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Is it just me or Koe no Katachi kind of blame the victim?

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I mean, even indirectly. Ueno, Kawai, the teacher, the father, none of these redeems or suffers any punishment for their irresponsible acts. Everything just gets more stable when Shoko and Ishida (the victims) change.

So it's as if the author was saying: "if you don't want to be bullied, learn to communicate better".
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>>157552710
Yes I agree which is why I dislike the series. I also don't think the narrative focused enough on Shouko and her perspective.
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The whole point is focused on how difficult communication is
It doesn't matter if it's fair or not here
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>>157552710
>Japan
>not blaming the victim
And you guys wonder why nips want to die
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>>157552710
Mob mentality. If you go against the current you're wrong. In this case Ishida was the main bully and everyone just went with it. The little shits being kids didn't feel any guilt for their actions. Hell, Ishida wouldn't have cared about her if the the class didn't bully him back. Sure, the teacher was a scumbag, but against children, adults can get away with a lot. Because that's how Japan rolls.

It's a case of nobody being innocent. Only Shouko had any moral rights to blame any of them, but she's also brainwashed with that retarded nip custom of "not being a bother to others". Fucked up.
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>>157552710
>"if you don't want to be bullied, learn to communicate better"
That's literally the Japanese cultural stance on the subject.

The entirety of Japan genuinely believes that the victims of bullying are at fault for being an ideal target, and that if they just communicated better and made friends, they wouldn't be bullied.

It's their version of the American "Stand up for yourself and the bully will back down"
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>>157552710
Absolutely. No-one really apologised for how plain awful they were.

Shit she even had a notebook and didn't ask anyone to learn sign language, fuck her for existing, right?
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Nips suffer from some grade A bullshit mob mentality, if you get bullied there, might as well grab some katana and go to town
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She could have avoided the situation by responding in a different way to his teasing. She made herself a target instead.
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>>157552983
But of course it matters. Communicate well is important, but not an obligation.
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>>157553061
>>157553109
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDTZ7iX4vTQ

As I already said. She brought a fucking notebook, what more do they want? For her to magically not be deaf? Part of it was them being children, but the majority never really came to terms with being a cunt.
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>>157553061
What else can you do though? Sometimes kids are just awful little shits and you gotta beat their ass to make them think twice about messing with you.
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>>157553158
You should not hurt anyone, that's the priority. Say she made herself a target instead it's like saying that a girl in short skirts is asking to be raped. It is stupid.
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>>157553217
I feel ya, there's a limit on how much of a cunt kids and adults can't be but the author had to hammer that shit to fucking 11.
i can't take it, its like slavery or the disregard of personal rights in modern settings, makes my inner white knight mad as hell
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>>157553419
It's not easy to whiteknite a girl under the circumstance though, especially when they're just grade schoolers
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>>157552710
Go back to tumblr.
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>>157552710
it is japan, don't try to understand
they always blame the victim
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>>>/int/
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Bullying is good. It separates the wheat from the chaff. Gold is purified in fire, and iron sharpens iron. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. The strong do what they can, and the weak suffer what they must. The animal kingdom is filled with pecking-orders.

Your whole POV is intrinsically abnormal/pathological
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>>157553266
The world is very coarse and is going to remain that way. Effcient strategies for rising above it are more useful that peddling sympathy and trying to stop such a large system.
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>>157553540
>victim
What is the crime? Bullying is beneficial.
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>>157553643
I didn't knew we were still hunting in africa with stone spears
Face it commie, social norms are dead and individuality rules the world now, every link is a chain and that mindset doesn't work anymore
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>>157553419
>>157553497
Oh entirely. My friends and I have all seethed watching it thinking of how shit school was if you were different.
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>>157553856
>being a degenerate
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>>157553864
I am not a commie. You on the other hand are an imbecile. Humans are social animals. As long as you don't live as a hermit in the middle of nowhere subsisting off the land through your own work, you depend on others for your continued existence.

Ueno was right about literally everything.
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Most of the themes in this movie is explored in a very superficial way. The fact that the MC, who obviously suffered from serious depression, suddenly overcame his suicidal tendencies because his mom yelled at him once is laughable at best. The whole bullying aspect itself wasn't even explored that in-depth. The communication aspect was explored in-depth since that was the central theme but the manga did a far better job in setting up the bullying aspect so that the 2nd half had much more impact.
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>>157553864
>tumblr calling others communists
wew
>>157553913
>wanting to prune out defective individuals is degenerate
no, degeneration comes from accommodating for them. handicapped people should be euthanised.
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>>157554030
>t the MC, who obviously suffered from serious depression, suddenly overcame his suicidal tendencies because his mom yelled at him
That is not the reason. The reason was the unexpected turn his meeting with Shouko took. (a second chance is a lot, what with him picking on Shouko being the reason why he was suicidal in the first place) He literally says that much in a monologue. Maybe you should pay more attention to what you're watching.
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>>157554074
>posting on malasian cave painting board
>upstanding member of society with 2 kids a house and 401k
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>>157554174
He met Shouko before he even attempted suicide. Learn to watch the movie better next time.
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>>157554179
Found the degenerate.
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>>157553419
>its like slavery or the disregard of personal rights in modern settings

So like japan?
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>>157554232
>He met Shouko before he even attempted suicide
Yes, and? His suicide was planned out way ahead of time.
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>Not standing for the right of every individual to be free and live their lives
Only commies approve of bullying
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>>157552710
As with most japanese bully stories, the moral is that the society sucks, the instution sucks, the administration sucks, and the watchdogs don't watch. The message is yes, it's wrong, but things are already so broken and rotten that nobody will come to help you and nobody cares. The moral is about surviving in a bad world you cannot possibly change, instead of pretending it will somehow get better if you just hurt hard enough.
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It wasn't exactly victim blaming but it also did nothing to redeem any of the characters other than ishida. By the end of the movie as far as ueno is concerned she has done nothing wrong. She never apologizes and the group just accepts her because everyone magically got over everything
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>>157552710
Nobody gets what they deserve in the end, and I don't think it intended to portray Ueno/Kawai/etc as doing the right thing. The message was just as much that you can't rely on karma and that nobody is completely empathetic.
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>>157552710
I think the movie isn't blaming anyone. Kind of bold, actually, I like that approach. What I took from it was that bad things will happen, and when they do we shouldn't blame others or ourselves, but learn from our mistakes.
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Kawai is basically me. Not bullying anyone directly but going along with it behind the scenes to fit in.

Still have a hard time not doing that.
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>>157554731
I know everyone likes to meme about Kawai but she was really one of the more interesting characters in the movie.
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>>157554030
His original plan was to apologize to her and kill himself later that day. He didn't intend to befriend her. It shows more in the manga where he's realizing that apologizing isn't enough to make up for everything he's taken from her. While he's asking to be friends, he's even wondering why he's saying this since it puts himself in a position where he can no longer kill himself.
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>>157555110
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>>157554714
>What I took from it was that bad things will happen, and when they do we shouldn't blame others or ourselves, but learn from our mistakes.
Bad things also happen because people make bad choices and these people should take responsibility.
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>>157552710
I'm the victim for watching this terrible movie
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>>157555340
I think learning from our mistakes is a responsible thing to do. Do you read the movie differently?
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>>157552710
I think the author was trying to show how society(Japanese anyway) likes to blame the victim. And how fucking shit it is.
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>>157555406
I think learning from mistakes is important, but did Ueno learn? The teacher learned? It was the victims who did it. And I don't think a deaf girl, who never raised a finger to anyone, made a mistake.
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>>157555408
If that was the intention, the end would have to be more tragic, rather than everyone together and happy.
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>>157555408
This

Most of the things I have been seeing people shit are was the authors intent.
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>>157555340
Not every bad thing someone does has consequences that affect them, and not everyone cares about everything that happens to other people.
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Isn't that the way Japs think ? If something bad happens instead of waiting for holy retribution to fall upon those that are at fault, blame yourself and fix it yourself.
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>>157554397
There is a level of "muh freedom" that is as delusional and ignorant as communism. Well done, you're just as stupid.
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>>157555687
Sounds extremely reasonable and practical, unlike this whole muh blaming the victim special snowflake hysteria.
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>>157552710
Well she did deserve some of it, Ueno rightfully beat the shit out of her for trying to kill herself.
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>>157555512
I wonder about Ueno, at the very least it seems as though she matured a bit at the end I think. Her learning even just the sign for "baka" says quite a bit. I like what you said about Shouko, but I think what she learns in the end is to love herself more. The movie makes her self-loathing pretty clear. Maybe you think that's cheating to call it her "mistake" but again, learning to forgive instead of point fingers seemed to me to be the core theme.
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>>157555512
Ueno learns, it's subtle but by the finale she's making an effort to get along with Shoko. She's taught herself some signing and helps Shoko keep up with the conversation.

Still a bitch but both versions of her are basically positioned to grow for the better going forward. Most of the other characters got screwed in the movie, and Kawai's probably not going to get better in either version.
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>>157555749
It's the way most societies. It's cruel but life sucks anyway.
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>>157555557
Some of it is commentary on the Japanese education system and how unequipped it is to help students with disabilities, and how badly bullying is handled by everyone involved. There aren't big anti-bullying campaigns in Japan like there are in the western world. Teachers may turn a blind eye or just not be invested.

But while there is that commentary there, it's not the main focus of the entire series. It's meant to be a story of hope, change, and redemption.
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>>157555605
But it is the duty of the educational system to prevent and punish bad behavior. And there's the problem: he does not do that.
>>157555586
Yeah, the author says that the system and society blame the victim, but instead of showing the negative consequences of it, she just ignores them, so much that in the end Nishimiya learns to communicate better and becomes "friend" of Ueno, the the girl who hit her, the girl who did not regret anything, the girl who was not punished.
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>>157555749
It's pragmatic, but the SJW view is that not everyone is capable of fixing their own problems.

