Okay, memes aside, did he actually do something wrong? If so,

yes. the fuck is wrong with you

>>158031609
>merging the spirit world with the human world such that atrocities/demons come through
he fucked up

>>158031634
But that doesn't explain anything? What exactly did he do wrong?

>>158031609
I mean yeah, of course.
Both the massacre and the rape were pretty selfish things to do.
I can understand why he did them, doesn't make it right.

To be honest I'd sacrifice all of my friends to restore my body under those circumstances too.

>>158031609
Premarital sex isn't right.

>>158032044
That doesn't make it right.

Rape is pretty wrong bro.

Consensual sex in the missionary position for the purpose of procreation is the only right way to engage in sexual congress.

>>158031609
he did not kill guts and caska

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What he did right and up to the eclipse was undeniably questionable, but you have to consider the fact that the way fate works in Berserk he was destined to do so. There was nothing he could've done to avoid things going that way, everything was quite literally shaped for him to be born that way and for him to make those decisions, yes, even the sacrifice of his own comrades. If you see things in that perspective it's hard to have a clear judgement on the matter.

After he became Femto on the other hand it's another issue entirely. Unless he's still bound by fate like he was in human form (I seem to recall GH along with very few other beings are disconnected from casualty and have free will, could be wrong though) what he did was pretty bad, and I'm not only speaking about Casca's rape

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>>158031609
Honestly, this entire debate can be over if people can just decide on what is "evil". Hurting others for personal gain? If so, Griffith was always evil, so was the entire Band of the Hawk. They killed people left and right for personal reasons. But if that can be justified, so can the massacre of the Band of the Hawk. The only distinction between the two is who is dying. Before, it was the group you labeled as "evil enemies" dying, now the ones dying are the "good friends". And that literally means nothing. They're dying for the same reason the "evil enemies" died for. To make Griffith's dream come true.

And just to clarify, he didn't kill the Band of the Hawk. He asked for power. In return, the Godhand killed the Band of the Hawk. If he COULD have the power without sacrificing anyone, he would go for it. As shown with Rickert. After gaining power, he asked him to join, rather than just kill him.
As for raping Casca part, he technically saved her too. She was about to be tentacle raped and killed by literal demons. He saved her and for that he was rewarded. What would Casca prefer, being raped and killed by beasts, or have sex with the man of her dreams? Yes, he could not take anything in return for saving her, but that's really neither here or there.

So really, if Griffith did do something wrong, it was having a dream. And everyone who followed him also did just as wrong things. But if that part can be justified, then Griffith truly did nothing wrong. And I believe Griffith did nothing wrong.

His actions were explainable until the rape. The rape was solely done to stick it to guts.

>>158032344
If he has true free will as a GH, doesn't that mean he's derailed causality by continuing to chase his old human dreams by making his kingdom and having apostles protect humans?

>>158032636
Maybe he still needs to fulfill his promise and justify killing so many people?

>>158032433
>And just to clarify, he didn't kill the Band of the Hawk.
Technically he didn't, but he knew full well that the Band of the Hawk would all be killed if he accepted.

>>158031609
He lost his cool and made a mistake and fucked the princess. Ultimately things were going perfectly for him until he fucked it up himself and people had to die to and make up for it (Eclipse) and on top of all he blamed it all on someone else to justify himself, or rationalized it being his "destiny"

He did everything wrong. What a hypocrite and now the entire planet is about to get fucked over

>>158031609
Betraying those who risked their lives to save your ass, making them being devoured by demons and comdening them to suffer in hell forever. Raping your only friend's lover.
Flooding the world with monsters, and passing as savior of humanity when you create a city where humans are safe from the monsters YOU set out in the world.
Hunting down witches who were protecting spirit trees.
Merging the world with the astral plane, letting out even more monsters (and even worse ones at that) in the real world.
The list goes on.

>>158031609
I haven't actually watched Berserk but from what I've gathered from such threads what he did wrong was not getting his priorities straight.
What was his endgame again?
Having a kingdom or something?

>>158036277
Go read Berserk and then come back.

>>158036277
He was a believer of the ideology of gender and always wanted to be a bird.

>>158034864
>Betraying those who risked their lives
He didn't "betray" them. From the very beginning, he sent them to fight in countless wars, where they can die at any time, for his personal goal. And in the end, that's what got them killed. He still aimed for that goal. He didn't change or betray. He achieved what they helped him achieve.

>devoured by demons and comdening them to suffer in hell forever
Not exactly his fault. That's just how this works.

>Raping your only friend's lover
Raped, but ultimately saved her life.

>Flooding the world with monsters
Just a side effect of his very existence. You can't blame him for existing.

>a city where humans are safe from the monsters YOU set out in the world
Yeah, that's a good thing.

>Hunting down witches who were protecting spirit trees
Not much different from Soldiers who were protecting their country. Which literally everyone has killed, at some point.

>Merging the world with the astral plane, letting out even more monsters (and even worse ones at that) in the real world.
No defense for this. Kind of a dick move.

>>158032433
At what point does justifications make evil into doing good? This may be a black and white view on things but justifications aren't a band aid to suddenly fix everything. He was evil from the start. So was Guts and Casca and everyone killing for profit. This is not a setting where there are good guys, Antiheroes at best. That's why it's so dark. It's a power fantasy with demigod level feats being accomplished by ordinary men. If you want a cheery story with no evil in it and I do recommend that from time to time go watch a nice comedy or slice of life. Berserk isn't about people being good.

