>There's literally only 6 story episodes (one of them

>>156043175
The filler is the best part and the most comfy. It honestly needed another season's worth of filler if you ask me.

>cliffhanger
What's cliffhanger about it? Spike dies after killing Vicious, life goes on. It's only a cliffhanger if you think there's a good chance Spike didn't die, which I guess is possible if you say that the star falling was Vicious' star, but Spike was deathflagging hard.

How are they filler when they're showing the characters interacting and growing with each other?
Just because they aren't specifically mentioned in the finale doesn't mean that they're not important.

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>>156043175
the majority of the filler episodes were pretty solid IMO, I can't say that I didn't enjoy watching them. Bebop's worst sin was that it was too short.

>>156043497

I forgot to add how the majority of the time characters don't fucking interact with each other. Really, their interpersonal relationships sucked, I don't remember Jet or Spike ever calling Faye by her name, characters mostly ignored each other unless they were all chasing the same dude

>>156043642
That's because Faye was an interloper and nobody really wanted her around.

>>156043702

So why didn't they kick her from the bebop? Hell she wasn't even paying at first

>>156043865
Because they are Beta

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>animes

Its one of the very few shows that did episodic anime right. The only other ones I can think of are Mononoke and Mushishi.

>>156043497
You're responding to an autist sperging out about a show not having a simple, clearly-defined and delineated story. Concepts like character development are beyond him.

>>156045624
Space Dandy?

>>156043960
That's actually right, just people with that level of understanding of anime would like such crap

>>156045624
>>156045821
GITS:SAC

>>156043175
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkXFBPGZpTM

The "filler" is the whole point of the show. You're seeing the Bebop crew react to the tragic situations others find themselves in, which slowly gives more insight into the tragic pasts of the crew themselves.

>>156045819
This, op is probably a structuralist fag

>>156043175
I'm gonna be real--the story of Cowboy Bebop fucking sucks. All those story episodes are generic as fuck with the only saving grace being the animation.

What makes Bebop great is the characters, all of the best episodes are filler episodes. It's my favorite anime and I was bored as fuck during the "story" bits.

>>156045819

Holy shit, I love Bebop but this is just straight up shilling. There's almost 0 character development, tell me how the fuck did Ed, Jet and Faye ever get developed? They all start the series with a very defined personality and end up the series with the same personality. Jet NEVER changes his attitude towards anything, Faye is a bit Tsundere on some episodes but then goes back to being a cold bitch in the rest and Ed has absolutely 0 changes.

Spike is not very different either, they really don't change throughout the series.

Bebop had a great soundtrack, animation, fun "monster of the week" episode and great setting, character design and personality was top notch, but it didn't have character development.

>>156046449
>Holy shit, I love Bebop but this is just straight up shilling.

Yeah, you got me. Sunrise is paying me to hang around /a/ and promote a nearly 20 year old series.

>>156046089
>17:40
Nobody's got time for that.

>>156046576
Ok fuckface, don't take everything so literally, I'm just trying to say you're trying to be a fanboy about it. Bebop strong suit was not character development

>>156046449
Characters can be static you know, and that in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing

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>>156046449
development in the sense that they were explained, not changed.
You realized why they were, and why they would never change>>156046089

>>156046851
>>156046089
^^^^^^^^hack this reply lmao

>>156046719
>>156046851
refer here

>>156046449
Not everybody needs character development asshat. Just because a character changes doesn't all of a sudden make that character good. The very fact that in a lot of ways some of them don't change is the point in this anime. They can't change and their pasts are never going to go away. That's exactly why Spike fucking goes to die despite Fei trying to stop him.

>>156043398
>It honestly needed another season's worth of filler if you ask me.

This. It could have easily had another season's worth just slotted in the middle, kind of like how they handled the movie. I can see the value in the ending as is but they definitely weren't running out of ideas or anything like that.

>>156043175
You're not allowed to criticize bebop because the 90s kids who are now approaching 30 are the overwhelming majority of vocal fans online and they feel serious nostalgia for the series.

In reality the show is a 6 by modern standards and deeply overrated at this point. Its main flaw is that it's boring.

>>156047154
>Its main flaw is that it's boring.
>I have no attention span and need to be stimulated 100% of the time

>>156043175
You're fucking retarded and so is this whole stupid ass hatred towards "filler" that /a/ has held for so long.

