Could we, with our actual technology survive a BETA invasion

>>155750380
This belongs on /m/ /m/ate.
Underrated post.

>>155750380
Only by nuking their hives when they land or ideally before. We might lose lot of territory but we'd be mostly okay.

Otherwise it'd be a very long and incertain battle as most of our technology isn't designed for BETA battles. Fuck laser classes.

>>155750380
>Could we, with our actual technology survive a BETA invasion without recurring to impracticable TFS?
Probably not. But more importantly, if they are suppose to be mining machines, isn't it possible to trace them back to their masters?

I know that the franchise basically have no intention for the Betas to be defeated. That this is basically Sci-Fi zombie apocalypse. But I still am always wondering why no real attempts were made to track down the source.

>>155752253
I guess it would be possible to track their origin. But only thing you can figure out is that they came out of our solar system. There isn't enough data for anything more precise.

>>155750380
No. It would be same as in Muv Luv. BETA might go slower, but it would still be heavily unstoppable.

>>155752253
Actually after MLA humanity is doing much better against BETAs so maybe a victory could be attained someday. As for the source it's probably way too far to be found. After all they can't even catch the things BETA send in space because it'd take too much efforts.

>>155750380
Yes.

>>155752445
How?

>>155752469
Real world physics is on our side.

>>155752548
explain further.

>>155752548
Also real world terrain would negate the range and accuracy of their lasers while we comfortably shell the fuck out of them with long range artillery from out of visual range.

>fast moving jets with electro optical missiles.
There problem solved. Also tungsten/APFSDS can go through almost anything because it creates a high heat reaction in the armor.

>>155753083
They have numbers on their sides, though. It took half of the alliance ammo just to lessen their numbers during the Sadogashima assault. Possibly nukes too, I forgot.

Also
>Weak top armor
Exactly why we have LOAL mode on hellfires for top down attacks. Are the aliens even trying?

>>155753083
>>155753128
>what are Laser class

>>155753383
>what is physics

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>>155750380
>Hive bunkered in on Earth
>US generals yawned and sent a Nuclear bunker buster

What? They have 1Trillion laser class guarding it?
>launch a Nuclear bunker Buster in the middle of a storm, snow storm, or sand storm

>>155753209
Sorry to say but that is not realistic, mankind has a large stockpile of weapons and ammo and a frightful capacity to produce tons more once war production kicks in, the only way we could be Zerg rushed by betas is if they could build up their forces without us noticing them

>>155753604
Good job, you made that place inhabitable for decades.

>>155753383
>10+ second fire delays.
Fucking pathetic. Even ye olde AAA cannons had better fire rates.

>>155753738
But each shot is a hit.

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>>155753687
>An underground explosion releases a larger fraction of its energy into the ground, compared to a surface burst or air burst explosion at or above the surface, and so can destroy an underground target using a lower explosive yield

Nuclear bunker busters have a penetration of 15-30 meters with most of its explosive damaged compressed beneath the soil. The major concern would simply be the Earthquake, which could be felt for a hundreds of miles depending on kiloton.
Very little radiation and little concern over fallout

>>155753687
if we can't have it no one can

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>>155753879
Anti-laser equipment of the mech is a fucking smokescreen.
lmao

>>155753879
Sounds vulnerable to saturation attack with low attitude cruise missiles.

>>155753663
For that you need resources and manpower. We might have enough but there are only 1 billion people left in BETAverse.
Also, you forgot the biggest problem that comes with BETA fighting, it's their numbers. Taking the surface for a few hour isn't that hard, but then reinforcements that were underground come from everywhere, chain of command crumbles and so on. To solve that you need to infiltrate the hive and destroy the reactor which means close combat with herds of enemies. Infantry can't do that, tanks are less fit than TSF for BETA fighting and can't get around the hive as fast.

>>155753604
Only one? That is not the American way, sent at least 20

>>155753663
This is excactly what happened, they built up forces on Mars and then proceeded to send them to the Moon, and from there to Earth.)

>>155754045
First off. It takes only 100 men with common sense to get rid of the entire BETA threat
Second: The fuck would underground system do when we are equip with tools that can read seismic waves to track down earthquakes
Third: We only need to take out the hive

>>155754045
You are going back to their universe, we are talking about a real world scenario.

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>>155750380

Tsfs are the least efficient way to do things to be honest. Mounting guns on top of trucks would be better.

