Guys, when does this get better than FMA 2003?
I'm at the end of the 5th Lab arc and so far and it's all been pretty underwhelming in comparison. They cut out the hidden chimera scene on the Lior arc and made Rose a worthless character, the Nina arc felt rushed, the ending and aftermath of that were nowhere nearly as heartbreaking as 2003's. Also Hughes isn't getting that much screen time, even though he's supposed to be an important character who'll die later, and there's been a shit load of poorly-timed comedy moments that make the serious moments awkward to watch.
So far I feel like I'm watching a watered-down version of FMA instead of the "true" version like everyone says Brotherhood is. Am I being meme'd or something?
>>157414842
it never does
>>157414842
At episode 2.
The first 10 or so episodes are rushed because they assumed most people already saw FMA 2003
>>157414842
They didn't cut out anything except a few unnecessary chapters in the beginning of the manga. You just feel like it because you've watched the 2003 version first. The 2003 ver had a lot of filler scenes even when it was still following the source material.
It doesn't get suddenly better, in a certain point. It'll gradually grow on you, trust me. It doesn't have 9.26 rating on MAL without a reason. But it's not like EVERYONE loves it.
>>157414842
You got trolled. Happens to the best of us. Now lurk more
The optimal viewing order is watch FMA through Episode 25, then immediately switch to FMA:B and start with Episode 1.
You have to put up with some fill and non-canon story bits in the original FMA, but it handles the character introductions and overall pacing up to a pivotal event much better than FMA:B (which condensed a lot of the story, assuming you'd seen FMA).
After ep. 25, FMA spins off into it's own original canon because the manga wasn't done and isn't worth watching.
Once FMA:B catches up to where you leave off FMA, it's pretty apparent that it's the better show overall.
>>157418022
Nope; the direction, music, and everything else was better in the first 25 episodes of FMA 2003 than in Brotherhood. This doesn't suddenly change after episode 25.
Alright, I just finished the Greed arc and it was a lot better than the previous ones. Though the main villain seems to be Hohenheim, or at least some dude who looks just like him.
I seriously hope that's not Hohenheim, this "evil father" thing has been done to death by this point.
>>157418145
>This doesn't suddenly change after episode 25.
Agreed. It's a slow build-up of nonsense as FMA's directionless plot keeps adding pieces of the real story without a cohesive ending in mind (or, at least, a terrible one). As I said, there are bit and pieces of their made-up story pre-25, but it starts to escalate from there with the introduction of Wrath.
25 is just the best cut-off. Makes for a great "series finale" and jumping-off point.
>>157418022
Thank you for saying 2003 is canon, at least. A lot of people don't understand that 2003 is just as canon as Brotherhood.
FMA '03 has a better first half while Brotherhood has a much better second half.
Both are worth watching, OP, keep going. Brotherhood really picks up and becomes god fucking tier from Greed's first appearance onwards.
>>157418384
Also worth noting that FMA:B's episode 10 is where it catches up to the events of FMA's episode 25 and immediately shifts gears from "recap speed" to slow down to more natural pacing.
>>157418384
>FMA's directionless plot keeps adding pieces
I thought you were taking about Brotherhood at first. There is no "real story" and unless you have an autistic interest in what the "real" work of complete fiction is Brotherhood doesn't have much to offer.
>>157418519
Yeah, it seems to be getting better. The last couple of episodes with Ed and Al's conflict and Hughes' death, even though he didn't have much presence in this show, were actually pretty good.
>>157418628
>There is no "real story"
The manga's story, which FMA closely adheres to until running out of material and spiraling off into OC Donut Steel Rose and Jew Alchemy.
>>157418700
Hughs is more relevant in Brotherhood after his death honestly.
>>157418193Hohenheim is based dad.
>>157414842
It doesn't. 2003 was kino while BH was shounenshit trash. Women shouldn't be allowed to write.
>>157418824
>The manga's story
Didn't happen. Both Brotherhood and 2003 aren't any more real than the other. It's amazing how autists forget that and think that being "canon" automatically makes Brotherhood good.
One thing I loved about Brotherhood (all credit goes to the manga, of course, but props to them for doing it right) is the way they handled Bradley and his fights. Best fucking characterand homunculusby a long shot.
Honestly the only arc of the 2003 anime I didn't like was the arc that introduced Izumi and Wrath. I felt it really slowed down there until the fight with Greed.
After that I felt it picked up again. I know a lot of people hated the big twist, but it didn't really bother me too much. Not saying it was great but I could live with it
Complete newfag,
I know that I will start a fight if I ask which one should I watch so instead I'm gonna ask whether should I watch both of them or not.
>>157419140
Watch both. They are both good for different reasons. The 03 version is more character focused with a darker storyline while Brotherhood is more epic in scope with bigger fights.
But if you only plan to watch brotherhood, watch the 2003 version up til ep 25 then switch over. Brotherhood is basically fastforward mode for the first 10 eps because it assumes you already watched the 03 version.
>>157419140
How about you just watch them before you get spoiled in this thread?
As the anon earlier pointed out watch the OG FMA first till episode 25 then watch brotherhood from episode one to end.
>>157419243
This is horrible advice. Just one or the other or both. Watching half of both is retarded
>>157419271
Well I think his point is you miss out if you just watch brotherhood since as has been pointed out, the beginning of Brotherhood assumes you've already seen 03 and thus skips over/rushes through the stuff 03 covered before splitting off.