>>156047312
What I mean is it doesn't have much going on when it comes to the story or the characters. Everything is extremely simplified and it never catches the viewer off guard. It has the narrative complexity of your average episode of spongebob.

Bebop is excellent and it's ridiculously contrarian to deny it

>Episodic anime
>filler

Bait.

>>156043175
Overrated burger bullshit.

>>156047544
Dubs of truth

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/a/ prefers moe otakushit, don't expect critical thought here

>>156047426
>simple = boring

Yes, it's very poor, all style and little substance.
Some people liked the style, and it aired while they were kids and didn't know better, so they like it. That's it really.

>>156047664
Yes, simple, shallow, stories are boring.

>>156043175
>cliffhanger
I hate this Spike might've lived schlock, and it's terrible that Watanabe went along with it. It's far more complete and sensible for him to have died.

>>156043175
>animes
and you expect me to take your post seriously?

>>156047154
I don't really feel nostalgia for the series, first time I watched it I only went through the "story" episodes and skipped everything else. Thought it was pretty overrated. Years later I finally sat through the whole thing and loved it. I'm rewatching it on blu-ray now and its still an enjoyable watch.

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So what causes Cowboy Bebop to be waved away as "no substance"?
I think you're all a bunch of contrarian faggots who have heard cliche rules of narrative such as "style over substance" and "show don't tell" and decided that you are now capable of meaningful criticism, which you aren't.

>>156048048
If Watanabe says he may be alive, then he probably is. If he was as badly injured as people says he was, he wouldn't of been able to stumble down those stairs the way he did. He would of collapsed on the spot so it's more than likely he only passed out from the injuries.

I don't understand this delusional thought people have, saying Spike HAS to be dead to the point they act like the creators own words don't matter. Don't be a fucking idiot and accept the ending was made to be ambiguous .

>>156046035
SAC is not good

You don't like episodic formats with an overarching plot that only sporadically appears as the cast go about their dangerous, adventurous, comedic lives?

>>156048297
GITS in general is not good. Nothing but boring philosophical garbage.

>>156048421
the first film was great and didn't drag on too long

>>156048277
It's more complete and sensible because that's how everything was being built up. The star prophecy, the lose of all purpose, the dual destiny, the farewell, the walk into the sun and the ending card. What fucking point is there to have Spike still living?

>>156046089
>muh muchur anime

>plotfags
You'll never get it.

>>156048443
>What fucking point is there to have Spike still living?
Future adventures.

>>156048443
>What fucking point is there to have Spike still living?
you're starting to understand, Watanabe followed a pretty non-standard design. To Spike, it doesn't matter at all if he is dead or alive. You see this thrown around in the film during his near death experience, he becomes lucid from his waking dream and realizes he was still scared of death.

>>156043175
its pretty fucking boring yeah. people just jerk off to the animation

>>156048482
Why? His girl is dead. He just made a big suicidal scene of blowing up the syndicate tower. There's nothing sensible left for him but to die.

>>156043175
exactly. like who even old people liestens to honking horn jazz nowadays?

>>156048584
Cowboy Bebop is good but Jazz is trash

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>>156043175
>Literal filler.
It's episodic, moron.
Filler is when an anime has to make up episodes so the manga can get ahead.

>>156048421

This guy gets it

>>156043175
>Still considered one of the best animes ever made

Said no one ever

>>156047154
>the show is a 6 by modern standards
Are you fucking kidding? You can count the number of decent shows in one hand every season. And even then most times their production values are laughable. There's nothing mediocre about it. Don't be intellectually dishonest.

>>156048625
but it doesn't contribute to the gang story??? I don't understand

>>156043175
It's the journey not the destination anon.

>>156047154
>In reality the show is a 6 by modern standards and deeply overrated at this point.

I agree for the most part, but why "modern standards"? It wasn't good back then either.

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>>156048655
use reddt spacing one more time and I'll send you six feet under

>>156048655

Said lots of people you literal nigger. Mostly outside of Japan because culture.

>>156048665
It doesn't need to. Cowboy Bebop isn't all about the gang story. It's about Spike and his friends during the time they were all together.

