>Rider was the most amazing King that his army followed him

Nasu is a hack. More news at 11

>>158177777
DUDE

>>158177777
>the setting where king Arthur was a little girl and Gilgamesh is a golden faggot who has a submarine isn't historically accurate

whod have thunk it?

>>158177777
Nice quints.

>>158177921
BRO TIER

>>158178014
King Arthur and Gilgamesh are both myths and legends and have some flexibility in how to interpret their stories, but Alexander and his empire is in the actual historical record.

>>158177777
And
>loyal
>kill his family right after his dead

>>158177848
Aren't Servants based on legends and show the Heroic Spirit on their prime?

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>>158178225
There are plenty of myths about Alexander.

>>158177777
King Solomon is actually the most amazing king now.

>>158178225
but Gilgamesh did actually exist - and Uruk did not have spaceships or submarines

Marie Antoinette wasn't a magician, edison wasnt a lion man, tesla couldnt shoot lightning

>>158178654
>edison wasnt a lion man
He wasn't in Fate either, the one you meet in E Pluribus Unum has received gifts from all the presidents of the US, past and future, since individually they couldn't do anything.

>>158178225
But Gilgamesh is in the actual historical record?

>>158178654
>tesla couldnt shoot lightning
But he could have acquired that capability if he had wanted to.

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>>158178573
He's beautiful.

>>158177777
They are called Ionian Hetairoi. They are his elite life guard cavalry, his most loyal troops. They also were cavalry in the LN, no idea why they made them infantry in the anime, probably just easier to animate. Anyway most of his army atthat point was shitty persian mercenaries who did not want to go on a pointless suicide mission

>>158178768
But pretty much everything we know about him is basically fantasy.

>>158177777
Hey, this is not a bad thread, good digits, shouldn't be on page 10

>>158179190
That's a kike so it's fake.

Because Nasu doesn't know what he is talking about. I am not sure how this is news for you.

>>158178654
>Gilgamesh did actually exist
there's actually very little evidence to back that up.

>>158185345
the consensus among historians is that he existed- good enough for me

>>158185345
I bet you also think Jesus Christ didn't exist.

>>158177777
Butcher is a hack

>>158177777
Pro-tip: Fate is not historically accurate and the less you take it seriously the more you're going to enjoy it.

>>158185345
There is no proof of your existence either.

>>158185005
>believing the eternal kike memes
Two thousand years are enough to make them goblins. They used to be a real threat in warfare, to Romans of all people. They've tried the same shit over and over after they killed Christ. They are mad.

But keep believing the JIDF memes of ubermensch jews who lie and the world obeys.

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>>158186101

>>158185687
That's bullshit because in the original they actually provided convincing explanations that fit with the setting and let you remain immersed in the story. Saber being a girl was heavily tied to her backstory and Shirou's character, Gilgamesh having all the original Noble Phantasm was congruent with Servant lore up to that point, etc...

It's from Extra onwards, especially Grand Order, that they started shoving in nonsensical designs/genderbends, for no reason but "cool factor" or "waifu value", presented with the flimsiest explanations. Ridiculous levels of milking is the reason Fate can't be enjoyed seriously anymore.

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>>158178654
Viva la France!

>>158186308
>in the original they actually provided convincing explanations that fit with the setting and let you remain immersed
>Medea is one of the most powerful mages of all time
>Hassan-i-sabbah is a spider man with a 20-foot long arm
>Angra Mainyu is some teenager who got beat up a lot

>>158187979
The only comparison between Medea and other mages in FSN is to the modern ones like Rin, which serves to drive home how much magic has weakened since the age of gods. That's an essential part of TM lore. Of course it's not "historically accurate" because magic isn't fucking real, but it perfectly fits within the setting without stretching any boundaries.

Hassan is a Servant, of course he has some sort of supernatural feature? The real order of assassins was mysterious by nature, why do you find it out of place that they had freakish body modifications within the Fate world?

"Angra Mainyuu" isn't even the real Zoroastrian devil, just a really angry cursed spirit. The whole deal with the Grail taking the "closest thing" to what you want is set up earlier by Fake Assassin. How does an evil spirit break your immersion?

>>158178363

He built the walls to fend off the titans?

>>158187979
Compared to the most powerful magi from the Age of Gods, Medea was only somewhat above average.

>>158177777
>turns out the army was ready to mutiny when he got to India and wanted to keep going
Yes, this never happened in Fate. Like how Solomon never disobeyed God and was God sockpuppet, Gilgamesh was somehow relevant and not a who that built some walls, Nero was a good emperor and King Arthur was a girl (sometimes).

>>158188510
Yes, and he controlled armies of djinns, and his horse was the strongest horse ever and whoever tamed him would rule the world. Alexander has shitload more myths than Gil and not even 1% of it is used in Fate. Alexander Romancia is fucking huge. You have to remember Alexander is the guy every single ancient ruler, including all Roman Emperors, aspired to be.

Gil and Iskandar roles should have been switched because Gilgamesh is a literal who and a burly guy, while Alexander was a prissy pretty boy.

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>>158185005
All magi are his descendants, so Aoko and Rin are kikes too. You can just assume Solomon came from a special 100000% high-quality fuccboi line since Moses times.

>>158188769
She was able to cast a curse that crippled demi gods like Heracles so I don't really know what more you want.

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>>158179190
His hair is short in that fanart. It goes past his ankles.

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>>158189846
;_;

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>>158190049
Wait for the gacha in part 2 goyim.

>>158178573
Solomon literally agrees with Arthur's ideals. Antisaberfags got BTFO.

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>>158190121
>implying it has anything to do with jewishness and isn't because of the incantation
you know my theory's right
you just don't want to accept it
you *can't* accept it yet, jack
not yet

What's David's opinion on his son's body getting possessed by demons?

