So I recently rewatched all episodes up until Koimonogatari,

>>156256470
>"cluck cluck cluck cluck cluck cluck cluck."

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>>156256470
>It however also confirmed that my one true love in Monogatari will always be Snek

Literally how. She is the shittiest girl of the series

>>156256566
Why, because she isn't after Araragi's dick?

>>156256817
wat

>>156256817
Dunno why that anon dislikes her, personally I just dislike her because she goes nuts over the pettiest shit in the world and then gets coddled into getting better as opposed to everyone else taking that big step into getting better themselves. Also for someone who was supposed to be canon adorable, design-wise she's pretty much the least cute girl in the series to me.

KanaHana's voice acting during the parts where she spergs out were fun though, especially the classroom scene.

>>156256817
>Why, because she isn't after Araragi's dick?
It's passed april fools

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>>156257343
>Dunno why that anon dislikes her, personally I just dislike her because she goes nuts over the pettiest shit in the world and then gets coddled into getting better as opposed to everyone else taking that big step into getting better themselves.
But the whole point of her character is that she's just raised that way. She's raised by parents who don't really care about what she wants, and just wants her to be cute and innocent. She's expected by everyone around her to be cute and lovely, and helpless. She constantly fakes her smiles and just goes along with it all. She grows into being a victim so long that it's the only thing she knows.

That's why her deciding to let Kaiki deceive her in order to become a Mangaka was a big deal, it was her finally letting go of being a victim in favor of working to achieve one of her own dreams.

>>156257977
That's partly true but nah, she understood what she was doing as well. She was intentionally taking the approach of non-action for everything because it was easier for her that way.

I don't dislike her because I thought she was a bad person (most of the cast are arguably bad people) or whatever by the way, I just found her story uninteresting with an unsatisfying conclusion even by this series' standards.

Whatever, she's still Redditgahara.

Hitagi is love

>>156256566
>shittiest girl of the series
That spot is already reserved for slutgahara.

>>156261159
this

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>>156256470

Only haters hate on other peoples waifus.

>>156256470
Are you me
except for snek. rewatch just made me realize exactly how worst girl she really was

>>156256566
That's Hanekawa and Math.

>>156256817
Do you know who Snake is?

>>156257343
>and then gets coddled into getting better as opposed to everyone else taking that big step into getting better themselves
This complaint doesn't make any sense. She took plenty of steps into helping herself after Koi after Kaiki set her on the right path. And nobody in Monogatari has gotten anywhere without advice from someone else.

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>>156262622
Why are you bullying this poor little angel?

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>>156262694
Ah duh?

>>156263048
Then you know she craved the Araragi cock just like so many others.

>>156263416
Why the fuck do you watch Monogatari if you're missing this shit after Nisio beats you over the head with it?

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She is lying to Araragi about Kaiki. She knows that Koi was cheating.

>>156256985
>>156257481
>>156262694
The whole point of Otorimonogatari was to reveal that Sengoku's love for Araragi was only an excuse not to bother to try and achieve anything real in life. She never loved Araragi, she liked the excuse of loving Araragi to not pursue other relationships. Because she's raised to be a helpless underachiever who relies on others.

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From Mayoi Hell.
Senjougahara is a slut and Araragi is a cuck.

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>>156263495
I really like the dynamic between Hitagi and Kaiki, and how it's slowly revealed that he did try to help her but failing miserably and never correcting the assumption that he did nothing

All monogataris are shit except shinobu.

>>156263698
I totally believe that you're a batfag and not just trying to start a fight.

>>156263482
>>156263582
A girl doesn't have to be in love with a guy to crave his cock, naive little boys.

>>156264006
so now you're just arguing opinions and facts unrelated to the anime?

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>>156256470
>>156263681

Dudes, I adored Hitagi from the first episode I watched (the 3rd one in the park), but Kaiki brings out the best in her, the more immature, but infinitely more realistic version of her. It's oh so satisfying to see her knocked down from her pedestal from where it was as though she could do no wrong and had complete control of every situation that came her way.

It's crazy how hard Kaiki tries to conceal how much he cares about her though.

>>156258229
>She was intentionally taking the approach of non-action for everything because it was easier for her that way

The anon you're responding to implied this when he said she's just going along with it. But, repeating what he said, she's been going with the flow so long, playing the role of the "cute girl", that it's the only thing she knows how to do. You can't expect her to come up with a solid game plan to solve her problems when she's been taking the easy route of having other people do it for her.

The conversation you guys are having now is really putting into perspective the time when she flipped out on the principal and when she flipped out on her class. When you don't know what to do, if you have no emotional control, you'll just throw a tantrum, heh.

and pic is attached for OP.

