Who was the right one here?

>>157466651
i dont remember what they talked about but I'm going to say saber because she's cute

>>157466651
Kiritsugu

Looking at it objectively: No one
Looking at what the narrative (re:Butcher) wants to say: Iskander, some of Gil, zero of Seiba

>>157466651
Cristiano Ronaldo

>>157466651
From the angle shown it's clearly Iskander

>>157466651
rider
unless you're talking from gilgamesh's perspective in which case it'd be saber.

>>157466677
They both talked about Saber being a bitch king

>>157466651
No one, that's the fucking point. They are all failures as kings.

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>Saber
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH1tNlxzeLg

>>157466677
Kingship ideals. Saber was morals over self. Iskander believed in that a king should guide his people down the path with his own goals and dreams, and Gil was greed for oneself over all.

I honestly believe in Iskander's way of thought. That a king should be the one that creates passion and drive in the hearts of his people by giving purpose through sharing his goals and dreams with them. He's also a total bro.

Saber is a total failure

>>157467045
All wrong, a king should lead with his dick, no one can beat the dick.

>>157467108
i can beat their dick, including seiba dick

>>157467108
I beat my dick everyday

>>157466651
Depends. Saber was the most idealistic, but didn't go about it well. Alexander was the most heroic, but that doesn't necessarily translate into the greatest net happiness. Girugamesh is just selfish and it's hard to like that in a serious way.

Ultimately they are all monarchs and are thus just varying shades of dog feces.

>>157466859
In that case it would be Gil because even if Saber is correct she isn't right.

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>>157466651
>Mystic, Instinct, or Valor?

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Solomon.

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>>157466677
>Triple 6 and double 7
This guy is right

Macedonia hasn't been relevant since Alexander died. They're probably still very proud of him tho.

Most of the population of Irak wouldn't even know Gilgamesh.

So yeah, Arthur wins.

>>157466651
Gil of course if you want stable rule

Iskander if you want one great ruler

Saber if you want everything to fall apart in 10 minuets

All depends on the kingdom,the people, and the time. If there was one right way to rule someone would have figured it out and taken over the entire planet by now.

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>>157470841
>forgetting cultural conquest

>>157470778
>Gil of course if you want stable rule
Archer Gilgamesh is a literal shit ruler who never run his kingdom and let it become destroyed without giving a damn. You're thinking Ko Gil or Caster Gil (who is old but looks young for fujobucks).

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>>157466651
Enkidu.

Since King Arthur is a mythological figure then it couldn't be Saber that's right.

>>157471054

Doesn't Japan have an independence day?

>>157471631
Gilgamesh also isn't real and Iskander is nothing like the real life Alexander the Great.

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>>157466651
Lame posers. Let me give you a lessoin in 2 simple steps:

1. Let them eat cake
2. Viva la France!

>>157471809
>Gilgamesh also isn't real
Yes, he is.

>Gilgamesh is generally seen by scholars as a historical figure, since inscriptions have been found which confirm the existence of other figures associated with him in the epic. If Gilgamesh existed, he probably was a king who reigned sometime between 2800 and 2500 BC.[5]

>>157471747
Why a nation that never was a colony would have an Independence Day? Are retarded or something?

>>157472015
Read your own quote
>Other figures associated with him
>If Gilgamesh existed

>>157471837

Where's the Guillotine when I need it?

Going by what standards? In terms of past records, literally all of them fucking failed. In terms of people's happiness, Saber; in terms of pure conquest, Alex. I'm not really sure why Gil was there for, he just wanted shit for himself.

>>157467045
Hello there secondary

>>157472714
Can you not fucking read?
>Gilgamesh is generally seen by scholars as a historical figure

>>157467316
>implying divine right to rule isn't the objectively superior form of government

>>157466651
>Arturia
>right
pick one

>>157472844
How can you rule by divine right if there is no divine being?

>>157470778
Have you actually read the legends? Iskandar's kingdom literally fell apart because he had no fucking plan after he died and all his generals squandered that shit. Gil was too depressed about Enkidu to give a shit about his city. Arthur was the only one who actually cared, and the strife at Camelot was literally not even his fucking fault.

>>157466651

Nowadays since we live in a world which is mostly a democracy. Saber would be the one that the majority would pick. However its clear that the narration here wants you to side with Iskander

>>157472714
Read it yourself; if he's generally seen as a historical figure by those in the profession, then he's presumably a historical figure. You can't verify that he exists in the same way that you can't verify that Moses existed.

>>157472839
That's the same vein as Arthur though -- based off of some random historical figure seen as a local hero. Unless you mean to say there literally existed someone who was 2/3 god and 1/3 man who lost his immortality to a fucking snake.

>>157472885
*tips*

>>157466651
While I absolutely adore Iskandar's ideals, I gotta admit that they're pretty bad to actually be King and rule a society and Gil is pretty much "Fuck you, I'm King because I'm a Myself", so the right one is Saber.

>>157472883
Butcher pls

>>157472997
Thank you, I could expect no other response.

>>157466651
I forgot who, but Saber lost easily. The entire point to her character in most adaptions is how fucking naive her ideals are.