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>>158190201
>I have no idea what I'm talking about but Arturia's my waifu lol

>>158190289
He doesn't know what's going on with his actual son, and it's not like he knows who is possessing the body, so he doesn't really have anything to say on it. As far as he knows, he died, his son had a neat life; now, he's been brought back from the dead and some weirdo's pretending to be his son. Not much to input.

>>158178654
>tesla couldnt shoot lightning
He doesn't know

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>>158190439
>I have no idea what I'm talking about but Arturia's my waifu lol
Roman asks about her ideals and reasons to become king in her interlude and is silently agreeable with them, showing sympathy about the outcome and respecting her ways. He also served as Lancer Artoria's consultant and shrink in her interlude (she gets along with him and avoids your self-insert, so she visits him frequently until he nudges Guda to talk to him). He immediately gets along and trusts Arthur when he shows up too, something he doesn't do with any character, and Arthur has the same ideals as Arturia.

Solomon as a king system was said to be benevolent ruler of peace, then as Roman he chose to destroy his chance of human happiness and freedom and dedicate his entire short life to try to save humanity. As leader of Chaldea, he puts everybody's needs over his. How can you be blind and claim that he doesn't share the "serving the people" kingship way. Even Da Vinci says he lived a hellish life for the sake of others.

>>158190723
>is silently agreeable with them
laughed so fucking hard

>>158190439
How strong is David?

>>158190289
>>158190439
David implied he knew the enemy they were fighting wasn't Solomon since Okeanus, and teased Roman immediately. He called the enemy "someone pretending to be my son."

>>158190768
>never played the interludes
He found her determination admirable.

>>158190781
That's essentially what I said

>>158178654
>edison wasnt a lion man

Should have made him a damn eagle.

>>158190858
My bad, you're right. He affirmed his son was a "fool but a honest just man" who "wouldn't do something like this" in Okeanus.

>>158190871
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVEflECtfBM
It's a reference to this.

>>158190769
David is really strong in lore like every Abrahamic fuccboi, but he's nerfed in his younger shepherd days in FGO. His ark is an autokill NP to whoever touches it, no matter what you are, except for him who carries it. He can't used it as weapon in FGO but he can in his Apoc draft mats.

>>158191060
Yeah, touching the ark autokills Herk with all his lives.

>>158190987
>Fourth Noble Phantasm: Ars Gratia Artis

Gudao pleases old women for money and loves Finnish Mage men.

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>>158191273
>is still alive
Somehow I doubt that

>>158191273
Fuck off you general cuck.

>>158178225

do you want to make entertainment or you want to do a history class? Go to the college if you want a history class, don't expect authors stop doing fiction only to satisfy your absurd necessity of realism.

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Has anyone thought about/examined the weird way that Goetia uses Ars Almadel Salomonis in his final fight as "Human King"? He uses an incantation which is specific to himself instead of the legitimate incantation for AAS. He says: 「第三宝具、展開。私はここに生まれ、ここで死ぬ。燃え尽きよう、すべての悔恨。」 While I get the significance of what he's saying, there is one thing that does not make sense to me. How is he capable of using the NP if he isn't using the right incantation? He says the [mostly] correct incantation earlier in order to use the NP, so he seems to need to use it somehow, but he doesn't here.
If someone might explain it briefly, I would appreciate it; as, I don't know the entire text of the game, of course.

>>158189495
Wasn't it that she undid the madness curse that was put on herc by athena?

>>158188769
>can do immortality
>student of goddess of magic
>described as a force of nature
>undoes curses cast by gods
>above average

>>158191928
>caring about modern Nasuverse lore
We waifus and pandering now boy.

>>158192311
And people would say that /vg/ is the problem, when this is your mindset?

>>158192421
No, I just don't care about GO shit and I'd rather ignore more Servant power creep lore.

>>158192470
There is no 'power creep' in Grand Order. If you're going to whine about that horseshit, don't lie. Whine about CCC, which actually is powercreep shit. Direct the anger and hatred at the right fucking target.

Addendum: If you think that Solomon is the 'power creep', you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

>>158192682
Grand Servants and Beasts (outside of Prototype) weren't even a thing before GO. Alter Egos and shit were within the very special conditions of the Moon Cell.

Grand Order is as stupidly power creep as you can get.

>>158191928
Yes, you can. They have a different effect, though. Mashu for example used Lord Camelot as Lord Chaldeas, it's called a virtual Noble Phantasm, that's how You and Mashu figure out he's not the real Solomon, because he was going to do a version of Ars Nova he made up.

>>158192913
>Grand Servants and Beasts (outside of Prototype) weren't even a thing before GO
The Beasts got mentioned in CCC. BB was stealing her shit from Beast VI.

>>158194687
Beast VI is precisely the one from Prototype.

>>158191928
Think of Goetia as Solomon demi Servant like Mashu, he gets to use some of his stuff and when he can't (as Solomon took that shit away) he can make up a way to use it like Mashu did before she figured out she joined Galahad.

>>158194763
Amaterasu is also said to be a Humanity's Evil which is again hinted in FGO Tamamo interlude.

>>158194808
The connection between the term "Humanity's Evil" and Beasts wasn't explicit until FGOshit. No one pointed it out at the time when it was used in the UBW anime.

>>158194560
You're right; I forgot about all of that. It's simply rare for that to happen, so it's not particularly memorable.

Still, I question the fact that he also recites AAS incorrectly even when he uses the correct version of it. Everyone does, actually. Goetia says 来たれ, Roman says 来たり, and the text says 来たれり. I really do hope that it's intentional and means something as opposed to being, as some people will say and have said, Nasu's shit memory; as the audio was recorded like 2 years prior to the game.