>>156043175
>animes

>>>/v/

>>156048748
but that's worthless fanservice, I don't like it!
6/10 at most

>>156048657
>it's not a 6 because I say it's not
All style and no substance cannot get anything higher than a 6, sorry.

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>weeaboos will defend this

Typical genkishit character that you'd see in any moe anime, or even MLP.

Japs are always pandering to people who are mentally 6.

>>156048655
I think it is one of the best anime ever made and I have good taste. Not everybody subscribes to hive minds.

>>156048151
Are you a fucking retard? Why would you watch a show, then skip over 3/4ths of it?

>>156048805
see
>>156048207

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>>156048780
>but that's worthless fanservice
Why do you argue when you don't even know what it is that makes you angry?

>>156048655
You may not like it but saying it's not considered one of the best animes of all time is like saying Michael Phelps doesn't have an olympic gold record

>>156048855
Because I was a dumb 15 year old. Believe me I don't get why I did it either. I think I wanted to watch it quickly just to say that I did.

>>156048855
Because 3/4 of it is trash. I'd skip Jupiter Jazz as well. Only BotFA and The Real Folk Blues 1&2 are worth watching.

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>animes

>>156049109
explain your reason without the words style or substance

>>156049109
Yeah I agree, actually you should only watch the first and last episode of every anime that's really the only way to enjoy things all the rest is filler trash in fact just skip watching anime and kill yourself, this life between is nothing but useless filler.

There's even less "main plot" related episodes arent there?

>Ballad of Fallen Angels
>Jupiter Jazz
>Real Folk Blues

I guess thats five if you count that the later two are two parters

>>156049109
Ultimately I realized that it was a mistake and that the "filler" episodes only enhanced the plot episodes. Those last few episodes only have any impact if you spent all the time getting to know and becoming attached to the characters beforehand.

>>156043175
overrated because of nostalgia, the style of it makes it easy to still like even when you come back to it
most of the episodes were boring
space dandy is the superior show

>>156043175
>being episodic is now considered filler
Kys newfriend

>>156043175

Because it's not one of the best ever, OP. It's entry level garbage, babby's first non-shounenshit """serious""" anime that most of /a/ so when they were young and so have a very warped, nostalgic view of.

I mean it's not a bad show, but everything about it is derivative of Western film and music. If the supposed best anime ever is a 26 episode homage to Western media and culture, that sure says a lot about anime as an """artistic""" medium.

>Needing plot

See this is why people consider Cinema superior it's long ago been accepted by non-plebs that all other elements in cinema are secondary to the spectacle itself.

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>>156043175
>he doesn't like episodic space adventures

>>156048410
Surprisingly I don't. Plot is the bread and butter of a show. If you're going to introduce plot, then don't pretend like it doesn't exist for 80% of the show and get on with expanding the plot you created. That was the problem with CB: it tried to be a plotless comedy show while being a plot-filled serious show at the same time which was quite jarring in the end, honestly. Worst part was that there was very little character development throughout the entire show, during both comedy and serious parts. If you're going to have plot, please develop the characters a bit. To me, something like Space Dandy or Planetes were both a lot more enjoyable than CB, the former being entirely a comedy show while the latter had both comedy and serious plot and actually incorporated them well during its runtime. And Planetes actually had character development as well which was what made it great.

Let me ask you this: were there people that legitimately cried/teared up when Spike died? I didn't feel a thing because the show did a pretty bad job at making me care about his character. In the end, he was just a guy that did stuff.

>>156049220
Where did this meme that a show exist to advance a "main plot" come from?

All a story exist to do is tell a story. How it goes about telling that story is what makes things interesting. Cowboy Bebop is interesting because it looks at it's characters from a more down to Earth perspective.

Take Faye for example. Yes, her "main plot" is that she was frozen and is from far into the past, or whatever, but in real life she would not be living everyday for that fact. People in general don't live every single day towards one singular main plot goal, that is a very particular classical style of storytelling.

Cowboy Bebop instead just says "let's look at these people day to day life," and just like day to day life, at random times they learned more about each others past, more about each other through their interactions, and progress was always made in some way in an episode, even if it isn't one massive build up to a final showdown.

It gives it this reliability. Think about somebody like your father. Chances are you probably don't know all the details or everything about your fathers past, but you still were able to live with him growing up and felt you built this relationship with him.

