I can't believe the humans lost. Because, well, filthy communists

>>157766083
Yep, it's a tragic anime where the hero loses.

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>>157766083
>tfw the objectively best character unknowingly helped the villains win

They'll all just die off eventually. All evil is temporary.

>>157766083
There are no villains in SSY, it isn't a children's comic book. There are just different peoples with differing beliefs in unfortunate circumstances, like in real life. And also like in real life, not everything turns out well for everyone in the end, but there's always hope for improvement in the future.

>>157766741
That's nice and all, but I still think the villagers were pieces of shit. Nothing is objectively right or wrong, regardless my own feelings lead me to side with Squealer. It's ironic, for all the characters talks about ethics and honor and shit, only the "cowards" had any heart. I was physically repulsed when the characters started gasping and all that gay "oh wow the horror" shit when they found out that Squealer and the others had imprisoned the queen for trying to kill their entire colony and had replaced her with a council.

>>157767415
I agree with a lot of what Squealer did as well, but to call anyone in the show the villains is missing the point. Everyone's just scared shitless and trying to survrive, with radically different ideas on how to go about that, due to the severity of the state of the world and the wide gaps in ways of life between the peoples of the world.

This series could have been decent.

>>157767741
Come back when you're older, you'll be able to apprecaite it more.

Squealer did nothing wrong!
Except lose.

>>157767706
I'm not criticizing the writing, I understand why everything happened the way it did. Aside from a few things, there was nothing major done to be particularly convenient for either side for the sake of the plot. It's brutally logical that the villages eventually overpowered Squealer and his men without Marias child there to fight with them. But I still can't help being pissed off that he lost. Something being inevitable is not justification for anything, it's just the reasoning for it.

Didn't Squealer still have those stolen babies?
The queerats could retreat and come back with more Cantus users 10 years later

>series ends with literally nothing happening
biggest waste of potential since naruto

How much of the manga does the anime cover?

>>157768030
I got the impression that the villages killed or retrieved all of the human babies.

>>157767966
There doesn't need to be justification, because SSY isn't interested in making anything just. It doesn't want to paint one side as good and one side as evil, and have the good side triumph. It goes out of its way to portray both sides as flawed but sympathetic. If anything, it's good that it pisses you off and makes you wish things had ended differently. Because that's exactly how Saki feels at the end. She wishes that there was another way and hopes for change in the future so her descendants won't have to grow up in a world as horrible as the one she grew up in.

>>157768276
It isn't based off a manga, it's based off a novel and it covers all of it.

>>157768608
Again, you can say all that shit, but at the end of the day the villagers were the shitty ones to me. It all comes down to one thing, the village sacrificed people against their will and to prevent freedom of thought, whereas the queerats willingly chose to die in battle for the freedom of their companions who would survive.

>>157768715
If the villagers hadn't made sacrifices and controlled the thoughts of their population effectively, they'd all be dead. It was completely, 100% necessary to do so given the severity of the situation. If a single cantus user went out of control, whch can happen extremely easily under natural circumstances, it'd mean the deaths of hundreds.

>>157768715
different anon here, while the other guys totally right in neither side being good, i do believe youre supposed to find the humans shitty because they closest resemble the detached delirious mindset groups of people get when they have it too good (ie the superpowers). while the other side shows that even though they're in shitty circumstances, theyre just as shitty in heart as the folks abusing their power.

>>157768840
if you dont wipe out islam we will get wiped out by terrorists attacks! just you wait n see it'll definitely happen, we had 9/11 and we've been doing everything to prevent such a catastrophe from wiping us all out.

>>157768840
You're forgetting the part where the childrens fears which lead to them becoming fiends or karma demons were implanted in their minds by the brainwashing of their elders. It's highly possible nothing so drastic would happen if instead of being killed for being different, they were nurtured or simply not raised in such mentally unhealthy conditions. And that's all ignoring the fact that they put in death feedback. If everyone could defend themselves with their psychic abilities, any individual attempting to kill others would be quickly subdued. They allowed fear to become a cage for themselves instead of valuing progress and freedom.

