Why did everything have to end like this? Im sad for the girls, specially for Homura, she is going to be ruling the universe and controlling madoka forever. Fuck kyubey.
It's not like she had much of a choice. Everything would have ended in suffering anyway.
So why not make it a bit more bittersweet? At least they're "free" to an extent and Homura has what she wants.
>She will defeat Homura in combat and force a compromise to be struck
How do you even mediate this?
>Madoka, I'm worthless. Only your happiness matters.
>No, Homura, I'M worthless. Only YOUR happiness matters!
>no, I'm the worthless one!
>no, I'm the worthless one!
>I'm the worthless one!
>I'm the worthless one!
Madoka literally gave up her life to give all Magical Girls, ever, a Heaven. Homura ripped Madoka back down to Earth, and brought, as far as we know, only the ones she personally knew back to life. All dead Meguca are trapped in Heaven, with a Lucifer standin overthrowing and ripping their goddess who saved them from the Heavens above.
Madoka wins this, Homura is in the wrong, even if she may or may not have meant well.
well maybe if the meguca in heaven took the time to realize that their goddess wasn't happy in heaven then we wouldn't be in this mess, would we? Homura is the only person in the universe that values Madoka's happiness
In Episode 12, when Madoka tells Homura that she'll be erased from existence, Homura exclaims that such a fate would be worse than death, and Madoka's only answer is "yeah I guess it will be, but let's stay positive!"
In Rebellion, Madoka tells Homura that the conditions of being the LoC sound like shit.
Madoka's character song reveals that she's desperately lonely as the LoC and misses her mortal life on Earth.
It was more then that. She saw one of her protégé become the very thing they were fighting against. Mami never knew what the final fate of Meguca was, and to have it revealed in that way snapped her like a twig. Honestly none of the others would have done any better, they're all fucked up to a greater or lesser degree.
>Honestly none of the others would have done any better
Madoka and Homura and Kyoko didn't snap like Mami did
So you're saying that with an emotionally supportive significant other, Mami would be invincible?
Not really. Only Sayaka crumbled. The rest were fine.
She hates herself far too much to form anything resembling a healthy relationship. Sure, healing is possible, but she doesn't really have enough time to chanfe her personality. After all, she was far too gone when Homura formed her pact for salvation to be possible for her. She'd already become destined to die or become a witch, and since Homura couldn't rewind time further back, she decided to give up on Mami.
You literally cannot point out a single thing that homura did wrong.
>Made the world happy
>Sent justice to the incubators
>took all the suffering and pain of the world and took it upon herself
>foreshadowing at the start of the movie even implies she is the second coming of christ
Alright, am I stupid if I don't get why anything in this ending happened? Why did Homura want to become the devil? I get that she thought Madoka was unhappy, but I'm not sure what will happen to the Universe now. Homura takes over as "goddess"? Who do they fight now? It makes no sense
They fight nothing, homura takes over and kills all the bad instead.
Everyone gets to live a happy life free of strife and pain.
Homura just wants to hold hands with madoka whenever she wants.
Homura herself pointed out she's probably going to have a confrontation with madoka sooner or later, and it seems she's keeping her distance as well. There's no happy ending for either of them, and there very likely never will, because the Butcher is the Butcher and the Butcher thrives on suffering.
>She hates herself far too much to form anything resembling a healthy relationship.
Mami has healthy relationships with the others in Rebellion and TDS, at least until in TDS Kyoko comes and ruins everything
I think she just needed a friend she didn't have to play the big girl to, someone who she wouldn't have to put up a brave front for, someone she could let her guard down around.
I actually, unironically believe that it is the closest thing to a masterpiece I've seen. I've rewatched it countless times. Over 10 for sure.
The pacing, the music, everything just flows so well that it makes the movie extremely rich.
And it's so full of tiny visual details that I still find something new.
It really was though, homura might be in charge but by doing so she's letting everyone else live enjoyable lives.
It might turn around, but she's intending for everyone to be happy.
i liked rebellion, it gave me the unhappy ending i was looking for in meguca
Does the opening of the serie implies that Madoka will regain her powers and face Homura ?
Because they have such a serious staredown in that scene. Homura looks stonecold meanwhile Madoka is angry but not furious
It would be fun if they used the scenes of the op (like Disapperance and the first op of Haruhi)
I believe is a 10/10 for a transition piece (and the movie that transitions to it hasn't being release so that's that), the only problem I found in it is QB's 5 minute explanation of the plot, if you miss something you might as well watch it again from the start (I had to watch it twice to get the movie) but this is a common problem on anime movies (not sure if its because of how short anime movies tend to be or how Japanese works)
I thought that their magical girl forms are what's affected by the wish.
Could she have been a necromancer before turining into a witch.
Magical girl powers are often obliquely related to their wish, and witch powers tend to be obliquely related to their magical girl forms
So there's probably no direct connection
My guess is her wish was pretty similar if not exactly the same of Madoka's.
But she was not powerful enough to truly fulfill it, and instead of turning into a godess she turned into a mighty witch capable of absorbing the others to keep them " safe"
Like a law of cycles that went wrong
>ruling the universe and controlling madoka forever
I don't see what's there to feel bad about
No she doesn't. The post credits mirrors the earlier scene where Homura and Madoka are sitting on chairs in the garden. But in the post credits scene Homura is alone and half of everything is missing; she's leaning over against where Madoka was earlier, but now nothing is there. She then falls off the cliff which mirrors Madoka falling off of the chair (sacrificing herself). You can also tell from their interactions in the school that they don't have the kind of relationship that they did before.
