>noble phantasm strikes the heart and kills without fail >only

>>156270336
No, it's ability to do that requires a failed luck save roll to succeed. Otherwise you're just stabbing someone regularly. Throwing it gives your opponent a penalty to help though.

REMINDER THAT THE MAIN REASON WHY GAE BOLG DOESN'T WORK IS BECAUSE COMMAND SEALS ARE OP

Saber probably would have died if Lancer didn't have a "don't kill anyone" command seal order fucking him over.

>>156270649
So your telling me that lancer purposefully whiffed gae bolg

>>156270749
It wasn't on purpose, his Noble Phantasm WILL kill someone if it hits them, and he was under an extremely strong spell powered by the Holy Grail that said he couldn't kill anyone, so that combined with Saber's luck made the unmissable attack miss. If anything it was Kirei's fault for giving him such a retarded command to start with.

>>156270827
You know, I like this explanation. Makes his NP not seem as shitty

Still doesn't change the fact that lancer class is suffering

>>156270885
That's just a meme. Luck stats usually come from compatibility with Master, with some exception (such as the hero's legend. If you were the luckiest bastard in your story, your luck would still be fairly high with poor master compatibility). Cu had awful compatibility with Kotomine, and having a Master related to Angra Mainyu/All The Evils In The World seems to cripple a Servant's luck. Medusa is exceptionally compatible with Sakura, but she has higher Luck under Shinji. Saber by all means should not have compatibility issues with Sakura, but her luck tanked to D or E.

>>156270978
If only Bazette didn't have a luck rank of F

>>156271134
Bazette has garbage luck, but Cu is actually pretty compatible with her, so his luck should've been ok.

>>156270885
He's a winner candidate if it was a normal tournament.

>>156271178
He's legit her husbandou and she specifically summoned him in order to "save" him from the fate he suffered in his legend

>>156270827
>the unmissable attack miss
If there's a saving throw to miss then it was never unmissable.

Reminder that the only reason Cu Chullain's noble phantasms are ranked at ~B is because otherwise he'd have just memed all over Berserker and won the entire thing easily. Duhhhh, an attack that is almost guaranteed to hit the heart and causes a wound that does not heal? Uhhhh call it a B. A spear chuck guaranteed to strike up to 50 people and explodes violently? B+. Sasuga Nasu.

Good thing he never bothered to use the rune magic that kicks up his stats a notch,
god dammit

I want Cu Alter to fuck me.

>>156270978
Angra Mainyu is so unlucky that he makes Dantes, who doesn't even have a luck stat, seem good. He's the guy the universe offloaded all suffering onto.

>>156271433
The rank for attack type NPs are more about raw power. Miscenallneous NPs have other ranking systems.

>>156271492
Being Angra Mainyu is suffering

>be born
>fucked for all eternity

How the fuck did those bastards in the third war even summon him, and how did they not realize such a being would be useless and serve no purpose other than to tint the grail? Bunch of dumbfucks they were

>>156271589
They were trying to summon Angra Mainyu, the God of Evil, from Zoroastrianism. Instead they summoned some generic and completely powerless faggot who just got blamed for all the evil in the world.
It beggars the question of why the fuck they'd go for Angra Mainyu instead of his twin Spenta Mainyu or dad Ahura Mazda, who are Good and not liable to destroy the world.

>>156271585
The "Raw power" of Gate of Babylon isn't really that impressive, in the end it's little better than having a bunch of guys huck swords at people, but it got through Berserker's invincibility just fine.

If you want to explain that away by saying that it's the quality of weapon coming out of the GoB that matters, Gay bulge is literally strong enough to pierce through Raw Ass.

>>156271585
>The rank for attack type NPs are more about raw power. Miscellaneous NPs have other ranking systems.
Yeah. I've been vaguely curious for a while about how exactly Ars Nova is Rank D, and not E.

>>156271681
Well the thing about noble phantasms is that they have their rank whether or not they're being activated. Presumably, Gilgamesh could take out something like Kusanagi and hit Berserker with it without activating it because Kusanagi is going to be like rank A+++ simply due to its age.
Gilgamesh is just firing ancient weapons out of the GoB one after another.

