I mean, even indirectly. Ueno, Kawai, the teacher, the father, none of these redeems or suffers any punishment for their irresponsible acts. Everything just gets more stable when Shoko and Ishida (the victims) change.
So it's as if the author was saying: "if you don't want to be bullied, learn to communicate better".
Mob mentality. If you go against the current you're wrong. In this case Ishida was the main bully and everyone just went with it. The little shits being kids didn't feel any guilt for their actions. Hell, Ishida wouldn't have cared about her if the the class didn't bully him back. Sure, the teacher was a scumbag, but against children, adults can get away with a lot. Because that's how Japan rolls.
It's a case of nobody being innocent. Only Shouko had any moral rights to blame any of them, but she's also brainwashed with that retarded nip custom of "not being a bother to others". Fucked up.
>"if you don't want to be bullied, learn to communicate better"
That's literally the Japanese cultural stance on the subject.
The entirety of Japan genuinely believes that the victims of bullying are at fault for being an ideal target, and that if they just communicated better and made friends, they wouldn't be bullied.
It's their version of the American "Stand up for yourself and the bully will back down"
As I already said. She brought a fucking notebook, what more do they want? For her to magically not be deaf? Part of it was them being children, but the majority never really came to terms with being a cunt.
I feel ya, there's a limit on how much of a cunt kids and adults can't be but the author had to hammer that shit to fucking 11.
i can't take it, its like slavery or the disregard of personal rights in modern settings, makes my inner white knight mad as hell
Bullying is good. It separates the wheat from the chaff. Gold is purified in fire, and iron sharpens iron. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. The strong do what they can, and the weak suffer what they must. The animal kingdom is filled with pecking-orders.
Your whole POV is intrinsically abnormal/pathological
The world is very coarse and is going to remain that way. Effcient strategies for rising above it are more useful that peddling sympathy and trying to stop such a large system.
I didn't knew we were still hunting in africa with stone spears
Face it commie, social norms are dead and individuality rules the world now, every link is a chain and that mindset doesn't work anymore
I am not a commie. You on the other hand are an imbecile. Humans are social animals. As long as you don't live as a hermit in the middle of nowhere subsisting off the land through your own work, you depend on others for your continued existence.
Ueno was right about literally everything.
Most of the themes in this movie is explored in a very superficial way. The fact that the MC, who obviously suffered from serious depression, suddenly overcame his suicidal tendencies because his mom yelled at him once is laughable at best. The whole bullying aspect itself wasn't even explored that in-depth. The communication aspect was explored in-depth since that was the central theme but the manga did a far better job in setting up the bullying aspect so that the 2nd half had much more impact.
>tumblr calling others communists
>wanting to prune out defective individuals is degenerate
no, degeneration comes from accommodating for them. handicapped people should be euthanised.
>t the MC, who obviously suffered from serious depression, suddenly overcame his suicidal tendencies because his mom yelled at him
That is not the reason. The reason was the unexpected turn his meeting with Shouko took. (a second chance is a lot, what with him picking on Shouko being the reason why he was suicidal in the first place) He literally says that much in a monologue. Maybe you should pay more attention to what you're watching.
>posting on malasian cave painting board
>upstanding member of society with 2 kids a house and 401k
As with most japanese bully stories, the moral is that the society sucks, the instution sucks, the administration sucks, and the watchdogs don't watch. The message is yes, it's wrong, but things are already so broken and rotten that nobody will come to help you and nobody cares. The moral is about surviving in a bad world you cannot possibly change, instead of pretending it will somehow get better if you just hurt hard enough.
It wasn't exactly victim blaming but it also did nothing to redeem any of the characters other than ishida. By the end of the movie as far as ueno is concerned she has done nothing wrong. She never apologizes and the group just accepts her because everyone magically got over everything
Nobody gets what they deserve in the end, and I don't think it intended to portray Ueno/Kawai/etc as doing the right thing. The message was just as much that you can't rely on karma and that nobody is completely empathetic.
I think the movie isn't blaming anyone. Kind of bold, actually, I like that approach. What I took from it was that bad things will happen, and when they do we shouldn't blame others or ourselves, but learn from our mistakes.
His original plan was to apologize to her and kill himself later that day. He didn't intend to befriend her. It shows more in the manga where he's realizing that apologizing isn't enough to make up for everything he's taken from her. While he's asking to be friends, he's even wondering why he's saying this since it puts himself in a position where he can no longer kill himself.
>What I took from it was that bad things will happen, and when they do we shouldn't blame others or ourselves, but learn from our mistakes.
Bad things also happen because people make bad choices and these people should take responsibility.
I think learning from mistakes is important, but did Ueno learn? The teacher learned? It was the victims who did it. And I don't think a deaf girl, who never raised a finger to anyone, made a mistake.
I wonder about Ueno, at the very least it seems as though she matured a bit at the end I think. Her learning even just the sign for "baka" says quite a bit. I like what you said about Shouko, but I think what she learns in the end is to love herself more. The movie makes her self-loathing pretty clear. Maybe you think that's cheating to call it her "mistake" but again, learning to forgive instead of point fingers seemed to me to be the core theme.
Ueno learns, it's subtle but by the finale she's making an effort to get along with Shoko. She's taught herself some signing and helps Shoko keep up with the conversation.
Still a bitch but both versions of her are basically positioned to grow for the better going forward. Most of the other characters got screwed in the movie, and Kawai's probably not going to get better in either version.
Some of it is commentary on the Japanese education system and how unequipped it is to help students with disabilities, and how badly bullying is handled by everyone involved. There aren't big anti-bullying campaigns in Japan like there are in the western world. Teachers may turn a blind eye or just not be invested.
But while there is that commentary there, it's not the main focus of the entire series. It's meant to be a story of hope, change, and redemption.
But it is the duty of the educational system to prevent and punish bad behavior. And there's the problem: he does not do that.
Yeah, the author says that the system and society blame the victim, but instead of showing the negative consequences of it, she just ignores them, so much that in the end Nishimiya learns to communicate better and becomes "friend" of Ueno, the the girl who hit her, the girl who did not regret anything, the girl who was not punished.
It's pragmatic, but the SJW view is that not everyone is capable of fixing their own problems.
So then the pragmatists have to decide whether it's worth it to fix the problem at all.
>But it is the duty of the educational system to prevent and punish bad behavior. And there's the problem: he does not do that.
He did punish bad behavior. He scapegoated Ishida and washed his hands of the matter.
>Her learning even just the sign for "baka" says quite a bit
>Ueno learns, it's subtle but by the finale she's making an effort to get along with Shoko.
True. It does not exist in the manga, but it was a cool, yet naive, detail.
What do you mean by naive? I liked it because it's like she's beginning to walk the path Shouya did, learning sign language (learning to communicate, listening to others) was one of the first big steps he took.
I meant from a storytelling point of view. Ueno humiliated Shoko several times, just learning to say "baka" in sign language should not be enough to erase that trauma. But if we consider that Shoko fell in love with Ishida after all, it is clear that the film is "naive" in its entirety.
