Why do people say LoGH treats war like nobody is the bad guy

>>156991140
Yeah, that's why his name is Yang.

File: 1492810679751.jpg (47KB, 500x372px) Image search: [Google]

47KB, 500x372px

>>156991140
Yang > Reinhard

Come at me

File: reinhardt.png (2MB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1920x1080px

>>156991557
I won't fight with a disgusting plebeian, sorry

>>156991140
The results of both sides are ultimately futile. Reinhard's dynasty will eventually become like the Goldenbaum Dynasty.
Yang's Democracy will eventually degrade and become a corrupt cesspool like the FPA. It's all history just repeating itself

File: According to a.jpg (156KB, 1000x666px) Image search: [Google]

156KB, 1000x666px

>>156991779
The Empire is a system where the government is corrupt and the citizens have a low standard of living.

The Alliance is a system where the government is corrupt and the citizens have a high standard of living.

Democracy > Autocracy

>>156991779

That's the moral of the history, dumb faggot. Heinessen were what Yang is today and Goldenbaum were what Reinhard is today.

>>156992904

>The Empire is a system where the government is corrupt and the citizens have a low standard of living.

Empire's government is rightful.

>The Alliance is a system where the government is corrupt and the citizens have a high standard of living.

Income between the population of both civilizations were pretty equal. The richest on lived in Phezzan (like Hong Kong/Singapore).

>>156993028
I don't remember the FPA military ever ordering its citizens to surrender their food and supplies. The FPA citizens certainly never get sold into totally-not-slavery for the upper class. And while the FPA government might use police force if you riot, you'll never be arrested/tried/executed by the secret police for merely criticizing the government.

The corrupt Empire was much worse than the corrupt Alliance.

File: 1480478565249.png (319KB, 432x600px) Image search: [Google]

319KB, 432x600px

they were both hypocrites who sent countless soldiers to their deaths for their romanticized ideologies and delusions.

Oberstein was the only one who did what was necessary to save the greatest number of human lives.

File: PKC_(BD).jpg (263KB, 1280x960px) Image search: [Google]

263KB, 1280x960px

>>156993249
>you'll never be arrested/tried/executed by the secret police for merely criticizing the government.

>>156993580
That's not the FPA, those are Terraists. Weren't you paying attention?

>>156991140
There are a lot of children that think killing lots of people over an ideal that doesn't work in practice, when there's a practical alternative already in place, is somehow noble.

>>156992904
>empire
>corrupt
Cite a single event.

>>156993249
>you'll never be arrested/tried/executed by the secret police for merely criticizing the government
Remember when they detained Yang?

>>156993771
When the FPA arrested Yang, they didn't try to execute him.

When the Empire-run Vichy-FPA arrested Yang, they tried to execute him.

Really makes me think.

File: 1485320527336.jpg (747KB, 1024x3777px) Image search: [Google]

747KB, 1024x3777px

>>156993732

>>156993849
Yet you aren't denying that he was arrested?

Face it: The FPA was infinitely corrupt. They ran a tightly knit circle of cookie cutter politicians. They made absolutely no consideration for the public interests and actively destroyed their whole nation without public approval. At best, it's only a matter of circumstance that they never had to suppress revolts. At worst, it's because something inherent in the system prevented people from revolting in spite of submitting to the absolute worst possible system.

>>156994008
That must have happened during the Goldenbaum dynasty.

>>156994139
The Goldenbaum Dynasty lasted for hundreds of years.
The Goldenlöwe Dynasty we saw maybe 2 years of.

The latter does not absolve the sins of the former. When looking at the overall picture, on average the FPA is a much, much, much better place to live than the Empire.

>>156992904
Everyone on both sides acknowledges Reinhard's dictatorship is better than FPA's shitty democracy, but that Reinhard wouldn't last long.

>>156991140
He was more or less doing his job that he enlisted for as per his goverment, same as people on the empires side were doing. Yang just looked for the solution to cause least loss of life possible while completing his mission for his side.

>>156994102
>Face it: The FPA was infinitely corrupt.
I agree that it was corrupt, but I don't see how you can argue that it was more corrupt than the Empire.

All corruption in the FPA can be found in the Empire too, except the Empire has even greater disparity between the classes, and even harsher punishments for more minor infractions.

>>156994293
That's complete nonsense. You're comparing the actions of a defunct government, which must have occurred decades prior to its end, to the ongoing actions of the FPA.

>>156994424
>All corruption in the FPA can be found in the Empire too
Nice meme. Back it up with a single fact and I'll be amazed.

>>156994427
>a defunct government
Not for half of the series.

And there is no guarantee that the state of affairs in the Empire won't return to Goldenbaum-levels of corruption once Reinhard is gone.

>>156994102
FPA were corrupt but as Yang explained, the right the people had unlike the Empire was the ability to vote and overthrow it at any point and time. In the Empire only a handful of people could even hope to influence any change. Generals and people of power were given entire fucking planets and told "rule the people how you want", most were given basics to live on thats why everything looked like it was the 1800's

>>156994472
It's pretty much the motivation for Reinhard and Oberstein during the first half of the series. They want to end the Goldenbaum Dynasty precisely because it is so awful.

>>156991140
Is this the anime that /pol/ really likes?

>>156994540
Who gives a shit what pol likes? If pol said they like chicken would you let that have effect on your thought of chicken?

>>156994599
Calm down faggot. Just wanted to know if it was this anime. If so I will give it a try

>>156994650
>giving it a try because /pol/ does like it
Just as bad!

>>156994537
That was mostly because of the king's incompetence, all he ever did was fuck around and tend to his garden.

>>156994700
How so /pol/ has better anime/manga taste than /a/. Made a berserk thread on both /a/ and /pol/. /pol/ thread was more popular, had better content and discussion + didn't get removed.

Am going to watch this

>>156994650
It is

>>156994490
It was originally said "The Empire IS," not "The Empire was" or "The Empire could be."

Besides: Pitting hypothetical corruption against real corruption is completely unfair.

The main issue with LOGH was the autistic pacing/exposition and tone.

Like all the space battles are clean and treated as a sort of game. Yet like midway through the series you can tell some Jap realized this and included some obscenely gorey scene of showing people dying alive in ships. It serves no narrative purpose and nothing like it is ever seen before or after. As if "see, we showed how bad war is...Now lets get back to sleepy yang"

>>156994522
>he actually believes that their votes mattered
Wew lad. It was all a show. The fact that the public's input wasn't even considered when the FPA government made the decision that brought the whole thing down should tell you that the public was powerless.

>>156994773
It was because of EVERY Kaiser's incompetence/greed other than Reinhard.

We know of about ~492 years of the Empire's history. 2 of those years were pretty good. 490 of those years were pretty bad.

On average, the Empire was pretty bad.

>>156994859
How exactly could they show how bad war is without doing it wrong, in your opinion? You seem to be objecting to the fact that they don't do it 24/7.

>>156994910
And that was the fault of the citizens not caring to the point where the government became a fault, this was clear to yang and reinhard throughout the series.

