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Is Matoi Ryuko a well written character?

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Is Matoi Ryuko a well written character?
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>>156157526
I do not know.
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>>156157526
Do we really need one of these threads every day?
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No. Satsuki was the closest to a well written character
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>>156157602
Isn't she cute and well written enough to deserve it?
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>>156157602
Yes, just like we need Eva threads and Shinka threads every day
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>>156157766
Satsuki was the polar opposite of Ryuko in many ways, also well written and with a compelling arc.
But I'd say she was less relatable and realistic overall.
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>>156157595
What confuses you my dear?
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>>156157526
No
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>>156158739
Why not?
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>>156157526
Her tits are.
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STANDING
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>>156157526
Here's a challenge for you, name me ONE anime character that has complex writing, not manga, anime.

I seriously can't think of any character that has a complex character that is portrait within his writing.
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>>156159380
Her butt is better.
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>>156159758
Darker than Black?
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>>156159758
Define complex writing.
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>>156159758
Gerd from Blassreiter
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>>156159758
Char Aznable.
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>>156159857
I would define complex writing as expression of a characters mistakes, flaws, ambitions, goals, dreams, general characteristics etc. in form of dia- and monologue.

Something like tyler durden, walter white or even the most basic example, the dark knight version of the joker.

Something like this has never been done, you could point out oyasumi pun pun as great writing or generic stuff like 20thCB or monster, but anime has never had this kind of deep character writing. All I see today is sterotype after stereotype.

Oh and I should probably add that is can't be an adaptation, because those not original perse.
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>>156157526
I'd like to rough-fuck her against a wall.
That's close-enough for me
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>>156160234
>I would define complex writing as expression of a characters mistakes, flaws, ambitions, goals, dreams, general characteristics etc. in form of dia- and monologue.
But even Ryuko has all of those, though I don't know what dia- means.
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>>156160364
The - means take out the mono from monologue and add dia their instead
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>>156160282
>on her toes
>thigh cum drip
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>>156160429
Ah okay.
But yes those characteristics are common, maybe since you brought up WW you mean that anime doesn't have many morally grey antiheroes like Tony Sopranos and such?
In which case I would agree.
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>>156159758
paranoia agent
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>>156160364
I meant dialogue and monologue, bascially what they say has to reflect who they are.

Ryuko is just a brat that has no respect for absolutely no one, but why?
>Because she hates her father?
No, because she fights for him even tho she hates him.
>Why does she do that? Just because it's her father?
We never get to know.

Also, how come she never really shows empathy towards anybody but still doesn't come across as selfish? How does she feel about the things that happen to her ? We never get to know.

>>156160610
Okay this I can agree with.
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>>156159380
>>156159762

http://www.strawpoll.me/563819
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>>156160676
>Ryuko is just a brat that has no respect for absolutely no one, but why?
She had to put up an aggressive persona to survive after being abandoned. The slideshow showed her alone and mocked as a kid before she became a delinquent.
>>Because she hates her father?
>No, because she fights for him even tho she hates him.
She obviously resents him and that's another cause of her dislike for authority, but she doesn't really hate him.
>>Why does she do that? Just because it's her father?
She started fighting because she wanted to know more about him, she says so herself
>Also, how come she never really shows empathy towards anybody but still doesn't come across as selfish?
Mh? She shows emphaty towards Senketsu and Mako all the time. But being selfish IS one of her biggest flaws, and it's brought up several times in the show, episodes 13, 17 and 22 especially.
>How does she feel about the things that happen to her ?
Again she talks about how she feels constantly. Dialogue with Mako in ep 8, dialogue with Senketsu in ep 7, etc.
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>>156160676
Well for one I would say that her personality progresses past the purely stubborn and stand-offish girl we see at the beginning of the show, two it's not hard to see why she shows up at the academy with that attitude. Doesn't know her mother and has a strained relationship with a father who she finds dead after he asks her to visit her, as is detailed within the show.
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>>156161212
>>156161288
What you guys listed are moments dedicated to showing the stereotype that she represents. What I'm trying to say tho is why isn't any of this represented within her manner of speach or certain characteristics or quirks she has.

Just think about videogames, how you can easily tell mgs dialogue from dark souls dialogue. Now, while video games mostly have very poor writing, what they nail is character.

Also implications are not complex writing, let's just take something easy like guts from berserk for example.
Instead of showing how guts got raped as a boy over and over again with cheap flashbacks, guts tells everybody who touches him to back off. Berserk is actually a great example for this, every character has a certain speach to them, especially if you understand a little bit of japanese and try to read it.

Character development also isn't complex writing, it's just writing. Every character in every story ever told develops, it's a necessity of writing a story.

When Ryuko says stuff that she thinks, it comes across as rather generic or specifically designed to make the viewer think the exact way. It feels like every bratty anime character every could speak the exact same words.
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>>156161737
>What you guys listed are moments dedicated to showing the stereotype that she represents
No, she's a fully realized tridimensional character. Unless you can name another sukeban characters with the same characteristics.
>What I'm trying to say tho is why isn't any of this represented within her manner of speach or certain characteristics or quirks she has.
But it is. The way she's antagonistic with most people, especially ones in position of power, but sweet, caring, girly while interacting with Mako and Senketsu is exactly that.
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>>156161130
>saving that poll
Kek
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>>156162110
I know that you won't agree with me when I say this but just look at the female cast of black lagoon.

You have almost nothing but sukeban characters but all have different characteristics and manners of speach

Especially when you compare revy with ryuko you can understand what I mean. It's been a little since I saw the show but from what I can remember, there was a fantastic scene where rock was having dinner with revy and she flipped her shit because rock hit a nerve. THIS is exactly what I mean bei complex character.