So then the pragmatists have to decide whether it's worth it to fix the problem at all.
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Leave it to kyoanus fags to over analyze and ruin an already mediocre story
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>>157555852
>But it is the duty of the educational system to prevent and punish bad behavior. And there's the problem: he does not do that.
He did punish bad behavior. He scapegoated Ishida and washed his hands of the matter.
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>>157555880
It's a manga. At least bait properly.
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>>157555850
.It's meant to be a story of hope, change, and redemption
I agree, but my problem is that the change comes mostly from the victim.
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>>157555794
>Her learning even just the sign for "baka" says quite a bit
>>157555800
>Ueno learns, it's subtle but by the finale she's making an effort to get along with Shoko.
True. It does not exist in the manga, but it was a cool, yet naive, detail.
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>>157556151
What do you mean by naive? I liked it because it's like she's beginning to walk the path Shouya did, learning sign language (learning to communicate, listening to others) was one of the first big steps he took.
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>>157556229
I meant from a storytelling point of view. Ueno humiliated Shoko several times, just learning to say "baka" in sign language should not be enough to erase that trauma. But if we consider that Shoko fell in love with Ishida after all, it is clear that the film is "naive" in its entirety.
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>>157556564
>erase

No single action is going to do that. Showing any progress is good, even if it's in the same aggressive way she is with Sahara.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5FmC35GIOk

Thread theme.
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Ueno is right. She hates Nishimiya and bullies her, but she uses it to make an important point about her: Nishimiya won't fight back and just tries to get past confrontations through self-deprecation. She puts on a fake smile and accepts the blame and is only ever seen as a victim. She doesn't call Ueno out on her bullshit. She doesn't fight back. She's always in the "right" since she never does anything wrong, despite nobody's lives improving. Not standing up for herself has not helped anyone. Ishida went as far as he did because Nishimiya never stopped him, and in the process he ended up screwing up his own life.

Ueno and Nishimiya are polar opposites, and Nishimiya needed to learn to develop some self-worth and stand up for herself like Ueno.

This doesn't make any of what Ueno did right, but there's a reason why she's a driving force in the story.
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Back when the manga was just a one shot, there was a lot of controversy surrounding it because people didn't like that it portrayed the Japanese society as cruel to the disabled. They couldn't even publish it as a full series at first because some groups were pushing so hard to get the one shot banned.

That's probably why the full series kind of avoids bringing the issue up more than it has to.
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>>157557213
We are talking about a work that deals with real problems, not a battle shonen. Being depressed is not a choice, it's a consequence. People like that needs help, not punches.
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>>157552710
So you're just now learning that people are bastards and that the world is a cruel unfair place and often unfair place devoid of true justice?
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>>157558919
>Being depressed is not a choice, it's a consequence.

Consequences of what? Choices.

That guy who shot his brains out didn't just end up in that spot independent of his choices.

If you believe in personal responsibility, then someone's condition always lies in part, with themselves.
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>>157553864
>Face it commie
How the hell is he a commie if he believes that?
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>>157553864
>commie
>when what was expressed was literally a hyper-social darwinist position

Extra dumb.
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>>157552710
The strong have the right to do what they want to the weak.
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>>157559148
When you become an adult, you realize you have neiother freewill nor social control in your life.
At best you decide trivial things, but surely not how you deal with the card you didn't choose.
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>>157559390
The weak congregate to devour the strong, by doing so they socially become the strong.
See greek philosophers, please.
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>>157559390
No they don't
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>>157559544
Says weak little you
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>>157559490
The weak only devour each other.
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>>157559453
The story is not only about Ishida's redemption, but Nishimiya overcoming her role as merely a victim. Towards the end when she tries to bring all of Ishida's friends together, she seems very much like her mother, a character whose inner strength was seemingly boundless in the manga, practically to the point that she seems cold to the suffering of her children in the hopes that they will acquire her fierce will. She wanted Nishimiya to attend a normal school so as to strengthen her through hardships, and also didn't want her hair to be long so it couldn't be pulled by bullies. Her husband left her and she worked long hours in a hospital to provide for her two daughters.
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>>157552710
It is blatant.

Ueno spells it out when she gets mad at Shouko for apologizing all the time.

Shota Shouya was mad at Shouko because she never got mad.
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>>157559619
Unless they know that their best option is to destroy their oppressor.

So the oppressor has to convince them that their problems are their own fault.
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>>157559148
>Consequences of what? Choices.
Losing a family member is not a choice. Being raped is not a choice. Losing your job is not a choice. Born deaf is not a choice.

Nishimiya is depressed because she is different and knows that being different, especially in Japan, is very difficult. She was abandoned by her father because of it.
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>>157559719
>So the oppressor has to convince them that their problems are their own fault.

And it works.
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>>157559453
>free will

This is a philosophical concept I don't feel like getting into, but you should read up on compatibilism.

>social control

While most adults don't have the courage to make use of it, they actually have a significant amount of social control over their lives.

>boss is shit
>quit job, find new job
>friend betrays you
>cut contact, find new friends
>family disowns you
>make your own family

While it's true it takes a lot of effort, so we often don't go for these options (i.e. we'll settle for a mildly shitty boss), they are in fact there. Our laziness (or more accurately our subconscious cost-benefit analysis) is the only thing standing between us and creating more satisfactory social conditions.

And if you mean control over others like a king, that comes with living in a free society. I can't control you and you can't control me to such an extent.

Being an adult isn't about giving up and going to a day-job you hate, eeking out a miserable existence that makes you question the utility of introducing your brain to a 12 gauge.
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>>157559390
>>157559490
>>157559619
>>157559719
>>157559778
We're talking about the global elites right?
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>>157559768
And how you react to these things which aren't entirely outside of your control depends on your mindset, which you can influence.

I'm not saying bad things don't happen outside our control, but how we react to them certainly is.

To push everything outside one's self is to make yourself powerless where you would otherwise be able to make a difference.

Instead of improving yourself, changing yourself which is well within your ability, you decide the world needs to change, which won't fucking happen.

Am I saying getting punched is what she needs? No, but letting her know she has agency over herself will go a long way towards her growing up as a member of society that can deal with being treated different and open a few eyes even.

A victim mentality helps no one.
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>>157559934
Whether they are global elites or schoolyard bullies, whatever environment they inhabit, the Alpha are the Alpha.
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OH, SHIT. THE POINT HERE IS THAT NO MATTER IF YOU ARE UGLY, DEPRESSED, ISOLATED, SHY, ANTISOCIAL, GAY, CHANNER, ETC, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO GO TO SCHOOL AND NOT TO BE HOSTILIZED.

THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE MANGA IS KIND OF SAYING THAT WRONG ARE THOSE WHO DO NOT KNOW HOW TO COMMUNICATE OR TO BE MORE SOCIABLE, INSTEAD OF SAYING THAT WRONG ARE THOSE WHO HURT THE THEM BECAUSE THEY DON'T FIT ON THEIR IDEAL OF SOCIETY.
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>>157560093
>A victim mentality helps no one.
Being aggressive does not either. This only works on KnK because it's a melodrama. In real life, aggressiveness only generates two things: the suicide of the victim or the death of the aggressor.
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>>157560234
>THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE MANGA IS KIND OF SAYING THAT WRONG ARE THOSE WHO DO NOT KNOW HOW TO COMMUNICATE OR TO BE MORE SOCIABLE

The manga isn't really saying this. It's just trying to reflect Japanese society.

And even if it was, you saying the whole world has to accommodate the fucking misfits?

The world doesn't run on a victim hierarchy because it rewards being an ineffectual bitch.
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>>157560234
Easy on the shitposting. Either way the theme of "communication" I think is saying that we should seek to understand each other, not just be more sociable. Shouya sees Shouko as an alien (great visual gag with the video game there) and only ever tries to understand her until it's too late.
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>>157560368
>not being an asshole to those who didn't choose their shitty circumstances is "rewarding them"
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>>157560364
>In real life, aggressiveness only generates two things: the suicide of the victim or the death of the aggressor.

The victim always commits suicide from aggression? You mean the aggressor never kills their victim?

Furthermore, aggressiveness always leads to death? Good to know all bar fights end in death. Oh wait, they don't? Huh.

Aggressiveness doesn't equal "everything I don't like."
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>>157560369
>we should seek to understand each other
Again, the problem is that the story ignores the actions of hostile characters like Ueno. So, instead of being punished, Ueno ends up being the voice of reason. She was annoyed because Shouko was an "alien". And beat her because of it. When Shouko learned to communicate, everything got better. So, Ueno, the bully, was right. Nishimiya, the victim, was wrong.

So, once again, it does not matter if I'm an "alien", you have no right to attack me.
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>>157552710
Shouko and Ishida didn't really change. The theme is forgiveness and letting go. The fact that the bullies didn't suffer punishment is the point. There is no divine justice in the real world and rotten people get away with it, you just have to move on and let it go.
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>>157560523
Three things, sorry: more isolation.

And we're talking about aggressiveness directed at people who are sick, depressed, and psychologically unstable.

If you think you can help someone like that by saying "hey, stop being a coward, you asshole", good luck.
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>>157553109
In my shitty third world shithole, if some kid be bullied, they will stab back with a knife. This is why there is very few case of bully here. Think twice before bully someone or it will end up with one stab and you're dead
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>>157560869
>Shouko and Ishida didn't really change.
Of course they've changed. They clearly learned to communicate better and not to hide.
>There is no divine justice in the real world and rotten people get away with it, you just have to move on and let it go.
So remain "friend" of someone who humiliated me and never regretted it valid? Conformism is the answer? Really?
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>>157560475
When did I ever say the society in Koe no Katachi runs on a victim hierarchy? Far from it.

Damn, that's not even a strawman. I don't even know what to call that. I might have to invent a new term for this.

I'm defending Koe no Katachi's society and attacking society's that run on a victim mentality. Not only am I doing the exact opposite to the two, but they are polar opposites, yet you somehow confuse the two?

Please read a book.
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>>157560851
I agree, but at the same time Ueno is hardly portrayed in a positive light. So while she's not "punished" I wouldn't say the movie justifies her actions. I think it's okay to condemn Shouko's inaction (always apologizing, always blaming herself) without saying Ueno's reaction to it was okay.
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>>157561134
*is valid
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>>157561154
Ah, damn there was a not in there.

Societies that run on victim mentalities don't just leave people who are disadvantaged alone, but fucking reward them.

I find it hard to believe there is any perfect neutral state. People will have emotional reactions to things.

