>>158551868
>I have defined an erroneous logic as such. That logic was used to make an argument. As the logic is incorrect, there is no argument made. If there is no argument made, then there is only the premise of the question posed.
I have no stake or consideration of either side of your pathetic argument. I am judging the logics of the arguments made. Argue that a work is good. Argue that a work is bad. I will judge the logic of the argument and then I will judge the argument itself if the logic is sound. There has yet to be a sound logic given by any one.
>>158553260
And?
>>158553260
Regarding plot structure? Obviously.
>>158553378
You forgot to tip your fedora at the end.
>>158553378
>"tips fedora*
In what way is the argument not logical, retard?
>>158553499
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complexity
>>158553648
>Wikipedia
lmao, are you serious nigger?
>>158553738
got em
I hope this gives us cheesy songs.
>>158553499
>Regarding plot structure? Obviously.
I'm not even that guy, but you're a retard. Choose your own adventure juvenile YA books would be more complex than War and Peace by your retarded standards. VNs have routes because they are VNs, this isn't "complex" than a book when they are looked down as the lesser format by anyone with a braincell.
>>158554591
Those chicken legs on the left dude.
>>158554704
Yeah but there's no War and Peace CYA book. There's a Fate VN, Fate anime and a Fate LN, which all deal with the same/similar stories. I don't think that's a fair comparison.
>>158552238
I read all the VN
Still prefer Zero
>>158552036
>grown, rational adults.
Anyone who legit says this statement has never worked a day in their life. Most of the adults you'll meet if you leave your mothers basement is the whiny screaming about their marriage and how they'll kill themselves types. Rational people are rare.
>>158555584
It is a fair and correct comparison.
>>158554704
>War and Peace
War and Peace is overly complex garbage. So I wouldn't really draw a comparison to it for anything.
>>158556732
>one of the most heavily-analyzed books in history because of how simple it is to handle for students
>"overly complex garbage"
yeah okay thanks for the contribution community college
>>158556732
>unironically insulting War and Peace
I'm a philistine and I know this is dumb.
>>158555564
They are stage musical actors and singers, anon.
>>158555584
I don't want to be "that guy", but Nasu himself does imply Zero is a serious work over FSN.
>Nasu: I told Aniplex's producer that I wanted the Fate/Zero novels turned into an anime. It was a good suggestion. Many anime fans want there to be a lot of cute bishoujo characters in the work, and while they work hard to meet those needs, Iwakami, an important producer at Aniplex, wasn't satisfied just by doing that. I suggested that he tackle Fate/Zero, a dark and serious story full of raw emotion. He had the resolve, and that's how they ended up adapting Fate/Zero.
Context for this: Iwakami turned down to adapt FSN because he didn't want to adapt a bishoujo harem series, so Nasu proposed Zero. You'll notice UBW was changed to follow Zero mood too, with all Saber's waifu scenes modified and portrayed as Shirou's surrogate "mom". The "dark mature stuff" isn't a secondary meme, it's Nasu's description of Fate/Zero.
>>158523227
This, holy shit.
The entire setup is completely fucking retarded and misused.
There is no internal logic or even any real consistency, it's basically a series of "cool" events linked in a stream of consciousness with only the vaguest of bullshit pretexts to keep an actual narrative.
During Archer and Shirou's fight, how the FUCK was Shirou capable of fighting Archer, in a million years? "Derp, his mana circuits are resonating with his future self and he's getting stronger because of it, mages use this technique often!" and the concept is NEVER BROUGHT UP BEFORE OR AGAIN IN ANY WAY. Pulled entirely out of his ass just so he could have the scene. Everything in the fucking show is like that. The entirety of the wordlbuilding is done offhandedly and with borderline contempt just to set up subsequent showy set-piece tropes. It's like if I woke up from a cool dream where I defended by waifu from harm and defeated the bad guy, knew I couldn't make it work in the setting, so I just shat on my worldbuilding with some handwave bullshit. The plot is literally just a vague framework to keep the generic chuuni bullshit coming; in a show that ISN'T shit, this would be the exact opposite. IE, the narrative would define what setpieces were warrented, not the other way around.
Fate sucks complete shit and is for retards. Literally all it has going for it is the goddamn hot girls; but Jesus Christ, can we stop pretending like it isn't complete shit beyond that? There are people that ACTUALLY take this garbage seriously.
>>158558384
>Literally all it has going for it is the goddamn hot girls
And Kotomine
>>158558384
I almost feel like this is pasta, so one answer is obvious. Read the VN. And also read the other works which things may be brought up or connected again, and some works are set in different parallel timelines and stuff like that.
It takes plenty, but ultimately, it makes sense.
>>158558384
>"Derp, his mana circuits are resonating with his future self and he's getting stronger because of it, mages use this technique often!" and the concept is NEVER BROUGHT UP BEFORE OR AGAIN IN ANY WAY.
While you are right,I'm pretty sure Prelati's doing it now, in SF.
>>158558465
>read all these boat loads of work to understand
That's Kingdom Hearts tier bullshit.
