Villains who were more reasonable than the heroes.

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>>158030478

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>>158030478

Whats a good anime to get a hitler screenshot out of?

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>>158030478
>>158030511
>>158030527
oh wow what a start

>>158030527
>floods literally the entire world with trolls
>reasonable
Griffith is a walking ANCAP meme

>when you own the only bottled water vendor in 300 miles and poison a town's water supply so you can jack up prices by 2000% and still be the good guy

FMA

>>158030478
He wasn't reasonable. He was technically right, but he certainly wasn't reasonable.

>>158030660
He was the very definition of reasonable. He only ever did things in accordance with rational and reasoned thought.

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>>158030660
>>158031288
>spend literally 7 threads arguing about Kyubey
>still can't even agree which corner he's supposed to be in
kek

>>158033338
>(100,100)

>>158033338
>Umaru
>100 deserved

>>158033338
Kyoko and Sayaka are ranked higher on Deserved than I would expect them to be.

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>>158030478
The main magic users from Dorohedoro.

>>158034553
At some point the x axis was changed from "How much they deserved it", removing the "it" at the end which is something I don't agree with. The intention is that the broad middle columns are for flawed characters, antiheroes, and characters that are partly responsible for their own undoing, which fits the Madoka characters right around the middle-left.

>>158035548
Removing the it was the right choice. Otherwise it could be misinterpreted that people with 100 deserved it and 0 suffering deserved zero suffering.

If it makes you feel any better you could always read the two axis together i.e. "How much they deserved suffering"

>>158035660
I can't agree. For example Yunyun is at 15 suffering and 35 deserved. The point of that placement isn't that she deserved to suffer more, but that having no friends was partially because of her own social awkwardness.

>>158031288
>He only ever did things in accordance with rational
This can be argued.

>and reasoned thought.
This cannot. He cannot be reasoned with.

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>>158035969
>rea·soned adj
>underpinned by logic or good sense.
>reasoned (rizənd )
>A reasoned discussion or argument is based on sensible reasons, rather than on an appeal to people's emotions.

He was nothing if not logical, sure he was coldly logical and wouldn't/couldn't accept emotional arguments, but still, reasoned.

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>>158034553
I dont get how getting cucked is near close to getting all your family killed.

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>>158036586
What the fuck is wrong with you?

>>158033338
Nanachi is more deserving than that, she cut up dozens of kids and was a huge cunt to Reg at first.

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>>158036636
>transforming into an avatar of suffering
>all the other characters get brought back to life at the end of the show except for you
gee I don't know

>>158034845
Were they really villains though? When I read it they had become more like a second POV for the main story to play out.

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>>158036662
You're right, what kuybey actually looks like is the female reproductive system.

>>158037017
brb gonna go look at those kyubey doujins again.

>>158036662
Sorry. My post got deleted anyway (probably for the best)

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>>158030478

>>158037297
I unironically like papa Bondrewd. I have a soft spot for scientifically minded characters who do what they have to do for the good of all.

>you will never be one of his shadow hands studying the abyss and making scientific history
Feels bad man.

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>>158036901
It's kind of a pointless cycle of violence, in which both sides are good to their own, but absolutely terrible to everyone else. Not sure who started it.

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>>158036900
>all the other characters get brought back to life at the end of the show except for you
I always thought that was some real bullshit.

At least Sayaka makes the most of it and gets a power/maturity upgrade in Rebellion.

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>>158030478
This glorious bastard

>>158037107
>kyubey
>doujins
What

>>158038137
>He doesnt know

>>158037782
This.

>>158037510

He's such a great villain. Not even the protagonists can bring themselves to hate him in the end, despite all the horrible shit he did.

>>158031288

In the series he was either trying to orchestrate the actual ending from the start or to destroy the universe with the supreme witch. Netheir action was very rational. In Rebellion he was dicking with powers beyond his understanding to replace a system that worked with a system that might have worked slightly better.

The problem with making a truly rational and reasonable villain is difficulty of keeping him a villan if those qualities are true (that's why such villains often fall into the "actually just narcissistic and incapable of compehending viewpoints and thought processes different from his own" category), and the fact that if he still stays a villain while remaining rational and reasonable, he's likely to simply win.

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>>158030478

>>158030478
>more reasonable than teenage girls that were specifically picked for being emotional
Geee you really picked a high hurdle to step over this time.
Might be even ankle height.