Her smile in the last scene shows that she is happy as long as Madoka is happy even if that means she will only be Madoka's creepy classmate that hugged her in her first day and tell her that one day they will be enemies.
Compared to Madoka, Homura takes the burden of being the LoC way better (or it's equivalent in Homura's barrier)
But she was easily the most clear minded of the characters
She just looks like a generic anime girl without the drills
What about no drills AND short hair?
She still looks good with her drills.
People always say that they want to date/marry Mami, but would you guys REALLY be able to handle how needy she would be? All those years of isolation would surely leave mental scars and she'd most likely be extremely clingy
Wrong. Madoka's happiness was bringing it to everyone else. Saving others and preserving their smiles is what she wanted. Homura acted out of insanity and drug her from that; purely because she projected her own selfishness onto her. She did it for herself.
What are you talking about? Homura was the only one who held an issue with Madokas decision. The "normal" life you're talking about is a sham and one that Madoka knows is wrong, which is why you see her starting to regain her memories before Homura forces her to forget again. She tries rationalizing it but ultimately she forces madoka against her will into the role she wants her to play.
Madoka had that entire thing about how it would be lonely to be the LoC, which Homura interpreted to mean Madoka wasn't happy, ergo ripping her in half and becoming Homucifer. Also the fact that the Incubators were trying to get to the LoC.
You can blabber all you want about "Madoka's sacrifice" but the fact is that when she talks to Homura in Rebellion, she says that she would never do something like that because of how sad it would make her friends and she wouldn't want to leave them and her family. She never wanted to become a god and only did it because the situation became so terrible for everyone involved. Sure, it fulfilled something in her which wanted to help people, but the sacrifice required for it was not something that she wanted. What you saw in Rebellion were her honest feelings about it, and Homura hearing that is what makes her ultimately snap.
People go on about how Homura is the villain or whatever. But Homura has just stuck to her original game plan all along - save Madoka. Something she failed to do in the series for Madoka had to ultimately sacrifice her entire existence and become a concept for the salvation of all magical girls.
By ursurping her and splitting the 'Madoka' persona off from the Law of Cycles, she has successfully returned Madoka back to her family and daily life.
It may be a false sorta reality where everything is manipulated by Homura, but she probably sees it as an improvement over Madoka being some incorporeal law of nature.
I don't think Madoka is actually existent there as a person, at least not in the way she was a person when she was a human. She's a concept that has to spend eternity fighting all witches throughout all time in all possible timelines. The series says it's a fate worse than death.
Sure, there's some form of contact. But she isn't with them as another human. They never knew her as a human, only Homura remembers that. Her family also never knew her. She'll never have any semblance of a normal life and has to fight for eternity. I think it's better to take the show at its word about how terrible it is.
It's a situation neither side is happy with that leaves no-one satisfied, but thats how all compromises work. And it really is a compromise between Homura's desires and Madokas.
That's why a "counter-rebellion" could happen.
If Madoka regains his memories, becomes self-aware of the reality in wich Homura has imprisoned her and fights tp free herself.
Sayaka is still here, Nagisa too, if they can help they would
But Urobutcher said that the original script of Rebellion had a happy ending but the director told him to change it.
so that could mean he has a soft spot for MadoHomu
or maybe it was only a sick joke and when the fourth/final movie it's released we will know what a depressive ending really is
Sayaka got BTFO in the original series, but Rebellion gave her a waifu and a measure of happiness. I do question why they paired her up with Kyoko though, as I cannot point to a single moment in the series where the two ever actually showed that degree of chemistry for each other, or where some sort of relationship might have sprung from, while in comparison it's dead easy to show where Homura's feelings for Madoka originated and how they developed across the loops.
>I do question why they paired her up with Kyoko though, as I cannot point to a single moment in the series where the two ever actually showed that degree of chemistry for each other, or where some sort of relationship might have sprung from
Yeah, the farthest that the both of them get is just understanding each other and deciding not to fight anymore. The development after that only happens for Kyouko.
She didn't get the girl though. She basically gave up on ever getting the girl. Homura will forever be watching Madoka from a distance, never able to get close to her for fear of upsetting her or stirring the goddess within.
>stirring the goddess within.
Oh I'm sure she'll be doing plenty of that
She'll get what's coming to her
Probably my favourite part about the ending is the anticipation of Homura's inevitable consequences.
She's a good girl at heart and deserves some gentle, loving perdition.
She might have been a good girl once, but she threw that all away. She accepted damnation as the price to pay, and there is no going back from where she is. Homura will end up in a lake of fire by the end, and what is worse is that she knows that and still did it.
Also, Homura was honestly doing Madoka a favor. Being God sucks balls and Homura was literally the only person in the she universe who cared enough about Madoka to try giving her the happiness that she refused herself
Madoka, separated from the influence of her wish and the memories that provoked it, told Homura directly that she preferred a happy, ordinary life with her friends to self-sacrifice. She became the Law of the Cycles because she had no other choice, not because it was what she wanted.
In the end, Homura got her wish. She redid her first encounter with Madoka like she wanted, and she was the one to save Madoka this time, like she wanted.
Sayaka saw Kyoko's sacrifice and Kyoko laments she never really got to know her before dying because Sayaka reminded her how she was/still is deep inside
In other words: They found the only girl that understands them, the same situation plays between Homura and Madoka
or it could be yuri-bait and nothing more, I still like that pairing though
Of course you'd say that Satan. Homura is just Lesbian Satan.
And as the series has proven, all Wishes come with a catch. Homura will have to face hers sooner or later. Something will undo hers just like she undid Madokas.