Honestly you should just watch both
>>157419271
>>157419311
Different anon who's nearly finished Brotherhood, I had no problem with the pacing for the first few episodes. Perhaps it's only noticeable having seen 03 first?
I am planning on watching 03 next.
>>157419140
I recommend watching all of 03 first then watch brotherhood. Partially because of the aforementioned reasons but partially because Brotherhood has a happier ending than 03 so it may feel more satisfying to watch it second.
>>157419350
Its not that Brotherhood SKIPS stuff exactly, it just has a much faster pacing.
For instance, everything with Shou and Nina happens in like one episode in Brotherhood, while their story takes place over 3-4 episodes in the 03 version.
>>157419395
Perhaps because I knew what was going to happen, but I didn't mind that too much.I mean, surely everyone watching either version knows that Nina ends up as the chimera. The only new thing for me was finding out that she was killed by Scar pretty shortly afterwards. The Greed arc built up the impact of that for me, so I'm not sure how drawing out the arc could have changed for me.
But maybe my opinion will change once I watch 03.
HOLY SHITMUSTANG KILLED ROSSWHAT THE FUCK
If you like characters, plot, and themes, you will prefer FMA 03.
If you like generic shounen garbage, you will like Brotherhood.
Neither one is necessarily better than the other.
>>157419490
This is just a subjective preference thing, but I thought the reveal scene was just better in the 03 version too.
But yeah, see for yourself
Also you and >>157419140
Do yourself a favor. Don't watch Conquerers of Shambala. It was pretty dumb IMO
It doesn't. Stop listening to literal 12 year olds at MAL and lurk more.
You fell for a meme friend.
>>157419018
The manga is the original story. The anime are just adaptations. Brotherhood is the true version of the story because it adapts the original plot. 2003 is non-canon past episode 25.
>>157417337
>It doesn't have 9.26 rating on MAL without a reason
>what is meme phenomenon
The taste of the plebians are shaped by consensus.
>>157419515
Oh, never mind.
>all this talk about plot and characters
>no one mentioning how the animation and art direction for 2003 mops the floor with FMAB
You'd think with a medium called "anime" you wouldn't have so many plebs not caring about the most basic of qualities of a visual medium.
>>157419599
Whether its "canon" doesn't really matter when its an different but official canon.
Both are canon. They are just separate canons.
>>157419642
You are trying to create a false equivalency between derivative works and their originals, and it just doesn't work that way. The manga was created first, it is the true story of FMA and the way the story was intended to be told by its creator. The anime adaptations were made to try to transfer that story into a different medium. 2003 anime ended up veering off and making its own original story that has nothing to do with Fullmetal Alchemist as written by its author. Hence it's not regarded as being relevant to the canon of FMA.
>>157419628
What are you even talking about
>>157419631
I mean thats just generally understood, not really much to debate about it unlike character interpretations.
Like the difference with THIS GUY between the two canons.
>>157419721
FMA 03 was actually created first (or finished first, rather), the manga was still a WIP at the time.
There is no fucking "true story". There are two stories. One is objectively better (FMA 03), one is preferred by retards like you with broken understandings of how storytelling works (manga).
Unless you are looking at religious texts, "canon" is a meaningless distinction.
>>157419721
It is its own canon. Its not canon to the manga or brotherhood, but it is a separate canon.
Sorta like the manga and the rebuild of evangelion are their own canons, but separate from the original anime. They are all "Canon" but they aren't a single canon.
I don't get what is so hard about this. Its not like the FMA author was against the 03 version. She encouraged it since she knew the manga was nowhere near finished and didn't want it to get bogged down by filler/canceled
>>157419728
Envy made Ross look like the one who killed Hughes, so she ended up getting arrested. Then Barry helped her get out of prison and while she was being chased around, she was eventually found by Mustang and apparently burned alive by him.
But that was actually a plan he came up with to fake her death in order to make the real murderer show himself.
>>157419728
>I mean thats just generally understood
Maybe I haven't being in these threads enough then, but I know at least MALfags and other places on the web almost never discuss animation and directing when talking about anime, especially when it comes to the Brotherhood camp in this debate. They have no problem with the bland pastel tones everywhere and utter lack of lighting and shading, as well as boring 1:1 adaptation of manga scenes.
Seriously every scene in Brotherhood has the same washed out look to it, in 2003 every scene has its own tones that match the situation at hand, this does wonders for emotional delivery.
And that fucking OST. I watched FMA2003 in 2009 just before Brotherhood started airing, and the visual/tone differences were staggering. I never got over it and rewatches of both shows did nothing to change my mind.
>>157419827
Oh, right right
Though you probably should have spoilered that since we have newfriends in the thread.
>>157419841
Yeah, I think its just generally accepted that the 03 version's animation and OST blow brotherhood out of the water, regardless of any other feelings between the two.
>>157419785
>FMA 03 was actually created first
You are retarded. Fullmetal Alchemist is a manga written by Hiromu Arakawa, it was not created by Bones. Are you literally this stupid? Bones adapted her manga. She is the author, it is her story. Anything not created by her is not actually true to the story and ergo not canon. That's how it works.
>There is no fucking "true story"
Yes there is. The one written by the person who created the story is the real one because it is her intellectual property. The one cobbled together by some anime script writers is derivative.