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>>156264697
Thanks man, I though my little anecdote was going to go largely unnoticed amidst the floods of crabfags posting but boy was I wrong

This is why Koi is in the top3 arcs

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>>156265174
I want more Kaiki protag

>>156263582
she loves him

>>156265281
Is Kaiki a mary sue?

>>156256470
>so I noticed just how likable and good character Senjougahara actually is

Are we watching the same series? Unless your argument is "developed" rather than "likable and good" then I could agree but even by Monogatari standards, she's still pretty underdeveloped.

Senjougahara is a terrible person with an attachment to losers.
It's probably why she jumped on RRRG's dick immediately. She realized he was a high-functioning Kaiki and knew to get on that.

>>156265309
Mary sue's are not usually portrayed as greedy compulsive liars, so no.

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>>156265309
Nope. He's just running away from his problems in a literal and figurative sense so he's gotta be quick.

>>156265323
A lot of people find Senjougahara's devotion and strong-willed attitude likable, I guess.

I agree with you, though. It always bothers me how Nisio seems to gloss over the fact that she's actually a pretty horrible person in most respects.

>>156265439
>devotion
>broke up with Araragi multiple times

I agree with your statement but to say Senjougahara is devoted sorta rings hollow as of Musubi revealing that she's incapable of being a decent person in situations that affect Araragi but not herself directly.

>>156265512
Yeah, I don't disagree. I think she's been like that way before Musubi, even. (See: she didn't even want to let Araragi go to save his sister in Nise because she was hellbent on keeping him from Kaiki.) But other people look at "oh, she saved his life!" or "oh, she said she wants to be with him forever!" and are satisfied with that.

>>156265512
Well, she makes a big show of being devoted.
It was actually Karen, with the way she instantly and casually affirmed that she would die for him, who first made me realize how shallow their relationship is compared to some of Araragi's others.

>>156265703
Senjougahara has been a pretty terrible person her entire life.
The only time she wasn't was during her middle school years and even Araragi admits that was Senjougahara lying to people.

I think Senjougahara might actually share more in common with Kaiki than she'd like to admit given they both share a penchant for manipulation and are losers.
Though in Kaiki's defence, he's a good person who happens to be a loser with no sense of personal direction. Senjougahara is a bad person pretending to be a good person under the cover of a rough person.

>>156263676
I honestly can't picture Kaiki as a pedo. He isn't that dumb.

>>156265309
Nah, it's just told from Monkey's perspective. He probably took a shortcut or something.

Crab haters are so delusional. It's been 10 years and they're still butthurt she won they have to make up shit to make her look bad.

>>156265917
>Senjougahara has been a pretty terrible person her entire life.
Oh, no doubt. When I said she's been like that before Musubi, I just meant it in terms of the narrative making it really obvious.

I'm not sure I have much more to add to what you've said, but I'm glad to finally find someone who agrees with me about this. Even when people shit on Crab, it's usually just because she's "boring," not because she's a terrible person being crammed down the audience's throat as cool and admirable.

>>156266085
That's making assumptions about his character when Mayoi Hell and Nisemonogatari give us points which would say otherwise.
Denying Kaiki for having feelings for a young teen would be like arguing Araragi doesn't kiss little girls.

One may argue that Kaiki's professionalism and pining for Tooe may have prevented him from acting (which is a reasonable assumption) but his relationship with Senjougahara is full of subtext.

>>156266187
It's fine. People that love Crab/Snake/Bat etc will ignore those traits or downplay them because it's the character they like.

It's why there are so few Gaenfags. It's really hard to justify liking Gaen so to like her you really have to accept that she's a piece of shit doing stuff for the legitimate greater good of humanity.

There won't be a Gaenfag in existence who's first thought isn't "This woman is sandpaper"

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>>156263676

This was already made more than apparent.

>>156265309

No.

He's a ghost.

>>156266299
>People that love Crab/Snake/Bat etc will ignore those traits or downplay them because it's the character they like.
I meant by the story itself, though. Nisio spent a whole arc giving us reasons why Snake is a bad person, and despite Batfags always portraying her as a saint, I don't think Nisio himself ever pretends like she's perfect or never did anything wrong. Senjougahara, on the other hand, is always treated as an awesome person who overcame all her problems on her own, despite the fact that her actions are still pretty fucked up.

Of course, I think part of the problem is that the books are narrated by Araragi, who doesn't exactly have an unbiased view of her.

>>156266441
Batfags portray her as having good reasons for the things she does wrong and/or growing so she won't do the same wrong things again.

>>156263676
i really hope araragi dumb her
she can be with kaiki

>>156266588
Okay, Batfag.

>>156266624
Yes. I am. How am I not supposed to speak up when words are being put into my mouth?