Ueno is right. She hates Nishimiya and bullies her, but she uses it to make an important point about her: Nishimiya won't fight back and just tries to get past confrontations through self-deprecation. She puts on a fake smile and accepts the blame and is only ever seen as a victim. She doesn't call Ueno out on her bullshit. She doesn't fight back. She's always in the "right" since she never does anything wrong, despite nobody's lives improving. Not standing up for herself has not helped anyone. Ishida went as far as he did because Nishimiya never stopped him, and in the process he ended up screwing up his own life.
Ueno and Nishimiya are polar opposites, and Nishimiya needed to learn to develop some self-worth and stand up for herself like Ueno.
This doesn't make any of what Ueno did right, but there's a reason why she's a driving force in the story.
Back when the manga was just a one shot, there was a lot of controversy surrounding it because people didn't like that it portrayed the Japanese society as cruel to the disabled. They couldn't even publish it as a full series at first because some groups were pushing so hard to get the one shot banned.
That's probably why the full series kind of avoids bringing the issue up more than it has to.
>Being depressed is not a choice, it's a consequence.
Consequences of what? Choices.
That guy who shot his brains out didn't just end up in that spot independent of his choices.
If you believe in personal responsibility, then someone's condition always lies in part, with themselves.
When you become an adult, you realize you have neiother freewill nor social control in your life.
At best you decide trivial things, but surely not how you deal with the card you didn't choose.
The story is not only about Ishida's redemption, but Nishimiya overcoming her role as merely a victim. Towards the end when she tries to bring all of Ishida's friends together, she seems very much like her mother, a character whose inner strength was seemingly boundless in the manga, practically to the point that she seems cold to the suffering of her children in the hopes that they will acquire her fierce will. She wanted Nishimiya to attend a normal school so as to strengthen her through hardships, and also didn't want her hair to be long so it couldn't be pulled by bullies. Her husband left her and she worked long hours in a hospital to provide for her two daughters.
>Consequences of what? Choices.
Losing a family member is not a choice. Being raped is not a choice. Losing your job is not a choice. Born deaf is not a choice.
Nishimiya is depressed because she is different and knows that being different, especially in Japan, is very difficult. She was abandoned by her father because of it.
This is a philosophical concept I don't feel like getting into, but you should read up on compatibilism.
While most adults don't have the courage to make use of it, they actually have a significant amount of social control over their lives.
>boss is shit
>quit job, find new job
>friend betrays you
>cut contact, find new friends
>family disowns you
>make your own family
While it's true it takes a lot of effort, so we often don't go for these options (i.e. we'll settle for a mildly shitty boss), they are in fact there. Our laziness (or more accurately our subconscious cost-benefit analysis) is the only thing standing between us and creating more satisfactory social conditions.
And if you mean control over others like a king, that comes with living in a free society. I can't control you and you can't control me to such an extent.
Being an adult isn't about giving up and going to a day-job you hate, eeking out a miserable existence that makes you question the utility of introducing your brain to a 12 gauge.
And how you react to these things which aren't entirely outside of your control depends on your mindset, which you can influence.
I'm not saying bad things don't happen outside our control, but how we react to them certainly is.
To push everything outside one's self is to make yourself powerless where you would otherwise be able to make a difference.
Instead of improving yourself, changing yourself which is well within your ability, you decide the world needs to change, which won't fucking happen.
Am I saying getting punched is what she needs? No, but letting her know she has agency over herself will go a long way towards her growing up as a member of society that can deal with being treated different and open a few eyes even.
A victim mentality helps no one.
OH, SHIT. THE POINT HERE IS THAT NO MATTER IF YOU ARE UGLY, DEPRESSED, ISOLATED, SHY, ANTISOCIAL, GAY, CHANNER, ETC, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO GO TO SCHOOL AND NOT TO BE HOSTILIZED.
THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE MANGA IS KIND OF SAYING THAT WRONG ARE THOSE WHO DO NOT KNOW HOW TO COMMUNICATE OR TO BE MORE SOCIABLE, INSTEAD OF SAYING THAT WRONG ARE THOSE WHO HURT THE THEM BECAUSE THEY DON'T FIT ON THEIR IDEAL OF SOCIETY.
>A victim mentality helps no one.
Being aggressive does not either. This only works on KnK because it's a melodrama. In real life, aggressiveness only generates two things: the suicide of the victim or the death of the aggressor.
>THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE MANGA IS KIND OF SAYING THAT WRONG ARE THOSE WHO DO NOT KNOW HOW TO COMMUNICATE OR TO BE MORE SOCIABLE
The manga isn't really saying this. It's just trying to reflect Japanese society.
And even if it was, you saying the whole world has to accommodate the fucking misfits?
The world doesn't run on a victim hierarchy because it rewards being an ineffectual bitch.
Easy on the shitposting. Either way the theme of "communication" I think is saying that we should seek to understand each other, not just be more sociable. Shouya sees Shouko as an alien (great visual gag with the video game there) and only ever tries to understand her until it's too late.
>In real life, aggressiveness only generates two things: the suicide of the victim or the death of the aggressor.
The victim always commits suicide from aggression? You mean the aggressor never kills their victim?
Furthermore, aggressiveness always leads to death? Good to know all bar fights end in death. Oh wait, they don't? Huh.
Aggressiveness doesn't equal "everything I don't like."
>we should seek to understand each other
Again, the problem is that the story ignores the actions of hostile characters like Ueno. So, instead of being punished, Ueno ends up being the voice of reason. She was annoyed because Shouko was an "alien". And beat her because of it. When Shouko learned to communicate, everything got better. So, Ueno, the bully, was right. Nishimiya, the victim, was wrong.
So, once again, it does not matter if I'm an "alien", you have no right to attack me.
Shouko and Ishida didn't really change. The theme is forgiveness and letting go. The fact that the bullies didn't suffer punishment is the point. There is no divine justice in the real world and rotten people get away with it, you just have to move on and let it go.
Three things, sorry: more isolation.
And we're talking about aggressiveness directed at people who are sick, depressed, and psychologically unstable.
If you think you can help someone like that by saying "hey, stop being a coward, you asshole", good luck.
In my shitty third world shithole, if some kid be bullied, they will stab back with a knife. This is why there is very few case of bully here. Think twice before bully someone or it will end up with one stab and you're dead
>Shouko and Ishida didn't really change.
Of course they've changed. They clearly learned to communicate better and not to hide.
>There is no divine justice in the real world and rotten people get away with it, you just have to move on and let it go.
So remain "friend" of someone who humiliated me and never regretted it valid? Conformism is the answer? Really?
When did I ever say the society in Koe no Katachi runs on a victim hierarchy? Far from it.
Damn, that's not even a strawman. I don't even know what to call that. I might have to invent a new term for this.
I'm defending Koe no Katachi's society and attacking society's that run on a victim mentality. Not only am I doing the exact opposite to the two, but they are polar opposites, yet you somehow confuse the two?
Please read a book.
I agree, but at the same time Ueno is hardly portrayed in a positive light. So while she's not "punished" I wouldn't say the movie justifies her actions. I think it's okay to condemn Shouko's inaction (always apologizing, always blaming herself) without saying Ueno's reaction to it was okay.