So if you don't want bad things happening to disadvantaged people, you'll end up arguing for a victim mentality culture.
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>>157552710

Feels like it's going for a more realistic view on this kind of bullying stuff, it's often true that people who bullied when they were kids grow up to not really care about it or have it affect them, especially considering how, at least in earlier generations up until around the early 2000's, it was pretty hard to get teachers to deal with bullying effectively.

In the end, it was the victims who had to change, to become more resilient and stand up against bullies, otherwise nothing would really change.

"Kill them with kindness" doesn't really apply to kids or even young teens, mainly because they just have a lesser sense of guilt or conscientiousness that most adults do.
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>>157552710
nip culture; fuck special snowflakes
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>>157554603
The entire Ueno acceptance completely blew my mind. How she was not excommunicated from the group after the evidence of abuse and assault on the ferris wheel from the recording is beyond me.
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>>157560234
welcome to 21st century motherfucker, its either get killed, bullied, harassed or be one of them.
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>>157562070
That was like not the point of the movie at all though.
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>>157562070
>be bullied and harassed
>bully turned outcast offers olive branch
>small friend group forms

Yeah no, I don't think that was the message.
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>>157552710
that's not what it was saying, retard
>>
If there were guns in Japan, there'd probably be more mass shootings than 'murrica because of how much bullying there is.

If I was Shouya I would snap and bring a carbine to school, before offing myself.
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Cmon now, We all know who the real bully was
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>>157562282
no because that shit would ruin your life, bullying works because it's a group doing shit that is relatively minor/not a crime
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>>157561666
>>157554603
She's a cunt, she knows she's a cunt. She also was the only one who called everyone else out for being cunts. That's why they really couldn't say much about her because everyone but the deaf girl, and the one who tried to be a friend but was a coward, was a cunt. Her trying to sign at the end was her apology.
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>>157562283
God, I hated that fucking jerk, real worst boy
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>>157562282
you are probably gonna die there because of your edginess.
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>>157552710

I was just surprised with how well Kyoani adapted the source material, trimming the bullshit about the moviemaking.

The story should be told from Shouko's perspective, or even better, have the characters switch genders. Shouko doesn't even feel like a character, she's just a cardboard cutout watching things happen around her with no agency whatsoever.
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>>157561154
>ranting like a fucking retard against a post he didn't understand.

It's okay, we can help you.
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>>157562283
should've been in the movie
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>>157562676
> watching things happen around her with no agency whatsoever.

Wasn't that the problem that they pointed out that she had? That she was too passive and needed to gain a sense of self worth and agency so that she could deal with her problems?

Also, I think that assessment might be a little harsh anyway, mainly considering that the people around Shouko were had much louder personalities, it's not surprising that the deaf girl with horrible social skills seems quieter by comparison.
>>
at the end they were all friends and I couldn't care less. they all should have owned up to it and just made peace with that. you can probably smell the cancer emanating from that group of characters
>>
>>157562720
Mashiba character was useless without this scene in the movie
>>
>>157562716
>ignores the correction

You're not even trying.

>>157562756
People who are at a disadvantage have to work harder than their peers just to keep up.

It's not harsh, it's realistic.
>>
>>157552710
No, it's that the victim always blames him/herself.
>>
>>157552710
It is not as much blame as "the best way you can deal with being bullied is sucking it up" mentality. The only guy who tried to fight the bully straightforwardly was portrayed as misguided and somewhat warped in the head.
>>
>>157562899
>shining that people won't give him a chance to fix his failures
Sorry, I won't reward this victim mentality.
>>
>>157554232
I don't follow your argument. Please elaborate.
>>
>>157563113
You have to work harder to understand the argument. That's not harsh, that's realistic.
>>
Does she love singing? That choir and karaoke scene, it seems she loves singing despite her condition
>>
>>157563330
She may just like making music in general, she's just tone-deaf when singing. She played with those bells as a kid.
>>
>All those Maria scenes

Animated Maria is 2cute4me
>>
>>157556564
>>157556229
Even in the manga Ueno and Shouko were helping each other to get their outfits right in the final chapter.

Plus they're all going to Tokyo
>>
>>157562756
>Wasn't that the problem that they pointed out that she had? That she was too passive and needed to gain a sense of self worth and agency so that she could deal with her problems?

Yeah but in the end we don't see this happening either. She just goes back to following after Ishida and his friends. What bothers me the most is that she doesn't have a life outside of orbiting around him. Her only hobby is feeding fish, jesus, even her sister is a more complex and interesting character.
>>
best husbando
>>
>>157563800
Anime-onlys must have been really confused by this.
>>
>>157563844
What's confusing about it?
>>
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>>157563800
>tfw going to Brazil to fug bitches and trannies and coming back to your waifu and daughteru in japan once a month to show support
>>
>>157563844
being fair, he was also odd in the manga
>>
>>157563931
He just shows up in the intro without any context and isn't talked about for the rest of the movie.
>>
>>157562283

To put in that scene they'd have to include the whole film making subplot which was contrived as fuck.
>>
>>157563966
Anyone who isn't a dummy will realize he's the father of the black kid.
>>
I wouldn't mind if Ueno bullied me.
It just means deep down she has feelings for me.
Also the hatefuck afterwards would be incredible.
>>
>>157553856
Not in the digital age when it can haunt you for all eternity.
>>
>>157552710
That's exactly because Ueno and co. did NOTHING wrong. It was Shouko and her mother's fault for letting her enroll in that school when she knew her child was deaf.
>>
>>157564230
nigga fuck you and your victim blaming
>>
>>157564249
>victim blaming
What? Shouko is a faker dude. She knows that people are weak to silent girls.
>>
>>157564230
Uhhh, no. I mean, yes, her mother is retarded, and I don't know if that's just a Japan thing or an anime thing, but to say that they did nothing wrong is fucking retarded.
>>
>>157564271
Wtf, I hate Shouko now
>>
>>157562283
He kinda has a point, but let's not forget that the teachers were responsible for some of those troubles themselves. Remember how they were against letting Shoko sing until a stupid teacher with a vagina decided it'd be bad to exclude her?
>>
The first thing I read about the movie back in September was that it replaced plot points, exposition and monologues from the manga with visual symbolism and artsy direction so I knew exactly what to expect. A lot of its finer storytelling was done through non-verbal communication, split-second imagery and audio sensory experimentation that really made it into a different story from the manga altogether as it produced a visual representation of hearing and lack thereof. Most of all I felt from the opening song that this film was a stylistic encapsulation of contemporary Japanese cinema and our generation in popular culture today. I felt the song was a reflection of globalization weaving together Eastern and Western aesthetics,Yamada's influences in art.
>>
>>157564230
>>157564271
t. Ueno
>>
>>157564309
Not really. Ueno hinted a lot to Shouko that they don't like her. She didn't even tell her that directly when they were kids because she didn't want to hurt Shouko's feelings, yet Shouko remained oblivious and still tried to be friends with them.
>>
>>157552710

This is one of the biggest flaws apparent in the movie. An almost complete absence of character development from Nishimiya or even trying to tell any of the story from her own point of view. It skews the perception of the viewer that she's a mere moeblob and helpless damsel subject to bullying where in the manga we see more of her emotions and thoughts - even a possible different narrative where she fights back.

Koe o Katachi was a good movie but because it skips out of so many different characters backgrounds and development as individuals the very portrayal of so many personalities gets warped completely making them appear much shallower than what they really are.
>>
>>157564373
>didn't want to hurt Shouko's feelings
>just talks behind her back and insults anyone who tries to be her friend
Hm.

By the way, how is "talking behind someone's back" supposed to be a signal to stay away from them, anyway? Unless the person who does intentionally makes it so that the subject of the bullying knows the source, it doesn't signal shit. This is just Ueno doing a post-facto rationalization of her shitty behavior
>>
>>157564517
I was in the manga threads and there were many posters calling her a moeblob mary sue so I'm not so sure about that.
>>
>>157564574
>didn't want to hurt Shouko's feelings
>just talks behind her back and insults anyone who tries to be her friend
Exactly. If she wanted to hurt Shouko's feelings, she would have just wrote on her notebook.
You're just blaming Ueno because your precious Donald Duck got bullied by Ishida, got away with it, and is now probably fucking her right now.
>>
>>157564631
Ueno is THIS butt blasted from losing to Shouko.
>>
>>157561042
in my actually quite pleasant third world shithole, if the bullied kid can't stab the bully, their friends or family or someone who live near the bullied kid would. and then the family, friends and people who live near the dead bully will fight back. And then war between neighborhood happens. it's fun
>>
>>157564713
>Shouko only won because Ishida felt guilty
If she didn't enroll in the school, Ishida and Ueno would have been a cute couple because they ACTUALLY have personalities. Unlike Shouko who's undeniable the blandest character in the story.
>>
Should have been a series rather than a movie, too many things were cut off and made it hard to understand. Also Ueno was less of a bitch in the movie really wanted to see her hole up in the hospital room.
>>
KyoAni did a really good job condensing the series into a 2 hours movie. It's unavoidable that a lot of material would be excluded but they did a good job including the core of story and executing it in a way that felt natural. A lot better than I expected.
>>
after reading the manga, i just labeled this as another "cute girl gets away with anything because shes a cute girl"

like ya she got bullied but she's clearly emotionally unstable and is basically impossible to communicate with even for her sister. no one in their right mind would actually want to pair off with her except virgin weab readers who give her a pussypass because shes cute

im not saying ishida is any better since he seems like a fuckhead with anger issues, though.
>>
>>157564631
It's exactly the case that Nao did everything she could to make Shouko's life horrible without any regard for the feelings of Shouko or Sahara Miyoko, yes.
>>
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>>157564631
>Donald Duck
>>
>>157564904
I mean like damn, Nao blames Shouko for making it awkward between herself and Sahara when it was Nao who went out of her way to bully Sahara in the first place. You've got to do some fucking logic loops to even begin to think that's justified.
>>
>>157561042
In my shitty third world shithole, if some kid be bullied, there's a chance they'll retaliate with a school shooting. But there are still many case of bully here. Think twice before bully someone or it will end up with one bullet and you're dead
>>
>>157564786
when she's shown to be more short tempered in the manga I seriously thought it was meant to be comedic
>>
>>157564736
sounds just like your regular Moslem neighborhood
>>
The moral of the story is that human beings are scum and each and every one of them deserves to be slowly fed into a meat grinder feet first.
>>
>>157564800
While the last 20 or so minutes of the movie felt super rushed the manga currently feels like it's cluttered with dumb anime tropes like the film project and shoya's teen edge phase.
>>
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Kids are little fucking demons.
>>
>>157561042
>>157564963
The fuck? What country?
>>
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>>157565098
Not sure what the point of webming this is desu but w/e
>>
Ueno did nothing wrong
>>
>>157565215
Except for talking shit about Shouko, which encouraged the bullying.
>>
>>157565215
I would hate fuck her.
>>
>>157564309

