http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/int erest/2017-06-07/nhk-pro

>>158259410
The day when there will be no 2D hand drawn anime, will be the true end of anime. I will never watch anything made in full 3D. Thankfully there is ~5000 interesting series which I didn't watch yet, so, well.

They need to reduce the amount of shit, get better at picking the better shows and don't let directors fuck up the endings.

We are at like a bubble with the most amount of series running each session. Anything week get greenlighted. It has to burst at some point, then the industry will mature.

Their utter incompetence when it comes to monetizing anime overseas is pretty impressive.
Oh well, spend all your time memorizing kanji so you dont have time to learn english so its impossible for you to consider pursuing business opportunities in the rest of the world.
Japan made its own mess.

>>158260957
They did fine with their games. Also,
>wanting anime to be popular overseas

>>158259410
After KF I'm not as worried about this as I used to be. Still sucks though.

>>158260957
Oh look, it's the monolingual language expert.

>>158261799
Oh right, its not that they cant monetize because of incompetence, they CHOOSE not to monetize their work abroad because they dont need dirty gaijin dollars.

>Because production committees hold IP licenses, as well as merchandising and distribution rights, profits from anime productions fail to reach studios.

No wonder based KyoAni decided to look for their own source material rather than keep on relying on Kadokawa

>>158262252
Now you're getting it.

>>158259410
Sasuga Nippon, willing to go down with their sinking ship as long as they get to keep drawing moeshit and not cater to gaijin.

>>158261751
>I hate making money

>>158262546
>don't invest
>waaaah waah they don't gift me momey because of my lack of confidence in projects I partake in
Why are Tokyo based studios so goddamn stupid?

>>158263977
Do you think gaijin, as opposed to otaku, are willing to buy a 80$ BD volume containing only 2 episodes 6 fucking time if they stopped drawing moeshit?

>>158265557
Otaku only do it because jap goverment treats piracy as seriously as murder cases.

>>158265917
It's the best way to support a show

>>158259410
>anime will die in your lifetime
Good

Isn't there more anime being produced now than ever? They're just encouraging otaku to panic buy.

>>158265917
You aware half the traffic from nyaa was from Japan?

>>158266054
This.

>>158266131
Are you implying that nip otakus are serial killers?

>>158259410
>no more half assed adaptations and more original work
wew

So finally I can leave 4chan and kill myself for good

>>158266120
That doesn't mean anything.
In 2000 there were more new websites per month then ever before.
Mid-90s the american market was choked full with comic series.
In fact, look up the comic book crash, that might be what's happening now.
Usually it wouldn't be that much of an catastrophe. But we live in horrible times, the times of cheap and horrible looking 3DCG. If something like this happens now, good bye.
I mean, I loved KF, but it still looked bad. It would have been charming if we didn't have to worry about the end of animu that doesn't look like pixarshitney.

>>158261799
>everybody on 4chan is from burgerland

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>>158259410
if animation were not sweatshop-tier slavery we would not need to have this conversation

They could just actually start paying animators more than McDonalds cashiers

>>158259410
Lmao are they admitting defeat from the Chinese animation market? They better not

>>158265917
>implying

Nyaa pantsu crashed several times because there were 6 million japs simultaneously visiting the website

>>158266466
I dont understand how anyone can survive in japan with the animators paycheck.
Id rather be a nurse wiping the ass of an elderly than be an animator in japan.

>>158259410
The studios simply need better deals.
getting them isn't simple, however.,

>>158266625
I wonder how many nips committed suicide after nyaa went down if they're that desperate.

So if anime dies would manhwa be allowed here? And why not rename it to manga and manhwa while we're at it.

>>158266630
My guess is 9400$ is what they would get if they were working on one show at a time.

>>158266717
Any asian cartoon/comic is already allowed here.

I feel like none of you retards read the article. The market for anime is doing fine. The staff behind anime is treated like dog shit, though. This isn't anything new, but if they don't get their shit together you can expect your waifus to actually end up in the trash.

>>158266466
Yes, because union rates certainly helped expand american animation houses and didnt directly cortelate with all animation moving over seas or to flash at all.

>>158266466
>>158266903
The low end is distorted by the pay scales of temporary outsourcing of animation to SE Asia, specifically Dragon Ball Super's use of Philippine artists. It brought the average wage (and quality) down considerably.

>>158266903
It's $9400 a year. It's just that shit.

>http://en.rocketnews24.com/2017/05/19/studio-ghibli-director-hayao-miyazaki-cancels-retirement-hires-artists-for-last-feature-film/
>employees will receive a monthly salary of 200,000 yen (US$1,797)

Even student with McJob earn more than $2k a month
If Hayao fucking Miyazaki can't pay you more than $2k a month then what does that mean for other studio ?

>>158259410
This is textbook market saturation. They either need to start increasing their market (targeting foreign people for sales) or the anime market will eventually collapse, many studios will close and the industry will shrink.

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>>158259410
>retarded studios can't invest and want sympathy

This is why GODANI is on it's way to the top along with Toei who makes $billions.

>>158264034
It's not in our interest for them to make money that way. Catering to the west means catering to (((them))).

>>158259410
>muh contracted Studio
That's why KyoAni move from that shit.

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Good, current anime needs to dies.

>hey guys, let's make 95% of our shows about FUCKING HIGH SCHOOL and pander to marginal creepy disgusting "muh pure virgin seiyuus!" NEETS with no money nor income and just make no effort to sells to that fucking hugeload market outside of our GLORIOUS NIPPON country we so fucking love and love to remind us in our shows because our economic model is totally not fucked and birthrate dying. Yeah fucking brilliant!

Thank fuck for mangas...

>>158259410
The problem is the current wealth distribution on how anime works. As already noted, the anime industry is EXTREMELY profitable, BUT, 99% of ALL the money goes to some fat bald faceless man who owns the publishing rights and is in charge of "distribution of services". I WONDER where I HAVE heard of such a awful distribution scheme before?

Explains all the faceless men doujin, they represent the 1% publisher board members and how they cuck the entire industry out of every penny.

>>158267399
>>>/co/

>>158267399
>mangas

>>158267399
What fucking time capsule you are in? Look at the most profitable new franchise anime that recently spawn and tell me which is them follow the ancient high school battle harem THAT FINANCIALLY succeeded.