Ah, damn there was a not in there.
Societies that run on victim mentalities don't just leave people who are disadvantaged alone, but fucking reward them.
I find it hard to believe there is any perfect neutral state. People will have emotional reactions to things.
So if you don't want bad things happening to disadvantaged people, you'll end up arguing for a victim mentality culture.
Feels like it's going for a more realistic view on this kind of bullying stuff, it's often true that people who bullied when they were kids grow up to not really care about it or have it affect them, especially considering how, at least in earlier generations up until around the early 2000's, it was pretty hard to get teachers to deal with bullying effectively.
In the end, it was the victims who had to change, to become more resilient and stand up against bullies, otherwise nothing would really change.
"Kill them with kindness" doesn't really apply to kids or even young teens, mainly because they just have a lesser sense of guilt or conscientiousness that most adults do.
The entire Ueno acceptance completely blew my mind. How she was not excommunicated from the group after the evidence of abuse and assault on the ferris wheel from the recording is beyond me.
If there were guns in Japan, there'd probably be more mass shootings than 'murrica because of how much bullying there is.
If I was Shouya I would snap and bring a carbine to school, before offing myself.
She's a cunt, she knows she's a cunt. She also was the only one who called everyone else out for being cunts. That's why they really couldn't say much about her because everyone but the deaf girl, and the one who tried to be a friend but was a coward, was a cunt. Her trying to sign at the end was her apology.
I was just surprised with how well Kyoani adapted the source material, trimming the bullshit about the moviemaking.
The story should be told from Shouko's perspective, or even better, have the characters switch genders. Shouko doesn't even feel like a character, she's just a cardboard cutout watching things happen around her with no agency whatsoever.
> watching things happen around her with no agency whatsoever.
Wasn't that the problem that they pointed out that she had? That she was too passive and needed to gain a sense of self worth and agency so that she could deal with her problems?
Also, I think that assessment might be a little harsh anyway, mainly considering that the people around Shouko were had much louder personalities, it's not surprising that the deaf girl with horrible social skills seems quieter by comparison.
at the end they were all friends and I couldn't care less. they all should have owned up to it and just made peace with that. you can probably smell the cancer emanating from that group of characters
It is not as much blame as "the best way you can deal with being bullied is sucking it up" mentality. The only guy who tried to fight the bully straightforwardly was portrayed as misguided and somewhat warped in the head.
>Wasn't that the problem that they pointed out that she had? That she was too passive and needed to gain a sense of self worth and agency so that she could deal with her problems?
Yeah but in the end we don't see this happening either. She just goes back to following after Ishida and his friends. What bothers me the most is that she doesn't have a life outside of orbiting around him. Her only hobby is feeding fish, jesus, even her sister is a more complex and interesting character.
>tfw going to Brazil to fug bitches and trannies and coming back to your waifu and daughteru in japan once a month to show support
He kinda has a point, but let's not forget that the teachers were responsible for some of those troubles themselves. Remember how they were against letting Shoko sing until a stupid teacher with a vagina decided it'd be bad to exclude her?
The first thing I read about the movie back in September was that it replaced plot points, exposition and monologues from the manga with visual symbolism and artsy direction so I knew exactly what to expect. A lot of its finer storytelling was done through non-verbal communication, split-second imagery and audio sensory experimentation that really made it into a different story from the manga altogether as it produced a visual representation of hearing and lack thereof. Most of all I felt from the opening song that this film was a stylistic encapsulation of contemporary Japanese cinema and our generation in popular culture today. I felt the song was a reflection of globalization weaving together Eastern and Western aesthetics,Yamada's influences in art.
Not really. Ueno hinted a lot to Shouko that they don't like her. She didn't even tell her that directly when they were kids because she didn't want to hurt Shouko's feelings, yet Shouko remained oblivious and still tried to be friends with them.
This is one of the biggest flaws apparent in the movie. An almost complete absence of character development from Nishimiya or even trying to tell any of the story from her own point of view. It skews the perception of the viewer that she's a mere moeblob and helpless damsel subject to bullying where in the manga we see more of her emotions and thoughts - even a possible different narrative where she fights back.
Koe o Katachi was a good movie but because it skips out of so many different characters backgrounds and development as individuals the very portrayal of so many personalities gets warped completely making them appear much shallower than what they really are.
>didn't want to hurt Shouko's feelings
>just talks behind her back and insults anyone who tries to be her friend
By the way, how is "talking behind someone's back" supposed to be a signal to stay away from them, anyway? Unless the person who does intentionally makes it so that the subject of the bullying knows the source, it doesn't signal shit. This is just Ueno doing a post-facto rationalization of her shitty behavior
>didn't want to hurt Shouko's feelings
>just talks behind her back and insults anyone who tries to be her friend
Exactly. If she wanted to hurt Shouko's feelings, she would have just wrote on her notebook.
You're just blaming Ueno because your precious Donald Duck got bullied by Ishida, got away with it, and is now probably fucking her right now.
in my actually quite pleasant third world shithole, if the bullied kid can't stab the bully, their friends or family or someone who live near the bullied kid would. and then the family, friends and people who live near the dead bully will fight back. And then war between neighborhood happens. it's fun
>Shouko only won because Ishida felt guilty
If she didn't enroll in the school, Ishida and Ueno would have been a cute couple because they ACTUALLY have personalities. Unlike Shouko who's undeniable the blandest character in the story.
Should have been a series rather than a movie, too many things were cut off and made it hard to understand. Also Ueno was less of a bitch in the movie really wanted to see her hole up in the hospital room.
KyoAni did a really good job condensing the series into a 2 hours movie. It's unavoidable that a lot of material would be excluded but they did a good job including the core of story and executing it in a way that felt natural. A lot better than I expected.
after reading the manga, i just labeled this as another "cute girl gets away with anything because shes a cute girl"
like ya she got bullied but she's clearly emotionally unstable and is basically impossible to communicate with even for her sister. no one in their right mind would actually want to pair off with her except virgin weab readers who give her a pussypass because shes cute
im not saying ishida is any better since he seems like a fuckhead with anger issues, though.
I mean like damn, Nao blames Shouko for making it awkward between herself and Sahara when it was Nao who went out of her way to bully Sahara in the first place. You've got to do some fucking logic loops to even begin to think that's justified.
In my shitty third world shithole, if some kid be bullied, there's a chance they'll retaliate with a school shooting. But there are still many case of bully here. Think twice before bully someone or it will end up with one bullet and you're dead
While the last 20 or so minutes of the movie felt super rushed the manga currently feels like it's cluttered with dumb anime tropes like the film project and shoya's teen edge phase.
Not sure what the point of webming this is desu but w/e
Ueno did nothing wrong
What did they mean with this shot?
Nowhere. The movie skipped some extra scenes between Shouko and her mother when they were kids and that's it. She's just as devoid of any motivation and goals as she is in the movie.
Seriously though, what was this guy's problem?
