Why is Japan so obsessed with the idea of talent vs hard work?

>>155283923
Because hard-working faggots are entitled mediocre whiny bastards so it's fun to bully them

>>155283923

cause their school system is a bitch and a half to get through

>>155284112
You realize how fabulously contradictory this post is correct?

They're allowed to say genetics affect intelligence

>>155283923
Because natural talent > hard work in 2d and Irl anon.
No matter how hard you try, an average person would never beat someone gifted.

>>155284264
>never
It's like you didn't watch Ping Pong at all

>>155283923
If you have to work hard you aren't talented.

>>155283923
Everyone in the anime industry have failed in life regardless of how much effort have they put into it.

>>155284150
It isn't.
Hard-working fags never obtain results while the gift-from-heaven talented fag does, and still they have the nerve to rage at the heavens when they're left behind.
>"We got killed by the bad dude but it's ok because you're a hard worker who did his best effort".


>>155284264
Pretty much.

>>155284264

Hardworking and talented>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hard working and average skill cap>Talented but lazy>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Average skill cap and lazy

Because plebs need to feel better about being mediocre.

"Hardworker" succeeds: "Ha, see? Talent isn't everything!"
"Hardworker" fails: "See? It's all hopeless without talent."

The irony is that many talented characters work hard while the 'underdogs' get by through short cuts, cheats, or some hidden talent that's arguably superior to the genius's.

>>155284468
Cheating is the gift man gives himself

Because working hard is for normies.

Yukkuri shiteitte ne.

>>155284444
some anon posted this the other day
>A practical observation on the risks of stupidity was made by the German General Kurt von Hammerstein-Equord in Truppenführung, 1933: "I divide my officers into four classes; the clever, the lazy, the industrious, and the stupid. Each officer possesses at least two of these qualities. Those who are clever and industrious are fitted for the highest staff appointments. Use can be made of those who are stupid and lazy. The man who is clever and lazy however is for the very highest command; he has the temperament and nerves to deal with all situations. But whoever is stupid and industrious is a menace and must be removed immediately!"

>>155283923
Sometimes they get it right like in Air Gear.
>"MC is a genius, I can't compete"
>MC was trainingon his own
>He was training at least as much as the whiny secondary character

>>155284556
I REALLY value the opinions of a fucking Nazi war criminal. Thank you man. This changed my entire outlook on hardwork and talent.

>>155284556
>But whoever is stupid and industrious is a menace and must be removed immediately!"

wtf is that supposed to mean?

It's simply human nature

>>155284837
Probably that they try and fuck things up.

>>155284556
>let's gimp our military forces
>gets invaded, country divided into two, have our cities bombed and our women mass raped and yet to this day have foreign armies occupy your country

wew lad

>>155284874
i know, but did he mean to kill them or just put them elsewhere?

>>155284556
This is true. I know the smart kids in my HS who are doing jack shit now.

T. Hardworking and average.

>>155284810
>implying whoever you country up with haven't committed war crimes throughout history
All monsters are human, Anon.

>>155283923
Because Japs thing they're racially superior to everybody else in Asia, that's why they keep going with the >talented meme.

>>155283923
More importantly, how much of a newcunt faggot do you need to be in order to post a .png file of almost 3.5 MB?

>>155284955
It's cuz they were coddled and constantly reminded that they were really smart and talented. That bred complacency. Well at least that's the current theory for all the alleged smart people that couldn't handle college.

>>155284810
To be fair, nazis were very efficient at being war criminals back then. Nowadays you can only expect them to post memefrogs on twitter.

>>155284538
If you gotta win, you gotta win. It's just not reliable. Like lying, it can screw you in the long run.

>>155284810
Showing your complete and utter ignorance, guy opposed Hitler.

>>155284837
it's called foreshadowing

>>155284978
Japan hasn't committed war crimes tho.

>>155285141
Yes he sure opposed Hitler. Probably hates him too huh. Did he follow orders as a German soldier? If so then he fully supported Hitler.

>>155284192
among individuals

>>155284810
>>155285215
Kurt von Hammerstein-Equord (26 September 1878 – 24 April 1943) was a German general who served for a period as Commander-in-Chief of the Reichswehr. He is famous for being an ardent opponent of Hitler and the Nazi regime.
>He was recalled to military service as the commander of Army Group A on 10 September 1939 but retired again on 21 September 1939.
>During World War II, Hammerstein-Equord was involved in several plots to overthrow Hitler. He tried repeatedly to lure Hitler into visiting a fortified base under his command along the Siegfried Line of the Western Front.

Hmm, really makes you think

>>155285324
Wow nice Wikipedia edit. Fake news. What next?

>>155285218
Are you claiming these genetic trends aren't predictable based on family history?

>>155283923
It seems to be way more prevelant in LN adaptationms than just in anime overall. Which makes sense, bc if you're an LN author there's a very high chance you have zero talent but are busting your ass off to make as many volumes of garbage as you possibly can in the shortest time you can.

File: tAoCm3o.png (31KB, 780x530px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 780x530px

>>155284354
Sounds like you are a butt mad poor fag.
Successful people know the most important thing is hard work.

>>155285447
short people can have tall children

>>155284556
>The man who is clever and lazy however is for the very highest command; he has the temperament and nerves to deal with all situations. But whoever is stupid and industrious is a menace and must be removed immediately!"
I get why the stupid and industrious is a shit but why is the clever and lazy top tier?

>>155285656
Lazy smart people will actively seek out easier ways to do things. They will find creative ways to get the job done quicker.

>>155285644
Sure, but it's less likely than tall parents having tall children. That's why they're called trends

File: IMG_0402.jpg (111KB, 1024x576px) Image search: [Google]

111KB, 1024x576px

>>155284290
>It's like you didn't watch Ping Pong at all
It looks like you didn't, either.

>>155284290
>>155285758
Explain for someone who didn't watch this.

>>155285758
He literally beat the talented character. Hard work beats lazy talent

>>155285789
and then talent works slightly hard for a lot less time and blows everyone the fuck out

>>155283923
They seemed to be more obsessed with the idea of aristocracy being cool. At least in the sci-fi.

>>155285634
This graph is interesting. Do you have source?

>>155285789
But the talented lazy character whips back once they start putting an effort into it.

>>155285833
Still not never, which is what I said

Talent + Hardwork > Hardwork > Talent that is not honed through Hardwork

Pretty basic desu

>>155285853
Obviously, because the moral of ping pong is that hard work and talent combined best all

Tl;dr git gud

>>155285902
So your point is that talent beats all.

>>155285784
The characters who work hard get wrecked by the ones with talent (the protagonist and his best friend). When pic related asks why he can never win despite going out of his way to train for his games the MC literally responds with
>because you have no talent

The MC's doofy best friend spends half the series screwing around and still manages to make it to the final round of their high school tournament because of his talent.

The MC only loses when he doubts himself or does it on purpose for his best friend.

>>155285842
It's another representation of this.

https://np.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/61ztua/how_do_you_get_rich_and_successful_according_to/

>>155286089
Not just because of his talent, because he buckles down and fucking works his ass off. Why are so many people underselling the work he puts in?

>>155285634
Wow, rich people grossly overinflate how much hard work they actually put in, thanks for sharing this information.

>>155286151
Because without the talent it would be useless no matter what he did. So it's really the talent that makes it.

>>155286232
>baseless opinion

Thanks berniebro, what else you got for me?

File: heh, heh..png (75KB, 318x299px) Image search: [Google]

75KB, 318x299px

>>155285634
>Rich
>Hard work
Of course they'd think this.

>>155286264
You can say the same for the hard work. Both are necessary, neither is sufficient

>>155286322
Yeah, but one is a choice and one isn't.
Without talent you will always be nothing because the talented guy could just do what you do if he wanted and blow you out of the water forever.

File: snapshot_18.40_[2016.12.24_06.25.05].png (3MB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 1920x1080px

>>155283923
did you reposted but with different pic?

>>155286405
There's nothing impressive in being born with something, it's like being proud of the color of your hair. Our choices are what define us

This thread is kinda funny for having some quote from a nazi general from the last century about lazi and smart and hardworking and stupid people and whatever and having richfags from reddit claim that they work really hard and are smart, but what does it really have to do with anime?