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>>156270336

>>156271733
That's fine and all but it still doesn't explain why a spear more powerful than fucking Gungnir is only B

>>156271805
Can I just say that that's pretty fucking stupid?

>>156271839
As are most things related to Kinoko "Mollusk fetishist" Nasu

>>156271681
It pierced through a Raw Ass that got its ranked downgraded by 1.

>>156271645
Edgy faggots aside, those 2 probably doesn't fit in any containers that were available. Considering Grand Order's system has Ruler and Avenger as valid classes, the Einzbern probably just hacked the grail and swapped Berserker for Avenger/Ruler (Apocrypha) rather than made their own Avenger container just for Angra Mainyu. Berserker is considered a jobber class to compensate for weak heroic spirits, so they swapped it for Avengers and went for the biggest baddest spirit that could qualify

>>156271805
>>156271839
The Gungnir thing is just one of the few inconsistencies in the 'rules' that are presented in FSN. After the franchise got bigger, they lost the ability to pragmatically redact that line as they did the sex scenes. I don't think it really means anything.

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>>156271946
Fair enough
Speaking of sex scenes that need to be redacted, Nasu has a serious problem

>>156271912
The Fuyuki Grail system isn't "the" Grail system; it has a bunch of meaningless restrictions and rules to it, like the 'assassins are always hassans' thing and the 14-day time limit. Grand Order's system doesn't need things like that, so it doesn't have them.

>>156271990
>'07 posting
>people seriously using "lulz" and "for the win"

Such innocent times. You think in 10 years people will look at screencaps of our posts and cringe at how we use "kek" and "kys" and etc.?

Anyways I'm glad 10 years later we still make fun of Nasu sex scenes. It is timeless

>>156272196
People already cringe at that shit, because it's cancerous garbage. Back then lulz and ftw weren't considered cancer. Neither were ragecomics iirc, although I'm not sure on that count.

>>156272196
People are already cringing at kys

>>156272063
I might be wrong on this but aren't the Grail War Servant system just copies of the world's own Guardian deployment system? The Fuyuki system has its own inconsistencies (such as the Assassin's name being a catalyst on its own), but the containers thing are just copies. So the Einzbern just changed the Berserker container to one of the other two, instead of creating their super-special-snowflake container just for a single summoning

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>>156272295
Yes, that's about right, on the Guardian thing. But, there's more than two other containers. There's also bizarre, obscure ones that generally go unused like Gatekeeper, Saver and Shielder. Still not sure if Watcher counts as one..

>>156272612
I thought Saver was a Moon Cell hax?

>tfw ill finally be able to understand what the fuck you people are takling about once GO is released in the US in summer

Thank god they decided to be nice to us EOPs for once

>>156272666
Then swap out Saver for Faker or something; my point still stands.

>>156273023
I'm surprised to hear that. Do we have a release date because despite the cancer, it's still Fate and I lap that shit up.

Don't know about you guys but I think I might aim for a Saint Martha based team with my tutorial roll.
Though having seen Ruler Martha's spread from the future summer event, I think it might be hard to get some synergy going between both of them.

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>>156270336
Killing techniques usually fail miserably, both if it's user or victim dying.

"Can anyone withstand the power of shun goku satsu??? I'm not etc.etc."

>literally takes victim into hell, and unleashes punishment on their soul

>used five times on five people (plot usages)

>noone died of it, including one Guy that literally blocked every 'hit'

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>>156273129
I recall the month "June" being drifted around, but I have no means of verifying or proving that. I wish I did. Perhaps another will have proof of what I say.

Though I am wholly grateful for an English GO - it's something we could never have expected, after all - I'm kind of passively upset that they won't make an official translation of Strange Fake even as an extra or something. I mean, it wouldn't cost them much (especially given GO's profits), and it'd save the fanbase a year of waiting per volume to discuss its contents.

>>156273129
All that's known so far is "summer 2017". It was just announced like 6 or 7 days ago.

Hopefully it's early in the summer because fuck I want to see what all the hype is about gil's story in GO

Of course we could have read english-translated transcripts by now if we truly wanted to know the story this badly, but fuck that shit.