CR viewing demographics is a good financial bar to see the average popularity vs. profitability of a series and most of these "moeshit" are just glorified ads for the the LN or manga series nowadays. The publishers rake shitton cash for liscense tie-in and external good sales, that is why studio make crap all because the anime doesnt really "EXPLICITLY" make money, the 3rd party wares do.

>>158267399
Thank god for those manga that do essentially the same thing. You reek of stupidity.

Anime studios should be more adventurous and try to invest some dosh into their anime. Well, at least the most promising looking ones.
They could end up successful like Kyoani or fail like Gonzo, it's a risk but it's a necessary one to survive at this point.

The low wages is the critical problem and it can't be solved unless anime stops being niche and becomes mainstream enough so it can afford a decent budget.
It's this way due to the production committee system, to lower the risks and prevent flops from outright bankrupting the investors. Anime had to have a pathetic budget that a bunch of investors can afford, while producing as many diverse anime as possible, if 1 out of 10 succeed, the returns from the expensive BDs and merchandise are able to cover the losses and then some.
So for the producers it helps to make as much as possible there is no reason not to, but that only keeps the stress on anime studios and reduces the quality of anime tremendously.

The anime industry is like a giant pachinko machine for the producers, they keep gambling until they get a hit.

The industry collapsing is obviously not a good thing, but with luck it'll provide the opportunity to create a more sustainable model. I'd love to see something like just a handful of smaller studios with permanent employees.

>>158266382
>it looked bad
It was the least repulsive cg anime I've ever seen so it looked good to me.

>muh industry
feels good to be a normalfag.

>>158267691
That's exactly what it needs.

>>158267399
Kill yourself retard.

>>158267691
I don't understand why they don't have a CR equivalent and/or make ad money. The fact of the matter is that if you keep shitting on animators and keep trying to sell $100 blu-rays to otaku neets it's just not going to work in the long run.

>>158267399
>dies
>mangas
Kill yourself, my man.

>>158267791
I never understood why people like anime. It's either chu2 shit or self-fulfillment stories with Beta MC. Both having shit writing.

Anime is the most dispensable medium, it didn't produce much "art" nor any worthwhile entertainment.

It's shit.

>>158267955
>any worthwhile entertainment
Is there even any "worthwhile" entertainment?

As long as Sunrise give me more Love Live, the rest can fuck off.

>>158268061
Jerking off.

>>158267938
My likely-wrong and ignorant guess would be that things just work in a certain way right now and can't be shifted without damaging the delicate balance things are currently in. And are blurays really such a major source of income? Seems unlikely.

>>158267938
They do have something. http://www.daisuki.net/. Hasn't taken off at all even 2 years on, and I think Bandai Namco just bought all the other original partners out, but it's there. They even relatively recently added a subscription service, I subscribed, don't mind throwing $5 a month at it, even if I never use it. Not going to watch anything streaming, I still prefer fansubs, but if the money does go more directly to the source, even if it is the productions companies taking the majority off it, I don't mind paying. They really should have pushed this way harder and only offered shows through it, instead of giving licenses to CR, etc. How they expected their own competitor site to get popular when they still give shows away to their own competition, I don't understand.

>>158266120
>what is peak production
>what is audience fatigue

>>158268062
>Love Live
It's dead, jim.

>2017
>still watching shitnime
Well deserve, fucking weebs.

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>>158268062

>>158268121
Weird
I'll probably sub later.

>>158268114
>such a major source of income
Not technically, but the thing is that the animation industry doesn't really work in terms of net profit, a lot of the sales from figs and stuff never make it to the places that are actually relevant.

>>158259410
So what keeps it all rolling? New hires being completely ill-informed about what it's like to work for studios? If the studios are getting shafted I imagine some will close down, and there will generally be less anime produced, but perhaps with better wages.

>>158266630
Social housing + unhealthy diet comprised of skipping meals and instant noodles.

>>158268154
Fucking /v/ and their love for shit that you need to add "shit" into everything that you say.

>>158267938
They already have a CR equivalent. It doesn't make them much money because they never seem to care about it. Besides, anime that sells a shit ton of BDs is popular across all forms. Merch, streaming, vidya, ect.

However, nips are starting to take BiliBili seriously, it's the only streaming platform that gets them impressive enough numbers that doesn't account as more pocket change money.

Chinks are cucking the western fanbase for anime producers' attention. CR has been there for fucking forever and nothing came of it. Now japs are seriously pandering to chinks and we're getting collabs and actual chink anime every season.

>>158266946
they're often shitposted to death while the few with actual discussion are drowned out.

>>158267955
What are you doing here then?

>>158268121
There's literally no titles on that site, no surprise it hasn't taken off.

>>158268218
Bilibili is Chinese right? It's basically Chinese Niconico?
I mean I guess if the Chinese prop up the anime industry for a bit longer it's not really a big deal for now.

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>>158268151
>dead

>>158259486
>The day when there will be no 2D hand drawn anime, will be the true end of anime
RIP Anime, 195something - late 2000s

>>158259410
tl;dr: a bunch of problems KyoAni doesn't suffer from.
>in the future the only anime will be KyoAnime
I do not see a problem.

>>158268151
>the most successful anime franchise
>dead
No way fag

>>158268218
I guess I'd rather have that over them pandering to CR. It's not too different from niconico where KF made a lot of money.

>>158259410
Good fucking riddance. Also, why do you start those threads always with picture of some slice of tumour show? Do you hate being taken seriously that much, manchildren

Sure is summer here

>>158266625
Can't they make their own website?

>>158266630
Turboautism and usually living alone.

>>158259410
Someone post the Renge with the upsidedown eyes.

>>158268413
I know right? How is your break going?

Quit samefagging Kyoanishitter.
Chinkdragon was shit.

>>158268398
Slice of tumour is the most childis thing I've read all day. Way to fuck over your own ignorant opinion.

Maybe if they stopped animating dead trend anime and actually had some taste, they wouldn't be in such a slump.

>>158268477
Don't give him attention.

>>158268485
2017 has been one of the best years since 2011. The only problem here is animators are treated like shit you retarded tripfag.

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>>158259410
Walk tall, incompetent anime industry leaders.Walk tall and realize you have nobody but yourselves to blame for your incompetence and the dying of the industry. Luckily, it could still be revived, if people stopped fucking up so harshly.