>>158030478
>KB
>villain
>Homura
>hero
the only reasonable girl was Madoka for not going for KB's promises instantly and figuring out that you need a foolproof wording of the contract to not get fucked

Rebellion basically shows that QB was wrong regardless of what "good" he was trying to do

>>158041870
Rebellion pushes QB's "villainy" a lot more than the series but it doesn't change the fundamentals of what makes him a difficult character to judge morally, which is that he is both a lot more intelligent than humans and a fully emotionless being. Depending on your point of view he can be anything from a jackass to a dindu nuthin to a robot.

>>158037782
this fucking idiot didn't even know what he wanted.

>>158041201
>Madoka
>not going for QB's promises instantly
What the fuck? She tries to contract like 10 times and each time Homura has to bail her out.

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>>158036832
Why though, she basically tried (and succeeded) to murder 2000+ people for her own selfish objectives, I don't get how she was more reasonable than Rika that just wanted to live a happy life with her friends.

>>158041201
Madoka tried to contract a bunch of times in the last timeline. I mean, Homura shot Kyubey one of those times

>>158033338
where will Chariot go?

>>158033338
>Eren deserves to suffer as much as Shion
Well, at least Yami's position gave me a good laugh

>>158033338
how is okabe rintarou on the same suffering level as griffith??
I mean, okabe saw his loved ones die multiple times but he knew he could just keep going back in time, instead Griffith had years of terrible torture all day everyday

>>158044724
Well, she was trying to prove the existence of mind altering parasites which would have saved more people than she killed (in the long run). That being said her true intentions were as you said, regardless of what she ended up accomplishing

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>>158030478

>>158030478
Dio did nothing wrong

>>158046202
I kind of want to watch this show but this guy's face and design pisses me off so much I stop every time

>>158041870
>Episode 10 basically shows that QB was wrong regardless of what "good" he was trying to do
Fixed that for you. The incubators fully knew that Madoka becoming meguca would result in a witch powerful enough to wipe out all life on Earth, and even then getting her to make the contract is what they went out of their way to do, in every single time line Homura jumped through. Who cares that filling the damn energy quota was going to get everyone killed, huh?

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>>158033338
>Oghi 100% deserved
>nearly got off scot-free

>mikoto deserving any suffering
what the fuck is wrong with you

>>158040191
>implying my qt catboy (female) is a villain
c'mon senpai it's like you're /trying/ to hurt me feelings

>>158033338
who's above rika?

>>158046304
>Who cares that filling the damn energy quota was going to get everyone killed, huh?
They deem rational to sacrifice one planet/race to save whole Universe. I mean if humans were in charge of saving Universe, we easily would xenocided whole star systems if not Galaxies.

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>>158030478
Homura did NOTHING wrong.

>>158030478
>>158036391
> gives a method to fucking teenagers to become fucking deities and reshape the world to their liking
> more reasonable

>>158047230
This is a thread about villains, anon

>>158047376
No one gives a shit what happens to earth but earthlings, so no one who matters gives a shit what happens to earth.

>>158047376
What if you wished for infinite good luck?

>>158047571
who was talking about Earth?
The Incubators were the one to give Madoka aa method to reshape the whole fucking universe.
Granted, she didn't fuck up, but the fact that they've given this kind of power to a teenager is fucking lunacy.

>>158046202
Technically he was right, no sentient species should obliterate another sentient species unless it endangers its existence. Evolved Humans are the most racist things in existence in that show on most media I watched.

>>158047729
That was a simple miscalculation, who could have guessed that entangled timelines would occur because of forbidden love and exponentially raise the power of the wish. .

>>158046202
He did one thing wrong.

He lost ;_;

>>158047900
> who could've guessed that giving a mentally unstable teenager the power to create multiple parallel realities

>>158048015
cont.
would not be a bad idea

the problem is, even they don't know how the fuck magic works.
they're just so afraid of something that shouldn't happen in for another billion years, that they're willing to risk to fuck everything in the present

>>158048088
>heat death
>billion years
more like 10^100 years

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It's sad that no one has mentioned Makishima Shogo... He is the pinnacle of "The villain that you love more than the heroes.".

>>158048088
Was it ever actually stated that they were only pushing off the eventual death of the universe? I remember when I watched this years ago I got the impression that the only real reason the universe hadn't collapsed yet was because of QB's race reversing entropy with little girls.

I have a phD in thermodynamics. Kyuubey was right.

>>158048165
Fun villain. Still a dick though.

>>158048165

>>>/y/

>>158048141
But that's 10^100 years only after taking into account the rate that Kyubey is adding extra energy into the system.

>>158048449
It's why they are called villains, though. If they were goody-two-shoes, then they would not be categorised as such...