I sure as fuck didn't. If I didn't like somebody I would just leave them alone. Particularly after elementary school, bullying just gets more uncool and pointless the older you get. I have a hard time relating to bullying stories just because leaving people alone was the preferred strategy for effectively everyone.
Me. And I'm not enough cunt to be bother others when you yourself have your hands full. And don't give me bullshit about "If you haven't bullied people, then you're the one who was bullied", things don't go binary that way. Some people do respect others and even if they don't, they won't try shit that won't harm others.
>ywn bully someone with Ueno
I never did it, but I was the one who was bullied because I acted extremely autistic, to the point where my teacher asked my parents to undergo a diagnosis for it (which never happened).
Elementary school was pretty much just excluding me from events
Middle school was people making me fall down the stairs repeatedly and getting bruises, getting beat up 24/7
High school was pretty chill actually, people left me alone because I didn't bother them
Koe no Katachi is the only manga which helped me to let go of the past actually.
>I'm not bullying I'm just rustling and roughing the up, they'll teach em', those lowlifes of society!
What the fuck, this scene is completely different in the original manga compared to the anime movie. In the movie, Ishida never says "I can't beleive you said something so embarassing with a straight face!!".
>High school was pretty chill actually, people left me alone because I didn't bother them
This is really what high school is like mostly everywhere. It's crazy that most media obsesses over high school bullying when the real shit happens in middle school and younger.
I think a lot of people here are equating the bullies not getting any comeuppance with victim blaming: apart from Ishida none of them got what they deserved, but their actions are not condoned either.
As for why Ueno and Kawai weren't told to fuck off from the group, as a former bully Ishida probably thought he was not in the position to judge, while Shouko just didn't care.
A real pity, there could've been a nice message about disability and how you need to help yourself first and foremost before expecting others to adapt to your problem.
Like if this was simply getting ignored by your class, your teacher getting slightly annoyed at having to deal with your problems, your parents being stressed by the reality of having a disabled kid, it could've worked as a story where the protagonist finally gets out of her own misery and learns that people are far more accepting if you're the first one to make an effort.
This actually happens often in bullying with kids, very often it's really just their way of communicating with someone they don't understand how to deal with, and kids in their innocence can be really cruel.
But in this anime ? The classmates are psychopaths with no empathy, the teacher is an incompetent moron and the father an irresponsible asshole.
So the message is... fuck you ?
>teased and picked on in elementary school because I acted autistic
>popular and loads of friends in middle school / hs
fucking two faced normie rats inviting me to their party as if I don't remember when you pushed me off the swing in 3rd grade
Some mental kid kissed another guy, and my friends and I used to make fun of him for being gay.
We made up for it though when some dumb bitches were ripping off the buttons on his jacket and calling him names while he was crying, and we told them to leave him alone. Women are ruthless even in elementary
>implying this isn't boner-inducing, especially with the voices
If you think this is blaming the victims, you're going into this with the wrong mindset. The manga is a very Japanese look at bullying.
In the US and other western countries, for example, those who are seen as uncool and unpopular are fair game for bullies. In Japan, people who break social norms are bullied.
This isn't a story trying to tell you that you can avoid bullying if you communicate better. Nishimiya would have been bullied regardless, because she doesn't fit in. She plays a completely different game to everyone else, and the rules don't work well together.
It's just depressing in general.
>The entirety of Japan genuinely believes that the victims of bullying are at fault for being an ideal target
They have the same stance on mental health, especially for men. Sucks the samurai age is over.
>getting beaten by a girl
Let's be honest if she wasn't in the class this guy would've been bullied to suicide.
Kids are fucking dumb. When I was 8 or 9 I used to be mean to this one kid. He's not retarded or anything, but he's just slow and he stuttered a bit.
I recently googled his name and found his facebook.
He's doing pretty well, with a wife and kids. Somehow it made me feel good.
>"if you don't want to be bullied, learn to communicate better"
That's literally the most honest, realistic message about bullying you can have.
>muh victim blaming
Off to tumblr with you.
There was even this one autist that we had him fight with another autist in a brawl so he could earn some cool kid points from us and have him join the group from time to time.
btw the first anon to say "just be yourself" is a huge fag and should kill themselves
My mother was an early childhood education specialist who instilled me with a sense of values and I often got to be the designated friend for an ADHD kid. I wasn't exactly an angel, but the people my group of friends quarreled with were in other groups equal or above us in social hierarchy and were more than capable of firing back. I always felt a large sense of unease when one of my friends did something I considered infringing on bullying and would lead them away from the situation. Perhaps I did in some sense because I was still an elementary school kid and was no a master of social situations, though. My situation is obviously highly usual, but that's what you deal with when speaking in absolutes.
I never saw it as bulling though, it was a weird kid who we fucked with, and to be fair he did show me his dick in the bathroom witch was gross as fuck
Later I ended up grouped with him and another autist and started to like them a bit
I hit one in the chest as soon as I noticed that, to avoid those feelings friendship
I feel bad about it now, but i did kinda end up as friends with that other autist in high school
>"if you don't want to be bullied, learn to communicate better"
Yes. If you don't clearly say you don't want to be bullied then you'll never see the end f it.
Either "you break and die" or "you break and break them.' That's how its always been.
I always found that shit so hard, bullied kids get shit on so bad and theres really like fuck all they can do
going to the teachers makes it worse, getting angry makes you look like a sperg and really is what they want you to di when they're throwing bits of paper at you or kicking you under the desk, and fighting back doesn't work when its the whole class doing it, you'll just get your ass beat, staying quiet just means they know you're an easy target
honestly most of the time the best choice is just to move schools and hope the kids at the new place like you
the movie represents bullying in japan
though that didn't stop me from having flashbacks to how fucked up my middle school life became when everyone around me realized i was an annoying spergRead about it the parallels are scary.
How often does such a situation happen though? It's usually just a few people bullying. If the bullied shows that he doesn't want to be bullied then the bullies will usually find some easier target. As simple as that. No need to change schools in most cases.
>Either "you break and die" or "you break and break them"
what does this even mean
I mean, telling the kids to stop would only result in them telling her to stop like they would later flat out state.
The film saying that communication is important isn't entirely wrong. I think in most cases even if you can't communicate with the bullies themselves, finding and being in a group yourself often helps. Even if the group doesn't outright protect you from bullies, just the fact of the group makes you a much harder target, as well as providing moral assistance.
>Shota Shouya was mad at Shouko because she never got mad.
Found the autist. He was mad and Shouko because she was inconveniencing everyone. Did you not notice that he only started to bully her after he noticed Ueno complaining to Kawai that she can't take notes in class because she has to help Shouko all the time?
Only 38K BD/DVD first week, Girl und Panzer movie with the same box office figures was at +160K.
pretty often really, the bullied kid will be the one with no friends, and even if the rest of the class isn't joining in, they'll still act cold to the guy (I know I used to). >>157567312 is right really, being in a clique or some breakfast club of other rejects is probably a good thing to help.
>Shota Shouya was mad at Shouko because she never got mad
>He was mad and Shouko because she was inconveniencing everyone
the line between manga and movie is slowly blurring so im not sure of where it's stated but these are both reasons stated by the characters
You mangafags are truly the most retarded creatures around here. It's not even funny anymore.