That is what Cowboy Bebop is, and the sad part is imagine if part of your Dad's past was that he was involved in some shady stuff, and absolved himself from it, and then it came back to haunt him but he could choose to ignore it, and then he prioritized it over you.

That's the real "significance" of the ending. It's not, nor does it try to be, some grand space opera. It's more free jazz than fugue.

>>156049328
>but everything about it is derivative of Western film and music

Name an anime that isn't just derivative stories of past works.

All art is derivative.

>>156049406
Spike's death was pretty sad. I thought it's format was great. Sorry it didn't click with you.

>>156049406
>were there people that legitimately cried/teared up when Spike died?

Yes. Almost everybody that isn't you in fact. That's where the memes come from. Also disagree with everything else you said.

>>156048297
>>156048421
When will people understand that SAC needs to be more like Robocop. More action less dialog that confuses the fuck out of you.

There's nothing wrong with an episodic series, but Cowboy Bebop isn't episodic. It's literally two plot driving episodes -> bunch of filler -> halfway thru they suddenly reintroduce the main plot -> another 8 episodes of filler -> last couple of episodes you finally see some substantial character and story development.

That's not episodic nor is it story-centric, it's basically 'oh shit we're supposed to make 26 episodes not 20 better write some shit up quick'.

It also wouldn't be as bad if the filler was actually memorable. I only remember that one episode with the super AI.

>>156049584
A show is not bad because you are a stupid. The only "bad" part of SAC is the library episode.

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>animes

Too many twelve years old kids here. Of all the shows you could troll with "lolplot" you had to choose Cowboy Bebop...

>>156049626
I remember every single episode.

Also something isn't suddenly not episode if there is something that reoccurs during it. It's still fundamentally episodic. They just all happened to have lives outside of what was going on in the background with the Mafia.

Bepop isnt a story driven show; its 'story' lies with the characters.

>>156043398
>>cliffhanger
>What's cliffhanger about it? Spike dies after killing Vicious, life goes on. It's only a cliffhanger if you think there's a good chance Spike didn't die, which I guess is possible if you say that the star falling was Vicious' star, but Spike was deathflagging hard.

this so much. you can argue all you want about how the falling star was Vicious' but that ruins any kind of cinematic feeling to that final scene. Spike couldn't move on from the past so he died wrapping it up. there is nothing left for him if he came out alive

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>>156048612
>jazz trash
you've either never heard Lupin III music or you're underage with shit taste.
>>156048655
>Said no one ever
Do you live under a rock?
>>156049272
>overrated because of nostalgia
I didn't watch it until I was an adult so speak only for yourself
>most of the episodes were boring
That's a shitty subjective opinion
>space dandy is the superior show
At least now I know you're a kid.
>>156049531
>Spike's death
>Implying he's dead

>>156049626
you're such a thick cunt, you have no idea what is going on but you'll label it filler anyway
Watanabe approached the episodes as separate entities, as though they were separate films. Each contains itself. You dislike it because you are trapped in your own preconceptions of the medium.

>>156049631
>not understanding cryptic philosophical mumbo jumbo makes you stupid

>>156049714
you're overthinking it and this was never Watanabe's intention.

>>156049719
>Implying he's dead
If we're going to keep going with the ambiguous thing, why would anyone WANT him to still be alive? How is it not far more aesthetically pleasing that he dies?

>>156049575
I'm all for connecting with the MC and being sad when he dies but CB just didn't do it for me compared with other shows like Gungrave or Phantom. Probably because those shows had characters who weren't completely flat for the entire show.

>>156049790
What was Watanabe's intention with the foreshadowing of Spike's star falling and then showing the star falling in the last episode?

>>156049790
You're under thinking it and that's a valid interpretation. It makes no difference whether he lives or dies because he was living an endless dream in the first place

Is Bebop the Seinfeld of anime?

>>156049830
that would be Seinfeld: the animation

>>156049719
>Tries to defend an entire genre of music, and the most definitive music of the 20th century, and America's only serious musical style contribution, and does so by citing a second anime soundtrack.

Jazz is great but you don't know shit about jazz.

>>156049523

That's some piss poor reading comprehension m8.

