how is a drawing like this achieved? how did the artist drew

>>156219961
It looks like CG to me.

>>156219961
Probably everything except character coloring is done with a computer. The line art would be hand drawn, although possibly rotoscoped given the level of detail.

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>>156219961
Most of these "super realistic" mangas are actually made through tracing.
These artists do not actually have the skill to pull out amazing realism so they trace either photos or 3D models.

>>156220333
>These artists do not actually have the skill
Or time.

>>156220551
The point is most readers are misled to the idea that the artist is some wizard who can produce realistic drawings super fast, readers such as OP for example.

>>156220333
That explains why Gantz and his new manga is so fucking ugly.

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Even more reason why Akira is so fucking fantastic.

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>>156219961
Take a photo and slap a black and white filter over it, then draw in the rest of your scene on top.

And then we have people like Tsutomu Nihei who studied architecture.

>>156219961

Mangakas have this weird obsession with deadlines, this why modern mangas just are traced photos, just because it´s easy.

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>>156220814
B-but it's stylistic.

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http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3vtvdy

Here is Asano Inio's process

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>>156220814
Inu Yashiki looked interesting but after seeing this post I've lost all interest in reading it.

>>156220999
It's garbage. The author is a complete hack.

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I hate that sort of sterile art. Give me unrealistic, emotive art like pic related every time.

>>156220814
>>156220982

Do they breath through their dicks?

>>156220914
>[most working people] have this weird obsession with deadlines
Fixed.

>>156220914
>modern mangas just are traced photos
Oh, please, read more. And stop saying "mangas" and "mangakas."

>>156220635

I've developed bakiholm syndrome as far goes the gantz guy

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>>156220990

>all those times I tried to ink realistic trees or mountains as a kid like in muh japanese mangos
>they were all filtered photos

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>>156221713
It's fine. Photography is art. Manga is art. Why not mix both?

>>156219961
The managaka of Tsugumomo has lots of videos on his channel that show how he makes his stuff:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqqj07WnQqs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAUKymZigxQ

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The majority of anime backgrounds are photos too. I don't see what's the big deal.

>>156221780

I'm not against it, just thinking of the wasted effort by all the tricked kids out there who try and fail to copy the visuals.

>>156219961
>how is a drawing like this achieved?
If you look really closely at the textures it looks like a mix of photo filter and hand drawn.

Look closely at the electronics and you see a really high level of detail. Lots of small details in buttons and even subtle changes in gradients of tone on the shading. The Background is probably a photo with a few tweeks to make it look more like a drawing kinda like
>>156220990
But there are a lot of drawn elements in the background. Look at the pad of paper and a lot of the garbage around the room. They are pretty flat in their shading. They stand out from the rest of the BG. These are all probably drawn because the room photo wasn't as cluttered as the artist wanted. Same goes for the character. Obviously drawn because he shows such a different level of detail compared to the rest of the room. (also he's in a simple enough pose that it would be a waste of time to look up a photo ref. Any half decent artist could draw him sitting from behind like that).

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>>156223083
>If you look really closely at the textures it looks like a mix of photo filter and hand drawn.
Yeah that's very common

>>156223083
I disagree, doesn't looks like photo filter at all. On the other hand there is post probably some 3d modelisation and render work at first, then other details added by hand. Still, this panel looks really fucking good, work was put into it.

>>156220814
Hey now, at least he has a nice ass.

>>156220333
If anything the fact that those 3d mosels are so undetailed shows he's got the skill to back it up and just use it to set properly the scene and scale.

>>156223655
It's a chick.

>>156222382
That's a trace though, not a straight filter

Some wageslave had to sit there and copy all those details by hand

>>156223707
>It's a chick.
Dropped without even picking up

>>156220990
this is a great video, thanks anon

>>156223713
A job for Rustle

>>156224571
delete this

>>156220823
Don't mention Nihei in the same breath as people like Oku or Asano. Yes, Oku and Asano are idiots and incompetent writers - but at least they stick to their own principles as mangaka.

>>156221978
Nihei has to be inspired by something to draw those.

Still, it is a next level of inspiration.

>>156224828
Well, he has a degree in architecture, so there is a completely different background.

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>>156220814
Then scan it below the Nyquist resolution?

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>>156224828
>>156224938
Nihei has been drawing entirely digital since Sidonia, and a fair percentage of that stuff is computer-made.

>>156225196
So what?

>>156225251
So don't credit him for things he hasn't accomplished. It's essentially the same as the Asano pages. His originality and value in design and concept are worthy of praise, but the actual pages are not.

>>156219961

Many ways to do it OP, and from working on art deadlines here and there, and with friends in the industry aswell I can tell you you do whatever you can to speed up the process.

