Has anime become too trope ridden and pandering?
>become
>too
>pandering
Yes, reddit-kun. That show that you don't like has a target audience that's not you.
Lucky Star, idiot.
Not really, this season just sucks.
>>156801035
What about that shit show?
>>156800858
Good thread.
>>156800858
>trope
Calling it trope ridden is a trope.
I unironically think anime has been in a downhill spiral of increasing cheese and trash since 2007.
Moetan was the last 11/10 series.
Yes, all of anime should be mature and intellectual for mature and intellectual people like myself, we don't need literal children infesting our anime.
>>156800858
>become
>>156800918
>>156803835
>triggered moefags
We had people like Tezuka, Mizayzki, Oshii, Anno, Yuasa and Kon building anime into a respectable medium and you try to ruin it with your anti-intellectualism, sad.
>>156800858
Tropes are just cliches that haven't jumped the shark yet. They're a writing smell. Any story that has tropes in it will age like milk.
Almost everything is a trope as per TVTropes, where people's idea of tropes comes from. TVTropes also states that tropes are neither good or bad. Really, there's no reason to even talk about them.
Pandering, as has been said many times now, does not exist. No matter how many times the matter is argued, that is always the conclusion.
>>156804577
>Pandering does not exist
I love when you manchildren resort to this bullshit
It clearly does, every creator needs a target group to survive
>>156804577
>TVTropes
>where people's idea of tropes comes from
>>156804642
This argument has been conducted many, many, many, many times. Every time the conclusion is inescapable: it does not exist. What makes you think this time will be different?
>>156804665
That's exactly where it comes from. Nobody was talking about tropes until TVTropes got popular.
>>156804737
>This argument has been conducted many, many, many, many times.
Bullshit, you just keep covering your ears.
If pandering didn't exist niche groups and fandoms would not exist
>>156804737
>Nobody was talking about tropes until TVTropes got popular.
Yes they were you stupid internet baby.
>>156804737
>Nobody was talking about tropes until TVTropes got popular.
Holy shit lmao
Nothing wrong with pandering to a target audience.
>>156804779
The existence of niches and fandoms does not necessitate the existence of pandering. That doesn't even make any sense. ZUN isn't pandering by making Touhou, he likes making Touhou and it's something that interests him.
>>156804808
>>156804821
TVTropes made tropes popular. I have no idea why you're trying to deny this.
>>156804527
A lesbian dork isn't exactly respectable.
>>156804834
It is if that audience is retarded
>>156804855
Except it does, there have always been two ways of creating something, trying to appeal to large demographic or certain small group.
>>156804855
>TVTropes made tropes popular
Oh God
>>156804855
Production committees make late-night anime to pander towards dumb smelly otaku for their otaku-bux by including all the elements that are thought to be popular with them.
>>156804926
>Except it does, there have always been two ways of creating something, trying to appeal to large demographic or certain small group.
What does this have to do with pandering?
>TVTropes made tropes popular
Yeah, it did.
>>156804988
That's not how anime production works, and this is just speculation or more likely projection.
>>156805040
Pandering means creating art by targeting a certain consumer group instead of doing so with artistic freedom.
The most appreciated art has always been the kind that didn't pander to anyone and tried to break new ground.
Why do animes cry out of the corner of their eyes?
>>156805132
>Pandering means creating art by targeting a certain consumer group instead of doing so with artistic freedom.
That's not what it means, and targeting a group is not even mutually exclusive with artistic freedom.
I don't understand why this debate even exists anymore. Nobody has EVER proven even a SINGLE instance of pandering, let alone systemic pandering.
>>156805040
Late-night anime exists to make money from dumb smelly otaku, who are all unattractive losers. But they have money, and they like wasting that money on merchandise and products related to those late-night anime shows, so it's fine to pander towards them.
>>156805163
>animes
I think you mean toons
>>156805185
Denial.
>>156805187
>Late-night anime exists to make money from dumb smelly otaku, who are all unattractive losers.
This is just a fantasy of yours.
>>156805208
No.
>>156800858
Is that a problem???
>>156805206
It's called toonimes.
>>156805262
Apparently knowing your audience and producing content that they might enjoy is a bad thing.
>>156805262
Leads to stagnation.
>>156805363
>circular logic
No
>>156800858
Anime became too trope ridden and pandering some time in the mid 80s
>>156805363
>Is [thing] bad?
>Yes because [blank]
>actually [thing] doesn't exist
Nice one.
>>156805373
How is it circular logic?
>>156805398
But they don't exist.
Being a male otaku is truly being a failure. Not only are the male otaku not buying enough anime to be worth pandering towards to anymore, but they're also being outdone in terms of financial power by the female otaku, who like anime like Yuri on Ice and Your Name.
No wonder does the Japanese government want to promote the picture of cute and hip female otaku.
