BLAME!

>>157591757
Silicon life must die

>>157591757
Yes? He's literally programmed to wipe out silicon life forms

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FUCK SILICON LIFE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocW3fBqPQkU

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>>157591757
Silicon life attacks human indiscriminately, they deserved to to driven to extinction.

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>>157592791
BECOME AS GODS

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>Cibo was a robot all along
What? I thought her new body was stolen from a human clone factory.

>>157593175
Her old body was pretty much all robotic too.

>>157593175
she's trans-human

silicone life are post-human and maybe some special safeguards like Sanakan fall into that category

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I've made a startling revelation

>>157593266
>>157593282
But as far I know she was a normal human with some enhancements, like those USB-like ports than even Killy has. Her last incarnation was the only one that was complete a complete robot.

>>157593175
Cibo was born human, she just transferred bodies so many times it's essentially unknowable. Also in the manga she stole her body from the clone factory in The Capitol whereas in the movie she had a machine make her a new better one.

>>157593420
I assumed you were talking about the movie from that character sheet. When Killy dug her out, pretty sure there were no organic parts.

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>>157593602
Oh, I know, but aside the movie, in the manga she is represented with a more robotic body.

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>>157593730
Who was she, again?

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ignore all silly cone threads, destroy all silly cone posters

>>157593348
Who is Yanda supposed to be?

>>157593175
Everyone in BLAME! is human to some degree. AIs like safeguards and the governing agency are based on their human creators. Silicon Lifeforms are human criminals who went full retard with augs long ago, and have since become so different that the NetSphere no longer recognizes them as the same species.

It's been mentioned several times in the manga that, due to the sheer amount of time and technofuckery involved in the BLAME! world, even humans (as far as we can recognize them) have branched off into several species. The Bio Electric Corporation that Cibo is from are humans capable of uploading themselves to backup data and re-downloading into new bodies (evidenced by the fact that Killy scans Cibo differently from Silicon Life). The closest thing to vanilla humans in BLAME! are probably the Electro-Fishers, although they do have that ritual where they can drain some kind of organic data-gunk from the bodies of their dead.

When transhuman shit comes into play, the concept of humanity becomes arbitrary anyway. The only thing that really distinguishes a human in BLAME! is if the NetSphere recognizes you as one.

>>157594427
Seu

>>157594328
Apparently to Killy what Iko is to Dhomo. Who knows where she fucked off to.

>>157594419
That knight guy was so badass, it was pretty sad to see what happened to him.

>>157593602
>>>157593420
>I assumed you were talking about the movie from that character sheet. When Killy dug her out, pretty sure there were no organic parts.
They talk about communication in the eyes. In the manga with the suit like killys and the fart ghost they meet Killy and they are freaking out how they cannot make or pick up any communication from Killys eyes. Plus there must be some sort of id Killy can pick up by looking at eyes since he is able to tell human and silicon life apart. Her eyes were working in the movie so that could tell her origin. Actually, origin is the better word.

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>>157593175
>Netflix movie out
>Still no hope of doujins
>Forever without BLAME porn by raita

>>157594657
How is it sad? He got his memories back AND got to live with his waifu forever.

>>157594642
So she's directly in contact with The Authority? Did the Authority even exist at this point, or is the idea that Killy is an immortal super safeguard bolted on by Nihei afterwards?

>>157594921
Vol 1 is largely considered one-shot/ pilot material, which is why the tone is so different. Just think of it as Nihei playing around with the setting before finally settling on a direction to take the manga.

>>157592791
Then why did he saved that faggot at the end of the chapter

>>157594921
More likely a human that Killy allied with, and may have had contact with the Authority.

I think an actual Authority figure would have noticed that Killy's body was malfunctioning before Sanakan restored him.

>>157595054
Because he fulfilled his original mission of finding a human with the NTG. Before he completed it, he cannot take any chance or he risked what happened in volume 1 again. Eliminate all those that would prevent a human with NTG to connect with the Net Sphere, no exceptions. And now that he completed that mission, he is to maintain law and order within The City, which also means protecting Silicon Life as well.

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>silicones recognize best girl

>>157595114
Actually, scratch that. He spoke with the Authority a few times before his encounter with Sanakan and they never seemed to concerned that Killy wasn't at peak functionality

>>157595000
While you're right, Dog Girl matters more than all the other anomalies in volume 1. She recurs four times, each in very short and cryptic ways. Unlike the sting rays, insectoid mutants, and the monster child, she keeps coming back very deliberately.

>>157595304
Probably because they can't do anything about it and they know he'll get the job done, one way or another.

>>157591757
Yes

>>157594762
yeah but you can't say all the time she was turned retarded playing dark souls where particularly enjoyable

>>157595363
What are the instances of her reappearing?

>>157593348
>best girl is best girl
As expected of the master

>>157595405
Time is convoluted in Toha Heavy Industries.

>>157595304
>>157595372
Maybe they also forgot, since it's been an ungodly long time. The databases aren't talking to each other anymore, so one branch doesn't know HQ is sending their most operator death machine and to check for defects upon receipt.

>>157595304
Killy is the Apex of the city. There's no one greater.

>>157595405
Time doesn't real in the gravity furnace exclusion zone, he could've been 10 billion years snuggling with her too.

>>157595420
Is it weird to see your daughter being raised next door by your ex?

I need to reread BLAME! sometime and pay more attention

>>157595471
He got his ass handed to him a number of times, sometimes by regular humans.

>>157595528
That's not best girl

>>157595555
quads speak.

>>157594695
Killy can scan people's genetic code by looking at their eyes. This is how he can tell if someone is a silicon creature, a human, a net terminal gene holder, or a safeguard.

>>157593348
>Asagi and Torako = Cibo and Sanakan
That... makes a lot more sense than I thought.

>>157595517
>Time doesn't real in the gravity furnace exclusion zone, he could've been 10 billion years snuggling with her too.

>I guess so just phase the fuck out of existence is just a tad hard to fully comprehend

>>157595418
Beginning of volume 9: Killy sees her in his dream.
Artbook page 84: "But, if that is so, who is the woman with the dog...?"
Artbook page 84-b: "When Killy was revived after being annihilated by the Level 9, he had a dream sequence before he was restarted. LOG.2/Memory of earth. In that dream, the woman and the dog were mostly symbolic. I think this obviously has some relevance to Dhomochevsky and Iko's creation scene. The woman is Iko and the dog corresponds to the coelacanth. ... In all the ways Killy is "born," that woman, just like Iko, is supporting him along with her dog."
Blame Gakuen: I don't remember which chapter, but she's in it.