In general a manga artist will use 3D and photos in order to create BGs like this. This isn't to say they don't draw in elements. Alot of the filth around the room is purely drawn but but fridge in the corner/microwave and television are probably 3d objects just rendered/drawn over.

To add, it's not impossible to achieve a drawing like this without such tools, it's just ridiculously complicated process if accuracy is your wish, and you'll be setting up perspective grids, looking up material refs, and messing with lighting for a good day in order to fully achieve. The more you do it the faster you get, but it's still hard.

I always like the quote by Michelangelo, "If you knew how much work went into it, you wouldn't call it genius". Murata and alot of Manga artist put a ridiculous amount of time and effort into their craft. Most good artist do. If you put equal amount of time and effort into the same craft you would be able to achieve their skill, or something of note atleast.

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>>156220990
WHAT HAVE YOU DONE ANON?!

>>156223620
>doesn't looks like photo filter at all. On the other hand there is post probably some 3d modelisation

I mean, there isn't a way for us to know 100% without seeing the artist work on a page. But the reason I suspect Photo ref over 3D modeling is the difference in the level of detail in a lot of the objects in the room.

Looking in the top left corner for example you see a white box on top of the shelf and a microwave underneath. The microwave has crazy levels of detail on it. Everything from the linework on the buttons to the tone looks entirely different than the white box or the boxes around the white box. The boxes look like they were added after the microwave. Now if you're modeling the electronics, it takes seconds more to toss in the shapes for those other boxes, so why not just do that all in one pass? why add the other boxes and clutter later? If it's a photo ref then you have to add the clutter.

Not that it really matters one way or the other. Modeling and photo ref/filter are nearly the same in the hands of a skilled artist.

>>156225504
Are you retarded? Just using digital is cheating now?

>>156219961
He didnt actually draw it. Look below the bubble.

>>156226834
That's why I'm saying it's done with a 3d render for the most part. It just doesn't looks like something you could get out of a photo. Would also make sense that way because most of the lines would have been rendered too, explains how they manage to get so much precision.

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>>156221236

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>>156227142
Are you capable of reading?

Even some of his work in Blame is computer-generated. I love Blame, but that does not change the fact that he did not draw all of it. He's become more and more reliant on computer-generation as his works have proceeded. That is what I despise.

>>156227340
Wait a second. Are you implying that doing CG manga isn't as difficult as drawing?
Just because he already has models doesn't mean he doesn't have to change facial structure in every frame, reposition every character and give them an appropiate pose an dlightning, change the toning of the picture to match the artstyle he is going for etc.

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>>156227619
>Are you implying that doing CG manga isn't as difficult as drawing?
Mhmm. Yeah, yeah, no, yeah. Totally.

>>156227826
You need in account the fact the models needs to be created retard.

If it looks good there is nothing wrong with using them. No rules, just tools.

>>156220990
wtf i hate seinen manga now

>>156228159
Is this how people justify things like Berserk 2016? That it took effort, therefore it must be good?

>>156228159
Also I quoted that post but I don't think the 3d blends very well in Inuyashiki.

>>156228196
No, Berserk 2016 looks like hot garbage. And not just because of the 3d. Could have looked way better if they just traced over the 3d.

I'm defending the use of 3d in itself, but only when it looks good, don't misunderstand.

>>156220990
If Backgrounds are this fucking easy to make, I really can't understand memestars like Kubo and the like not doing it.

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>>156228234
>I'm defending the use of 3d in itself, but only when it looks good, don't misunderstand.
Sure, I'll agree to that. But I've never seen an instance of it looking particularly good. There's always an oblique flaw which betrays my attention - even in scenes which I rather enjoy, such as Satou vs the SAT in Ajin's [poor] adaptation. In that case, one such flaw is the bizarre switch from 8 frames-per-second to 24, or whatever higher number it is, and then back again.

In Asano or Oku's or Hanazawa Kengo's work, there's always a clear misrepresentation of perspective whenever photography is used. Even if/when I ignore that aspect so that I can enjoy the work, it's still distinctly present.

My point, really, is that there hasn't been a good enough example of usage of 3D/CG in anime or manga yet so as to justify its proliferation. Re: Nihei, I simply have a massive vendetta against him for deliberately betraying his audience; I tend to use the computer-generation fact as just a cheap way to effect insult at him.

>>156225196
Shit manga, right?

>>156228436
It's quite simple, it's just because a good use of 3d is when you can't notice it.

>>156228436
The OP panel seems to have some use of 3d but it looks great, what do you think of that?