The point I'm making isn't that the show's bad for being derivative. The issue is that it's too derivative; it really lacks originality in its themes and setting. It feels like it's trying really hard to be some kind of new wave faux neo-noir Western film, but it only succeeds in emulating and fails at establishing its own identity. That appears to be the only reason Cowboy Bebop is hailed as a great anime, because it tries its hardest not to be anime. It's sad, really.

>>156049760
There is nothing cryptic about any of the philosophy of Ghost in the Shell. 99% of the implications of the show can be derived by the fucking name of the series.

>>156049805
>why would anyone WANT him to still be alive?
why wouldn't you? Does him being dead please whatever mindcanon philosophical bullshit you have about the story?
>How is it not far more aesthetically pleasing that he dies?
The idea of killing off the main character is a done to death trait that has been Incorporated long before Bebop ever existed. It is repetitive and does nothing but force drama onto whatever story that you're telling. It isn't beautiful or deep. It's just pointless.

>>156049817
>Like Gungrave

I felt worse for Harry than Brandon. I felt worse for 90% of the bosses.

>>156049853
>using another anime example for a genre of music means they know nothing about it

>>156049631
Just because something has dense symbolism themes, talks about dark cyberpunk mind fuck doesn't mean the general hollywood audence will like it.

Not many wants something like Lain, Evangleion.

Only picky critics like things like Ghost in shell to be dense of higher thought themes all the time. And can't relate to mass audience.

>>156049934
>It is repetitive and does nothing but force drama onto whatever story that you're telling.
>If the main character dies at the end of something it's forced drama

God do you people even read the retarded shit you type?

It's like you watch something like Hero and think to yourself "Why would they execute him it would be way better if they just brofisted and went there separate ways!"

>>156049760
It's actually kind of shallow.

>>156049934
Because, like it's already been said in the thread, it is more sensible and complete a thing to happen that he dies. The show was building to it.
>It isn't beautiful or deep. It's just pointless.
How is it better that he lives?

>>156045819
>muh character development
Go read more YAshit

>>156049976
You did absolutely nothing to argue my point but make retarded assumptions, and make up some ridiculous example to make it seem like what you're saying is how I think about the situation.

>>156049972
Considering the massive popularity of Evangelion, you are wrong.

Even in Hollywood you get things like Apocalypse Now, Full Metal Jacket and Requiem for a Dream.

The only truth in your statement is that of "mass audience," but that's a stupid statement to make, because reaching a "mass audience" means the movie is so bland and non offensive that it is not made to really appeal to anyone, but offend no one, so it can gain popularity from marketing. Even most movies do not want to be like that, because the exact shit you said applies AGAINST movies like Inception.

>>156049967
That's the argument, yes. Using anime to show how knowledgeable you are about a genre of music only works if that genre is Jpop.

>>156043175
>animes
kill yourself

>>156050013

You aren't very bright are you.

>You made assumptions

I did no such thing. These are your words.

>It is repetitive and does nothing but force drama onto whatever story that you're telling

You implied that the death of the main character was not important in Hero. There was no resolution for that situation besides the death of the main character, because his death was forced drama. The only other possible outcome could have been that the Emperor told him "okay you are cool, just leave." which, in the context of the story, would make no sense.

You are the one that said it's ridiculous in WHATEVER story it is in. I can go all day and name examples where the story is idiotic if the main character doesn't die and this directly attacks your idiotic notion that the death of main characters is "forced drama."

It's only forced in so far that all drama in a made up story is "forced" upon the one experiencing it, but it's meaningful and important to the story.

Now keep acting intellectually superior because you don't like people dying in fiction.

>>156050074
All it was is just an example. No one expects an entire list or reasons for why something is good especially when it has nothing to do with the main topic. It was a throwaway comment about someone saying something is good and and giving a decent example to show their opinions. That doesn't mean the person has to get assblasted to the point where they feel the need to criticize the person and tell them they aren't knowledgeable about something because of it. That's just childish.

>>156050183
mad
jazz is trash and you don't even know enough about it to defend it without anime soundtracks

>>156050183
>That's just childish.

Where exactly do you think you are?