>>157594755
>raita porn
meh

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>>157593348
One more to satisfy my autism

>>157595845
Yeah, vol1 chapters can be really early days of Killy. He even doesn't know the government agency then. Or, Nihei didn't hit upon the idea then.

Somebody post timescales. Like, the elevator ride was over 100 years, right?

>>157596241
80 years, as I recall.

>>157595550
No way, he only was defeated by other high-level safeguards. I don't even remember him being beaten by silicon creatures.

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>>157596280
>beaten up AND bullied

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>>157596280
If it weren't for Cibo, he was pretty much defeated. They were even laughing at him.

>>157596390
Yeah, and then those were BTFO by some kid.

>>157596418
Well, fair enough. Those creatures that could reflect the GBE shots were OP as fuck, though.

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>>157596280
Ivy and Maeve had them on the ropes until Seu and Mensab showed up

>>157596517
Wasn't "some kid", it was a unique monstrosity with bullshit regenerative powers.

>>157596568
Well, it was a kid. I didn't say it was a human kid.

>>157596568
It was probably a high-level Safeguard in disguise, like Sanakan in the electro-fisher village.

When Nihei started the series, it was considered one shot series for a year. There's no rigid setting or overall plot. Government agency and exterminators are not separated. After a year, they decided to develop Blame! into a long term series. Around that time, Cibo was introduced and Government agency became a good guy.

>>157596795
>lying in public

We need more Sanakan worshipping.

How many times Killy lost his right arm? How many times Cibo died? How many years passed since the first chapter?

>>157596390
>>157596418
To be fair, that was early on before he remember he wasn't a normal human and couldn't understand all the info that was flashing in his eyes.

>>157596661
I would like to think that it was something else besides Safeguard or Silicon Life. That with The City so big, there is bound to be something that had evolved to thrive in it and that was one of many that did.

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>>157597047
Sanakan gets the job done!

>>157597092
>How many years passed since the first chapter
I'm on chapter 51, and in the Dorchevsky? arc alone I think we've lost 500+ years

>>157597190
The only thing I thought while she killed half of the village was please step on me too!

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>>157597047
She's scary and cute at the same time!

>>157597184
Agreed.

To add to your point: the child appears, visibly, to be fully human; even as it killed the soldiers/bandits. No Silicon or Safeguard in the entire series can use their strength while appearing as a human. Sanakan is the only one of either who is shown to even have the capability of looking like a human, and she changes out of that form before fighting.

>>157597047
Just finished the manga. So does she die at the end after killy btfos the safeguard boss?

>>157597184
>>157597514
Maybe a mutated human like those asexual three-eyed humans tribe that Killy met before going to the City.

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>>157597047
>heard you had Net Terminal Genes you little shit
>now get on the bed

>>157597599
Yes

You know, it's kinda weird knowing Cibo has a gentle and friendly personality even when she is a sociopath scientist.

>>157596057
maybe he just forgets shit as time goes by

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>>157595550
>>157596390
>>157596418
That was only before he'd reactivated his safeguard functions, after he did that during the first debacle with Sanakan there was an immediately noticeable and vast improvement in virtually every parameter. Before that he was effectively little more than an average man who just happened to be insanely tough and had a fuckstrong gun and balls of steel, he even had to drug himself regularly to help recover his injuries. Afterwards he gradually shifts back into a nigh-immortal unstoppable death machine tanking nuclear explosions to the face, holding his own completely whenever he was alone against whatever mechanical abomination came his way, and even once when he lost his GBE he launched a heavily armed one man assault against the most powerful silicon organization of the level, slaughtered one of their top members and critically injured another. If not because of his physical abilities or his equipment, Killy is still one of the most dangerous safeguards ever created by virtue of sheer unstoppability. Nothing they've ever tried on him has worked, and they've tried pretty much everything like three times.

>>157597184
Nah, pretty sure it was a safeguard since he attacked the village with the safeguard horde next chapter before getting btfo.

>>157598844
>Killy is still one of the most dangerous safeguards ever created
Stop.

>>157598844
I liked how he gradually became stronger. First he was no different than a normal human, just with a very powerful gun. Then, after her first encounter with Sanakan, he became more stronger and faster than before, and he could use his GBE more efficiently. Then, when he was obliterated and lost 60% of his body, he practically became a kill machine, with all his functions at maximum.
I think his peak was his fight against the Level 10 Safeguard, when he activated those weird eyes and he could nullify every force shield the Safeguard put on him.

>>157598937
Why

>>157599278
He's not a Safeguard. Verifiable across almost every work in which Blame has been presented.

>>157599336
Not that anon, but yeah, he was one.

>>157598920
And he helped Killy too

>>157599336
Kind of a hard sell especially now in the movie when Sanakan directly states he stole a safeguard body. You'll need to start shouting anime-only-fag all the time.

>>157599486
Sanakan doesn't understand all that is going on, she's (probably) the protag from Noise who is under contract with the Safeguard from before it went wacko. She sees what he has access to and thinks he must be Safeguard when his canon is that he's a predecessor to the Safeguard, probably a higher spec prototype sort that cost more to make than the final models except maybe the level 10.

>>157591757
Part of Killy's hardcoded mission is to destroy Silicon life before they can interfere. Once he completes his mission, he can save QT Silicon life like P-Cell 2.0 all he wants.

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>>157599746
>she's (probably) the protag from Noise who is under contract with the Safeguard
Musubi would never help the Safeguard!

>>157599486
In the manga too sanakan says he's a safeguard, then Domo says they are a type of pre-safeguards or something like that

>>157599854
Wasn't it the authority rep who said that before he got shanked in virtual space?

>>157599390
You have to separate "The Safeguard" as an organization from "The Safeguard" as a type of organism. Killy does not obey the laws of the Safeguard as an organization because he's not part of them and technically never was one because they were formed after his creation. Killy responds directly to the Netsphere Authority which if it weren't for the Safeguard being in full lockdown autistic screeching mode the Authority would actually be in charge of them too. But as it is, the Authority is in conflict with the Safeguard and understands that Killy is pretty much their only hope of getting the Safeguard back under control because Killy's mission pretty much kills every bird with one stone as a human with netsphere access could pretty much stop every major problem in Blame!.