>>155286448
Who cares if it's impressive or not, no matter how you spin it sure is more useful though. And the world doesn't judge based on how much work you put in, but rather how much you put out.

>>155286550
Who cares how the world judges you? It's just a bunch of people like everyone else on here. Do you care what I think of you?

>>155286448
>There's nothing impressive in being born with something

tell that to all the stormweenies on this site

>>155286641
It won't be hard to convince them, they already have to come to grips with the fact that Asians are smarter than they are

File: 1469355673910.jpg (58KB, 367x360px) Image search: [Google]

58KB, 367x360px

>>155285634
>perceived

>>155286620
That's not exactly what I meant, not just other people in the world but life in general.
There is no aspect of life where putting in more effort to get out the same as someone who is talent is advantageous. No any that I can think of anyway.

ITT: Talentless hard workers who actually believe in free will.

The poor are poor because they take no risks, cooperate with nobody, and sacrifice nothing. Luck can toss you up but it can't keep you afloat.

>>155285656
Because they will get shit done to go back to being lazy. Stupid and industrious gets you the UK and banning everything

>>155286819
The poor are poor because people tend to live where they are born.

Born poor, die poor. Born rich, die rich. Simple.

Basically the only thing which can overturn this is extremely bad or extremely good luck.

>>155286787
Advantageous by what measure? If it gets you what you want, then isn't that good? Success is just getting paid to do what you'd do for free, and no one hates putting more effort into things they enjoy

>>155283923
Because Talent = their boss/CEO who was born into a wealthy family and shuffled into the position.
Hardwork = the carrot for future japanese salarymen who actually believe they'll ever move up in the company when all credit for their work will go to their bosses.

>>155286893
>Success is just getting paid to do what you'd do for free
Are you telling me to become an assassin?

>>155285324
You know what they say about broken clocks.

The guy who organized the 1944 bombing thought the Poles were untermenschen.

>>155285853
Yeah, once he started putting effort into it.

File: Ai-1.png (215KB, 421x425px) Image search: [Google]

215KB, 421x425px

>>155286819
>hey take no risks
It's kinda hard to take risks if when you fail you will literally starve on the street.
>sacrifice nothing
Now I really hope this is b8, what can someone with no time or money sacrifice?

>>155286819
Not everyone can ask their dad for another 2m to keep their business afloat.

>>155285634
>Successful people know the most important thing is hard work.
>connections that low

Rich people are honest about hard work, but not about how many advantages their connections bring them

File: 1456106654449.jpg (56KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

56KB, 1280x720px

>Why is Japan so obsessed with the idea of talent vs hard work?

Because anime is like pre-K educational television for adults/teens who refuse to grow up, and part of growing up is accepting no matter how hard you try, some people will just naturally be better than you.

Becasue hardwork comes as something natural so the only way to get ahead is to actually have talent

Unlike in the west were the moment you put any effort you rise above your peers because everyone is so fucking lazy

>>155285634
Kind of flawed graph.
Ofcourse the rich would think their success came about from them "working hard". It will never cross their minds that if it weren't for daddy being the owner of a fortune 500 company they would not have have the foundation to become wealthy themselves. So they do their little paid internship and afterwards get a cushy high paying position thanks to nepotism and wipe the sweat from their forehead thinking that they actually did "hard work"

>>155284556
I honestly would trade my higher ups for this nazi general.

>>155283923
The Japanese are raised under the correct belief that talent is non-existent and skill must be developed through hard work. The harder you work, the stronger your skills become.

Although I'm not sure exactly what you're asking or trying to prove. Only morons believe in "talent" outside of the rare cases like autistic savants, or using the word properly to refer to artistic skills that have been developed over time. Innate ability is a very minor player in proficiency.

>>155285634
This graph is only useful for speculation because it's perceived reasons, not the immeasureable actual reasons.

A combination of responsibility, reliability, and a strong network of connections is the key to success. And achieving those things requires hard work.

>>155285902
>Talent + Hardwork > Hardwork >= Talent that is not honed through Hardwork
Ftfy. Seriously though, some people just don't have it in them to make that hard work pay off.

Talent is the blade while Hardwork is the grip. Neither of them are useful on its own. Only when you combine them you obtain the sword called Success.

File: 1487473776618.png (208KB, 332x370px) Image search: [Google]

208KB, 332x370px

>>155287531
Sick analogy

Practice makes perfect, it's a phrase you hear from birth. "Talent" is a myth, at most people have different approaches to learning which affect how fast they can develop skills.

>>155285634
(you)

>>155284810
>>>/tumblr/

>>155284556
He's right, look at the hierarchy of any military. Those who use others efficiently are innately lazy, which makes them fit for command.

>>155287531
Talent is the quality of thr metal, hard work is the hard work. You can make a good sword out of shitty quality metal if you work out the impurities long enough. Purer metal just requires less beating to get it right.

>>155284941
That's what happens when you name (((them))).

>>155285634
More like this is a chart on what is they need the most

>>155287420
>The Japanese are raised under the correct belief that talent is non-existent
Complete bullshit. They know talent exists like anyone else with a brain. You have to be bitter or ignorant to think otherwise.

Sorry, some people are naturally better equipped than you are. Stop being arrogant and accept that.

>>155285215
I wonder how many non-white people browse /a/, besides you.

File: images (1).jpg (9KB, 277x182px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 277x182px

>>155287531
Poetic

>>155287967
Not gonna make it in life with that mindset. Confidence is not arrogance. Just because you might have to work harder than someone else to match them doesn't mean they were born with a special power, it just means they were raised under different circumstances and understand things differently.

File: experience.jpg (21KB, 495x345px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 495x345px

>>155285634
>perceived

Nice graph, fag.

>>155283923
Because hard work literally doesn't matter when the other guy is born with magic eye powers

This whole thread needs to listen to Emperor Charles' speech from R1 again.

>>155288054
>Not gonna make it in life with that mindset.
I'm one of the talented ones. I can make it just fine.

do people think talent is a thing?

File: sainou.jpg (132KB, 1281x746px) Image search: [Google]

132KB, 1281x746px

Words to remember.

>>155288305
People know talent is a thing

>>155287420
congrats, you've bought into the propaganda

File: 1093731.jpg (48KB, 213x262px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 213x262px

>you need talent to be succes-

>>155288285
But you are in 4chan, and in /a/ especially
You already failed

>>155285158
>He hasn't heard of the Rape of Nanking
Are you willfully ignorant, or just under-educated?

>>155285902
I'm not sure it's that simple. I'll be the first person to admit I didn't try a single fucking day in school, I think out of fear that I might try and still fail, which I was terrified of. In my final math class, there was only a dozen kids, because most kids were too stupid to make it that far in math. I didn't do a single sheet of homework, I was absent almost a day a week, and I often spent class time talking to the teacher about life, listening to music or sleeping. I had the second best grades in the class, tied with the hardworking ugly girl, only bested by the biggest geek in the school (I actually liked him, so I don't mean this offensively, I'm sure he's a millionaire right now). Meanwhile, the two kids who were failing were very pro-active: they never missed school, they were in sports, they were in other clubs (I think, choir), and were your typical model students. I would not call them "dumb," either, and yet they were really frustrated at their falling grade in the class - and were even more frustrated at my lazy ass, which made the class very uncomfortable.

>>155286687
Most people who are accused of being white supremacists actually highly respect, if not Asians in general, at least the Japanese. America once had qualms about allowing Japanese immigrants in not because they were perceived as unassimilable or of poorer stock, which was often the topic of other ethnic groups, but because they feared the Japanese immigrants would outperform and supplant their natural citizens.

>>155286893
Isn't this antithetical to the whole point of "hard work"? If you have two teams of scientists you have to choose between to fund research into stopping an epidemic, I'm pretty sure there are, to put it lightly, "some people" who'll want you to pick the team that is perceived as better.

>>155287055
That's not fair: everyone thinks that about the Polish. :^)

>>155287345
And of course the poor think what you do. Obviously, a graph on "perception" is flawed.