Homura did absolutely nothing wrong.
She is the best girl in the series as well.
Homura is very nice and she is a very good friend with other magic girls, especially Madoka.
Please do not upset Homura with your heresy.
>implying Madoka didn't already forgive her
She already said she did and said they'd be friends no matter what. Did you already forget?
I can't believe anybody could sit through the entire tv series and movie and still not realize Madoka is a dom. She's the epitome of a 'mother hen' character babying her peergroup. When her silent dominance is challenged, she privately angsts, singles out individuals to challenge them mentally, and searches for a solution systematically until she finds a way to assert herself and deny whatever challenged her authority. Madoka literally became God and rewrote the universe to protect 4 friends from a shady fursona. There's no point in the series where Madoka ever frames the exigence as anything other than "Do I control this? No, I have no control over this; this is bad. I must find a way to control this." Asserting dominance is her entire character.
Her principle female role model whipped some guy into a house-husband, and you can bet your ass Homura is twice the sub that poor joe ever was. They'll probably be exchanging strapon notes once Madoka is old enough to get "the talk" about safewords and safety knots.
What I'm confused about is how Homura was able to suck up god powers from Madoka like she'd been sucking powers from gods her entire life and what's stopping literally any other magical girl from doing the same? Wouldn't this make Madoka not very powerful at all?
>that she'll be erased from existence
How did she enter Homura's universe in the beginning? And I'm confused as to how the universe was created in the first place and how Homura would forget.
Madoka's mum mentioned in the PSP game that she was just like Homura at her age and Madoka said her ideal boyfriend was someone like her mother. So Homura is sort of freudian for Madoka.
It's pretty obvious when you pay attention to the story. The first timeline is their true selves and Homura is timid and shy while Madoka isn't at all and is more of a leader and the number one thing Homura hates about herself is how weak she is and she says this multiple times.
Why did she keep her Goddess form at the same age as her human form when she ascended?? She could have added a few years on to herself. Goddesses can change their forms to suit themselves.
Because Homura had reached something completely new in that her soul gem got corrupted by love instead of despair, as well as being the only magical girl that became a witch without having her soul gem shatter.
I was under the impression that it was because of her soul gem being filled with love rather than curses, so instead of turning into a witch she turned into a "demon" when it filled up, and that's where her powers came from, and she was able to put everything into a "demon" barrier. I didn't think she took any of Madoka's powers away. Maybe I'm wrong, though.
It's literally just a form. Just because she's a goddess doesn't make her any older right away. She literally just barely became one at that point so she's still very young no matter what form she chooses to take although she does look a bit older.
QUESTION: If it was Homura's plan to suck up Madoka's magic godness power in the end, was it also her plan to get trapped in the Incubator isolation thing and then have to rediscover it herself? How does that make any sense?
So basically it's magic and we shouldn't question it.
Maybe I need to watch it again but I don't think her soul gem was filled with love I think she literally just grabbed Madoka and sucked her powers up.
This might be true but I don't think anybody has confirmed this ever and if that was the case Homura should have gotten more and more powerful every time she time traveled back just like Madoka did.
There are some subtle signs earlier, like Homura grimacing in pain while walking with Madoka in the hallway and when she leaves when Mami shows up in episode 1, and in episode 4 (iirc) when Madoka says she won't forget her.
It's easy to just say whatever you want so why don't you explain what you're talking about and how exactly that answers my question instead of giving me a riddle to solve and thinking you accomplished anything when in all reality what you're saying probably means nothing. Obviously nobody else knows because I had three people just reply to the same post with completely different answers so why don't you just inform everyone with your superior knowledge?
>Maybe I need to watch it again but I don't think her soul gem was filled with love I think she literally just grabbed Madoka and sucked her powers up.
When Homura grabs Madoka at the end, Sayaka or Nagisa (can't remember which) says that her soul gem is a color darker than a curse and they don't know what emotion it represents. Homura says they wouldn't understand because it's one she feels for Madoka alone; she later tells Kyubey that it was love, because everything she did was for Madoka, and so the pain she went through became dear to her rather than becoming a curse, etc.
>Homura should have gotten more and more powerful
Her wish did.
The wish is the thing that's powered by karma. Madoka became a Goddess because she wished to BE the one who stopped every witch. Her wish was powerful enough to change the universe because of the looping accumulation of karma Homura caused. Madoka was at the center of that loop, but Homura was as well.
Homura's wish was to redo her first encounter with Madoka and reverse their roles, so that she would be the one to protect Madoka. Her wish went unfulfilled time and time again as each loop failed. Being tied to Madoka by the same karma is what allowed Homura to retain her memories after Madoka's wish changed the universe, because Homura's wish, which drew from the same thread that fueled Madoka's, was still unfulfilled.
You can consider the events of Rebellion something of an inevitability. Homura's wish was always powerful enough to bend the rules of the universe, and with power equal to Madoka's, would inevitably lead them to encounter one another in their 'first meeting' eventually. When that happened, of course Homura found that her wish contained the power needed to 'protect' Madoka. The only thing Madoka needed protection from at that point was her own wish.
That's also why the turning point in the movie was Homura's one-on-one conversation with Madoka, where she confirmed, in her own way, that being the LotC wasn't really what Madoka wanted. She can't exactly protect Madoka if there's nothing to protect her from, so she could have simply accepted Madoka's wish and passed on with grace. Upon confirming what was, to her, a reason to protect Madoka, she found a purpose to her wish again.