>>158268121
Yup, Daisuki is the big Japan streaming site for us foreign devils. The problem is the terrible lack of lineup.

I don't mind watching that shit with commercials since the money goes to Japan, the problem is that there is only so many times you can watch Ero Manga Sensei, Idolmaster, Zestria X and Grandblue Fantasy.

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Hey

>>158268182
Yeah, like I said, not really interested if it's streaming, even if the quality is good(and they do offer 1080p), but it's at least something else on the side, other than whatever figs/imported manga I already get.

>>158268257
That's what I mean though. If you looked at the original partners, I think they're still officially part of it, the buy out happens a bit later, they were basically all the big players in the industry. They could have right then just decided to fuck over CR and Funi and keep all their shows for this, and the people who use those services would have no choice but to switch. Hell, again, it may be streaming but I have no problem paying these guys. But for some reason they kept and still keep licensing out their shows to others.

>>158261751
>They did fine with their games
Yeah, once they realized arcade was dying, handhelf consoles were made obsolete by phones and multiplayer had made PC ports not just necessary but vital.
And many once important devs nd studios died in the process.
>wanting anime to be popular overseas
It will need to be if studios want to keep the same production output going. You can't indefinitly crank up the production prices while refusing investments AND refusing to expand your market. One of these would be bad enough, but both is just suicide.

>>158260957
true

lmao animeonlyfags on suicide watch

>>158266466
They could save $600K to share among their employee for every HanaKana that they don't hire. Literal who VAs are better anyway. They sound fresher than that one whore you already previously heard 40 other times

>>158260957
They should just take a lesson from the chinks when it comes to making money and sell to them too, iirc the chinks are super fucking weeb when it comes to anime (even if Chinanime is also catching on there).

>>158268590
Yeah, I really don't understand their intentions with the site. Why come up with your own alternative, if you keep handing out your licenses to the people you should be trying to compete against?

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>>158268196
At least they have Cup Noodle, the Ultimate Flavor Experience™ to satisfy them in their times of need.

>animeshitters on suicide watch
Glorious

>>158267399
I've seen posts showing statistics of Japanese birth rate compared to other European countries. Surprise Surprise its at a similar level and even higher than some.

>>158268580
There was maybe 2-3 shows that people will remember from Winter 2017. Don't kid yourself.

>>158268765
Japanese birth rates aren't even the lowest in Asia, Korea is a full 0.2 lower in TFR.

>>158266412
That's what americucks unironically believe.

>>158259410
>Studio who only rely on contract dying
That's why they should invest on their own title and put their name in the Committee, like KyoAni or Toei.

>>158268765
Doesn't say much since the european countries it overtook were also among the top-10 lowest birthrates.
1.4 is stil far, far below replacement rate.

Socialize anime.

>>158268062
>As long as Sunrise give me more Mai Hime, the rest can fuck off.
Fixed

>>158268830
but anon, what will the investers think?
really funny how hollywood and anime are having the same exact problem at the same exact time for similar reasons

>>158268770
Alright let's hear them. I'll give you maidragon even though I didn't like it.

>>158268831
Meanwhile Korea is at 1.25 or some shit.

DVD prices are also insane for the average consumer. It is only a matter of time before it bursts.

>>158268914
Yeah, but nobody cares about Korea.
Which is good, because the deeper you dig into it, the worse it gets. It's like everything wrong with Japan, except cranked up all the way to eleven.

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>>158268906
Fuuka :^)

>>158268906
Konosuba S2
Little Witch Academia
Kemono Friends
And since this is 4chan, maybe Gabriel Dropout.

>>158269018
new Street Fighter anime financed by Capcom's booming profit

>>158268597
>biggest hit since love live
I'm glad CG animators aren't treated like shit. Anime has a future.

>>158268983
What's wrong with the gooks?

>>158269068
Damn I was expecting a retarded answer. I don't know about TV LWA though.

>>158267399
Yeah? And who is the Japanese studio supposed to pander to?
Reminder that Americans and Europeans are also getting fucked in terms of birthrate, with negative interest rates money pumping economies that deflate most 70% of their populations' savings.
Also, pandering to the Western fanbase is pure bullshit. All you'll get are studio execs saying "sorry we did not know you dirty gaijin cannot stand fanservice and really brutal story themes, because puritanical feminism."

Besides, there is no market in the West that would spend 100 bucks for 2 episodes, nor are you taking into account that non-Japanese distributors take a shitload of money to get those things to foreign markets.
>>158268121
Daisuki is a shit streaming service.
It's like how Funimation has a streaming service but really, really shit.
Funi had shows I really would have liked to watch, but the quality was so atrocious, I didn't even watch it even for free.
If it's that shit, it's no wonder Daisuki went nowhere fast.

>>158259410
Why do people believe fearmongering so easily?
Anime isn't going anywhere

I blame nips sense of businesses. Is terrible. Country is in a fucking deflationary process, That doesn't fucking happen

They could make a shit-ton of money for this monopoly they have that has popularity around the world, yet, their own stupidity and hate for gajins will make them fall, and I'm not talking only about the anime industry.

t. Economicsfag

>>158259410
>literally 50 full-ength anime being made some seasons
>ANIME IS GOING TO DIE
No.

>>158269095
>even stronger rural and small-town exile to even fewer towns, Seoul and Busan (plus their respective metropolitan areas) alone gather 60% of the country's population
>even stronger dependance on food import
>exports are almost entirely comprised of transformed products made from imported raw materials, only exception is oil
>even worse relations with neighbouring countries (lol North Korea)
>as pointed out, dangerously low birthrate and very little inceptives to reverse the movement - if anything the constant handouts and social advantages encourage women to live alone longer while forming a family does not represent much of a social advantage
>potential reunification with the North would create a situation like the german reunification, except even harder to manage

>>158269068
I want to watch kemono friends now

>>158269375
>I don't know what peak production is
We're in 1981 and every big pop success is heavily inspired by disco, it's the most common genre in production and the most represented. Clearly it's not going anywhere.

>>158259410
>Japanese anime

>>158266466
If animation were not sweatshop-tier slavery, because the industry as we know it wouldn't exist to begin with

>>158269357
Oh fuck off
Look at Hollywood and what happened when they started pandering to people who weren't fans and trying to reach a larger audience
I'd rather see anime die than turn into a zombie

>>158269388
Not him. But you forgot to mention.
That sk has the highest suicide rate in Asia.
Yes. Currently topping Japan.
t.gook

>>158269357
>hate for gaijins
>wanting Japan to pander to gaijins

O

>>158269512
Heard that South Korea has almost as shit a work culture as Japan, because it's even more overpopulated there. Too many competitors in the labor market.