Didn't the manga dwelve deeper into why Shouko went to Ichida's school? Like she wanted to while her mother was against it the whole time?
>>
Koe no Katachi subtitle guide:

35mm >= Nii-sama > HorribleSubs
>>
>>157564517
where in the manga does she get this extra development? 40 chapters in and still nothing significant
>>
>>157565311
Who did horriblesubs? How was it?
>>
What did they mean with this shot?
>>
>>157565352
Source for subs and video/audio was Amazon UK web stream. I haven't watched HS rip.
>>
>>157564359
link to article or whtaever? I thought the manga was really stretched thin.
>>
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>>157565342

Nowhere. The movie skipped some extra scenes between Shouko and her mother when they were kids and that's it. She's just as devoid of any motivation and goals as she is in the movie.
>>
>>157565451
>ywn eat cereal with nishimiya
>>
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>>157565492
>>
>>157563966
they say her husbands away and the kids black, so it really wasn't a massive shock
>>
>>157565392
She started compensated dating and doesn't know how to not act like a whore.
>>
>>157565640
Delet this
>>
>>157565451
considering shoya is the protagonist I'm really not bothered by the exposition dumps that made up every other character's motivations
>>
Seriously though, what was this guy's problem?
>>
But seriously.

Who here didn't actually bullied someone back in elementary days? I'm sure we all had that same kid with autism that we used to bully everytime.
>>
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Cute girl
>>
>>157565739
His father works 80 hours a week so is never seen and his mother is an unstable cunt who beats him.
>>
>>157565762
Ueno pls
>>
>>157565762
there was some kid nobody talked too, but that was because he was a cunt, otherwise I never gave shit to anyone.
>>
The fight scene when they were younger feels like some kind of kinky sex instead of the violent release of pent-up stress that was portrayed in the manga
>>
>>157565762
I sure as fuck didn't. If I didn't like somebody I would just leave them alone. Particularly after elementary school, bullying just gets more uncool and pointless the older you get. I have a hard time relating to bullying stories just because leaving people alone was the preferred strategy for effectively everyone.
>>
>>157565762
Me. And I'm not enough cunt to be bother others when you yourself have your hands full. And don't give me bullshit about "If you haven't bullied people, then you're the one who was bullied", things don't go binary that way. Some people do respect others and even if they don't, they won't try shit that won't harm others.
>>
>>157565840
you should probably take a break from 4chan, anon...
>>
>>157565762
I don't know if you'd call it bullying but I always tease kids and crack up funny jokes about them and make the whole class laugh.
>>
>>157565762
I didn't do anything that bad but I would always fuck with the autistic kids to see their reactions. Not bullying really just winding them up.
>>
>ywn bully someone with Ueno
>>
ITT Its a dark world out there
>>
>>157565762
I never did it, but I was the one who was bullied because I acted extremely autistic, to the point where my teacher asked my parents to undergo a diagnosis for it (which never happened).

Elementary school was pretty much just excluding me from events
Middle school was people making me fall down the stairs repeatedly and getting bruises, getting beat up 24/7
High school was pretty chill actually, people left me alone because I didn't bother them

Koe no Katachi is the only manga which helped me to let go of the past actually.
>>
>>157566023
>I'm not bullying I'm just rustling and roughing the up, they'll teach em', those lowlifes of society!
>>
>>157566023
>I would always fuck with the autistic kids to see their reactions

You're one of them.
>>
>>157565928
t. that one retarded kid that never got that people were taking the piss out of him
>>
>>157555110
>>157555196
What the fuck, this scene is completely different in the original manga compared to the anime movie. In the movie, Ishida never says "I can't beleive you said something so embarassing with a straight face!!".
>>
>>157552710
>>>/tumblr/.
>>
>>157566132
what's "tumblr"?
>>
>>157565766
Is that Kawai with the fat kid?
>>
>>157566141
That's the best you could come up with?
>>
>>157566041
>High school was pretty chill actually, people left me alone because I didn't bother them
This is really what high school is like mostly everywhere. It's crazy that most media obsesses over high school bullying when the real shit happens in middle school and younger.
>>
I think a lot of people here are equating the bullies not getting any comeuppance with victim blaming: apart from Ishida none of them got what they deserved, but their actions are not condoned either.
As for why Ueno and Kawai weren't told to fuck off from the group, as a former bully Ishida probably thought he was not in the position to judge, while Shouko just didn't care.
>>
>>157566053
Didn't want to teach them anything. Just having a bit of fun.

>>157566056
Now I am but I used to be pretty normal as a kid.
>>
>>157566221
Shouya is on point about Kawai, that person is totally enamored with herself. Those two-faced, crocodile-tears types make me seethe like no one else can.
>>
This thread is full of bullies alright. I had so much fun beating the shit out of your kind back in high school.
>>
>>157566275
Had to find something to do with a whole 0 friends huh?
>>
>>157552710
A real pity, there could've been a nice message about disability and how you need to help yourself first and foremost before expecting others to adapt to your problem.
Like if this was simply getting ignored by your class, your teacher getting slightly annoyed at having to deal with your problems, your parents being stressed by the reality of having a disabled kid, it could've worked as a story where the protagonist finally gets out of her own misery and learns that people are far more accepting if you're the first one to make an effort.
This actually happens often in bullying with kids, very often it's really just their way of communicating with someone they don't understand how to deal with, and kids in their innocence can be really cruel.
But in this anime ? The classmates are psychopaths with no empathy, the teacher is an incompetent moron and the father an irresponsible asshole.
So the message is... fuck you ?
>>
>>157552710

what the hell are you talking about? The manga spend the entirety of its existence on a person hating himself for bullying others.
>>
What do people see in Ueno?
>>
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>>157566041
>teased and picked on in elementary school because I acted autistic
>popular and loads of friends in middle school / hs

fucking two faced normie rats inviting me to their party as if I don't remember when you pushed me off the swing in 3rd grade
>>
>>157566409
Rape material.
>>
>>157566409
Wife
>>
>>157565762
Some mental kid kissed another guy, and my friends and I used to make fun of him for being gay.

We made up for it though when some dumb bitches were ripping off the buttons on his jacket and calling him names while he was crying, and we told them to leave him alone. Women are ruthless even in elementary
>>
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>>157565932
>implying this isn't boner-inducing, especially with the voices
>>
>>157552710
If you think this is blaming the victims, you're going into this with the wrong mindset. The manga is a very Japanese look at bullying.

In the US and other western countries, for example, those who are seen as uncool and unpopular are fair game for bullies. In Japan, people who break social norms are bullied.

This isn't a story trying to tell you that you can avoid bullying if you communicate better. Nishimiya would have been bullied regardless, because she doesn't fit in. She plays a completely different game to everyone else, and the rules don't work well together.

It's just depressing in general.
>>
>>157566478
She didn't stop and even decided to follow up after he fell.
>>
>>157553061
>The entirety of Japan genuinely believes that the victims of bullying are at fault for being an ideal target
They have the same stance on mental health, especially for men. Sucks the samurai age is over.
>>
>>157566478
I got a boner
>>
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>>157566501
>getting beaten by a girl
Let's be honest if she wasn't in the class this guy would've been bullied to suicide.
>>
>>157566478
All I see is a bright future in MMA.
>>
Japs love to crank up the drama to stupid and unreasonable levels in their mangos and animus
>>
>>157566543
>she's silent
>she's relentless
>she's the screaming avenger
>she might now have a voice but she will make sure you'll make up for both of you
>>
Kids are fucking dumb. When I was 8 or 9 I used to be mean to this one kid. He's not retarded or anything, but he's just slow and he stuttered a bit.
I recently googled his name and found his facebook.
He's doing pretty well, with a wife and kids. Somehow it made me feel good.
>>
>>157552710
>"if you don't want to be bullied, learn to communicate better"
That's literally the most honest, realistic message about bullying you can have.

Also
>muh victim blaming
Off to tumblr with you.
>>
>>157565783
>>157565881
>>157565928
>being in denial
EVERYONE in elementary school with a group of friends bullied someone anon. That's just how it works.
>>
God, I'd so much rather have waifufags than you people.
>>
>>157566677
>waifufags
>>
>>157566664
This.

There was even this one autist that we had him fight with another autist in a brawl so he could earn some cool kid points from us and have him join the group from time to time.
>>
>>157552710
>"if you don't want to be bullied, learn to communicate better".
glad you understand
>>
>>157566738
ellis?
>>
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btw the first anon to say "just be yourself" is a huge fag and should kill themselves
>>
>>157566664
My mother was an early childhood education specialist who instilled me with a sense of values and I often got to be the designated friend for an ADHD kid. I wasn't exactly an angel, but the people my group of friends quarreled with were in other groups equal or above us in social hierarchy and were more than capable of firing back. I always felt a large sense of unease when one of my friends did something I considered infringing on bullying and would lead them away from the situation. Perhaps I did in some sense because I was still an elementary school kid and was no a master of social situations, though. My situation is obviously highly usual, but that's what you deal with when speaking in absolutes.
>>
>>157566664
I never saw it as bulling though, it was a weird kid who we fucked with, and to be fair he did show me his dick in the bathroom witch was gross as fuck

Later I ended up grouped with him and another autist and started to like them a bit I hit one in the chest as soon as I noticed that, to avoid those feelings friendship

I feel bad about it now, but i did kinda end up as friends with that other autist in high school
>>
>Only sold 7,000 copies on BD/DVD

Embarrassing. Kizumonogatari has been selling 40,000 each release.
>>
>>157552710
Welcome to Japan, where is you don't follow whatever everyone else is doing it's all your fault if you ge abused. This is the part of Japan that absolutely sucks.
>>
>>157566533
And /a/ is back to its normal self. Thanks for the thread anons.
>>
desu you should anons should play persona 5 if you want to know more about how fucked up of a country japan is
>>
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>>157552710
>"if you don't want to be bullied, learn to communicate better"