>>155288054
>t. Franz Boas, a non-scientist who changed the world because people are dumb

>>155287589
Agreed for the most part. Two different people might spend 4 hours a day drawing but the person who spends more of that time completing pieces, studying fundamentals, and improving what they suck at it will git gud faster compared to someone who draws the same thing day everyday.

Though there's people who just won't get things no matter how hard they try (most of which are separated from society and you'll have little contact with) and people who pick up things like it's nothing, the vast majority of people are inside the bell curve and being somewhat smarter than someone don't mean shit if you apply passion, hardwork, and rich parents.

people who say talent is real are babies only good at one thing

my "talent" knows no bounds i can do anything i set my mind too

>>155288054
I do believe that talent exist. Especially in things like sports. There are just some people that have something physically and or mentality different about them. And when you combine those inactive gifts with the desire to work hard, very few are even close to matching them. Especially when sports teams are scouting kids to become pros. They see the ones that are different.

File: 1480857266248.png (125KB, 287x281px) Image search: [Google]

125KB, 287x281px

>>155283923
I know right? As if hard-work would EVER come near talent.
The real reason tho is that it sells well because most shut-in faggots are nerd over-achievers in school that might self-insert and live their fantasy

>>155284955
>>155285052
I don't know that I'm talented, but people used to praise me all the time for being gifted and a lot of my peers admitted they looked up to me, which was pretty embarrassing 'cause I didn't give two shits about school. I really just wanted to be popular, but I was overweight and ugly. I never felt like I was really special, though. The Internet confirmed it as I became aware of a world of people so much better than me. Even if I'm in the top 2%, who cares? That's 1.4 billion people. It means, on average, there was still kids in my class smarter than me. It just feels like nothing, to me at least. I also dropped out of high school because I started to feel like classes were suddenly requiring me to try and I never went to college because it a.) sounded like a place everyone went, and they did it just to party; the scholarly allure I grew up imagining wasn't real, and the closest thing was neo-hippies learning fake science like Marx, Freud and Boas, and b.) I was afraid of being around the first group and not being accepted into their party/orgy culture due to my appearance. It felt like I'd get nothing out of college unless I had a career in mind, and I didn't, and still don't.

>>155286534
Talent vs. hard work is a very common theme in anime/manga and almost non-existent in the West.

File: Hazuki smug.jpg (130KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

130KB, 1280x720px

>>155284264
Just because you're a failure doesn't mean everyone has to be miserable, anon

Does it even matter?

The most important thing is getting things done, not some highschooler epeen contest, and people won't care much whether that comes from hard work or talent or some combination or neither.

>>155289341
>The most important thing is getting things done, not some highschooler epeen contest

Anon, do you know where we are? Have you ever been to /sci/ or /pol/? Both the boards are literally just glorified highschooler epeen contests. You can't convince a highschooler to not be a highschooler anymore. Just leave this god-awful thread while you can.

>>155283923
They like the commoner/elite dichotomy, less class mobility. Note how the wealthy and powerful are often depicted like royalty

>>155284650
Wow someone saying something positive about Air Gear besides the art.

>>155283923
> Protagonist starts being an example of hard-work > talent
> 200 chapters later
> Protagonist is suddenly eugenics
everytime

>>155288255

Why don't you link it then?

>>155289432
If at least one dumb highschooler reads this and becomes enlightened and doesn't repeat my mistakes back in highschool it'll be worth it.

>>155283923
>Why is Japan so obsessed with the idea of talent vs hard work?

it makes sense in a hard core meritocracy like japan.

In the USA where self confidence is king, we're told we're special from age 1 without working for it. Americans often are raised with the belief they have value without doing anything to earn it. So to Americans hard work is often a "concept" they hear about and "believe" in, but never really experience.

As a result plots which call to the themes relating about "hard work" fall on deaf ears. Japan doesn't believe in "self confidence" it believes in merit. Merit earned. Either through talent or hard work. People who ACTUALLY achieve are to be respected. Those who fail are to be derided for lacking both talent AND work ethic. Children in Japan are raised on the mantra that "Hard work" will overcome talent. This is to give them the hope that if they work hard enough they can achieve their dreams. Children in japan aren't congratulated from birth for being "special" but for working hard.

Its just a difference in world view. One is birthed from a country with a lot of opportunity even for fuckups to do most of what they want to in their life. While another has limited space and resources, money, time and space are at a premium, so only those who EARNS success will get it.

>>155289648
What were your mistakes? I mean, the way I see it there can be two major mistakes:
1. You fell for the natural talent meme and deemed yourself genetically inferior, and never did anything of value
2. You fell for the natural talent meme and deemed yourself genetically superior, and never did anything of value based on the assumption that you didn't have to

I mean even if natural talent plays a large role in our development as human beings or not, I just don't see any way in which deeming yourself "naturally" anything could benefit you. I have no doubt that natural talent exists, as there wouldn't be retards on the planet if if it didn't, but giving up just because the Fuhrer and your animus say that your shit is something that a true fucking loser would do.

File: 5345345345354.jpg (45KB, 293x509px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 293x509px

>>155289715
I've seen probably around 300 anime series, I've been watching Japanese children's shows for the past year, I eat my top ramen with imported chopsticks, and I've been studying Japanese with moderate success for the past three years, and Christ you are a fucking weeb.

File: 131209100348-economic-mobility-1024x576.png (18KB, 1024x576px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 1024x576px

>>155289715
We're fed the special junk here in Canada too, but ease of success is more about access to decent education and other opportunities rather than cultural virtues. You're just a weeaboo

>>155289874
Mainly I just feel embarrassed for laughing at those really try hard kids who were tutored from 8 years old or came from china for working so hard to achieve results that were only slightly better than mine instead of actually working to surpass them. It's sad to think I used to pride myself on being second best just because I thought number 1 was putting in too much effort.

>>155286815
>he doesn't
Poor soul

File: 1436493878465.png (476KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

476KB, 1280x720px

>>155289954
>>155290008

>weeb

Actually I don't particularly like Japan. I was raised told I was special, thought the world would come to me and I could do anything just by showing up. My parents fucked up. I failed so hard I ended up a fucking worthless bumb abandoned by everyone and homeless.

It was on the street I learned what "hard work" means. I worked for 2 years doing the most back breaking labor just for a place to sleep and some food. Yes there is something like indentured servitude on the streets of america for the homeless, run by the halfway houses and shelters.

I saved every penny, got hired doing jobs I would have sneared at before. Eventually caught my chance out of the gutter and never looked back. Now I know what "hard work" is, and to me anime and the japanese themes of hard work resonate.

So when I see a post like the OPs post I think "because hard work is important."

>>155289341
X post best post

>>155290898
>muh parents
I really doubt you had no control over your situation

File: 1480555328698.png (743KB, 1384x1496px) Image search: [Google]

743KB, 1384x1496px

>>155290898
>I don't particularly like Japan
Wrong board m8
>My parents fucked up
I find it hard to believe that being told you were "special" was the root cause of you becoming homeless.

>>155290443
Oh yeah I learned that lesson too, the exact same one. I had a pretty good reason to look down upon orientals too: I literally had a teacher in highschool with a PhD in education who was Chinese himself who wouldn't shut up about how American philosophy was so superior. I just figured that if I stayed the way I was in highschool, I'd be successful in college. Then once I actually got to college, I learned that highschool in America is literally just designed to make you feel good about yourself, and, even though it was a hard pill to swallow, I had to accept that those Chinese fucks were better than me in pretty much every way. The adults back in highschool just told us otherwise to kid themselves into feeling important.

However, they weren't superior to me because of genetics or any of this garbage anime philosophy, they were superior because they were constantly belted from a young age into being smart. They worked hard, and it showed, and I could catch up if I started working hard too. I hope nobody actually takes anime philosophy seriously.

>>155290008
There is definitely an effect of nature/environmentalism, but to say it's "more" about that than biology/culture is frankly wrong and one of the biggest problems with the West these past 50 years. Studies have proven that adopted children tend to have IQs more similar to their biological parents than their adoptive ones. Also, Americans have plenty of access to a decent education; how smart are they?

>>155289874
The reason it matters goes beyond some high school kid afraid of college, it's really about society and culture, a silent argument between some liberals and some conservatives.