>>156266441
This is 100% true. Ultimately though we could blame it being Araragi's view of her and I agree that plays a huge part but the dissonance between her actions, words and thoughts compared to Araragi's thoughts on her is just too strong.

>>156266652
I have seen countless posts in these threads about how Shinobu has never hurt anyone on purpose, etc., etc. I don't care if you specifically have said that, other people have.

>>156266085
He's a Japanese man, do you really need more evidence that he would fall for a teenage girl?

Is Araragi the only character who's never done anything wrong?

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>>156266845

>>156266845
That would be Mayoi. She's pretty much the least fucked-up of the series.
The worst thing she did was bring brotha Darkness onto the scene and it's debatable whether or not she knew of the Darkness and what it's purpose was.
The moment it was written in stone why it was following her, she killed herself.

>>156263676
It's possible Araragi sees Kaiki as competition for Senjougahara.
Recall it was Ougi who manipulated that kid into knifing Kaiki. And Ougi is Araragi's manifested wish for correcting his problems.

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This was not what I expected would happen when I made this thread, but I like it none the less

>>156267194
>Recall it was Ougi who manipulated that kid into knifing Kaiki.
Wait, I don't remember this. When does that happen?

> “If things had gone differently, those embers might have ignited into a flame—when you think about it that way, both life and love truly have a mind of their own.”
> “So, what do you think, Araragi-san? What if you were the one who stood in the way of Senjougahara-san and Kaiki-san’s romance?”
> “What do I think? That he had it coming, obviously.”
KEK

>>156268095
It's implied. After beating Kaiki with the pipe, the kid says something like, "It's just like Ougi-san told me, you really did come back!"

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>>156266882
That's pretty spoogi

>>156265281
can someone explain what monkeys legs are doing between 7 and 11 seconds. I'm having trouble picturing how this would work. Something seems incredibly off.

>>156272261
Stomp down to kill momentum, swing leg around to help turn faster, resume running.

>>156272327
yeah i got that part. but she slams down what looks to be her right leg (angled slightly to the left.) but the spin she does makes it seem as if her right leg became a left leg. also taking the torso into account and this whole scene looks wrong.

>>156272475
She stomps down her left foot. It's hard to keep track of because of the cut in the middle and her shoe design.

>>156256470
You are just stupid anon. Crab a shit.

>>156262717
>She took plenty of steps into helping herself after Koi after Kaiki set her on the right path. And nobody in Monogatari has gotten anywhere without advice from someone else.
No one else was coddled as hard as she was. She took "steps" after someone else decided everything for her. Every other character was more proactive before that point, with the person who helped them merely being there as support.

Which would be fine except for the fact that her whole issue was petty as hell and pretty much fucking nothing compared to everything almost every other character had been through in this series. "Her parents raised her that way" is an excuse she hid behind and the arc says as much, she knew what she was doing was wrong and didn't really care. If you like her for that then that's fine but don't go saying that she did nothing wrong.

>>156264697
>that it's the only thing she knows how to do. You can't expect her to come up with a solid game plan to solve her problems when she's been taking the easy route of having other people do it for her.
It wasn't the "only thing she knew how to do", it was just the easiest. No one told her to start putting Araragi on a pedestal and shit either.

Again, that'd be an interesting character potentially but for the fact that she had shitty reasoning for losing it as hard as she does at all.

>>156263676
Wouldn't this mean that Araragi cucked Kaiki though? That Senjougahara could've ended up with Kaiki but Araragi goes and takes her anyway? I don't get this cuck meme at all, feels like you guys just use the word pretty randomly nowadays

>>156274190
I'm pretty sure he has the month where Gahara and Kaiki met behind Araragi's back in mind.

>>156274233
I thought he didn't know about that? He'd probably have their meeting in Nise in mind if anything

>>156274280
he = >>156263676

>>156274315
Am I missing something? He knew as early as Nise that they had some sort of past already, nothing about Koi was mentioned in >>156263676

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>falling for the Snake is worst meme
Plebs. That spot is reserved for Gaen.

>>156263681
I don't get why everyone gives a pass on Kaiki messing up with Gahara yet at the same time berateing Koyomi over the Nadeko situation, which was entirely driven by Nadeko in the first place. Is it just because it's cool to hate on the MC or what?

>>156274472
The entire second half of the series is focused on Araragi messing up at everything he does + Kaiki mishandling Gahara's problem originally is something that's completely glossed over by the narrative, that's why.

Also the parallel is sorta lost I guess since Shaft animated Suruga Devil out-of-order (it originally was released before Hitagi End) but similar to how Kaiki was the one to assist Nadeko instead of Araragi like he wanted, in Suruga Devil Araragi's the one who assists Kanbaru (by literally telling her to ignore all the shit everyone else had been telling her up to that point even) instead of Kaiki like he wanted to.