It wasn't her plan to suck up Madoka's power (or at least is never hinted/or I missed it), that's why that plot twist hurts so deep, she saw an opportunity (that wouldn't be possibly without her love for Madoka turning into magical power) and took it, an opportunity to save Madoka and make sure they are never separated again (if she was taken by the LoC they would've been together but Madoka would still be separated from all the people she loves that are not magical girls)
You are right, I forgot completely about that
I think the series will end with a twist: everything will be fixed and all of the megucas will get normal lives again. Madoka will finally work up the courage to confess her feelings to Homura, but
Homura is actually straight only thought of Madoka as her best friend the entire time.
You wouldn't know a bad apple if it smacked you in your ugly face.
But what Homura did was objectively worse than QB's. QB's goals and values are alien to a species with emotions, but they are still both comprehensible and ulitimately intended to save others. Homura actively either damned all magical girls, erased most of them and only damned her most dear friends, or trapped all the others in heaven and damned her friends, while destroying the LoC solution Madoka created and reestablishing the old way.
Homura is guilty of every sin QB is, but also of sins only an emotional creature could commit, including selfish destruction of others. She is also the purest opposite of Madoka, the despair to her hope.
Fire and Brimstone are all there is for her.
It's the power of friendship, anon. Madoka was the one jumping on top of Homura on the boat, etc.
>Her wish did.
>The wish is the thing that's powered by karma. Madoka became a Goddess because she wished to BE the one who stopped every witch. Her wish was powerful enough to change the universe because of the looping accumulation of karma Homura caused. Madoka was at the center of that loop, but Homura was as well.
Why was she able to kill Walmart in one hit before she became a god? I think it was the second to last timeline.
There is no friendship so deep you would literally make yourself Satan to preserve it. Homura straight up said it was love that turned her evil. And I don't even give a shit about the sexualties of the Megucas and am pretty sure they've never going to actually come out and say that any of them are gay or not.
Would you watch a SoL show based off the earlier time loops about Mami interacting with her students?
Yeah, I don't agree with that anon about Homura getting more powerful. Her wish was eventually fulfilled, sure, but I think it has to do with her soul gem being special (being filled with love) rather than her karmic importance. Her powers don't ever seem to increase that way over the various timelines.
You don't love your friends, anon?
If you wanted to examine a non-yuri angle for Homura, you could go back to Kyubey's explanation near the end of the show; Homura turning time back over and over caused saving Madoka to become the reason for her existence, to the extent that if she gave up on it her soul gem would go dark. She was consumed by her wish, basically.
And that's why Homura became yandere, because she conditioned herself to love Madoka over that decade of time looping in order to not witch out, and as a result she was still yandere when it came to the movie and she had no life threatening reason to continue being a dyke for Madoka.
I don't think she became yandere until she talked to Madoka in Rebellion and realized she'd failed at protecting her. I think that's when she snapped. At the end of the show it seems like she was able to accept things.
There was the implication that she had already been thinking about soul raping Madoka from the start of the movie (chronologically) though. Near the end where they're breaking out and Homura's memories are being restored, Madoka gives her some words of encouragement and Homura says "I won't hesitate anymore", referring to the fact that she was already thinking about becoming devilhomu and her time/conversations with Madoka sealed the deal.
We never saw much of her life fighting the Wraiths, and it seems that Rebellion begins after all the despair of her fight against them has finally overcome her defenses and she's on the cusp of her fall/ascension. So she may well have been in a bad state of mind even before she encountered Madoka again in her Witches Labyrinth.
>There was the implication that she had already been thinking about soul raping Madoka from the start of the movie
I saw rebellion a year ago, do you remember when is that implied? I think I missed it
IIRC when Homura grabs Madoka and is about to split her in half she says something about having waiting a long time to do it. I don't remember the exact words used but it's in that scene.
To be fair most of the people in this thread would split Madoka in half given the chance.
>A few dozen.
is there a breakdown of the henshins somewhere? i noticed a lot of symbolism in sayaka's and homura's (foreshadowing a lot of the movie if you pay attention) and i'm sure the others have it too
happiness is for chumps anon
love is for the devil
Having now watched it again, she does indeed say 'I've waited so long for this', though I'm not sure it means that she was waiting to snag her, but that she was waiting to see her again. I think the snagging was more seizing an opportunity.
Well she already saw her like 10 seconds prior to that scene.
Also watch the part leading up to Homura+Madoka shooting the magic bow together to bust out.
>I wanted to see you one more time
>and if I had to go so far as to betray that wish
>yes, I knew I could shoulder any sin
>no matter what I became, I knew I'd be fine with it
>as long as I could have you by my side
It also ends on pic related, which is quite ominous in hindsight.
I'd say it's strongly implied Homura wanted to split Madoka prior to getting sealed+amnesia, and her talks with Madoka ended up reinforcing her resolve because Madoka basically told her she didn't really want to wish to become Madokami when they were talking at the flower field.
What I find interesting is that she says
>as long as I could have you by my side
And yet she doesn't get that. In fact she drives everyone away by her actions. There might get to be a Madoka/Mami/Sakaya/Kyoko group that will pop up, but Homura will never be a part of it. She'll always be on the outside, the master of her fate and the architect of her own misery.
When it comes to fanfiction, I've noticed a lot of fan-ideas and theories ended up migrating into the series proper. Fans were shipping Sakaya and Kyoko well before they decided to tease them in Rebellion. The same with Mami and the Witch who killed her, which again became almost canon in Rebellion. I don't know if I'm reading too much into this, but it seems toe more something is pushed by the fans, the more likely it is to come true. At this rate I fully expect an explicit yuri end, because all the fans here and in Japan seem to have latched onto that like limpets.