If you created an organization with two other people that your kids will be born into as the sole members of the group, and all affairs will be decided democratically, what happens when some families have more kids than others? Naturally, those families gain greater say in the organization's affairs. Is there something wrong with that? Well, it does not matter from an individualist perspective, owing to the idea that everyone is their own person and wouldn't benefit by, say, siding with their own family over the other families.

However, what if it is then discovered that the differences in the different individuals' beliefs and voting patterns are actually semi-predetermined by their genes; and family members voting along the same lines is not a fault of their own, but no mere coincidence? Is it still in the interests of the families being out-reproduced to be a part of the organization? There is a bias against their voting tendencies and it'll only get worse over time. It may be innocent and it is not necessarily preconceived, but the less reproductive family will be dwarfed by the most reproductive family, and from the perspective of the former, the democracy - which the West touts as fair and noble - will be entirely compromised.

This is a real problem and, thanks to certain individuals, it's not one allowed to be openly discussed in the West.

>>155291040
>They worked hard, and it showed, and I could catch up if I started working hard too
Isn't that the whole point of anime morality?

>>155290898
You know, you could say that the USA is even tougher than Japan in a way. In Japan, to be successful, you must work hard and be diligent, but in the USA, to be successful, you must work hard, be diligent, AND see through all the bullshit fed to you by your parents, your teachers, your leaders, your family, your friends, etc. America is one giant bullshit exchange. Coming out on top in it is arguably very difficult if you aren't rich.

>>155291120
Depends on the anime I guess, but to me it seems like whenever there is a person that's a "tensai" or "SO SUGOOI" or something, they always just play it off as them just being born like that.

>>155291120
Not necessarily. It's possible that some of my peers in university are just geniuses, it just doesn't matter where it comes from as long as they have the ability.

File: GoodIrohasu.jpg (114KB, 787x1208px) Image search: [Google]

114KB, 787x1208px

>>155290984
>I really doubt you had no control over your situation
>I find it hard to believe that being told you were "special" was the root cause of you becoming homeless.

It created a few "unhealthy" thoughts that I didn't correct.
1) aversion to risk
2) unable or unwilling to work hard

Combined with my own issues I ended up fucked up. I didn't mean to make it sound like my parents fucked me up. They laid the cracked foundation, I built the house and never fixed it. Till it fell down then I was forced to come face to face with the corrupt foundation and repair it.

>>155291178
No idea how true this is. But there definately are a lot of men on the streets of this country who are good people who just slipped through for dumb reasons. The choice you have when you get there is to work hard to get out, or drown your sorrows in drugs and liquor. And some of those guys don't have a choice because they got their due to injuries or health reasons.

Anyway this is WAY off an anime discussion. To bring it back, I think the GANBATTE! attitude of anime is HEALTHY for kids or even people watching anime to have, it's also very japanese, which is why I think it falls flat with american audiences.

To me, the work hard themes of anime just resonate. And I'm sure they do with anyone with a serious work ethic.

You all need to watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HqV03Jouzk

ALL HAIL BRITANNIA!

>>155289621
>>155291641

File: 1480556165364.png (611KB, 780x720px) Image search: [Google]

611KB, 780x720px

>>155291564
>it's also very Japanese
You would be surprised, western children tv shows are so filled teaching morals, its just the cold-hearted nips are too focused on making their kids work hard at school instead of making them generous or love their family like western shows promote.

>>155291564
The GANBATTE part is definitely great for kids, but what kinda pisses me off is the whole slobbering over tensais in anime. There is just so much ass-kissing and boot-licking it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I hate kissing up to people and I hate it when people kiss up to me. I hate kissing up, and I like it when people treat each other as equals, even if they aren't really equals. That might just be a cultural thing though, as I'll admit that's more of a personal trait of mine. Anime could really tone down the anus-sucking though.

File: 1471515467980.png (896KB, 1136x640px) Image search: [Google]

896KB, 1136x640px

Anime teaches that no matter how hard you work, no matter how long you do it for, you will never be number one because there will always be someone with talent+hard work to take that spot from you.

A harsh lesson, but a true one.

>>155283923
Connections is the most important thing. You don't need talent or to work too hard if you know the right people.

>>155291843
There are some manga where hating that type of thing is an important point.

File: HG020901.jpg (96KB, 800x600px) Image search: [Google]

96KB, 800x600px

>>155283923

It's their society telling them to accept that no matter how hard you try you're going to be mediocre now be a wage slave in a shitty soul destroying office job for the rest of your life, only talented people can get anywhere.

>>155291853

That's the problem with the Japanese. It's true that you will never be the number one without talent, and it's also true that you will never go to the Olympics unless you're a gifted athlete, but you can still do something great with your life if you work hard (and smart), and correctly apply your talents, as limited as they might be, on a field where they're useful. Of course, this requires a degree of self-confidence, because you have to actually believe you're valuable for something (the "we're all special" western meme). But of course, if you consider yourself a failure unless you never make mistakes and are number one at everything and always win, then of course you will rage at the more talented. It's a recipe for hikkikomoris and mass suicide.

Take, for example, two western characters, Batman and Lex Luthor. While both of them have talents, both of them are also in the situation where Superman is absolutely superior to them by virtue of being an alien (purely genetic). Luthor constantly whines about how Superman is perfect without even trying, and how humanity sucks his dick (instead of sucking Lex's) and is a frustrated villain as a result. Batman doesn't care as much about popularity, and instead works hard onto protecting the Earth with his awesome buth more limited resources, and as a result not only he's almost an equal to Superman, and he can do things Superman can't. Still, it doesn't change the fact that Superman could kill him with one blow, but at least Batman doesn't give up because of that.

>>155289214
>2%
>1.4 billion people
Well, at least we know you suck at math.

>>155286139
>all those comments that are obviously poor people
Why are they so jealous of rich people working hard and smart? You can whack a pole all day, even if it's hard, it ain't gonna get you anywhere.

Being able to work hard is a talent.

>>155285710
All of mankind biggest achievements are made by people who couldn't take no for an answer and wasted their life getting it.

The lazy clever ones took on their steps and made it easy to understand because they didn't want to waste their time.

Also some of the biggest breakthroughs of mankind like the lift is just a way of getting shit done without using too much workforce.

File: image.jpg (65KB, 602x451px) Image search: [Google]

65KB, 602x451px

>>155283923
There really needs to be an anime where talent and hard work aren't mutually exclusive is a theme. It'd be refreshing to see a main character who's a talentless hard worker with this belief get devastated by a gifted and hard working rival.

>a ninja whose skilled in ninjutsu and taijutsu would fuck up Lee any day

>>155288717
There's no evidence that studying fundamentals gets you better quicker than drawing the same thing every day, /ic/

>>155289341
>The most important thing is getting things done
That's the whole god damn point, anon. You could work your ass off and at your best, but if you produce shit even though you worked your hardest, no one gives a shit. They would rather praise the person with talent because they were able to surpass your limitations by some bullshit luck.

How can that not matter?

>>155283923
Have you never spent days preparing for a test to score either average or slightly above average only to see that fuck that you know spent all weekends drinking, probaly opened a textbook once a night before the test and got a legitimately decent score?

>>155292773

The greatest prank ever played on hard work fags.

>>155292883

I was that faggot. If it makes you feel better, not knowing how to put effort onto anything bites you in the ass when you're in the adult world.

>>155291178
>but in the USA, to be successful, you must work hard, be diligent, AND see through all the bullshit fed to you by your parents, your teachers, your leaders, your family, your friends, etc. America is one giant bullshit exchange. Coming out on top in it is arguably very difficult if you aren't rich.
Holy shit this. Where is the truth? There is none. At least in Japan, you could probably trust someone.

>>155292773
3-gatsu no Lion

>>155285634
Rich people attributing their success to hard work is like One Punch Man saying that he is basically omnipotent because he did 100 situps, 100 pushups, and 10km running every day for a couple years.
So, bullshit.

Believing that someone has just a talent and you don't is a sort of psychological defence to not feel yourself as a pathetic loser.
Talent is a meme in the first place.

>>155293128
Why do you believe this

Rich people are human just like you and I

>>155291094
culture and environment are the same thing.
biology and nature are the same thing.
the words you're looking for are nature vs nurture.