File: C_WublMVwAA3HVT.jpg (472KB, 1594x2021px) Image search: [Google]

472KB, 1594x2021px

So the new anime's still happening apparently.

>>156994910
Remember the FPA high council scene, very early in the series?

The high council voted to invade Imperial territory, because without a military victory the citizens would vote them out of office in the next election, and a peace-seeking administration would be voted in instead.

Votes matter.

>>156994812
Don't split hairs on tenses.

It's the future.

File: Yang cap.gif (575KB, 500x376px) Image search: [Google]

575KB, 500x376px

>>156991779
This guy gets it. Both are terrible systems.

>>156995029
it's probably going to be awful

>>156995112
You say that about everything.

>>156991140

is the remake still a thing or it is kill?

>>156995101
Pretty much, the point of the series was to show that basically all systems of governments throughout the series that were implemented had flaws all essentially due to the human flaw. It wasn't really showing anything more than that

>>156994930
Yeah, but the story was presented from FPA's perspective, so I'd like to think it's biased.

>>156994998
What's your point? The people had no power because the people didn't care. The cause of their powerlessness does not change the fact that they were powerless.

>>156994650
Nope, was Kancolle. The ship girls.

>>156991140
The moral is everyone is wrong and my ideology is right. Applies to the story's politics and the discussions about it.

>>156995256
Reinhard and Oberstein are the FPA?

>>156995266
See >>156995042

>>156995266
The Alliance citizens are powerless between elections, but powerful during elections.
The Empire citizens are powerless always.

In the previous election, the Alliance citizens made a mistake and voted the wrong people into power. If the Fork plan hadn't been implemented, then Jessica's party would have been voted in during the next election, and peace might have been achieved.

>>156995042
A representative voting in its own interests, when those interests explicitly run contrary to the interests of the public, is corruption. The fact that the public was powerless to stop this corruption proves that the public was powerless against its government's corruption.

Besides: There's no guarantee that anything would have changed. The politicians of the opposition were probably just as corrupt.

>>156995292
Mb, I thought you were talking about that episode where the narrator explains the world's history.

>>156995440
See >>156995423.

>>156995267
>>156994650

nope, it's boku no pico

>>156995093
Or perhaps you shouldn't misuse tenses. Doing so would prevent you from saying wrong things in the future.

Let me remind you that the post I originally responded to was accompanied with an image of Reinhard, responding to a post talking about Reinhard's dynasty. You're being dishonest.

The difference between the alliance and the Empire was
>well, maybe next election we will choose a nice guy
>well, maybe the next emperor will be a nice guy

The constitutional monarchy maybe will be the best option for the galaxy. Or a machine revolution.

>>156995462
I think it's telling that in the FPA, those documentaries are freely available to everyone, but in the Empire, only Reinhard got to read the secret history of the Empire.

>>156995482
Kancolle is by far a truly nationalistic anime.

>>156995508
If not for the coup, the next election would have chosen a good guy (Jessica's party).

>>156995550

i prefer GuP

>>156995508
Problem with the FPA (besides rampant corruption) was that a democracy on a fucking multi-planetary scale will never be right for every planet if the top level of government has too much power, and that seemed to be their problem at the time we saw them in the show.

>>156995423
Powerless citizens does not equate to corruption when the citizens themselves demanded a powerful government. The Empire, under Reinhard, functioned exactly as it was intended to. The FPA ran directly contrary to its own founding interests and collapsed underneath its own mistakes. One was not corrupt, while the other was.

>>156995556
In the end, the lesson was most of time the power will be in hands of a sociopath.


>>156995599
GuP is pure globalism.

>>156995556
And then the election after that chooses a bad guy. Whoopdie doo.

>>156995634

that's globalism with cute (white and asian) girls

i can dig that kind of globalism

>>156994293
>Holding people or entities accountable for things they literally didn't do
Yup, takes one this stupid to be a FPA supporter.

>>156994008
Lovely fake subs at the last panel.

File: Screenshot_4.png (390KB, 1312x895px) Image search: [Google]

390KB, 1312x895px

>>156994293

go back to Heinessen cuck

>>156995681
Uh, source?

The corrupt politicians explicitly say that they're going to be voted out of power in the next election.

>new anime is going to be actual fujoshibait
Fucking kill me.
>inb4 hurr durr implying it isn't fujoshit
Fucking kill yourself.

File: Badmiral Shittenfeld.png (87KB, 640x600px) Image search: [Google]

87KB, 640x600px

>>156995759
>posting the wrong one
If only Kircheis were here...

>>156995600
Say hello for the France/Germany model of democracy. The decentralized American model was better by far.

>>156995682
Cute girls is better to sell than Japanese boys.

>>156995804

shit didn't know i screencapped an old copypasta

>>156995511
Even democratic countries won't give out their secret history that easily, they'll just try to hide it instead.

>>156995681
Or maybe the good guy gets re-elected. Or maybe another good guy gets elected. Or maybe a good guy gets elected after bad guys get elected. At least the situation doesn't take a literal lifetime to resolve itself like in an empire.

>>156995612
I agree that during Reinhard's 2 years in power, the Empire was less corrupt than the FPA. But the fact remains that during the Empire's other 490 years in existence, the Empire was more corrupt.

If you want to speak ONLY about Reinhard's reign, then refer to it as the "Goldenlöwe Dynasty". If we're using the term "Galactic Empire" then that means both dynasties, the entire history.

File: hope.jpg (39KB, 400x579px) Image search: [Google]

39KB, 400x579px

What do you think of this guy?

>>156995761
>S-source
Your claim was your own opinion. Why should I have to present a source when you were talking about your own fantasies in the first place? The people "would" have chosen Jessica's party? Cool. Except that doesn't happen. Saying that Jessica's party might have won is just as meaningful as saying that it might have lost later.

For democracy to work, a majority of the people must be smart enough to know what's good for the country. For dictatorship to work, you only need a few competent men.

Not trying to defend autocracy, but it has its benefits.

>>156996074
>Your claim was your own opinion.
After Yang captures Iserlohn, before the Alliance invades Imperial territory, the Alliance high council holds a meeting.

In that meeting, the high council decides to invade Imperial territory, because without another military victory, they're going to be voted out of office, and the peace-seeking opposition party would be voted in.

This is what the Alliance high council says. This is what the show says.

>>156995920
How about we stop thinking in terms of black and white? What if we have two parties that are both pretty bad, with an apathetic or even misinformed public? Such a government would be far worse than even a bad emperor.

>>156996238
What was wrong with Jessica's party?

>>156995922
Don't be disingenuous. This conversation started with Reinhard's reign as its subject.

>>156996290
Reinhard's reign is over. He's dead. You have to move on.

>>156996195
And then it doesn't happen. Funny, huh? It's almost as though those people were wrong.

>>156996152
This.

"The right to deny the rights of the people belongs to the people" my ass.

Most people are idiots.

>>156992904
>The Empire is a system where the government is corrupt and the citizens have a low standard of living.
You must have low standards to assume that ours are high, or worse yet; enough.