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>tfw Atsushi Kaneko uses an iPad and free drawing software to make all of this manga and you're still a shit artist with a million excuses

>>156228350
It's probably a combination of deadlines and Kubo not wanting to put in the extra effort of adding backgrounds or having a gofer assistant make them.

>>156228522
That looks like a photo with filters/screen tones added over it.

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>>156228436
> But I've never seen an instance of it looking particularly good.

Go check Yoshikazu's videos process.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAUKymZigxQ
That's what I'm talking about when saying good use of 3d.

>>156220333
actualy it isn't even just tracing

pure tracing would be getting a blank piece fopaper , putting it over teh iage, and drawing with your own hand.

these images don't even do that, they just use sophisticated filters to create teh backgrounds from photos, adjust teh colours and some of teh borders on a computer screen, then draw the characters on top.

>>156228436
The main problem I have with this page is how the lines gets way too small for the second and third panels for the character. It just doesn't feels natural, especially with the thicker ones on the first. The background doesn't looks bad at all on the other end.

>>156228618
Depends. Some redraws parts, others doesn't.

>>156228494
What an effective means of both rejecting the proposal and complimenting your favourite artist(s) at the same time.

>>156228452
I'm probably the least neutral human capable of answering, but yes. Sidonia is a story about a boy who is the reincarnation of the greatest mecha pilot ever and already has the skills; and then it devolves into a intersex, interspecies harem with MISUNDERSTANDINGS.

>>156228662
>What an effective means of both rejecting the proposal

What, is there anything wrong with what I said? You're using examples where it's noticeable. And I'm saying you're just using the bad ones.

>>156225504
>It's essentially the same as the Asano pages.

Totallly false

inio asano just takes a photos of someone's room or whatever and slaps some filters on it

nihei draws on a tablet so he can make adjustments more easily but he still DRAWS it
He can't just go find space ship architecture to take a photo of then put it through soe filters and call it a background

Saying "hurr he doesn't use only pen and paper , he uses a tablet so he does the same thing as asano" is retarded

kill yourself you stupid fucking retard

>>156228586
I've seen it. I'm still very aware that it's flawed - the light doesn't change the color/shading of the two characters on the left. If we're following the 'architecture' of the perspective of the image, those two aren't actually facing the two walking towards them. The balcony on the left onto which light is shining isn't darkened, even though it should be dark. So on, and so forth.

So Sakamoto Shinichi is the best when it comes to actual drawings?

>>156227340
the only parts he won't draw will be the kind of window dressing that is too precise to be done by hand, e.g. fonts

this is not really any different to how manga artists before computers would use print-setting techniques to put in text or say bar codes in a picture

it is totally incomparable to just lfting a background from a photo and not even tracing it or using it as a reference but putting black and white filters on it.

>>156228783
That's not even a problem linked to 3d at all. And my point was that you can't notice that there was some use of 3d.

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>>156219961
It's traced, He looked at reference photo and drew over it.

>>156228783
That's some maximum nitpicking

>>156228788
his layouts are often a very gaudy , not that effective.

each element you could cal wel drawn but how he decides to put them on the page, I don't think is very good

it's like if you told a bunch of artists "draw someone in this exact, sightly awkward position" with a picture of what to reproduce closely sakamoto would be one of the best at doing that

but if you made the instructions more broad and told a bunch of arists "draw a page depicting the following scene" I think other artists would know what angle to choose, what position for the characters, etc. "WHAT" to draw better than shinichi who is mediocre in terms of "WHAT" but pretty good in terms of "HOW"

>>156228586
It took him whole day to make a detailed model of rectangular room. I respect the effort but at the same time: what's the fucking point?

Would it really be harder for him to just draw a goddamn perspective grid and then render it the same way he already did? At least the photos traces bring out certain ammount of detail that is extremely hard and tedious to achieve by hand but he just sat there and did just that except in top of extremely low poly midel.

I mean, I could understand if it was something done by his assistants but it's just fucking redundant.

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>>156229086
Well, take in account he then used it for the whole chapter, it wasn't for one page.

>>156229149
Well, yeah I guess you are right.

>>156220333
>3D
i think that's just gantz

i know others buy reference books specifically made for manga backgrounds
>>156220990
the most interesting thing about this video for me is that the japanese watch foyle's war

And then people shit on Oshimi Shuzo for his shading and shit, at least he's drawing the fucking thing.

>>156227340
>He's become more and more reliant on computer-generation as his works have proceeded. That is what I despise.
I'll never understand this argument. As long as pages continue to look good, there's no issue with the tools used.

If you have a problem with pages turning out low-quality, then your complaint should be centered around the artist's lack of skill with CG tools. You only seem to be complaining that CG tools were used at all.