>>158269465
Oh yeah, burgers had shit taste and caused a local market crash because contrarianism was taken to extremes
The rest of the world meanwhile kept going

>>158269521
>>158269485

That's business nigga, adapt or die. Investors doesn't give a fuck if you niggas like it or not.
The best case scenario is having zombie anime with a couple of jewels each year (like it fuckings happens already) than having no anime at all, or gook/chink "anime"

>>158269569
Yep.

>>158269068
>Flop Witch Academia

>>158269621
No anime is better, Japs would rather let it die than give in to foreigners fortunately
There is still honor in this world

>>158269465
Anon, a genre going out of style is not the same as what OP's article is suggesting. An industry that has always had terrible working conditions, and is currently bigger than it's ever been, is not suddenly going to disappear because of those conditions. There is a massive amount of "buffer space" - production could go down 70% and still be greater than what it was 20 years ago.

>>158269558
MY

>>158259410
Good anime needs to die.Or stop pandering to horny neets. The former will happen long before the latter

>>158269621
I'm sorry, but sucking up to stupid Western values would make anime no different than the capeshit we have now in the West, where cartoons are either mostly dirty jokes (as in disgusting fart jokes) or considered works for Disney tier PG shit.
Anime works with a lot of themes, most of them clearly unacceptable to be considered as animation.
Anime would be sanitized to the point of insanity if it pandered to non-Japanese.

>>158267666

>>The low wages is the critical problem and it can't be solved unless anime stops being niche and becomes mainstream enough so it can afford a decent budget.

If you;re mainstream, there's less freedom.

>>158269837
>>158269675
No one said they have to suck into West values, only have better distribution into the West market. Even Trigger said that they know the west like their series, but they aren't trying to pander them as they like when they do stuff for Japan.

Really, we japanese studios making shit into the west instead of pseudo "anime" stuff coming from the west. *cof cof* RWBY *cof cof*

>>158269747
RUBBER

>>158259410
And /a/ will call out these poor people as "pussies" because being fucked by the company/higher up is the right thing.

Never change /a/, never change.

>>158270070
NEN

>>158267184
Too many animators around and too many studios. And the bigger middle-tier studios are making the mistake of trying to keep the smaller low-tier studios alive, because of their socialist pact.
As nice as it is that they're all helping each another out, at some point, they just gotta realize that they can't save everyone.

Most animators should start look for a normal job and do animation as a part-time work.

>>158268718
Goddammit.

>>158268193
Of course. Young adults with genuine autism are the lifeblood of the animation studios in Japan.

>>158270070
SUMMER

>>158270238
They do have the option to form an union.
Their own fault for not wanting to do that and keeping the system going on in the hope that somebody else will step in and save them.

>>158270361
>just get a jerb, japs!
Japan's been in a state of economic malaise since the fucking 90s, and it's only getting worse.
The very economic policies the US and Europe are using now, Japan has used decades before, and it's still in a lot of shit right now. It's not as easy as just get a fucking job.

I feel bad for the Japanese animation industry. The outsourcing also isn't helping the lower level workers.

>>158270673
They wanted to become betaomega-otaku animators by their own choice instead of beta sarariman who at least will get a waifu to fuck and their own home to live in.

>>158262546
Just wish they could find some better writers.

>>158269157
It's expectedly episodic. I've only seen 8 episodes though.

>>158270017
Things are fine the way they are, there's no need to be greedy and demand money

>>158266466
Don't non-senior seiyuu also earn peanuts? And also, as seiyuu gain seniority, their roles magically decrease.

>>158270940
Catch up and be disappointed.

>>158268328
You know what I mean, just stop nitpicking

>>158267666
>anime needs to stop being niche

B-BUT MUH NORMIES

>>158270017
Tbf RWBY is selling better overall than most anime in general, albeit mostly because shorter episodes/seasons most of the time. Wouldn't shock me if 11s Tried to copy such a success this way.

>>158270993
Of course things are fine for the filthy rich producers.
But they still want even more money.
There's only so much you can force the studio execs into accepting the lowest pay ever now.
So pandering to China and America it is.

>>158270238
Or they'll blame it on the Jews that make up less than 1% of Japan's population.

>>158270811
The nips are actually outsourcing first towards other nips who work for spare pockets.
Then, after it's clear that there's still not enough shit-tier nip animators to do all the inbetweens for the show that the studio has promised will have all episodes finished by the time the broadcast sarts, the studios then outsource other work to other cheap Asians.

Only superior western inbetweening software (still in development) that will make all SEA-animators and the low-tier nip animators superfluous will change things.
Better for the consumers, since there will be less QUALITY. Worse for the workers, since they are even less useful.

>>158271309
Or they just accept how things are now and don't get unseasonably greedy

>>158271723
The producers are always greedy and want more money. MOTTO!

It's not going to be a bunch of losers here on /a/ who will convince them that they should or shouldn't pander to foreigners for whatever reason. Money is driving force in business.

>>158271865
Except it's not
They're gonna keep squeezing it until they can, then it'll die, they won't sell out to the west
Economists always ignore emotional reactions and consider people as having no values or principles

>>158271981
>and consider people as having no values or principles
Because when it comes to finance, banking, and investments, people have no principles.
And no, the pure honorable nipponjin are no better.

Forgive my ignorance, but couldn't the industry do with a little downsizing to begin with? There's no reason to have 40+ weekly 25 minute shows every season. It makes sense why the majority of them don't turn a profit.

>>158272373
A market never downsizes itself. Ever.
An outer incentive or order has to come first, because no one wants to be the guy who admits he just isn't good enough to keep up with the pace or has lost focus.

>>158268658
How do you expect to actually sell BDs with VA handshake events, anon? No one is going to buy your overpriced shit with literal whos.

>>158272373
Sure, but you gotta remember you're dealing with people's livelihoods here.

>>158272462
>BD sales
>relevent
only music sales are lower in terms of revenue for a franchise

>>158272081
Then please explain why anime has not done this already?
If you look at historical data the foreign income for the industry has shrunk and is only very recently getting big again
They don't care and it makes more sense to focus on repeat consumers than on the fickle masses

>>158272462
How much moolah do they make at handshake events? Not even that many, I'm willing to bet. Surely not worth more than $600K?