>>155752816

The BETA are useless nonces without the Laser-Class, which is physically impossible. Without that one magnificent asspull, the BETA would get wiped out.

>>155754154
Again:explain how it works, then.

>>155754154
This, common sense would be our winning strategy

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>>155754154
>Third: We only need to take out the hive
what?
Taking out the BETAs on ground wont cut it because a lot of them are still underground and eventually overwhelm the surface by coming out from everywhere in the front lines. If you want to put an end to this you need to destroy the reactor in the hive. It's filled with dozens of thousands of BETAs.

>>155754384
Meh, like Anon said, a couple of nuclear bunker Buster's would produce an earthquake that either trap or crush most of them

>>155754576
They're literally digging machines. After 1 or 2 hours, thousands of them pop out of the ground and you haven't achieved anything.

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>>155754384
Bunker Nukes and Seismic Monitor, my little friend
Tons of boulders collapsing above you are far more destructive than hellfire missiles.

Add a good dose of cloud seeding to render laser class completely ineffective

What? there are still 1Gingolilion BETAs deep beneath the soil? Heh! Their entire point is the numerical tactics but a tunnel system completely funnels them.
One man with a good tank is enough to take everything down in that tunnel. Just change him with another guy once he felt bored

>>155754616
Yes but 2 hours is a pretty long time to destroy the core and then you achieved victory

>>155754655
>tunnel
These tunnels are huge. You have hundreds of creatures simultaneously coming out of them. Even if you manage to shoot them all (at the same time, and only with your ground equipment), you're not making any progress toward the core and the bodies actually help shielding them. Remember those Destroyer class that can run at 170 km/h and are so tough that 120mm doesn't do shit to them? While you're trying to make a dent on their armor the smaller ones just get around you and fuck you up (they can bit through mechs)

>>155754699
The 2 hours pause is just the delay you get on the ground (and it's not exactly free time since there are likely still BETA popping out/still alive during that time). It doesn't mean the hive is empty. That's just the time you get to try and infiltrate it before the people on ground have to fuck off.

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>>155754891
They wanted to get out of the tunnels?
Nice. The heavy atmospheric condition brought by the rain is gagging the laser class. Let a single apache kill them all

Oh, the tank can't kill the Destroyer at front? Target his legs.

>>155755125
this is getting dumber and dumber but at least the reaction pics are okay

>>155755177
I know right?
BETA classes are comedy gold

>>155755202
I wasn't talking about BETAs.

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Reminder that a fog alone is enough to render laser war completely defunct

>>155755288
Muv Luv obviously operate on the rule of cool and sci-fi bullshit as well. If it didn't it wouldn't even have TSFs in the first place.
The setting establish that only their mercury bombs are able to create a proper defense against Laser class BETAs, a cloud is nothing to them.

>>155755670
The justification being muh metal clouds.
Not sure how much it holds up in real life, but it doesn't break my suspension of disbelief.

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Do the laser classes only shoot down guided missiles and planes or can they shoot at unguided shells too?

>>155756948
They prioritize electronics / manned weapons, don't know about that. They do tear down walls and doors to move around when needed but I don't know about shooting stuff.

I guess laser classes would detect a fast incoming simple object and shoot it because there are no humans or computers around.

>>155756948
Missiles are the size of a man. Shells are the size of a child
Betas can't even hit a mech under a smoke screen cover lol

>>155756948
They shoot down artillery shells like flies.

>>155750380
>only after 1995
Is the Soldier-class the result of using humans, right? Considering that its size is just a bit bigger than human, what kind of monster race did the BETA used as blueprint to design the Fort-class?

>>155754891
120mm cannons don't shoot bullets dumbo the APFSDS rounds melt the armor no matter how hard it is.

>>155750380
Could we, with our actual technology, have sex with BETAs without recurring to impracticable TFS?

>>155758192
there was tentacle rape in the vn

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>>155750380
>>155754891
>15 hardness on Mosh scale
A diamond (10) can easily be crushed by a hammer.
Tank plate armor are made up of varying layers of steel, plastic, and ceramic armor to produce various degrees of softness and hardness. Going full hard is no different from going full soft because the harder and object is, the greater the effects of stress would be. With hardness comes brittleness

Also, that 170km/h is just 47m/s. A modern layered tank laughs at shells flying at less than 1,600 m/s

>>155758192
Yes, but it will lead you to a pleasurable death.