>a black kid around the house constantly
>a black man shows up
>Ishida's mum literally says he's her daughter's husband
>oh man so confusing what the fuck how would anyone who hasn't read the manga understand who this guy I feel bad for animeonlyfags
What still bothers me to this day is that none of the parents brought their kids to a fucking psychiatrist. If you know that your kid is suicidal, you get him professional help.
Awful. Hardsubbed over the video, the subs were too small, and they were white with no bordering so they were often hard to read. As far as translation quality goes, they're no better or worse than the other ones. Some lines are better, but others are worse (misinterpret what is being said)
So, Koe no Katachi sold over 30 000 BD's and 7,482 DVD's so far.
>Stand up for yourself and the bully will back down
Yeah, and when you actually do, you are the bad one.
I was never really bullied by my classmates since I was good at backtalking, but one day some jackasses from other class decided I'd be a good victim and apparently didn't know what "fuck off" means. One broken nose later I had to deal with a soccer mom who refused to accept that her demon spawn isn't a harmless little angel and a principal who lectured me that I shouldn't resort to violence. When I asked what the hell I was supposed to do then, I got a stock reply "tell teachers". After I pointed out that this didn't do jack shit in the case of some other kid, she just got mad at me. I managed to shut her up only after threatening to report the incident to the superintendent.
Next day I had to deal with little angel's brother's band and I didn't get the living shit beaten out of me only because I pulled out a knife on them.
The fuck? It looked exactly like a fight between a young girl and a boy, minus the hair pulling. There was always hair pulling back in my day. That's why I preferred to cut my hair really really short.
Yes but they are Japanese. Japanese cannot comprehend society being the problem and push it all on the people they victimize. That's normal for them. It's not healthy, it's fine in it's own way because they all just kill themselves when it gets too bad.
The best part is their PSA's for trying to get people to not kill themselves also are trying to guilt them into thinking about how horrible others would feel if they did it.
>Tell the teacher
This is always the greatest fucking joke.
In school they made us sit in a lecture telling us how if we defended ourselves we would still be punished because it did not matter who started the fight.
When asking what the solution was, we were told we were supposed to tell the teacher.
In this same school a fight broke out in the gym and the principal responded and the kids prompted punched him in the face too, only stopping once the cops came.
It's like they are so against the concept of violence because of this zero tolerance bullshit that they want us to be food for shitty delinquents who don't give a shit about the sanctity of life.
I took part in bullying a lot of people all the way to highschool. I wasn't the main perpetrator and i rarely did anything psychical, but i jumped on the bandwagon along with the rest of my gang. Worst part, that even back then, i knew what i was doing was bad. Just couldn't help it and go against the herd. There was that one girl who we bullied constntly throught the whole school for being your typical shy weeb autismo, and it haunts me to this day that i bullied her despite feeling wrong and pitying her at the same time. I can't even muster courage to apologise, and i'm not even sure it's even worth it at this point, it's been almost 8 years, who the fuck cares anymore. Not her, that's for certain.
First of all, psychiatrists do more than just prescribe medication.
Second of all, if you need medication, you also need a professional to tell you what you should take, how much, and when you should stop.
>and fighting back doesn't work when its the whole class doing it, you'll just get your ass beat
Not true. I grew up in the ghetto and went to horrible schools. If I have learned anything it's that nobody will fuck with you if you become dangerous enough that they think fucking with you means a real chance of getting hurt.
This is especially true at affluent schools, which during my sophomore year I had the displeasure of going to.
If an entire class tries to bully you the only thing you need to stop it is fear. If they fear you they will do nothing. It doesn't matter if they think together they all can stop you. If every individual is afraid in doing so that they might be one of the few people you take before you go down they will just leave you alone.
All it takes is the appearance of a disregard for yourself and then they all show themselves for the cowards they are. It made me feel like a king. I could even be a total autismo sperg and get disgusted looks and nobody would do a god damn thing because they all feared me.
The problem with the advice stand up for yourself is that it's sugar coating the problem. It's acting like life is a Saturday morning cartoon where after standing up for yourself virtue will carry you forward.
This is not the case. One does need to stand up for themselves, but they also need to take the steps necessary to make themselves into something to be feared, so there is purpose behind the intent when you do stand up for yourself. If you don't want to be bullied, don't be somebody who can be bullied.
And then play the even funner game of bullying the bullies.
I'm not sure where I sit on this one, but I admit I'm uneducated. Isn't depression, or at least clinical depression actually proven to be a chemical imbalance and not just muh feelings?
The main problem is the way different cultures trea suicide.
The west treats suicide like a horrible thing that you should never do. Until recently it was considered "the coward's way out", although now there is more understanding that it's a mental problem.
In Japan, suicide has traditionally been seen in a different light. Suicide was considered to be the honorable thing to do to redeem yourself for being a failure and stop being a burden on society.
Japan does have a high suicide rate among developed nations
And the leading cause of death of teenagers in Japan is suicide
Korea had the highest rate among developed world and has many similar cultural problems to Japan.
Fuck. You just reminded me of a girl in my elementary school that was just hated for no reason. I remember her yelling and running out of class one day and nobody, not even the teacher did anything.
I talked to her one on one a few times and I talked to her like a normal person then, but I never showed her any sympathy or asked how she felt.
There are indeed many forms of depression that do require medication to combat chemical imbalances in the brain. It doesn't mean you shouldn't also take other forms of treatment, it is very important for a depressed person to have people that care about him that can help.
In some part, yes. But it doesn't CAUSE depression, it makes you more susceptible to it. Medication is intended to be a leg up to get your life on track and create a better lifestyle for yourself, not to "cure" your depression. Even if you aren't depressed anymore due to the medication, you are still going to have low self-esteem and think negatively all the time.
>and i'm not even sure it's even worth it at this point, it's been almost 8 years, who the fuck cares anymore. Not her, that's for certain.
You might be wrong about that. Couldn't hurt to give it a shot.
>Not her that's for certain
Anon, why do you think people would randomly get over traumatic events in their lives during the time of their life when their brain is forming and their entire outlook on life is being crafted...
>Japan does have a high suicide rate among developed nations
>among developed nations
Laughing my ass off at this retard. Suicide is a first world """problem""". Good thing the garbage is taking itself out.
>Suicide was considered to be the honorable thing to do to redeem yourself for being a failure and stop being a burden on society.
That's wrong. Suicide was very wrong for most members of Japanese society and anybody who wasn't a Samurai who committed suicide was doing wrong and going to go to hell.
Ever heard of the replication crisis? Ever heard about how many drugs are no better than placebo yet are still prescribed? Pill popping is the blood-letting of the 21st century.
I still paints the people doing the bullying and ostracizing, including authority figures and parents, in a very negative light, which is more that can be said than most Japanese works.
In fact, if I'm not mistaken, there was originally outrage in Japan from parents groups and other over the original one-shot because how critical it was of society, which threatened its serialization.
What are you even talking about?
The data that person linked demonstrated that if we consider other nations, Japan moves down to 27. How then is it a first world problem?