>>158048230
They were indeed pushing back the eventual heat death, as it's not like they could get infinite energy (which is what you need to indefinitely stop the heat death from happening).

>>158048800
Yes, but I wouldn't say he was reasonable. He was intelligent and entertaining as a character, but he still did terrible unjustified things.

At first glance QB's goal seems reasonable, until you realize that the heat death of the universe is like a trillion+ years in the future, an amount of time that no species could actually care enough about to do something.

There's also the matter of tricking little girls into making contracts so that they can become witches, even though it would be easier to just tell the truth. Their method will eventually result in humanity's ruin, forcing them to start from scratch, wasting millions of years worth of time in the process. They are also capable of purifying soul gems themselves, so instead of creating a sustainable "farm" of magical girls, they instead look for unpredictable short burst of energy.

>>158047230
She was a selfish cunt

>>158033338
Whos the girl above the original homunculus

>>158030533
Now and Then, Here and There has a Hitler lookalike as the villain.

>>158036832
She killed so many people because "waa my grandpa can't prove a theory"

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>>158049351
>an amount of time that no species could actually care enough about to do something.
I don't think planning ahead is really the problem so much as his willingness to destroy all of humanity to achieve his work quota.

>>158049814
Deadlines are deadlines, my man, and nobody wants to work weekends

>>158046720
>>158049542
Here's the list of all the characters in the chart
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rto2TZrsW7FwFK-SHz41TcZG7NoTAvlbdMobsL7CSzk/

>>158049351
When were they able to purify soul gems I though they only disposed of spent grief seeds.

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>>158049914
You know, fair enough, but you'd think they'd at the very least want to keep humanity at a healthy equilibrium if their emotions are the key to stopping entropy.

The next Incubator picking up Kyubey's shift will be shit out of luck.

>>158050242
There's something like 300,000,000,000 planets in our galaxy alone. The QB running the space night shift can just find another

>>158050297
QB specifically stated that it was human preteen girls who's emotional shifts were sufficient to be used as a power source.

>>158050371
That they know of. There are always more. Plus the QBs could have ran the math and computed that the energy they harvested from Witch Madoka would have been greater than all energy harvested from normie magical girls in the future so it was still worth it. They're good at math.

>>158047230
Until Rebellion

>>158048289
Then you'll know that his definition of entropy was complete horseshit

>>158050116
Its in a spin-off manga, featuring a QB that has emotions and actually gives a shit about the girls.

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>>158047230
>>158050608
I mean, getting ready to axe off Sayaka because she was tired of her witching out wasn't her finest moment.

>>158050242
I know it's non-canon territory, but the PSP game had an extra-terrestrial witch.
so other alien civilizations with emotions besides humanity, might actually be out there ready to be farmed

>>158041201
>the only reasonable girl was Madoka for not going for KB's promises instantly and figuring out that you need a foolproof wording of the contract to not get fucked
there was never any contract wording fuckery, QB respected what was wished for. the other girls either didn't think their wishes through or weren't sure what they wanted - falling into despair once things inevitably didn't work out

>>158050443
In episode 10 I got the feeling that the madoka shift essentially powered their civ indefinitely which is why qb gave no fucks about earth being doomed after. The fact qb says it's "humanities problem now" is one of the reasons I think qb isn't innocent at all. Also considering qb acts perplexed everytime something gets revealed and the maguka squad gets pissed. How the fuck does qb not figure this stuff out after thousands of years doing this. lies by ommision.

>>158047230
Ripping the Goddess of Hope's soul in half for selfish reasons isn't wrong apparently

>>158050709
That's one of the few things she did wrong. She's more of a 25-30 than a 45 on this chart >>158033338

>>158050821
Do we know where Walpurgisnacht came from?

>>158050918
Well, since it's suffering vs how much they deserved, and Homura essentially rewrites all of reality, Homura is directly responsible for her own suffering, and therefore deserves all of the suffering she obtains.

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Why is my waifu, Miki Sayaka-chan, the most perfect and amazing waifu in the anime industry?

>>158050961
Oh, deserved as in "personally responsible"? I thought it was deserved as in "morally deserved", that's usually what these charts are

>>158050874
By that logic, was mami's wish the only one immune to regret?

>>158051073
She visibly regrets it. It's implied that she rashly wished to save her own life instead of something else (like her family's as well, or just wishing for the accident to not have happened)

>>158050939
It's a witch with the ability to absorb other witches into it, becoming a huge mega-witch conglomeration

>>158031663
how are these guys reasonable in any way? They are race traitors of the highest caliber wanting to commit genocide against their own people.