>>156272295
>I might be wrong on this but aren't the Grail War Servant system just copies of the world's own Guardian deployment system?
where is this stated?

>>156270336
its almost as if the entire series has been written by complete hacks

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>>156274228
>Heroic Spirits were Heroes who have left behind great feats in legends after death and become subjects of belief. Normally, a Heroic Spirit is summoned by the world as power that protects humans. The ones summoned by humans are Servants. However, Heroic Spirits cannot be controlled by humans, and to summon them, the Holy Grail or something with power of that sort must be used. The Servant system of Fuyuki summons Heroic Spirits with the power of the Greater Grail. Heroic Spirits summoned as Servants are like "emanations", copies created using the information of the main body of the Heroic Servant.

>>156272666
Nope, Savior's a natural role, but Saviors cannot be summoned artificially. They pretty much summon themselves when the time is right.
Buddha was interested in Twice, and so he jammed his way into the moon cell.

>>156274478
so basically Alaya has an in-built system that summons Counter Guardians in Low Humanity universes and Heroic Spirits in High Humanity setting, correct? Also, I could use a source.

>>156271645
>why the fuck they'd go for Angra Mainyu instead of his twin Spenta Mainyu or dad Ahura Mazda, who are Good and not liable to destroy the world
Because they can't summon a literal god. They could only summon a man-made god, the idea of evil.

>>156275000
>summons Counter Guardians in Low Humanity universes and Heroic Spirits in High Humanity setting
Not quite. I'll start with the core of the problem with what you said. In 'low humanity' worlds, Heroic Spirits cannot be summoned at all. In 'high humanity' worlds, the Dead Apostle Ancestor organization does not exist, and also Heroic Spirits can be summoned.

Counter Guardians are a subset of Heroic Spirits. They are, essentially, just those people who make a contract in life to become a Servant after their life - the most obvious example is Shirou, aka EMIYA. They are summoned by Alaya in order to fix shit that causes problems for humanity.

The main body of the summoning 'protocol', as it were, is the Counter Force. It summons whatever it needs in order for whatever it wants to be done. The design "Servant" was made to prevent the extinction of mankind caused by the Beasts: 7 of the strongest Heroic Spirits (Grands) would stop the end of the world. That's the origin point of summoning stuff. The ritual was modified into the Holy Grail War, and, essentially because nobody has nearly as much power as the Counter Force, 'standard' Servants are summoned for those.

>>156271681
GoBs rank is given a range as opposed to a fixed rank value if I remember right. After all it's only as powerful as the thing it chucks out.

>>156275547
I wanna see a drunk Gil shooting Ea at somebody.

>>156275487
Does that mean Chaldea is literally the counter force then?

>>156276233
Chaldeas is a copy of the soul of Alaya. There's a bunch of mechanisms related to it in Chaldea (the location), and it's all very confusing and annoying; just wait for the English release, and we'll all be able to understand it better then.

>>156276445
Burgers got fucked in the ass by the English release though since they're banned from the Japan version and their shit don't port

>>156276891
They aren't banned from the Japanese version. Unless they were *just* banned, within the last 24 hours or so, they aren't banned.

>>156275487
But the last I heard was that CG can be summoned in Low Humanity Universes as they're linked to despair, while HS are linked to hope.

>>156277016
They're supposedly getting banned with the release of the English version.

>>156277244
This is the quote:
>The people living in those worlds would have no way of knowing this, but the Twenty-Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors, said to be the apex of the Dead Apostles, do not exist in worlds where Heroic Spirit summoning is possible.

I don't know the content of what you heard, nor from where you heard it, so I can't really say anything on it either way.

>>156277362
A bunch of people were freaking out without reason about it a week or so ago, but there was never any statement made about it. As far as I know.

>>156277388
Leaving that aside for a second, does a possibility exist that somehow an HS summoning system goes haywire in a High Humanity Universe, allowing for the possibility of summoning Servants?

In simpler terms, is it possible that a Holy Grail War starts without an Holy Grail itself?