>>156805346
If people still enjoys it and continue to buy it then who cares?
>>156805324
That's not bad, but when the product is more about pleasing the audience fantasies and fetishes than telling a good story there's a problem.
>>156805498
It's not a zero sum game, male otaku are much more spread out, and YoI is not an unprecedented success. There are anime that have sold better, and anime that are in the same sales range. Love Live S2 and Madoka sold more than YoI.
Your Name was a mainstream smash hit and is now the total highest grossing Japanese movie of all time.
>>156805324
When what people's wanted change, they will learned it the hard way. For the time being, let them milk the cow dry.
>>156805676
Fantasies and fetishes aren't mutually exclusive with a good story, and it is not and does not need to be the objective of all anime to be focused on "good" story telling.
>>156805346
>muh stagnation
>>156805588
People with taste?
>>156805794
Everyone's taste in anime is a shit taste for other people anyway
>>156804867
No headcanonposting here please.
>>156805703
Yes it is a zero sum game. Producers are all business men who want to make a maximum amount of money, and it's better to target and pander towards a new consumer base that is willing to spend much of its money towards those products that are being made.
In fact, because the male otaku are not profitable anymore, the anime industry is looking towards women and foreigners.
>>156805794
Those people don't buy anything so they don't matter.
>>156805792
>>156805909
There's all kinds of anime made for all kinds of people, often with dubious or unknown commercial potential. The success of one thing does not result in the entire industry focusing on that thing.
The fact that YoI sold well does not mean male otaku are not profitable as I just told you. You are being hysterical.
>>156806009
This is proven empirically false by Japan's entertainment industries, such as anime.
>>156805794
>watching anime
>people with taste
>>156805786
>Fantasies and fetishes aren't mutually exclusive with a good story
That's why I said that when those are more important than the overall quality of the product something is wrong
>it is not and does not need to be the objective of all anime to be focused on "good" story telling.
I agree on this one. Bad choice of words. Replace good story with good product.
>>156806137
>Japan's entertainment industries, such as anime.
That cliche ridden mess?
>>156806232
Anime is extremely creative, and cliches are universal to fiction. It's just that nowadays you people pretend they are exclusive to anime along with everything else that is bad, because you'll grasp at any straws to attack anime.
>>156806044
The ones that sell well and make tons of money in assorted merchandise are the ones that are also accessible to women or mainly made for them, while the ones that sell like utter shit are for males, who don't buy anything at all.
>>156806416
Again, you are just being hysterical.
>>156800858
>trope-ridden
One of my favorite aspects of anime is its adherence to structure.
Good series work with these 'tropes' in amazing ways, bad series do not and are often horribly executed.
Here are some examples, not describing any title in particular:
>young otaku boy is transported to a mysterious world that's just like his animes and games and he's worshiped by big boobie elf maido
>young otaku boy is transported to a mysterious world that seems just like his animes and games but is actually effected by the dangers of the world and dies in a fantasy ox shit-filled hole after being raped by homosexual orcs
>young otaku boy is transported to a mysterious world and feels he does not belong, he actively tries to destroy this world in an attempt to return, but eventually he discovers that this world is the same as his
>young otaku boy is transported to a mysterious world but is tormented by the constrains of the universe as he lives forever in a grindy JRPG where he can either live out a depressing and violent plot or constantly try to attain some new thing but either never finds that thing or is never satisfied by it
Which would you rather watch?
>>156807254
The rape one. Rape means it's mature, realistic, historically accurate and deep, just like Game of Thrones.
>>156807254
>One of my favorite aspects of anime is its adherence to structure.
That's because you have autism.
>>156800858
It has always been like that.
>>156804527
>implying anyone from that list except maybe Miyazaki is even slightly known to non-fans of anime
They didn't build shit.
>>156804577
Tropes are like spices, in the correct amount they can boost a dish flavor, but use too much or the incorrect ones and you have an unpalatable mess.
problem is, many series use too much darn tropes and have no substance behind it, no plot or plot holes everywhere.
>Pandering does not exist
0/bait
I would say to you to try harder, but its just time to stop
>>156807798
Everything is a trope.
>0/bait
You people have tried, tried, tried, tried, tried and tried to prove it exists, and you simply have not been able to. Ever. You have not been able to proven even one single solitary case of pandering. But somehow I'm "baiting." Ok.
>>156807936
Also, not all shows are even supposed to have a plot, which is a feature and not a bug.
Substance is a meme.
>>156807936
What about that inteview with anime director about having to make shows for otaku?
So, which discord channel are you peeps from? It's clear that you all know each another and are writing your tailored replies.
>>156808046
Who are you referring to?
>>156808024
What interview?
>>156806311
Creatively designing a new MC/Harem with personalities flatter than Konata's Chest
>>156811222
Konata's Chest are awesome