>>158036547
Its time to get off 4chan griffith, no ones buying it

>>158031609
Everything, but what he did is understandable, I think I would've done the same. Griffith is too much considered as a terribly evil fuck whereas I believe he's more like very selfish and upstart

>>158036395
I don't what to read something I know will make me angry.

>>158036821
Then why are you in a thread specifically created to get into fights over it?

>>158036700
Then what does separate evil from good? Those who kill, no matter the reason, are evil? Or those who just hurt others, to their lives better, are evil?
Because if it's the former, the number of evil people go down by a lot. Even torture isn't evil in that case. If it's the latter, the number of evil people go up exponentially. Now, the vast majority is evil, because people take from others to live. That's life.

If it depends on how much you hurt, that hurting a bit is okay, but a lot isn't, then where do we draw the line? What's the clear distinction between a lot and a little?

>>158036547
They didn't want to die. They were with Griffith only because his band was strong. The only ones who were a bit further were Casca, Judeau and maybe Pipin.
All the others were ready to jump ship and leave with Guts as soon as they saw that Griffith would never be normal again.
I don't even know why I'm answering this obvious bait though, look at your other "arguments".

>>158036842
Because its not enraging to get into fights when you don't feel personally involved.

>>158036916
>Now, the vast majority is evil, because people take from others to live. That's life.
You've figured it out. From a frame of reference of a much more civilized society everything in Berserk is evil. You have to figure out your own moral boundaries but I guarantee that the more you justify evil shit in an ever increasing amount of wrong it's going to lower your morals and where you draw the line. If you still believe yourself to be a good person after all the justifications then you have cognitive dissonance. The reason to read Berserk is that it's cathartic to the bloodlust we still have in us as a species. I hope humanity will grow out of it but it's not going to be any time soon.

>>158036946
>They didn't want to die
Yeah, well, no one wants to die. It's just the job they took on could only be completed with their deaths. They signed up to help Griffith's dream come true, and Griffith was pretty much useless at that point, so the only way to make those dream come true was their death. Sure, they didn't sign up to die, but they didn't specify they WOULDN'T die under any circumstance. Because they signed up for war. A war that would eventually end up taking on entire countries. They were prepared for it. I don't see how that wasn't betrayal.

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>>158031609
>did he actually do something wrong?
No. If one actually opens their mind, they would discover that Griffith and Donovan are the heroes of Berserk. Childhood is siding with Guts, adulthood is realizing that Griffith and Donovan were completely in the right.

>>158037355
Signing up to fight in a war is one thing. Nobody signed up to get eaten by monsters.

>>158037625
Yeah, they signed up for nothing specific, but to help Griffith achieve his goals. I doubt they made an agreement where they said they wouldn't fight demons.

>>158037355
>guys, you're signing up for a job whose end relies on making your crippled commander who brought him upon himself by acting foolishly an elder demon god by sacrificing your souls to eternal suffering after being eviscerated by a horde of hellish nightmare-fuel monsters
>oh also, said commander will then proceed to fuck the world over by crippling the balance between various planes to the point of no return

I'm pretty sure none of them signed up for something like that.

>>158037715
I doubt they made an agreement where they said they would go to such lenghts to help Griffith achieve his dream as well, your point being?

>>158037810
No, but they also didn't say they WOULDN'T go to any lengths. So it was fair game. They signed up for a job, they completed that job.

>>158037862
Better call OSHA.

>>158037862
You're speaking on a purely logical level while most if not all of the point of the discussion is about the moral side of it.

I don't get what you're even trying to prove, that they were ready to get massacred in an hellish nightmare because they didn't say they wouldn't? So I guess Guts was fine with Femto raping Casca and mindbreaking her because he didn't say he wouldn't be?

>>158031609
Everything he did beore being reborn into the world would have been justifiable in a utilitarian sense if he used the accquired power to make everything great but, he just flooded the world with monsters and ultimately serves the Idea of Evil.

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>>158031609
Define "wrong". The guy had an overarching goal that framed his whole life, a mental breakdown, then been tortured for a whole year, and after that he found himself up in the state where he clearly can't achieve his goal. Is it wrong to sacrifice a whole bunch of people for your own meaning of your life? I have no idea.

>>158038076
Let's look at the moral side, then.

He didn't want to kill them, but when he sacrificed them, he was surrounded by monsters that could and likely would kill everyone, he was unable to walk or talk and the situation was literally the worst it could be. But if he did sacrifice them, he could have everything he wanted, and the situation would be all around better. So morally, did he do anything wrong? No. In fact, he made the right call. If he had also died, it would mean all who died serving him died in vain. So the morally right choice there was to move forward, which he did.

>>158038461
Not him but you are talking like a sociopath who is logically explaining cost benefit analysis as morals.

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>>158038461
The important part is that there's a lot of moral intepretations to the world. For the clarity sake I will use the model by Johnathan Heidt consisting of six moral dimensions: Respect and authority, Loyalty, Freedom, Fairness, Care and Purity.

One of the dimensions of human morality is loyalty. Grifiith has clearly violated principles of loyalty when he sacrificed his band. At the same there are for instance dimensions of respect and freedom, and we can say that Griffith exercised his authority by power and freedom of following his own goals. It's also can be argued that he made the world purer by building Falconia and uniting the humans, so there's that.

>>158038461
So why did he rape Casca forcing Guts to watch? Care to explain how morally righteous that was? On a bigger scale, why did he tear the world apart by fucking with the laws of nature and filling it with shit like the Sea God condemning all humans who cannot get to Falconia to inevitable death? That was for the sake of his dream, but where does it stand morally?

and by the way I love Griffith as a character, I just don't get people like you