>>156277444
>does a possibility exist that somehow an HS summoning system goes haywire in a Low* Humanity Universe, allowing for the possibility of summoning Servants?
In rare, non-central worlds or anomalies, sure. That is how Strange Fake exists.

>>156270649
I've ragged on and on about the more bullshit than usual plot armor Saber displays in this scene for years and years now, but this is the one explanation that I think actually makes a lot of sense.
I wish Nasu would have mentioned this when explaining why Gae Bolg missed rather than giving a cop out "Durrrr luck stat" answer.

>>156270336
He was so much more powerful as Caster. He beat pretty much everybody except Alter Saber.

>>156278737
It's not that he was necessarily more powerful. Just that when we see him in FSN vs similar people, he was nerfed the entire time.
I'd argue that he's stronger as a Lancer but more creative as a Caster.

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>There are people who don't like Vlad "Pussy Impaler" Tepes
I still can't believe it.

How would Kayneth fair if he actually got Rider like he wanted, while Waver gets Lancer?

>>156279047
Rider and Kayneth probably would've clashed since Rider is a fucking king and Kayneth is a little proud bitch

>>156279047
Poorly. Iskandar already calls out Hotwheels for his faggotry in F/Z.
Kayneth would have been better summoning Saber for at least then he would have had a good, honorable servant and wouldn't have resorted to shooting a cunt in the face out of desperation.

>>156273264
Wasn't it some bullshit like emptying your soul that made you immune to that?
Also Goutetsu got deleted by it, so there's +1 to the body count.

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>>156279047
Was gonna post this, basically: >>156279194
Iskandar says that he would never be a Servant to fastwheels. My memory is foggy, but Iskandar may have even said that he would kill him had he been summoned by fastwheels.

>>156271433
>rune magic
God I'm so pissed her never really shows this shit off. Just the "1v1 me faggot" rune alone would let him easily win the Grail War by isolating the other Masters into combat with him.

>>156270336
His backstory was the best part of HA.

>>156270336
It worked on Bazett, too. Unfortunately because of her NP it got both of them killed.

Compared to archer from fate zero, archer from fate fucking sucks

>>156280253
UBW>GoB

countered

>>156279027
I'd let him impale my man-pussy

Reminder that Rin can raise Lancer's luck stat

>>156280343
Rin makes any servant better.

>>156280367
Cu makes any master better.

>>156280422
kuzuki disagrees

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>Gets shit on in every route in Fate/Stay Night
>In Hollow Ataraxia he just chills out and takes odd jobs/fishes and hits on girls

I'd love to chill on the docks and fish the day away with Cu

>>156280462
kudzuki not real master
he is relative of rapist shiki
cu cannot improve happiness of raping fist artist

>>156270827
I'm fairly certain that none of that was ever refered to, the actualy explanation was high luck of Saber herself, which made her barely survive.

>>156280422
Asides from Alex, I think he'd been nice for Waver desu

>>156280557
Fishing away, the moments that make up a dull day while listening to his tale told by the man himself must be pretty chill
He can also teach you how to pick up girls while he tells you how he used to fuck Scat

>>156280595
>raping fist artist
hes just a social studies teacher, what slander is this?

>>156280557
I'm kinda sad that they didn't take the chance to make him reenact the 1 vs an army story form his legend during the final battle. Instead he's still just chilling out.

>>156280822
I'm more troubled by the fact that he's just sitting there watching while everybody, even fucking Gil, is trying to help his master

>>156280812
He's supposed to be from a clan that trains children to be assassins. I connected that to Shiki, ran with it, and reverse-engineered the Japanese for 'martial artist' to make a jokey "foreigner" post

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True E rank luck coming through. Medusa has a lot of chances to shine, yet she always ends up being irrelevant or dies first jobbing hard. She keeps having these important occasions (Extella, Babylon in GO, even H/F) yet she never manages to be memoerable or gets outshined by some other character.

>If humanity can't live atleast 100 years that universe is purged.
>If humanity progresses too far, it gets purged.
>If humanity doesn't progress far enough, it gets purged.