>>158194856
Nasu has a shit memory, but I'm sure he just meant to be different in the end because Goetia couldn't use Solomon's incantation and made up something that was going to represent him as human. Otherwise, if he had used his real Ars Salami, we've been fucked. Like how his Ars Nova time travel shit was different from Solomon's suicide bomb attack.

>>158194945
>Otherwise, if he had used his real Ars Salami, we've been fucked
Alright, fair enough. I think that I can accept that as the right answer. Thank you for the consideration.

>>158195013
The whole last battle was won in general because Goetia didn't move his ass to fight and wasted his time trying to get philosophical with you and Mashu. Baal and the game made clear that if he had actually fought in the beginning, everyone would have been fucked. Keep in mind it normally takes him glaring at Servants for them to get one shot by him unless they have Lord Camelot-level of protection or have a crown saint graph like Solomon's.

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>>158195173
Well, that's the weight of realizing that your ideals of 3,000 years and your efforts towards what you believed would be your "great achievement" were misguided. He just sounds so depressed and broken in his voice lines as Human King, too. Hear for yourself, here:
https://youtu.be/ueMYPDei_N4?t=5m26s

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>>158196884
I mean in the beginning, Baal asked him to step out and one shot the Servants army and he told him to fuck off. If he had actually stepped to fight before Roman did his suicide act, it was game over for everything. He had the typical overconfident villain syndrome.

This was before he changed his mind and heart over it. He was obviously harboring some doubts, or else he wouldn't have sought validation from Mashu that hard.

>>158196884
He was actually happy in the end, he was joyous he had a chance to experience humanity as brief it was. He wanted you to witness him burning away. He even called (you) his 'fate'.

>>158196884
Wow, they seriously wasted Sugita on this faggot, huh? Fuck modern Fate.

>>158191060
It drains all mana from the one who touched it no matter who it is.

Are there any Portuguese servants yet

>>158197057
Well, Goetia isn't 'technically' one person. As I recall, according to Goetia himself, there was one single dissenter among the 72 demons. He says something about that part of himself being akin to Mashu and that he needs her to believe in his plan in order to make that one guy stop disagreeing. I do wonder which demon it was, though. Was it Flauros, perhaps; being really aggressive about his beliefs to cover up his lack of faith?

>>158197167
Yeah, but I imagine that Nasu hadn't written *that* much two years prior to the event. If he had, I imagine that the recordings would sound rather different. Like Iskandar's charge in the Zero sound drama, maybe even.

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>>158197371
The one Church executor in the new drama CD is called Angelo Braga. He's probably Portuguese.

>>158188331
Why do you accept certain parts of a stupid paranormal romance series and not others?

>>158197388
The demons form Goetia, but Goetia is also an entity. You know like the Lahmus at the end of Babylon are Tiamat too, while the demons had a different personality, the one who was doing this questioning was Goetia himself who had his distinctive personality. He was the sentient foundation of magecraft.

>>158197780
Because all of those he menioned not only make sense within the setting (which the new ones do, but through convouted excuses or "kaleidoscope lol"), but are also important parts of the narrative, and used to build up interesting characters that have a clear purpose in the story, instead of FGO's next badly design Servant of the month.

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On the theme of Executors from the Church - Hansa Cervantes is the most hilarious and spooky Executor yet. I really do hope he plays a significant role in SF.

>>158192913
Primate Murder was in Tsuki mats you stupid bastard. You said yourself, the Beast of Revelations was in Prototype, which means the idea predates everything else but proto-Rakkyo and proto-Tsuki.

Just say "I don't like thing" and stop being fucking wrong.

>captcha STOP 2700

>>158197936
>"kaleidoscope lol"
This isn't even relevant anymore, it's different world-tree and lines, branches.

>>158197970
Primate Murder was not a Beast pre-GO trash either. He was just the 1st of the DAA, Altrouge's pet who specializes in killing people.

>>158198249
It's literally the same concept except some get prunned when humanity is screwed over, what the fuck do you mean it's not relevant. The 2nd Magic is still very much a thing.

>>158197936
Medusa and Medea have no character outside of being midbosses/waifus in F/SN, Hassan might as well not exist, Saber is a girl because Takeuchi has a hard on for slight blonde girls, Angra Mainyu the scapegoat wearing Shirou's face has sweet fuck all to do with Zoroastrianism and only exists so Shirou can have rape scenes in HA, Redman doesn't even exist outside of the game, and Herk has no character or purpose other than to job and carry Ilya around.

It's always been pandering shit; GO just doesn't pander to you so you think it's shit now. Read a decent fucking VN (or better yet, an actual book) and get over yourself.

>>158197970
Prototype predates everything else. It was literally an unfinished story Nasu made in his high school that Takeuchi's brother read and loved. It was his first work before he published the other ones. Takeuchi's brother is the only nonsecondary of existence.

>>158198266
>called Beast of Gaia
>not a Beast
?
Anyway Beast is just a level up label. Tiamat as a goddess, is someone we easily fucked up and sealed away. Tiamat as a Humanity Evil is another shit entirely.

>>158198310
>The 2nd Magic is still very much a thing.
Remind me what it does again? Because everyone and their mother is observing different timelines and world jumping now.

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>>158197959
I was really happy to have a classic vampire vs executor fight in SF. Also normal humans going up against a Servant, and then getting fucked up because rock-paper-scissors. At least Narita still cares.

>>158198266
He was an Evil of Humanity that would need a team of seven CGs to drop. The idea then got expounded upon (more like picked back up, given Prototype's existence as ur-text) as the Beasts we have in GO.

>>158198389
"Beast of Gaia" is just a name, he was completely unrelated to the 666 Beast as far as we knew.

Just because Nasu decided to give bullshit world hopping powers to the Moon Cell's Regalia and whoever else doesn't mean it stops being Magic. Just another example of power creep fucking things up in nu-Nasuverse.