As far as his physical body, Killy is technically the same type of organism as the Safeguard. It would be more accurate to say that the Safeguard are based on Killy though. It's unclear if there ever were others like Killy before the Safeguard became a thing though but I imagine there would be, not sure what would have happened to them obviously.

>>157599974
>full lockdown autistic screeching mode
kek

What happened to Sanakan between toha heavy industries and her reappearance after Domo's arc

>>157599819
Kinda related but I love Sanakan's design after she renegotiates her contract and gets to work for the Netsphere Authority instead of the Safeguard.

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>>157599819
It's not like her word would make a difference.

>>157599390
霧亥？・第1項
人間だが、かなり高度にサイボーグ化されている。ほとんど確実に不老不死。すでに１０００年以上は生きている可能性が高い。が、その自覚というか 「記憶」が、多分、ない。相当な過去、まだ、もしかしたらネットスフィアが完全に機能している時代に、警察官的な仕事をしていたのかもしれない。とにか く、後に「種族」化して「珪素生物」となる「人間が生物的な体を捨てた」犯罪者達や、ネットワークを介在して、複数の「体」を使用する者達から、ひどく恨 みを買うほどに対立していたようだ。

>>157599486
ほう？そうかい？二次創作とは正準のものか？ならば、ＢＬＡＭＥ！ＧＡＫＵＥＮも正準のものだな？それなら、霧亥は本当に１６歳の男子学生だろうと思う？
ほう？そうかい？あなた、日本語をわからない人？然らば黙れ。くたばれ

>>157599956
Maybe, now I'm not sure

>>157599974
Killy is just an old safeguard that tends to going rogue from time to time, but he still carries his original mission.
The first bunch of safeguards were based on humans, but after the cataclysm and the genocide, the next ones were based on silicon creatures. That's all.

the netflix anime movie is pretty good, animation is just a little choppy at times but I don't know how much of that is streaming

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>>157599956
>>157600209
「統治局。。。１つ聞きたい事があるんだけど」

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>>157600292
「霧亥は本当にセーフガードなの？」
「。。。」

>>157600235
I'm still of the opinion that none of Nihei's works will ever be animated in a way that does them justice because it just wouldn't be profitable and that is why all we get is cel shaded CGI stuff overlaid on the remarkable sometimes hand drawn backgrounds. I don't like cel shaded CGI or most CGI in general outside of some really top notch shit but it's extra jarring next to Nihei level backgrounds.

I dunno, any millionaires wanna fund a proper Blame! animation?

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>>157600327
「キリイは。。。違う。。。セーフガード以前のシステム。。。密使ーーー」

さあ、なんだ？文句あるかい？

>>157600327
>>157600407
Wow you skipped the best page.

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Reminder that Nihei was going to be the art director of a new Neuromancer movie that was cancelled some years ago.

http://www.slashfilm.com/concept-art-for-vincenzo-natalis-unmade-neuromancer-it-and-predator-movies

I really liked how effay Cibo was in the chapters before she turns into Level 9.

>>157600495
>Nihei was going to direct a Neuromancer movie
FUCK! Why didn't this ever get made? It would've been fucking GOAT

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>>157600498
Everybody knows Cibo is /fa/ as fuck.

>>157600498
Cibo is the ultimate idol for any aspiring goofninja

>>157600568
Yea but I loved her jacket outfit that gave her a skirt, so effay and so sexy.
Can someone post the cibo comparison image?

>>157600456
まあ関係ないページなのだからね

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>>157600617
no;^)

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>>157600544
I remember reading there were lack of funds, besides some kind of legal battle about the rights of the novel, so the project was put on developer hell several times until they scrapped the project entirely when investors lost interest.

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>>157600625
Well a ching chong and nip noug to you too buddy.

>>157600767
Where in the world did you get that resolution?

>>157600805
Seconded

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>>157600617
This?

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>>157600805
>>157600824
>go to the twitter
>select the pic
>open in a new window
>put :orig at the end of the URL
>save as a pic without the -orig
>profit

>>157600825
Isn't the fifth form just another human that was in the rescue capsule from the last chapters?
(with ambiguity, whether it is the character Killy talks to, or another person entirely)

>>157600955
Fucking damn it; I was/have been using :large.

>>157600963
Yeah, that's Mori, but a lot of people think she is Cibo or Sanakan.

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>>157600568
But look at Sanakan's edgy late 90s coat.

>>157601049
Governing Authority FBI Agent Sanakan is the best.

>>157600963
>>157601048
It's probably some sort of amalgamation as it is pieced together from what the governors could salvage and had been overwritten multiple times. But yeah I figured it was at least partly Mori and very little of anyone else.

>>157600976
>:large
Sometimes :large and :orig are the same resolution, but I think it depends of the pic. Anyway, :orig is the pic as how originally was uploaded, so always go for that.

>>157601082
Alright, cool. Thank you!

>>157600825
that doesnt have all her outfits

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>>157601072
She's thinking like, woah, I'm Keanu Reeves.

>>157600825

You forgot about the lvl 9 Safeguard chibicibo.

>>157601153
>Keanu as Killy
>Keanu(female) as Sanakan
Would watch desu

>>157601159
And the real original Cibo.

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>>157601187
That's this.

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>>157601119
>>157601159
I think this pic is better.

>>157601187
Yeah that shot of still-scientist Cibo is one my favorites in the whole manga.

>>157601205
But original Cibo looked like a dyke.

>>157601229
no u

>>157601229
Not that Cibo, I mean that two-pager shot overlooking the Capitol.

>>157601185
Wow you know I literally explained Blame! to my friend who asked me about it because of Netflix the other night as "walking to Jupiter starring sad Keanu Reeves".

>>157601259
Who? I remember the one from the flashback was her original body.

>>157601259
That is original Cibo.

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>>157601357
>>157601341
No you autists I mean that page is one of my favorites for art, not that dyke-looking Cibo is my favorite. "It's been a while Mr President" Cibo is my favorite.

>>157601380
But that's her second body.

>>157601254
>black hair
>short hair
>horse-like face
>no tits
>no ass

Nah man, even Cibo knew her original body was ugly, that's the reason she stole the body of a blonde supermodel.

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>>157601380
>No you autists I mean that page is one of my favorites for art ... "It's been a while Mr President" Cibo is my favorite.
But there is no two-page spread of either of them in the capitol.

>>157601582
Is it ever explained what all that gear she has on is?

>>157601661

Space magic.

Blame! in Hollywood.