>>158272624
>Then please explain why anime has not done this already?
Mostly because there are no export networks in place, and Japan is notoriously bad at setting these up outside of manufactured products.
Thus far, exported shows have mostly been exported at the demand of the destination, so to speak, and many of them have been very successful. In terms of both public reception and profitability.
What this means is that the importers take what they want based onpercieved demand, while the providing source does nothing in fear that it wouldn't work. The risk of setting up the network, translating things themselves, evaluating foreign markets and what products are fitting for what market was long seen as too big a risk (again, despite the few attemnts by importers being highly succesful) and has created a status-quo in which exporting your product by your own initiative is seen as an unnecessary risk.
Anime is currently facing a huge potential gain, all it really requires is for someone to take the risk of exporting instead of relying on importers.

>>158272624
>They don't care and it makes more sense to focus on repeat consumers than on the fickle masses
well you just answered your own question. There has been no reason to take risks. Nothing to do with an aversion to "selling out". If the studios demand more money then producers will accept more risk if it's a chance to avoid shrinking profits.

>>158272828
And what makes you think anyone will actually try?
It's a colossal gamble that can just blow up in their faces
Also markets are way too different for them to actually succeed
>>158272945
Then they'll keep milking the otaku market
Why try chasing other people when you have a loyal fanbase?

>>158272624
>it makes more sense to focus on repeat consumers than on the fickle masses
Stagnation and a market wit hat best a stable size are incompatible with an increase in production cost.
And there is an increase in production costs.
Hence two possibilities : broaden your distribution to reach a larger market and get a more profitable product, OR keep things going and wonder why investers are leaving when you ask more money from them while the profits do not increase.
>inb4 "but the profits do increase"
Yes, largely because of the chinese market. If that's not "fickle masses" then I don't know what is.

>>158267610
arent most anime studios commissioned to make anime anyway, so they get paid their money regardless of how well or bad it does?

>>158273061
Again, there are more anime made mow then ever before
And late night anime has surpassed day time anime production in numbers
It's not going anywhere

>>158273021
Did you even read the OP article? Studio execs are becoming unhappy with the cut they get and the actual workers are in an even worse spot. If the studios start demanding significantly more money for their role, the rightsholders need to boost sales or accept lower profits. I'll bet on the former.

>>158273021
>And what makes you think anyone will actually try?
Nothing, and that's their loss.
>It's a colossal gamble that can just blow up in their faces
Tough shit. If you're afraid of risks and losses, never get into business or investment, go work for the state. You cannot be on any market if you are not ready to take any gamble, or if you do, do not ever expect to turn in much of a profit. You can't create profit out of nothing, you need investment, and every investment is a risky gamble in itself. That's the law of the market for you.
>Also markets are way too different for them to actually succeed
Because as we know, Dragon Ball did not work well at all on european and american TV back in the 80s, neither did Sailor Moon.
Anime could do very well on many foreign markets, someone just has to take the plunge. all it would take is one successful export and significant profit, and trust me everyone would suddenly hop onto the new bandwagon.
Americans once had the same doubts about their movies in the 50s and Hollywood largely believed export would be a net loss.
Look at it now.
>Why try chasing other people when you have a loyal fanbase?.
Because a loyal fanbase is only profitable if you keep your production costs stable which just isn't the case.
>>158273211
Yes, that's mostly because in order to increase profitability on each production, the workforce is being paid less and less in order to churn out more and more material to make sure you will turn in some form of profit in the end.

>>158273261
So more bonuses in the bd, look at granblue selling like crazy
>>158273339
You're talking bullshit
Mecha anime was fucking huge in Europe
You do don't need to waste money pandering to a market that isn't there, western culture isn't gonna make anime money except for very few titles, the tastes are too different, we're talking stuff like GuP outselling SAO even though the western reaction was completely different

>>158273655
>except for very few titles
Yeah, like for any other market. all products are not going to turn in as much, that much is fucking obvious, thanks for pointing it out. We're not talking about exporting a whole market, that never happens in any domain, ever.
Also, foreign markets are not limited to the west. There isn't that much to gain in the west anyway, China is the big juicy cash cow for media export.
Plus, exporting a product will only require some "pandering" (whatever that means) if the product itself isn't good enough.
Why do I have to explain you so many basic things?

>>158268110
Can't argue with that.

>>158273820
Because pandering means turning it into a zombie
General audiences have utterly incompatible taates with anime so you'd need to twist the products into something unrecognizable
And don't forget, anime is a peculiar industry, the people working in it don't exactly do it for money but for passion, at least at lower levels
By otakus for otakus
So the otakus are gonna get mad for being told to do shit that doesn't pander to themselves, and the studio that tries this madness will get fucked up real hard, and become a warning sign to the rest of the industry

>>158259410
man, i fucking hate renchong now.
fucking pantsudev and that shitty website

>>158268218
Makes sense, China is a bigger market than EU+USA and they are culturally closer as well.

>>158266466
delet this you fucking commie REEEE

>>158272687
Seiyuu don't typically have hand shake events anyway.

>>158268376
This.

>>158267666
Shush shush, Anon. Just enjoy Eromanga-Sensei and laugh at what the normalfags will simply miss out on. This is all sustainable.

>>158268479
stay buttmad fag

>>158273820
>China is the big juicy cash cow for media export
It is also the motherlode of piracy and government-imposed nationalism (especially against Western productions), one has to wonder how well the Japs would do by "directly" competing in that market, especially given their previous enmity. Something tells me they have the potential to find a way to better exploit that market than the West can, but what would be the advantage factors?

Proximity? Them being Asian too? Perhaps a more thorough understanding of the Chinese market over time?

Good, maybe now /a/ will cut back on the degeneracy and improve themselves.

>>158274577
Exactly, anon. Anime will die any day now

>>158274921
Good, /a/ is cucking themselves with how degenerate modern anime is. Anime used to encourage improving yourself but now it just encourages degenerate hedonism.

>>158274652
>It is also the motherlode of piracy
Not anime but steam has a VERY dedicated chinese userbase to anything anime (and lewd).

>and government-imposed nationalism
They are also the one that buy chinese games in drove, literally no one else buy them.