Yes. If you don't clearly say you don't want to be bullied then you'll never see the end f it.
Either "you break and die" or "you break and break them.' That's how its always been.
>>
>>157566951
Please don't bully me thank you
>>
>>157565762
Got bullied in the first years of elementary school, then made friends and bullying stopped. Middle school was chill as fuck, no bullying anywhere, high school was the same.
>>
>>157566951
I always found that shit so hard, bullied kids get shit on so bad and theres really like fuck all they can do

going to the teachers makes it worse, getting angry makes you look like a sperg and really is what they want you to di when they're throwing bits of paper at you or kicking you under the desk, and fighting back doesn't work when its the whole class doing it, you'll just get your ass beat, staying quiet just means they know you're an easy target

honestly most of the time the best choice is just to move schools and hope the kids at the new place like you
>>
Gimme some ueno doujins
>>
>>157554603
>By the end of the movie as far as ueno is concerned she has done nothing wrong
But Ueno literally has done nothing wrong.
>>
>>157566293
the movie represents bullying in japan though that didn't stop me from having flashbacks to how fucked up my middle school life became when everyone around me realized i was an annoying sperg Read about it the parallels are scary.
>>
>>157566083
It was clear enough in the film as well. I never read the manga and understood his reason for not going through with killing himself. Maybe you have autism.
>>
>>157567123
How often does such a situation happen though? It's usually just a few people bullying. If the bullied shows that he doesn't want to be bullied then the bullies will usually find some easier target. As simple as that. No need to change schools in most cases.
>>
>>157566951
>Either "you break and die" or "you break and break them"
what does this even mean
I mean, telling the kids to stop would only result in them telling her to stop like they would later flat out state.
>>
>>157559453
Why do you complain about bullying then?
>>
>>157567225
>>157567123
The film saying that communication is important isn't entirely wrong. I think in most cases even if you can't communicate with the bullies themselves, finding and being in a group yourself often helps. Even if the group doesn't outright protect you from bullies, just the fact of the group makes you a much harder target, as well as providing moral assistance.
>>
>>157566698
What media player are you using?
>>
>>157567330
Usual one /a/ uses. MPC
>>
>>157559692
>Shota Shouya was mad at Shouko because she never got mad.
Found the autist. He was mad and Shouko because she was inconveniencing everyone. Did you not notice that he only started to bully her after he noticed Ueno complaining to Kawai that she can't take notes in class because she has to help Shouko all the time?
>>
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Only 38K BD/DVD first week, Girl und Panzer movie with the same box office figures was at +160K.
>>
>>157567225
pretty often really, the bullied kid will be the one with no friends, and even if the rest of the class isn't joining in, they'll still act cold to the guy (I know I used to). >>157567312 is right really, being in a clique or some breakfast club of other rejects is probably a good thing to help.
>>
>>157562676
>I can;t read between the lines, the post
Why are mangafags so autistic?
>>
>>157567379
>>157559692
>Shota Shouya was mad at Shouko because she never got mad
>He was mad and Shouko because she was inconveniencing everyone
the line between manga and movie is slowly blurring so im not sure of where it's stated but these are both reasons stated by the characters
>>
>>157563966
>>157563844
You mangafags are truly the most retarded creatures around here. It's not even funny anymore.

>a black kid around the house constantly
>a black man shows up
>Ishida's mum literally says he's her daughter's husband
>oh man so confusing what the fuck how would anyone who hasn't read the manga understand who this guy I feel bad for animeonlyfags
>>
>>157564249
Go back to tumblr. Bullying is just.
>>
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GOAT Soundtrack
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvqaiyqMwqs
>>
>>157564517
Did we even watch the same film?
>>
>>157563800
Is that /ourguy/ Pedro?
>>
>>157564786
I haven't read the manga and had no problem understanding the film. Maybe you're retarded or/and autistic.
>>
>>157552710
What still bothers me to this day is that none of the parents brought their kids to a fucking psychiatrist. If you know that your kid is suicidal, you get him professional help.
>>
>>157567568
Literally not how Japan works, or any east Asian country.
>>
>>157567568
Psychiatrists are an American hoax.
>>
>>157567527
I could listen to it all day
https://youtu.be/rSn1M0hVf6E
>>
>>157565352
Awful. Hardsubbed over the video, the subs were too small, and they were white with no bordering so they were often hard to read. As far as translation quality goes, they're no better or worse than the other ones. Some lines are better, but others are worse (misinterpret what is being said)
>>
>>157567587
You're confusing armchair psychologists with psychiatrists.
>>
>>157565762
I got bullied a lot until I figured out how to fight back and I bullied other kids in turn too.
>>
>>157567603
>giving pill salesmen any credit at all
>>
So, Koe no Katachi sold over 30 000 BD's and 7,482 DVD's so far.

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2017-05-23/japan-animation-blu-ray-disc-ranking-may-15-21/.116467
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2017-05-23/japan-animation-dvd-ranking-may-15-21/.116468
>>
>>157553061
>Stand up for yourself and the bully will back down
Yeah, and when you actually do, you are the bad one.

<blogshit>

I was never really bullied by my classmates since I was good at backtalking, but one day some jackasses from other class decided I'd be a good victim and apparently didn't know what "fuck off" means. One broken nose later I had to deal with a soccer mom who refused to accept that her demon spawn isn't a harmless little angel and a principal who lectured me that I shouldn't resort to violence. When I asked what the hell I was supposed to do then, I got a stock reply "tell teachers". After I pointed out that this didn't do jack shit in the case of some other kid, she just got mad at me. I managed to shut her up only after threatening to report the incident to the superintendent.
Next day I had to deal with little angel's brother's band and I didn't get the living shit beaten out of me only because I pulled out a knife on them.

</blogshit>
>>
>>157567429
FlopAni.

No it was definitely a big success though, anything they do is a big success even if it sold 3000 discs because they actually invested their own money.
>>
>>157565840
The fuck? It looked exactly like a fight between a young girl and a boy, minus the hair pulling. There was always hair pulling back in my day. That's why I preferred to cut my hair really really short.
>>
>>157567648
Fuck you, psychiatrists save lives.
>>
>>157565762
autismos get what they deserve.
>>
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>>157566542
But that's what happened?
>>
>>157552710
Yes but they are Japanese. Japanese cannot comprehend society being the problem and push it all on the people they victimize. That's normal for them. It's not healthy, it's fine in it's own way because they all just kill themselves when it gets too bad.

The best part is their PSA's for trying to get people to not kill themselves also are trying to guilt them into thinking about how horrible others would feel if they did it.
>>
I love these threads where people generalise massively about another culture they've never actually experienced besides through entertainment media.
>>
>>157567679
the medication sure does
>>
>>157567651
>Tell the teacher

This is always the greatest fucking joke.

In school they made us sit in a lecture telling us how if we defended ourselves we would still be punished because it did not matter who started the fight.

When asking what the solution was, we were told we were supposed to tell the teacher.

In this same school a fight broke out in the gym and the principal responded and the kids prompted punched him in the face too, only stopping once the cops came.

It's like they are so against the concept of violence because of this zero tolerance bullshit that they want us to be food for shitty delinquents who don't give a shit about the sanctity of life.
>>
>>157567694
Americans kill themselves too.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2846279/Teen-bullied-death-commits-suicide-years-verbal-physical-abuse-classmates.html
>>
>>157567722
Considering Japs generalize about it about themselves because it's how it is thinking that's how it isn't isn't far off base.
>>
>>157567759
faggot
>>
>>157567734
People around the world kill themselves. Now look up suicide statistics. Certain groups in certain places have higher suicide rates. That is the problem.
>>
>>157566083
It's not different in what it conveys where it matters at all. It's just understated in the film while in the manga it's spelled out to you.
>>
>>157567429
>Movie grossed +2 billion yen
>Not even 100K blu-ray sales

What were wrong?
>>
>>157567775
No bully.
>>
>>157565762
I took part in bullying a lot of people all the way to highschool. I wasn't the main perpetrator and i rarely did anything psychical, but i jumped on the bandwagon along with the rest of my gang. Worst part, that even back then, i knew what i was doing was bad. Just couldn't help it and go against the herd. There was that one girl who we bullied constntly throught the whole school for being your typical shy weeb autismo, and it haunts me to this day that i bullied her despite feeling wrong and pitying her at the same time. I can't even muster courage to apologise, and i'm not even sure it's even worth it at this point, it's been almost 8 years, who the fuck cares anymore. Not her, that's for certain.
>>
>>157567731
First of all, psychiatrists do more than just prescribe medication.
Second of all, if you need medication, you also need a professional to tell you what you should take, how much, and when you should stop.
>>
Best girl
>>
>>157567778
Students have lower suicide rates than adults in Japan. Today Japan is not ranked in the top 10.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
>>
>>157567731
>>157567850
>using medication to solve mental problems
It's bad enough teenagers keep pushing the "I have a chemical imbalance so it's not my fault I'm depressed!" narratives.
>>
>>157567123
>and fighting back doesn't work when its the whole class doing it, you'll just get your ass beat

Not true. I grew up in the ghetto and went to horrible schools. If I have learned anything it's that nobody will fuck with you if you become dangerous enough that they think fucking with you means a real chance of getting hurt.

This is especially true at affluent schools, which during my sophomore year I had the displeasure of going to.

If an entire class tries to bully you the only thing you need to stop it is fear. If they fear you they will do nothing. It doesn't matter if they think together they all can stop you. If every individual is afraid in doing so that they might be one of the few people you take before you go down they will just leave you alone.

All it takes is the appearance of a disregard for yourself and then they all show themselves for the cowards they are. It made me feel like a king. I could even be a total autismo sperg and get disgusted looks and nobody would do a god damn thing because they all feared me.

The problem with the advice stand up for yourself is that it's sugar coating the problem. It's acting like life is a Saturday morning cartoon where after standing up for yourself virtue will carry you forward.

This is not the case. One does need to stand up for themselves, but they also need to take the steps necessary to make themselves into something to be feared, so there is purpose behind the intent when you do stand up for yourself. If you don't want to be bullied, don't be somebody who can be bullied.