>>158198500
Yeah, remember when Grand Servants basically took the Guardians' role except "more important", because they're popular and sell better?

>>158198606
You have no clue what you're talking about.

>>158198266
You dumb fuck, you're not automatically born a Beast, it's not a species, but a classification: you become one. Once you do, all your multiverse versions are in danger to follow that same path because they are officially Beasts candidates (which means with a proper nudge they can taken over their alt selves as happened with Kiara, who wasn't even a Beast yet).
Primate Murder is likely not Beast level yet in Tsukihime and is just Altrouge pet. Because once something reaches Beast Level (their saint graph/spiritual foundation becomes Beast), you're nobody's pet but a threat to everything in the planet, first, the galaxy later and the weave of existence at least.

These are fuckers you need to nip from the bud because they can potentially endanger everything. It doesn't matter if the base is a goddess, a gaia's defense mechanism, sentient foundation of magic, a root-controlling loli and a slut with a cult following.

>>158198311
>characters have no purpose except for the things they did do, and no character except the caratherization they did get

OK.
FSN is still top tier among chuunishit. I've probably read more VNs and books than you.

>>158198560
>as far as we knew.
Nasu had different plans, obviously.

>Just because Nasu decided to give bullshit world hopping powers to the Moon Cell's Regalia and whoever else doesn't mean it stops being Magic.

Manaka and Arthur can do that too. Magic stops being magic when is replicated.

>>158177777
Holy shit

>>158198649
That's pretty much exactly what happened. What Chaldea does in FGO used to be the Guardians' intended role, cleaning shit up when humanity gets fucked up. But nope, gotta sell this shit somehow.

>>158198606
No? Grand Servants are part of the Counter Force, but isn't clear 'which' Counter Force. Guardians are Alaya's counter force which is based on despair. Human Order has Heroic Spirits which is basis is humanity's hope. They are all counter force troops but answer and work differently (Heroic Spirits keep their sanity). There was something of this already drafted in mats, which said HS were the hopes and prayers of mankind, unlike Guardians that embody the despair. Which Nasu clarified with Merlin in Garden of Avalon. This was a concept he had since prototype.

>>158198799
You're just reaffirming what I've said about you.

>>158198799
Chaldea is cleaning shit that the Counter Force cannot do, because they don't operate in singularities.

>>158198671
OK. What argument are you trying to make? All that lore is post-FGO.

>>158198737
Nasu's plans meant nothing if he didn't act on them. Only after FGO did he become a Beast in that sense.

Magic is doing something that could not be achieved through ordinary means, a literal miracle. There only being one user of each sorcery was never a specified requirement for it to be considered "Magic". If it became commonplace and any decent mage could reproduce it, you'd have an argument, but there's literally no basis for you to claim that Kaleidoscope is no longer the 2nd Magic.

>>158198866
Exactly. They're doing more important shit thanks to a lore excuse so they can use Servants in the mobile game.

>>158198821
How does that at all go against what I said? They're doing the same job Guardians were intended for, through some other CF.

>>158199010
Anon, Heroic Spirits were always the Counter Force. Doesn't matter if they answer to (you), Alaya or the Human Order.

>>158199092
Counter Guardians like EMIYA are janitors who only take down human threats. You all made up some nonsense and overblew its importance.

>>158199010
>a lore excuse
Then King Arthur can't be a woman, if that's how we're judging the value of a text.

>>158199256
That's completely unrelated. You're comparing Saber's character to a shitty excuse to make a Servant wanking mobile game.

>>158199322
>That's completely unrelated
No, it's not.

>>158199222
It's confirmed at the very least that Guardians would go fight against Primate Murder if he appeared, that's not exactly a "human threat", nor is it "unimportant".

>>158199387
Right, because of good old "forced eroge, King Arthur fucks a ginger teen", right? Also, Fate was always awful and no one should've ever taken it seriously, right?
Fuck GOfags.

>>158199394
Yeah, you might want to watch the context Nasu used that answer: he said in respect of the Servant system Fuyuki took as model. So he was talking about the Grand Servants, not about EMIYA-tier counter force members.
Not that shit didn't change, it was just in draft stage before he fully developed his system and was an irrelevant FAQ mat answer that he constantly retcons. Now we know a Crown Servant spiritual foundation is roughly the equivalent of a Beast one, and paper rock scissors bullshit is very relevant still. Sometimes the alignment is very blurry. Merlin seems to be a candidate for Grand Caster or Beast, for example.

>>158199518
Right, because of good old "Servant wanking waifu mobile game", right?
Fuck stupid non-humans who use meaningless terms in attempt to classify extremely nebulous groups of people.

>>158199585
Oh, didn't know that was already referring to the 7 Grands. Cool.

>>158199624
Except that's exactly what the entirety of GO is, wanking Servants in various way. The ero part of FSN is extremely minor, and may have actually contributed to improve Saber/Shirou as characters compared to what Arthur/Ayaka might've been.

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>>158199789
Yeah, Nasu had something in mind since forever, but he didn't line it up until FGO. He always said that Fuyuki system was BASED on a counter force one, so the Grand Servants (not with that name) were always a thing which existed since Prototype draft defined Heroic Spirits as protector of mankind so the Grail for selfish reasons disturbs their natural role.
Of course, now he put the crown Servants and Beasts on same level (monstrous saint graphs/spiritual foundations), just sometimes conceptual advantage might apply. Fou, who represents competitiveness, was defeated soundly not by confrontation: but to befriend him, make him part of your family and team and see him as a companion more. It was thematic, all Beasts defeats are thematic, whether they involve Crown Servants or don't. That's why I'm confused why people give a shit about "powercreep", every battle is won because of the conceptual counter. It's not as if Roman incarnated into full Solomon and kicked Goetia's ass with super god lasers (which is how Goetia envisioned his defeat in Solomon's living hands) but rejecting onimpotence and Providence Goetia embodied, and embracing being a regular man with a will of his own, facing the death he wanted to erased fearlessly. The same goes with Kiara and Tiamat. Nasu hasn't lost his touch for pottery defeats over muh powerlevels.