>>156223213
>Smoking WHILE drawing
Fuck off Oda

But you can literally watch Murata draw this shit from scratch?

>>156232854
Murata doesn't works on the backgrounds.

>>156227257
dropped this shit right after the island arc because of this. glad I never came back to it

>>156232969

It's fixed in the volume.

>>156220758

This was also likely traced, albeit from a photo taken in real life or a collage of buildings assembled by the artist.

In the commercial art industry, be it comics or illustration, tracing of photos or other materials is a common time-saving technique and generally not looked down upon so long as it is not overused or infringes on another artist.

It's not to say the artist is incapable of drawing these things free hand, but that they could not manage it in the time constraints they have to work within.

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>>156228436
>My point, really, is that there hasn't been a good enough example of usage of 3D/CG in anime or manga yet so as to justify its proliferation.

You have to consider the cost too, not just the quality. Let's say the output is merely tolerable in visual quality, the show still might not get made if someone actually would have to draw it by hand. I assume this is especially true for mecha shows where accurately drawing complex mechanical objects with lots of battle scenes would expensive. So I think it's currently used as a cost-saving measure because it's simply not at the point where it's a tool for creative freedom that can be used in high-value productions. As technology progresses it'll also become more useful in movie productions.

>>156229086
Scratch that actually. He's doing just that for some of his panels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqqj07WnQqs

>>156220333
>mangas

>>156231737
>Fuck off Oda
MY GUY

>>156220333
I am genuinely curious how your picture relates to your statement about tracing.

Do you really think anyone short of retarded amateurs actually draws over those crude ass models?

>>156220990
You know he also puts more details and he draws his own characters. See the video where he shows how he works with the photos. And he takes his own pictures.

>>156227340
I don't know if you're still here, but can you post some examples of this "computer generation" stuff you're talking about in Nihei's work? I don't understand what you mean by that.

>>156220632
No they're not, the mangaka aren't claiming shit. They're still creating comics, there's no such rule that doing everything by hand makes you any more of an artist.

>>156220758
>>156233209
It's a single point perspective drawing, it's pretty awesome and obviously require experience and knowledge but in terms of technical skill it's nothing outstanding with the simple perspective it has.

>>156223213
People underestimate how difficult this is to make.

>tracing for backgrounds

no honor

>>156236171
Should artists really be concerned with honor when they are drawing little girls being raped?

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>>156219961

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>>156236272

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>>156236336

>>156235916

I never said it was impossible, I said it was likely that they didn't draw it completely by hand. The perspective wasn't the issue, it was the amount of definition put into the buildings, the stuff near the back is likely just tones to give the impression of rows of windows but even there the variety in the architecture means a lot of stuff would have had to have been done rather painstakingly if it were not simply drawn over a reference or collage.

Again, we're talking about commerical art here. The merit isn't in the effort the artist put in, it's in their timeliness and the presentability of the final piece. There is nothing shameful about it so long as it is not being used to the complete exclusion of technique or blatantly stealing from someone else.

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>>156228581
well Kaneko is a madman t b q h

>>156220990
>>156220333

you realize that you need skill to make this shit, right?

doing a fucking landscape with minimal detail takes a lot of time. Do you think doing a single still image is the same as doing a ongoing comic weekly, monthly or bimonthly?

with you logic, they should keep using ink and paper because that how mangos must be done according to you.

fuck off

One piece is best.

>>156236700
other mangakas dont use this shit but made better manga

>>156221446
Mangas. Mangakas.

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>>156236397

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>>156237311

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>>156237349

>>156219961
That's so obviously CG I thought it was Gantz from the thumbnail

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>>156237424

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>>156237527

>>156229149
What's the name of this manga

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>>156237591

>>156237591
This guy manga about making manga was always fun.

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>>156237647
>>156237603
It was a oneshot at the end of Kamen Rider ZO.

>>156237311
>>156237349
i saw those old artworks posted on /m/, it is pretty fucking great

>>156233239
They did a really great job with the animation for this.

The hell is up with Precure getting so much budget and talents working on the series?

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>>156237723
>>156237686
In case people can't tell it's the guy that made Blazing Transfer Student.

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Was he the last "good" artist?

>>156237311
Was Aoi Honoo fully translated? I can't find it anywhere in english and the google search just gives me the goddamn tv show.

>>156237839
Oda exists, and although his art may not be realistic, it's pretty imaginative, meaningful and subtle if you ask me.

>>156237839
>"good"
His composition was weak. Don't be fooled by his drawing style.

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>>156237785
The moral of the story, is always push yourself to draw better and your normal work will improve.