>>156050228
>using anime soundtracks on a anime board
>criticizing an entire genre of music you don't even listen to and judging others for not only liking it, but claiming they don't know anything about it despite knowing nothing about it yourself
>also shitposting

>>156050140
ppl that disagree with me must be the same person and stoopid!
I'm not the person you were babbling with, you idiot.
Death in fiction is the most contrived plot device imaginable, by the way. Watch a few Western movies (mostly modern, but one can find examples dating fairly far back, at least to the beginning of 'serious' films with a traditional plot structure and longer length), and you'll see that some important character will almost always die and that will cause the protagonist to go harder against the antagonist.

Oh fucking look, it even happens in the damn Epic of Gilgamesh! How damn original, doing it thousands of years later with exactly the same execution in the majority of cases, and with slight variance in most others!
It's a lazy adherence to structure. I cannot take a series seriously if 'somebody dies' is a major plot point (it can happen in the past and be relevant to the plot, and that is fine). It's the DEFINITION of forced drama. Oh my! Death! Can you imagine if somebody given minimal development past the general 'person that is important to a character in some reason' nonsense in YOUR life died?! Please empathize with our terrible characters and terrible writing!
I HATE IT!

Just because it is important, doesn't mean it's a good choice.

>>156050272
Jazz fans always pull this noncard: YOU JUST DONT UNDERSTAND LMAO

>>156050452
He clearly quoted the wrong post; why are you getting so assblasted? His argument wasn't even meant for you, numbnuts.

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>>156050228
>jazz is trash
true fucking pleb
https://youtu.be/kR8HinFaQhk

>>156050555
void of merit, quite painful to watch

>>156050553
It wasn't mean for me, but I disagreed with his point.
>>156050555
That's terrible, sorry!

>>156050604
>>156050609
there's no need to be sorry for who you are

>>156050555
You weren't trying to pass that off as good or something, were you? Literal noise.

>>156046449
The beauty of character development is that it isnt linear or a simple rise-and-fall structure

When Faye is introduced, we the audience know her as a cold and manipulative bitch who uses her appearance to get money Throughout the show Faye is always seen spending or trying to get money Why? Because she has a whole fucking backstory about how her life was saved, and, even without knowing a thing about herself, there was still a person who was there for her.

But that person (from memory) got into money problems, and up until she met Spike and Jet, that was all she was pursuing: money.

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>>156050707
This is like seeing a colourblind person try and convince someone else that there's definitely no number there

comical, and the faintest hint of wondering whether they're joking or genuinely just don't know

>>156051011
Only the musically illiterate or pretentious think jazz is even remotely valid as music. It's trash egowank.

>>156051011
Hey, don't blame me; I listened for a good 2 minutes before passing judgement. All I heard was noise in that time; no distinct melody. Didn't bother with the rest.

The most memorable part of Bebop is the OP, prove me wrong.

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>>156051101

>>156051206
there's nothing to be "blamed" for

>>156051233
Me:
>classically trained pianist with two decades of experience
You:
>dope that listens to animay jazz and might *might* know what a cord progression is

>>156051428
this might be the best thing I've ever read on /a/

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>>156051576
upboat

>>156047154
You are allowed to do anything you want but the arguments against bebop are always a non-argument. "nothing happens, characters don't grow, where is the power of friendship" are not arguments.

When you follow something for years and people keep giving the same shitty reasons why they think something is bad is it your obligation to argue every time?

>>156043175
It's not filler if your show is actually just episodic, anon.

>original anime
>filler

>>156043175
90s sitcom of animes

cowboy bebop is shounen-tier shit

got any news?

>>156049406
>Plot is the bread and butter of a show.
Is this the first TV show you've ever watched? Are you genuinely retarded?

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>muh plot

>>15605142
>unironically typing a tumblr meme out
This is why no one takes musicians seriously because you're all pretentious blowhards who think because you took a basic music class in HS you have enough knowledge of music to dismiss entire genres despite knowing nothing about them.

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>>156049406
>Plot is the bread and butter of a show

>>156050228
Just kill yourself faggot.

>>156051428
>"classically" ""trained"" (((pianist))) with 2 (ZERO) decades (DAYS) of "experience"
Real pianists don't have time to shitpost on /a/, it's one of the most thankless and demanding professions in the music industry. What you meant was probably "I took two lessons a year ago, while still in the middle school". Don't worry, honey, people make mistakes sometimes.