>>157768979
death feedback is literally not made up and is just the reaction folks have to the death of someone in their own group. which is why the fiends are just people who dont belong in the group.

>>157768932
Islamists have bombs that can blow up small amounts of people and weak structures.
Cantus users have godlike mind powers that can warp reality itself, instantly killing indefintine numbers of people and destroying any structure, poisoning the food and water supplies for miles around, and mutating whole species into things far more dangerous that will upturn the entire ecosystem.
One is a nutter with a weapon, the other is representative of evolution itself and how it can wreck an entire planet.

>>157768896
>while the other side shows that even though they're in shitty circumstances, theyre just as shitty in heart as the folks abusing their power.
What, fighting for freedom makes you shitty? Imprisoning the queens for going on violent rampages was shitty? Using "cowardly" battle tactics was shitty? Oh, I know the story was attempting to tell me the queerats were just as bad, but I disagree. They only resorted to violence after being treated like shit for centuries.
>>157769037
Death feedback was genetically engineered into them. Everyone in real life has strong reactions to killing for the first time, and I'm sure there have been cases where people died of shock, but in SSY death feedback was something genetically engineered into humans. It's not as simple as "the group", because people couldn't defend themselves against outside, human attackers regardless of that persons origin. It was a major fuckup on the part of the scientists, and in my opinion it's the most wrong thing you can do to effectively remove your own mechanism for attack and defense. Better for everyone to be armed and be able to defend themselves than nobody be armed and be at the mercy of anyone who can kill them.

>>157768979
I agree that there's a point to be made that the village didn't try more alterative, peaceful means, but you're really underselling how dangerous a fiend is and how sure they had to be that none would ever appear. See >>157769239
There's a reason they resorted to such desperate measures in the first place.

>>157766083
Squealer was shit.

>>157769239
This day was always going to come though. Someday, weapons and technology are going to be so powerful that society as we know it, large amounts of people in a small space, won't be viable. But that just means that people have to spread out and give each other distance, and have smaller societies that rely largely on technology to make up for what they large masses of workers did in the past. That way many different types of societies and evolutions will form, humanity will not be destroyed but instead flourish and become much greater and inevitably much more resilient than ever before. The option of severely limiting freedom of action and though is just backing yourself into a dead end and hoping that it always works flawlessly. But someday, the system will slip up in the wrong way, and everyone is going to die. The PK users destroying ancient civilization, and the fiends attacking villages, was all a result of people opting for less freedom and more security. No defense system that relies on mass cooperation will ever work 100% perfectly, and eventually the flaws in the system will be exploited by the right person at the right time, and lead to the destruction of everyone. Clinging to the traditional ways of society of relying on mass cooperation and close contact of every person with one another will inevitably lead to demise. Maybe not for 100, 1000, 10000, or even 1000000 years, but when it does happen it will take everyone along with it. It's like cramping a bunch of people in a dry wooden building with candles and hoping it doesn't burn down. We're going to have to let go of our massive societies of cooperation if we want to survive.

>>157769239
perhaps cantus is what happens when a group of folks get technology far more advanced/dangerous than what other people have?
but i can also see the representation of evolution thing, in which case the show would more be about human cruelty to other species of animals, no?

>>157768932
I unironically agree with this statement. Islam will spread and spread and the non-islamic will be out-bred and then wiped out. Medina/Hindu Kush on a global scale. It's been happening in an outward circle since Islam started.

Nothing short of wiping Islam from the planet with horrific violence forever will stop this inevitable attrition.

>>157766426
>unknowingly
Not really. He was just calculating asshole and decided his clan has better chances with slave drivers than against Sqeeler.

Can someone explain to me what harmony school was about and why the girl was going to be killed for not graduating or whatever?

>>157769828
The board of education were paranoid faggots who killed off anyone showing the slightest signs of trouble integrating.