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>>157472885
In Nasuverse, YHWH is confirmed to exist by the existence of Solomon. You can argue that it's not necessarily a 100% omnipotent 'incarnation' of YHWH, but it's still the basic idea of an all-powerful, above-all-others, God.

>>157473176
Someone already responded correctly.

>>157473334
彼の正しさはただ正しいだけのものだ

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>>157466651
Gilgamesh. Gilgamesh is the most unspooked character in all anime.

>>157472104
uhh

>>157473769
Good Lord. Who made that, and where can I get one myself? Is that something that I missed on /lit/?

Saber, show frames rider as right though.

>>157469231
Go kiss your FRENCH queen's feet, old chap.

>>157473769
property is a spook.

>>157469231
Fun thing Arthur is the only one thats not real

>>157474092
>gilgamesh was real

I have some bad news for you.

>>157473958
But spooks are only bad if they stand in the way of doing whatever you want to do.

>>157466651
It is subjective. There is no right or wrong.

>>157474119
Well let's hope property doesn't stand in our way then I guess.

>>157474118
>>157472839

>>157474159
Eastern philosophy, in general, would say that it does.

Alright, better question: who would win in a fight, Stirner or Lao Tzu?

>>157474245
haven't you seen game of death

Lao Tzu

>>157471196
Archer Gil still has memory of his future self. It just so happens that he was summoned during his most arrogant.

So Gil is still right.

>>157466651
Iskander is right about being a king, but Saber would be the best ruler. Ask people whether they would rather live in a kingdom constantly at war, a kingdom where the king can rape anyone whenever he wants, or a kingdom of law, justice and peace, most people would pick the latter.

>>157468164
Solomon's system of ruling as a king is just "do whatever God tells me to do today", though.

>>157474507
Why would you ask the sheep what they want and forget what you want, though?

>>157474305
No; I never got around to watching most of Bruce Lee's work. In what I can see of the film Game of Death, though, I don't see any mention of Lao Tzu. What are you referring to, specifically?

Or are you referring to some 2011 film by the same name?

>>157474961
Because you subscribe to kantian ethics and believe that actions taken to better your fellow man are intrinsically good.

>>157474601
That's the most right thing to do, given an omnipotent god.

In the case of guys like Gilgamesh, wherein they were being given orders by flawed gods who were explicitly dicks, it makes sense that they should go against the deities. But, in Solomon's case, God is literally omniscient and saves all but the most evil of mankind in the end. There's no real reason to go against his will, since he's the highest authority that *can* exist (as opposed to "does exist").

>>157474507
>a kingdom of law, justice and peace
>Arturia ends up basically killing Britain

>>157466992
Ive only ever played the fate/extra (and ccc) games. What is wrong with gilgamesh

>>157475272
>all but the most evil of mankind
In the Torah he only saves the Jews and in the New Testament he only saves the 140 000 nicest Christians.
He doesn't even let rich people (for 33 AD standards, so almost everyone in the modern world, if you account for purchasing power) into heaven.
Non-believers, and polytheists particularly, are fucked in any reading of the Bible.

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>>157474601
So? His rule was perfect. People wanted a perfect benevolent ruler, and they got it (Nasu recently called him the gentle king too). Then he flawlessly led Chaldea, including all the Heroic Spirits inside, as a regular man facing human incineration. Not a single life lost since he assumed leadership there (except for his). His observations about humanity and the world, in general, were correct.

>>157475447
>Jews
Solomon children are the magi.

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>>157475336
How can you only have done the Extra crap? It's literally in the name; it's not supposed to be done first. Though, in my eyes, it's not supposed to be done at all.

>>157469231
Most of the population of Iraq would deny his existence and call him but a kufar myth.

>>157475336
He's a smug alpha male from a period of time where being a smug alpha male was all that mattered.

Also later he's driven insane.

>>157475447
Not the guy you're debating with, but you're extremely misinformed about the bible if you think only 144000 Christians make it into heaven and that he doesn't let rich people in.

https://youtu.be/2_9W8JrAKNg
>every Fate/Zero Kings Banquet thread ever

>>157476223
He's not insane in Zero. He's not really insane in SN either, but he's "less" sane. Unreliable narration has one person call him totally unaffected by the mud; another says that he's been completely driven mad. By that, I say that he's somewhere in between in SN.

>>157476712
He didn't become insane. He's just an asshole.

>>157476844
He can't remember the 5th HGW at all, even with his Clairvoyance. His mind was affected in *some* way, surely.

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The one whose kingdom lasted after his death.

>>157476921
I don't remember that, but he's probably bullshitting about it. It's noted that he regards any timelines where he gets killed as nonsense.

>>157476293
> if you think only 144000 Christians make it into heaven
Some Christian sects believe it, some don't. It is clearly up to interpretation.

>and that he doesn't let rich people in
Jesus very clearly implies that some rich guy from 33AD, despite being as nice as he could be and following every command he could follow, won't make it into heaven because he is rich. So, he leaves it open for some extraordinary circumstances, but it is obvious most people who Jesus would consider to be rich in his time as a desert carpenter wouldn't make the cut.