>Proximity?
It helps with importing stuff.

>Them being Asian too?
China and Japan are culturally very close or at least they were until the West came for them.

>>158259486
There isn't anything inherently wrong with 3DCG anime though.

>>158274221
>Because pandering means turning it into a zombie
Again, define pandering. If by that you mean "changing the content superficially to please an audience you don't know well", then all the recent examples in big american movies would prove that it just doesn't work, and it is already starting to disappear. Because cultural goods are not conviniences that can be altered like that, and "exotic value" can actually be an inc redibly good selling argument.
>General audiences have utterly incompatible taates with anime
Anime is not a product directed to general audiences in the first place.
Yes, even in Japan.
The works that are are well known for that and there is just a dozen of them.
>And don't forget, anime is a peculiar industry
I'm not. You are.
>>158274652
>It is also the motherlode of piracy and government-imposed nationalism
Didn't stom Marvel movies of the WoW movie from reaching absurdly high profit margins.
>but what would be the advantage factors?
See, anime is globally known and it has pockets of audiences worldwide, its reputation alone preceeds it and would insure a certain core audience. It's not so much a matter of market as it is product in this case. I was giving China as an example not because it would phase particularly well in that market, but because the sheer size of it makes it a market with high potential for return on investment.

>>158259410
this isnt a bad thing, Japan truly needs reinvent himself. Hopefully they say goodbya to the modern slavery ANDA racism

>>158275319
And kanji.
If South Korea could get rid of it, so can Japan.

>>158275099
>Didn't stom Marvel movies of the WoW movie from reaching absurdly high profit margins.

No, the chink gov takes away all the profits and merchandise rights, all you get is a small check while they keep all the money.
Kimi no na Wa producers only made $ 2 million from china despite the success, the chinese market is garbage.

>>158275319
i hate my phone too

>>158275319
Modern slavery? Modern racism? What are you talking about?

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>>158259410
>Japanese anime has no future'."
>Anime will die in your life time

>>158275693
free at last

>animators paid like shit because they're replaceable
>worried that the industry will run into trouble because they run out of animators

From an economic standpoint that is pretty much a self correcting problem, because if you do actually start running out of staff you're going to have to offer more pay to get them. The old fucks are worried about a generational skill gap where the turnover rate becomes too high for current animators to learn skills from the old generation but that may or may not actually happen or matter.

>>158259410
>anime has no future
They've been saying that for 40 years.

>Japanese anime has no future
Ooooh, wait, I see now. They just want US mega corporations to fund their productions and make more profits by also pandering to Western markets instead of just Japan.

Man, the 2020 Olympic Games will be huge. The purge of all the normal male otaku will by then be complete, and then only the cool new hipster otaku that Japan wants to present will be around. Cool, young, sociable.
The government could however sped up the process by giving fake incentives to the male otaku by tricking them go work at those anime studios and then just let them die from overwork.
This way, the economy profits, the undesirables are dead, and nobody is to blame for people dying.

>>158276200
2020 is gonna be about Japan embracing otaku culture

>>158259410
>pandering exclusively to lonely virgin otaku NEETs and pedos isn't a viable long term business model

Who saw this coming? Damn. I thought moeshit was the future of anime guys!

3D did nothing wrong

>>158267167
Man Japan is pretty sad place to live if you don't have proper job, no idea why westerns romanticise the place

here's good video about how being poor in japan kills the soul
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH-kNnq7mFM

>>158276335
It will be a new otaku culture. One that has cute fashionable girls and young handsome guys doing totally kawaii funny stuff and cute cosplayers.
None of those unattractive male autist-shitters.

>>158266466
why the fuck you'd pay that much for a-list voice actor
what the fuck is wrong with Japans

>>158275693
Otakus can finally start killing themselves because there's no new episodes to wait for

>>158276554
That's not any crazier than what Hollywood does

>>158275681
search work culture, japan is afraid of gaijins stealibg his work and chicks

>>158276554
Brings in lots of fans who will buy the work associated with that top-tier actor, music discs, radio shows and stuff.
The closest that the anime industry has to actual superstars deserve to earn more than all the animators in the entire country together.
In fact, animators should feel honored they're allowed to create mouth flaps that will be voiced by a high tier seiyuu and exchange their entire pay for several discs of the anime featuring the seiyuu talking a little bit.

>>158276554
It's their income not their salary you tard. That's also the top 0.1%, and I might note that's also why there are so many shows made every season with a cast of literal whos.

>>158276540
That's not gonna tone down anything nor sanitize it
I'm not even autistic, I'm just very rude and sarcastic, and true autists will just stay holed up at home anyway

What will you do when anime becomes 3D?

>>158278119
read manga

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>>158278119
Depends on what kind if 3D?
If it looks like pic related I'm all for it

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>>158278406
disgusting

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>>158278497
Hey don't talk shit about Lumina

>>158276554
Why does any performer get a ton of money?

Is not just the anime industry
All salarymen are extremely stressed out and hate life

>>158278406
They should just digitize kpop idols.
Though I suppose at that point everyone would have the same face...

Well, kinda like 2D anime I suppose.

>>158278981
I see nothing wrong with this
Digital idols will still have motion capture and the voice of the idol, but it'll be improved and forever perfect

>>158259410
They just need to restructure their finances and marketing, that's all.

>>158268257
>Bilibili is Chinese right? It's basically Chinese Niconico?
Yes

>I mean I guess if the Chinese prop up the anime industry for a bit longer it's not really a big deal for now.
Luckily, Chinese are not yet brainwashed by feminism, so we don't have to worry about creativity being limited like we would if Japanese animators started pandering to Westerners.

>>158259410
The day more than a show or two a season uses CG is the day I will admit that anime has no future. Until then, I think they are being melodramatic, and need to change their profit model. Making their BDs and figmas and shit easier to buy, and making legal anime downloads available for a couple bucks an episode would help immensely.

>>158267955
Its context for the doujins so fapping will feel better. Thats why I watch anyways.

>>158279549
No we only have to worry about the government limiting creativity.

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>Industry scales down significantly
>Produces less, but better shows
>The same amount of neetbux are distributed so studios make a better return on each show they produce

Basic economics. The worst thing will be that a handful of studios will get a monopoly and nobody else will be able to afford breaking out.

Crowd sourcing might also provide a future for anime, so expect more masterpieces like Mayoiga.