>>156996279
The fact that they didn't fucking win.

>>156991140
Yang's only flaw was his support for democracy. Other than that, he was best boy

>>156996335
Physician, heal thyself. Don't start an argument about Reinhard's reign if you don't want to talk about Reinhard's reign.

>>156996377
And Reinhard is dead. By him son will be a good Emperor but and is son of his son.

>>156996338
They were right. They needed a military campaign to change the election. They had a military campaign, and it did change the election.

By voting against the campaign and by defying the coup, Trunicht came out stronger, and his party stole the next election instead.

Cause and effect.

>>156996152
>Not trying to defend autocracy
Except that's exactly what you're doing.

>>156996408
>Don't start an argument about Reinhard's reign if you don't want to talk about Reinhard's reign.
This entire time I've been referring to the Galactic Empire, not the Goldenlöwe Dynasty. If you can't tell the difference, you have nobody to blame but yourself.

File: 1460949007629.jpg (30KB, 297x547px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 297x547px

>>156996423
>By him son will be a good Emperor but and is son of his son.

>>156996428
If they said that they would win the election, then they were dead wrong. After all, they never did. If you want to cry about how it wasn't what Heinessen intended, do it somewhere else. It happened.

>>156996492
Perhaps you joined the argument in the middle of it and I didn't notice. The first two posts are >>156991779 and >>156992904. One talks about Reinhard's dynasty, the other says "The Empire is" while posting an image of Reinhard. What sort of person would assume that the discussion isn't about Reinhard's dynasty?

>>156995029
It's supposed to air this year. It'll probably be shit, but I'm excited for it nonetheless

>corruption in the Alliance:
The upper class can use their money/power/influence to avoid the draft.
>corruption in the Empire:
The upper class can use their money/power/influence to gain control of entire fleets.

>corruption in the Alliance:
If you're rich, you can pay someone to be your servant.
>corruption in the Empire:
If you're rich, you can purchase a person and use them as you please.

>corruption in the Alliance:
A group of Terraist infiltrators will attack dissenters.
>corruption in the Empire:
The official government police will kidnap and execute dissenters.

Really makes me think.

>>156996573
Well here's the thing, I already told you that I agreed with you about how non-corrupt Reinhard is.

So are you going to agree with me that, on average (over its entire history), the Empire is worse than the Alliance, or are you going to keep insisting that nobody is allowed to say "Empire" and mean the Empire?

>>156996440
Read the rest of the sentence.

>>156996531
Who's the "they" here?

The centrist party was in power. According to the centrist party, the leftist party was going to win the next election. In order to stay in power, the centrist party started a military campaign. However, the centrist party lost the military campaign and lost a coup, so the rightist party won.

But if not for the campaign and coup, it was still the show's opinion that the leftist party would have won.

>I will never be an autocrat emperor who consolidates power and abandons the constitutional monarchy model my ancestor Reinhard put forth

feels bad man

>>156996927
>The centrist party was in power. According to the centrist party, the leftist party was going to win the next election. In order to stay in power, the centrist party started a military campaign. However, the centrist party lost the military campaign and lost a coup, so the rightist party won.
/leftypol/, pls, pacficism isn't be left-wing.

>>156997002
Well, it's a fictional universe, so feel free to operate under the assumption that they are the same during the duration of discussion for this fictional universe.

Aristocracy is the only true system.

>>156995101
There is little wrong with the systems inherently, it's often the people that drive them to shit.

Even if you create a perfect system, people will still try to change it and fuck it up that way.
Vigilance and maintenance are required to keep up a functioning society under every system.

>>156997098
Guy, the military aren't a party.

What if there was no official government, just a constitution?

It lays everything out, you follow the rules, pay your taxes everything is good for you.

There can be like a royal family for good will diplomacy hand shake events.

>>156997195
Fine. There's the Status Quo party, the Peace party, and the Terraist party.

If not for the failed campaign and coup, it was the show's opinion (expressed by the Status Quo party) that the Peace party would have won the next election.

File: logh.png (2MB, 594x2380px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 594x2380px

>>156991140
Yang is indeed wrong and a huge racist.

>>156994522
>the right the people had unlike the Empire was the ability to vote and overthrow it at any point and time.
A complete lie. One of the main points of the FPA was the fact elections literally meant nothing because any credible threats to the stupidity and the greed of the ruling party were stamped out and smothered with soft and hard force via media manipulation and coincidental "rioting." The reason why Yang preferred democracy wasn't the fact that people could "vote out" corruption but the fact that the corruption was the peoples because the corrupt ruling class came from the same stock as the general public instead of some noble born clan. Yang thought it was better that when a nation became ossified and corrupt, which he saw as an inevitability, it be more virtuous that the corruption be the collective responsibility of the people rather than corruption of a select few.

>>156997327
>Terraist party
I don't remember it.

>If not for the failed campaign
Here we have two options: a republican victory or a long blood war.
In first case, the status quo win the next election. In second case, the Peace party maybe they could win the next election.

>and coup, it was the show's opinion (expressed by the Status Quo party) that the Peace party would have won the next election
Probably, but still ha heavy centralized democracy.

>>156997700
He just the Trump of the Republic.

>>156996829
Don't change the subject without first conceding.

>>156995029
>Winter
done
>Spring
every show has been aired
>Summer
No word yet, but unlikely at this point.

So it's either going to be Fall or Next years winter because of the way Japs determine their airing years. My money is on next year.

>>156996862
What's the point of saying "I'm not trying to defend them, but I'm defending them"?

>>156996927
I meant to refer to Jessica's party, but I can also use it to refer to "anybody who thought that Jessica's party would amount to anything." Don't call it the "leftist party" either, since their domestic policies are never elaborated upon.

Anybody who thought that Jessica's party was going to win an election was dead wrong, specifically because the FPA sucks.

>>156997901
Conceding what?

I agree that the Goldenlöwe Dynasty was better than the FPA.

Do you agree that the Goldenbaum Dynasty was worse than the FPA?

Do you agree that, on average (over its entire history), the Galactic Empire is more like the Goldenbaum Dynasty than like the Goldenlöwe Dynasty?

>>156998107
>Anybody who thought that Jessica's party was going to win an election was dead wrong, specifically because the FPA sucks.
So the show is wrong about the show?

>>156995042
>The high council voted to invade Imperial territory, because without a military victory the citizens would vote them out of office in the next election, and a peace-seeking administration would be voted in instead.
>Votes matter.

You literally just described why they didn't. The whole point of that scene and arc was to show how all the facts pointed to the initial invasion leading to failure, how the occupation would lead to failure, and how the ideological war to "bring democracy to the people" would end in failure, how everyone with 2 brain cells in the military knew it, how the democratic government knew it, but realized they needed a cheap method to manipulate public opinion against their own interests to ensure they maintained their cushy corrupt lifestyles. And it fucking worked.

>>156998124
Concede the point. You know, the point of this discussion? I've already cited the posts which outline it.

>>156998222
Just because some characters say that something will happen doesn't mean that it's going to happen. Do I really need to explain that to you? You're wrong. They were never going to win because they were never going to be given the chance. That's a fact.