>>156228586

fucking impressive, that's some real skill. Also he just created a scenario that can be used a shitload of times at different angles without redrawing.

I guess he has most of the school and the exorcist academy made in 3D

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>>156237777
90% of precure is low quality. There a few sakuga fights each season. Some transformation and attack stock footage and the ED are done in CGI. Toei has been refining that for years. They started with it in 2008 or so.

And it's still far from perfect. The EDs are very polished. Some one-off uses, not so much.

>>156237603

Boku no momo

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>>156237839
No.

>>156238195
Yeah, in another video he was shown reusing an already made classroom. The models takes a little bit to be made but when you see how much he uses them it totally pays off. He most probably made a model of the Mayoiga ship too.

>>156236987

check this out >>156228586

Holy shit /a/, you are scared of 3D like you were defender of the flat earth.

At least I hope you draw or make something with your skills and you are not only a "connoisseur" of anime/manga.

>>156238324

fucking impressive, man, blending 3D with 2D to give the illusion of one style is something I love in modern artists.

>>156238217
Oh. Guess I was thinking that because I was always only seeing the super well made parts on sakugabooru or AMV video stuffs.

>>156233209

it's funny to me how wrong you are.

This is very obviously single point perspective.
Out of the many drawings of buildings in Akira, this isn't even the hardest, and there is no set of buildings in the world that look like this. Tracing would actually be *more* work.

>>156235916
Rather than experience and knowledge you need some next level of autism to do something like that by hand.

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>>156220333
>trace
>do not actually have the skill
You have no idea what you're talking about
Guess this is just a consequence of allowing idiots to have a voice

>>156238874
well you're both right and wrong. To do a single picture like that is possible by anyone with art training in perspective and a careful hand.

to do thousands of pages like that- all of them perfect, in a really tight time constraint? Yes. That requires a special kind of japanese autism.

>>156238529
Tracing is not always about saving time from trying to figure out perspective. The details on all those buildings may be repetetive but they are still immaculate and would require hours to be spent on preliminary sketches before inking.

I mean, fuck. Look at the vanishing point for the rooftops of the buildigns that are supposed to be parallel. It may not be immediately apparent but it dos jump all over the fucking place whereas doing it would not be the case if it was done by hand from scratch.

>>156239224
Oh, didn't mean that you don't need experience and knowledge, just that autism is the most important for this kind of drawing that technically isn't THAT hard to do, it's just insanely precise and repetitive.

>>156238874
It's quite amazing to pull something like this in a manga because the whole concept of manga is to produce a lot of pages in a short amount of time. But anyone with some basic drawing skill and enough time on his hands could make a page like this one.

>>156228788
He is a great traditional artist and I think he takes advantage of photoshop more than other mangaka. Like he really knows how to use the different brush and tool adjustment settings to create and organize everything he uses.

>>156232969
Whiny brat

>>156231001
>As long as pages continue to look good, there's no issue with the tools used ... If you have a problem with pages turning out low-quality ...
We're talking about current Nihei. It's innately implied that I'm complaining about the quality, too.

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>>156234545
Actually, I did. I was curious if anyone would pick up on that - the [infamous] box is computer-generated. That's why it's not in the new volume releases. They seem to have lost the original file or whatever, and just didn't care enough to put a new one in.

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>>156239576

>>156228586
>Epic music
>Cat comes in for petting

Cute.

Tbh I am more offender by the concept of assistants doing artist's job.

They can gather references, make 3d models, scan stuff, apply text strips, bring the guy his coffee and ramen and whatthefuckever but the moment the artist lets any of those guys touch the actual art in the final draft is the moment I lose some of respect to him.

Thankfully it is not as prevalent in manga as it is in the western comics where they may slap some famous author's name on the cover and then it turns out that he does neither the inks nor the colors.

>>156221974
he livestream quite a lot also

>>156240055
Virtually every mangaka with assistants has them do stuff to/with the pages, you know. It's not necessarily substantial, but it is the truth - often, it's as simple as having an assistant do a bunch of crosshatching that would take hours for the primary artist to do, thereby wasting the artist's 'talent-hours'. If it were not so, a series like One Piece might be on chapter 150. Asano's works would not exist.

I don't see what's so bad about tracing. Tracing is awesome, especially when Rustle does it

>>156228586
>>156228783
>>156228832
What I can't understand is how manga what uses 3d images are able to sell.
Isn't it supposed to be "approved by /i/ or /ic/" tier to be able to make commercial success?

>>156240653
/ic/ is one of the stupidest boards on 4chan, don't listen to them.

>>156240653
Japs have shit taste

>>156240653
>listening to /ic/

never ever.