Most of it happened more in the later parts. That scene with Sakaya and Kyoko on the spire where they held hands was not part of Homura's dreams as far as I can tell. It seems to be legitimate.
The relationships from Rebellion are real. Mami and Kyouko just don't have their memories in the first part, but they start getting them back later. Sayaka and Kyouko have their moment in the context of Kyouko remembering Sayaka died, etc. Even after Homura rewrites everything and wipes their memories, at the end you see Sayaka and Kyouko together and Mami and Nagisa becoming friends again.
It's implied that Sayaka and Bebe still existed after they died like there was some kind of Madoka heaven for magical girls, and if Homura had gone with Madokami they probably would have been able to exist together forever. Plus, if Homura had gone with Madoka, the Kyuubey's wouldn't have had anyone that existed with memories of Madoka left in the world, and so they probably never would have been able to even reach her again, never mind interfering with her.
Now Homura is left with only a small window of time to indulge in delusions of normalcy with Madoka until she inevitably regains her memories and seemingly by connection, her powers. Then Homura is stuck with a Madokami that knows Homura interrupted the duty that she took full responsibility for and gave up her life to uphold, to watch over all magical girls.
Homura quite literally bought herself only a few months, maybe a year at most, and she won't even get to actually spend any time with Madoka, just watch her from a distance and wait for the moment that she wakes up and everything turns to shit. Still, Homura chose it, I guess that's the ending she wanted.
It won't even come to that, Madoka almost remembered everything and regained her powers a few scant minutes into the new universe, I doubt it'd be more than a few months before she remembers everything fully, then Homura's whole "save madoka" plot will be revealed as what it truly is, just a selfish act by Homura so she can wallow in delusions while no one, not even her, is really happy with the situation.
Pretty much, Madoka almost remembered everything during the first day, I can't imagine this fake world will last very long until she gains back her memories and ((maybe?)) her powers and then has to deal with Homura and what she's done, then no one will be happy.
Good job Homura, you fucked everything up.
At the end of the show, Madoka says she is omniscient and knows the past and future of every possible universe, meaning that she knows what Homura is going to do and how it will turn out ultimately, and she isn't mad about it. So it's okay.
If she knew what Homura was planning to do (( and, by the look on her face, is surprised at NOT happy about it )) why didn't she stop her? Or try to talk to her about it when she regained her god powers? Homura could literally be some kind of god anomaly that even Madokami couldn't predict.
The thing is that while yes, Homura fucked up, it's not like we can't see where she came from and even empathize. All those people who call Homura a total bitch for what she did obviously never actually watched it, because Homura was never in a good head-state to begin with, and shit eventually piled up to the point where she went mad and did what she thought was the right thing, even though with the benefit of hindsight we can see where she went wrong.
Sure I can empathize, but that doesn't mean I can't also think she's retarded for doing what she did, even after Madokami told Homura she was genuinely okay with basically existing as a concept if it meant she herself could save every magical girl ever.
So, I'm about to start the Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica Portable PSP game (because after the Series and the Movies and the Manga, that's the next step to take). Anyone here played it? Anyone know what the fuck I'm getting into?
>Madokami told Homura she was genuinely okay with basically existing as a concept if it meant she herself could save every magical girl ever
Based on Madoka's personality and previous actions you could make an argument either way on whether she lied or not. Homura can't trust that.
No, honestly. There'd be even more heated debates on it;s canon to the story and a plague of shitposts from a certain group.
Instead animate something more important like Memories of you.
Rebellion was literally a masterpiece, but the gay part with Sayaka and Kyoko is really conflicting with my Christian beliefs
We've still got 200 posts to go. Autism could easily rise then. I hope not, after suffering through fuck knows how many bad threads, the Madoka ones have been an oasis of actual discussion and decency that has almost restored my faith in /a/.
> that music
> those visuals
End this meme. The selfish course of action for Homura would be going with Madoka to heaven. Spending eternity together is what she craves more than literally anything. Denying her own happiness to give Madoka happiness is the opposite of selfishness.
It's a case of selfish selflessness, if that means anything. Being selfish as far as Homura turning herself into a devil and undoing everything Madoka herself achieved, but selfless in that she knew she'd lose everything she wanted and never get to be with Madoka or any of her other friends again.
Francis follows Jesus' message as laid out in the NT more strictly than any pope in recent memory, you dumb faggot. News flash: the core of His message was forgiveness, the shedding of wordy possessions, and charity to the poor. If you get asshurt that mudslimes in the ME and nigs get counted as a part of the "poor" (even though they're poor as fuck) because they aren't a part of the faith, then you are a Fake Christian, because Jesus himself NEVER drew a line that said "only help fellow Christians," in fact that sort of attitude was one often professed by the pharisees and was one Jesus came to earth specifically to correct. If you're asshurt that Francis keeps talking about how moneyed interests are the devil, you are a Fake Christian, since this point is one of Jesus' most consistent messages throughout the entire NT -- you can either serve God or mammon, not both. If you're asshurt that Francis said to stop bullying the fags, you know nothing about Catholic catechism, since the "do not judge the sinner, and treat them with love as you try to guide them" has been on the books for decades. Francis just said it in public. In fact, virtually EVERYTHING that Francis has ever said was already well-established doctrine, his gimmick is just saying it in press conferences.
TLDR: /pol/ Christianity is Fake Christianity, and the time when you are chased out of the Temple with all the other false worshipers (the one time Jesus got mad) is soon. I cannot wait.
I completely agree, but would also just like to ask that we try and keep these sort of debates out of Madoka threads. I want to enjoy discussing this series without any drama like this. We have it bad enough with the shitposters.