>>156998316
That scene illustrates a flaw of representational democracy, not democracy as a whole.

Between elections, you're powerless to stop the people who were voted to represent you. But during elections, you have power and you can stop them.

That little bit of power is better than having no power at all.

>>156998501
>"Unless we do X, Y will happen."
>they do X
>Y doesn't happen
You shouldn't take this as evidence that Y was never going to happen. They have more evidence to support their argument than you do for yours.

>>156998507
No, it really isn't. Having no power in a system that's going to bring about its own destruction is worse than having no power in a system that works.

>>156998594
Yet their conclusion was wrong. Merely because a false conclusion had more evidence at one point does not mean that the conclusion was actually true. They were objectively wrong.

>>156998644
The destruction of the FPA came externally.

The Terraist infiltrators, the coup sponsored by Reinhard, and the military led by Reinhard collapsed the FPA from the outside.

>>156995029
Can one of you autists translate this, if real?

>>156998501
>They were never going to win because they were never going to be given the chance

Do you have a single fact to back that up?

>>156998697
>Yet their conclusion was wrong.
How was it wrong? They were trying to avert the Peace party's victory, and they successfully averted the Peace party's victory. They were right.

Averting their own victory as well is just an example of the author's affection for dramatic irony.

>All this monarchy dick sucking faggot

>>156998716
One of the foremost purposes of governments is to defend against external threats. Any government which cannot do so has no right to exist. The FPA's failure could have been averted, too. Yet its own corruption prevented it from doing so.

You fucks would all live on phezzan if given the chance, don't lie.

>>156998779
Yes. The fact that they were never given the chance proves that they were never going to be given the chance. Jessica's party, that is.

>>156998787
Any conclusion that Jessica's party would win is objectively false. Such a statement is objectively false because Jessica's party did not win. Simple logic.

>>156998899
>not being the king
There is a reason your kind had to decapitate the king to become equals.

>>156998992
Quit begging the question and answer it.

>>156998992
>>156999084
Do you not understand cause and effect?

Jessica's party was going to win before the campaign and coup.

We're talking about what would have happened if the campaign and coup hadn't happened.

All your blather about what happened after the campaign/coup is irrelevant, because we're discussing a hypothetical scenario without them.

>>156998507
>But during elections, you have power and you can stop them.
Again you are missing the point of the arc. It showed that the people had the illusion of power. The government willingly chose to pursue actions against the people's interest knowing full well it would change public opinion for their favor even though it would destroy the nation. The people were just sheep easily led to their destruction.

>>156998950
You might as well say that the Galactic Empire had no right to exist, since the Goldenbaum Dynasty fell in a civil war.

Just as the Empire continues to exist after changing governments, the FPA continues to exist after doing the same. Remember, the series ends with the Ba'alat Starzone free.

>>156995029
Please be real.

>>156999104
Why would anyone want to be a king/emperor?
Count is the prefect blend of comfy and power, as long as you aren't one of the ones that have to live on a border to be the vanguard of invading kingdoms.

>>156999162
It wasn't an illusion of power, since that government was voted into office by the citizens (who exercised their power to vote poorly). That government couldn't have taken power without the people.

That particular administration made the wrong choices, but for 300 years before that the democratically-elected administrations (and the citizens who elected them) were doing just fine.

>>156999306
Even a barony was pretty comfy.

Just look at Baron Flegel and tell me that he couldn't have lived a long, happy life if he hadn't chosen to be such a fuckwit.

>>156999118
>>156999137
It isn't begging the question. It's factual and correct observation. If you see an apple fall, it isn't begging the question to say "I know that the apple was going to fall because the apple fell." Jessica's party was never going to win because Jessica's party was never going to be given the chance. This is a fact.

>>156999230
The Goldenbaum Dynasty is not the same as the Reinhard Dynasty. The Goldenbaum Dynasty had no right to exist. The FPA had no right to exist as well. Get back to the main point.

>>156999615
The Galactic Empire wouldn't exist if the Goldenbaum Dynasty hadn't existed.

So nothing in the universe has the right to exist, according to you.

>>156999564
So there's no such thing as free will and everything is predetermined?

>>156999360
>That government couldn't have taken power without the people.
Perhaps at the foundation of the FPA, but not after that. The years twisted the country's power structure and what was once the public's power was lost in a mess of bureaucracy. It wound up at the government's feet. It's no stretch of the imagination at all to imagine that there was quite a lot of collusion and bribery in the FPA.

>>156999665
You wouldn't exist if your father didn't exist. If your father were a rapist murderer, should you be tried as a rapist murderer?

The Goldenbaum Dynasty had no right to exist, and so it was replaced with something different. Because that thing was different, it had more of a right to exist.

>>156999720
Why was the administration so afraid of the next election if the people are powerless?

>>156999706
The past does not have free will. I think that is obvious.

If you have any unique opinions about Calvinism, though, I'd like to hear them.

>>156998744
There's not really anything worth translating there, the small text at the bottom is just a description of the image. The guy who posted it said something about having to wait until September for more info, though, so the text that's cut off on the side might mention something like that. It's just a one page teaser visual by the way, not a whole article or anything. Seems like nothing really important is revealed here besides confirming that the project isn't dead and giving us a look at the new character design.

>>156999249
I've seen a couple other people mentioning it (though not posting pics) on twitter so I think it probably is real. It's in the issue of Animage that came out today, apparently.

>>156994427
>FPA
>ongoing
Both Goldenbaum Dynasty and FPA were gone by the series' end.

>>156999781
>had no right
>had more of a right
Having a right to exist, is it binary or on a spectrum?

>>156999823
If you change the past, does the future change?

>>156999789
You're making the assumption that the administration constitutes the true political establishment of the FPA and that there could be nothing greater behind the scenes. Those individual people were upset because they were going to lose their jobs. That doesn't mean that the public was suddenly going to have power after that. Considering that the FPA was portrayed as the epitome of democratic corruption, it's easy to imagine that the administration's opposition was just another hand of the same entity.

>>156999850
True, but the FPA was "ongoing" compared to the Goldenbaum Dynasty. I mainly wanted to stress that the FPA's actions were present and continuous during and after the end of the Goldenbaum Dynasty.

>>156999960
>You're making the assumption that the administration constitutes the true political establishment of the FPA and that there could be nothing greater behind the scenes.
Since we never see or hear of anything greater behind the scenes, it's the most reasonable assumption to make.

>>156999867
Even if there can only be either 0 or 1, 1 can be called "more than 0."

>>156999911
You can't change the past.

>>157000027
The Goldenbaum Dynasty ends at the end of season 2.
The FPA ends at the end of season 2.
The FPA continues to exist in name only, and all actions taken by the "FPA" in seasons 3 and 4 are made by puppets with their strings pulled by the Empire.

>>157000068
"I can't see it so it's not there" is not a reasonable assumption to make. Most people stop making that assumption in the first few years of their lives.

>>157000115
In a hypothetical scenario where the past was changed, could the future change as well?