>>158199854
Fate has always been about Servants, get this through your skull. NASU wanted to write about heroes being cool since highschool and he was forced to cater to self insert fags with Shirou when his ideal protagonist was King Arthur. He hated to genderbent him and got angry with Takeuchi who suggested it first. He did it for money.

>>158200472
It's still beyond retarded that Grand Servants of each class are a thing, and that the Fuyuki ritual (organized with the help of Zelretch) was just copying them, considering that Rider, Caster, Assassin, and Berserker were created as intentionally weaker than the knight classes, so the 3 families would come out on top. How the fuck does that apply if it always actually meant to summon the strongest heroes? Why not summon them in a special class without restrictions, when vessels aren't an issue?

>>158200522
>Shirou a self-insert
>the routes often focus a lot more on humans than "heroes being cool"
>of the two Servants that get decent screentime, Archer is his own unique character and Saber is the only actual myth

You don't know what you're talking about. He did write about "heroes being cool", but only as a backdrop to the main themes of his story, which fittingly happened to be about heroism and ideals. His most explored characters were not those heroes, and they were certainly not the spotlight of F/SN.
FGO and Extella are the actual cashgrabs.

>>158200986
>Shirou
>not a self insert when he made his character completely inconsistent so users wouldn't feel threatened and self insert more
Sure, buddy.
>He did write about "heroes being cool", but only as a backdrop to the main themes of his story,
FSN is nothing but a cashgrab he wrote to cater to the neckbeards who had read Tsukihime and was pandering to them. That's the value of the story. It was written for commercial purposes only. In his heart, Nasu said and repeated Fate is a story of "King Arthur looking for the Holy Grail" which was the concept of fate had had in his youth, the story he wanted to write about: heroes that fight against each other and team up to defeat a great beast that threaten the world. Not the shit Takeuchi made him do so people an easy fap to twintail tsundere and young blonde girls in armors.
But you've with zero self-awareness, pointing fingers to FGO without knowing your precious FSN is just another soulless cashgrab that Nasu wrote against his artistic merit. Nasu even got into a fit saying that genderbending King Arthur is as bad as genderbending Guts as Berserk, for the record, and it's a shitty idea. To this day, Nasu even repeats that King Arthur is always a GUY in his POV. So your precious Shirou-Saber story is just a betrayal of his true vision.

>>158201300
*Guts of Berserk.

You get the idea. Nasu never really liked FSN as much as you think, because he betrayed his childhood dream of Fate for easy bucks.

>>158201300
Shirou and Saber's romance is trash, I never said otherwise. The Fate route is easily the worst.
I don't care if you interpret Nasu's quotes as him considering FSN "soulless", it didn't feel like that to me and clearly a lot of other people who fell in love with its characters and setting agree.
FGO goes against that "artistic merit" a thousand times more, so much so that Nasu only bothered to write its introduction and climax parts. The main difference being they're not subtle in the slightest with their pandering now, nor are those parts tied to what could be considered a good story (in fact, I've seen many agree that the Solomon and the final chapters would be far better in another medium), which means I can't form the slightest connection to FGO, nor can I get invested in it as I once did FSN. Simply put, it lost all the charm Fate once had for me, and a fuckton of lore shoved into it isn't enough to make up for it.

>>158177777
It's Nasu. He also thinks Caliburn and Excalibur are two different swords.

I want to make current humanity immortal and create one eternal world line.

How fucked am I for trying to save humanity from itself? The curse of mortality is one no one should ever bear.

>>158201562
I've said nothing defending FGO, only pointing out FSN is just another shitty easy bucks soulless cashcrab that was born from Nasu being greedy rather than being artistic unlike what chucklefucks brainwashed themselves to believe. The problem isn't Saber/Shirou romance, it's Shirou in general, Nasu point blank said that Fate should be Arthur's story, not Shirou's, demoting him to waifu is like if you genderbent Guts and add some ginger boy who fucks Guts in Berserk as new protagonist. This is how insulting FSN is to Nasu.
If he had stuck to his guns, we would have seen King Arthur's story in book format. Instead, he made Arthur a woman, added waifus that didn't exist or inflated their importance (as Misaya), made a generic bland self insert character and slapped some inconsistent characterization on him so people thought was 'deep' and made it a eroge VN because it was commercial, betraying his childhood dream story.

> it didn't feel like that to me and clearly a lot of other people who fell in love with its characters and setting agree.
I'm fairly sure that more people feel that way about FGO, what's your point? Your subjective tastes change absolutely nothing. My point is that he never wrote FSN because he wanted to, he wrote FSN because he wanted money. There's zero difference between what he did then with FSN as he did now with FGO.

>>158202279
>There's zero difference between what he did then with FSN as he did now with FGO.

>FGO goes against that "artistic merit" a thousand times more, so much so that Nasu only bothered to write its introduction and climax parts. The main difference being they're not subtle in the slightest with their pandering now, nor are those parts tied to what could be considered a good story (in fact, I've seen many agree that the Solomon and the final chapters would be far better in another medium), which means I can't form the slightest connection to FGO, nor can I get invested in it as I once did FSN. Simply put, it lost all the charm Fate once had for me, and a fuckton of lore shoved into it isn't enough to make up for it.

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>>158202273
Go away Goetia

>>158198671
If Gudao manages to stop all the Beasts in GO wouldn't they technically make them counted as a Beast them self since they were the only one to unite an entire group to stop the Beasts and carried it out?

I mean something that can stop the things planning to threaten all of existence is in the fact of itself a threat to all of existence.