When people talk about FMA's setting and the events in it and how stuff works (like Alchemy) they refer to the manga's story, because only Arakawa's ideas matter when it comes to these things.
>>157419786
It's a derivative canon and not relevant to discussions of FMA proper.
>>157419841
I'll admit as a Brotherhood-basher, I've only ever read the manga and seen 03. After seeing how garbage the manga was I never felt inclined to watch the direct anime adaptation.
>>157419631
Brotherhood has a lot better animation overall actually.
>>157419914
Explain pls. I wanna know why you think that.
>>157419885
>Fullmetal Alchemist is a manga written by Hiromu Arakawa, it was not created by Bones. Are you literally this stupid?
FMA is a manga and two different anime series. Are YOU this fucking stupid.
> She is the author, it is her story.
She wrote a story, Bones wrote another, better story.
>the real one because it is her intellectual property.
And the FMA 03 is Bones' intellectual property. Who gives a shit.
>>157419924
In terms of total highly animated action sequences, Brotherhood has more. A lot more.
>>157419947
Don't bother, mangafags like that are delusional. Same with bookfags and other instances of the same phenomenon in other media.
To them, quality doesn't matter, being "faithful to the source material" is some holy grail of a goal that justifies itself above any other aspect of an adaptation.
>>157419990
Shonenfags, everyone.
>>157419914
Eh, at least comparing the the transmutations of their mom, I feel the 03 version was animated better
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_dw1Rzaing
Or the Nina scenes
>Brotherhood
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZVF5DTQbts&t=192s
>03
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdTzcp1YLY8&t=2s
>>157419990
Brotherhood had more action scenes in general. It was more actiony.
Though I'd disagree that the scenes themselves were better animated. And theres more to animation than just action scenes. I'd even argue that better animation in slower scenes is a general hint as to who has better animation.
>>157419947
Yeah, just let it go
It ain't worth it
Why do people discuss whether FMA 03 is canon or not? It's not canon to Brotherhood or the manga, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have its own canon.
That's like saying Ultimate Spider-Man isn't canon because it's not The Amazing Spider-Man. They're just two different series based on the same source material, their canons are separate and should lead to separate discussions regarding each.
>>157419947
FMA is a manga. It has two anime adaptations (derivative media). The story is the one written by Hiromu Arakawa. It was adapted by Bones, twice. The first time they ran out of story to adapt and had to improvise their own story. That story they improvised is not FMA, it's a derivative version of FMA. Because FMA is something created by Hiromu Arakawa, and only she can change its canon. What bones created in 2003 was not FMA but a derivative canon that doesn't really matter to the actual story.
>>157420055
>Though I'd disagree that the scenes themselves were better animated
Then you don't know much about animation.
>>157420087
>Why do people discuss whether FMA 03 is canon or not?
Shitposters.
Arakawa already said she gave it her blessing and considers it a complete story in its own right.
>>157420087
Because nobody cares about derivative canon. The title Fullmetal Alchemist is a well respected one, and 2003fags are eternally butthurt that nobody considers their knockoff part of it officially.
>>157420116
Those are some hot opinions you got there
>>157414842
It got better the instant it was made since it wasn't a divergent fan fiction version not based off the original manga
>>157420055
Just looking at those thumbnails of the Nina scene it's already striking to me how bland and lifeless Brotherhood looks, indeed no lighting or shading or even tone. Playing them side by size there isn't even a contest, jesus fuck.
Brotherhood has more focus on fights by the way so of course they'd be better choreographed (not necessarily animated as a whole). It's a battle shonen more than anything while 2003 is character/drama focused.
>>157420142
You don't represent everybody
The author herself blessed the adaptation. Its just as valid as her manga
I read the manga and watched both, and I have to say that the manga finale is very...plain. It's standard shonen antics, down to the final boss fight. I couldn't care less about the characters from notChina and the power of friendship uniting everyone.
2003 had a terrible final episode and that's it. The entire build up, the darker plot, characters (well most of them), everything is better in 2003, fuck the original plot. And I'm not even talking about the superb production.
>>157420188
No it isn't. Because the title "Fullmetal Alchemist" can only pertain to one story, and that is the original story written by Hiromu Arakawa. If you were to look up the entry for a story by that name, the manga is what you would find. The 2003 anime will never, ever own that name because they diverged from the manga's story. It will forever be counted as a separate canon not relevant to "Fullmetal Alchemist". Which is the whole reason they made Brotherhood, actually. I'm amazed I have to explain this when the very existence of Brotherhood proves that nobody considers 2003 the real FMA.
@157420168
You didn't work hard enough to earn this (You).
>>157418995
I think you're pretty retarded
>>157420142
>canon
>officially
Who the fuck cares about this kind of autism, when we got the objectively better show? Go masturbate to your "canon" as if that somehow means anything when it comes to the final quality of the show.
>It's good because it's faithful to the manga
Do the people who say this know how retarded they look? That their argument has no meaning at all beyond some arbitrary concept of a "canon" and NOT the quality of the work?
Watch Brotherhood or read the manga. That's when it gets good.
>>157420261
You do, apparently, since you're trying so hard to prove your shitty derivative work is somehow "the original story" or whatever. If it didn't matter then you wouldn't care about 2003 being classified as non-canon and a minor derivative work. But you do care, hence your butthurt.