>>157000159
You should assume that the omniscient narrator would have revealed the existence of such an organization if it existed.

You are not participating in good faith if you argue otherwise.

>>157000027
I wasn't the guy you were arguing with but it seems at that point it becomes a matter of semantics. Both the FPA and Goldenbaum Dynasty are things of the past, even if the FPA is more recently. Soon it just becomes a matter of what time period is being argued. Both were pretty great places at their conception. The FPA took longer to corrupt, but its corruption ran deeper. After the Goldenbaum Dynasty ended the FPA was likely worse simply due to there not being a Goldenbaum Dynasty to commit atrocities.

Though there are arguments that either place could be better to live in despite corruption and that's another argument entirely.

>>157000078
At what point does it switch from 1 to 0? How much corruption is acceptable in a system for it to remain a 1?

>173 posts
>39 posters
>173 / 39 ~ 6
Your average anon made six posts in this thread, god save LoGH

>>157000140
You're right. The point still stands, however. Comparing actions of the Goldenbaum Dynasty which must have occurred decades prior to the start of the series is completely unfair.

>>157000474
There is no indication that the Empire changed its behavior before Reinhard took over.

Heydrich Lang was still head of the secret police until the end of the Goldenbaum Dynasty. When Oberstein brought Lang back for the Goldenlöwe Dynasty, Oberstein had to give Lang new rules, implying that Lang had still been using the old rules before.

>>157000235
What if the organization wasn't centralized? What if it was just a number of dynamic, unspoken agreements and alliances between politicians?

Besides, I don't think that the narrator is omniscient. I've always thought that it's presented as though a historian is speaking.

>>157000470
The threads for the classics are always comfy.

>>157000569
Yet our conversation was dealing specifically with Reinhard's reign. Calling attention to what happened before then is disingenuous.

>>157000570
You should assume that the narrator would have told us if such a decentralized system existed.

You should assume that the narrator is omniscient, considering that we the viewer are also given the benefit of telepathy and told the inner thoughts of characters who dare not voice them.

>>157000628
You are the only person trying to play by these rules. Everyone else is discussing the Galactic Empire according to its entire history. If anyone is being disingenuous here, it's you.

>>157000650
The narrator never comments on their thoughts. Even then, it's not far-fetched to imagine that a depiction of the past would make use of internal monologues.

Besides that: It's completely unreasonable to imagine that the narrator has to tell us about everything. The politicians themselves are barely given any detail, so their dealings would never have any impact on the plot. Even Trunicht's dealings aren't elaborated upon, and he's meant to be the embodiment of corruption.

>>157000751
Simple peer pressure has no effect on me. This conversation started out with Reinhard's reign as its subject. I have already proven that.

>>157001025
If you want to argue as devil's advocate that such a system COULD have existed, then fine.

But be honest, it doesn't exist because the author never intended it to exist and never gave any indication that it exists.

>>157001055
You're so focused on "winning" that you're impossible to have a genuine conversation with.

I hereby announce that I have "lost". Feel free to record this as another "win" in your book.

>>157001116
The author intended the FPA to be the epitome of democratic corruption. Why on earth would such a thing not be in line with that intention?

>>157001274
>I-I-I don't even WANT to be right!
Go ahead and just "I literally can't even" right out of this thread then, champ.

>>157001317
Please mark your posts as devil's advocate if you're only arguing as devil's advocate. Otherwise it leads to a poor impression of your intelligence.

>>157001401
Sick personal attack, bro. I'm still waiting for your counterargument.

>>157001450
Just playing devil's advocate here, but what if the real truth of LoGH is that both sides were mind-controlled by aliens? The author intended to show the flaws of both democracy and autocracy, and one of those flaws is that both are susceptible to mind control. There's no evidence for it at all, but there's no evidence for your theory either, so both are equally valid.

>>157000470
I was personally responsible for 50 of the last thread's posts.

>>157001581
You're destroying your own credibility with sophistry like that. There was nothing wrong with what I said. You're resorting to a strawman argument because you're experiencing cognitive dissonance.

>>157001688
>There was nothing wrong with what I said.
Except that it doesn't fit the author's style to have such a system but not reveal it to the readers/audience.

>>157001746
Considering Job Trunicht, you're objectively wrong.

>>157001837
The audience knows that Job Trunicht exists.

>>157001856
The audience doesn't know how he keeps rising to power.

>>157001923
But we know that he exists. You're arguing for a shadow supergovernment so secret that the characters don't know it exists, the narrator doesn't know it exists, the viewers don't know it exists, the readers don't know it exists, and even the author doesn't know it exists.

>>157002032
>You're arguing for a shadow supergovernment
I don't know how you get that from "a number of dynamic, unspoken agreements and alliances between politicians." Either way, I can tell that you've stopped thinking. Spare yourself the trouble of ramming your head into a wall and hoping that it'll fall. Just leave.

File: main.jpg (203KB, 1000x1415px) Image search: [Google]

203KB, 1000x1415px

>>156995029
They updated the website.
http://gineiden-anime.com/

There'll be an event on September 20 where the staff and cast will be announced.

>>157002137
what is premise of this? sequel, prequel or remake?

>>157002234
None of the above. It's a new adaptation of the novels.

>>157002083
>I don't know how you get that from "a number of dynamic, unspoken agreements and alliances between politicians."
You've been arguing that the FPA citizens are powerless. You were asked "Why was the administration so afraid of the next election if the people are powerless?", and your response is that the FPA citizens and FPA government are powerless because all the actual power lies in your theoretical system. And yet no evidence for your system is ever given.

If the author's goal is to educate the audience on the pros and cons of democracy, then having such a con but not informing the audience defeats the purpose of that con's existence.

>>157002260
Honestly that sounds shaky. I've read the novels that are out in english and I found them inferior to the show by far. They lack a lot of details that the show added.
A rare case of the books being worse than the show.

File: 1484130169933.jpg (103KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

103KB, 640x480px

Here's to my favorite MC of all time returning.

>>157002667
I've read more than that and the OVAs really don't take as many liberties with the source material as you might think. There are a lot of details from stuff like the gaidens that they adapted into the main series with the anime.

I'm actually pretty glad it's a readaptation rather than a remake because it means there's a better chance that some of the things the OVAs left out will make it in. I can think of a couple scenes they ignored or details that got changed off the top of my head that I'd like to see animated or corrected.

>>157003506
the first book is so sparse on details they don't even tell you what iserlohn looks like.

tons of scenes missing and tons of charters MIA

it is inferior in every way possible, the strength of a novel like this should be the details, lacking that there is no point. .

>>157001923
The FPA doesn't have any competent politician, it's not just Truniht it's the entire system.

The people can chose, but the options aren't satisfying. Look at how the 2016 election turned out.

>>157003765
>The FPA doesn't have any competent politician, it's not just Truniht it's the entire system.
Lebello and Lewi.

>>157002137
mfw the project is still alive, about time any new info came out.