Seems to me that all the problems and confusing moments of Rebellion were a result of the fact that the story was originally meant to be a season but was shortened into a movie. Everything could have been explained and expanded and properly set up if they had more time.
The only thing that needed explaining was what the consequences of the ending are. Sayaka implies Homura did something bad from an objective standpoint but all we know is she made the universe her own personal heaven.
Sayaka is just butthurt that she got BTFO by Homura. A recap of how things stand in Homura's new world:
>the LoC still functions, just without Madoka to give it "personality"
>thus, magical girl salvation still exists
>Kyuubeys are forced to shoulder the burden of the world's despair, no more need for magical girls to fight
>all of Madoka's friends are given Good Ends
>Madoka is given a Good End
Everything Homura has done so far has been pretty benign, unless you're Kyuubey in which case fuck you. If there are negative consequences of Homura's actions, they haven't shown them yet.
I like to imagine that Homura fucks with the other girls everyday like breaking the tea pot in front of Mami or wasting Kyoko's apple. That would be a pretty bad life for everyone indeed if you went with that.
Homura has this thing that now that she's satan she needs everyone to hate her. So she's happy to have Sayaka against her, and straight up tells Madoka they'll be enemies one day. She's pre-emptively driving everyone away.
Homura broke a perfectly functional system that Madoka had set up for no good reason just because she was lonely or some shit. Now Homura has to be Satan because of this
Homura learned that Madoka didn't want to be a god and did the only thing she could do in order to save her. Now Homura perceives herself as Satan because she failed Madoka and had to act against Madoka's wish
>be transfer student in a new school
>get offered a tour of the place by the local glasses girl
>right in the middle of it she forces me into a crushing hug
>says that one day that we'll be enemies after asking me way too personal questions
>like god damn I don't even know you, bitch
>lets me go and pretends like nothing happened
What did she mean by this?
Homura is a good girl who deserves love and eternal salvation.
Yes, she does deserve Madoka's eternal salivation.
If you'd bothered to pay attention while watching, you'd notice how she calls herself worthless in episode 10, how little she values her life, her massive guilt complex, and, if that wasn't enough, the sheer amount of suicide imagery plastered throughout Rebellion.
Hi, there! Why do you love Kyoko so much? By the way, I'm Kyoko. It's just a coincidence, though.
I don't remember every line from a 6 year old show so I'll believe you on that point, but what does she have to feel guilty about? Also if she didn't value her life she would've just called it quits and became a witch, considering she actually needs to stay alive to attempt to save Madoka.
As for the movie, that actually is her hating herself for sure due to thinking about separating Madoka from the LoC for her own selfish reason, but that sentiment disappears by the end of the movie as Madoka validates her intentions.
>Also if she didn't value her life she would've just called it quits and became a witch
Homura gives up at the end of episode 11 and is going to turn into a witch, but Madoka shows up and stops her before it happens.
I know. She only does it once she finds out that continuing to turn time back just makes it worse for Madoka. I was just pointing out that she does actually give up at the end.
>what does she have to feel guilty about
Madoka dying a hundred times over in time loops.
>Also if she didn't value her life she would've just called it quits and became a witch
She can't allow herself to give up while Madoka is in peril. Homura has given up on pursuing her own happiness, only fighting for Madoka's.
>that sentiment disappears by the end of the movie
You missed the part about calling herself the ultimate evil for going against Madoka, while her own Clara Dolls lobbed tomatoes at her, and her subsequent implicit statement that she's unworthy of Madoka's love when she returns the ribbons, and the fact that she jumps off a cliff in the last scene.
Ah, I see. I don't know if I agree, though. She loves Madoka enough to go through all of that suffering for her, but once she learns that she's making it worse she decides to die. A similar thing happens in Rebellion when she turns into a witch and wants the other magical girls to kill her so Madoka can get away. Madoka is the reason for her existence, so if her existence harms Madoka she's willing to go ahead and die for her. She values Madoka's life, not her own.
>Madoka dying a hundred times over in time loops.
But that literally has nothing to do with her. Unless Homura explicitly said that she felt responsible for Madoka's death(s) somewhere that's just delusion.
>She can't allow herself to give up while Madoka is in peril. Homura has given up on pursuing her own happiness, only fighting for Madoka's.
And the condition for that is that she must stay alive to do so, which is the opposite to not caring about your life.
>You missed the part about calling herself the ultimate evil for going against Madoka, while her own Clara Dolls lobbed tomatoes at her, and her subsequent implicit statement that she's unworthy of Madoka's love when she returns the ribbons, and the fact that she jumps off a cliff in the last scene.
She supposedly fucked up the universe in order to achieve her and Madoka's happiness (at least she believes Madoka would want it too). The problem is we don't know what exactly is wrong with it besides a vague comment from Sayaka. That's why she calls herself evil, and the clara dolls tomato her because that's treatment for evil-doers, and she doesn't jump off the cliff at the end, she falls off, probably symbolizing her decent into madness. I mean it would be pretty retarded to want to kill yourself after going through so much trouble to secure your own happiness.
>That's why she calls herself evil
She thinks she's evil because she's acting against a god.
>aand she doesn't jump off the cliff at the end, she falls off, probably symbolizing her decent into madness.
It's a mirror of the scene of her and Madoka in the garden, when Madoka falls off of the chair (sacrificing herself) and Homura isn't able to stop her. The whole scene is a mirror of that; the other half of everything is missing because Madoka isn't there, so Homura is leaning against nothing, where Madoka should be.
