>nature is good >progress is bad

Man, I hated Nusicaa. It's like Mononoke Hime except without the subtlety, the observer maincharacter, and with a much more pointless central conflict.

>>157561409
What is 90% of anime, manga and JRPGs?

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>nature is good
>progress is good
NO WAIT DEWEY WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG god I hate AO

>tfw conservative but love this movie

I just really love all Miyazaki movies.

>>157561409
>tfw I literally saw this less than six months ago and I don't even remember what it was about because I hated it so much

Tomino is better than Miyazaki in every way

>>157561409
Are we talking about the film or the manga?

>>157561409
More like
>progress is progress
>nature is OP and will smack your ass to submission if you mess around

First time learning that Miyazaki is a insufferable hippie fag? I won't bother posting some of his quotes, since they will undoubtedly spark /pol/ discussion. Granted, not all his films are like that, but especially in this one it is present.

op in charge of comprehension

There are people in this thread that think you have to be a lefty in order to appreciate and want to protect nature.

>>157561409
>i'm a retard that only recognize things as black and white and pretend to be outraged by my own idiocy

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>>157561409
>Nature is good
>Polluting irresponsibly is bad
Fixed that for you.

>>157561409
>Nature is bad
>progress is bad
>you just gotta pick the poison you like more

>>157561409
progress is makes things go further.
Without progress all be dead.

>>157562486
It's wasn't even that Nature was good. Nature was horrifying and brutal. But it was worth saving and misunderstood.

>>157562408
But Nausicaa is black and white. That's the big prblem with the movie.

Compare Eboshi, who is made far more relatable by caring for her people, with metal arm girl, who is made relatable because she suffered to get where she is.

Eboshi tells you that humans as well are virtuous, Metal Girl tells you the human system is fucked and they are scum and wrong about everything.

>Nature is good
Nature is completely amoral.

>>157561409
>Don't steal babies from killer whales

>>157561578
>peace is possible even between those who are truly different
LOL NO THEY'RE MINDLESS KILLERS

>>157562706
Humans are a product of nature. If nature was truly amoral than so too would we be.

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>>157561409
Read the manga dipshit. If you did and you still think this is message you're too dumb for miyazaki and that's something to be proud of I guess.

>>157562615
Kushana is far better in the manga, I agree that the movie sells her short, but the OP image is from the manga.

>>157562819
Humans as a whole aren't "good" or "bad". Humans are countless individuals with varying degrees of understanding and indifference.

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There is no avoiding the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.
Anything you do destroys the universe through entropy. Including eating, breathing, and bitching about the environment.
We need to get off of this planet before the international political elite and their SJW tools make the rest of us into starving peasants.

>>157561409
The Nausicaa film is pretty fundamentally a kids' movie, from before Miyazaki figured out that it's better to stop worrying and just put "mature" themes in kids' movies. That's why it tells such a simple story compared to his later works.
The manga (which that image is from) tells a much longer and more complex story that provides arguments for not just the Torumekians, but also the other human factions (which are mostly skimmed over or absent in the movie). It might be more satisfying for you.

>>157563132
I'm not sure what to make of the manga. It reveals that all the organisms that are un-polluting the world were genetically engineered to do so by humans, which seems like a reconciliation of nature and science. But then it ends with Nausicaa finding an ancient technological Macguffin that can fix everything, but choosing to destroy it instead.

>>157561409

Have you read the manga? Because its message changes quite radically after few books.

The Spore forest turns out to be human-made, engineered to eat up all the pollutants, then die to give soil for normal plant-life.

Turns out future humans' bodies cannot handle purified nature, and the few pilgrims the super-hippie forest folk made in the center of the purified lands resulted in them coughing their lungs out.

The message in the end is there is no easy way out, humanity has to endure through the grit of their teeth and die in droves until the natural exposure to changing environment will make them able to live in the normal world again.

Nausicaä herself sobers up from the pure optimism when the awakened Arbiter thinks she is its Mother, and she reluctantly wants to use this walking nuclear bomb giant to destroy The Crypt that preserves all the previous technology. Forced to act like a kind and caring mother and feeling guilty about it because she despises the huge towering radiation-monstrosity

The little squirrel friend of hers just unceremoniously dies by the slow poisoning of The Arbiter when he's flying both of them to their destination

>>157563299
Because using it would have destroyed everything new.

>>157563079
this post is disgustingly stupid. go back to /pol/.

>>157563299

Because humanity repeats its mistakes when they keep taking tech with them from The Crypt.

Not to mention how The Crypt doesn't give a shit about the surviving humans, thinking of them as inferior. It houses the seeds for the future humanity which gets born after the Forest has done its job. Also the end of the world was deliberately caused by the same people who built The Crypt. They're the radical hippies who thought humanity was too corrupt, so just make a bunch of giant robots that kill everything, while making an artificial organism that purifies the Earth after its engulfed in nuclear fire.

>>157563594
Sound's like my kind of hippies, where can I join up?