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>>155750380
Probably.

>>155750380
Hell no

>>155759719
well yeah. Lasers are a pretty dumb weapon that are too susceptible to the elements

>>155750380
Nope

This sort of reminds me of an argument I had with a friend arachnids from the starship trooper universe vs beta

>>155750380
>mohs 15 hardness
doesn't exist. and if it existed we would harvest it from their corpses and strap it onto vehicles.

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>>155753383
Can't stop telephone poles hitting them at orbital velocities.

>>155762089
You'd have a hard time taking back the corpses though.

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>>155750380

>>155753604
>launch a Nuclear bunker Buster in the middle of a storm, snow storm, or sand storm
Not possible. ICBMs can't be fired into particulates, such as hanging dust, sandstorms, ash plumes, or blizzards, because the material hanging in the air will sandblast the descending warhead to scrap before it reaches the appropriate detonation altitude.

This is a critical part of ICBM silo defense, because it means that a silo can't be nuked twice in quick succession thanks to the mushroom cloud, which ensures that the silo can return fire; the missile's speed at launch is comparatively sedate and has no problem climbing through debris.

>>155762089
A fiction where DU rounds don't exist. Wonderful.

>>155753687
>ayys wiped out
>some land is fucked up for some decades
A win in my book

>>155758491
>A modern layered tank laughs at shells flying at less than 1,600 m/s
It doesn't really matter whether an object hits you with 47 m/s or 1600 m/s when it's multiple times your tank's weight

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>>155764031
That's not really a tactical win, though. USAs destroyed half of Canada to get rid of a single hive. There are more than 20 and the number only keeps growing if you don't prevent ayys from multiplicating too much.

Although you can find some really useful materials in the hive after capturing it to create nukes on steroids and gravitational fields, so that's not a bad deal.

>>155764209
I don't see the problem. Kill the ayy- worry about other things later.

>>155764209
>losing canada
And nothing of value was lost

>>155763476
That's....Actually pretty interesting, you learn something new every day.

>>155764209
Wasn't that because the BETA were moving toward the US?

Either way, I don't understand why they never just used artillery to clear the surface of laser-class BETAs and then just drop a couple of nukes to clear out each hive in MLA. Laser-class BETAs could never be a tenth as effective as they are in MLA so humanity would probably survive; a big part of why humanity was losing was because they couldn't rely on aerial superiority because laser-class BETAs were fucking stupid.

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>>155750380
Is this meant to be impressive? Top kek. Drop bombs, everybody goes home.

>>155764301
Can't develop without land and resources. The war is still ongoing after 30 years and could last a lot longer, so you need to think a bit on the long run.

Well, if it was only nukes it'd be a thing but the kind of bombs they use to destroy hives completely destroy nature on a large scale and for decades. So while it's still a call to be made sometimes, it can't be used for all hives.

>>155764482
>Either way, I don't understand why they never just used artillery to clear the surface of laser-class BETAs and then just drop a couple of nukes to clear out each hive in MLA
Clearing the surface of laser-class BETAs already comes at a big material cost. Actually they can't "clear" the surface, only keep the rate of laser-class low enough for TSFs to be able to operate.
Then, as far as I remember, the nukes aren't that useful against hives. They used some during the Sadogashima attack but it only helps clearing the surface.

>>155757898
space whales or some giant space coral.

>>155764645
Actually you have to get deep into a hive for nukes to be efficient.
>Nukes might have a small offensive role in clearing out hives, but only if you can get deep enough into the hive in the the first place to make it worth while (drift entrances could be just as easily cleared with cheaper air-fuel bombs). Once humanity had the capability to penetrate hives that deep, G-bombs were already available and mass producible.

http://muvluv.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Unin/FrodoTip:_Nukes%3F

>>155765014
Or you could just set it off inside an entrance and clear out the tunnels for about ten miles, then set off the next nuke ten miles in.

>>155764645
>>155765014

I thought they cleared the surface during the Sadogashima attack in their initial salvo without nukes. Either way, I'm surprised that humanity never found a way to collapse the hives or something like that. I bet they could've also attached nuclear devices to a bunch of BETAs and let them return to their hives since BETAs are fucking stupid and they won't be able to relay that information to the Original Hive since their hive would be destroyed.