Except in Homura's mind Madoka pretty much gave her the OK to do it. She's evil because she's fucked with the universe somehow although the only reason we know she did something bad is because Sayaka said so.
Madoka didn't give her the okay. She told her Homura her honest feelings about it, in a state without her memories (which I think justifies Homura's actions), but she never actually okay'd it. Also pay attention to how Homura acts towards the Madoka "statue", or whatever it is, that represents god Madoka in the dream world. She's almost groveling at it, and later when she finds out she's the "witch", the places where she touched it turn into black handprints, like she's soiling it in some way. She views god Madoka as a literal god, and so someone that acts to frustrate the will of god is a "demon."
She only values her life to the extent that her promise to Madoka has not yet been fulfilled. Her wish was to protect Madoka at ANY cost, because she is worthless and Madoka is worth it. She cannot do this if she is dead, or a witch. So she fights on, even if she has to fight forever, until Madoka is protected. Because Madoka is worth it.
Rebellion would've been a masterpiece if
Homura's usurpation had any prior foreshadowing. And no, the part where Madoka says that she couldn't bear being the LoC doesn't count, Homura started spouting the "but thats wrong youre more brave than you know!" speech right after.
The first part of the movie was pointless fan service, the second was some shitty mystery plot, and the last 20 minutes flip the rest of the movie off because Urobutcher couldn't settle for a normal ending.
If it were the shitty mystery plot at the start, then the reveal of the plot with more focus on Homura's experience of becoming a witch and proper establishment of her motives, and then the usurpation with its aftermath being longer and more fleshed out, it would've been either a great movie or a masterpiece, assuming it would retain the same visuals and overall style.
>>But that literally has nothing to do with her
>"I wish to be someone who protects Madoka"
>fails to protect Madoka a hundred times over
>this has nothing to do with Homura
>>Unless Homura explicitly said that she felt responsible
So you not only have shit reading comprehension, you understand the basic storytelling principle of "show, don't tell."
>>And the condition for that is that she must stay alive to do so, which is the opposite to not caring about your life
Staying alive does not mean you value your life. Homura does not care about her own happiness.
>>to secure your own happiness
>Homura will forever be a stranger to Madoka, only watching from afar, never able to experience Madoka's love
>this is happiness
You're actually retarded. The hill symbolizes her heart; it's cut in half because she is separated from Madoka, and she falls leaning on the empty space where Madoka once was.
I said "in Homura's mind" she gave her the OK. But I suppose you're right in a way now that I think about it more, though the part about Homura going against god doesn't become apparent until near the very end when she talks with Madoka, and Madoka tells her that she wouldn't put her own happiness before rules. She still had her devil motif going on before she realized Madoka did not in fact feel the same way as she did, so it definitely also has to do with the fact that she fucked with the universe for her own happiness (and what she thought would be the happiness of Madoka as well).
Are you stupid? Madoka's first death and subsequent deaths had nothing to do with Homura. Homura wished to prevent a death which would have happened without her input. She is not responsible for the death, but she still wants to prevent it. Not hard to understand.
Oh and Homura only said that she wanted to see Madoka again, not that she could only be happy munching her rug. So it's a somewhat bittersweet ending because Homura gets to see Madoka but they're estranged as far as we can tell.
She is responsible for failing to keep Madoka alive, which is her goal. Failure leads to guilt; this is not hard to understand.
Because Homura already gave up on her own happiness long ago. Her ideal world is portrayed in her barrier-- the Holy Quintet eating cake and having a gay old time. Reality disallows that, and she doesn't even have Madoka to support her. Homura was willing to sacrifice anything for Madoka, so she sacrificed her own happiness.
>She is responsible for failing to keep Madoka alive
No, she is not. She has absolutely no responsibility whatsoever. Nobody charged her to do it, she wasn't guilted into doing it, she chose to save Madoka out of the good of her own heart as a complete outer party.
>Because Homura already gave up on her own happiness long ago.
She was thinking about soul ripping Madoka for her own happiness at the start, that's hardly giving up. It's just that she went back to her old "doing it all for Madoka" routine the moment Madoka implied being LoC was making her unhappy. And again, even though it's not the ideal situation she still gets to see Madoka again every day, which at least gives her more happiness than not being able to see her at all as the LoC. Also since she's a full blown yandere at this point you could even argue that protecting Madoka's happiness is her own happiness.
Same, i loved meguca but fuck that gay shit. I hope that Hitomi will kick those degenerated asses in the new movie.
>Homura sets a goal for herself
>she's not responsible for whether or not it's realized
You are retarded.
>She was thinking about soul ripping Madoka for her own happiness at the start
No she wasn't. Her goal was first to destroy the witch and escape the barrier, then when she realized that she was the witch, she was going to have the other girls destroy her so Madoka wouldn't be vulnerable to Kyubey's scheme, and only at the very end did she come up with her devil plan.
>full blown yandere
A yandere will kidnap their love interest, lock them in a basement, and murder them if they refuse to love them back. Again, you're retarded.
>the state or fact of being responsible, answerable, or accountable for something within one's power, control, or management.
>only at the very end did she come up with her devil plan.
No, it was foreshadowed throughout the movie that she had been thinking about it prior to the start of the movie, and that her talk with Madoka sealed the deal.
>A yandere will kidnap their love interest, lock them in a basement, and murder them if they refuse to love them back.
Yeah you're retarded. Not all yanderes will murder their love interests and Homura basically did those first 2 things you mentioned.
Quoting the dictionary is not supporting your case. You cannot argue the fact that you are responsible for realizing the goals you set for yourself.