>>158559100
The worldbuilding for the Nasuverse is spread across many works, but this is easy stuff to summarise and just read wiki articles.
>>158523227
Because Nasu is a hack and while he had good ideas and concepts his writing wasn't good enough to execute them properly.
Extra is way better executed for example.
>>158537814
Because it brought the gachawaifufags over. Same as Zero and the wave of shitters back in 2013. Plus, the first few arcs were garbage
Prisma only the best thing to come out from this franchise
>>158560466
shoo pedo.
>>158558267
Something being needlessly dark and mature =\= complex
>>158554704
That comparision is utter nonsensical. F/Z isn't War and Peace tier and F/SN isn't a kiddy CYA tier. They're similar stories with similar themes with F/SN being obviously more complex because of the structure surrounding it.
>>158559172
>Extra
>better
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>158560988
That poster did not say anything about complexity. You seem sensitive.
>>158529888
Jojofags proving again they are one of the most cancerous fanbases. You make me ashamed of liking the manga.
>>158561108
Follow the line of conversation, retard.
>>158561063
>thing is obviously better than thing 2, because I say so
Just fucking concede that you are stating personal opinions rather than incontrovertible truths.
If you think that the beliefs which you are espousing are 'objective' entities of some sort, you are irredeemably stupid/mentally ill.
>>158561192
I wrote half the conversation, retard. That specific poster said or implied nothing about complexity. You are not even worth as much as a subhuman.
>>158561196
Since when is "complex" the same thing as "better"? Are you actually that dumb?
Of course I do think F/SN is better, but it has nothing to do with the FACT that it's narrative and plot is considerably more complex than F/Z's
>>158561242
The whole line of conversation was about that. That poster replied to a comment in defense of the War and Peace and kiddy CYA comparision. A comparision that was used to try and prove that F/SN wasn't more complex.
As I said, follow the damn conversation.
>>158561196
Just accept you got BTFO, my man.
>>158561246
This.
Zerofags are so insecure. They truly are underage.
>>158561246
You are irredeemably stupid/mentally ill.
Your lines of thought remind me of the puppets from Goodreads. So: return to Goodreads or, if you have never been there before, go there to stay.
>>158561350
>Just accept you got BTFO, my man.
>112 IPs; it's gotta be just one person - and they're probably underage too xD
mk
>>158561359
Dude, I'm not the one confusing the meaning of the words complex and better here.
>>158561388
If you paid attention
>Zerofags are so insecure. They truly are underage.
I wasn't talking about you in particular Zerofag but the entirety of your cancerous ilk.
>>158561437
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman
>>158561481
It's not even a strawman, you legit confused the meaning of the words
evidenced by this
>"thing is obviously better than thing 2, because I say so"
Just accept you fucked up and own up to your mistakes, Zerofag. In your tiny mind something being more complex obviously must mean it's technically better but that's really not the case.
>Zerofags getting BTFO in a fate thread
>again
When will they learn?
fsn = bishoujo light work
fz = serious and mature
According to Nasu. If you like haremshit, you'll prefer FSN.
>>158561470
So Nasu is underage? He said FZ was better than FSN.
>>158561812
He never said that. But according to him F/Z isn't even canon
>>158561779
>fsn
>bishoujo light workshop
wew, secondary
>>158561812
Nah, Nasu likes F/Z but he's not retarded about it like your average Zerofag
>>158561779
FSN isn't a harem though?
>>158523227
Don't mind me people, just posting the best thing about DEEN/stay night.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJXw0lL5-vA
>>158562084
I think most people like zero, it's just that zerofags are obnoxious
>>158562182
Truest word that has been said in this week by far.
>>158533187
That's what a fucking mollusk would say you spineless shit.
>>158562182
This desu
>>158562179
Kenji Kawai >>>>>>>> Yuki Kajiura
>>158551834
>I don't watch much VN adopted anime, from what I have seen it seems to constant the least entertaining type of anime
>The scenes tend to involve long conversation in the same uninteresting background
You sound like an anime noob whose seen nothing but shounen shit.
>>158561470
The people who yell "secondary" whenever Zero's mentioned likely are underaged. I have a hard time believing they knew what Zero was before the anime came out.
>>158559172
It's not a great series and the writing isn't fantastic but it definitely isn't boring.
>>158562989
Are you implying Zero didn't generate the most autistic anime only fans and ruined the Fate fanbase forever?
>>158562166
>One male protagonist
>Overwhelming number of female protagonist who crave his dick
>Not a harem
>>158562166
It kind of is. Shirou is even written like a dense harem protagonist.
>>158559150
>Just read the VN
No. Don't do it. I did because i trusted fools like you. It's not good. It's too long. I'll never trust /a/ again.
>>158564190
Agreed. Waste of my fucking time; didn't learn anything that I didn't already know.
>"but you get more in-depth exploration of Shirou's character, and that's what makes him so perfectly-written!"
'Longer' is not synonymous with 'in-depth'.
