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How did the "Eva's TV ending is bad" criticism

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How did the "Eva's TV ending is bad" criticism even get started? The ending is ridiculously straightforward. I can't help but feel it was some kind of plant by ADV or the international fanbase to artificially make the show a bigger deal.
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>>154946298
The ending had a generic moral. And the episode wasn't even interesting or entertaining. It's like they just gave up.
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>>154946298
Probably something about pic related

I really like it though
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>>154946298
>How did the "Eva's TV ending is bad" criticism even get started?
I think it has something do to with the fact that it was bad.
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>>154946374
>gave up

They had no time. Iirc they were always so rushed that they had to bike over the tape without review by TV in order to air a few episodes

That's how they got Kaworu's death put in there, which started a huge shitshow
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>>154946374
> wasn't even entertaining

You're seriously saying stuff like the marker-color scenes or Yoshinari's morphing animation wasn't entertaining?
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>>154946298
I liked it. Actually even more than EOE.
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>>154946298
>ADV or the international fanbase
Didn't EoE include a few frames of photos of actual death threats and angry letters sent to Anno by angry japanese fans as a reaction to the TV ending?
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>>154947070
Yeah. The vandalism on the Gainax HQ too?
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>>154947070
There were a lot more fans thanking Anno though, the "death threats" are largely exaggerated.
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>>154946374
>wasn't even interesting
If Shinji reducing his nothingness with substantive limits (all while being represented visually in an interesting way!) wasn't interesting to you, then I don't know what would be.
>>
If you were more interested in Eva's plot (i.e. the apocalyptic scenario, the conspiracies, the kaiju battles, the inter-personal politics) instead of the characters mental state (especially Shinji's), it's pretty easy why to see someone wouldn't be satisfied
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>>154946964
Theoretically, the End of Evangelion should not even be possible. A being the size of Lilith would not be supported by the Earth's crust, and cause it to crack open spewing lava everywhere.
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>>154946298
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>>154947377
that's supposing she's made out of traditional matter
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>>154947354
This is the typical defense of EoTV but it implies EoE has no substance where Shinji's internal/interpersonal problems are concerned. That's wrong.
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>>154947418
>calls a post making an honest inquiry about dislike for an episode bait
>posts a fucking jojo meme
Into the trash you go.
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>>154947354
With only two episodes left in the show you couldn't have it both ways though, you can't have Shinji fighting the Eva series while simultaneously engaging with the cast about how he treats himself. If anything, EoTV's handwave of "Instrumentality was started offscreen" makes it easier to digest.
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>>154947444
It made Shinji's problems all about women.
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>>154947506
>I can't help but feel it was some kind of plant by ADV or the international fanbase to artificially make the show a bigger deal.
>>
I liked both endings, but in different ways. The end message of all them was really the same, Shinji choose the real world over the dream. It's not a perfect correlation, but one can easily assume the events of episode 25 and 26 take place during the time Shinji is in instrumentality. It's merely a different part of it than what we saw in the movie. There really isn't any division between the ending episodes or the movie, and I don't really see why people say there is.
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>>154947444
>>154947377
EVA's plot as well as it's story and characters are interesting and are deserving of a good, worthy finish.

The story receives a very well made conclusion in both EoE and EoTV, and for that part we should be happy. EoE adds some more concrete imagery and plot development to the story, which in my opinion only strengthens the work.

I'm perfectly satisfied with both. When I watched EoTV I was stunned, and felt more could be said, but at the same time I also was certain it had done right. I felt similar with EoE.

Particularly Rei's character receives a great ending in EoE, which pleased me greatly as a fan. Both endings have the quality that they produce a story that is undeniably on point, characters that are undeniably in-character, and a conclusion that is perfectly fitting for what has been shown before. I have no quarrel with either of them, they were the endings Evangelion needed and deserved.
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>>154946298
Being straightforward doesn't make it good. Those aren't even related.
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>>154947651
Or, perhaps more accurately, Shinji choose the real himself over the self he could be in the dream. It's the same ending, just differently interpreted.
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>>154947424
I'm pretty sure angels are solid and have weight.
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>>154947444
>This is the typical defense of EoTV but it implies EoE has no substance where Shinji's internal/interpersonal problems are concerned. That's wrong.
I'm not saying it has no substance, I'm just saying not everyone cares

It's like Gundam. Not everyone cares about whiny teen psychics and quasi-philosophical magical bullshit about evolution and machines that are fueled by ghost power. Some people are more concerned about side characters, or the course of the conflit and what it means for the setting.