Nukes seem to be pretty weak in MLA too, they used a bunch of them inside the Original Hive and they didn't even collapse one of the passageways

>>155765131
It wouldn't help all that much.

>Maybe nukes could be used to dig to hive reactors!? 1 MT in hard rock - 100 Ft crater, and that's if it's adequately plugged. A constrained detonation also takes longer to cool, reducing rate of excavation further, unless your nukes are lava-proof.

>>155765188
They used S11 which are supposedly about as strong as tactical nukes. But it was only two TSFs doing that, and they were in the OG hive.

They did block an entrance using half of their S11 and missiles, but it wasn't shown.

Humanity would win easily because Laser class is fucking stupid and wouldn't work

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>>155765370
i wonder who's behind this post

I've never read Muv Luv. Can these things resist sarin gas?

>>155765483
Easily. They can live on Mars, on the moon, and cross the sea by foot.

BETA are pure magic and physically impossible in almost every aspect of their existence. Either their existence means humanity can develop their own magical bullshit to counter them (and no, not just mechs) or they cease to exist all at once the moment they try to exist in our universe due to being impossible.

If they can use bullshit lasers, why not just make bullshit lasers to use ourselves? I mean, given that they would clearly work

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>>155754891

So, let's do some science:

You have a creature that is 4 times the linear dimensions of an elephant that can charge at 7 times the speed of a charging elephant. It doesn't look like it has significantly greater biomechanical efficiency, (in fact, it looks worse, but let's be generous), and energy consumption for moving creatures is basically driving force times speed, and the force needed to keep a creature moving is roughly proportional to its mass, which in this case will be at least 64 times that of an elephant (more, given its heavy armour). So, we have 448 times the energy consumption of an elephant, or roughly 1.5MW. Pictured: 1.5MW of portable industrial cooling capacity. We don't need to kill the Destroyer-class, we just let them boil in their own waste heat.

>>155765704
Because their usage of bullshit lasers requires G-Elements, which is used to explain why Betas are so bullshit.Humans eventually make bullshit lasers of their own at the end, but they only have a limited amount of G-Elements to use

>>155765745
But they're aliens, What if they have that shit all figured out already?

>>155765213
Reading comprehension much? Tunnels are made of air, not rock.

>>155765745
>using logic against the BETA
and this is where you fail

>>155765985
Thought you meant for digging tunnels.
They already nuke the insides of the hives with their suicide devices but it's not enough, so unless you're talking hundreds of nukes it won't do much.

>>155765973
Couldn't you just capture some laser betas and use whatever G elements they have in their bodies? Hell, you could probably cut out the middleman and find a way to force the laser betas to fire, like press something into the back of their eyeballs or something. Strap them on a mech, and you're good to go

>>155765188
yeah their nukes look to be about 4kt, which is 4x weaker than hiroshima, not to mention bombs like the minuteman and tsar bomba, which would probably vaporize the entire hive

>>155766140
The laser-classes are practically magic, I wouldn't spend effort too much effort to explain things that the author didn't justify well enough with normal common sense.

Just release Ebola. Whats stopping us from using biological/radiological and chemical weapons?

>>155766140
>nuke betas
>harvest g-elements
>create bullshit
>??????
>profit

>>155766140
While capturing betas is possible and has been done in the series (although at a big cost), they don't friendly fire ever, and researches on their bodies hasn't given anything other than the fact they're carbon-based lifeforms.
G elements are inside the hive, not inside their bodies.

>>155766228
Of all kind of weapons you could think of, chemical weapons and radiations are probably the less likely things to hurt BETAs

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>>155764208
What's the weight of a Destroyer class?
In WW2, Russia cannot penetrate the German tigers so the strategy is to collide it with their T-34 (26.5 tonnes) running at 53 km/h. They had to do this multiple times in order to prevent the Tiger from escaping and letting the infantries come in for the kill

A modern Abrams or Centurion would find no problem resisting a Destroyer

>>155764209
>That's not really a tactical win, though. USAs destroyed half of Canada to get rid of a single hive.
It's like someone didn't know how to use nukes. You don't have to drop 3-stage city busters with massive fallout onto a small target. You use "clean", small thermonuclear ones with a casing that doesn't produce too much fallout. And either you detonate them at altitude to wipe out surface targets or you use ground-penetrating ones to contain the radioactive isotopes. Using surface detonations would be utterly stupid.