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you wouldn't a robot

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>>157601710
I want to punish this safeguard consensually

>>157601661
Some kind of supercomputer because he managed to hack all the enemies and the boss with it.

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>>157601661
It's just gear that she can use to fuck over the President and the rest in there. She brings it specifically for that purpose, and immediately doesn't have any of it after the end of that scene.

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>>157600825
This pic lacking these versions of Cibo.

What's your favorite scene from the manga? mine is when Killy stares off into the vastness of the jupiter room and Mori can only detect the ground.
Anyone have the wallpaper version of that scene?

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>>157602289
Probably has to be the tower shield knights appearing. Little significance story wise as they immediately get jobbed but man, did they make an impression.

>>157602705
Baddest looking motherfuckers in the while manga.

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>>157602705
They're also my favourite; that's my favourite page. I think that's what got me into Blame, actually.

>they immediately get jobbed
No, they don't. They deflect Sanakan's GBE, and manage to kill Sanakan. That's a ridiculous feat, in the grand scheme of the manga.

>>157602804

In all honesty, Sanakan is a pretty bad Safeguard compared to Killy.

>>157602862
Killy is not a Safeguard.

>>157602862
Well she did beat him when Killy was in his powered-down amnesiac state, I guess that's nothing to scoff at considering it's killy we're talking about.

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>>157602895

Can someone answer me, When does NetSphere Engineer take place? and was the guy a special safeguard or something? Context please.

>>157591757
well he was doing nothing but observing nothingness and he probably did it for thousands of years

>>157602927
After Blame, but before Blame!². It was the time humans were still struggle against silicon life and builders. Probably the Authority recruited more people to kill all menace and help the few humans that survived.

>>157602919
I think someone explained it. sanakan thought he was a safeguard and tried to register him as a safeguard. but he in reality he is an agent of the governing agency

>>157602919
失礼な事を言うもんじゃない
雑種

>>157602927
After Killy has succeeded. There is no specific context. Nihei has never said who or what the Engineer was.

>>157603009
probably they managed to upload many of the backed up humans back to the base reality

>>157602927
he was carrying a pendant which probably had ntg genes

The real question I have is; did Cibo connecting to Killy's brain trigger Sanakan's character change in the last part of the manga? Cibo was still in Sanakan's body when she connected to Killy right?

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>>157602289
Definitely this chapter. This was the culmination of the Dhomochevsky arc, and all the subplots that developed there. But I specially liked this scene, the face Davinelulinvega made when he knew he was living his last moments, how he deeply regretted not having access and even begged the Governors to enter the Netsphere. But it was meaningless, anyway, because the connection ended and he was already a corpse in the real world, leaving him behind with a digital body that vanished few moments after.

>>157599974

He's "Safeguard" from the era when Safeguard was not called Safeguard yet. Explains why Safeguard recognize him as an unregistered Safeguard, why the basic language within him is Safeguard's and why he can access the protected vaults and weaponry of the Safeguard.

And him being a relative to Safeguards also explains why he has GBE and why he's tough as nails in the first place.

>>157598844

>Nothing they've ever tried on him has worked, and they've tried pretty much everything like three times.

He can't be killed but several Safeguard, couple of Silicon Creatures and few various creatures have beaten him. Sanakan is stronger than Killy thanks to her having way more cool abilities than he does, the two times they fight each other Killy "wins" because of outside interference, both times he was about to get his head disappear in a GBE shot from Sanakan. Not to mention Lvl 9 which just brushed off his GBE shots and pulverized the area effortlessly, plus it says in Nihei's own notes how the Lvl 9 is THE strongest being in the world of Blame!

But thats why it makes sense for him to have a partner in Cibo, who can mitigate his weaknesses. A lot of powerful characters work in pairs in Blame!, usually in a "this guy is the frontline fighter, this guy is the hacker/mage in the background"-way. Maeve and Ivy and Seu and Mensab the best examples, both had the strong melee fighters and then the tech-wieldy "mages" in the back, doing shit like magnetic bonds and teleportation.

>>157603558

According to Nihei's notes, Davine is a she. The male avatar you see in the river before Netsphere is Seu, because its Seu's genetic information they're using to access it.

And when Davine gets shot in her face, Seu avatar reappearing and touching the Netsphere is not Davine, its Cibo who hacked and stole the ID for herself. Her obsession overcame her and she just couldn't help but use the opportunity to see what the Netsphere was like. And as a result she accidentally ruined everything for both her and Killy.

>>157603583
>from the era when Safeguard was not called Safeguard
No. He is 'from' a system prior to and separate from the Safeguard. No matter how you rearrange the words, it is always the truth.

>>157603583
Killy is from a system that predates the safeguard anon. He's not a prototype. He's not a stolen body. He's literally lost technology that no one has any records of except for the Authority who only know him as something that came before.

Why exactly doesn't Killy just fullpower people like he did with the first class exterminator more often? Sanakan wouldnt have stood a chance against his full power GBE shot had hhe used it.

>>157603610
>Davine is a she
He, she, xhe, it, I don't care, they are all silicon scum to me.

>is not Davine, its Cibo
Why what? But that doesn't make sense. Cibo was already connected to another line, and why the Governor talked about Davine and not about Cibo when the avatar disappeared?

>>157595471
Exterminator first class is stronger. It takes killy and sanakan to defeat it.

Also cibo when she downloaded the level 9 safeguard data along with the net terminal genes was stronger, before she went into incubating mode and became like a helpless child.

>>157600235
The choppy animation was intentional, according to some anons that can read moon. Not really a fan of it myself, would have preferred everything to just be smooth. Some of the scenes look like they dropped down to 20fps and it looks terrible.

>>157603610
>And when Davine gets shot in her face, Seu avatar reappearing and touching the Netsphere is not Davine, its Cibo who hacked and stole the ID for herself. Her obsession overcame her and she just couldn't help but use the opportunity to see what the Netsphere was like. And as a result she accidentally ruined everything for both her and Killy.
And people give *me* shit about headcanon.

In the exact same notes, Nihei says that Davinel was the one who wanted the Level 9. Davinel did not fully die until she touched the thing and got the data. Did you forget how slowed-down time can be in the Net space? Cibo spent like minutes in cyberspace when her body was technically gone in like volume 4, as I recall. The same thing applies here. The Level 9 downloaded into Cibo's body because Davinel was no longer there/alive to receive the information, not because she stole Davinel's body or whatever shit.