File: cap_Legend of Galactic Heroes Gaiden(Silver-White Valley 03) - Central Anime [B157798C]_00_12_25_01.jpg (75KB, 960x720px) Image search: [Google]

75KB, 960x720px

Why does Kircheis look like absolute shit in the main series, but have a full range of facial expressions in Gaiden?

>>157003860
How are they competent ?

new kew visual for the readaptation bois
itshappening.gif
http://gineiden-anime.com/

>>157004130
I hope they dont use that stupid Fujisaki's desings for god sake!

>>157004106
In the first 2 seasons, they work for the people, not for themselves. They vote against the stupid invasion plan and they help out Yang whenever the corrupt politicians give him trouble.

In season 3, Lewi leaves the government and Lebello hands Yang over to Lennenkanpt in order to protect the civilians, but they were pretty good until that point.

>>157002315
>no evidence of FPA corruption is ever given
Wew lad. You're a bona fide meme.

>>157002137
>that sterile digital art

Man, it just won't have the same sort of charm as the old one did. It won't help that the ships are likely to be CG too.

>>157004067
Because he's nothing more than Reinhard's emotionless lackey in the main series.

>>157003765
Jessica gets straight up assassinated when she starts to pose a threat to the system

>>157004306
That's not what that post says.

>>157004330
>ships are likely to be CG too
Don't do this to me. Th-They'll look good... There won't be any trace of 3DPD in my glorious LotGH adaptation...

>>157004368
Are you thinking of someone else? She died in a riot during the coup.

>>157004375
It really is. You can't concede that the FPA government is corrupt without also realizing that there must be pervasive back-room deals. The only possible argument is that the FPA isn't corrupt.

>>157004395
It's the current year mate, no one does mechanical 2D animation these days.

>>157004453
>the citizens and elected governments are both powerless because there's a hidden behind-the-scenes system secretly controlling all the power
Why would the author make this part of the universe but not inform the audience?

File: cap_Legend of Galactic Heroes Gaiden Spiral Labyrinth 01 - Central Anime [E00E757A]_00_00_42_01.jpg (117KB, 960x720px) Image search: [Google]

117KB, 960x720px

>>157004395
Oh hail! Liberty bell!
True freedom for all men.

>>157004232
I fail to see any proof of competence here. Protesting against a stupid decision is something any citizen could do, a good leader would find a better plan.

Giving away your best asset isnt that smart either.

File: 1452896551147.jpg (75KB, 440x660px) Image search: [Google]

75KB, 440x660px

>>157002137
>super skinny body
It's over man, CLAMP gunna design it.

>>157004642
You didn't provide any evidence that they aren't competent.

>>157004548
Did you miss the thousands of times in which someone remarks that the FPA is corrupt? What, you think that's just a moralistic argument? Get real already. You're a joke at this point. Just repeating "muh shadow government" over and over again as though it means something. This isn't a matter of the author not intending something. This is a matter of you being flat-out unwilling to consider something that the author wants to imply. Perhaps out of severe autism, you can't imagine that any corrupt activity could ever take place without it being directly shown to you. The fact that Trunicht is constantly shown rising up the ranks, in spite of being an irredeemable douche bag that nobody likes, doesn't seem to sway you either. If you're unwilling to think, then don't try to argue.

Who would they get to voice Yang? I didn't feel the new guy they got for Gaiden.

>>157004837
I agree that there's corruption. You're not arguing that corruption exists. You're arguing that the citizens have no power AND the elected governments have no power, and you're arguing that the reason for this is that all the power lies hidden in a secret shadow system. This is what you have been saying. And yet the author never once implies that this is the case.

Trunicht has power because he is voted into power. He is voted into power because the citizens have the power to elect politicians into the government. This is the canon of the books, this is the canon of the show, this is canon.

You are arguing that LoGH isn't canon.

>>157004955
I'm arguing that pervasive corruption has eliminated the possibility of change. The citizens of the FPA get to pick between the two hands of one entity. That entity can best be summarized as the collective greed and inefficiency of the system as a whole. Prospective politicians, seeking to make changes, will face a wall of platitudes and encounter aggression from multitudes of colluding politicians. Once one side's opposition makes it into office, it only seeks to reinforce its position. In that way, it's exactly the same as the party it replaced. The citizens are powerless in their government not because they are actively being conspired against, but rather because the establishment is too entrenched to care about the public. It's not a system in which you have a weighted chance to get a bad result, but rather a system in which both results are bad.

>Trunicht is a kind and honorable politician who was fairly elected into power
Right. I'm sure that's exactly what happened when he started rising up the ranks of the Empire, too.

>>157005207
>I'm arguing that pervasive corruption has eliminated the possibility of change.
Why was the administration so afraid of the next election?

The people were going to vote a peace-seeking party into power. Is that not a change?

>Trunicht is a kind and honorable politician who was fairly elected into power
He is an unkind and dishonorable politician, but he gained power in the FPA because the FPA citizens chose to vote for him. He then gained power in the Empire because Reinhard chose to give him powerful positions. He doesn't ascend by magic.

File: Hans Eduard Bergengrun.jpg (27KB, 514x387px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 514x387px

You know, of all the things that happen in this series there were a lot of moments that were upsetting. But this scene right here hit me harder than expected.

Yes, the soldiers of the empire have been known to commit suicide when they've lost, rather than face the shame of being a defeated commander to their superiors. But Bergengrun didn't deserve this. He was a good admiral. He was loyal to his commanders and they were both killed under dishonorable circumstances. He died from despair and a loss of faith in the empire when things were supposed to be good.

To make matters worse, he kills himself in the presence of his associates and even a friend. The desperation Bulow showed trying to talk Bergengrun out of suicide and the quiet agonizing whimper he lets out after his friends kills himself, that chokes me up more than I'd like to admit with this series.

>>157005426
Yet more evidence that Reuental did everything wrong. For fuck's sake, Oskar, just swallow your pride and surrender.

>>157005559
He eventually did, but in the poorest of circumstances.

>>157005592
For fuck's sake, Oskar, just swallow your pride and let the doctors treat your wound in a hospital.

File: clip+(2017-05-09+at+10.26.36).png (630KB, 923x681px) Image search: [Google]

630KB, 923x681px

best girl

>>157004705
The Alliance loses

So Julian and Louis fucked, right?

>>157005348
That panel was afraid of the next election because it was going to hurt them personally. It wasn't going to hurt the system. Stop trying to see a centralized conspiracy and realize that politicians usually have jobs and obligations that almost none of the FPA's politicians actually abide by. If you have two people who you can hire to dig a hole for you, and neither one ever works, hiring the one who calls you handsome won't get the hole dug. Hence that change is impossible in the FPA. The people are just choosing which group of incompetents to give an income. After the storm of promises prior to the election, nothing happens. Change has to go through a bureaucracy which is stacked with bribed hands. That's even assuming that the public's vote actually matters. Even Reinhard, on the other side of the galaxy, managed to induce a coup in the FPA.

>Trunicht is an unkind and dishonorable politician
>But all of his successes came fairly
Trunicht needs his foot in the door and nothing else to start climbing up the ladder. He's the sort of politician that nobody's ever heard of until he's already in office. The man is the living embodiment of corruption, which is obviously the authors intent. The fact that you can't even identify this man as a source of back-room deals proves that you're outrageously naive.