>>157769288
well, for me by just as bad rather than fighting over which side acted worse in the circumstances they were in, just as bad as in they both woudlve acted the same in the other's circumstances, as the show reminds us that both are human. and the societies of both are also both just based on different parts of human society, so i wouldnt say it matters which is worse when it comes to actually thinking about the show.

I figured the genetic engineering thing was just an excuse for being able to make it actually kill them, exaggerating it to make the point.

>>157769828
harmony school shows that we indoctrinate our youth and try to force everyone to fit in, and people who dont fit in can get crippled for life as a result, if the circumstances are bad enough surrounding them. so anything that would indicate you're not being properly indoctrinated or will be an outcast = killed.

>>157769993
I know what the shows creators intentions were, but while I understand what they intend to portray I disagree with their idea that "every side is equally bad, no one was right". Death of the author and all that.

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The psychics weren't the villains. Sympathizing with the rats is like sympathizing with neanderthals. The emergence of psionics was a jump forward in human evolution and the psychics were objectively superior people. They built a utopian society. Of course they had to kill off the non-evolved humans. The only fault of the psychics was mutating the humans into rats instead of just mercy-killing them outright.

>>157770499
The psychics didn't use PK to evolve, they allowed their fear of it's misuse to entrap them and prevent them form ever changing. Humans are those who evolve and continue to grow, using their technology to reach greater heights. The Queerats would have undoubtedly eventually reached a level of technology with equal power to PK, and it was this that the PK users feared. PK, cantus, nukes, it's all the same. If you allow yourself to become captive to fear, it will destroy you without ever needing to be used. But if you embrace it and become its master you will evolve to ever higher heights. Had the psychics never tried to inhibit the use of PK, they would likely be ascended beings traveling space with ease by the time the story takes place. The rats were a chance for things to start again and for humanity to once again evolve, in the form of the PK users raised as queerats.

The HUMANS that evolved CORRECTLY were the ones who won. What are you talking about.

>>157771874
They'll get wiped out sooner or later, you'll see.

>>157770499
Go to bed Magneto

>>157766083
Squealer is selfish and hypocrite though. At least the psychic government tried to keep peace. Squealer want to become a new god-emperor lording over his own people.

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>>157772380
>Squealer want to become a new god-emperor lording over his own people.
Do you have a single fact to back that up? Besides the hypothesizing the paranoid board of education came up with?

>>157772380
The government didn't want to "keep the peace", they wanted to keep the queerats under their tyrannical rule because they were afraid of the changes a free queerat society would bring. Yeah, technically that's "peace", but peace on it's own is worthless, it's what comes out of a certain state of the world that makes it worthwhile or not. The queerats would have recreated technology and rekindled it's advancement, and most likely achieved PK or raised humans with free usage of their own PK. The villages were a bunch of paranoid controlling fucks who were afraid of the risks. Instead of using the past as a lesson to build on, they became afraid of it and cowered in fear in a stagnate, dull, horrible society where humans became afraid of their own potential. Technology and evolution is not to be feared, but mastered.

>>157772884
Boku no Yori.

So was this the sequel to Elfen Lied?

>>157772884
Sekai no Pico

>>157767706
Squealers punishment was objectively wrong. It was cruel and unusual. They didn't need to torture him to survive.

>>157773059
None of this would have happened if the dumb fucking scientists hadn't added death feedback for fucks sake.

>>157768979
Cantus users are like glass cannons
Imagine a society where anyone can explode at will. All you need is ONE guy to get pissed off enough to use it and he can take out hundereds.

>>157772539
His action of using the people whose freedom he supposed to fight for as suicidal troop and treating the innocent colony(the one that try to help hiding Mamoru for example) like shit pretty much speak for himself. He also enslaved shitloads of other weak and peaceful colonies to be his soldiers and killed a lot of them in inter-colony wars. He tried to kill Saki despite her saving his life (he even tried to sell them out to Kikumaru and psychic government immediately after that). His words sound just but his action reveal his selfishness and lust for power. It will be similar to Animal farm scenario where the rebel leader ended up being an uglier parody of previous rulers. At least have someone with more integrity like Kikumaru to lead them.