>>157562992
My point was that everything is inherently immoral, but that we can still apply constructed moralities to things like nature, just as we do to humans.

>>157562486
>>Nature is good
Then why have humans spent so much time trying to fix all the shit in nature?

Yeah I like that every major power country has nukes.

>>157561409
It's true to an extent. Progress isn't inherently bad but there comes a point where we're no longer progressing in the right direction and we're long past that point.

>>157563079
Did you get your understanding of thermodynamics from a Star Trek episode or something?
It's not worth trying to explain entropy to some retard on /a/, but to encourage you to educate yourself, I'll point out that (especially macroscopically) entropy is not a measure of disorder or chaos. It can be naively understood as the former if we confine ourselves to some well understood microscopic system, and if describing that system as having disorder even makes sense, and if it's simple enough that disorder is close to an accurate description. We don't even know how gravity works. It makes no sense to apply thermodynamics to the entire universe in the first place, much less make offensively naive interpretations of it.

>everybody I know, both weeb and normalfag, hail this and Princess Mononoke as top tier animated films

I will never understand the undying love for Miyazaki.

>>157563924
I thought entropy was a measure of the amount of "useful" energy states in a closed system.

>>157563079
>nternational political elite
You can just say "Jew"

>>157563950
>I will never understand the undying love for Miyazaki.

He makes good movies.

>>157564059
I mean, they're beautiful, sure, but some of the most popular of his films seem so paper-thin as far as their actual messages or content goes. They lack depth in a lot of ways and don't really do much for me.

>>157564155
Sometimes a simple story is best.

>>157561618
Why is conservatism against "let's not shit up the planet with pollution"? Friggin Teddy Roosevelt was a conservationist.

>>157564045
Yeah that's a decent description to think about in a stat mech course. It's not perfect because you can have information entropy and various configurational entropies that don't always refer to energy, and it breaks down when you include gravity.

>>157564183
I don't want the planet to be turned to shit and actually am not against some environmental regulations but unchecked and unnecessary laws made by unelected bureaucrats is not the way to do it and I oppose that. Essentially this makes me the bad guy from Fern Gully.

>>157564155

Theres only so much you can cram on a length of the movie, so keeping things simple is smart.

>>157564181
>>157564239
It's not that the narrative itself is lacking in complexity though, it's that the overall thematic elements are lacking. You can tell a simple story that still explores some really interesting concepts (either on a personal level or on a greater scale) and do so while being able to address multiple sides or views on that topic. It's not like narrative complexity and thematic depth necessarily exist in some kind of direct correlation.

>>157561618
>Not always enjoying and even cheering for themes that you completely disagree with that make sense in the context of the story's universe

>>157564222
>unchecked and unnecessary laws made by unelected bureaucrats
Those rules are drawn up and put in place by people appointed and confirmed by elected officials, with both them and the judiciary as the check. They are appointed for their expertise. We can't elect everybody, at some point you need actual experts to be appointed by elected representatives.

>>157564285

Well, most of the messages are just humanity is great, nature is great and thats pretty much it. Nothing wrong with that since the movies present those simple themes well. You watch those movies for the beautiful "summer-adventure" aesthetic and the likeable and relatable characters.

>>157563950
He has the benefit of a low bar for what constitutes 'good' when it comes to animation.

>>157562819
And we are, morality is just some shit we made up to rationalize why society says rules are so important.

>>157561531
The movie butchered the manga story.

>>157561754
The twist of the manga is that humans engineered all the creatures that are wiping them out. None of them are natural.

>>157561618
nah mate you're a neocon
true conservatives believe the agricultural revolution was a mistake

>>157565651

And then they butchered the movie in burgerland.

>>157565744
It was though.

>>157565873
I don't mean in the happy accident way

>>157566019
Nor do i.

>>157564493
>gary stus and mary sues
>likeable and relatable characters.

Yeah, nah.

>>157565744
Breeding horses was a mistake.

>>157562819
Morality stems from empathy. Humans evolved empathy because it's useful for living in tribes, which is helpful for raising more babies. Also, early humans lived in tribes that consisted of members of their own families, so protecting those around you also meant protecting your own lineage. So empathy and morality are inherently meaningless, their just mechanisms we evolved to become more fit.

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>>157561409
Movie was too heavy handed. I'm pretty sure Miyazaki addressed this when he made Princess Mononoke which is a lot more grey if not nuanced.

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Nausicaa will always be my favorite because I love the setting. The ohmu are so much cooler than the mononoke, and the forrest was beautiful and bizarre. Even the music was otherworldly and unsettling. Mononoke-hime always seemed too polished to me, almost tryhard. Nausicaa isn't perfect, but it's different from anything else I've ever seen and I really seemed like a piece of Miyazaki's mind.

>>157563810
*insulating themselves from nature while still enjoying its benefits

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>fucking small children and Unit731 is good
>droping nukes on Japan is bad

>>157565651
spoil that shit

>>157563299
>fix everything
Not for the people currently living on the Earth. They were expected to die out as it gets purified.