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>mfw snek got redeemed in the newer novels after her character development

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>>156274472
Kaiki fucked up and moved on to leave Senjougahara to her own devices knowing that he was unable to help further.
Araragi continued to approach Nadeko even though he was getting stabbed repeatedly and was exacerbating the problem every time he approached.

Ultimately Kaiki was acting in the good of Senjougahara, Araragi was acting in the good of himself.
The fact Kaiki attempted to "cut off the infection" by trying to remove Senjougahara from her mother shows that unlike Araragi, he understood what the problem affecting Senjou was. His only issue was that Senjougahara clung to her mother too hard and it effectively achieved nothing.

Araragi completely misunderstood the Nadeko situation, continued to make it worse by going in front of Nadeko and letting her indulge her hissy fit by taking it out on him, effectively affirming in her mind that the route she is taking is correct and that violence is the right response since Araragi continues to come for her regardless of how she treats him and then Araragi being completely ineffectual in actually trying to convince her to give up on being a God and doing nothing to actually rectify the mistake even though as we know, Araragi was actively feeding Shinobu serious amounts of blood so that his regen would negate the poison damage he was taking meaning he could have had Shinobu drain Nadeko and temp solve the issue.

tl;dr Kaiki was more on point about his actions, Araragi wasn't.

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>>156274633
A bit biased because I didn't find her cute before admittedly, but hot damn she looks like shit after her Japanese character development.

Would like to see her interact with Musubi Araragi though, since they've both apparantly matured somewhat. It was aparantly implied that Gaen got to her too like she did to Araragi, so the setup for it is all there.

>>156274633
I'm down for that. I believed she was unredeemable but after Musubi shows her getting her shit together and Gaen getting to her in Nadeko Draw I think she's effectively NisiO's longest case of character development.

>>156274724
>Kaiki fucked up and moved on to leave Senjougahara to her own devices knowing that he was unable to help further.
Nah, he was looking to get in contact with her again. Then backed off again because Araragi got there first.

Also Nadeko was threatening to destroy the town. The only parallel the two situations had was that Kaiki & Araragi inadvertantly made Gahara & Nadeko's problems worse, a comparison between any of the other facts doesn't hold up. You're misinterpreting the conclusion of that arc, it was less that Koyomi was approaching the problem in the wrong way (at that point), it was that he couldn't solve the problem in any way due to what his role in it was. Him just ignoring her entirely wouldn't have solved it, someone had to deal with Snake God Nadeko.

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>>156274775
Snake is probably the craziest of the bunch (except from maybe Math, who rather keeps it to herself and suffers) so it's nice to see that she's working back from that and accepting her mistakes.

>>156274837
I think Godeko just threatened to go after those around Araragi, not destroy the entire town IIRC.

But yeah people are a bit too hard on Araragi for that whole mess I feel, he treated her in the exact same way he treats Kanbaru. One got healed over time whereas the other one went fucking nuts.

>>156274870
I wouldn't say she accepted her mistakes. She's not repeating them, but she's never really done anything about them and just hopes that they don't bite her in the ass.

>>156274837
When I meant "left to her own devices" I mean purely in the immediate sense. He left and then four more conmen came in and fucked it up worse.
He didn't pull an Araragi and repeatedly attempt to sort the issue after the first fuck-up.

>it was less that Koyomi was approaching the problem in the wrong way (at that point), it was that he couldn't solve the problem in any way due to what his role in it was.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. I think it was a special situation where Kaiki was the only person dark enough to understand where Nadeko was coming from to be able to formulate a proper approach to speaking to her.

While I don't disagree that Araragi's position in the entire thing made it a failure from the get-go. I also don't believe had he been a third party attempting to fix it like in Bakemonogatari with the rest of the cases then he would have been able to fix it then either.
Nadeko herself was just incompatible with how Araragi solves the issues. As lackluster and half-assed as the results he usually gets are, Nadeko required a result which was to completely separate herself from mentality she carried rather than fixing it like Kanbaru or Hanekawa.

>Him just ignoring her entirely wouldn't have solved it, someone had to deal with Snake God Nadeko.

This I agree with. However I think Gaen would have solved the issue given she was entirely confident of letting Nadeko stay at the shrine which implies she had a plan to keep the town safe and the shrine stable.

>>156274870
Snake was worse than Math. Math didn't have the personality to acquire an oddity whereas Nadeko's issues gave rise to a snake affinity.

I don't think she's actually fixing her mistakes however. I think Kaiki's fix of "just focus on something else." to keep her from reverting was just really solid advice for her to follow since she had a goal she wanted to throw herself in to.

>cuckgogahara

>>156275015
I thought that was more Nadeko's proximity to others with oddities though?