>>155752253
Well, they do control 10^37 planets or something like that, right?

>>155766248
>G elements are what allow betas to do bullshit, i.e. laser class
>Laser class don't have G elements in their bodies
>Also, their lasers are fucking magic that can't hurt each other rather than acting anything like a physical function of any living being or machine, capable of being forcibly induced
Great

>>155766240

This is infact the plot of MLA yes.

>>155766325
Destroyer class probably weight more than 26 tonnes considering an elephant can weight 6 tonnes and it's much bigger.
Just 3 tonnes would be enough because they run more than 3 times faster than 53 km/h, making the kinetical energy more than 9 times higher

>>155766417
Lasers hurt them all, but they don't fire at friends, even if there's a human behind.

>>155766417
Think of the hives like BETA factories that need G-elements as fuel, kinda.

>>155766477
A modern Abrams was built in such a way that it can shrug off a Fuel Tanker running at them a 137 km/h

>>155766088
If their weakness is awesome then we just throw money at the experimental weapons departments and let them crank out railguns, lasers, xray-beams, scramjet missiles, nukes and that kind of shit.

And give your soldiers some drama lessons and a radio system that can record their conversations so they can utter heroic one-liners before setting off to suicidal missions.

>>155766091
Clearly they weren't trying hard enough. I see you've run out of reasons why it won't work.

>>155766301
So biological would work.
>Small pox or any bug disease because they live closely together in a hive

>>155766722
they can just use bullshit lasers.

>>155766771
>Bullshit lasers to kill microscopic diseases.

Bravo

>>155766578
Large fuel tankers weight about 50 tonnes which still makes the impact lesser than a Destroyer class simply because of the speed difference and assuming the Destroyer only weights 25 tonnes.

>>155766630
The reason is you'd need at least hundreds to clear a path to the reactor and that's assuming it doesn't block you and you can detonate them one after the other. Keep in mind that the more you get in the hive, the more you get surrounded by betas coming from all entrances. And you need to transport them all in the hive which becomes impossible when your chain of command is crumbling.

>>155766625
Better yet, instead of using something evil like technology, give japanese teenagers swords, research on magic and spirits and collect the elemental orbs.

>>155766722

Their metabolism runs on space magic. How are terrestrial microorganisms supposed to infect space magic?

>>155766722
They're carbon lifeforms who live on Mars and travel in space, anon. What makes you think they're vulnerable to a disease?
They did research their bodies and found nothing of value, so I assume biological weaknesses are included in that.

>>155766862
we are carbon lifeforms too. and being able to survive in a vacuum does not make you immune to disease.

>>155766798
So, A Destroyer weights just 25 tonnes?

Well, the Abrams weight 54 to 65 tonnes. Unless it collided at 300km/h, the tank won't budge

>>155766798
>need hundreds
>Somehow BETA out of nowhere when they're all dead for several miles
>chain of command is crumbling (lolwat)
Cool story bro.

>could be survive BETA irl?
>yes, because
>b-but in the VN

What's the point of this thread?

>>155766477
>26 tonnes
>Impressive
Pick one

>>155767016
an excuse to talk about Muv Luv

>>155767016
Lore wankery. It's fun sometimes.

>>155766978
>>155767043
26 is an understatement. These guys are about 5 or 6 times bigger than elephants, so if their volumic mass is the same they should weight at least a hundred time more. So think 300 tonnes and that's rounding it down.

>>155767011
>what are multiple tunnels
They can't enter them all, anon.

>>155763476
Pretty sure ICBMs can penetrate heavy precipitation of storm clouds. It reentered from low orbit after all. But yeah, sand storms and blizzards will be a threat.

Small rain is enough to kill the Laser class anyway so it won't be much of a change in tactics

>>155750380
Is that a giant pussy on the soldier-class one?

>>155766477
Can't you strap living soldier class Beta onto your vehicles and shit then so the Beta won't fire at you?

>>155766325
According to Wikipedia, a large elephant weighs 10 tonnes at a height of 4 m. Since a destroyer class is 16 m tall, it would weigh 10 t * 4³, i. e. roughly 640 tonnes. Modern MBTs are in the 60-70 tonnes range, so a destroyer class would be 10 times as heavy as your average tank. And that's assuming that a) it has the same mass as an elephant (which is unlikely due to the heavy armor) and b) that it has the same tall and slender physique (which it clearly doesn't, making it much heavier).