>>156239923
I thought that might be what you were implying, but that box just looks like a scratchy ruler drawing to me, just like a lot of Nihei's work during Blame. And the perspective on it seems too wonky to be a 3D model or whatever. I'm not convinced that's CG.

Do you have any examples from his modern work?

>>156240653

>4chan in charge of professional standards

please, stop.

>>156240730
>>156240827
>>156240868
>>156240986

Makes me wonder what they would say if I made an thread about manga artists or pixiv successful hentai artist's drawing quality.
I expect to see "See that proportions! Why the fuck those guys is able to make money with this shit!?" or something like that.

>>156239923
What the fuck are you on about? Nihei is an architecture student, pretty much his only real skill during the creation of blame was his ability to draw boxes in perspective, and you think he was that shit he needed a computer to make such a simple cuboid? The perspective on the box is all wonky, a sign of a hand drawn element.

The real reason its different is Nihei hates how messy and overly inky his art used to be.

>>156239576
You don't get it, it's a deconstruction.

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>>156240879
I'd be astounded if this wasn't.

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>>156237839
Maybe if you've read as little manga as you have.

>>156239923
Blame was printed in '98. Nihei is an old man, he can't into computers.

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>>156241237

>>156241185
I think you're too easily conflating 'made using photoshop' and the photograph manipulation atrocities that are posted elsewhere in this thread. There are only a handful of manga artists left that don't make use of PS.

>>156241095

I am not an /ic/ regular but like most board in 4chan they want to talk about the purity of the art/skill/trade but they never try something else aside from hobby tier stuff.

It's the difference between programming a "Hello World" program in a hipster/academia tier programming language in your basement and working for google.

Constraining yourself with what is the "only right way" to do it, it will harm your progress in your art/skill/trade.

tl;dr: fuck those faggots

>>156228586

MOTHERFUCKER, JUST MAKE PORN ALREADY!!!!1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_cWLxtcsNU

>>156241319
I actually make my drawing by adjusting and transforming 3d custom girls models to pmx models for MMD.
Also I download a lot of 3d models.
I use then to compose the base to my drawings.

It's good to hear that.

>>156241476

you are just doing something similar like using a wood mannequin for poses.

Use whatever works for you and makes you improve.

>>156241237
The box chapter was printed in 2003.

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>>156241095
/ic/ is like Belgium's health minister.

You might call yourself an expert all you want, but that doesn't means jack shit if there aren't good results. You wouldn't take health advice from a morbidly obese person.

Just tell them "Post your work" to give value to their art advice. Watch them squirm like worms, getting defensive and avoiding the issue.

Never trust advice from an Anonymous source.

>>156241595
Nihei couldn't even model a robot in 2009 and he had never used that sort of software before.

And you are severely overestimating the abilities of the home computer in 2003.

>>156220990
>when narrator says Dead Demon's DeDeDeDe Destruction

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Nothing wrong with using technology to your advantage.

>>156241929
I'd like a better explanation of the box, then. And Nihei himself didn't need to know how to do it: it could just as easily have been an assistant who was trained in the technology.

>>156242151
You really think it's beyond the technical capability of an artist like Nihei to draw a box? A BOX? He grabbed a ruler you tard.

He removed it because it implied that the entire world was digital, which wasn't the impression he was trying to convey.

>>156242151
Why're you so focused on the box? It's not even the only thing changed on that page.

>>156240433
Have you actually seen crosshatching in One Piece? That kind of crosshatching would take literally 20 fucking minutes per page. Maybe even less for some of those pages.

Meanwhile, Miura is probably the most infamous of the artists who use extensive crosshatching instead of just slapping on the screentones and it is a well known fact that he worked without assistants god only knows how many years.

>>156242151
Clearly this man needs a fucking computer to draw a box
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhUYX4XlIKM

>>156242504
Crosshatching isn't the point. Do you know that Oda literally only draws the stuff that "moves", for One Piece? *Everything* else is his assistants.

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We /ic/ now?
First, manga=/=concept art. Comics need some sort of compromise between quality and quantity, it's not like, speaking of OP's picture, Murata couldn't draw a shitty room with some furniture, he just decided it wasn't worth spending 3 days just for a panel.

Also depends a lot on the type of work you are making, speaking again of OPM the focus are the characters and the action and Murata does them well. The background is has nothing special in his work, it just serves as theatre for the characters' action, that's why it just has to look ok.

>>156241767
/ic/ is a shit board full of idiots, newfags and /pol/tards. Only 10% of the anons posting there actually care about their art and about improving

>>156241095
I've never seen a board that rides on the Dunning-Kruger as fucking hard as /ic/ does.