>>157603616

If you read Nihei's notes:

>"Ages ago, when the Netsphere was completely functional, he might have had some kind of police officer job."

He already pretty much did what the original "Safeguard" (before Safeguard was a thing) did. Then add how Nihei himself said he won't get into details of the age when there was wars within the Netsphere itself and soldiers started getting enhancements that turned them superhuman. Only that eventually in that war those who emerged victorious became the powers that exist within the City. That also means Safeguard.

So because we see several times how Killy can interact with Safeguard tech without getting shot to pieces by its defence mechanisms, his cybernetic enhancements come from the same basis that Safeguard eventually came from. So in a way Killy is like Safeguard's ancestor, or a distant cousin. At one point there was an enhanced entity much like Killy, they had the same basic language within them and they used the same weaponry. And that colleague of his eventually formed the Safeguard somehow.

Its the only reason why Safeguard mistakes Killy for one of their own at first, why Killy's system is similar to Safeguards' and why Killy can access Safeguard resources and pass through their doors no problem. Silicon Creatures stole Safeguard technology and have the same basic language but over time their language changed from that of the original Safeguard, which is why they get their heads blasted to shit if they try to enter Safeguard vaults before hacking them first.

Otherwise the similarities end there. Killy was clearly human once and then was put into a more durable body, Safeguards like Sanakan, Dhomo and Iko started as AI's in robot bodies.

>>157602289
When Killy shoots the exterminator first class just as it has is about to eat the net terminal genes and you see the shot reflected in sanakan' eyes and the initial shot followed by the resulting shockwave .

That page is SO fucking kino.
Everything is right about it. Such great visual ideas

>>157603610
>According to Nihei's notes, Davine is a she.
she's also wearing a girl's uniform in blame gakuen
the second part of your post is completely wrong though

>>157603967
"If you read his notes" - who do you think is translating them all the time?

>Nihei himself said he won't get into details of the age when there was wars within the Netsphere itself and soldiers started getting enhancements that turned them superhuman. Only that eventually in that war those who emerged victorious became the powers that exist within the City. That also means Safeguard.
>Silicon Creatures stole Safeguard technology and have the same basic language but over time their language changed
So you didn't read NOiSE, got it

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>>157603972

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>>157604118

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>>157604133
So fucking kino

don't you dare post it
I swear to fuck
you know that I don't want to be reminded about it

>>157604023

>So you didn't read NOiSE, got it

From the notes on NOiSE:

>["NOiSE" Explanation 1]
This is about why the world outside the Netsphere was in such a bad state.
It raises the question, "Why the chaos?"
Hypothetically, one can jack-in to another imitation body (Which is what the "NOiSE" cult can do). Before that knowledge became general it was used for military affairs.
If immortal, maintenance capable "Imitation Soldiers" could be created, they would win over any other kind of soldier.
It would absolutely be used to create an army.
Naturally, any opposing forces would also be doing the same thing.
And so there could be a great electronic battle.
>I can't imagine or predict what will go down after that, but somehow the Net World will become a festering wilderness and chaos would ensue - wouldn't it?

NOiSE takes place shortly before things start going to shit, and the epilogue is when shit has long since gone to shit.

Honestly wouldn't mind if Nihei would make NOiSE 2 and have an entire story on the war within the human society and within the Netsphere. The end resulting in Netsphere malfunctioning and City beginning its chaotic expansion.

>>157604118
>>157604133
I don't remember how many times I've read blame, but I've always assumes that that thing was just a strange looking silicone. Why was it trying to eat the sphere anyway?

>>157604163
That has nothing to do with language or why the Silicon are not recognized as Safeguard.

Further, that isn't relevant to your extrapolation about Killy. He's not a soldier. He's a police officer.

>>157604313
To reclaim/destroy the stolen Net access material that is inside of it.

>>157604313

Its an orb with net genes within it, mixed in with illegal genes. And wherever is the possibility of unauthorized Netsphere activity, theres the Safeguard.

I do like the idea how Exterminator Lvl 3s are just dolls, Lvl 2 are giant dolls with monk garbs and Lvl 1 look like saintly dolls. Really cool visual detail.

>>157604346

Killy got his enhancements from a mysterious faction by mysterious means during a mysterious time. What is the mysterious era Nihei hasn't detailed at all? The era right after NOiSE, when different factions raised immortal soldiers with the same abilities Killy and many other characters of the City have. So given what Killy can do right now, its not a hard stretch to think whoever gave him the new body copied a lot of what made the other soldiers already powerful, then added a lot of custom extra on top of that. But the framework was initially the same, which is why his tech is somewhat similar to the future Safeguard.

He's like Mad Max in a lot of ways. Used to be part of special cop unit, now an ex-cop hero of the wastes. He might confront factions formed by other ex-cops of the same unit and thus face enemies with similar training in his travels.

Anyone else completely lost or losing interest trying to decipher what the fuck is going on in some pages? The art is bad but I'm not talking One Piece type of bad, but in "jesus what am I looking at" bad.

Characters are sorta fine but I can't tell for the life of me what is going on in the back grounds some time.

>>157604532

You are pretty young for what I can tell, so just finish the manga and in like ten years return to it for another re-read. Alot of shit happens and there is some vague explanation that you may or may not understand, hell, it took me two reads and several thread on Blame! to understand some of the questions where the reader has to make sense by himself on how and why it end up that way.

>>157604510
Except the Safeguard already exist during the NOISE era, Killy is suppose to be before that even.

>>157604510
>Killy got his enhancements from a mysterious faction by mysterious means during a mysterious time.
No. He got his stuff before the Safeguard existed. At all. The Safeguard already exist in NOiSE. He was a secret agent with special privileges before the disaster; it's not unthinkable that he simply had enhancements installed as a part of his work. This would be why his gear is prototypal and supersedes Safeguard authority. He has never "gotten a new body"; anything insinuated in that direction is the fault of translations. You will not find anything that says he changed bodies, anywhere. All of the bodyswap crap is taken from one single line, which is given as
>However, there's no doubt that the body Killy has now is not "the same body" he was born with.
Except that's not what the line really reads.
>だが、今の霧亥の身体が、その最初に生まれた「そのもの」ではないのも、ほとんど間違 いない。
It doesn't address whether he is or isn't in a given body or not; it says that his body is (most likely) not the same thing that it was when he was born. Referring, almost certainly, to his extensive cyborg enhancements. The sentence would make sense even if the events of the manga never happened and all that had transpired was his receiving cybernetic modification.