>>157420142
>Because nobody cares about derivative canon
Sure they do. Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones, The Witcher, Gungrave, Trigun, The Shining; every single superhero adaptation ever made. Though each one invites autists who obsess over what's canon even though neither the adaptation or the book its based on actually happened.
Stop responding to the autistic manga fag. Just let it go
>>157420191
2003 was full of plotholes and completely trashed the character arcs of major characters.
>>157420278
I'm doing no such thing. I was about to say I'm proving it's the superior work, not the "original" because that doesn't hold any value whatsoever, but I quickly realized that this is already pretty self-evident by anyone with two brain cells to hold together and the time to sit down and watch both.
You're arguing with two people by the way, or more.
>>157420293
Everything you listed just proves you have no clue what you're talking about. Original works are canon, anything derived from them is "secondary" meaning wherever they contradict the source material they are wrong, and if they contradict the source material hard enough they are non-canon.
>>157420346
I bet you hated fight club for not being accurate to the book
>>157420346
Yes. Those are all derivatives that people care about. Brotherhoodfags are so dumb that if the Gungrave game was more mainstream they'd try to argue that it's better than the anime because "muh canon."
>>157420386
I thought fightclub was a fine movie. I dont' really care about its canon though because it's not that interesting of a movie to talk about. For constructed settings like FMA, LotR, Witcher, whatever, keeping straight what is and is not accurate requires a canon hierarchy.
>>157420411
Dude
You are dumb I'm sorry
>>157420403
>Those are all derivatives that people care about.
Nobody cares about their "canon" though. Because when you start talking about the canon of a derivative source work it just gets conflicted by the fact that it is itself contradicting the canon of its source material. Hence, fans of constructed settings, actual fans, don't care about derivative canon. They only care about source canon.
>>157420346
Define "canon" you weirdo.
>>157420459
You act like whether its the original canon is the be all and end all for the quality of a story. Honestly its probably one of the least relevant parts of whether a story is good or not.
You could make multiple reasoned arguments that the 03 adaptation is inferior to the manga/brotherhood.
But saying its bad because its not completely faithful to a work that was incomplete at the time of the making is probably the worst argument you could make.
Anyone that seriously thinks that the 03 adaptation is anything but a steaming pile of shit compared to BH is fucking retarded. The shitty lackluster ending of the 03 series alone should be enough to keep people fro, ever re-watching it.
>all the faggots that pretended they never liked fma 2003 until brotherhood after they found out it didn't follow the manga to a t
>>157420463
Things that are true according to the work itself (i.e. facts you can back up with examples from the work). The highest priority of canon is work created by the original author. Because derivative works are based on his ideas, the original author's ideas are present in multiple derivative versions of their work. Whereas derivative canon only pertain to themselves. You can't apply the logic or reasoning within a derivative work to everything else in the franchise the way you can with the original author's ideas.
Example: FMA's manga says alchemy requires a transmutation circle, but if you see the Truth you don't need to use it. This is canon that applies to every single version of FMA derived from her work. Yet the 2003 anime has it own canon that says Alchemy is powered by the souls of the dead from an alternate dimension. This isn't relevant to anything but the 2003 series, it's non-canon for the manga and pretty much every other derivative version of FMA.
That is the hierarchy.
>>157420545
I never mentioned quality at all. I actually like a lot of things about the 2003 anime. But it's still just a derivative work and isn't really canon.
>>157419018
Brotherhood isn't good because it's canon, it's good because it's satisfying. Giving the ending the "Now it's MY turn to sacrifice myself for my brother" treatment twice in a row (more if you slog through the movie) is a particularly large middle finger for those of us who put up with the nonsense that preceeded it.
Brotherhood reached nearly the same level of ridiculousness towards the end, but had a more satisfying conclusion that resulted in less hand-waving and plot conveniences.
>>157420634
>Things that are true according to the work itself (i.e. facts you can back up with examples from the work).
So by """"the work itself"""" you are referring to the FMA manga and just the manga? Because all those other things are works too.
>. Yet the 2003 anime has it own canon
Yep seems like you get it. Manga has its canon, 03 anime has its canon. 2 stories, 2 canons. One story/"canon" (03 anime) is better than the other. Easy peasy pie.
>>157420655
...
This is the dumbest argument I've had this week. If you like the 03 version, why do you care this much?
>>157420726
Care about what? From the start I only jumped in because people are saying stupid shit like the 2003 anime is canon when it isn't. That's not an opinion, it's fact.
>>157420725
2003's canon isn't FMA canon. It's a derivative canon which is irrelevant to Fullmetal Alchemist as a whole.
>>157420856
Nobody was even talking about how canon the 03 version was til someone, likely you, started bitching about how it wasn't canon.
>>157420886
It's not canon.
>>157420886
see >>157418628
First post where somebody started erroneously asserting there's "no real story" which is just plain incorrect.
>>157420952
You troll
>>157420684
>Now it's MY turn to sacrifice myself for my brother
Done in a different thematic context, adding to the point introduced by Dante earlier about how equivalent exchange does not properly describe reality. Ed was forced to accept this and rather than simply sacrifice himself, attempted to bring back Al knowing that the results may not be so clear cut either way, topping off a general loss of innocence and maturation that had been going on ever since he offed Greed. Brotherhood was thematically vacuous, starts with equivalent exchange and never forces Ed to grow in anyway.