There is no way in hell a tank would survive getting rammed by an object at least ten times as heavy moving at 170 km/h, no matter what kind of armor it has.

>>155767200
yes

>>155767016
I suspect he inteded to make this in /k/ but accidently made it on the wrong board and now has to defend the BETA aginst anons who
Know that BETA are concentrated bullshitium
Know that Beta-verse humans are stupid
Actually know the lore
Have been through this a hundrd times

>>155767218
Density is a lot more important in this case. A knife is about 100 grams yet nobody is going to win a punching contest with one.

>>155767218
Obviously the solution is to lure a destroyer onto a giant treadmill, then have it generate enough electricity to power fucking anything we want

>>155767217
You probably could but you'd need a lot to leave no openings. It's not worth the effort when the real problem is the rest of the BETA coming to chomp your vehicle. The strain of BETA that gets the most kills is actually the shitty Tank one because of sheer numbers.

>>155767268
Half of the thread is just "lasers are bullshit no way they could exist" though.

>>155767320
>170 km/h
>640 tonnes
All our energy problems are solved! One Destroyer-class can power 1000000 households.

>>155767340
Well like, put it on a heavy helicopter gunship. The lasers aren't precise enough to shoot through small cracks because the lasers are pretty big so you wouldn't need total coverage.

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>>155767176
>>155767218
>300 tonnes
>600 tonnes
I admit I lost but I am having a good laugh
This single BETA can kill all the BETAs on Earth

>>155767340
>Half of the thread is just "lasers are bullshit no way they could exist" though.
To be fair, lasers are bullshit no way they could exist

>>155767340
How do they detect each other? Could you cut down a soldier into a small enough chunk while still living then place it as a forward payload on a missile to keep them from shooting it?

>>155767218
>640 tonnes
This is the single most ridiculous writing I've ever read. My fucking sides

>>155767393
>lasers are pretty big
what

>>155767470
4U
Their eyes

>>155756948
>>155757097
Those smoke screens are actually metal particles from shells that got vaporized by laser classes.

>>155767393
That could work but you don't necessarily need that. Helicopters can and already did a lot of BETA kills thanks to their aerial superiority when the laser classes were taken out, but, again, numbers.

>>155767454
That's actually a good idea. We don't know how they detect each other so that might work. But only for 21 days iirc because after that all BETA hives get a strategy update to deal with the tactics you've used against them.

Ideal case would be strapping it on a missile and firing it in the big hole at the center of the hive to destroy the reactor, but laser classes there are really trigger sensitive (probably because MUH REACTOR) so they might still shoot it.

>>155767570
How's that supposed to be any better?

>>155767320
Why does this sound like a silly subplot of a possible kaiju movie?

How close are we to kill-sats?

>>155767756
The cloud metal has to be kept at a high density. It's not just smoke, but heavy metal particles.

>>155753663
What if they hit the middle east of middle or some other 3rd world county with little more than a militia to defend themselves with

>>155767899
Like we need more reasons to nuke the ME

>>155767756
>can they shoot at unguided shells too?

>>155767899
Probably another Canada.

>>155767899
That's not exactly what happened but URSS refused foreign help, possibly so they could keep the hive for themselves. It worked until betas adapted and laser classes showed their faces.
America didn't fuck around and destroyed hives at ground zero or even before landing.

>lasers
Use a mirror, retards

>>155768140
Mirror with heatsink!

>>155768140
nigga u serious?

how do lasers even work ?

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>>155768140
This actually work

>mfw

>>155768276
All you need to know is that you can't win.

>>155768248
you would have to make a mirror out of their bullshit 15 mohs armor

>>155767899
we have satellites you know. nothing large-scale on earth goes unnoticed.

>>155767899
Losing out on the oil would be slightly disappointing, but they'd get glassed within 12 hours.

>>155764602
This, one big bomb at high altitude to kill laser guys and then drop a few bunker busters from aircraft.

>>155769856
You'd need hundreds of nukes to take out everyone on ground, best case.

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>>155750380
It's been a while since I thought about stuff like BETA or Warhammer-tier invasions, but if I remember right we probably could survive a BETA invasion, though only on the scale of the vanilla games. I'm not too sure about Schwaresmarken considering there was so much political shit mucking up the gears. I haven't read/seen any other iteration like the IF stories or Eclipse.