Also, revy speaks a certain way, while this gets a little oscured when you watch the dub, you still get the character. She would never not use swearwords, she would never act ladylike even though she basically dressed like a slut and so on.

Ruyko is a sukeban character with a necessary tradegy that gives the illusion of depth even thogh it's just a premise to kick of the events of the show, revy is a more complex character BECAUSE we have a clue what she's like without having to be told everything she's been through, we can tell from her manner of speach and behaviour alone.
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>>156162680
I don't really get what you're saying anymore.
It started with question about the character's motivations with >>156160676 that I provided, but now you're saying that the motivations I explained are not relevant to the characterization, despite showing in her behaviour towards other characters and in the way she approaches obstacles, and her goal in the series being overcoming those issues?
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>>156157526
Welp, technically she wouldn't, but the fact that she's a girl instead of a boy just lets her earn some points. But yeah, she's almost one of the better you could find. Btw, for satsuki fags she's such a generic character as well, so don't even try on defending her
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>>156159758
Ikari Shinji
Katsuragi Misato
Iwakura Lain
>name one
my bad, I got caught up
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>it's been 4 (four) years
Has it been long enough to tell if klk managed to save anime?
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Was this shot necessary
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>>156157526
of course not
the show was one big fat meme and they made no attempt at making well written characters
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>>156165069
>Ikari Jinji
I dunno if that can be defined as complex, since it's too monotonous it is very easy to know what is he going to do next just based on his personality, it may be one of the unique and memorable ones, but i wouldn't define it as complex.
Btw i don't know a complex example either so don't ask me one lel
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>>156165339
>of course not
Why?
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>>156159515
ON THE EDGE
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>>156159758
>this entire comment
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>>156165355
"Complex" is overrated.
Shinji is a well made and believable depiction of a boy with abandonment and self esteem issues. He doesn't have to be the most complicated person on earth, he's just a teenager.
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>>156165282
Yes... yes it was
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>>156165282
Yes
The show purposely makes nudity stand out at the beginning when Ryuko is ashamed of her naked body, before slowly phasing it out over the course of the series, leading to the completely non sexualized naked hug in the ending.
Deconstruction of fan service.
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>>156165355
Complex doesn't necessarily have to mean unpredictable. I would say the biggest indicator of a complex fictional character is asking yourself, "Could you picture this character in real life? Is each decision they made and action they did reached by a thought process that is believable in real life?" You could have complex smart characters that are wildly unpredictable and complex stupid characters that can be read like a book as long as their beliefs, actions, etc are as subtly nuanced as real smart people and real dumb people.
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>>156159758
Chamber from Gargantia.
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>>156165339
I honestly think that's a point that defines a good anime. Like, kill la kill is intended to be generic, at the same time it makes fun of generalism wich causes the anime to laugh at itself and a lot of complex explanation. What i'm trying to say is that if you compare an anime structure like the one in kill la kill with another one of an anime like, say, rakudai kishi no cavalry or gakusen toshi asterisk or even SAO (cuz that is actually the shit anime became now) then kill la kill is at least an 8.5/10 goldie, and it's good to see some good stuff like that in the actual anime crisis.
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>>156157526
Good characterization, but shitty development.
She's the complete opposite of Simon.
I prefer good characterization over good development if I had to have one or the other, so I say yes.
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what is a well written character? can you give some examples?
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>>156166032
read the thread baka
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>>156165669
Good analysis
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>>156166021
>shitty development
Why? Just because she isn't textbook Hero's Journey like Simon?
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>>156165669
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>>156165669
>all the women on top
>men hidden behind and below

Ya nah it's still trying to show off the hot naked women, even if the situation isn't explicitly sexual
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>>156166386
or maybe it's because they're the main characters of the show
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>>156165676
Yeah ur right. Btw i would say that i can indeed answer those questions, but i don't want to get too believed here, since i'm an ignorant in multiple things, so i'll say that i agree with you. Anyways, it doesn't mean that characters like jinji are abundant, so even if we look at the thousands of animes out there, i am completely sure that there can't be named more than a hundred.
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>>156166032
If you can think of the character as full fledged, believable individual instead of a collection of plot devices and lazy archetypes, it's good.
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>>156157526
Nah, she's kind of a cunt. Never gets a proper character development. Despite being the most overpowered person in the show she doesn't really do anything and her friends practically have to beg her stop the villain at the end. The worst part of it is that we're supposed feel sympathy for her because she wants to be loved but she doesn't put any effort to make people love her. She has no motivation after episode 12 and even her initial motive turns out to be really vague and meaningless.

Why didn't they stick to a simple motive of "I want to find out who killed my dad" is beyond me. It's only in her fucking theme song but she finds out who did it halfway through and then it's revealed that she never even wanted to find the killer, she just wanted to learn more about her dad for some reason.

Kill la Kill is a fucking mess in the story and characters department and let's be honest you've only watched it because you wanted to see fights and sexy uniforms.
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>>156157602
KLK threads are kind of nice and comfy. Versus the daily EVA thread.
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>>156159758

Samurai Flamenco
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>>156168806
>flawed character = badly written character
Ah, the oldest pleb detector in the book!
Ryuko's lack of ambition, direction and her tendency to only be driven by her emotions and short term goals ARE her fundamental character traits, that she needs to overcome to grow and complete her arc, and put her in conflict with Satsuki, who is the opposite: single mindedly driven by a sole purpose, calculating, ruthless, see people as tools.
Ryuko is morals without structure, Satsuki is structure without morals.
Alone both mindsets are doomed to failure, but eventually coming together and accepting each other philosophies they finally grow as individuals.
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>>156168806
>she just wanted to learn more about her dad for some reason.
Probably because he fucked off early in her life, turned back up and died after leaving her a sweet sword. I also don't remember her not wanting to find his killer, either. When does she say she never wanted to?
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