And then play the even funner game of bullying the bullies.
>>
>>157567901
I'm not sure where I sit on this one, but I admit I'm uneducated. Isn't depression, or at least clinical depression actually proven to be a chemical imbalance and not just muh feelings?
>>
>>157567878
The main problem is the way different cultures trea suicide.
The west treats suicide like a horrible thing that you should never do. Until recently it was considered "the coward's way out", although now there is more understanding that it's a mental problem.
In Japan, suicide has traditionally been seen in a different light. Suicide was considered to be the honorable thing to do to redeem yourself for being a failure and stop being a burden on society.
>>
>>157567878

Japan does have a high suicide rate among developed nations

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-33362387

And the leading cause of death of teenagers in Japan is suicide

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-34105044

Korea had the highest rate among developed world and has many similar cultural problems to Japan.
>>
>>157567838
Fuck. You just reminded me of a girl in my elementary school that was just hated for no reason. I remember her yelling and running out of class one day and nobody, not even the teacher did anything.

I talked to her one on one a few times and I talked to her like a normal person then, but I never showed her any sympathy or asked how she felt.
>>
>>157567901
>>157567932
There are indeed many forms of depression that do require medication to combat chemical imbalances in the brain. It doesn't mean you shouldn't also take other forms of treatment, it is very important for a depressed person to have people that care about him that can help.
>>
>>157567568
Psychiatry is a scam/pseudoscience.
>>
i just binged the manga and i feel even more suicidal what the fuick man
>>
>>157567932
In some part, yes. But it doesn't CAUSE depression, it makes you more susceptible to it. Medication is intended to be a leg up to get your life on track and create a better lifestyle for yourself, not to "cure" your depression. Even if you aren't depressed anymore due to the medication, you are still going to have low self-esteem and think negatively all the time.
>>
>>157567982
Hey look, we got a scientologist over here.
>>
>>157567838
>and i'm not even sure it's even worth it at this point, it's been almost 8 years, who the fuck cares anymore. Not her, that's for certain.
You might be wrong about that. Couldn't hurt to give it a shot.
>>
>>157567838
>Not her that's for certain

Anon, why do you think people would randomly get over traumatic events in their lives during the time of their life when their brain is forming and their entire outlook on life is being crafted...
>>
>>157567960
>Japan does have a high suicide rate among developed nations
>among developed nations
Laughing my ass off at this retard. Suicide is a first world """problem""". Good thing the garbage is taking itself out.
>>
>>157567939
>Suicide was considered to be the honorable thing to do to redeem yourself for being a failure and stop being a burden on society.

That's wrong. Suicide was very wrong for most members of Japanese society and anybody who wasn't a Samurai who committed suicide was doing wrong and going to go to hell.
>>
>>157567939
>Suicide was considered to be the honorable thing to do
true but not anymore
>>
>>157568022
Ever heard of the replication crisis? Ever heard about how many drugs are no better than placebo yet are still prescribed? Pill popping is the blood-letting of the 21st century.
>>
>>157552710
I still paints the people doing the bullying and ostracizing, including authority figures and parents, in a very negative light, which is more that can be said than most Japanese works.
In fact, if I'm not mistaken, there was originally outrage in Japan from parents groups and other over the original one-shot because how critical it was of society, which threatened its serialization.
>>
>>157568077
What are you even talking about?

The data that person linked demonstrated that if we consider other nations, Japan moves down to 27. How then is it a first world problem?

>those quotation marks

Oh it's just /pol/
>>
>>157567960
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
TIL Belgium is not a developed country
>>
>>157568077
>considering third world countries pushes down Japan in ranking
>which means third world countries have a higher rate of suicide
>1st world problem

Where's your guardian? I thought retards of your level had to be supervised.
>>
>>157568004
There is no study proving the effectiveness of ANY antidepressant to date. The effect of antidepressants varies so much from person to person they're practically useless. The FDA only approves them if they're not immediately harmful to most people, not if they're actually doing what they're supposed to be doing.

t. I was on antidepressants for years. None worked at all on me and I did a lot of reading on the subject. I take no more antidepressants now and I am in no worse or better shape than when I was taking them. The most they ever did was inducing somnolence and erectile disfunction. So on average, for me antidepressants weren't useless, they were worse than useless.
>>
>Uenoposters

kill yourselves
>>
>>157568171
>take no more antidepressants now and I am in no worse or better shape than when I was taking them.
Depression-wise, I meant. When you factor in side-effects, like I said, antidepressants were actively harmful for me.
>>
>>157568171
>and I did a lot of reading on the subject
I believe your story, but no offense, "doing your own research" is how we get anti-vaxxers. What kind of research did you do exactly?
>>
>>157567662
>movie sells 3 copies
>still makes more money than kizumonogatari
TYBKA
>>
>>157553043
This Ishida wouldn't of given a shit if he wasn't bullied back.

This movie filled me with rage rather than feels, her voice was cute though :3. Orange Days did deaf waifu better than anything I've seen yet.
>>
The soundtrack is literally making me teary eyed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5H2hvHJAFA
>>
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>>157568022
Depression doesn't exist unless you either: eat poorly, sleep poorly, do some crazy drugs or are going through puberty. If you still feel "depressed" then you've either hit your head hard enough to fuck up your head, or it's the natural phase of depression following some tragic event. The latter one will eventually pass, and if it doesn't then it's because you haven't taken enough care of your physical health.
>>
>>157568124
Belgium has a lower rate than Japan.

http://www.who.int/gho/publications/world_health_statistics/2016/whs2016_AnnexA_Suicide.pdf
>>
>>157568248
None of what you said makes any sense.
>>
>>157568248
Really it's honestly amazing how much more you enjoy things at home after you spend some time outside interacting with others.
>>
>>157568193
I said I read on the subject, not that I did my own research. I'm not a pharmacologist. I looked at drug effectiveness studies and metastudies for various antidepressants. Most are freely available on PubMed.
>>
>>157568248
Fuck you, you insensitive piece of shit. People like you that say "lol, get over it" are the problem. There is enough social stigma against people with depression already.
>>
>>157568248
You seem really depressed. Wanna talk about it?
>>
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what is the meaning behind this picture?
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>>157568293
The first step to curing depression is recognizing it's your fault, anon. You being at fault isn't such a bad thing, it means you have the ability to change it.
>>
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>>157568248
>fuck up your head
wow you specifically acknowledge that it's a brain problem in your post and then continue to bait
good post anon
>>
>>157568248
>>
This movie would have at least been decent without Ueno.
>>
>>157567932
I'm pretty sure you can be depressed because of some innate problems in the brain chemistry (e.g. one person born with a faulty protein that impairs serotonin reuptake will probably suffer from depression), but apart from that chemical imbalances don't pop out of nowhere, lifestyle, life events, basically the whole environment outiside one's self can be and is responsible for that.
Antidepressants are supposed to make you more emotional stable so that you can work out your problems, otherwise you remain stuck in a vicious circle.
>>
>>157568193
Not that guy, but he is right. If you actually do research on most medications prescribed to cure behavior you will see it's a ton of bullshit. For example they gave Adderall to kids as a treatment for ADHD.

That's fine, except Adderall doesn't actually do anything to help ADHD. All it is is weaker meth. They were just giving kids amphetamines to try to regulate behavior. Obviously they saw a behavior pattern change, but if you give kids crack you would too.

Anti-depressants are similar. No anti-depressant actually fixes any hormones you are deficient in or corrects your bodies regulatory system. At most you are just taking what are basically party drugs but on a regular basis to try to regulate yourself by giving yourself dopamine. This is not a cure or even a proper treatment for depression, but if you look at American prescription drug use patterns in makes sense.

The highest selling drugs are ones that deal with emotional problems like "anxiety" but if you actually look at what the drugs they are prescribing are, they aren't curing anything and their treatment is often times just getting the user high to try to make them forget they feel a certain way.

Modern medicine is an amazing thing but the way we try to medicate away mental "disorders" is getting out of hand. If you wanna have a good 4 A.M. go look at Vicodin, what it is, how it was marketed, how it was sold, and the epidemic it caused until it's use had to become heavily regulated. Pharmaceuticals want to get anything in your body that can make them money, they are not ethical in the slightest.
>>
>>157568175
Ueno did nothing wrong
>>
>>157568387
Adderall and Vyvanse works, I can confirm that as I have ADHD.

However the side-effects are too big so I had to stop and now I just try to deal with my mental handicaps as much as possible.
>>
>>157568293
The sigma is there because depressed people are trash. I've known several in the past, and I know that they drag you down with them in one way or another. If you want to be happy, hang out with happy people. If you want to be miserable, hang out with depressed people.
>>
>>157568293
Eh, the stigma sucks but I stopped caring about it after my sucide attempt, getting near death made me realize how meaningless the opinions of literally whos are and that I don't owe anyone any justification for my life and my problems.
>>
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>>157568464
>The sigma is there because depressed people are trash.

That's funny coming from you.
>>
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>>157568344
You know? You're right. I have the ability to change it. I'm the only one who can save myself because I'm the only one who is me. Because the only people who even remotely care about me do not actually understand me.
But also fuck you. This isn't my fault. I never chose to have shitty ass chemicals in my head and I never chose to live in a world that denies me a proper life because of it.


I changed myself, not because I was in the wrong, but because YOU were. I changed myself to fit in this trash world.
Maybe if you stop kicking down people that the world already sent down on the floor, they could actually stand up


Fuck self-doubt. I'll go down as an arrogant prick, but at least I'll trust the one thing I'll never lose - myself.

>>157568464
And fuck you too. If you can't handle a single misfit in your life, you ain't that strong yourself.
>>
>>157568464
The stigma is there because of the "lol mental illnesses don't exist lmao" meme.
>>
>>157568494
I might be a sort of trash, but I don't unload my negative feelings on people around me to cope with my daily life.
>>157568513
>And fuck you too. If you can't handle a single misfit in your life, you ain't that strong yourself.
But the key is not to be strong. The key is to make your own surroundings as comfy as possible. Having to be strong all the time leads to exhaustion, and that leads to neglecting your health and relationships. And those things lead to depression.
>>
>>157568527

The stigma is there because of the "lol transgender don't exist lmao" meme.

The stigma is there because of the "lol white supremacy don't exist lmao" meme.