>>155769956
Nice bullshit when even artillery is enough to thin laser class enough to let the mechs land. Nukes are more destructive than this.
Anyway just do what they are doing then have the mechs/planes drop a dozen bunker busters on the hive.

>>155770055
>If we assume the BETA distribution during Operation 21ST is average for BETA herds (again generous given proximity to a hive), than a Battalion size Herd of BETA can be spread over an area perhaps a dozen miles in radius, requiring roughly 150 - 1MT warheads evenly distributed to saturate the area to a lethal temperature for a few seconds just on thermal radiation alone. 150 warheads to wipe out a battalion sized herd... maybe. This lasts for 4 to 5 seconds before the hot air begins to rise away from the surface (sucking in cooler air), and within 20 seconds (decreasing with increased pressure zones) the air returns to normal. If the BETA had lungs, they would be cooked, but considering the fact that they're space monsters, that probably wouldn't be an issue. 20 seconds isn't a lot of time for thermal conduction to transfer the energy from hot air to BETA either, and initial radiation may actually induce protective ablation, insulating quite a bit. This is all assuming an air-burst, which would be difficult with any Lux around; for surface detonations you can approximately half the energy densities. This also assumes an ideal flat surface, with clear air. Heavy Metal clouds in the area would obviously reduce the thermal load via reduced radiation transmittance.

>>155770181
>
The next "deadly" threat nuked BETA would be exposed to is nuclear radiation. Neutron flux can be expected to decrease at the inverse square of the distance (ignoring air absorption and capture, which to be fair may result in gamma rays), while equivalent radiation dosages would depend on the distribution of radioactive isotopes after the blast. For the most part, anything within 1.2 miles of the blast would be subjected to in excess of 1000 rem. For perspective, 600 rem is 100% fatal for humans, but 1000 rem is just a particularly "sunny" day for BETA strolling on the surface of the moon. If we assume 1000 rem is the absolute limit for BETA however (again exceedingly generous), then it would take only 100 warheads to wipe out that herd. Getting better, but still prohibitive, and that's at an arbitrarily low tolerance. It should be noted that rem exposure is a cumulative thing, but BETA aren't exactly likely to sit around and wait to be evenly cooked post detonation. Radiation absorbed dose falls off even faster with distance, so we can ignore it.

>>155770220
>Perhaps the pressure from the air blast would be more effective? In terms of blast overpressure for humans, 4psi can be lethal in terms of respiratory and circulatory damage. 10 psi is comically lethal, involving dismemberment, and is even strong enough to bust up reinforced concrete. But BETA body-slam through reinforced concrete all day, with no ill effects, and modern bomb-suits can use rigid plates to deflect such overpressure to non-lethal levels. That said, lets call 10 psi the upper limit for BETA overpressure. Everything inside of bout 8000ft from the blast experiences at-least that pressure at some point, generally within the first few seconds, though its obviously a quick peak that falls once the wave passes. Pressure actually falls to significantly below atmospheric, causing a short suction event, but not significant as far as BETA are concerned (vacuum is fine too). the 500mph wind might pick up and toss around tank class and smaller, but critters like these, with an arm-strength capable of equally comic dismemberment as that blast overpressure, ought to be able to hold on for those few seconds given a good grip. But still, an assumed lethality radius of 8000 ft requires only 50-60 1MT blasts to wipe out that herd.


These numbers might be feasible for planning a nuclear minefield, if BETA could be relied on to chose such a path to frolic and scamper through, however BETA are notoriously unpredictable, and the number of nuclear warheads needed to adequately form a defensive line simply isn't practical. Big nukes, that could get the job done in one detonation, are too big to lug around, too expensive to field, and take a lot of resources to mass produce.

>>155768140
mirrors don't work against lasers because you can always focus more lasers on a single spot, overwhelming the mirror's cooling capacity while keeping your distributed sources within operational limits.

There's a far easier method.
>build earth wall
>high melting point
>high heat capacity
>any energy source trying to melt its way through would fry itself

>>155770254
>lug around
ICBM
>too expensive to field, and take a lot of resources to mass produce
I don't trust those armchair assertions.
If they are true then refer to >>155770055
>Anyway just do what they are doing then have the mechs/planes drop a dozen bunker busters on the hive.