>those quotation marks
Oh it's just /pol/
>considering third world countries pushes down Japan in ranking
>which means third world countries have a higher rate of suicide
>1st world problem
Where's your guardian? I thought retards of your level had to be supervised.
There is no study proving the effectiveness of ANY antidepressant to date. The effect of antidepressants varies so much from person to person they're practically useless. The FDA only approves them if they're not immediately harmful to most people, not if they're actually doing what they're supposed to be doing.
t. I was on antidepressants for years. None worked at all on me and I did a lot of reading on the subject. I take no more antidepressants now and I am in no worse or better shape than when I was taking them. The most they ever did was inducing somnolence and erectile disfunction. So on average, for me antidepressants weren't useless, they were worse than useless.
>take no more antidepressants now and I am in no worse or better shape than when I was taking them.
Depression-wise, I meant. When you factor in side-effects, like I said, antidepressants were actively harmful for me.
>and I did a lot of reading on the subject
I believe your story, but no offense, "doing your own research" is how we get anti-vaxxers. What kind of research did you do exactly?
This Ishida wouldn't of given a shit if he wasn't bullied back.
This movie filled me with rage rather than feels, her voice was cute though :3. Orange Days did deaf waifu better than anything I've seen yet.
Depression doesn't exist unless you either: eat poorly, sleep poorly, do some crazy drugs or are going through puberty. If you still feel "depressed" then you've either hit your head hard enough to fuck up your head, or it's the natural phase of depression following some tragic event. The latter one will eventually pass, and if it doesn't then it's because you haven't taken enough care of your physical health.
I said I read on the subject, not that I did my own research. I'm not a pharmacologist. I looked at drug effectiveness studies and metastudies for various antidepressants. Most are freely available on PubMed.
>fuck up your head
wow you specifically acknowledge that it's a brain problem in your post and then continue to bait
good post anon
I'm pretty sure you can be depressed because of some innate problems in the brain chemistry (e.g. one person born with a faulty protein that impairs serotonin reuptake will probably suffer from depression), but apart from that chemical imbalances don't pop out of nowhere, lifestyle, life events, basically the whole environment outiside one's self can be and is responsible for that.
Antidepressants are supposed to make you more emotional stable so that you can work out your problems, otherwise you remain stuck in a vicious circle.
Not that guy, but he is right. If you actually do research on most medications prescribed to cure behavior you will see it's a ton of bullshit. For example they gave Adderall to kids as a treatment for ADHD.
That's fine, except Adderall doesn't actually do anything to help ADHD. All it is is weaker meth. They were just giving kids amphetamines to try to regulate behavior. Obviously they saw a behavior pattern change, but if you give kids crack you would too.
Anti-depressants are similar. No anti-depressant actually fixes any hormones you are deficient in or corrects your bodies regulatory system. At most you are just taking what are basically party drugs but on a regular basis to try to regulate yourself by giving yourself dopamine. This is not a cure or even a proper treatment for depression, but if you look at American prescription drug use patterns in makes sense.
The highest selling drugs are ones that deal with emotional problems like "anxiety" but if you actually look at what the drugs they are prescribing are, they aren't curing anything and their treatment is often times just getting the user high to try to make them forget they feel a certain way.
Modern medicine is an amazing thing but the way we try to medicate away mental "disorders" is getting out of hand. If you wanna have a good 4 A.M. go look at Vicodin, what it is, how it was marketed, how it was sold, and the epidemic it caused until it's use had to become heavily regulated. Pharmaceuticals want to get anything in your body that can make them money, they are not ethical in the slightest.
Ueno did nothing wrong
Adderall and Vyvanse works, I can confirm that as I have ADHD.
However the side-effects are too big so I had to stop and now I just try to deal with my mental handicaps as much as possible.
The sigma is there because depressed people are trash. I've known several in the past, and I know that they drag you down with them in one way or another. If you want to be happy, hang out with happy people. If you want to be miserable, hang out with depressed people.
Eh, the stigma sucks but I stopped caring about it after my sucide attempt, getting near death made me realize how meaningless the opinions of literally whos are and that I don't owe anyone any justification for my life and my problems.
>The sigma is there because depressed people are trash.
That's funny coming from you.
You know? You're right. I have the ability to change it. I'm the only one who can save myself because I'm the only one who is me. Because the only people who even remotely care about me do not actually understand me.
But also fuck you. This isn't my fault. I never chose to have shitty ass chemicals in my head and I never chose to live in a world that denies me a proper life because of it.
I changed myself, not because I was in the wrong, but because YOU were. I changed myself to fit in this trash world.
Maybe if you stop kicking down people that the world already sent down on the floor, they could actually stand up
Fuck self-doubt. I'll go down as an arrogant prick, but at least I'll trust the one thing I'll never lose - myself.
And fuck you too. If you can't handle a single misfit in your life, you ain't that strong yourself.
I might be a sort of trash, but I don't unload my negative feelings on people around me to cope with my daily life.
>And fuck you too. If you can't handle a single misfit in your life, you ain't that strong yourself.
But the key is not to be strong. The key is to make your own surroundings as comfy as possible. Having to be strong all the time leads to exhaustion, and that leads to neglecting your health and relationships. And those things lead to depression.
The stigma is there because of the "lol transgender don't exist lmao" meme.
The stigma is there because of the "lol white supremacy don't exist lmao" meme.
The stigma is there because of the "lol racism don't exist lmao" meme.
this is not a very good argument anon
Adderall and Vyvanse work insofar as any stimulant will work to "treat" ADHD. The stimulants have the same effect on everyone, which is why they are such popular illegal drugs.
The problem is you are not treating your ADHD, you are just getting high. Dealing with your mental handicaps is the actual solution to living and managing ADHD.
Source, I have ADHD and have just learned to use hyperfocus to get things done when it comes down to it.
the stigma is there because MENTAL ILLNESS IS INVISIBLE
like holy shit you break your leg and you get a cast and everyone signs it and life's great
but you break your brain and you get fucking pieces of shit like that anon
Brain's the most complex fucking thing we've got in our bodies, i don't know how the fuck you rationalize it never breaking
People I think less of? You mean depressed people? I think those people haven't taken proper care of themselves, and I want them to sort themselves out before trying to befriend me. Once they've fixed themselves I'll gladly get to know them. That's what I mean by comfy: staying away from people with issues. They'll easily start depending on you and unload their shit on you either consciously, or subconsciously through shitty behavior.
Depressed people should avoid other depressed people as well, as their company is a double-edged sword to them. On the other hand they can share their experiences and understand you, but they can also drag you even deeper to the bottom and make the bottom seem like the new normal.
>I'm the only one who can save myself because I'm the only one who is me. Because the only people who even remotely care about me do not actually understand me.
No anon. I said you have the power to change yourself because
I believe in you
Because the point of the conversation is that the medication being prescribed for things is not made to actually treat the things and the FDA's job isn't necessarily to assure that it is, and just that it probably won't kill people.