>>157766083
Side story when? We basically just saw the story of this small town, one of many as far as we know, they even mention how they totally ignore the world outside Japan, how many of these societies might have formed, I demand a continuation!!

>>157773118
gee that's why it was designed after bonobos to avoid conflict through sexual intercourse and all unstable loners are shunned

>>157766083
It's a fucking rat, ugly, hairless rat. And so are his followers.

Ugly on the outside = ugly in the inside.

>>157773118
The same can be said for nukes, and I still think people should be allowed to have them. The solution is not to have so many people so close together, as technology progresses societies with a lot of people very close to each other become inviable. Besides, I'd rather risk having to defend against some guy who has nukes with my own nukes than be selectively killed off by a government that I can't fight. Anyone can buy a gun too, that doesn't mean people shouldn't be allowed to. If people are bombs, don't have them so close to each other. Instead of massive societies of cooperation, people will just have to split off into smaller groups, more like families and close friends. Well, ignoring that, there are so many things they could have done differently to prevent that besides killing their own young people.

>>157773218
He was aggressive, but he needed to be for the sake of freedom. It was never clarified, but I think his troops willingly chose to sacrifice their lives for the cause. That's very different from eliminating people you're afraid of against their will. And he never treated anyone badly who didn't first try to attack or kill his own colony and people, which is more than can be said for the villages. Did he make sacrifices during the war? Yes, but not only did the queerats know that they would die in the war, they willingly accepted it. They never turned on him, which means they trusted him regardless of their own personal fate.

>>157773388
False Equivalence, not everyone carries a fucking nuke on them. It's regulated to consensus bodies.

Individuals are much harder to control and regulate, and when they can nuke a bunch of people personally safety precautions are needed.

>>157773612
Like it or not, a time is coming when individuals will be impossible to control. This doesn't mean people have to die on a large scale, but if people want to survive, the size and closeness of societies is going to have to change before it's too late. People will have to live in small groups composed of close, trusted friends, and they will have to live physically isolated from any other society, at least to the point that it is harder for an outburst to wipe people out on a massive scale. Of course, many people won't want to do this, so they'll instead opt for tighter control, and killing potentially dangerous people immediately. But if even one thing goes wrong it will all go up in flames. When I said "I still think people should be allowed to have them", I wasn't referring to rulers and countries. I was referring to individuals. I value freedom over safety, and while I understand that some death is unavoidable, I see a big difference between choosing to fight and die to protect my freedom, and killing off others to maintain control. I think our values are incompatible, because you do not seem to think people should be allowed to be dangerous.

>>157773388
>I think people should be allowed to have nukes
stopped reading there. A nuke and a gun are not the same thing. And guns can be regulated. Cantus can't.

>>157773508
In the third arc he started wars with many small colonies that just want to be left alone for petty or outright bullshit excuses (hench Kikumaru's enmity against him) and kill many if not all adult members of those colonies. He then take those colonies' infants as per queerat's practice and raised them to be his loyal soldiers/slaves. While I don't argue that many queerat are sympathize to his cause but the soldiers probably never knew better because they were brainwashed since their infancy.

>>157773795
It was disappointing for me to see a power that would finally make individuals autonomous controlled and turned against them anyway.

>>157766083

Honestly, I'd prefer to side the beautiful demigods instead of the horrible rat-monsters. The psychic beautiful people are closer to the true inheritors of the human spirit than the untermensch are.

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>>157767415
>Calling others cowards while siding with the biggest coward in the show

>>157767966
>But I still can't help being pissed off that he lost.
Then congrats you missed the point like all Squealerfags
>>157769288
That's your code of efforts then, the show pretty much laid it on thick that Squealer's intentions wasn't as noble as you're trying to paint it as and any sort of sympathetic for his cause should have been lost the moment he turned against his own kind for not following him.
>>157766426
There were no villains in this show retard
>>157769767
You mean Kiromaru didn't trust the shitbag who destroyed colonies and took queens hostages for his own need? Hell if anything his decision saved the Queerats from being extinct.