>>155770316
>mirrors don't work against lasers because you can always focus more lasers on a single spot, overwhelming the mirror's cooling capacity while keeping your distributed sources within operational limits.
They kinda do when they have such a long cooldown. It would at least limit the casualties. Anyway I'm sure it would let them have perfect air superiority until hives get updated, they wouldn't know to focus on one target.

>>155750380
>confirmed strains of Beta

I feel like this needs an "OP" section for banter purposes

I haven't read all the thread, I've been thinking, considering lasers are fucking weak against clouds and similar high density gases. Would it be feasible to develop a ultra high density smoke to prevent the laser betas to fuck shit up? It could even be delivered through a swarm like volley of cheap missiles that could cover several kilometres.

>>155770254
>Big nukes, that could get the job done in one detonation, are too big to lug around, too expensive to field, and take a lot of resources to mass produce.
1.2 megaton devices were mass-produced.

And larger bombs are not that much more effective, a swarm of small nukes can actually cover more surface area due to the way energy is dissipated.

>>155770254
Well it would be even more prohibitive with artillery (more pesos/resources to cover the same area), so I don't get your point.

>>155770590
that's what they do but the clouds are hard to maintain at sufficient density

>>155770590
Do this, then guided missiles precisely down onto the hive.

>>155752253

The Beta basically direct all of the supplies to a collection point. It's possible that the point itself is somewhere their creators won't even be at for billions of years, similar to if we sent self-replicating robots to terraform a world, intending to go to it millions of years later. It could even just be a sub-transit point, like bringing everything to a warehouse to have it shipped even further. Even if known, wherever it is, it's outside our galaxy and given that there is no FTL travel in MLA, by the time we were able to do anything meaningful with the information, humanity would be dead if we spent resources on it.

>>155750380
That question is too hard to answer and would depend on a lot of specifics. The beta lasers are really good at dealing with aerial bombardment since they are used to operating on planets with a lot of meteor downfall. My guess is that we would probably try biological weapons of some kind and that perhaps with pathogens, etc, we may be able to infect/kill them before they can adapt. Then again, they have adapted to thousands of other worlds and poisoning ours is risky unless we can very specifically target it. The hive itself is a biological organism, so poisons/toxins are the best play.

Still, the problem is more politics than technology. We can't just nuke things in other countries without prompting military responses. So, it all depends on how politics align. And of course because of G-elements, countries may even want to try securing a hive for production.

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The most deadly weapon of all time, a United States Marine.

>>155771178
Lost to Vietnamist farmers lmao

>>155771218
Why don't we take those farmers and make them fight the aliens?

>>155771218
Only because they had to "follow the rules of war"

Come on anons. Where is my Muvlu mod for EU4 or Ck2 or HOI4?

>>155752816
well for one the fortess class would be all but inmoble its far to tall to suport its weight and even if it could due to how the way the legs are shaped it wouldint get fare till it legs got stuk in the groun makingin it incablable of movment aside from that we are fare more adept ad low altatude flight attack shopers would easly be able to fly in under a laser class and roket the shit out of them alowing for long rang morter strikes witch Im not sure if you looked at latly but thows are getting rely fucking acutret and powerfull honestly the only thing the BETA have on us at the moment is numbers and well a simply slow altadue assult with coppers to take out the AA falowed by heavy carpet bombing will take care of that

>>155775475
To many spelling mistakes, didn't read.

>>155754154
this guys knows whats what litraly I can see the way the fight would go

phase one: send in a group of appach to take out the laserclass they can come in low and fast aswell as delever a havy puch

phase two: wide scale carpet bombing devastate the ground forces to hault the advance one the laser classes are delt with

phase three nuck the hive shouldint take to mutch to complty desabalise a underground strucher with no real issue

phase four : clean up send in a armord devition to take out straglers and paint any basable remaing tunnels from the hive for shelling

>>155750380
Yes, because luckily we have the laws of physics and thermodynamics on our side to protect us from the BETA's plot armour bullshit.

>>155767218
so your saying that a distroyer class weighs more then a fucking blue whale witch mind you is the single largest living chrcher on this fucking planet and only clocks in at around 200 ton also FYI the only reson the blue whale can serviv its own weight is due to it living in the fucking sea

>>155768049
so in the MV univers the us is the smarest cuntry because they treted the beta like a real threat

>>155770254
so your saying we couldint feuild 3 tsar bombas lol each one of thows fuckers had a payload of around 57MT