Unless you are making a meta joke about how I have ADHD
35mm is the best, but uses Sis instead of Nee-san. Nii-sama has errors but uses honorifics. HorribleSubs has typos (confirmed) but supposedly translates less lines compared to 35mm
>For her to magically not be deaf?
Yes. The point of the manga was that normal people (and Japanese society) don't really understand the ones born with disabilities and think that, if they would try hard enough, they would be normal like the rest. They're defectives because they don't try hard enough, not because that's how reality is. Even the mother thought that if she raises her daughter strictly, in time she will become normal. Those people are nuts. In Japan, from what I know from someone who was there, teachers can't even go to a psychologists if they have some problems, needles to say psychiatrist of they have depression. If you do that, you are kicked out immeadiately from teaching because you ,,can't resolve your issues alone, you are not good enough``.
I had a whole class sing a song about me being born a failure
Are you using xysubfilter? I'm using good ol' outdated KCP, so my stuff is out of date, but I never figured out how to add subtitles when you aren't using the built in subtitle renderer in MPC so I just mux the subs onto the video using mkvmergegui if I want to take screenshots with subs that aren't already muxed into the video.
Hello I live around japs a lot and this is how they go about life, it's not specially victim blaming this is just how they function, Japs bring the responsibility for everything that happens in their lives to themselves and they believe each individual has the duty to do so as well. So even if you suffer from a special condition as being mute as Shoko, its her who has to adapt other than the whole society adapting to her, they are just realistic. I know it sounds brutal and cold but thats just how they raise their kids.
It's one of the things that took me longer to accept and understand. I'm a softy and I don't like watching people struggle to fit in the society, but I gotta give it to them, it works and its logical. You cannot bend society around one individual because you'd have to do it for everyone and in the end we wouldn't have a society. It would be chaos.
What Koe no Katachi shows is that even though there are a lot of problems a person must keep their integrity and face them with courage despite of what kinds of barriers life throws at them. And in the end they will be able to find happiness. Take it as you will, but its their culture and way of living, and trying to westernize it is pretty disrespectful imo.
Normies went to see it at the cinema. This is entry level anime for plebs; high production values, pseudo-philosophical overtones and melodrama turned up to 11. Animated Oscar-bait.
I guarantee that the vast majority of the ticket sales went to people who only know KyoAni for Haruhi, if indeed they know them at all.
I'm not really well-versed in the subject either, but I think it has to do with your settings in the Output section.
AFAIK none of the subs out atm do sign language, and from what I remember the anons that watched it in theatre didn't either. I did not watch the movie in theatres myself.
Still doesn't work, I'll try researching for alternatives. I don't watch anime much (only other thing I'm watching this year is Kimi no Na Wa when bluray gets on torrent) so I might move back to VLC.
Ueno reminds me of that girl from fourth grade up til sixth grade.
We always used to crack up jokes and banter like a standup comedian in the class while the teacher is still teaching which always led to the whole class bursting out with laughter and the teacher being mad. Got my parents called by the discipline unit many times. Out of classes, generally she's a bro and she's in my circle of friends.
Graduation came, she said her parents are taking her live abroad so it ended there. She did say she'd want to have fun with me again in the future, though it never happened. Probably wont since I'm literally a NEET now.
Alright got it, had to install MPC-BE newest version to get it to work, and use internal subtitle rendering. Didn't work when I used XySubFilter.
>tfw want to watch the movie again
>don't want to get sick of it
I dunno mate the "be yourself" is what made me less boring as a person and really raised my confidence. Most of my HS years were wasted because I worried too much of what others would think or how I should act. Once you realize most people are fucked up, the freedom of being yourself actually makes life pretty fun and tends to attract like-minded people who you can be friends with, instead of just tolerating.
People like to call Nishimom a terrible mother but you realize she isn't all bad when you realize she was out in the pouring rain looking for Yuzuru.
>you can tell she's trying to think of a way to invite Shouya out
>Everything just gets more stable when Shoko and Ishida (the victims) change.
>So it's as if the author was saying: "if you don't want to be bullied, learn to communicate better".
well, you CAN read the story like this. From a certain point of view Ueno was right, she DID inconvenience others, and disrupt the way everyone interacted. However, that POV is how a selfish child lacking all empathy would think and view the world.
The point of the author PRESENTING that point of view is to lay the foundation for why Shoko wants to KILL herself. See she actually believes she "ruins everything". As someone with zero self esteem, who's been a victim of almost constant bullying she actually believes this, even though in reality the problem is more a lack of empathy.
Meanwhile Ishida has "closed off" communication with the world. He has come to two erroneous conclusions. One, that he DESERVES being the subject of bullying because of what he did to Shoko. Two, that everyone is out to get him. This is a victim complex. His isolation at the start of the story is largely his own doing, as you can see when he starts to reach out to others for shoko's sake and they accept his friendship pretty quickly.
The central problem with the plot isn't that the world was cruel, it was that Ishida wasn't giving the world a chance to talk to him. In the beginning he's shown slowly covering his ears to the world, while he looks down at his feet unable to look people in the eyes (indicated by the X on their face), this indicates Ishida has chosen to close off the world. His whole character arc was learning how to open up to the world, interact with it face on. Shoko's whole arc was much simpler and revolved around her learning to stop blaming herself, to learn she was good enough as she was.
This isn't about punishing bullies. But about two kids learning to grow up and stop being so fucking emo.
Japanese psychology. Basically: depression, anxiety, learning disabilities, etc., were all caused not by physiological or psychiatric issues, but just people "not being tough enough" or not "applying themselves properly".
I became a lot more inclined to blame the victim when she decided to attempt suicide for no good reason.
>MC's skelly comes out of the closet
>people cold-shoulder him
>she doesn't know what the fuck is going on
>but OH WELL MC IS SAD GUESS I'LL COMMIT SUDOKU
I'm glad she got slapped around by Ueno a bit.
>This isn't about punishing bullies. But about two kids learning to grow up and stop being so fucking emo.
first time i've seen someone sum up the plot so succinctly.
>But about two kids learning to grow up and stop being so fucking emo.
The problem is that you, like most anons here, are suggesting that the problem lies in being "emo", not in harassing who is "emo". Yes, being "emo" is bad for the health of those who are "emo", but that does not give other people the right to harass them. Got it?
Nishimiya, despite being a moeblob "emo", never hurt a fly and struggled to adapt, but she still was seen by the school as a villain.
You are forgetting that Ueno told Shouko that part of the blame lies in Shouko's passiveness, and then after the bridge scene Shouya forces himself harder and harder to act happy around Shouko and she tells him he'd be unhappy if he stuck around with her, which just prompted himself to force a smile harder until Shouko broke.
She blamed everything on herself.
>In the beginning he's shown slowly covering his ears to the world, while he looks down at his feet unable to look people in the eyes (indicated by the X on their face), this indicates Ishida has chosen to close off the world
I think I now know why Ueno still had that X on her face long after MC accepted Kawai and Eyebrows and all the rest
>I became a lot more inclined to blame the victim when she decided to attempt suicide for no good reason.
> Deaf in a non-deaf society
> The father left her and her mother because she was deaf
> Being deaf caused problems for the family in relation to society
> Was accused of separating friends from childhood
Her self-esteem must be very tiny, a good reason to want to kill yourself.