>>155293260
Exactly
Rich people are humans.
So they attribute their successes to positive personal attributes and failures to external causes instead of the reality that it's an immeasurable mix of the two leaning towards personal causes for failure and external causes for success.
And since rich people are successful...yeah.

>>155293128
It's not a hard work, but a combination of many factors. You need to be in the right place at the right time

>>155293367
Obviously, but you can't necessarily go wrong with hard work is the answer. Would you rather be some lazy fuck waiting years on end for luck to make its way or work hard and perhaps have the way come quicker?

>>155293366
>So they attribute their successes to positive personal attributes and failures to external causes instead of the reality that it's an immeasurable mix of the two leaning towards personal causes for failure and external causes for success.
Poor people do the exact opposite though. What are you trying to say? That rich people are right?

>>155293008
What are you talking about? The MC of 3-gatsu is a prodigy.

>>155292954
You were that fag and other people were also that fag. Get over yourself, you're not as smart as you think you are; you just happen to be lazy as well.

>>155292883
I don't really get what you're trying to say. I used to race through my tests to see how much I could finish them while still getting perfect scores. I still remember finishing "the big trig test" in less than 5 minutes and scoring a 100% while the second fastest took well over an hour. Of course, I never studied or did homework.

Just gotta pay attention in class. How many hours does the teacher have to repeat himself saying to use the fucking quadratic formula to solve problems? How many fucking hours of my life have been wasted because of little twats who aren't paying attention? Do you know how FUCKING BORING it is to listen to someone repeat themselves for weeks on end? Just. Plug. The. Fucking. Numbers. In. The. Fucking. Formula. You don't even have to understand it (not that you could), you just have to put every god damn number on the test inside that god damn equation. Now I'm having fucking flashbacks of my math, physics and chemistry classes.

>>155293550
I don't know what poor people you're talking about
Poor people attribute their poorness to external causes, hence the poor are lazy whiners meme.
Rich people say attribute their success to positive personal qualities, because a "small" loan of a million dollars is something everyone has access to.

Talent is just an excuse for lazy fucks. Those "talented" people you see are merely hard workers who mastered their craft through the years.

>>155293207
What, wouldn't you feel literally worse if someone was just naturally better at something than you were

>>155292883
That's just luck. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. If you have some talent at retaining information when under stress or reading quickly, then it may help a bit, but at the end of the day, studying regularly was best.

>>155293691
I mean, poor people are largely right. If you happen to be poor, then chances are you aren't well educated, and your kids won't be well-educated either, in addition to simply starting out behind.

>>155293668
Trig is retardedly easy, dumbass. Just because you compare yourself to idiots doesn't mean you're any better.

>>155293550
>poor people do the exact opposite
I'm assuming you mean that they attribute their failure to personal attributes... which is as far from the truth as you can get.

Have you ever been to the ghetto?
A lot of groups of minorities have their shit together. Asians for the large part understand that they are the makers of their own success.
But most minorities here don't.
They'll blame ``whitey'' for keeping them down, instead of each other for perpetuating a culture of blaming others for their problems and despising people who don't participate in their debauchery in hopes of gaining a better life, instead reveling in people who become successful only in a way that aligns with their shite beliefs (by shitting on whitey).

>>155293734
I scored the top of my class on literally every assignment, every test, every essay, every project while skipping days, sleeping through classes, sitting in the back and playing Mega Man Zero, etc.

But sure, it was 'luck'.

>>155293808
Oh yes, your personal anecdotes generalizes for an entire fucking group of people

>>155293839
Did you drop out as soon as middle school rolled around?

>>155293567
He was on the verge of losing his rank and it's constantly brought up how every child prodigy like him became masters or something by the time it took him to get to 5-dan.

He finally started putting effort after he lost to Shimada 8-dan.

>>155293839
When you luck consistently, it's not just called "luck" anymore. That's a miracle. An act of God. Not many are granted such a thing.

>>155293839
Congratulations, your class was retarded. Does it make you feel better if you brag about yourself on an anonymous imageboard? Go to a real school.

>>155283923
Anyone who's experienced the real world knows that luck/talent > hard work

File: aoba is echhi.png (139KB, 480x357px) Image search: [Google]

139KB, 480x357px

>>155293839
You must be one of those autistic savants.

>>155293861
Just like your unsubstantiated statement generalized an entire group of fucking people too, right?
Two can play that game.

I went to a high school that was 50% black. Obviously not all of them are retards. It's simply better to assume the cynical point of view, because people who work hard and genuinely want a better life for themselves will not complain about whitey keeping them down.

>>155293886
You're literally proving his point. MC was a prodigy, so as long as he keeps trying, he'll succeed. But what about someone who just isn't good at it and won't succeed no matter how hard they try?

>>155293932
How does one beat luck/talent

>>155293808
Rich people say their success is because they're awesome and their failure is out of their hands.

Poor people say their success is because they're awesome and their failure is out of their hands.

They're basically identical except they have different failure to sweep under the rug and different successes to give themselves a pat on the back for. They use the same flimsy logic to reach the same self-serving conclusions, just about different things.

>>155293886
So he's a prodigy after all.

>>155292883
For some classes I spend weeks studying and end up rock bottom. Though I've had times where I wouldn't study until an hour or two before a final and still get around the top.

>>155293951
I didn't generalize anything, only pointed out the flaw in your reasoning. You just seem mad that a particular subset of people pissed you off back in high school. In that case, why not just head to a better environment. It's really not about minorities, it about the culture that they grow up in.

>>155293703
No, because it's not your failure anymore.

>>155293954
>>155294015
How do you know he'll succeed, manga is still going and Rei didn't have any shogi matches after losing to Shimada in anime.

>>155294019
Yeah, you fucking niggers act like every single 'test' is a damn perfect predictor of your intelligence, when it just really fucking varies on so many different factors.

>>155293868
No, I finished high school a year early and then became a full-time anime-watching, MMO-poopsocking hikikomori.

But telling my middle school classmates "mada mada da ne" after every time I showed them up like the arrogant weeb shit I was was fun.

>>155294056
>not your failure
What the fuck are you talking about? Who's failure is it then? You can't just blame nothing, it's either you blame yourself or use scapegoats.

>>155294056
I mean, depends how you look at it, it could be your failure for not having the "stuff"

>>155288520
That literally never happened.

>>155293567
The thing with 3-gatsu is that the MC is only a prodigy because he started doing that shit from an early age because his daddy was neglecting him. From an early age he read books, put in the work, did tons of practice, etc. People around him told him he was a prodigy because they didn't see the work he put in, and that's one of the main conflicts of the series.

The MC doesn't feel like he's a prodigy or particularly talented.

File: 1451337948272.gif (472KB, 500x281px) Image search: [Google]

472KB, 500x281px

Didn't you like best girl winning?

>>155284556
>>155285656
the version I heard wasfrom rommel:
the smart and ambitious you keep on your staff close to you so they don't try shit
the smart and lazy you make field commander, so they can carry out order without worry about them undermining you.
the stupid and lazy you make grunt
the stupid and ambitious you get rid of.

>>155284264
>>155284112
hard work and talent are multiplicative

you aint goin nowhere if you have zero in one of those two columns

>>155294064
You sound like a huge insufferable faggot, not to mention those fuckers who think they're "smart" but are just dumbasses anyways.

This is personal anecdotes, but Mmost actual smart people I know are hardworking and don't act like they're the hottest shit. In fact, in general, the people who brag about their shit are the people who can't actually do anything.

>I finished high school a year early
Wow, how amazingly difficult, did you get a special trophy for that, you autistic fuck?

>>155294137
>the stupid and ambitious you get rid of.
Why though?

>>155293959
Not everything is a competition.

>>155292773
As said already, Ping Pong

>>155294089
>You can't just blame nothing
Yes you can? Not everything is a blame game. Sometimes, it's just shoganai

>>155291178
USA is tougher than Japan because success is defined very differently.

In Japan, you're successful if you land a job as a salaryman or a public worker and work your dead-end office job for the rest of your life while getting slowly promoted by virtue of being there a long time and not fucking up.

A typical Japanese salaryman would not be considered successful in the US.

Unlike that other guy says, once you actually make it into employment, Japan isn't a terribly meritocratic society, getting fired is incredibly hard and promotions are mostly based on time served, not merit.