Between 60% and 90% of it is made of "aspiring" late bloomers who get high on motivational guides and quick initial progress and then lash out on anything that does not opine their naive perfectionist views. No matter how professional/popular/influential the artist is, KJG is probably the only one that does not get shat on in that place since it's really fucking easy to find flaws in any art if you are are coming in with an intention to do just that.

Basically: read the sticky but avoid that cancerous shithole and it's "opinions" as a plague.

>>156242825
Well, fuck him then. Still giving him credits for the designs since it's probably the strongest point of OP.

>>156243013
Is there a point of /ic/ besides "MUH LOOMIS" and "MUH PERSPECTIVE"

>>156243013
>>156243241
You know, I've never really visited /ic/ for more than a few minutes at a time over the years, but these posts about it kinda make me want to start trolling super-hard about Burne Hogarth and Dynamic Figure Drawing on there. Is that something which the board would deserve?

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>>156241398
He's streaming right now, you know. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8f9snJ-qSk

>>156243241
The sticky is an ultimate resource that provides you with literally all the knowledge you may ever need as an artist. The study threads may be good for the newbies to motivate and critique each other.

Besides that - /ic/ is probably the worst board there is and reading it extensively and participating in it's "discussions" will actually make you a worse artist AND a worse person in a long run.

>>156237935
>>156237785
>>156237723
>>156237647


Anon, please! I fucking need it. I watched the damn show three times already.

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>>156220758
iirc the author for Akira was an architecture student before becoming a mangaka, so this kind of perspective work and technical illustration was already in his wheelhouse. He just got extremely good at it, is all.

Reading Akira you can definitely tell. There are a lot of sequences of "fanservice" for architecture and technical illustration nerds.

>>156220990
>>156221713
>>156221780
I'm actually crying. I've had so much trouble drawing backgrounds that I basically gave up on a lot of projects just because of that.

>>156242971
hey I just read this chapter a few minutes ago. Doro is fucking cool

>>156243391
shit i have to write my master's thesis.

>>156243650
Sorry Anon. I also the feeling of wanting to invest everything in the craft, only to find out later that it's really done by remixing and editing.

>>156220990
>He takes the photos himself
>Has a shitload of photos of different places on different angles to use for different situations
Reading the thread initially I thought I was gonna see a hack using google images, but this is really cool.

>>156219961
>take picture
>if skillful draw over it
>if not just photoshop filter it

I actually prefer full drawn stuff now even if "low quality". It fits more at the very least.

>>156228732
>kill yourself you stupid fucking retard
I kind of hope he did.

>>156219961
They use a combination of tracing real life photos and 3D models.

>>156233209
>>156236514
>This was also likely traced
lolno Otomo is a professional drafter.

>>156243608
This. Akira is modern architecture porn.

So mangaka should study architecture?

>>156244132
Just slave drive some assistants

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>>156243952
It's alright, I feel relieved really. Doing manga now seems more achievable, it's just that I had this really naive concept and idea of how manga is made. I thought that you have to draw literally everything, I even had trouble getting over the idea that using reference is ok too, I felt like shit because i thought that using reference is for untalented people but turns out that's not the case and it saved me a lot of time. Like i said, it's a very naive mindset, but i feel very, very happy to have been shown a different perspective on how these things should be done, so thank you anon.

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The problem with using real life photos and 3D is that it's restricted by real life. That's why series like Gantz, Punpun and Tsugumomo are so limited in the scope of their imagination.

Manga is fantasy, able to portray anything you can think of. Artists who do every by hand have restrictions. They can draw whatever they want. They can distort perspective however they want. Their page compositions are superior, because it uses their mind's eye. I've read hundreds of manga series and I can always instantly spot 3D or photo elements because they stick out like a sore thumb. It's a valid technique, but many mangaka are heavily reliant on it and are unable to create manga without it. They are inferior stock and will never match up to the true masters of the genre.

>>156227257
is that traced?

>>156244622
That's bullshit. In the past they bought books with pre-dawn backgrounds.

There is no mind eye magic when the work is done by several people. You know that 3D software let's you distort perspective right?

When you think that they aren't using 3D or photos its because they know how to use them skillfully. Like in movies, you only notice 3D when it's bad.

>>156244910
>In the past they bought books with pre-dawn backgrounds.
No.
>You know that 3D software let's you distort perspective right?
Which is restricted by parameters. You can only distort on a numerical basis. Human imagination is not restricted by programming logic. It's like digital lettering vs hand lettering. Can you distort digital lettering? Sure. But it can never truly replicate hand lettering and you can always tell the difference if you have a keen eye.
>When you think that they aren't using 3D or photos its because they know how to use them skillfully.
I can always tell when it's 3D or photo traced. Prove me wrong.