I don't remember this wub lub talk in the cinema.
Well, people DO get away with being cunts.
Portraying this in a story doesn't mean you approve of it. A writer doesn't have the obligation to portray the world as it should be.
>She blamed everything on herself
Yeah, but from that to suicide? Usually these situations have the girl abruptly breaking off all ties with the guy, or leaving town/skipping school, or something. I feel like the balcony jump was just the author trying to aim for maximum shock value rather than a rational consequence.
I mean yeah, she was told she's partly to blame and has carried baggage all her life, but things were also getting much better with Ishida and the rest until Kawai pulled the rug from underneath them.
Maybe this manga was 2deep4me
It's funny how people here think that just because the girl is passive and too withdrawn, she deserves to be beaten. It is the duty of the educational system and the health system to help these people. If they can not or, worse, do not, it is not these people's fault, but the incompetence of those systems.
It is similar to the old and well-known logic of rape: if you don't want to be abused, don't wear short clothes.
But again, things were getting better! They were making that movie and all the characters, if not exactly chummy, were at least working together and getting along as best as the circumstances allowed. You could argue the balcony jump was impulsive suicide but in fact if I remember correctly, they were at a fireworks festival and about to have a good time to put that nasty afternoon behind themselves. Why would a girl who dressed up in a nice looking yukata for probably the first time in her life with a guy looking out for her excuse herself partway to go and jump? Fuck I knew I should have taken at least one psych class.
>It is similar to the old and well-known logic of rape: if you don't want to be abused, don't wear short clothes
I think the fuller version of that is: if you don't want to be raped, don't go for a stroll alone in a ghetto wearing short clothes
Stop jumping on people who want to sympathize with the bully side too. Nobody's said that anyone has the right to harass anyone. Kids are just stupid and sometimes take joking too far, and there's no sin in that if they grow up and learn to behave.
>Kids are just stupid and sometimes take joking too far, and there's no sin in that if they grow up and learn to behave
This. Kids can be plain assholes and half the time they don't even realize it, even (or especially) in middle and high school
I always laugh when /a/ throws a shitstorm over what anime characters do.
>THAT MADE NO SENSE, WHY IS SHE SUCH A BITCH CUNT
>this MC is fucking retarded
Of course they're retarded, they're teenagers going through puberty. Let's not even consider the possibility of it being that time of the month.
>people here think that just because the girl is passive and too withdrawn, she deserves to be beaten
I don't believe many think that. This movie was about how human behavior just is what it is, and sometimes you get the short end of the stick and get bullied. No side is completely innocent, and everybody just needs to grow up and learn to cope with each other in a way that doesn't hurt or completely piss off others. Kind of like in real life.
You know, people in this movie(manga) are just too damn calm. If i was there it would have quickly got violent.
As for Ueno, some autistic think she just being honest but in reality, there's a between being honest and being a asshole, if you don't know that then i think i have bad new for you. You have literal autism.
The weak fear the strong, Japan is survival of the fittest.
The weak should be bullied they are not beneficial to Japan and breed weakness.
Look at all the anime fags in Japan that have checked out of society, its a small % compared to western countries hikkimoris and weebs.
Japanese kids walk to school by themselves, their parents literally show them how to get to school once and tell them fucking learn it," i ain't gonna help you if some pedo grabs you, you better fucking learn your way to school you little shit". It teaches independence and problem solving.
>Kids can be plain assholes
but there is always a reason. culture, family, society, etc. after all, the world is not black and white like dragon ball, humans are more than just heroes and villans.
So you've never wanted to bitch slap someone? Ueno clearly was worse at holding back her reactions, and if she ends up hurting someone then she owes an apology. But you have to be a really annoying person if you make someone want to beat you up. Anyone like that should consider getting new friends because it's clearly not working out. If you just stand there and take a beating without fighting back or leaving, then you've deserved it to an extent too (ofc Nishimiya couldn't leave the ferris wheel at that time, but I'm just surprised she chose to hang out with Ueno after that at all).
>The bully is always wrong, that's why he's, well, the bully
One thing I appreciated about this manga is that half of the characters had participated (or were at least complicit) in bullying and they had to develop from there. Most of the time bully characters are poorly written and this doesn't just apply to anime/manga either. At least here we got to see a bit of what mindset they were operating on even if it was horrible.
>Ueno obviously understands Shouko better in the end
>Sahara looks down similar to how Ishida avoids looking at others, which Ishida realizes because he looks at other's faces now and gets all flustered
This movie is so fucking subtle I love it. Really driving that theme of communication in this scene.
Not standing up for herself. Self-hatred. She really hurt her family by trying to 'fix' everything with suicide. It's one of the most selfish and hurtful things a person can do.
She should've sought help better or just actively avoided the people who used to bully her. What kind of a masochist hangs out with their former bullies? I had murder fantasies of my elementary school bullies, I couldn't have imagined doing what she did.
Not him but I would say that while I agree with most of your post, Shoko had to face a ton of shit in her life and that made her more inclined to shrink instead of fight back. In other words it was harder for her to overcome the bunker down attitude than most people.
She fought Ishida that one time in elementary school because it was spread out over a long time, but I imagine she went through some more shit between leaving that school and reuniting with Ishida which made her even more timid.
>Yeah, but from that to suicide? Usually these situations have the girl abruptly breaking off all ties with the guy, or leaving town/skipping school, or something. I feel like the balcony jump was just the author trying to aim for maximum shock value rather than a rational consequence.
>I mean yeah, she was told she's partly to blame and has carried baggage all her life, but things were also getting much better with Ishida and the rest until Kawai pulled the rug from underneath them.
>Maybe this manga was 2deep4me
the manga confused the main theme, the movie brought it out better
A better way would be to look at the fireworks show before shoko's suicide attempt (in the movie). In the show we see all the side characters in the show watching the same fireworks festival and with family/friends. Those people are all physically close to others, in EVERY SINGLE SHOT they're hugging people indicating how close they were and open they were.
Meanwhile shoko and family + ishida are the only people shown not physically touching or even interacting. They're all silently watching the fireworks. Shoko's mom and yuzu both leave, probably to give Shoko and Ishida a chance to talk privately, and neither can be genuine. Ishida is still pretending to be happy, and shoko just gives up. The fireworks scene wasn't meant to be "nice" it was meant to be awkward as all fuck, as two people who should be the closest in the story are shown to be completely unable to communicate with each other honestly. Even the bitch Ueno was linking arms with her family, and here are Ishida and Shoko, not with their families, not with each other. Unable to talk to each other.
~transition to shoko on the balcony~
If you can't understand why Shoko would decide to kill herself at this point in the movie you are a fucking idiot.
I would feel like beating or cursing annoying people like Nagatsuka. But still, I would be wrong. He is inconvenient but not violent. And in the case of Nishimiya is even more absurd because she practically does nothing harmful. And even if I wanted to, it would still be wrong, because violence, physical and verbal, is wrong.
Ueno is a very poor character. She only has one characteristic: being a bitch.