For some reason low humanity worlds don't get purged, despite humanity being fucked over in it? What did Nasu mean by this?

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What did Nasu mean by this?

>>156281235
If you do the right thing by killing crazy cultists and their leader, you will blow out your magic circuits and your skin becomes darker.

Also you become edgy.

>>156281183
Now I'm only a Fatefag and read only Fate related shit, can you explain me this low humanity world and high humanity world stuff?

>>156281354
Low Humanity = Dead Apostles and their organization exists. (Melty Blood/Tsukihime/KnK)

High Humanity = Dead Apostles organization never happened. (Fate)

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>>156281235
What's Pucci doing in Fate

>>156281354
We both keep saying 'humanity' because we don't remember the actual words for it in the lore. It's the concept of the "dominant species" on the planet. In the Nasuverse, being the dominant species means that the world actually bends, conceptually, to give you good fortune, success, et cetera.

In essentially all of the Nasu works that aren't Fate-related, vampires are the dominant species. The vampires have the power. In those universes, the world doesn't 'bend around' humans, so the summoning of Heroic Spirits and things like that aren't possible. In the Fate universes, humans are the dominant species; humans have the power. The world bends to help humans, so summoning Heroic Spirits and the ilk is possible, but the existence of vampiric organizations with a lot of power is not possible - *because* the vampires don't have the power in these worlds.

Does that begin to make any sense?

>>156281183
Incorrect. Those in which humanity 'loses' just get quantum locked, but are not purged. Not necessarily.

>>156273502
You're going to be waiting a long while. Babylon was only released late last year, and it's unlikely that the American release will launch with singularities past Septum.

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I don't know if this is the right thread for this, but does somebody have an updated version of this chart?

>>156270336

Fate is RPG. Attacker declares intention to attack, the attack does something specific (magical), defender rolls dice to see if they are allowed to defend, if check passes, roll to see how much can defended. Luck just determines how much of the roll is a save or fail, probably again altered by comparing the two characters luck stats, since sabers is high more slots on the die count as save (instead of it being say 1 to save, it's 1-3 to save).

I'm sure nasu made up a better flow character of combat interaction, but that's just how I see the series since they all have 'stats' and magic that says it can do something, but can still fail or be blocked.

It just feels like a game someone played through then wrote up. The problem is coming to it and not seeing the pen and paper vibes, and being frustrated with walls of text saying 'something happens' but forgetting that those are 'normal, non-interfered' circumstances before luck the momentary context is analyzed (a battle, characters doing things to mitigate attacks).

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>>156281100
N-not a single fellow Medusafag joins me in this pain? This just confirms what I said ;_;

>>156271990

But that is a translation. A pretty crap one at that. I won't deny the real Jap is great for a sex scene, but the choice of words for the translation also isn't great.

As for retracting the sex from FSN, I think that was a bad move. Occult magic based on sex is common, why remove such a thing? You don't need to show it on screen, but still imply it (pretty sure it's still a function of the fate universe's magic right?).

>>156284516
It's not that you're a Riderfag, it's that you're a Grand Order cuck.
End your life.

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>>156281100
>true E rank luck

that'd be pic related

>>156280942
>"foreigner" post
issei get out

>>156285617
I just like Gorgon's artist and had a GO pic, I actually hate that piece of shit game and the 30 shitty Arturias

>>156285923
Yeah, Medea sure as hell has it worse, what makes Medusa more unlucky is the fact that she keeps having all these occasions to shine and every single time I'm left disappointed.

>>156286422
Alright, you're an OK Riderfag then.

>>156283351
I do not but i can wholeheartedly assure you that if you get through half that chart you'll know enough about the franchise to be able to navigate on your own.

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>FGO coming out in English
>Having to collect my cute waifu and level up her relationship again

I'm actually okay with this.

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>>156287305
>collect my cute waifu and level up her relationship
thats most of the reason im looking forward to it

>>156287305
>have to wait for months to get past rome again
I'm not okay with this.

>>156287411
She's married

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>>156287305
Be thankful yours isn't a 5*. I don't know how I'll manage until a rate-up.
>>156287448
At least I'll get to see all those events I missed. Nerofest America abroad is going to be hilarious.