>>158530477
Personally, I think it's because Archer KNOWS it's not going to work. It's worth stating that there are no endings where Archer kills Shirou and wipes himself from existence: You physically cannot die fighting Archer at any point. (Seriously, check it. There's no bad end like that in the entire game.)
At the same time, the odds are it won't do anything. Archer is already damned, because he's already sold his soul, so to speak. Killing *this* Shirou doesn't do anything. He's still stuck as a Counter-Guardian.
This is why Archer doesn't just sprint towards Shirou and fucking stab the shit out of him. On some level, he knows it's not going to work, so all he can hope for is personal satisfaction by making Shirou renounce his ideas.
I mean, if there was any realistic chance of his plan working, he would just have murdered Shirou immediately.
>>158564095
>>158564134
One girl, one route. The girls don't even go after him in other routes. It's not a harem.
>>158564095
3 is overwhelming? In a story divided in 3 routes? Where questionably only Sakura craves the bone of his sword out the three, where the other two wake up to the prospect of dicking in the middle of the story?
You're mistaking Stay Night with Hollow Ataraxia, my friend.
stay night is good, everything else is shit.
Fate is good because of good main characters like Shirou Rin Sakura and Saber
>>158564811
Saber, Rin, Sakura, Illya, Luvia, random schoolgirls
>>158564941
Rin is only good in HF though. In the others she's just an infodump dispenser and generic tsundere.
>>158565372
Now this is shit taste
>>158565372
What do you mean by generic tsundere ? I will admit that in fate she did not have much purpose (well you have some scene that are interesting) but in UBW she was at her best with HF. Her character evolve in the same way in both routes.
grand order will save us all
read as: who cares if you like it, it's mindblowingly popular
>>158565117
Saber, Rin and Sakura are love interests in each of their routes and the only one that still wants Shirou in other routes is Sakura due to him being the only guy that didn't treated her as a sex doll.
Illya at 1st wants to kill him but develops a sister brother relationship at no route they end up banging, closest to that is when she teases him in fate only to trap him in a doll. The only version she is confirmed to lust after him is Prisma Ilya.
Luvia only shows as a voice at the end of HF in Rin's flashback AFAIK she probably doesn't even know Shirou exists in the 1st place unless her story is similar to Prisma Ilya version other than that she is only present on Anime version of the epilogue of UBW.
What random schoolgirls? Ayako that in HA was more interested in Lancer than Shirou or the other trio that showed more interest in Lancer and Archer than Shirou and other than Ayako none of them appeared in FS/N aside from that cameo in anime UBW.
>>158565788
Grand Order will save you
But it won't save me
>>158564190
>I-it's too long
Found the kid with the attention span of a 10 yo
>>158564305
I heard this same spiel. Shirou is a shit protagonist. Somehow the LN version is even worse because the "in-depth" exploration of his character reveals that the emperor has no clothes.
Because they live in a shitty videogame-like world obsessed with videogame rules and arbitrary stats. It's just nerd stat porn.
>>158567272
>LN
>Shirou
The fuck you're talking about, secondary?
>>158567251
Found the guy who has no appreciation of concise writing. Long does not equal good.
>>158567309
You can't just green text people, call them secondaries and expect anyone to know what the fuck you're talking about.
>>158523227
It's not boring as fuck, it's just wrong. The characterization is bad. Most of the Western chars don't ascribe to our notions of them. They feel too Japanese.
No one summoned hitler
>>158567251
https://howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=3416
60-90 hours of pure story. You don't need to be a 10 year old to lose interest. Especially when it's as boring as FSN is. Don't waste your time. You could watch multiple anime seasons in that time. Or even watch Zero, Fate, UBW and still have time for more. Hell, you could watch the entirety of Game of Thrones in that time. Or beat Persona 5. Or whatever else that's way more interesting than FSN.
>>158567379
almost like it was written by a japanese guy
>>158562166
It's Rin's harem.
>>158567353
The retard just implied Shirou came from a LN.
>>158567675
I read it in 45 hours, had a pretty good time and liked it. Didn't found boring.
Don't use your experience as a rule you biased piece of shit.
>>158567321
But
>too long
isn't a fucking complaint. Unless you're an actual autist unable to read long pieces of writing.
>people who read the VN in translation think they can shit on secondaries when they've only experienced the story through a shitty robotic translation
Really cracks me up desu
>>158568474
>too long isn't a fucking complaint
k go read Men of Goodwill
come back and tell us what you thought of it when you're done
and don't come back a moment sooner
>>158568627
>Actually read the whole thing in nip
git gud
>>158568632
Retard. As long as you pace yourself, no book is impossible to overcome
Too long isn't a fucking complaint.
>>158568627
Actual people who can read nip tend to not project, anon.
>>158523227
Basically Jojo with waifus but with poor execution
>>158524202
>>Deen
>>doing something right
Yes, deen has done some really great shows. Only VN fags hate deen, and VN fags are bad people, so it doesn't count.
>>158530477
Archer himself stated that just simply him killing Shirou wouldn't free him despite the absurdity. He more concerned with taking out his whole frustration on Shirou
>>158569915
>Jojofags