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>not saving the industry

>>158279774
>Crowd sourcing might also provide a future for anime

Even if it can't entirely fund a show, it might help make an idea less of a risk for a studio and incentivise them to take a risk. Or it may give them an idea of the actual support a show has for a future season, like what happened with Wakfu.

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>>158275066

>>158280270
Is there anything in this that doesn't look like complete shit?

>>158280524
Nope

I can't stop watching

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>>158280524
no

>>158280586
That has to be edited. I refuse to believe that is really in the show.

>>158280545
You poor soul. Being a Berserk fan must truly be suffering.

>>158279680
This. A lot of shit is going to be riddled with Chinese propaganda, therefore limiting its range of appeal.

>>158267399
>bait

Good job

>>158278402
wise words

>>158280270
>>158280586
s-surely it has other redeeming factors

>>158280881
the shitposting potential is great

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>>158280881
no

>>158280934
These are so bad theyre making me cry from laughing. How can they fuck up so badly?

>>158276554
Because if they don't, they get Steven Universe level of bad voice acting.

>>158280704
The problem is not so much that the government would demand nationalistic propaganda, it's that the Chinese government agency which approves what shows are allowed to air has guidelines which are more strict and puritanical than the Hays Code and the Comics Code Authority. So we could end up with anime which has most of the violence and fanservice cut out because producers would want it to be able to air in China.

Another problem is that the Chinese government only allows a limited number of foreign movies and TV shows into China because they fear foreign films and TV would overwhelm the domestic industry. One way to get around this rule is through co-productions, which is why we're seeing both Hollywood studios and anime studios partnering with Chinese studios.

Still though, there's only so much shows that would be allowed to air in China, and the Chinese government could cut it all completely in the event there's conflict over the Senkaku Islands or something. This is what happened to South Korea recently. The Chinese government stopped airing K-dramas and canceled K-pop concerts in China in response to South Korea accepting THAAD.

>>158280934
Surely they're just in need of more budget?

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>>158281239
The movie CG looked fine

Well, at least China are already starting to adapt light novels into animation, so if Japanimation does die, we still Chinesenimation

While I still browse /a/ and pick up some recommended manga from time to time, I pretty much stopped watching anime.

Aside that one odd series per season everything is just copy pasta of previous works.

>>158280934
what exactly is going on here?

>yet another BOO HOO MUH WAGES crybaby thread claiming this is going to be the end of anime
No it isn't you dumbfucks. This has been the situation for decades and anime just got bigger and made even more money. Because the people working in anime, even the low level animators, love what they do. If they didn't they would quit. Because it sure as hell isn't the hours or the pay that's keeping them at that job. It's being a part of something they love. And you know why their pay doesn't go up? Because if somebody quits in protest over wages they can replace him in 2 hours tops with somebody waiting in the wings to have his job. That's how competitive it is despite how shitty the working conditions are.

Just stop making these fucking threads, you know fuck all about the market. Know what a real crisis will be? When they have trouble finding new animators. That will be the real death knell to anime.

>>158281504
>Aside that one odd series per season everything is just copy pasta of previous works
That could be said for lots of television series, though.

>>158281354
That's not CG, retard
The movie's CG looked like garbage

>>158279774
That would be shit though. What anime has going for it is that they can make so fucking much of it that all kinds of things can be made, whether they turn out terrible or great. That's also why people masturbate so hard to the 80s OVA boom while quietly trying to ignore the mid-90s except for Eva.

>>158281822
Japan's economy is in the shitters. Any job they can get, they probably would take.

>>158259410
>Better start practicing your CG puppet tween software, Japan.
Why not just practice using actual puppets?

>>158282237
Nice meme.

>>158281822
Just because they love doing their job doesn't mean that they love being paid shit.
On the other hand, it's really not the consumer's duty to give a shit about that. Politicians and studio owners are the ones who need to fix the situation. And the animators themselves.
But they're dumb ultra-wimps.
Makes sense to exploit them that hard. They're practically begging to be robbed.

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Good.

Manga > Visual novels > Light novels > Anime

I have been rewatching some old anime and it's disgusting how little animation the newest ones have.

They should just do visual novels with some animated events here and there. The average anime only has like 2 minutes of actual animation per episode anyways. 90% of viewers are in it for the seiyuu anyways.

Also as someone who has tried to animate before both in 2D and 3D, I know how ridiculously soul crushing is to spend so much time to make 2D look decent. Those animators making less than burger flippers make me ashamed. They should just move on.

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>>158282379
>Light novels > Anime

>>158267776

They looked like bald plastic dolls with tentacle like fingers.

>>158282431
Reading is more engaging that just sitting there and being feed information. Also there is a higher amount of diversity and experimental plots.

>>158282379
Manga is horrible, they all have shit endings and they never end being stretched for as long as possible.
I can only stand comedy manga

>>158282295
Why the fuck do you think they went all out betting their entire future with Abenomics the past half decade? The Japanese have had two lost decades (90s and 00s).
If you try and say the economy has been booming, asset prices rising through money printing doesn't trickle down to most of the Japanese population. It's only the rich getting richer at a worse rate than normal capitalism.
At least with capitalism, shit companies go down and new companies and investors can take their place.
With this crazy money-printing shit, companies that should have collapsed almost 9 years ago are still around with inflated assets on their balance sheets which no one can really buy aside from other rich people.

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>Backgrounds in anime are traced from 3D models
>Characters are traced from 3D models
>Animation is rotoscoped from 3D animation

All of this happens already. There is no reason not to go full 3D now.

>>158280586
there is no fucking way that is real

>>158282680
I'll probably stop watching anime if it goes full 3D. What's the point?

>>158282664
You're right, but I don't think it's so bad that animators can't just quit and get another job. I haven't heard anything about unemployment there.

>>158266466
>700€ a month
>literally (under) welfare level in germany
Is animator a full time job or are they expected to work part time? I can't imagine how you could possibly live with such a piss poor wage.

>>158282735
It's gotten so bad, people rent out holes in the wall and manga kissas as their places of residence.

>>158282724
What's the point of 2D anime nowadays?

>>158282777
It looks infinitely better and allows for a lot more freedom with facial expressions and exaggerated styles that 3D can not.

>>158282777
It copies manga and LN art perfectly well.