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>>156287467
to me

>>156281100

She won the grail war in HF.

>>156287305
Are you fucking stupid or what? The actual game is not going to kick you out or anything.

Give me a single reason for you to play this english version.

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>>156289441
I thought I said. So I can collect my cute waifu and level up my relationship with her again.

>>156289441
Because he hasn't accepted that Nasuverse lore is worthless trash now that bends to pander to waifufags, so he actually wants to read it and understand it instead of just collecting waifus like the game was made for.

>>156289904
Roman a best waifu

>>156289977
Same shit, different gender.

>>156280900
He knows the current situation is wrong and his former Master is being a pussy. Plus, his current Master isn't Bazett, it's Caren.

>>156281729
Does that mean Arcueid doesn't exist in Fate?

>>156291289
Yes.
Nu-Nasuverse lol.

>>156291289
The organization of the DAA cannot exist, but DAs can still exist. Hence Zelretch hanging around.

How are vampires the dominant species of Tsukihime when they keep getting murdered by Arcueid? Also Shiki himself kills like four of them.

>>156291289
Don't worry about it. Arch-type Earth is coming to Grand Order according to Nasu.

He said he wanted to make Arc a 4-star Servant.

>>156291710
Because it's a retcon in Prototype Fragments to make Grand Order's Servant-wanking plot work better.

>>156291289
Arc existed in Fate/Extra.

>>156293367
Actually retconned as fanservice.
While Waver, Rin, Taiga, Shiki and Kiritsugu as Servants are absolutely canon.

>>156294216
>EMIYA (Assassin)
>An assassin who manifested as a proxy of the Counter Force.
>Originally, he was not a Heroic Spirit.
>An individual who murdered many people as an assassin, but his existence has not been carved in the Throne of Heroes.
>A "mock Heroic Spirit" also called guardian, and someone who does not exists in the proper human history.
>This "if that might have been possible" exists only due the threat that attempts to destroy human history itself from its very foundation... in the Grand Order case alone.

Canonical only as an absolute anomaly.

>>156294344
Still more canon than the The Twenty-seven Ancestors of the Dead Apostles in Fate/stay night.

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>>156294344
"Absolute anomalies" seem to crop up every other day in this franchise

>>156294566

Well you're not gonna want to summon a STANDARD dude are you? Standard dudes will lose you the war.

>>156294514
It literally says that he doesn't exist in reality and is a hypothetical existence - a hypothetical existence who exists in an anomalous time bubble that disappears once it's fixed.

>>156294708
Right. I'm sure literal gods and historical figures inhabiting the bodies of popular characters from previous works, and Taiga's, is also a very anomalous occurence and extremely well explained in lore.
Doesn't make it any less shitty or cheap in both cases.

>>156294924
It's a phone game. The entire point is fanservice.

>>156294924
I'm not sure why you're trying to start a debate, nor am I in any way certain of what point you are trying to make. I was simply suggesting that calling the Servant Kiritsugu "canon" was largely misleading. It's like if I said that Shirou defeats Gil on literally one million separate occasions: it would be technically true because of infinite timelines, but it misdirects the uninformed reader.

>>156295069
Nah man, it's Nasu's magnum opus and the first work in the franchise to deal with so many badass Servants at once. It actually advances the lore unlike F/SN and Tsukihime filler.
Treat it with respect pls.

>>156295297
Sorry man, I'll rewrite the post.

>Actually retconned as fanservice.
>While Waver, Rin, Taiga, and Shiki as Servants are absolutely canon.

>>156295400
Again, you seem to bear some unwarranted hostility and a desire to confront a nonexistent enemy. Realize what you are doing, then move forward.

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So if you win the Holy Grail War and wish for the Root to become your wife/waifu.

What happens? Would the Root become your waifu in all realities and try to manifest itself as a physical being?

If you make the Root your waifu, does that mean its a cuck because there might be a timelines in which you cheat on it with another person?

>>156295506
Nah, it's all good. You corrected me for something that's not entirely accurate, even though the original point remains the same. Thank you anyway.