>>158200986
I was away, sorry anon.
>How the fuck does that apply if it always actually meant to summon the strongest heroes?
I have no idea what you mean with this. Can you elaborate? The original system is about the crown Spirits of each class. But this isn't necessarily what Fuyuki system is capable of doing. First, you need a catalyst and apparently, Crown Heroic Spirits cannot be summoned unless they agree to not claim the Grand title. Involves a choice the Fuyuki system does not have. Marisbilly summoned Solomon through his Fate system which has the Heroic Spirit agree to be summoned beforehand. This was performed in secret (so think of him as the secret boss who shows up and wins). Merlin, King Hassan, and (my speculation he's a Crown Servant) Arthur are also willing examples. Arthur even travels across time and space by his own will, not even with Alaya's deal as Artoria does. He was thinking to cut a deal in Fragments, for example, so it means he was there by his own power.
The three families just wanted magical energy to open a path to the Root, they were unconcerned about the quality of the Heroic Spirit until later. They made those classes as a recipient for the spirits (and as you said, nerfed the nonknight classes).

>>158177777
Those digits though

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>>158202273
I want to fuck your king while you watch angrily at the distance as he moans my name.

>>158202715
I mean, why are "Grand" classes even a thing? Why does the planet, or whatever entity is responsible for summoning them when they're needed, put them into classes? And in that case, why are Rider, Caster, Assassin, and Berserker a thing, when the the 3 families in Fuyuki supposedly made them weaker than the knight classes to rig the game? Why is the system like that, after the retcon that they weren't the ones who made the system?

>>158202834
What did he mean by this

>>158202915
>I mean, why are "Grand" classes even a thing? Why does the planet, or whatever entity is responsible for summoning them when they're needed, put them into classes?
Why haven't you read the material? Why are you asking questions that are answered in the material?

>>158178225
Alexander's army loved him and would do almost anything for him. Just because they didn't do everything he wanted doesn't mean they weren't devoted to him. Nasu knows more about Alexander than you.

>>158202985
Not him, but this "grand servant" shit didn't exist in the original fate stay night.
Classes were just containers that were designed by the three families to summon the servants.
Fate Grand Order stinks of fanfic desu.

>>158202985
Pretty sure the GO localization isn't out yet? Well whatever, sorry for asking then.
Sure hope that doesn't mean you can't answer it, didn't think I could be more disappointed in GO.

>>158202915
Caster, Rider, etc are just meme names we know them as for RPG reasons. Solomon and Merlin are known as "crown mages", Hassan as crown assassin meaning the best magic users, the best assassin, etc. It's not the same as Fuyuki system classes, Fuyuki system copied that designation: there are simply acknowledged as the absolute best spearmen, swordsmen, bowmen, mages, assassins, brutes from history by some qualification.
I don't want to enter to some religious discussion, but Hassan's 'bells' are linked to God. The eyes Solomon and Merlin possesses which is the qualification for their role as the top are also said to be God's blessing.

>>158203071
If you have no critical direction to your questions, then it's fine. But, if you're asking with intent to provoke whilst not knowing that there are answers to the questions in the material, that's not fine.

>>158203110
OK, so there's no real explanation for why the planet chose those qualification and made 3 of them generally stronger than the other 4, even though it made sense in F/SN?
Great, GO new lore keeps disappointing.

>>158203192
Huh? Knight classes aren't stronger in FGO.

>>158203148
>there are answers to the questions in the material

I was just genuinely curious after the Primate Murder thing, but according to >>158203110
, there actually aren't "answers in the material".

>>158203192
This is what I'm talking about. When someone doesn't know the material, asks for a brief answer, then attacks the material of the response because it doesn't address minutiae which would not normally be covered in a short response.

>>158203231
That was their original intent for the 3 families though. Pretty sure it's even referenced in several spin-offs.
It's not like they made the class container of those 3 stronger for the Fuyuki, their stats are the same in GO as all the other wars.

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>>158202682
I doubt it would take tens of thousands of Servants to hold us back. Though it would be an interesting twist.

>>158203279
OK then, please do adress those minutiae then. In a long response, if necessary.

Grail system is based off of legends and myths, not historical facts. They repeatedly state this multiple times.

It doesn't matter if he was a drunkard and fell into depression as his generals/soldiers mutinied and poisoned him. What matters is the image of god-hero among the western world where Alexander the Great is THE Great who was never defeated and has undying loyalty of his subject.

You wouldn't get responses if you asked someone for answers to lore questions regarding material in the FSN VN. Replies would be "lol read the VN", and nobody would question it. If you were to get responses that answered you, would you attack the work as a whole because the responses were either unsatisfactory or slightly inconsistent with what you know of the work? Would you not respect "lol read the game" responses? No? Yes?

This, then, shows unabashed and aimless bias against Grand Order not due to its qualities as a work but because it contradicts or changes at least one thing held dear by the speaker. Nothing more and nothing less. All questions which can be met with "read the game" must be met with that response. If not, fuckwits like certain people in this thread will continue to be allowed to speak on something of which they know nothing.

>>158203310
Which has nothing to do with the performance of the class now. This is linked to their spiritual foundation (which Nasu calls as "saint graph"). The stats are kind of meaningless because we summon them through Fate system instead of Fuyuki one (which made the cavalry weaker as a cheat for the three families). FGO bases on a system one class are weak to another through a class triangle, with Beasts completely out the triangle and Grand Servants are probably are the same (King Hassan who was in his class recipient in camelot was stronger than a divine spirit, for example, and easily fucked up Gawain). Special classes have their own triangle so on.

The Crown Servants as Grands and Beasts have special specs, it seems. Each numbered Beasts has a unique strong point and weakness when they are allowed to take damage (once you debuff her through plot device).

>>158203310
What made the Calvary weaker was that the generic "vessel" for it had shittier standard stats, this doesn't apply at all anymore.