What was foreshadowed throughout the movie was her failure to protect Madoka driving her to extreme actions. She doesn't actually think she can drag down Madoka from heaven until the end.
She sets Madoka free. She doesn't claim Madoka for herself. A yandere with Homura's power would brainwash Madoka into loving her.
>you are responsible for realizing the goals you set for yourself
But you're not. Nobody will hold you accountable for not fulfilling them. Especially in this case, nothing will change if Homura does not realize her goal. It's like feeling responsible for starving african children - you can help them from the good of your heart, but you sure as hell don't have a responsibility to do so otherwise. The closest thing to your argument is that Homura became obligated to save Madoka the moment she made her wish in order to avoid despair and turning into a witch.
>What was foreshadowed throughout the movie was her failure to protect Madoka driving her to extreme actions.
Seems like you don't know what foreshadowed means either. How about you go rewatch the part where Homura explicitly says she wanted to see Madoka again and didn't care what she became to achieve it.
>She sets Madoka free.
I'm pretty sure Madoka and everyone else in the universe is still stuck inside Homura's barrier.
>A yandere with Homura's power would brainwash Madoka into loving her.
Again you continue to show your utter lack of understanding of words. Do you also think all tsunderes physically beat up their love interests? Watch more anime.
Not that guy, but Homura definitely feels a sense of failure over her inability to protect Madoka from herself. That was the point of the 4 giant moemuras judging her in the scene of her witch transformation. She's judging herself. Also, when Madoka comes to get Homura, we see that Homura is endlessly repeating the scene of her mercykilling Madoka in her head.
Well you can certainly feel like a failure for not fulfilling your goals, but that doesn't have anything to do with responsibility. You can feel bad about not having enough spare change to feed a hungry african child but you're not responsible in the least for the kid you see on that ad.
Homura feels/is responsible because she wished to be Madoka's savior in the first place, instead of just wishing her to come back to life. It started off as a second-chance ego project (she hated herself and wanted to be cool) and blew up into something she couldn't stop.
Do you have a single fact to back that up? The way I saw it Homura just made that wish in the heat of the moment because she was emotionally compromised, rather than having any sort of egotistical desire to play hero.
>SOL anime following Kyouko
>every episode is her killing witches, stealing food and housing, and acting like a punk
>final scene of every episode is her praying on her knees, begging God to not send her father to Hell, and to punish her instead
Is this sufficient suffering?
The entirety of the first loop showing how she's an insecure, self-loathing outcast, how she looks up to Madoka for being confident and strong, and the specific role-reversal nature of the wish.
>made that wish in the heat of the moment because she was emotionally compromised
Which is why her wish was tainted with her underlying desires. (I'm not saying it was entirely or even mostly selfish, she did want Madoka to come back.)
does this not look like the face of a person you can trust?
>Made the world happy
Recreate Madoka existence in a fake happiness, a golden cage; is "happy"?
>took all the suffering and pain of the world and took it upon herself
She now control the Puella Magi system and this still existing, because need eat suffering and pain of other people
>foreshadowing at the start of the movie even implies she is the second coming of christ
to be fair if you watched everyone die hundreds of times over and had no way of knowing that the timeline in the series would be the final loop, it makes sense that she wouldn't give much of a shit if anyone but Madoka died
>Nobody will hold you accountable for not fulfilling them
You yourself will. Unless you're going to blame society and the world for your woes, but shit sucks and life is unfair regardless.
>It's like feeling responsible for starving african children
If I decide to do charity work in Africa by delivering rations to starving children, then I am responsible if the truck breaks down in the middle of the savanna and the food gets scavenged by wild animals.
> the part where Homura explicitly says she wanted to see Madoka again and didn't care what she became to achieve it
Which is right before she becomes the devil, not "throughout the movie."
>I'm pretty sure Madoka and everyone else in the universe is still stuck inside Homura's barrier
As opposed to being stuck in a collective consciousness that destroys witches for all eternity. Madoka has the entire world before her, and Homura isn't going to deny her any freedom unless it involves getting killed/erased from existence.
>all tsunderes physically beat up their love interests
Verbal abuse is congruent. The defining trait of a yandere is psychotic possessiveness; Homura does the opposite by deliberately separating herself from the target of her affection. The goal of a yandere is to receive love; Homura has thrown that away because her goal is Madoka's happiness, and she believes Madoka would be happier without her.
not entirely true, she wanted to protect Mami even though her death was exactly the reality check she needed to keep Madoka from becoming a magical girl. But the milk cow herself sealed her own fate so yeah
It was Madoka's fault. Madoka constantly manipulated Mami so that she would always feel inadequate as their senpai, and drove Sayaka into despair so that she turned witch in the first place. She let Mami kill Kyoko for the lulz, and let her restrain Homura so she could "save" her and cry crocodile tears because it would make Homura feel bad. Then she purposely forces Homura to reset the timeline despite all the pain she's gone through, just so that Madoka can accumulate more power. Madoka is literally the reason everyone suffers and dies.
I felt she forgot about it when Madoka told her that she wanted to be a magical girl, to the point of suggesting that Madoka's wish could be a cake (even as a joke its irresponsable) and because she was so happy and excited by the idea of not being alone she rushed into battle and lost her head
Kyoko is still cuter though
Which really begs the question, how did Homura KNOW she could do that? What on earth made her even think that was possible? The series was pretty consistent about how people came to know things until that happened.
what would a heterosexual male do when stuck in Sayakas body?
Do you have any evidence to prove that? We don't actually know what the situation is beyond a brief look at the end of Rebellion. We have no idea if there are still Witches or Wrights or whatever, or what the situation with Megucas is.