logh

>Expecting #NeverGoldenbaumers being capable of logic

>>157992972
Someone authoritarian like Rudolf was needed but the whole inferior genes thing just came as a shitty side-dish.

>>157992972

Buddy this is the whole point that the anime makes

There is no one right or wrong ideology capable of being "the right one" for humanity on a whole. Different styles of government were required for different periods of time due to different circumstances in each one. Over the course of LOGH the Empire becomes far more democratic and meritocracy in order to combat the decadent parts of the nobility and idea of birth rate while in the Free Planets Alliance it ends up relying on populism formed around one man and then worshipping his successor to take up the mantle of democracy and defend the ideology.

If you're vaccinated enough to not actually realize this very -unsubtle- core point of the entirety of LOGH then maybe you should go count your chromosomes again.

>hurr there's only two options
>he either rises to power or he doesn't
Or... he could step down from power after his democratic term ended, instead of abolishing democracy and establishing the empire.

>>157995464
Not really. The whole point of the show was that Reinhard was a based man with flawless and fair rule. Author has a crush on dictatorship because you can't really make points that justifiable dictatorships exist. For sure not in the west atleast. Other than that ideologies were simplified to the degree that it's impossible to conclude that he was trying to tell that different times needs different measures. And it's not mentioned anywhere either.

>>157992972
It's hard to say because whole he went way too far with his regressive ideology, putting your boot on the throat of the populace is usually the only way to hold such a massive Empire under control of a single dynasty for so long. He saw a chance and he took it, he knew by using regressive puritan style ideals right after all of humanity already disappeared in an age of debauchery and destruction that he could rally the people on such a huge social movement that would also give him retarded amounts of control. With a mix of greed, pride, and questionable judgement he then picked a scapegoat crowd to pin blame for and purged them from society as a means of purifying the population and bolster it's strength (a tactic common amongst dictators is creating an enemy to unite your people against and distract them from/explain away any fucked up stuff you do).

>>157995925
Except they also show that Reinhard was a genius who appeared perfect but had several flaws including his pride, his drive to be a soldier, his naivety of certain situations, and his fear of becoming like the Goldenbaum empire.

The point of the show is these legends, these gods amongst men, were still ordinary people at their core. They made dumb decisions sometimes, they were clouded by emotions, they even died sometimes in rather simple ways like disease or accidents. The average man of today can be viewed as a legend from how he lives, because all legends were at some point an ordinary person.

>>157995811
You mean not have the power to make reforms and watch status quo continue to push things down the shitter. The point of seizing power is to make the changes, seizing power comes first. Then you have the issue of institutions, the old ones would be corrupt and oppose you so you need new ones if you want to actually maintain order, thus the creation of the nobility. One doesn't simply reform a nation while leaving the power structure intact, it's impossible.

So who was the underdog? Yang or Reinhard?

>>157995925
From the very beginning when it starts looking that Reinhard might make a pretty swell leader, the author won't let you forget that no matter how fair and just he may be and even if he never corrupts himself, he will not be emperor forever and there's no guarantee that whoever takes over for him is the same. There's also the little matter that a lot of blood had to be spilt to get where he is and the same would be required to kick him or his dynasty off if needed.

>>157996556
They kept repeating that Reinhard was perfect constantly though. Otherwise yeah, it's a good space war drama.

>>157996931
>They kept repeating that Reinhard was perfect constantly though.
Did you only listen to the words of his men or something? He was a genius and amazing leader/autocrat, but he was loaded with faults. He wasn't as damned by his faults as most people but people like Oberstein, Kircheis, Yang, Hilda, Reinhard himself, or anyone who wasn't blinded by loyalty or hatred of him could see his faults and several of them told them to his face. The narrator points out his faults several times even. Reinhard was a man amongst men, truly superior in many fields in a once in a generation type of aptitude/ability, but he wasn't perfect. If he was perfect he wouldn't have an absolute tactical loss record against Yang, and more importantly he wouldn't have let that get to him as much as it did.

Nobody in the entirety of this show was perfect, the one person who comes close is Oberstein.

>>157997253
They didn't really criticize any supposed faults of Reinhard, rather his planned actions e.g. Oberstein regarding Westerland. Or his actual actions e.g. Kircheis after Westerland(though you could interpret it as a fault of Reinhard, eitherway it's only one single mishap) the rest as I recall is only critique of dictatorial rule. Yang for instance spoke highly of Reinhard.

If you're arguing that Reinhard isn't perfect, there's no need because I don't believe in things like that.