>>157420873
It's another FMA canon that isn't Brotherhood or the manga's canon, but it's still part of the FMA franchise. How the hell is this so hard to get?
If you want to consider one canon and the other non-canon, then do whatever suits yourself. But don't start being autistic and assuming that everyone else shares your point of view of what's canon and what's not.
>>157418022
What's ideal is to watch 03, then Brotherhood, and complete both. That way, you can judge for yourself what ending and plot progression you liked better.
>>157421006
It's a fanfic of the manga so it's not canon.
>>157421006
>It's another FMA canon that isn't Brotherhood or the manga's canon
Which makes it irrelevant. Look at this from the perspective of somebody who wanted to write a new story set in the FMA setting. They contact Arakawa and get her blessing to do, say, a LN series focused on the Ishval Rebellion. They want to make sure the characters, names, places, and dates all sync up with the manga so that it doesn't contradict anything and can fit seamlessly into the manga's canon.
The 2003 anime doesn't matter in this instance, nobody would try to make a derivative work of a derivative work, especially one that so drastically contradicts its source material so as to make itself totally pointless to refer to when trying to expand the setting.
>>157421006
Just stop arguing
This argument is so dumb. Hes being autistic and I feel dumb for arguing about it this long
>autistic "canon" talk
Every single thread.
I wonder why Brotherhoodfags always seem to aggressively push into this direction, and are never willing to discuss the actual merits of their adaptation or the 2003 one. Really makes you think.
>>157421054
Whatever helps you sleep at night, mangafag
>>157420978
Anyone I don't agree with is clearly trolling
>>157421117
What's there to even talk about in the 2003 anime? Its worldbuilding is non-canon so you can't really do any speculation.
>>157420055
>the comments
>>157421117
Every discussion I've seen about the 2003 anime is just a circlejerk over how much cooler, darker, and better it is than Brotherhood.
>>157421195
Whoops meant for >>157421158
>>157421117
Because it's impossible for there to be coherent discussion between the two groups due to how different 2003 is. It has totally different plot, totally different character arcs, completely different setting. So no meaningful discussion can happen between 2003 fans and Brotherhood fans. Brotherhood fans who want to talk about the setting want to use Manga/Brotherhood canon as their basis, and 2003 fans want to use their anime's canon. So no shit the discussion shifts into what is actually canon.
>>157421195
Just like every discussion about Brotherhood is a circlejerk over how much more faithful to the manga it is, or how 2003 is "edgy" and whatnot.
Both shows have been tainted by autistic manchilds who want to push their opinions as unquestionable truths.
>>157421158
What the fuck are you talking about? Speculation? About what?
It's done, the show is done, both of them, there is nothing to speculate. What does "canon" have to do with everything that goes into the show? About its actual quality? Animation, plot, directing, OST, characters, pacing... what? Fucking nothing, nothing is stopping anyone from talking about the shows on their own merits, but Brotherhoodfags never do this, they just go to this "it's not canon" route.
I can't believe someone can be this autistic.
>>157421293
No, that only happens when 2003fags enter the thread. Discussion of FMA without 2003 fags is focused on characters and worldbuilding.
>>157421322
I'm pretty sure the same thing happens when a thread about 2003 is created and Brotherhoodfags enter in.
Really, they're not much different besides which one of the two is their favorite show. That's why I prefer to just tell people to watch both and enjoy whatever they want.
>>157421302
You don't strike me as a person who has much exposure to fantasy or constructed settings. Talking about the setting, the characters, the world its set in are all popular topics for series like FMA. Speculating how things work or what happened in an event that was only alluded to, and supporting your theories with evidence from the work. That's how such discussions usually go among fans. I'm not sure what kind of community you belong to where discussion takes the form of asserting how "good" something is or circlejerking over animation like this is sakugabooru.
For talking about the stuff I mentioned earlier, it's important to know what is actually canon.
>>157421400
Except 2003fags never talk about setting or characters or worldbuilding because they know it doesn't matter because their series isn't canon anymore. They just sit around talking about how they totally cried when Lust died or whatever.
>>157421322
No shit THIS type of discussion (which adaptation is better) only happens when "2003fags" enter a thread, why would it otherwise? The difference is how each camp goes about it, and how Brotherhoodfags can only stand on "it's better because it's faithful to the manga" or at best "it's less edgy".
>>157421302
If we decide to consider them separate works, is there really any reason to compare them? Why not compare 2003 to Hunter x Hunter instead? Or Scrapped Princess?
What context actually creates a need to compare it to Brotherhood specifially, and not any other anime instead?
>>157421441
I've never once used the phrase "it's better because it's faithful to the manga" nor did I ever imply such in my statements. I only ever stated, and I still contend, that 2003 is totally irrelevant to any meaningful discussion of FMA because it's not canon.
>>157421083
FMA '03 has arguably more derivative work based around its canon than Brotherhood does. But why does that matter? Both series are done and neither of them are getting any derivative work.
Seems like you just want to push your favorite as the true "canon" one.
>>157421469
Good question, but the answer is basically the shared material they both cover. Everyone acknowledges they are different shows when 2003 diverges from the at the time non-existing source.
The discussion is mostly centered around how both shows adapt the same material. Hence why Brotherhood being rushed and badly paced is such a big talking point, since it assumes you already watched 03.