The stigma is there because of the "lol racism don't exist lmao" meme.

this is not a very good argument anon
>>
>>157568464
Learn how to spell stigma before preaching to others.

Did you even finish elementary? lol
>>
>>157568542
Funny hearing you talk about being comfy considering how you go and deny that to people whom you think less of.
>>
>>157568410
Adderall and Vyvanse work insofar as any stimulant will work to "treat" ADHD. The stimulants have the same effect on everyone, which is why they are such popular illegal drugs.

The problem is you are not treating your ADHD, you are just getting high. Dealing with your mental handicaps is the actual solution to living and managing ADHD.

Source, I have ADHD and have just learned to use hyperfocus to get things done when it comes down to it.
>>
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the stigma is there because MENTAL ILLNESS IS INVISIBLE

like holy shit you break your leg and you get a cast and everyone signs it and life's great

but you break your brain and you get fucking pieces of shit like that anon

Brain's the most complex fucking thing we've got in our bodies, i don't know how the fuck you rationalize it never breaking
>>
>>157568542
>And those things lead to depression.

And non clinical depression like that can be easily managed by just taking a short breather!
>>
Who has the best subs for this?
>>
>>157568674
SpoonfeedSubs are pretty good
>>
>>
>>157568612
People I think less of? You mean depressed people? I think those people haven't taken proper care of themselves, and I want them to sort themselves out before trying to befriend me. Once they've fixed themselves I'll gladly get to know them. That's what I mean by comfy: staying away from people with issues. They'll easily start depending on you and unload their shit on you either consciously, or subconsciously through shitty behavior.

Depressed people should avoid other depressed people as well, as their company is a double-edged sword to them. On the other hand they can share their experiences and understand you, but they can also drag you even deeper to the bottom and make the bottom seem like the new normal.
>>
>>157568695
LOL
>>
>>157568695
That'd be a fun name for an actual sub group.
>>
>>157568642
ADHD can't be treated and everyone with ADHD already knows this so not sure why you brought that up.
>>
>>157568513
>I'm the only one who can save myself because I'm the only one who is me. Because the only people who even remotely care about me do not actually understand me.
No anon. I said you have the power to change yourself because I believe in you
>>
>>157568755
Because the point of the conversation is that the medication being prescribed for things is not made to actually treat the things and the FDA's job isn't necessarily to assure that it is, and just that it probably won't kill people.

Unless you are making a meta joke about how I have ADHD
>>
>>157568785
JS Ueno a cute
>>
>>157568696
Pedro banged Ishida mother?
>>
>>157568674
>>157568695
35mm is the best, but uses Sis instead of Nee-san. Nii-sama has errors but uses honorifics. HorribleSubs has typos (confirmed) but supposedly translates less lines compared to 35mm
>>
>>157568903
good thing i can understand japanese well enough that small problems with sub groups dont affect me
>>
>>157553217
>For her to magically not be deaf?
Yes. The point of the manga was that normal people (and Japanese society) don't really understand the ones born with disabilities and think that, if they would try hard enough, they would be normal like the rest. They're defectives because they don't try hard enough, not because that's how reality is. Even the mother thought that if she raises her daughter strictly, in time she will become normal. Those people are nuts. In Japan, from what I know from someone who was there, teachers can't even go to a psychologists if they have some problems, needles to say psychiatrist of they have depression. If you do that, you are kicked out immeadiately from teaching because you ,,can't resolve your issues alone, you are not good enough``.
>>
>>157568248
classic 4chan
>>
>>157568945
Wow, that's fucked up. Do they see it as a danger to the students to keep the teachers?

>>157568797
What's the JS stand for?
>>
>>157559921
this pretty much
>>
>>157568976
>What's the JS stand for?
Joshi shougakusei
>>
>>157567838
Send her a anonymous letter maybe she will think your a creep but she won't know it was you.
>>
Are the Horriblesubs the same subs that UK cinemas got? They seem a little different from the subs I saw in a Malaysian cinema a few weeks ago.
>>
I didn't ask for the feel again
>>
>>157569142
No, they're worse. Use 35mm or Nii-sama instead, though both of them supposedly have slight errors. I've only seen errors in Nii-sama so far myself.
>>
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>>157565762

I had a whole class sing a song about me being born a failure
>>
>>157569133
Wouldn't that just make her worry she has an obsessive stalker?
>>
>>157567838
Just apologize to her, I'd like a apology from the cunt that threw me down the fucking stairs every fucking day 8 years ago.
>>
>>157569290
Are you using xysubfilter? I'm using good ol' outdated KCP, so my stuff is out of date, but I never figured out how to add subtitles when you aren't using the built in subtitle renderer in MPC so I just mux the subs onto the video using mkvmergegui if I want to take screenshots with subs that aren't already muxed into the video.
>>
>>157552710
Hello I live around japs a lot and this is how they go about life, it's not specially victim blaming this is just how they function, Japs bring the responsibility for everything that happens in their lives to themselves and they believe each individual has the duty to do so as well. So even if you suffer from a special condition as being mute as Shoko, its her who has to adapt other than the whole society adapting to her, they are just realistic. I know it sounds brutal and cold but thats just how they raise their kids.

It's one of the things that took me longer to accept and understand. I'm a softy and I don't like watching people struggle to fit in the society, but I gotta give it to them, it works and its logical. You cannot bend society around one individual because you'd have to do it for everyone and in the end we wouldn't have a society. It would be chaos.

What Koe no Katachi shows is that even though there are a lot of problems a person must keep their integrity and face them with courage despite of what kinds of barriers life throws at them. And in the end they will be able to find happiness. Take it as you will, but its their culture and way of living, and trying to westernize it is pretty disrespectful imo.
>>
>>157567793
Normies went to see it at the cinema. This is entry level anime for plebs; high production values, pseudo-philosophical overtones and melodrama turned up to 11. Animated Oscar-bait.
I guarantee that the vast majority of the ticket sales went to people who only know KyoAni for Haruhi, if indeed they know them at all.
>>
Can someone explain what OCRing means?
>>
>>157568976
>Wow, that's fucked up. Do they see it as a danger to the students to keep the teachers?
No, they just see them as weak-willed shits that are not good enough as people.
>>
>>157569566
Yeah, I am. Not using KCP though. Just latest version of MPC-HC with latest version of XySubFilter.
>>
>>157569185
just curious anon, did you see it in the cinema? Did they sub the sign language there?
>>
>>157569669
I'm not really well-versed in the subject either, but I think it has to do with your settings in the Output section.
>>
>>157569747
Still
>>157569727
AFAIK none of the subs out atm do sign language, and from what I remember the anons that watched it in theatre didn't either. I did not watch the movie in theatres myself.
>>
>>157569747
Still doesn't work, I'll try researching for alternatives. I don't watch anime much (only other thing I'm watching this year is Kimi no Na Wa when bluray gets on torrent) so I might move back to VLC.
>>
Ueno reminds me of that girl from fourth grade up til sixth grade.

We always used to crack up jokes and banter like a standup comedian in the class while the teacher is still teaching which always led to the whole class bursting out with laughter and the teacher being mad. Got my parents called by the discipline unit many times. Out of classes, generally she's a bro and she's in my circle of friends.

Graduation came, she said her parents are taking her live abroad so it ended there. She did say she'd want to have fun with me again in the future, though it never happened. Probably wont since I'm literally a NEET now.
>>
>>157569747
>>157569815
Alright got it, had to install MPC-BE newest version to get it to work, and use internal subtitle rendering. Didn't work when I used XySubFilter.
>>
>>157569650
Basically analyzing images of words and turning it into text.
>>
>tfw want to watch the movie again
>don't want to get sick of it
>>
>>157570128
I'm gonna watch it for the third time this week, tonight
>>
>>157570128
Just watch it with the other subs.
>>
>>157566826
I dunno mate the "be yourself" is what made me less boring as a person and really raised my confidence. Most of my HS years were wasted because I worried too much of what others would think or how I should act. Once you realize most people are fucked up, the freedom of being yourself actually makes life pretty fun and tends to attract like-minded people who you can be friends with, instead of just tolerating.
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>>157570220
That's what I'm about to do actually. Only the second half though, as I rewatched the first half yesterday with Jap subs
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People like to call Nishimom a terrible mother but you realize she isn't all bad when you realize she was out in the pouring rain looking for Yuzuru.
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>you can tell she's trying to think of a way to invite Shouya out
CUTE
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>>157552780
>>157552999
>>157553043
>>157553061
>>157553109
>>157553540
Found the beta fucks who used to get bullied at school
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>bullied
at least I can post my sad frog, right?
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>>157570995
Frogposters deserve all the bullying
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>>157570756
you're projecting some real shit mate, you don't have to be bullied to view bullying negatively.
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>>157570995
Nobody cares about your blog.
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>>157570756
>Projecting this hard
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>>157570995
What is this green monster?
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>>157552710
>Everything just gets more stable when Shoko and Ishida (the victims) change.
>
>So it's as if the author was saying: "if you don't want to be bullied, learn to communicate better".

well, you CAN read the story like this. From a certain point of view Ueno was right, she DID inconvenience others, and disrupt the way everyone interacted. However, that POV is how a selfish child lacking all empathy would think and view the world.

The point of the author PRESENTING that point of view is to lay the foundation for why Shoko wants to KILL herself. See she actually believes she "ruins everything". As someone with zero self esteem, who's been a victim of almost constant bullying she actually believes this, even though in reality the problem is more a lack of empathy.

Meanwhile Ishida has "closed off" communication with the world. He has come to two erroneous conclusions. One, that he DESERVES being the subject of bullying because of what he did to Shoko. Two, that everyone is out to get him. This is a victim complex. His isolation at the start of the story is largely his own doing, as you can see when he starts to reach out to others for shoko's sake and they accept his friendship pretty quickly.

The central problem with the plot isn't that the world was cruel, it was that Ishida wasn't giving the world a chance to talk to him. In the beginning he's shown slowly covering his ears to the world, while he looks down at his feet unable to look people in the eyes (indicated by the X on their face), this indicates Ishida has chosen to close off the world. His whole character arc was learning how to open up to the world, interact with it face on. Shoko's whole arc was much simpler and revolved around her learning to stop blaming herself, to learn she was good enough as she was.