>>157605026

>The Safeguard already exist in NOiSE.

Eh, good point. But just further proves that he's probably one of the ancestors of the Safeguard system, or the same agency that created him was somehow involved in the creation of Safeguard. Like the "HAL" mentioned in the notes simply taking that agency's ideas and running them for his own, since clearly GBEs are the most powerful form of weaponry in that universe.

And I didn't say he switched bodies, I said he was turned to what he is in Blame! which far exceeds human capabilities, tough to call him "human" anymore in terms of biology or physical capabilities. Although humanity at that point is such a vague concept anyway, Cibo is even less "human" than Killy thanks to her habit of switching bodies like old socks.

>>157605140
>he's probably one of the ancestors of the Safeguard system
He precedes it, yes. But it's not straight to the extent that many people like to portray it, nor is it a direct line of precedent. He's just Some Guy who's got metal stuff stuck to him. My justification for why his prototype stuff is stronger is that it's like a concept car, or a proof of concept. There's no intention for reproduction or cost consideration for the thing itself, it's simply as advanced as possible to display the nature of advancement. In that way, it is an ancestral design related to the Safeguard system, but does not serve in a direct line of precedence.

>I didn't say he switched bodies
Then what are we debating? Are we just talking? That's odd.

>>157605054
what is that

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>>157605344

> In that way, it is an ancestral design related to the Safeguard system, but does not serve in a direct line of precedence.

True, but him being somehow related to them has to be there, or otherwise a lot of the plot points would not make sense, or would require a lot of overly convoluted reasons for them to work, making Nihei fuck up in storywriting.

As advanced and unkillable as he is, you can clearly see Sanakan is a walking "what if Killy was a newer model", she generally wins him in a duel as well, thanks to her different abilities. Takes more than one person to take down Sanakan.

Makes me think if Nihei is a fan of Terminator movies as well. Since he is a big westaboo, and T-800 had this sort of rivalry with T-1000 and T-X in the films. Less advanced than his rivals but wins over them through sheer perseverance.

Made scenes like Cibo's stolen body being stolen back much more like "Oh shit!"-moments when you know how big a threat Sanakan is, and how Killy can't necessarily beat her in a fair fight.

>>157605569
Even if she is stronger (I don't agree there), Killy is literally immortal. He just has to keep getting back up. Maybe it takes time, maybe it costs whatever, but he will not die, and he will eventually win through attrition.
>復元したのだろうか・・・・・・？もしそうなら、まさに、不死身・・・・・・？

Also, Sanakan's weaponry is not as powerful. Her GBE is described in an bizarre, esoteric way that sums up as 'weaker weapon'. Killy's GBE is explicitly described as the strongest weapon in existence.

I see there are people here that know their shit, so I want to ask, what was the deal with Alternate Cibo? I mean, she never met Killy in her timeline, but she had her second body, besides how the fuck she managed to enter Toha Industries of the City was physically isolated from that place? Her backstory doesn't make sense, to be honest.

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How do you feel being unworthy of her mecha-pussy?

>>157604346
>He's a police officer.
If a mere cop from the Time Before can BTFO even the toughest soldiers in the "present," just how invincible WAS the lost human civilization?

>>157607134
It's not purely the civilization's strength. Killy's like whatshisface from Die Hard.

>>157607134
The BLAME! civilization at its peak is more powerful than a lot of the "ancient space alien" civs in sci-fi.

Although Killy was probably augmented beyond that once the people in charge realizes things were going to get horrible.

>>157606850
2moe4me, she looks more like Pcell VIII than Sanakan.

>>157599819
>>157599746
I always thought Pcell may have been or had a connection to Musubi. She had the gravitational sword, which seemed to be a rather unique weapon that silicons wouldn't randomly get their hands on, and she was able to summon what looked like safeguard puppets.

>>157607425
>seemed to be a rather unique weapon that silicons wouldn't randomly get their hands on
There's 3 Silicons with gravitational swords in NOiSE. Thousands of years later, who knows what they've got? They've got anti-gravitational weapon shields, so they've presumably encountered those weapons before. And they've got a fuckton of those shields, so they're likely expecting to face against more than just one gravitational weapon.

>>157604624
Why do people add space after a (you) quote and before a paragraph? If it's your idea of organizing a sentence, it's not a good idea. It just adds unnecessary space and looks awkward. It hurts your what you're going for in the first place.

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https://bookwalker.jp/ex/feature/niheiworld/
質問その１――「ヘイグス粒子」「エナ」など、『人形の国』は『シドニアの騎士』と共通するキーワードが出てきます。ズバリこの2作品の世界はつながっているのでしょうか？
弐瓶先生
皆さんのご想像にお任せします。物語が進んでいけばわかるかもしれません。

Q:There are the same words such as "Higgs particle","placenta" appearing both in Aposimz and Knights of Sidonia. Are these two worlds connected?
Nihei: I'll leave it up to your imagination. You may know the truth as the story advances.

>>157607425
She could use the structure conversion towers because silicones had taken over parts of that level.

>>157607735
Get out with your not-Blame shit

>>157607735
>Nihei giving explanations
Kek, he will vague as fuck, as usual.

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>>157607735

So in like a billion years, after the last silicon life from Blame 2 finds a new home, will we have a war between the human City and a new Silicon City?

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>>157607617
>no mention of anon using "alot"
It weakens my faith in the system that it isn't a bannable offense.

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>>157607862
See: Zeb Noid

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>>157607862
If NSE and BLAME^2 were any indication, the humans are still having trouble controlling the Safeguard. In fact, BLAME^2 specifically mentioned that the humans sent Builders, not Safeguard, to destroy the Silicon.

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Which order should I read the series?

Blame 1
Noise
Blame 2
Biomega?

I find it really hard to follow the story

>>157607947
Safeguards aren't designed for offense/attacks. They're an automated process built solely to defend the Netsphere in a virus-scan way; you can't really make them do something like that.

>>157607983
Biomega is not related to Blame beyond having been made by the same person, and Blame 2 is one chapter long.

>>157608025
>Safeguards aren't designed for offense/attacks
I dunno, Exterminator: First Class seems like it could fuck your shit up

>>157607983
Blame
Blame: Prototype
Noise
Blame: NSE
Blame 2

Biomega is not related to the Blame universe, as far I know.