>>157997836
Oberstein told Reinhard his initial plan for warning Westerland was stupid and he was a naive idiot if he thought that was a good idea, several times Oberstein called out Reinhard on his tactics when they went over the line and straight up called him a selfish idiot for wanting to mount an offensive against Iserlohn after they conquered the FPA. He pointed out that he served the empire, not necessarily Reinhard, and if Reinhard did this that he would be becoming a new Goldenbaum and Oberstein (and the people) might oppose such stupid/selfish ideas.

Hilda and Kircheis also opposed several plans/actions that Reinhard had, Hilda even discussed with Annerose the faults and weaknesses of Reinhard. Kircheis knew that weaknesses more than anyone. Everyone close to Reinhard idolized him but also acknowledged he's got faults.

>Yang for instance spoke highly of Reinhard.
You can speak highly of someone but still criticize them. In certain aspects they considered Reinhard perfect, but overall they saw him as just an exemplary man.

Hilda is best grill

>>157996839
Yang could have killed Reinhard

>>157998280
When it comes to Westerland Reinhards initial plans weren't naive just very based on standard morality, and it was actually the better way because war crimes are shit. We need to clarify which aspects of Reinhard were perfect because that's where the whole idea comes from.

>>157998408
Fredrika superior by a mile.

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>>157998703
>>157998408
Best girl right here

>>157998670
But as Oberstein pointed out, such sentimental thinking is not logical and counterproductive in a war. You have no obligation to stop this act, it's not something you are doing but an act of idiocy from your opponent. The civil war they were fighting leaned towards Reinhard victory but that wasn't certain, it would also lead to deaths that totaled much higher than Westerland and put huge economic station on the entire Empire not to mention if the coup cleared up the FPA could strike at any moment and possibly crush the entire Empire. This was a heartless but logical and ultimately necessary decision that had to be made in order to secure the Goldenlowe Empire and push forward to unifying the galaxy, Reinhard knew this was an accurate summation made by Oberstein but he couldn't pull the trigger.

Oberstein proceeded to take it upon himself to play the devil so Reinhard could be viewed as innocent in the public eye and from his men, but he used this as a lesson that Reinhard could not be perfect if he wished to be an emperor and whether he wanted to or not blood WOULD end up on his hands. Oberstein called Reinhard naive, because that's what he is in that he wanted idealistic perfect victories. As you say, war trials suck but a war that you can potentially lose is much worse.

There were better options. Dialogue, understanding, cooperation. Violence is never the option unless its a people's uprising against the class enemy.

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>"I shall make peace with the rebels."
>Yang dies
>"Never mind, I refuse to make peace with those dumb rebels."

>"I shall make peace with the rebels."
>Reinhard catches the flu
>"Never mind, I refuse to make peace with those stupid rebels."

>"I shall make peace with the rebels."
>one of Reinhard's ships panics and attacks Julian
>"Never mind, I refuse to make peace with those fucking rebels."

How many millions of lives were lost because Reinhard was bored by negotiations and instead preferred to have fun by waging war?

>>158000117
Reinhard didn't trust the rebels, he trusted and respected Yang. When he died he had no reason to wage war or accept a compromise they might offer, he knew the time to stomp them out would come or he could wait till they die.

When he was sick he was already planning to put into effect the idea that democracy and a republic could be integrated into his society so it could avoid the previous dynastys faults. But to do this he wanted to see if the light of democracy wasn't extinguished and if the student is yang could be trusted. Yang had proven himself but Julian had not.

>>158000117
hashtag #notmeinKaiser

>>157992972
His pre-emperor platform of removing corruption, re-unifying the military, cracking down on piracy, and re-invigorating culture is what saved them from fragmentation and collapse.

It's his later imperial deutschaboo behavior that ruined everything. He failed at genetics and he failed at setting up a good government. This is more because the author *needed* an evil and dysfunctional empire of space german nobles, not because space empires can only be that.

The right way to weave nobility into a system of government is to not use them as absolute power, because absolute power isn't a flaw of democracy. The failure modes of democracy are unchecked populism and an ignorant-enough electorate. History has already provided sample solutions to these. A LoGH-compatible way, retaining the use of hereditary nobles, would be to do something like a House of Lords that can veto the budget and war/treaty decisions of the elected legislature, with a high-ish threshhold for veto override; free from the continual campaigning and party politics, they'd be a moderating force. Reinhardt/Hilda would likely implement this in a meritocratic way: ranks rise through merit, and heirs are otherwise always one rank lower, so that continual effort is needed to keep their House's standing; this should apply even to the Imperial line itself.

And the correct low-tech solution to genetic issues is literally to do nothing and let evolution sort it out. The high tech solution is using germline gene therapy to swap out any known crippling flaws.