>>158282742
Their salary is higher but in Japan new employees get "training and equipment" so those are discounted from their salary.

>>158282680
You're exaggerating how much 3D tracing is used for 2D anime productions. It's only used for scenes with complex camera movements and layouts.

>>158282742
Germany is filled with 400 euro jobs

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>>158282853
Only in static shots, which should be edited and curated by the artists.

2D gets way too different from the reference material during animation.

>>158283032
>ignores my perfectly valid points just to keep wanking on 2D traces

>>158282888
It's more and more nowadays.
Eromanga sensei looks heavily traced.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLLFT4PUuYs

>>158282742
that's about the salary immigrants picking up minijobs get
at least the employment figures look nice

They said the same shit 30 years ago.

>>158283158
CG wasn't a thing 30 years ago.

>>158281822
>When they have trouble finding new animators. That will be the real death knell to anime.
That is already the case with mecha. There are no good mechanical animators anymore. That's why they moved to CG.

>>158283147
That scene was animated by Keisuke Kobayashi, who is a specialist at realistic character animation. Also, it's more practical for animators to use live action footage for reference than to take the time to create and rig a 3D model for the same purpose.

Even Disney, the company that pioneered 2D animation doesn't have the means to make it anymore. Anime fans have also proven that they're willing to accept 3D animation with stuff like Kemono Friends.

While I'm definitely going to miss 2D animation, I don't think it'll spell the death of the industry as some people in the thread are saying.

>>158282905
Probably because you can have a 400€ job and be on welfare at the same time.
>>158283149
My point is that it's ridiculous to work for such a pitiful wage when being jobless is literally a negligible loss.
Not that I know how much welfare you can net in nipland.

>>158283269
>There are no good mechanical animators anymore.
They're still around, but they're getting older. Young, skilled animators still exist but with more productions opting to use CG for any bits of mechanical animation, there's little to no opportunities for young animators to get the experience to animate mecha.

>>158283366
Disney chose not to do it when they saw that 3D movies were making much more money than 2D ones
Is not that they couldnt, is that it would be silly

>>158283206
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gcyZc3bhyM

Doesn't look much worse than Berserk, lel

>>158283269
I think Broken Blade was the last well animated pure 2D mecha

>>158283404
>japan
>welfare

Nice joke

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>>158283526
How can such a creative country not progress at all in 30 years?

>>158280934
I'm convinced 3D can be cute after KF but it will never work out for stuff like Berserk.

>>158283639
>creative

>>158283366
Considering how many people on here can't stand how shitty CG looks, it will. I know I would stop watching anime entirely if it was all CG, unless that CG was Pixar levels of quality. But every CG show has been utter shit.

The only good shows this season are CG heavy
Kado and tsuki ga kirei

So Im being desensitized by them I guess

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>>158283839
>The only good shows this season are CG heavy

>>158283839
And FAG. Year of the CG.

Anime makes way too much money to just fucking disappear.

>>158283760
Well maybe if they switch over to making only CG, the CG will get better

>>158276483
Can't believe I watched the whole thing. Mushroom Man said some deep shit. I still want to visit Nippon, though.

>>158284083
The only way CG will get better is if they spend much more on it, which defeats the purpose of switching to CG to begin with. All a switch to CG will get us are a lot more terrible shows.

>>158282480
>light novels
>diversity

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>>158283839
Don't forget ID-0.

>>158283032
But Meiko has way bigger breasts than that.

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>>158261751
>>wanting anime to be popular overseas
>isolating the rest of your fans from the world

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>>158282292
>Why not just practice using actual puppets?
Fucking this, Puppet Master anime when?

>>158268604
Jap games have never been better then right now

>>158266466
>tfw I make nearly as much as a series director by sitting in my cubicle all day reading Twitter and looking at the occasional Excel spreadsheet
Honestly depressing.

I'll say this.

anime studios"mainly producers" need to negotiate longer contracts for 1-cour series while optimizing the expenditure and development of core animating talent.

Cause they don't get given more that what the stock capital used to make a anime. Which is about 1.2-1.5 million usd while usually not sitting on the committee so no return rev.

CR and the expansion of online streaming won't improve the staff wages, only increase the amount of production stressing the their work force. Unless you make a original IP which becomes a hit, which is pretty unrealistic for many studios.

>>158286257
Yasuhiro Irie, who was part of the NHK program in question, suggested to NHK that doubling the amount given the studios would help for starters though I don't know of the economic reality of anime production will easily allow for that.

>>158265917
>jap goverment treats piracy as seriously as murder cases
I live in Japan and I pirate everyday. There's a reason why a lot of nips uses nyaa you know. There's no risk involved and it's fucking free,

>>158286470
Does the Jap government only monitor JP torrent sites?

>nobody cares about BD sales anymore, its all about merch and streaming now
>muh revenues are up people
>NHK reports industry is actually not doing ell
/a/ needs to make up their mind if anime is dying or not.

>>158286801
There's nothing contradictory if you bothered to read the article. Revenues are increasing, but the problem is very little of it is tricking down to the animation studios.

File: 1474603100410.jpg (72KB, 471x610px) Image search: [Google]

72KB, 471x610px

>>158286918
why don't other studios just follow the Kyoani format already? its proven to work and its not even that expensive considering they buy shit Ip and somehow make more money than Shaft that only produces 50k sellers

>>158287214
>50k sellers
thats the point m8

>>158259410
I hope anime dies so I'm finally freed from this hell.

>>158287214
That means being a significant investor in the project itself which I doubt many studios have the capital to do so. Mind you, it took KyoAni decades to get to where they are now so it's definitely not easy for studios to gain this level of independence.

>>158287302
their 50k sellers translate to less money than a 5k seller if you own the IP. The point of the article is that studios are dying because their cut is too low

>>158287214
they're in kyoto and took years to develop their branding and talent.

And most tokyo studios don't have much left after paying for expenses for the studio and living in tokyo.

But is possible if all the staff formed a momentary syndicate to help fund their own IP and risk it to make a profit but that is a crazy bet imo.

>>158259410
Blame the profit motive. The media cares more about selling cheap animes made by wage slaves than they do making quality stuff. They do this because it's cheaper and makes them some easy money with all the neckbeards that watch anything with fanservice or whitebread protagonists. If the profit motive weren't such an issue, working conditions would be better and they'd make more quality stuff. Then they might have a future after all.