>>158203536
Alright, so FGO directly states at some point that non-knights in Fuyuki have a weaker saint graph? You're not just basing that on the gameplay class triangle, right?

Well, I guess that's good enough, thanks.

>>158203590
Then why did all the Fuyuki Servants summoned in FGO have the exact same stats as in their stories? That would seem to imply the vessels didn't affect the stats at all or made them weaker.

>>158203653
Fuyuki system is just glossed over a bit, in order to introduce Fate one as different. We know what the three families did thanks to old mats.

Gameplay class triangle is official in the game. When facing some archer mobs, someone says "summon lancers!" and all this, sure some Servants can fuck your triangle because of specific advantages they have but it's acknowledged when is the standard. Nasu introduced this in Fate Zero Consultation Room special actually, so he finally applied it officially in FGO (Saber strong vs Lancer, so on).

Saint graph being strong or weak or different is addressed all the time by Romani and Nasu wrote all his dialogue, from the beginning to the end.

>>158203699
>Then why did all the Fuyuki Servants summoned in FGO have the exact same stats as in their stories?
Nasu said that 4th and 5th Servants were unusual and stronger out of the norm, in some cases, or weaker in others (like a regular Hassan and fake Assassin- the way ME works in Fuyuki and how hassans HAVE to be Assassin are also ways for you to know they fucked the Calvary). The 'cavalry classes are nerfed' only applied when you summon a generic saber and generic rider, the saber will be stronger because the vessel that is given to them is better but when you summon King Arthur and Alexander the Great, what is about is less about their generic vessel and more about the place they were summoned and the Master quality.

>>158203349
The only way to correct it would be for Goetia to kill them self.

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If Qin Shi Huang was summoned as a Servant where would he fall on the Gilgamesh-Iskandar-Artoria king spectrum? His empire was supposed to be governed by the philosophy of Legalism, that is that the Law is above all individuals, a meritocratic system of reward and punishment to force people to work for the benefit of the State, and the emperor as the supreme arbiter of the Law.

>>158178654
>Tesla couldn't shoot lighting

you don't know about the death ray do you?

>>158204173
I'm confident they won't touch him after the chinks went apeshit and made Higashide apologize in twitter for Jing Ke story.

>>158204173
>His empire was supposed to be governed by the philosophy of Legalism, that is that the Law is above all individuals, a meritocratic system of reward and punishment to force people to work for the benefit of the State, and the emperor as the supreme arbiter of the Law.
That sounds almost 100% identical to Gilgamesh's method.

>>158204269
What happened with Jing Ke? She didn't try to kill the Emperor?

>>158204349
Meritiocratic system did not come to the west until the later 17th-18th century.

In the time of Gilgamesh, it was all about family connections.

>>158204402
The Emperor was an ugly frog freak with a giant tumor on his back.

This has nothing to do with anything but since we're talking about classes I want to bring this up. Order of the classes has always been Saber->Lancer->Archer->Rider->Caster->Assassin->Berserker whenever it's brought up. Why is Berserker last? Assassin the one most most different from the rest, only one that doesn't end with -er, and in F/SN True Assassin was the last servant to appear by a wide margin.

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>>158204590
Berserker always seemed the most different to me in that it doesn't imply an actual combat role/method, but instead a mental state. A sort of "whoever fits" class. And there's that thing in F/Z about how you can apparently force the summon to be Berserker by adding an extra line to the summoning.

>>158204471
The hell are you talking about history for? Read what he said and then compare it to what is written about Fate's Uruk and Gilgamesh.

>>158204669
Feels like there's always been a pretty loose 'whoever fits' deal with most classes. In the main series alone we have EMIYA " i love swords so much" shirou, King "why shoot arrows when you can shoot swords" Gilgamesh, and Gilles "I'm only Caster cause I got my friend's spellbook after death" De Rais. Heroes can only be a Berserker if they were famous for going mad in their legend, which Heracles and Lancelot were. As for Lancelot, I thought Zouken and Kariya decided he was gonna be Berserker beforehand and they were just spelling it out for the dumb audience. If he really was summoned as a different class then class changed that raises some questions.

>>158204669
The Berserker class is like a buff to stats at the cost of their sanity. They can be given to literally any servant but results may vary from the orginal BerserCar (so that he could actually be controlled instead of his Archer incrantion) to Nightingale, a Berserker healer

>>158204562
I thought he was literally Gilgamesh

>>158204349
One of the fundamental tenets of Chinese Legalism is that all humans are inherently selfish, act in their own interests against the interests of the collective, and it is useless to try to teach them good morals, so a system of laws that reward good behavior and severely punish bad behavior is needed to run the state. This included collective punishments where a whole group could be executed if one of their number was late to roll call. I don't know how much Gilgamesh would go for that, he seems to be happy for humans to struggle against each other to come out on top.

>>158204260
What, the Archimedes death ray?

>>158190201
>Solomon asks Arthur for help instead of Arturia
Saberfags BTFO

>>158204562
>The Emperor was an ugly frog freak with a giant tumor on his back.

He committed atrocities. Why are they even defending him?

>>158177777
That's because the Servants (forget FGO for a sec) were summoned at the peak of their prime.

>>158177777
Butcher wrote Iskander backwards: his ideology is supposed to be a valid method of kingship that brings prosperity because Alexander built a great empire, except the historical Alexander and Iskander are not the same. So the logic of how Butcher's Iskander's ideology would lead to prosperity is skipped over because "Well, history says it was prosperous, so clearly this fictional character with traits I made up would have the same result."

It's the same for every other aspect of the character, it doesn't stand up to scrutiny because he started by assuming he was successful, wrote the philosophy, and never connected the dots in a logical manner. Funnily enough, the difference between Artoria and Gil ends up being chiefly about what responsibilities each one think come with the title of "King." When Gil actually tries to make his land prosper, he ends up self-sacrificing and slaving away at work like she did, because ultimately it's the logical thing to do when you have to show how a kingdom prosper on-screen.