>>157421503
I can't believe you still don't get it after I explained it so clearly. Only the manga canon matters because everything else is only canon insofar as it doesn't contradict the source material. What happens in the 2003 anime only matters when you talk about the 2003 anime and nothing else. So when you try to talk about FMA as a whole, it's setting, world building, etc, only the manga canon really matters, and secondary canon that doesn't contradict it. Anything in derivative works that explicitly contradicts manga-canon is non-canon and doesn't matter when you're trying to have a discussion about the story's plot, setting, characters etc.
>>157421611
"FMA as a whole" includes '03 because it's part of the franchise. Your point all along is that you should consider the two separate canons, which was something everyone has been doing for all these years? Gee, thanks for the advice, mate.
You fuckers saying Brotherhood has no thematic deepness. You're stupid.
Let's take a random element:
Alchemists need transmutation circles, unless they see the truth behind the door.
The door is inscribed with the Tree of Life, an all important symbol that is related to Kaballah, which alchemy heavely borrows from. As seen on my image, it can be divided in 4 "worlds".
The first world, is the material world, the world we live in. The sphere on it, malkuth, represents the material
The second world, is the formative, the realm of your mind and toughts. It's composed of Yesod, the imagination, the link between the real and your toughts, Hod, rationality, and Netzach, Emotion.
The third world, is the creative world, the world of spirit and drive. It's where what YOU are is made. It's composed of Tipheret, the sphere of essence, related to your solar sign, what you emanate. Geburah, Power, related to self-discipline and drive. Chesed, Mercy, related to teaching and charity.
The fourth world is the world of archetypes. it's the realm of GOD, and you may notice there are three spheres, Binah, understanding, the great limitator, UNDERSTANDING, Chokmah, KNOWLEDGE, all that exists. beyond them is Kether, and that is GOD itself, beyond knowledge. those three are what originated the concept of the Holy Trinity in Christianity.
You might've noticed, that the path between tipheret and kether is uncharacteristically long, the path between the essence of man and god itself, the path between the individual and power over all that is. You, see, there is a hidden sephirah between them, known as Daath, the abyss. This is the final objective of kaballah, and by consequence of alchemy. To
reach god. to create the elixir to eternal life. To know the TRUTH. So, it makes perfect sense, and is a POWERFUL methaphore, that alchemists who've attained the truth, due to great sacrifice, have the deep understanding, to acess the power of god directly, without a transmutation circle.
>>157422211
And you don't want me to get started on the Father being a homunculus that tries to become god by removing his "seven deadly sins", and in that also removing what makes him human....
Uh, I guess this thread got derailed then.
Anyway, I'm actually enjoying Brotherhood now. The episode whereEd and Al discover that the thing they transmuted back then isn't really their momsold me, it took a while for the show to start to grab me, but it happened.
AlsoI didn't expect Lust to die so soon, she had a big role in 2003 and was one of my favorite characters from that show, I thought it was going to be the same here.Still, it was a pretty badass Mustang scene.
>>157422387
Oh, sorry for the spoiler-ridden thread. I hope you enjoy it. I find the plot better, even if I like some of the cinematography and color choices in 03' more.
>>157422387
I'm sorry anon. It's part of Equivalent Exchange: you get two nice anime, you lose the fanbase's shit.
>The episode whereEd and Al discover that the thing they transmuted back then isn't really their momsold me,
That episode is among my favorites, even if they left out one of my favorite dialogues from the manga (it's pic related). Hohenheim's introduction, Edward's nigthmare, the digging, the phone conversation with Izumi... even Winry's little moment at the end, It's one great scene and revelation after another.
>>157414842
NeverBut muh manga... Arakawa sensei[spoiler/]
>>157422387
Expect a lot of characters to change drastically compared to '03, it really is that different.
>>157414842
It was widely regarded as better than 03 when it was airing. It's funny seeing all of the contrarians come out of the woodwork to shit on it years later, but it's basically expected by now. Happens with every single remake.
>>157422880
Damn, it does suck that they left this scene out. But I agree it was a great episode, so far it's my favorite and raised my expectations for the rest of the show significantly.
>>157423794
I didn't watch Brotherhood back when it was airing because I kinda got tired of FMA and had other shows to check out as well. I just recently decided to give it a shot and... yeah, I wasn't really liking it at first, but as my other posts show, I'm enjoying it quite a lot. It's been getting better and better since the Greed arc.
>>157423794
Saying Brotherhood is better is actually contrarian, considering how obviously superior 03 is where it counts. Which is, you know, animation, art direction, pacing, tone, character development, music, and other such things that aren't related to being faithful to the source or doing generic shonen garbage like not knowing how to place comedic relief scenes in a show made for TV.
See videos for an example of most things I said being better:
>>157420055
>>157422211
>>157422263
You're doing God's work, anon.
>>157424071
>Saying Brotherhood is better is actually contrarian
Absolutely delusional
>>157424120
If someone can't see how better directed, paced and animated 03 is then I'd say he's more delusional than I could ever be.
>b-b-but most people
Doesn't matter, the majority isn't always right, this being a clear example. Brotherhood is one of the most overrated pieces of anime in existence.
>>157424168
Pacing in 03 is absolute dogshit. When Brotherhood was airing everyone was relieved that they didn't drag on Al's existential crisis. All that other shit is subjective.
I personally enjoyed the atmosphere, and the ending of FMA 2003 more than brotherhood.