Some burguer flipper in the US making 8 bucks an hour is probably among the top 1% richest people in the planet, due to Asia and Africa being such shitholes, and since he can also buy things that the guy Jesus rejects in the Bible couldn't hope to in his own time, he should expect a similar answer.

>>157476960

UK?

>>157477317

Jesus says to the man to leave his possessions and follow him. You can't forget that the rich dude asked to be a disciple, and Jesus told him what he had to do. He couldn't do it, couldn't give up his wealth.

If he dropped all his cash and went, he could walk with Jesus. So your burger flipper thing only works if the flipper isn't willing to give up his minimum wage to walk with the Son of God.

>>157467108
Can't beat the dick, man.

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>>157477446

>>157477097
>he's probably bullshitting about it
He tries to see how he won the 4th HGW when questioned; he looks back and his memory shows him the fishing from HA, he gets confused about why, and says outright that he can't remember the events from around then because of the grail mud.

>>157477446
Artoria's Kingdom was Britain. But it was the Britain before the Normans, which she failed to stop. It is like comparing modern Egypt and ancient Egypt and saying it is the same thing.

>>157477490
Even then, my point was that YHVH's requisite for Heaven is not just "be nice".

If you are considered rich, you have to be willing to leave all your possessions. If you don't believe in YHVH, you can't go to heaven at all. And if you worship any gods other than YHVH (even if you worship YHVH as well), you ought to be smitten, with Christian denominations not being able to agree on what constitutes "other gods".

>>157466651
Iskandar isis right when he says the king is a tyrant, because by nature they are. But no human deserves to tyrannise his fellow man -the king must be more than human.

Saber renounces her humanity for the sake of kingship, becoming less than human. Iskandar exemplified the extremes of humanity, living life to its fullest extent -but he was still human. Gilgamesh is Nietzsche's ubermenscht - a force of nature that is more than human.

Gilgamesh was the best king because he represents the idea of "king" best.

>>157466651
Absolutely no one.

can someone tell me tl;dr king arthur story and how it ends? and what changed in the nasuverse version?

>>157477446
>>157477731
>All this wrong

King Arthur is a tale about the last Welsh King fighting off the Anglo-Saxon invaders. I knew fate fags were bad but come on.

>>157466651
Saber

>>157466651
Rider.

Left one is Saber and centre is Gilgamesh.

>>157483122
That's the right answer. You've beaten the truth.

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>>157476960
Checkmate.

>>157476215
Gilgamesh was never real

>>157485816
>>157472839

Ok, scumbags :
WE DON'T KNOW IF GILGAMESH WAS REAL.
WE DON'T KNOW IF ARTHUR WAS REAL.

The only one we are sure lived is Alexander.
Now go read history books or wikipedia before you write something you're not sure about.

Peace.

>>157486220
We know that Arthur wasn't real. What the hell kind of person thinks Arthur was real?
Gil is believed to be real by leading experts. Arthur is believed to be real by 7 year-olds. That is the breadth of the difference.

>>157486327
Well, if you're talking about experts, you may be surprisied to know that Arthur may have lived too.

>>157472891
Yes 1 great Ruler that would be himself

>>157486406
>The details of Arthur's story are mainly composed of folklore and literary invention, and his historical existence is debated and disputed by modern historians.[2]
versus
>Gilgamesh is generally seen by scholars as a historical figure, since inscriptions have been found which confirm the existence of other figures associated with him in the epic. If Gilgamesh existed, he probably was a king who reigned sometime between 2800 and 2500 BC.[5]

One has both an affirmative gesture and a probable fl.; the other has a hung jury and no closely-assigned time period.

They all lead kingdoms which collapsed after their fall. That said, Iskander was able to maintain control over the largest area and most subordinates. He was well loved and respected, and unlike Artoria, was not betrayed and cucked by his best friend.

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>>157466651
no one, because monarchy is always inferior to democracy

>>157477890
He wanted to be a disciple. He couldn't be rich and a disciple. He had to cut ties with his old life, even if his old life was without sin, to join Jesus on that path.
Take in mind, this was when Jesus was alive, before he died to forgive man's sins. So it could be that, the sins of the rich too, are alleviated by his sacrifice.
Thus the rich and poor alike can enter heaven if they are without sin. It's not very godly to care of how much wealth a man has when he can't very well take it with him to the after life anyway, if that wealth had done no harm to ones fellow man, and was spent in no small apart to help more still than any potential harm.

>>157487085
Only when it's a shitty leader.
When it's a good leader monarchy is infinitely superior

>>157466651
They're all shit.

King is a shit concept. End of discussion.

>>157466989

Bingo. There is no ideal king and while none of their ideals was wrong at a base value none of them are right on the same judgement. A true king or leader must do all of those things said at the given time they need to show those ideals. They have to be selfless when its needed, prideful when its needed, and inspirational when its needed.

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>>157466651
Robespierre.

>>157466677
fpbp

>>157472891
He was too depressed, and ran off to gain immortality because of it. But after he lost it, he got his shit together and ended up properly ruling.

>>157466725
This. They're all variously flawed.