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>>158046560
>Schrödinger
>Female
You wot?

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>>158033338
>Mumen Rider having "Deserved" any higher than Zero

>>158051585
Mumen Rider chose his suffering

>>158041201
But Madoka did get fucked. Her existence was erased and became a concept. Just because she acts like she is fine with it doesn't mean she is alright, it only means she is a suicidal fool with very little regard to her own self (which she totally is.)

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>>158030478
Nothing wrong

>>158051738
Does madoka have the worst self esteem of the whole cast?

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>>158030478

>>158051978
That's Sayaka or Homura. Aside from her mom, Madoka probably has the best.

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>>158051978
>>158052115
Madoka had pretty low self esteem, thinking that she'd never amount to anything.

But the whole group kind of hates themselves at some point, so it's hard to judge.

>>158052284
Why is everything related to Homura german? She's not a euro, is she?

>>158051738
>Madoka never got the opportunity to learn the principles of femdom from her mom
being a concept sucks

>>158052388
The main girls are all japanese, become magical girls through ancient alien's technology, and as a result turn into witches with german-sounding names.
Maybe it is because of that honorary aryans thing?

>>158052388
There is a lot of German influence in the series. Witch names are usually Germanic, if not outright German. You could make the argument that the school is aesthetically a futuristic gothic design.

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>>158052388
The witches and their names in general have a pretty German folklore vibe. Like Walpurgisnacht.

>>158052828
>Germans declare the Japanese honorary aryans
Did the Japs declare the Germans honorary Japanese?

>>158052897
Imperial Japan and the 3rd Reich respected each others efforts to strive for racial and cultural purity

>>158052866
do not sexualize the clara dolls

>>158052388
> Faust

>>158052854
Their school's windows are so hug I bet that building is a fucking sauna 99% of the time, it would be like ants going to school where the roof is a magnifying glass.

Also are all the megucas richfags? Their school and houses all look expensive as fuck.

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>>158053673
The architecture and housing gives me a semi-futuristic modern art vibe.

>>158052897
there are literally only 2 gaijins that has ever achieved that.

>>158047230
Agreed.

She saved Madoka from herself

>>158053896
Name them

>>158050913
>selfish
end this meme

>>158054388
some dutch weaabo and an english sailor.

>>158050874
>QB respected what was wished for.
QB didn't have any say you dumb dumb. He's just some vessel who locates girls who will produce power when given the contract and then offers it. He's just some random foot soldier for whatever ayy lmao species he belongs to. Madoka became God because of her power, and nothing else. The power granted by Homura's eternal fuckery of time over and over again.

>>158030478
>exploits emotional energy
>chooses teen girls as his vessels instead of depressed virginal /r9k/ users

IT'S NOT FAIR I WANT TO BE A MAGICAL GIRL

>>158056597
but anon, they're already well on the path to wizardry
they don't need qb

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>>158057051
Fair point

>>158051501
>State of superposition between male and female until cat penis has (not) been observed

>>158051019
So Sayaka did very wrong?

>>158046106
The position takes into account S;G 0 Okabe who basically just suffers continuously (ie. suddenly being teleported into WW3 Japan at a happy Christmas Party) and then deletes his own existence with operation Skuld


basically he just gets totally dicked over by Reading Steiner if he isn't the asshole fucking with time


Also Chart Anon would probably tell you to go fuck yourself

Kyubi and his race were not reasonable. They didn't tell the girls their souls would leave their bodies or that they would become witches so it was an unfair contract. Kyubis are space jews.

>>158059625
>They didn't tell the girls their souls would leave their bodies or that they would become witches
They never asked

>>158030572
Valentine was legit tho
Johnny had no reason to pursue Jesus beyond being a moralfag cripple
Gryo at least had a legitimate reason but yeah...

>>158059744
You cant just add things in a contract without giving the other person at least the opportunity to see it. It's not like Kyubi gave them a big written contract they just didn't bother to read, there was literally no way they could have known about either of those factors. It's not a contract at that point it's just a lie.

>>158037782
literally did nothing wrong

>>158059826
A lie of omission anyway. Kyubey never outright lies to anyone, but he does shepherd their ideas into a way of thinking that benefits him.

>>158046277
it wont bother you after the first arc dont worry

>>158051019
If you like cucked waifus.

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>>158051019
Top-tier taste.

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>>158048165
>liking a guy that slits an innocent girl's throat in cold blood

i think i'll stick with the heroes, thanks