>>155294191
Get in your way, presumably

I'm fine with being mediocre. As long as I can eat and get an Internet connection, I'm not really interested in moving up in the world. To me a good life is one with a high free time/work ratio. Everything else is just accessory. I'd rather work just enough to afford an Internet connection than work more time to afford a better house and more extraneous stuff. Material wealth doesn't interest me, so I'm all good. It's a good thing too because i"m a fucking idiot and if I did try to amass material wealth I'd fuck up. I'm not talented or a hard worker.

>>155294191
The stupid and lazy will just follow order and you give them simple task.

the stupid and ambitious are more likey to fuck things up even if you try to give them a simple job.

>>155294248
Oh shit, I get it now. Oh yeah, those people get in your way like hell.

>>155294257
Seconding this.
If only there was some kind of system the lazy but content could exploit to not have to participate in the rat race normalfags do.

>>155294257
Honestly, this is a pretty good attitude to have. As long as you're enjoying life, it doesn't really matter how "good" you are (unless your identity depends on this, in which case get a therapist).

>>155294169
You are so fucking frustrated to have someone sit here and tell you they are better than average (and we're both assuming average means you) and be completely right about it.

Would it make it worse if I told you I'm also a girl?

>>155294313
It's called autismbux.

>>155294193
I bet you think money is everything too.

>>155294191
Heroes in anime are usually the stupid and ambitious ones. If you were the bad guy you would want to get rid of them fast.

>>155294313
Literally welfare?

>>155294257
I'm starting to feel like this. Keeping up and competing feels kinda pointless and is getting too tiring.

>>155293932
Anyone who's been in the real world knows that by far the biggest indicator of success is one's ability to network and form useful connections.

That's why people who waste their college years studying their asses off and staying inside are idiots. College exists for you to get to know people in your area of knowledge and start building your professional network.

File: image_8.jpg (18KB, 384x313px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 384x313px

>>155294337
No, I'm not sure why my post might have made you think that.

>>155294313
I don't mind working just enough to feed myself and pay minor bills. Ideally I'd have the absolute cheapest living space that won't kill me, but it's hard to find that because it's hard to make a profit selling insulated aluminum huts in this society.

>>155294035
You did generalize poor people. You said poor people attribute their failure to their personal attributes, which is obviously wrong when you consider what bracket of the population funds the lottery. Remember that definitions of words don't have exceptions.

I don't hate that particular subset of people--they never pissed me off or bothered me at all. It turns out that schools make a good faith effort to bring out the best in people, so most of the blacks I knew made something of themselves.

You still can't deny the existence of the majority just because of a star pupil. What you're missing is that minorities and their cultures are for the most part inseparable concepts, and to say that you could ``just head to a better environment'' reveals how much of a sheltered middle class shit you are.

If people in the inner-city ghettos had the resources to move out, they would. Ghettos are a self-perpetuating organism that discourages genuine success and promotes debauchery. The only thing that can destroy a ghetto is outside influence. To destroy ghettoes in America you need to relocate families, distribute them FAR AWAY from each other, and give them jobs that help them support themselves. But that's far too similar to communism to work here. It would have been better to just not allow them to accumulate in one place at all.

>>155294328
>being mediocre is a good attitude
That's pretty fucked up to be honest desu.

>>155294332
I know but I don't have any mental or physical disabilities I could exploit to qualify.
I wouldn't even be able to fake autism because I would need to bring it up to get seen by a doctor and then it would be obvious that I'm only pretending so no bux.

>>155284810
Shut the fuck up, you prissy little bitch.

>>155294331
You honestly just seem pretty dumb and inexperienced to me.
I'm telling you that, wow even if you're better at your peers than filling in fucking bubbles in middle school, that doesn't mean jack shit. Go to a more intellectually simulating place, and you'll find that you're dumb as rocks. Get over yourself.

>>155294191
Because stupid and ambitious people set their goals high and fuck up even harder

>t. a stupid and ambitious person who was going to become rich from the stock market but ended up losing 80% of his portfolio

>>155294458
If you are posting on this board you are qualified enough to pass the autism test.

>>155294451
Not really, most people will be mediocre and accepting that will just make the way clearer for you to find a way to be happy. It's not so much accepting your inferiority as it is not striving for superiority. Life is short and it's a waste to try and fail all the time.

Hard work beats talent, when talent doesn't work hard.

>>155294435
>You said poor people attribute their failure to their personal attributes
You know you're talking to different people, right?

File: 1461910872111.jpg (2MB, 2600x4956px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 2600x4956px

>>155294500

>>155294500
This is untrue if you've ever worked hard. It's one of the first things you'll notice is that hard work is a load of bullshit sometimes.

>>155294451
What's wrong with being mediocre? Maybe you just don't have enough talent, hard work, luck, or whatever to make it, so you just make do with what you have. Life isn't fair, but that doesn't mean you have to suffer always

>>155294435
>>155294512
But yeah, I agree with most of your points; the culture in the ghettos is pretty toxic. But again, I just don't think you can really blame anyone for this.

>>155294560

Nothing wrong with being average and content with that, but our society is hyper competitive.

>>155294607
Nobody is forcing you to participate in society.

>>155294645
You have got to be kidding with me.

Please say something else. I'll pretend I didn't see these words.

File: all out.jpg (276KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

276KB, 1280x720px

I like hard work paying off but talent dominating the competition is just on another level.

>>155294645
Yeah, but you have to, so you can feed yourself.

>>155294607
I guess. Maybe you just have to be okay with losing then. Well, that's what welfare is for.

>>155294685
I suppose suicide is always an option

>>155294512
Does it really matter?
I could pile up tons of evidence drawn from the media which would allow me to state without a shadow of doubt that a certain culture has a negative influence on its people.
But we're not a professional news organization, or debate team, and no one has the time or interest to read any of that, nor do I want to browse the record label's Top 100 Hits or World Star Hip Hop.

>>155294596
But you can blame someone for ghettoes forming. France didn't have ghettoes until the 1980s or so, when African refugees came in en masse. France didn't know what to do with them, so they placed them in suburbs. None of them integrated, and those suburbs became ghettos.

The blame for ghettos forming lies solely with the government--a reminder that ``the projects'' refer to a failed government housing project, which brought poor families in extreme close proximity to each other, fostering hate and crime.

Indeed, the government really is the problem here for starting it, and depending on the circumstances you may not blame them (I wouldn't necessarily blame France either), but it's hard to say if you can really blame anyone for the problem perpetuating itself. Maybe the media for allowing it to feed upon itself.

>>155294479
A more intellectually stimulating place like what?

I've tutored University of Toronto med students in my free time. Does that count?

There are only so many people in the world, Anon. One of them has to be the best, one has to be second, one has to be third...

Why is it so difficult for you to imagine I'm just naturally near the top, the same way I'm naturally of average height and naturally have unusually small wrists and naturally can sprint for longer than most (though not especially fast)?

It's just basic variation.

>>155294557
Reminds me of a scene in Baccano when Claire gets mad that because someone said that his superhuman acrobatics and strength is due to talent, when he claims it's not due to talent, but hard work. But then the ringmaster tells him that his hard work never goes to waste, which can be said to be a talent in and of itself.

>>155294758
Blaming is useless anyways. What matters is coming together to figure shit out, which people aren't fond of for some reason.

>>155294596
We could band together to do something about it if we wanted to, yet we haven't. It is the collective fault of all humans when something horrid like that pops up.

Pretending otherwise is just a way of perpetuating your advantages by ensuring at least some of the competition is disabled from the word 'go'.

>>155293647

No, I know I'm not smart. School just happened to be too easy and I was good for remembering stuff. If I were smart I would have been able to do something with my life. I don't know what part of my post made you think I feel smart though, success in school tests is highly overrated.

File: 1441079430800.jpg (307KB, 717x1038px) Image search: [Google]

307KB, 717x1038px

>>155294893
>Clinical depression patient No.155294893

>>155294769
Because if you think you are, you probably aren't. I'm just saying, I've met people just like you who think they're the smartest or some shit and then turn out to be a load of horseshit. They also happen to be the most annoying fucks. I know people who do way more impressive things than tutor random med students in universities much higher ranked than UoT

But sure, you're awesome. Amazing. Better than me in every single way. If that helps you sleep at night, then more power to you. Just don't cry to mommy when you realize that you're not special after all.