FMA 2003 is not canon as it's not original to the source and such it would have to have the authors approval. Only Arakawa can decide what is canon because it's his original creation. It's not uncommon for an author to accept fanmade material as official and thus it becomes canon.
Canon in this context is basically an exact synonym to official. So FMA 2003 has no bearing on the "Official" FMA universe.
On to the OP. Only you can judge. I prefer 2003. Just like I prefer a lot of covers/remixes of songs than the original song.
>>157424234
>When Brotherhood was airing everyone was relieved that they didn't drag on Al's existential crisis
Yeah because they already watched the superior 03 and got told the character arcs in a proper pacing, so the new show was retreading ground for them. Now imagine Brotherhood's introduction and first few arcs as a standalone work, without prior exposure to 03 or the mange to fall back to. Yeah, have fun with that.
>>157424248
>Arakawa
>his
And the song/remix analogy doesn't work because both adaptations are covers and/or remixes, the original song in that case would be the manga and nothing else, for obvious reasons.
>>157424277
>he's actually defending that terrible subplot nobody liked in the manga or the anime
Yeah, completely delusional.
>>157424234
Even as someone who loves 2003, I have to agree they did drag out that part. I mean, I know why they did it, we got to see a non-evil side of Scar as a result, but the conflict itself between Al and Ed at that point didn't need to still keep going.
Mostly when it stops covering things already covered by the first show. The rushed pacing it has in the first 10 or so episodes is meh.
>>157424314
Typo. For some reason Arakawa made me think about GITS Aramaki so had two thoughts going at once.
The song analogy wasn't meant for anything about canon/source. I was just trying to point out that someone can make a more preferable creation of someone else's work.
>>157422387
Oh nice, you're that far in already?
What'd you think of Riza flipping her shit over Mustang's supposed death? For some reason that still sticks with me.
This could clear up some confusion for anon
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon
>>157414842
>Rose
Why does anyone care about this fucking character, literally less interesting than Yoki
They're supposed to be watched together.
>>157420568
Even the first time I watched 2003 as a kid, I thought it got really fucking stupid towards the end
>>157424788
Because she pretty much ends up replacing Winry as the heroine in 2003. I guess people who are exposed to that version first just assume she is meant to be an important character in all versions.
>>157424601
I knew Mustang wasn't dead and all, but that part did hit me because it showed that Riza cared that much about him. It reminded me a bit of when Archer shot Mustang in 2003 and Riza blamed herself for that.
>>157424788
Wasn't the whole point of the Lior arc to show that people shouldn't be so easily manipulated by the likes of religious leaders who can easily take advantage of them? Rose was the character who represented that theme, and the one who developed the most in the 2003 version of that arc.
>>157414842
Didn't FMA:B also cut stuff out from the beginning because they didn't want to cover the same stuff as the 2003 anime? They assumed most people had seen 2003 anime or read the manga. I thought I read that somewhere.
>>157425253
Massively. One of the biggest criticisms it receives.
>>157425253
>>157425423
And oh it's not just cutting stuff, but obviously not including the stuff that 03 added and expanded upon compared to the manga, so the effect is even more noticeable if you go from 03 to Brotherhood.
03 expands the content of the manga (including making entire character arcs for minor characters like Hughes), Brotherhood streamlines it and rushes through it for the first episodes.
>>157419603
It's more like you're simply a pretentious retard who has your opinions shaped only by the 'anti-consensus'.
>>157420095
Why are you talking to a confirmed retard like he is a normal person? There gets to a point where you just shouldn't respond any more.
>>157418022
People keep saying to make the switch at a certain episode, the thing is the tone and pacing are completely different between both series to the point where they are separate entities altogether.
>>157425960
>>157418022
Yeah this doesn't really work. There's no secret to it, watch 03 and then FMAB in their entirety, anything else will just make things worse. If you have autism attacks and can't fit both versions in your head then just pretend FMA is some sort of "bad end" in a VN route or something, and that FMAB is a different route, or a "true ending". Works for me.
>>157425253
>tfw even Arawaka herself liked the 2003 version
>People on /a/ are still bitching about which is better to this day
Check out what 2003 contributed to brotherhood
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JddlQNV3z5A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VUmrhc08LA
The Armstrong family
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-Hv4GvvHkQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHNWGXOmQZY
and muscle bros. If Armstrong could see you fags bitching and moaning he would weep manly tears.
Its like Rei vs Asuka in the eva threads, we can never really discuss 2003 and Brotherhood without it turning into a shitfest.
>>157425423
Yeah even though Brotherhood isa 10/10 series in my opinion, the fact that they cut things out irks me to this day.
>>157422211
It's clear from manga and thus from Brotherhood that Arakawa really studied western and eastern aclhemical traditions and put them in her story not just as props, for another word for magic but to work in themes and the underlying stories.
>all this autistic canon talk
Jesus Christ.
OP, you're supposed to read the manga and then watch Brotherhood for the cool action animation and last 2003 to laugh at the trademark abysmal BONES original writing.
Does anyone honest to god think 2003 is good after they run out of material from the manga? I'm not asking if you think Brotherhood/the rest of the manga is good I want to know if there is someone who seriously thinks any of the anime original story isn't horrible.
2003 is not canon
even the 3DPD Movie gonna be a adaption of the manga
>>157426489
Aside from the final stretch leaving more questions than answers and that ridiculous mecha Frank Archer shit, there's literally nothing wrong with 2003's second half.
psssh...nothin personnel...Ed...