This isn't about punishing bullies. But about two kids learning to grow up and stop being so fucking emo.
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>>157552710
Japanese psychology. Basically: depression, anxiety, learning disabilities, etc., were all caused not by physiological or psychiatric issues, but just people "not being tough enough" or not "applying themselves properly".
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>>157552710
I became a lot more inclined to blame the victim when she decided to attempt suicide for no good reason.
>MC's skelly comes out of the closet
>people cold-shoulder him
>she doesn't know what the fuck is going on
>but OH WELL MC IS SAD GUESS I'LL COMMIT SUDOKU
I'm glad she got slapped around by Ueno a bit.
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>>157571681
>This isn't about punishing bullies. But about two kids learning to grow up and stop being so fucking emo.

10/10 post.

first time i've seen someone sum up the plot so succinctly.
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>>157571681
>But about two kids learning to grow up and stop being so fucking emo.
The problem is that you, like most anons here, are suggesting that the problem lies in being "emo", not in harassing who is "emo". Yes, being "emo" is bad for the health of those who are "emo", but that does not give other people the right to harass them. Got it?

Nishimiya, despite being a moeblob "emo", never hurt a fly and struggled to adapt, but she still was seen by the school as a villain.
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>>157571818
You are forgetting that Ueno told Shouko that part of the blame lies in Shouko's passiveness, and then after the bridge scene Shouya forces himself harder and harder to act happy around Shouko and she tells him he'd be unhappy if he stuck around with her, which just prompted himself to force a smile harder until Shouko broke.

She blamed everything on herself.
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>>157571681
>In the beginning he's shown slowly covering his ears to the world, while he looks down at his feet unable to look people in the eyes (indicated by the X on their face), this indicates Ishida has chosen to close off the world
I think I now know why Ueno still had that X on her face long after MC accepted Kawai and Eyebrows and all the rest
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>>157571818
>I became a lot more inclined to blame the victim when she decided to attempt suicide for no good reason.

> Deaf in a non-deaf society
> The father left her and her mother because she was deaf
> Being deaf caused problems for the family in relation to society
> Was accused of separating friends from childhood

Her self-esteem must be very tiny, a good reason to want to kill yourself.
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I don't remember this wub lub talk in the cinema.
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>>157552710
Well, people DO get away with being cunts.
Portraying this in a story doesn't mean you approve of it. A writer doesn't have the obligation to portray the world as it should be.
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>>157571908
>>157571981
>She blamed everything on herself
Yeah, but from that to suicide? Usually these situations have the girl abruptly breaking off all ties with the guy, or leaving town/skipping school, or something. I feel like the balcony jump was just the author trying to aim for maximum shock value rather than a rational consequence.
I mean yeah, she was told she's partly to blame and has carried baggage all her life, but things were also getting much better with Ishida and the rest until Kawai pulled the rug from underneath them.

Maybe this manga was 2deep4me
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>>157572075
Yuzu made it clear she's been having suicidal thoughts for a long time.
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>>157568397
Being pretty is a grave sin.
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It's funny how people here think that just because the girl is passive and too withdrawn, she deserves to be beaten. It is the duty of the educational system and the health system to help these people. If they can not or, worse, do not, it is not these people's fault, but the incompetence of those systems.

It is similar to the old and well-known logic of rape: if you don't want to be abused, don't wear short clothes.
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>>157572106
But again, things were getting better! They were making that movie and all the characters, if not exactly chummy, were at least working together and getting along as best as the circumstances allowed. You could argue the balcony jump was impulsive suicide but in fact if I remember correctly, they were at a fireworks festival and about to have a good time to put that nasty afternoon behind themselves. Why would a girl who dressed up in a nice looking yukata for probably the first time in her life with a guy looking out for her excuse herself partway to go and jump? Fuck I knew I should have taken at least one psych class.
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>>157572141
>It is similar to the old and well-known logic of rape: if you don't want to be abused, don't wear short clothes
I think the fuller version of that is: if you don't want to be raped, don't go for a stroll alone in a ghetto wearing short clothes
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>>157572075
Many depressed people tend to hide their real pains. It is not uncommon statements like: "I dont understand, he looked so well, we even went to a party friday...".
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>>157571896
Stop jumping on people who want to sympathize with the bully side too. Nobody's said that anyone has the right to harass anyone. Kids are just stupid and sometimes take joking too far, and there's no sin in that if they grow up and learn to behave.
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I find it weird that Shouko talks to Ueno

even if she didn't hold a grudge who in their right mind willingly interacts with their antagonist?
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>>157572350
>Kids are just stupid and sometimes take joking too far, and there's no sin in that if they grow up and learn to behave
This. Kids can be plain assholes and half the time they don't even realize it, even (or especially) in middle and high school

I always laugh when /a/ throws a shitstorm over what anime characters do.
>THAT MADE NO SENSE, WHY IS SHE SUCH A BITCH CUNT
>this MC is fucking retarded
Of course they're retarded, they're teenagers going through puberty. Let's not even consider the possibility of it being that time of the month.
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>>157572141
>people here think that just because the girl is passive and too withdrawn, she deserves to be beaten
I don't believe many think that. This movie was about how human behavior just is what it is, and sometimes you get the short end of the stick and get bullied. No side is completely innocent, and everybody just needs to grow up and learn to cope with each other in a way that doesn't hurt or completely piss off others. Kind of like in real life.
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You know, people in this movie(manga) are just too damn calm. If i was there it would have quickly got violent.
As for Ueno, some autistic think she just being honest but in reality, there's a between being honest and being a asshole, if you don't know that then i think i have bad new for you. You have literal autism.
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>>157572350
I don't think slapping, punching and kicking (A HARMLESS DEAF GIRL) is something so simple to accept.

The bully is always wrong, that's why he's, well, the bully.
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>>157572481
>No side is completely innocent
Okay, tell me why Nishimiya was not innocent without using passivity as an argument.
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>>157552710

The weak fear the strong, Japan is survival of the fittest.

The weak should be bullied they are not beneficial to Japan and breed weakness.

Look at all the anime fags in Japan that have checked out of society, its a small % compared to western countries hikkimoris and weebs.

Japanese kids walk to school by themselves, their parents literally show them how to get to school once and tell them fucking learn it," i ain't gonna help you if some pedo grabs you, you better fucking learn your way to school you little shit". It teaches independence and problem solving.
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>>157572448
>Kids can be plain assholes
but there is always a reason. culture, family, society, etc. after all, the world is not black and white like dragon ball, humans are more than just heroes and villans.
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>>157572493
So you've never wanted to bitch slap someone? Ueno clearly was worse at holding back her reactions, and if she ends up hurting someone then she owes an apology. But you have to be a really annoying person if you make someone want to beat you up. Anyone like that should consider getting new friends because it's clearly not working out. If you just stand there and take a beating without fighting back or leaving, then you've deserved it to an extent too (ofc Nishimiya couldn't leave the ferris wheel at that time, but I'm just surprised she chose to hang out with Ueno after that at all).
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>>157572493
>The bully is always wrong, that's why he's, well, the bully
One thing I appreciated about this manga is that half of the characters had participated (or were at least complicit) in bullying and they had to develop from there. Most of the time bully characters are poorly written and this doesn't just apply to anime/manga either. At least here we got to see a bit of what mindset they were operating on even if it was horrible.
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I wanted to see MC have sex with the death guy and hear her make retarded death sounds

Boo dyoo won du ave chex?
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>Ueno obviously understands Shouko better in the end
>Sahara looks down similar to how Ishida avoids looking at others, which Ishida realizes because he looks at other's faces now and gets all flustered
This movie is so fucking subtle I love it. Really driving that theme of communication in this scene.
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>>157572697
kinomunication
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>>157572526
Not standing up for herself. Self-hatred. She really hurt her family by trying to 'fix' everything with suicide. It's one of the most selfish and hurtful things a person can do.

She should've sought help better or just actively avoided the people who used to bully her. What kind of a masochist hangs out with their former bullies? I had murder fantasies of my elementary school bullies, I couldn't have imagined doing what she did.
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>>157572617
Not him but I would say that while I agree with most of your post, Shoko had to face a ton of shit in her life and that made her more inclined to shrink instead of fight back. In other words it was harder for her to overcome the bunker down attitude than most people.
She fought Ishida that one time in elementary school because it was spread out over a long time, but I imagine she went through some more shit between leaving that school and reuniting with Ishida which made her even more timid.
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>>157572075
>Yeah, but from that to suicide? Usually these situations have the girl abruptly breaking off all ties with the guy, or leaving town/skipping school, or something. I feel like the balcony jump was just the author trying to aim for maximum shock value rather than a rational consequence.
>I mean yeah, she was told she's partly to blame and has carried baggage all her life, but things were also getting much better with Ishida and the rest until Kawai pulled the rug from underneath them.
>
>Maybe this manga was 2deep4me

the manga confused the main theme, the movie brought it out better

A better way would be to look at the fireworks show before shoko's suicide attempt (in the movie). In the show we see all the side characters in the show watching the same fireworks festival and with family/friends. Those people are all physically close to others, in EVERY SINGLE SHOT they're hugging people indicating how close they were and open they were.

Meanwhile shoko and family + ishida are the only people shown not physically touching or even interacting. They're all silently watching the fireworks. Shoko's mom and yuzu both leave, probably to give Shoko and Ishida a chance to talk privately, and neither can be genuine. Ishida is still pretending to be happy, and shoko just gives up. The fireworks scene wasn't meant to be "nice" it was meant to be awkward as all fuck, as two people who should be the closest in the story are shown to be completely unable to communicate with each other honestly. Even the bitch Ueno was linking arms with her family, and here are Ishida and Shoko, not with their families, not with each other. Unable to talk to each other.

~transition to shoko on the balcony~

If you can't understand why Shoko would decide to kill herself at this point in the movie you are a fucking idiot.
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>>157572566
Are you seriously equating bullying with a parent teaching independence?
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>>157572793
Oh great observation on physical touch, I hadn't noticed that.
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>>157572617
I would feel like beating or cursing annoying people like Nagatsuka. But still, I would be wrong. He is inconvenient but not violent. And in the case of Nishimiya is even more absurd because she practically does nothing harmful. And even if I wanted to, it would still be wrong, because violence, physical and verbal, is wrong.
>>157572618
Ueno is a very poor character. She only has one characteristic: being a bitch.
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