>>155294480
Tuition at the college for the retarded is retardedly high, but those who graduate all say it was worth it.

>>155293695

That's easily proven as false. If that were the case, the NBA would be full with all the kids that played Basketball since they're able to hold a ball. But even that doesn't guarantee you will be able to play as a pro.

>>155294838
And why does something so horrid pop up? Talent.

It's talent that's at fault. People who are superior to you in every way, shape and form.

It doesn't matter how hard you work, you'll be stuck in that dump of a place anyways.

It doesn't matter what you say, those at the top won't listen anyways.

Why don't the masses just turn on those with talent?

>>155294228

Signs of a bureaucratic society not a meritocratic one.

Asians love a bureaucracy, everyone has their place.

>>155294830
No, that's not what people aren't fond of, it's actually implementing ideas that people aren't fond of, because it usually takes a degree of work and the future is uncertain.
I won't say I particularly blame them, people generally have a lot on their plates to worry about putting a bunch of extra effort that may or may not work decades down the line, especially when it's something like reforming an entire community, something that isn't dependent on your wishes alone, but the wishes of everyone, and if someone isn't into it then the whole thing can fall apart easily just like that.

>>155294972
How are they supposed to beat the talented?

>>155294893

The fact that you say you found school to be easy tells me that you are the typical underachieving white guy, like so many others here, even myself. It's easy to think you're not smart because you see other people being even smarter and doing even better, but have you ever noticed the people in school who truly struggled with the materiale? The ones who, despite putting in hour after hour, never quite manages to catch the important points? THEY are the ones who are not smart.

>>155294893
Sorry, I'm just extremely tired of that fucking "im smart but le lazy!! xd" meme that everyone seems to claim to be. Also yeah, school tests vary by a lot, it's really no way to test intelligence. The closest honestly might be something like standardized testing or MAA competitions in terms of standard sentiments of "intelligence."

>>155294946

If I had the money to go to a shrink I would do it, though I don't think it would matter by now. I'm too old to do anything.

>>155294972
Because most people have varying degrees of talent and you'll just end up with anarchy. And if you want to go truly primal, then talent is simply natural fitness.

>>155295032

>Sorry, I'm just extremely tired of that fucking "im smart but le lazy!! xd" meme that everyone seems to claim to be

It's a nice way to rationalize yourself out of accepting that either you're just not clever enough to make it big, or that you have an excuse for not performing.

>>155294838
I suppose, but I have neither the ability nor the means to bring about change like that.

>>155294956
>universities much higher ranked than UoT
Wow, you must know a lot of people in the top ten or twenty schools in the world, then, considering UofT is pretty high up there!

Can you introduce me?

>>155295022
>The ones who, despite putting in hour after hour, never quite manages to catch the important points? THEY are the ones who are not smart.
>tfw it's you

>>155295022

Well, I'm not white, but as some anon said before, being able to punch the right numbers into an equation doesn't strike me as something smart. A machine could do it. School teaches you a lot of useless stuff.

>>155295032

I literally told I'm not smart, why do you think that I'm going for the meme? I know smart people, and I'm not one of them.

>>155284837
Stupid people who are hard working end up doing more damage than had they not done anything.

>>155292848
Is that supposed to be surprising? The person who got things done got praised, same would be true if the hard working person got things done while the talented person didn't. People are not entitled to anything because they worked hard or because they have talent.

>>155295101
It's great how you automatically assume that it's my own self-esteem issues at fault. You know that it's entirely possible that I'm just fucking tired of self-entitled millenials thinking they're oh so great when they really aren't.

>>155295151
>I literally told I'm not smart, why do you think that I'm going for the meme? I know smart people, and I'm not one of them.
I know. That's why I apologized for assuming that. Dumbass.

>>155295101
It may be a nice excuse, but it has a way of making its way around. Far too well.

Genuinely smart students might have their opportunities taken away from them because their impressionable minds believed that tripe, and thought that they could get away with minimum effort. Then, when a genuinely difficult task arrives, they're already too ingrained into their habit of not trying and become overwhelmed.

I'm graduating college soon. I've seen far too much of this for my tastes. I want to leave it all behind forever and forget they exist. It makes me sick thinking that these people get the same sheet of paper I do.

>>155295196

I'm commenting on that line of thought in general, I didn't mean to attack you, even if that is what you felt.

>>155295196
I'm pretty sure that he's explaining why the meme exists instead of criticizing you, calm down.

>>155295130
Actually yeah I know some people in the ivies, MIT/Caltech and all, but you're going to have to take my word for it because I'm not providing identifying information beyond that. You're free to assume that I'm lying, but my previous statements still stand.

>>155284264
People tend to forget that even if you're talented, if you don't hone that skill you're talented in you will never be the best at it. Someone who is not talented but trains will beat your talented ass unless you train

>>155295032

I've always thought of it like this:

Can you truly be considered a smart person if you didn't know to put in the effort required to use your own talents and do shit?

>tfw you know you have talent but are content to work a dead-end job 24~32 hours a week
>tfw you let your talent rot because deep-seated nihilism has led you to an intensely single and hobby-focused lifestyle
It's a lot easier when you have good friends to play games with and talk about manga I guess.

>>155295242
>>155295240
Oh my bad, I can't read.

>>155295286
What kind of talent are you talking about? An important one is speed at comprehension. That's impossible to beat even with hard work. You can't improve your speed of comprehension to match up no matter what you do.

>>155295293
*tips fedora

>>155294972
>And why does something so horrid pop up? Talent.
>It's talent that's at fault. People who are superior to you in every way, shape and form.
That's just not true, Anon.

Heredity doesn't explain nearly as much of the variation in financial success as your assertion would demand.

The reality is that you need a foundation to build on, and humans have evolved to exploit every chance advantage to its fullest--even, or perhaps ESPECIALLY, at the expense of others.

Your entire life is just a roll of the dice.

And in the end, death closes the curtains, and your every breath, every win, every loss amounts to nothing.

Mada mada dane. :]

>>155295238

No doubt. You see it A LOT in the typical underachieving male. A guy who was never really challenged during his schooling, who didn't have to put in tremendous effort to get top marks. He arrives in college and suddenly the level of work and dedication required changes drastically, but he doesn't change with it. He still acts as if it was high school. So he flounders his way through college, just getting by, getting mediocre grades when he could get top marks by applying himself.

>>155295317
>You can't improve your speed of comprehension to match up no matter what you do.
Yes you fucking can, have you never heard of neuroplasticity?

>>155295375
You mean that thing that stops at 25?

>>155295360
But why bother getting top marks when you all end up with the same scrap of paper that certifies you?

>>155295397
Except it literally doesn't. Go read a neuroscience paper published past 1990

>>155295282
Cool, I was supposed to go to Caltech for Bioengineering before I went hikki. Had a full scholarship offer and everything.

In the end, I decided Diogenes was too cool not to blatantly copy.

>>155295411
Because you get different intrinsic value out of it? Life isn't so strictly robotic

File: 1481899852525.jpg (48KB, 405x443px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 405x443px

>>155294769
>I've tutored University of Toronto med students in my free time. Does that count?
>med students

No, no it doesn't.

>>155295411
Are you one of those people who copied off of Chang while studying CS and can't get a job because you can't do FizzBuzz in an interview?

>>155295411
>anon doesn't know about GPA
How the fuck do you get anything done?

>>155295347
Excuse me, is your fedora on too tight?

File: 16469596569.gif (295KB, 500x400px) Image search: [Google]

295KB, 500x400px

>>155295293
>deep-seated nihilism
>didn't create his own purpose and pursue it

>>155295282
Cool, I was supposed to go to Caltech for Bioengineering before I went hikki. Had a full scholarship offer and everything.

In the end, though, I decided Diogenes was too cool not to blatantly copy.

>>155295411
It matters when getting a job. Your first job at least. Sometimes.

Otherwise, yeah, has no real purpose. You can brag about it to people I guess.

>>155295515
Don't cut yourself on that edge mate.