>>157005805
Not their fault.

>>157005847
What system? You keep saying that the citizens hold no power, you keep saying that the elected government holds no power, but if Jessica's party wins the next election, what prevents them from holding the stalemate at Iserlohn and demanding a truce? Why does the author never give any indication that Jessica's party would be prevented by a secret system from taking this course of action?

Why are you the only person who can see this secret system that the author never suggested?

And remember, no matter how many backroom deals Trunicht makes, he still can't be elected to government unless the people vote for him. The author never indicates that the votes are falsified.

>>157006175
I like it.

>>157006175
>>>/facebook/
Fuck off with this shitty meme, retard.

>>157002137
>still no staff for another four months
God damn it, just tell me if who the director is already; that basically decides whether I can ignore this or not.

>>157006175
wtf, it's literally reversed
yellow subs are best

>>156992954
Holy fuck. I just realized that Heinnessen's death before reaching the to be named planet Heinnessen forshadowed Yang's death before reaching his goal of securing democracy.

>>156998452

Not that guy, but assume he did concede and accepts his mistake in bringing in his own argument in a discussion that was not appropriate to it.

Would you then tackle his argument?

>>157006125
Well, for one thing, there's that military coup to deal with. Even without Reinhard's influence, the fact of the matter is that a gigantic war engine (worth about as much as the FPA itself) is hard to subdue. How long did it take Obama to even start withdrawing troops from Afghanistan? Members of the High Council are replaced every 4 years. Ceasing an operation which is currently crippling your economy, currently putting food on the table for millions of military men, and currently giving your opponents their only platform, is impossible to peaceably achieve in that time. Such a thing would be completely and utterly unprecedented. The decision of whether or not to continue the war is likely not the High Council's to make in the first place. If it's anything like the US or the UK, the elected party would have to face its opposition. You would likely need a majority of politicians, which would be impossible to achieve in the FPA given that all of its politicians are disillusioned career politicians without any sense of obligation to their constituents. All of this is even assuming that the intense corruption of the FPA would allow any sort of work to be done to begin with.

As I said earlier, Trunicht needs a foot in the door and nothing else. He obviously gains votes by lying, colluding, and excluding. The implication with Trunicht is obviously that he's capable of rising through the ranks of any system at all, whether legitimate or illegitimate.

>>157006692
Not anymore. It's been too long.

>>156992904
Actually the reverse in the anime, at least after Reinhard assumes control via the puppet kid emperor.

>>157006812

Well, then I don't think you're being intellectually honest with yourself. At least consider it even if you're not going to debate it in the here and now, alright?

Or don't. Seems a lot of this thread is taken up with this voting bunk anway.

>>157006742
But why does the author never indicate what you're saying? The author never gives any indication that Jessica's party would be unable to enact its plans if it was elected. So again, it all falls to you assuming that the author is wrong about their own work.

>He obviously gains votes by lying, colluding, and excluding.
But he still needs the votes. Without the votes, without the citizens, he's powerless.

>>157007024
Intellectual honesty isn't binding when it's 1 AM and you've been arguing on 4chan for 6 hours.

>>157007057
What I'm saying is common sense. What sort of fool would imagine that politicians, especially FPA politicians, can just enact their whims like magic? Don't deride the source material just so that it fits into your naive and nonsensical worldview.

The trouble with Trunicht is that once you let him into your system you can't ever get him out without shooting him. The man even got himself a position in a hard-coded aristocracy and you think that a simple vote will ever stop him? All the citizens of the FPA are to him is an audience that he occasionally has to put on a show for.

File: 1482027309348.jpg (617KB, 960x840px) Image search: [Google]

617KB, 960x840px

>>157005681

>>157007165
>What I'm saying is common sense.
Not good enough. It still comes from your own imagination, never even *suggested* by the work itself. The author loves showing us how vastly rich and complexly detailed the LoGH universe is, so why would the author leave this aspect out?

>The trouble with Trunicht is that once you let him into your system you can't ever get him out without shooting him.
Or you could convince people to not vote for him, which would leave him powerless in their democracy.

>The man even got himself a position in a hard-coded aristocracy
That's the flaw of the autocracy, that a person like him can be appointed positions without votes.

Your statement is completely irrelevant, as spotting a flaw in autocracy has no bearing on an argument about democracy.

>>157007489
Best girl, but worst hair.

>>157007322
>Common sense comes from your imagination, so it's not applicable.
I guess all of the characters eat moon rocks and have 10 nipples.

>Why would the author leave this aspect out?
Why would the author leave out how Trunicht gains power in the Empire? It's almost as though such specific details would distract from the plot.

>You could convince people not to vote for him
Hard to do when he has a finger in every pie.

>That's the flaw of the autocracy
It's literally one of the most important strengths of autocracies. They get to reject career politicians at whim. Accepting career politicians is a weakness of democracy, not autocracy.

You're turning this argument into a derivative greentext argument. I'm done with you.

>>156992904
They go to pretty great lengths to show how everything went to shit in the FPA.
Protests where the military murders members of the public.
Attempted coups.
Mass conscription robbing all nonmilitary fields of skilled personnel.
Rampant gang and militia activity.
Extensive political corruption with the Earth Cult and some of the heads of government.

The Empire is also clearly shown to have some of the same problems, but not nearly to the same extent, and certainly not during Reinhard's rule or within his government.

>>156995029
Thank god they're not using the manga's designs.

>>157007652
>I guess all of the characters eat moon rocks and have 10 nipples.
Common sense is that, when the author tells us that the FPA is a democracy, then the FPA is a democracy. Common sense is that, when the author tells us that the citizens vote the government into power and the government decides how to run the nation, then the citizens vote the government into power and the government decides how to run the nation. Common sense is that we should believe the author, and not assume that they're lying.

After Yang captured Iserlohn, Jessica's party demanded peace and grew rapidly. If that party had been elected, all they would have to do is maintain the current positions of their ships. The Empire would be unable to attack the FPA without Iserlohn, so there would be peace. For a few years, at least.

That's what Yang was thinking, that's what Jessica's party was thinking, that's what their opponents in the High Council were thinking, that's what the author was thinking.

The author never indicated that this plan couldn't work, so common sense is that you shouldn't insist that the author was wrong.

>Why would the author leave out how Trunicht gains power in the Empire?
The author didn't leave that out. Trunicht gained power in the Empire because he requested positions of power, and Reinhard granted those requests.

The problem is you. You didn't pay attention.

>It's literally one of the most important strengths of autocracies. They get to reject career politicians at whim. Accepting career politicians is a weakness of democracy, not autocracy.
But for the vast majority the Galactic Empire's existence, only the corrupt assumed positions of power. Maybe you can become upset again that people are judging the Galactic Empire by 490 years of history instead of just the last 2.

>I'm done with you.
I'm sure you'll come back in an hour, hoping I'm gone and hoping you can get the last word, just like you did last time.