>>156244091
I cannot be made to perish.

>>156244910
Or it's because they aren't using 3D or photos which is also possible.

>>156244622
Jesus fucking Christ. Why do people have so much problem grasping the concept of being able to do something and not doing it when it is not fucking needed?

The goddamn OPpic is Murata using either or both 3d and phototracing. Is a goddamn Murata now an "inferior stock that will never match up to true masters"?

>>156245268
>Jesus fucking Christ. Why do people have so much problem grasping the concept of being able to do something and not doing it when it is not fucking needed?
You god damn illiterate fuck. Read the damn post.
>It's a valid technique, but many mangaka are heavily reliant on it and are unable to create manga without it.

>The goddamn OPpic is Murata using either or both 3d and phototracing. Is a goddamn Murata now an "inferior stock that will never match up to true masters"?
Murata is a pleb tier mangaka, you dirty casual.

>This entire thread
>I'm not capable of doing it so they must be "cheating" REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Jesus christ.

>>156245072
Are you stupid? Artists have always used books for backgrounds. They sell them everywhere in Japan.

>>156245603
At least they are not me that thinks that it's meaningless to try when I didn't start as a kid and because of that I will never be truly good at anything

>>156220999
The story isn't good.
There is no substance
Up until around ch 70 I thought he was still world building, but he wasnt.
After I realized that I thought "this is it?"
Things happen just to happen....
I'm having trouble explaining what I mean.
I didn't care for Ganz's story either.
Maybe I just don't like the mangaka.

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>>156228452
No, THIS is a shit manga.

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>>156244622
Unless you have an example of Tsugumomo using photos for backgrounds, do not lump it in with the rest of that crap. No other series has such an open process >>156228586 >>156233414 >>156241398 >>156243391

The final arc of Gantz was a disaster in terms of art, he used real pictures in order to create the backgrounds of the giant civilization, so most of the time the proportions of the buildings made no sense at all, he also made a mess with the monsters, there is an entire battle against shitty CG bone monsters.

>>156245947
That battle was so shitty I didn't understand what the fuck was going on
Best girl dies there too right?
Fuck Gantz

>>156244622
> 3d
> restricted by real life

You're shitposting right? You can't that retarded.

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>>156246069
The alien battle itself was shitty but actually exploring and boarding the alien colony was great

>>156243241
im an artist and i can tell everyone who posts on /ic/ are attention whoring their art and shilling their blogs and gets defensive and screams for mods when people critique them

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Working slowly but with high quality, or consistently with less detail? Which do you like more?

>>156246353
Consistent

>>156246353
Depends on the story really. Oyasumi punpun relies heavily on the detail to tell the story. If it was less detailed it would be a really crappy manga.

>>156246353
>Which do you like more?
Great and imaginative style.

>>156246472
>it would be a really crappy manga.
"would"

>>156246353
Middle ground. No need to go as far as Miura.

>>156246353
Man . Fuck crosshatching. It's an art equivalent of doing wheelies in front of other artists. It's cool and takes some skill but artists will be the only ones to appreciate it anyways.

Hell, chances are, we could have seen the end of Berserk by now if Miura never chose a rendering technique that takes literal months as opposed to days.

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>>156246854
Sure is nice to look at though.

>>156240510
You won't keep getting away with this

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>>156246353
Why not fast AND detailed? I mean, THIS was a weekly series.

>>156240510
>>156247772
Does he really trace? I've seen his drawing process and it didn't look like he ever needed to.

>>156247906
It's been proven he traced over actual CP

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>falling for the background meme in 2017

>People thinking it's as easy as using filters on photos
>When a fuckload of manga actually look like shit because they overdo it.

>>156248466
People think it's easy-er. And they're right.

>>156248562
How did you forget the word "easier"

>>156248562
"easier". No, it's a different process. One which gives results. You'd be a fool to diss Vermeer for using the tools he used for his paintings.

>>156248613
>the point
>your head
I didn't.

>>156229231
>i think that's just gantz
I'm fairly certain Yoshikazu (Tsugumomo) uses 3D art assets for background as well.

>>156227257

Wasn't this during a period of Japanese Cold and not the usual sheer laziness?

>>156222382

It's fine to take images especially if the locations referenced in the anime are real. Just got to match the anime's palette and tones, which still takes work. I'd prefer them to get better at 3D modelling backgrounds as well so that cars etc are not so jarring and backgrounds are not devoid of people for mysterious reasons. Filters over photos are just the first step I guess (and it's been going on for decades).

>>156250057
Explain the turkey then.

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>>156248396
They just lack taste.