>>155295515
>Cool, I was supposed to go to Caltech for Bioengineering before I went hikki. Had a full scholarship offer and everything.
Talent. people. Ain't no pure hard work gonna get you that.

>>155294451
There's nothing wrong with mediocre. The overwhelming majority of people, dead or alive, were mediocre or worse. The problem is when the rich and the powerful are telling you that mediocrity is bad and that you should get that nice piece of paper with the word diploma on it if you want to be successful. THAT is fucked up. There's nothing wrong with being a plumber or a bus driver. Anyone trying to tell you otherwise has a hidden agenda or is a complete fucktard.

>>155295497
What if my own purpose in life is to just play God Hand and assorted multiplayer games with friends until I die? Checkmate, atheists.

>>155295411
It's a collective thing.
I learned this from one of my professors.
Do you know why a class at UC Berkeley is on average $3000? It's because it's worth it. Not just because ``the professors are good'' or something like that.
Think about it this way: Do you like group projects? In the highest achieving classes at my university, the answer was a unanimous 'No.' This is obviously because the quality of the partners they worked with was dramatically lower than them.
All you need to do to understand whether or not a university is good, is ask yourself "Do the students here enjoy group projects?"
At UC Berkeley, students enjoy group projects.
Everyone achieves well.

Employers hire from all universities. From the alumni, they hear the true stories. "Everyone at University I came from is a lazy sack of shit." So they value the degree from there less. The harder you as an individual work, the higher you bring up the average.
You're still expected to do extracurriculars, like contacting your professor to do research or work on projects, but those should add to your degree, not make up for it.

>>155295488
I'm actual more the emo, all-in-black-with-blood-dripping-from-wrists kind of edgelord, sorry.

>>155295452
Cool, I guess. As long as you're happy being an insufferable piece of shit, more power to you.

>>155295515
Did you ever end up going to graduate school?

>>155295458
Post your MD certificate then.

>>155295557
Talent in lying sure

>>155295586
I thought it was because the jews at the frankfurt school wanted a way to impress their ideals on young people while also charging them an exorbitant fee.

>>155295573
Literally this. Ain't nothing wrong with being average

>>155295586
So does this mean the people who get into UCB are actually smart and good willing people.

>>155295663
There is certainly an inflation of college tuition costs and a stagnation of American buying power, despite decades of no salary increases for lecturers since the multiple recessions of the last decade, but the statement still applies when considering the relative cost of tuition between universities.

>>155295691
No, they are mostly SJWs.

>>155295691
Some of them, sure. Some of them, no. It's a large public university, there's a lot of people.

>>155295586
Isn't berkeley that school where a social science professor was literally going to anti-white protests and knocking people out who tried to counter-protest lmao

>>155295691
I don't know about ``get into'', because plenty of freshmen burn out because they just weren't fit for the rigor, but the people who make it in UCB's STEM programs should all be.

>>155295735
Yes. I found it very ironic, but also considered that the engineering part of campus (the part that matters) probably didn't even know what was happening.

Hardwork and talent work a bit differently.
Hardwork doesn't mean sucess and talent doesn't mean sucess either. But if you're both talented and work hard, you'll be a successful person.

>>155295741
What's so rigorous about it? I was told it's some big shot place to get in, but I honestly am too stupid to know what goes on at UCs.

>>155294717
It's against the law to do that though.

>>155295741
STEM isn't the end-all-be-all. STEM fuckers are just as damn annoying.

>>155295778
It depends on what you mean by "success". Either one is enough to get you within the top 20%. So many people lack either. If you want to compete at the Olympic level or be a billionaire or some shit of course you're going to need both.

>>155295798
You can't deny they're talented and hard working though, can you?

>>155295798
>t. salty non stem
It's okay sweetie

>>155295826
Or simply rich enough to pay tuition.

>>155295835
Nah, I'm in STEM and I realize it fucking sucks. Humanities are so much more fun.

>inb4 youre just too retarded
I'm pretty much the average

>>155295865
>Nah, I'm in STEM and I realize it fucking sucks. Humanities are so much more fun.
Me too, but I went into what I was good at. Which was math-heavy subjects.

>>155295903
How are you so good at math-heavy subjects?

>>155295903
I just wanted a job man. But now I don't even care about money, this shit's just way too boring.

>>155295788
UCs, for those who aren't from California, are the public university system dedicated to research. Tuition is universally high, as are the sizes of campuses and classrooms. Faculty there are required to perform research or else they'll be fired. A common theme among them is a rather rigorous course material, and large classes being taught by TAs and professors who stare at the board.

But the opportunities are fucking amazing. Government contracts abound. They set the prices. They won't even look at something without a cool million behind it. Being a student at a UC is one of your best opportunities for undergraduate research opportunities.

>>155295798
STEM is just the most obvious path to success, paved with unambiguity.

>>155295612
No.

Honestly, I have a hard enough time getting through the day without killing anyone as a shut-in. If I had to deal with people like /pol/tards in real life as well as online, I'd be done by now.

>>155295916
I dunno, I chose EE because my math/physics/economics High School grades was better than my Japanese/English/Classical Studies.

If you learn to make the links between ideas, then you've got 75% of anything math-heavy sussed.

>>155295903

Using STEM for creative purposes is the best.

>>155295939
What the fuck is "success" even? You just sound like some sort of fucking shill or new HS admit. Either way, get fucked.

>>155285656
Efficiency. I'm smart and by nature lazy, but my parents are average and hard working and inculcated their values into me. Before I realized what was going on, I found myself on the other side of the world at a high ranked school as a grad student in a scholarship busting my ass in a lab doing the "proper smart person thing" when in reality and by nature I just want to leave a cushy job and relax all the time. I keep telling myself that one I finish I'm never going to work hard again, because I'm going to stop doing the "right thing" and just sell out.

If you make under $50/year USD you have no say on talent or hard work.

>>155295975
Nah dude, tertiary industry is absolute cancer.

CS graduates in the vidya industry for example make half as much money and work twice as many hours as their counterparts in primary/secondary industry.

Being some 2deep4u artfag/business major/industrial designer/marker researcher's bitchboy? It'll blow up.

>>155295973
>I dunno
Makes me mad every single time I've asked this question, thanks again for replying correctly at least.

>If you learn to make the links between ideas, then you've got 75% of anything math-heavy sussed.
How do you get the other 25% though?

>>155296027
Excellent, I just stole $51

>>155295995
Wow you sound mad.

>>155296030
>primary/secondary industry
>tertiary industry
What the? What are these things?

>>155296035
Math is literally just logic man. If you wanna git gud, just practice. If you don't care, then it doesn't matter.

>>155296030

Depends how good you are and what you end up working in. It depends what you want too. It's a creative industry, so if you're not creatively passionate when, yeah, you're not going to be interested in putting in those hours.

>>155295995
I don't know why you're here if you don't understand what success is. You're supposed to define it yourself, because everyone has different circumstances. At the very least, the path I'm talking about applies to the majority of people (according to the salary, to 75-88% of people)

But seriously, I'm graduating from a shit university with a nice job, I've been around the block a few times, and I know what I'm talking about, go fuck yourself.

>>155296109
Oh boy I just can't wait to get back to working on the latest AAA game for EA!

>>155295995
Of course he's a shill, colleges in north america and a huge amount in the UK are unironically liberal/leftist echo-chambers and used to push politcal agendas on the youth. Something absurd like 85% of all professors are left on the political spectrum.

>>155296035
Study. Y'know, the thing you went to uni to do.

The ideas you need to learn about and make connections between them become more abstract and the relationships between ideas become more complex. But you just have to persevere.

>>155296063
Tertiary industry: Retail and/or Consumer Electronics

Secondary Industry: Manufacturing.

Primary Industry: Resource gathering (mining & agriculture).

>>155296109
But if you wanted to "be creative" in the first place, why didn't you study arts/humanities in the first place?

>>155295949
That's a bit of a shame. Highschool and undergrad aren't really the best indicators of ability, there are tons of scrubs here at UoT.

>>155284126
According to anime you have classes until noon or something with a few 30-60 minute breaks then you go to a club with cute girls for a few hours and then go home by 3 or 5 or something. Seems ok to me.