>>157608056
>>157608065

Ah okay. Is it strange to be completely lost on chapter 1 of Blame 1? I feel like there's a bunch of stuff I've already missed or is that normal and more stuff kind of gets explained later?

>>157608025
Right, but they were designed to protect humans and entry to the Net Sphere. Despite regaining the Net Sphere, it appears that humans were unable to regain control of the Safeguard. While they are autonomous and mostly reactive, would you feel safe knowing that there are first-class exterminators and other rogue robots running around loose in your city?

I can see a human vs safeguard conflict using up a lot of their time. No need to chase down the weakened silicons.

>>157607983
blame
blame gakuen (the best part of blame)
after that it doesnt really matter what order you read them in
blame 2 is just a short one shot

>>157608083
>Is it strange to be completely lost on chapter 1 of Blame 1?
It's pretty expected
You're going to have to read everything like four times to even begin to understand what the fuck we're talking about in here, but you'll be able to understand what's going on in general if you just read Blame once-through at an even pace

>>157608083
Some stuff is implied and only make sense after you've read through blame multiple times. Also the first volume doesn't really matter, the story only starts to develop once Cibo joins

>>157608114
>would you feel safe knowing that there are first-class exterminators and other rogue robots running around loose in your city?
Don't try to politic me
But no, I get your point.

>>157608083
Nah, that's pretty normal. Nihei's stories are like that, he doesn't infodump you since the beginning, in fact he never tell you about the totality of the story.

Imagine the threads on netsphere /pol/ as all the original happenings started happening

>>157608236
You know they would be cheering on the Order/Silicon.

>>157608236
>implying the Netsphere wasn't ruined by the right
There is a reason only richfags could access the Netsphere, but their plans backfired on them.

>>157608273
>the Silicon are going to make the netsphere great again!

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>they want to protect freedom of religion!
>our religion, that is

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>they're the party of law and order

>>157608352
>when the children with the Net ports across the hall connect to your part of the net and you revoke their permissions and send a Class-1 Exterminator after them

>>157608442
>When you use your net terminal gene special access to command the builders to construct extensions of your house in all directions around your neighbor's place, and then shoot him with a GBE when he leaves the house because traveling to Toha Heavy Industries through your private property without paying the fee constitutes a violation of the NAP

>>157608542
10/10

>>157608542
having the net terminal gene in the blame world would be pretty great
>build huge mansion
>all the safeguard waifus you want
>use safeguards to bring human genes from other areas and use cloning machines to make more waifus

>>157608678
And you could order the builders to make a cloning machine and make your harem.

>>157608617
>When you send Level 9 Safeguards after the local silicon life because they broke into your vat baby factory and killed the breeding machine women inside when you actually wanted them to attack the guy next door who was getting too competitive and they got the addresses mixed up

>>157595257
That doesn't look like Sanakan though

>When you buy an artificial lighting company and design a race of automated building robots to make a Dyson Sphere around the Sun to block it's light

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I just read Biomega, Jesus Christ did Nihei die and get replaced after volume four?! The art is completely different, it's like he got his hands replaced with fucking hooks!

>>157609203
something something daughter something something Tezuka (laughs)

>>157609203
He transitioned to digital art.

>>157609429
That doesn't explain the change in storytelling. It's harder to show it in a picture, but everything starts going to shit at about the same time the art does.

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>Toha build the megastructure
>conveniently makes it's HQ an immune zone

>>157609803
Toha didn't make the megastructure in Blame, as far as I know. It's just a nebulous, self-contained industrial company.

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if the megastructure is so tough, why dont they just make safeguards from the same material

>>157610612
Who say they aren't?

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>>157610612

You can make mega structure by putting pulp in ice.

>>157605934

>Even if she is stronger (I don't agree there),

She beats up Killy three times in combat. First time she spares him, trying to re-register him to Safeguard database. Two other times she gets interrupted from just BLAMMING Killy in his face by some outside force. First time he gets saved by Electro-Fishers, second time he gets saved by Cibo. Oh, and fourth time she gets destroyed by Killy simply because she was focusing on shooting another target entirely.

Her "Talk to the hand"-move just cancels out many things Killy could do to her in a fight. Plus she got wings so she traverses areas much faster. You usually need both Cibo and Killy to take down Sanakan. So therefore Sanakan is simply stronger than Killy.

>>157611029
She can die; he can't. End of story.

>>157592791
is this blame!
i don't remember any colored pages such as this.

>>157611141

Not dying doesn't make someone a stronger fighter. It just means he has more opportunities to lose again.

And Sanakan had infinite lives as well until Authority stole her data from the Safeguard in mid-transition.

>>157611362
it's blame2

>>157611661
blame2 ?
2nd volume of blame! ?

>>157611685
It was only a oneshot.

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>>157611685

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>>157611700
is that in here ?

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>>157597047

here you go lads

>>157611802
blame and so on has all of nihei's one shots, except sabrina, as far as i know

>>157611802
I think it's in Blame Academy and So On

>>157609782
He tried so hard
And got so far
But in the end manga was either axed or he ran out of steam

>>157611407
Sanakan's factor of infinite lives depends on her location. Killy is always immortal, as long as he is in/near The City. Through an unknown means, the critically-wounded state of his being *reactivated* certain functions of the Unofficial Layer. His regeneration is given significantly-higher priority than that of Sanakan - in the same level, she is/was unable to regenerate. There is a "BIOS-like" system, in even the faulty megastructure, which restores only critical functions - Killy's restoration is included in that classification. It is said to be an example of one of his innate traits as a secret agent.

>>157600230
That's completely wrong, thee safeguard aren't based on silicon at all, considering they came before them. in fact there's more evidence that the silicons stole th base design of the safeguard

>>157601153
Well matrix did come out halfway through blame!, maybe it finally reached Japan and Nihei went full westaboo

>>157609803
Oh shit why is the Toha logo on that builder?

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>>157612297
>Well matrix did come out halfway through blame!, maybe it finally reached Japan
It was in Japan when it came out. See picture. The Wachowski brosters apparently took some inspiration from Nihei's works, and vice-versa. But that may just be hearsay - though, I do remember reading an article about it somewhere. Could be false memories, could be an obscure article. We shall never know.

>>157609429
and got pushed into doing it weekly

>>157612197
But it Noise the Order created the first silicon creatures, they are old as shit, way before the typical safeguards we regularly see in Blame.

>>157612885
Go back and read all the material again.