>>157426623
It's amazing how they took a shit on what was a perfectly decent antagonist up until that point, they should have just had him dying from Scar's transmutation like everyone else.
>>157426623
Reminder that Arawaka gave her blessing to the 2003 script.
>>157426580
Just off the top of my head there's the retarded Mustang Killed Winry's Parents plotline that never has a resolution.
>>157426744
>that never has a resolution
Did you really watch 2003? Winry confronted Mustang about this when she and Sheska were captured, and later in the same episode he states that he regrets killing them and this was the very thing that motivated him to aim for becoming fuhrer.
It wasn't as well executed as the storyline with Scar in Brotherhood, but it's not something that gets brought up and just forgotten for the rest of the show like some people make it seem.
>>157426869
Like most of 03 it's not really that it was bad but it was pretty clear it was someone else piecing together the end to someone else's story. There was some resolution but it was abrupt and unmemorable because this writer only wrote half of the story.
>>157419993
you are delusional. We don't want some shitty fanfiction spinoff, of course we want it faithful to the writer's source material.
>>157426623
What the fuck am I looking at?
03 had some good stuff going for it, but then Wrath happened, and then Dante happened, and then Earth 1 happened and then the Nazi's happened, and it all went to shit.
>>157426982
This storyline that Mustang killed Winry's parents specifically was actually in the show even before it started to diverge from the manga. Mustang felt depressed when he reminded of that event, he didn't get insane on finding Hughes' murderer because he knew that Hughes himself wouldn't want that and his primary motivation is to become fuhrer to avoid more innocent deaths.
Later on there was even a scene where he was about to enter Hughes' house, but he saw that Winry was there and didn't come in anymore, because he knew she was the daughter of the couple he killed and it wouldn't be very nice to meet her.
Not that 2003 doesn't have its plot elements that feel abrupt or just not fleshed out enough, but this one in particular was pretty good to me. Mustang feels like shit and wants to fix his past mistake by becoming a leader who will protect his people, and even if his past still haunts him and he failed to protect his best friend, he still kept focused on his task and in the end he let Winry know about how he feels about killing her parents.
>>157414842
2003 is still absolute shit with the 100% fanfiction second part and first part was also full of filler shit and added rape and brown Rose for no reason whatsoever. Literally a edgy anime to make Linkin Park AMVs.
>>157427252
Also fucking this
>>157426623
Jesus, what were they thinking?
>>157414842
The anime version rushes a lot of early stories with the assumption you saw the 2003. Unfortunately it STILL cut out a significant amount of content from the manga version.
If you want the 'full' experience of the Brotherhood version, go with the manga
>>157427252
2003 was fine for the most part with character's that they already had a generally idea on how to write but everything they had to create one themselves they bungled consistently.
I finished FA and Brotherhood awhile back, should I also watch Conqueror of Shamballa and all the other addon series I didn't know existed till now?
>>157427463
How much do you want to see more stories set in the universe because I don't think i'd recommend those to anyone but hardcores.
>>157427463
If you like FMA, sure. Both movies are well directed and animated, but the writing is questionable.
>>157427463
>should I also watch Conqueror of Shamballa
no it's awful
>>157427252
Wrath and Dante aren't bad characters at all, but I agree that the alternate Earth and Nazis were stupid additions.
>>157427550
The parallel world was actually well-integrated into the story, it was Conqueror of Shamballa that made it retarded with the nazis and shit.
>>157427463
Conqueror of Shambala is the final episode of the first anime, so you should watch it if you want to know how that continuity ends.
Star of Milos is an extra adventure that doesn't affect either continuity, you can take it as a very expensive animated fanfiction.
Brotherhood's OVAs (The Blind Alchemist, Simple People. Izumi's Training and Another Man's Battlefield) are actually extra episodes, they are not essential to the story but they flesh out Brotherhood's cast.
>>157427731
Brotherhood's OVAs are also adaptations of extra chapters Arakawa did for the guidebooks.
>i'm less than 8 episodes in why isn't there more focus on the filler content from the original series
bait thread
>>157427919
>why isn't there more focus on things the original series did better
FTFY
>>157427512
>>157427514
>>157427534
>>157427731
Neat, thanks for the info anons.
>>157427731
Star of Milos also has Lina Inverse in it
For some reason
>>157428861
...I'm sorry, what?
>>157429071
>>157429097
I'm sorry, WHAT?
>>157428861
>>157429097
you're shitting me
>>157418022
This is retarded
Just watch both series
>>157426623
To top it all off, his only purpose plot-wise was to shoot Mustang in the back.
Hunter x Hunter is still the best shounen FMAfags. Also dont mention jojo and gintama on their level, they are absolute trash compared to hunter.
03 did the Homonculi muuuuuch better
They were ctually tied to the established more with real stories behind them instead of being glorified minibosses
Greed and Wrath were good in Brotherhood though
>>157414842
From what I can tell FMA:Bfags are just forever buttblasted that 2003, that a story which isn't the authors "pure" vision, will always be the more famous and remembered version. They're in fact so anally devastated by it that they go fucking everywhere and spam about how much better B was than 2003 in order to make sure that everyone knows it.
Ironically, since 2003 finished well before the author ever finished the manga, 2003 actually is the original story.