>>157006175
>FILE DELETED
Too bad, I liked it.

>>156997700

This is EXTREMELY problematic

>>156994490
Empire becomes a constitutional monarchy, mate. Like the UK.
It won't be as corrupt as it once was.

>>157008778
The Kaiserin says she'll consider it. No promises.

>>156995511
Likewise, I'm certain that the documentaries about the corruption in the FPA are freely available in the Empire.

>>156995029
>production IG
depending on the budget and time it will either be CGI shitfest or the most amazing thing in the world

>>157008778
The new series will be about the collapse of the Empire after the Phexit referendum of UC 916.

>>156996428
Politicians having the power to influence public opinion like that, to keep themselves in power, even against the interests of the public, is corruption.
It doesn't matter if a party that appealed to the people and looked out for their interests existed, if it would never win. And it would never win, because the corrupt guys already in power could prevent it from winning.

>>156996927
Yes, but the other parties having the power to keep the Peace Party from winning is what makes them corrupt.

>>157009062
>>157009106
What are you trying to argue? Those posts aren't saying that corruption didn't exist in the FPA.

>>157008923
They only make boring shit. Even their better works are dull.

>>157003765
Don't bring up actual politics, you drooling retard, unless you want to ruin a thread.

>>157002315
Let me cut in.
The citizens of the FPA are powerless because they will never be allowed to vote for the parties that are truly in their best interests. The corrupt parties will use money and trickery to get into power, and to stay in power. For example, using their power to influence public opinion into voting for them again.
Them saying "If we don't do X, they'll vote for some other guys!" isn't proof that the people had power, it's proof that the politicians that are currently in power are willing to do anything to stay in power, even things that are not in the public's best interest.
If a man doesn't do his job properly, he'll be fired. Should you assume that the natural course would be for him to be fired, even though he did his work and was not fired? There is nearly nothing that would've convinced him to not do his work, because he didn't want to be fired. So the default assumption is that he would do his work and stay employed.
There is no way the corrupt politicians of the FPA would've not done what was necessary to stay in power, so they are impossible to get out of power.
Power that is not exercised is not power at all.

>>156992904
Clearly constitutional monarchy is the way to go.
Get fucked burgers/chinks.

>>157009535
Let me cut in.
When the high council says "The citizens are going to vote us out in the next election", the scared politicians follow up with "Let's distract the citizens with a military victory".
A distraction is what they go for, not "Let's arrest the opposition" or "Let's falsify more votes for us".
They're corrupt, it's true, but less corrupt than the level of corruption which you claim.
The citizens have the power to determine who makes up the government, and the government can't/won't stop the citizens if the citizens are determined.

File: Wise words of a Republican.jpg (40KB, 663x497px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 663x497px

Christ the two autist in this thread arguing about which is more corrupt the FPA or the Galactic empire are a bunch of retards making some really stupid arguments

Lets go ahead and clear all this up:

The author and by extension the narrator's position is fairly clear. Both the empire and FPA were both terrible specifically the author's main belief seems to be that any system that denies promotion on the basis of merit and solely merit is not only incompetent but evil.

Its why Reinhardt's dictatorship is presented as so appealing: a strongman in the truest sense of the word, the most competent if you will, guiding a nation with an even and just hand with a army of brilliant general, admirals, administrators, schemers, and bureaucrats who all had their positions because of their ability and devotion to their nation.

The old empires failing was fairly simple, what was once an excellent and effective empire had fallen into an entrenched and incompetent nobility that not only failed to reward competency but even rooted it out and destroyed for fear of competition. This was ultimately its downfall

The FPA was more insidious it had the allusion of a meritocracy being as it was a democracy, but even still we are shown through the character Truniht the true failing of democratic government: How easily the public can be manipulated, paticularly a people who had ceased to care about participating in government and only wished to elect someone that would solve all of their problems. The people of FPA had long abandoned their original ideas of liberty, I think this is best signified by the first thing Reinhard does when he gets to Heinessen is to tear down the giant statue of their founder, not because he dislikes the man or he wants to make a show of force, but because he knows that Heinessen would have hated to have been an idol like that. The people had lost sight of everything their so called democracy had even stood for

>>157010316
My name is Paul von Oberstein, and even Reinhard was a stupid idiot who wasted millions of lives pointlessly on Muh Pride and Muh Honor. People shouldn't look to the Goldenlöwe dynasty as an infallible bastion of corruption-free decision-making.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx0txqVRLNQ

File: Oberstein did nothing wrong.png (1MB, 960x720px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 960x720px

>>157010437
I never said Reinhard was the best I said the narrator was suggesting that his form of government was best

In fact I would even argue that Oberstein is likely the authors stand-in directly giving his personal opinions to the people even if they are unpopular and make him despised.

Everyone likes to joke that oberstein did nothing wrong, but its actually true, Oberstein is written as pretty much infalliable and right about literally everything that happens through the events of the story

>>157010695
>I said the narrator was suggesting that his form of government was best
The thing is that there is no best form of government in LoGH. Or, more accurately, there are different bests for different situations. Autocracy is best when you want to get shit done, but democracy is best when you want to maintain a status quo. Both have their uses, neither one is fully superior to the other.

>>156993285
>Oberstein was the only one who did what was necessary to save the greatest number of human lives.
The people of westerland are grateful. oh wait.

>>157011319
Soldiers have lives too.

If 2 million civilians die and 2 million soldiers die, then for Oberstein that's better than 2 million civilians living and 10 million soldiers dying.

>>157010758
If we are talking about real life than yeah I agree, but if we are talking about the context of the show and what the narrator personally believes then I disagree

I think the ultimate conclusion the narrator reaches at the end of the series is that autocracy is best, but only if the correct person is in charge, otherwise it is abused and is often a force of evil and destruction. At the end of the series when Reinhard dies the option is left open in which those left will attempt to find some kind of middle ground between democracy and autocracy, the author doesn't really know what that is, which is why I think he leaves it intentionally vague but I thin ultimately the idea settled upon is that a strong leader is needed but checks need to be put in place to ensure those who follow don't abuse their power and trample peoples rights

Its a fairly interesting perspective, you get the idea that the author has a great deal of respect for the ideas around fascism while also having a deep understanding and consideration for concepts such as liberty and self rule two seemingly contradicting ideologies

>>157011463
I'm unconvinced of the claim it shortened the war and saved more lives in the end. They could have gotten the same PR boost defending the planet from the nuclear bombardment with less people dead.

>>157011614
Without actually seeing the devastation, I think the rest of the empire might have disbelieved the story. It's too outrageous to feel real, and they would have thought it to be just manufactured propaganda from Reinhard's camp.

File: Yang I wonder if the masses have always wanted an autocrat..jpg (991KB, 1184x4440px) Image search: [Google]

991KB, 1184x4440px

>>157010316

RIBERTY IS FOR FLEEDOM

>>157000177
Let's say that no time-fuckery was involved and instead it was just a revisionist ploy that happened, then sure, Humanity would most likely go down a different path than the one it would have learned how to fear.