>>157612885
it's been a while since i read noise, but dont they summon a safeguard who kills everyone at one point

>>157612885

Silicon cyborg stole Safeguard technology, so no. Safeguard where also planning on killing everyone with no netsphere gene.

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>>157612347

>>157612481
I can second that. I've read an interview where the Wachowski brothers said that Blame! was a major influence for The Matrix, in the same way that Banks's Feersum Endjinn was the major influence for Blame!

But alas, I'm unable to find the interview. It's not a false memory though.

>>157613236
>Wachowski brothers
you mean sisters

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>tfw you'll never work for Toha

>>157611141
>>157611407
>>157612160
To be fair, all of the protagonists are immortals, in a way.

Killy: His body can resist a lot of physical impacts of any kind, plus his organism is very tolerant for harsh environments and all kinds of poisons. He have incredible regenerative skills and insanely higher levels of stamina.

Sanakan: Similar abilities as Killy, plus the benefit of having multiple backups of her and can spawn every time she wants to with the permission of Governors, of course.

Cibo: Expert on the art of body hijacking, any body is enough for her. If no body is available, she can make one from scrapped junk.

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Wachowski brothers made just one hit franchise and get rich enough to change their gender and never work again.
Nihei made BLAME!, BIOMEGA, ABARA, Sidonia and his daughter blamed him for not being Shingeki tier.

>>157613262
That's why I used "brosters".

>>157613236
Good to know that I'm not crazy, then.

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>>157613306
>work for toha
>somebody futzes with the gravity engine
>suddenly you and your entire lineage dating back to prehistory is wiped from the timeline

>>157613744
Nihei was born in the wrong country.

This movie aside, I think Nihei is a true living genius. His talent is H.R.Giger tier and should be treated as such.

>>157614022
I dunno man, the first 3 chapters of Aposimz look like generic shonen plot so far, and the drawing isn't the best either.

>>157614022
He'll be treated as such when and if he returns to making works with artistic integrity. For now, I will continue to separate the man from his works other than where Q&As or whatever are concerned.

>went for the action
>stayed for Cibo and Sanakan

>>157612160
So was Killy some kind of ultra high level pre-safeguard black ops android before the netsphere disaster, or something?

>>157614456
I've been giving the long answers for like 3 days now, so I'm kinda done with all that.
Short answer: yes.

>please step on me, Sanakan
>no one cares about Tae and Zuru

Humanity can't compete with robots in the post singularity world.

>>157614531
You should make a screencap and just post that

>>157614678
I did. People see it, but still have questions. I have to answer them. Help.

>>157614100
You could say the same thing about Biomega and it was all right until it got axed

>>157614100
when Sidonia came out people claimed it was a generic macross ripoff.

>>157615325
>no penis waifu singing idol music to stop the gauna

>>157602804
BUT WHAT THE FUCK THEY WERE

>>157615425
Just Silicons who were wearing armour.

>>157609782
He probably got tired with Biomega after volume 3

>>157615480
But why so strong?

>>157615561
Because the extremely advanced military equipment? They don't even need that kind of justification - a silicon pairing like Schiff and Blon would be more-or-less on par with Sanakan. Give one of them a gravity sword, and they might be able to outmatch her. If we assume that the knight Silicons are around Schiff-level strength, there aren't many surprises in that outcome.

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This is your new waifu.

>>157615752
Can you breed with a safeguard?

>>157615976
You can order them to if you got the genes.

>>157615561
Evolution
Each area of the megastructure has variants of it's denizens
Some are more advanced than others

>>157616105
Would I have them as pre singularity human?

How come the Safeguard didn't spam Class A Exterminators until Killy was dead? He can't defeat them alone.
>Exterminator btfo Killy
>waits around his body as it regenerates
>as soon as it's almost done, zap him again before he can move
>repeat

>>157608955
why would it

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Can someone explain this page to me?

>>157617714
It literally means "even the builders have no idea what they are doing"

The HUD design is so fucking fantastic.

Why shooting GBE eats away Killy's energy in the movie?
Or that also happened in the manga but I am forgetting?

>>157619521
It always did that.

>>157619635
But he was able to use it pretty freely in the later chapters of the manga, but I recall that happened after he activated his abilities and stuff

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>>157619698
He also had to completely drain an energy storage facility the size of a city to recharge himself.

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>>157591757
Don't forget he also slaughters their babies, and he gives a rare smirk while admitting so

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>>157619948
vol 1. chapter 6

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>>157619948

>>157600963
I thought it was something more like smart lighter (and was a male). She even states in that chapter that she was an toy AI.

>>157619983
Work hard, play hard.

>>157619935
>Sanakan is looking at you anon! What do you say?

>>157616473
I don't think it's this "free" to download safeguards in reality. Energy isn't infinite everywhere everytime in the city, as stated in domochesky arc.

>>157621235
Please step on me!

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Stupid sexy Cibo legs.

>>157621356
Do they take the time to put sexual pleasure sensors in the robot bodies?

>>157621405
It's the end goal of the singularity.

>>157621405
No. I mean yes, but not in the way you want it to be.
At that level of technology it wouldn't be something you could fuck. It would be more like a pleasure switch.
Or it could be something you could fuck, but it literally wouldn't matter and the pleasure would be independent of your fucking. But why would you do that when you can just install your own pleasure switch instead of going through that trouble?

>>157621405
>>157621622
Once we start have the technology to produce synthetic female bodies, the first thing humanity will do is add a clitoris sensor in the throat and make human cum taste like strawberry cake.

>>157621622
Why do I want to change my major to math or computer science and only focus on strong AI?

>>157620455
The small golem, akin to a teddy bear I guess, states that it was the toy AI, not the girl with the capsule

>>157614565
I care about Tae and Zuru!

how will they make a sequel without cibo?
gravity furnaces?

>>157623556
Full anime will end as full reboot.

How certain are we that this will get a sequel or an anime series anyways? Was the movie popular on Netflix?

>>157619635
>>157619842
Horseshit, don't fuck around. Using the GBE never cost Killy any energy. The factory which he drains at the beginning of volume 9 is because he used energy to regenerate his own body, not because he used energy for anything else.

>>157591757
To be fair, he's the probably the one that twisted all those Builders into... those things.

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Anyone know the source of this interview?

I can't read kanji.

>>157613744
That's why he's focusing more on cute girls now, Sidonia and the BLAME! movie are good examples of that.

>>157625540
オイコノミア by the NHK
I don't know the episode number but I think it was on 5/18