When Iskander gets put in a situation where his "I'll do whatever the fuck I want and this will somehow lead to good things" philosophy gets actually put to the test on screen without some ridiculous author fiat to magic it all into working out, he just turns into a pest that helps almost birth Angra Mainyu and you have to kill him.

>>158178225
Nigger do you not get that the Servant isn't Alexander the man, but Alexander the legend?

They're not real people, just shaped mana wrapped around a Servant mold that can do increasingly wacky shit based on whatever exaggerated tall tales were written about them. Alexander had his dick sucked for thousands of years as the perfect, beloved warrior king. That's the version summoned by the Throne.

Can servants breed? If Heracles impregnated a woman in a Holy Grail War would her child be 1/4 god?

Can Kanye West be a servant?

>>158210749
Not entirely true. The real person is in there somewhere. Hard to tell what percentage is the real person and how much is the legend, but it's not necessarily all the legend.

Gilgamesh has practically no fame compared to most other heroes, for example. All of his power comes from the real power he actually had when he was alive.

>>158210822
Servants are familiars. Familiars can probably breed if their bodies are human enough. Harder for female Servants because they'd need to stay summoned for the full pregnancy term.

>>158210657
Never mind that most of the prospering happened after he died and his generals divided the empire up into pieces.

>>158210193
He doesn't, though. He tells him he can't help, and he sets up your meeting, so (you) can help him in his grand order in the future.

>>158210430
Because only they can talk shit about their Emperor.

>>158211169
>>158210822

They can't, Apocrypha covers it. Only ones who can are those possessing human bodies (or those incarnated as human as Solomon was, I suppose). They are just magical energy taking a shape. Yes, same goes to Artoria. Her real body is back in Britain, her soul is the one that travels.

Arthur might be an exception, though. Looks he travelled in body and soul.

>>158211948
Why can Homunculi breed, then?

What context does Apocrypha cover it in? I can't imagine there wouldn't be some way for them to do it, even if the child ended up being a homunculus or something.

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>>158204590
The answer is assonance. Also, janken.
>Saber beats Lancer
>Lancer beats Archer
>Archer beats Rider
>Rider beats Caster
>Caster beats Assassin
>Berserker beats everybody

>>158212123
Sieg straight out asks Jeanne if Servants can get pregnant.

>>158185935
Are you calling me an illegal immigrant?

>>158210430
Same reason Japan would freak out if Chinese portrayed Oda Nobunaga as a deformed goblin.

>>158212997
The Chinese wouldn't retcon it though. Higashide should've stuck to his guns instead of retconning it within the week.

>>158212997
The funny thing is that for most of its history China really disliked Qin Shi Huang and no orthodox Chinese emperor cared to be associated with him or his memory. It was only in the modern era that patriotic nationalists rehabilitated his historical reputation as a great unifier.

>>158211045
>All of his power comes from the real power he actually had when he was alive.
???
Did u not watch UBW? Assassin man literally did not exist and was only materialized due to the myths that surround him, therefore the grail summons the romanticized tales of legends and gives them their exaggerated powers.
Nothing to do with real life

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>>158212800
Jeanne per se couldn't, but Laeticia could.

>>158213513
>watch
Also, you are wrong.

>>158178654
Mikołaj Tesłowski was a proud Pole. Although the chochols will try to claim him for Ukraine and baselesly call him Mykola Teslenko.

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>>158212800
Was it here?

>>158189494
>rin is a kike

as if doing degenerate sex acts for money wasn't clue enough.

>>158213513
Assassin actually existed, he just wasn't Sasaki Kojiro. He was a nameless farmer who could perform the technique associated with Kojiro.

>>158213237
And lose Chinabux?

>>158217562
Can Chinese actually play FGO or is it all Taiwanese?

>>158213513
No. "Sasaki Kojiro" didn't exist
The servant summoned as Sasaki wasn't actually Sasaki but some random guy who could do the same shit as Sasaki from the legends. So he was summoned instead since he's the closest thing to Sasaki Kojiro

>>158218968
FGO already has a Chinese localization and Taiwanese localization

>>158177777
Yes, in the source material AND the adaption.
Wasted fucking quints on a shitposting /v/eddit crossboarder.

>>158178014
Gilgamesh being a golden faggot is just a hard overusage of him having been an amazing king.

>>158178654
Actually, since these are legends, Uruk is sometimes said to have been visited by aliens cause story has it they possessed knowledge about space, that we need centuries for.

>>158219740
What if I told Gilgamesh that jade is better than gold?

>>158177777
The Ionioi Hetairoi are not his entire army, just his elite Companion cavalry troop. The ones who rode into battle with him at the forefront.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Companion_cavalry

The bulk of his army is not included in immortality.

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>>158178014
well the Epic of Gilgamesh says "he's the most beautiful man"

can you really blame Nasu for thinking that a blonde white male with red eyes is more attractive than a sandnigger? : ^ )

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>>158223641

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>>158198311
> Angra Mainyu the scapegoat wearing Shirou's face has sweet fuck all to do with Zoroastrianism and only exists so Shirou can have rape scenes in HA


or maybe...
because it's been established since HF, that Angra Mainyu doesn't have a self of its own?

but noooo...
obviously Nasu has foreseen that he's gonna need his MC for a rape scene later in a fandisc, so for that purpose only, he wrote that into the story.

>>158201300
>Shirou
>not a self insert when he made his character completely inconsistent so users wouldn't feel threatened and self insert more

elaborate pls, because you're talking mad shit

>>158203110
Gilgamesh posses the ability to see beyond the beyond and they are not from "god".