The Eva TV ending doubles down hard on Shinji and what's in his head, and if you don't give a shit, there's little satisfaction to be had
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>>154947761
some of them literally floated with no visible propulsion
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>>154947792
>va TV ending doubles down hard on Shinji and what's in his head, and if you don't give a shit, there's little satisfaction to be had
If you don't care for Shinjis character in any way, negatively or positively, Eva really isn't the show for you, as the entire series is almost completely focused on him. Yes, the side characters are also very important as well, but Shinjis character is an overwhelming presence in the show, and if you didn't care about him at all, what the fuck were you doing watching past the first few episodes?
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>>154947843
Oh you are right.
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>>154947672
That's definitely a point in EoE's favor, Rei was almost mistreated in the TV show. She's missing from most of the middle portion of the show, and Rei III seems like she was supposed to have an arc along with Kaworu but it never really gets off the ground.
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>>154947792
>The Eva TV ending doubles down hard on Shinji and what's in his head, and if you don't give a shit, there's little satisfaction to be had

Yeah but it would be very uncommon that anyone who actually enjoys the show wouldn't
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>>154947989
She gets the boot when Asuka arrives, which makes sense I guess, she's very reserved from everyone else and Shinji has to interact with her to start their interactions in 5&6.
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>>154947989
>>154948085
>She gets the boot when Asuka arrives,
>That's definitely a point in EoE's favor, Rei was almost mistreated in the TV show. She's missing from most of the middle portion of the show, and Rei III seems like she was supposed to have an arc along with Kaworu but it never really gets off the ground.

That's more of a meme and not a fact. Rei remains a character with a lot of screentime, and a lot of presence in the middle as well. Don't repeat it.

You may as well point out that Asuka is missing entirely from the first six episodes of the story - Rei is only missing from a single episode. Then Rei III's arc is perfectly self-contained in NGE, and expanded on in glory with EoE, where a character like Asuka becomes missing almost entirely save for a fight scene and some cameos, with no active role like Rei.
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>>154948132
I'm no Rei-fag but I think that anon was interpreting as relevance. She's just "there"
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>>154948132
>Rei III's arc is perfectly self-contained in NGE

Do you mean Rei II? Because Rei III only has 2 episodes and one of them is focused on Kaworu and the others is Rei II dying
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>>154947523
Hint: it was always relevant.
>>
Asuka missing from the first six episodes isn't a valid complaint, it's a rock solid story culminating in Shinji and Rei growing closer.
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>>154948207
Rei is extremely relevant to the story and plot, the anon in question is simply retarded.

>>154948285
Rei III is Rei II as well. Same character going through a drastic change. Shinji gets whacked over the head with the death of Kaworu, Rei gets killed and revived, Asuka gets replaced.

Shinji feared being betrayed and not being loved for who he was.
Rei feared being trapped in the limbo of life, not being able to die.
Asuka feared being replaced as a pilot.

These are the end-game changes that wreck their psyches, and in Rei and Shinji's case, forces a change, forces them to reconsider what they've been doing up until that point.
>>
How not to end a giant robot franchise: Take away the giant robots.

So, Anno gave them a giant robot movie that made people depressed.
>>
I watched the show for the first time a few months ago and I was similarly confused as to why there was this popular consensus that the ending was so wierd or bad, I thought it flowed pretty naturally from what it seemed to be building up to.

I think it did what it was trying to do better then the similar scenes in EoE, even

>>154947444
I think EoE did those elements much worse then 25 and 26 did.
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>>154948364
And Shinji's problems with Gendo or Toji weren't?
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>>154946298
Because it had no resolution on SEELE, Gendo and NERV. It left alot of plot holes wide open.
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>>154948502
>I think EoE did those elements much worse then 25 and 26 did.

EoE goes out the way to scrutinize Shinji with more precision, EoTV repeats what's already evident in the series and adds the non-solution of "just love yourself"
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>>154948557
Toji is irrelevant.

Gendo conflict is irreconcilable. He was never going to come to love Shinji, his singular devotion to Yui took priority. It's necessary that he continued to be detached from Shinji even to the very end. What's important is that Shinji moved on, which he did in EoE.
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>>154947183
This, it's literally just to make it unique. Eva is pretty fucking unpopular in the grand scheme of things and they realized they could make it seem like this massive thing by showing LOOK WE GOT DEATH THREATS OVER THE ENDING LET ME PUT THEM IN MY SHITTY ARTHOUSE MOVIE
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>>154948669
It's the most famous TV anime of all time.
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>>154948669
>just to make it unique
kill yourself philistine. Even your shitposts are in poor taste.
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>>154948706
Pretty sure it's still Doraemon
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>>154948732
I'm pretty confident that it is, though. It aired, what, 20 years ago, and people, not just mecha fans, still discuss it with the regularity of FOTM shit?
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>>154948666
How is Toji irrelevant? Shinji almost killed him, he has to be suffering over that. Instead it's never brought up again.
I would have liked a conclusion to the Gendo-Shinji relationship too, but there was nothing.
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>>154948779
In Japan, sure.
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>>154946298
>this is different than the rest, I don't get it, waah

Literally everytime any anime does something out of the norm.
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>>154948816
Shinji killed Gendo lol
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>>154948816
>it's never brought up again
That's exactly why he's irrelevant.
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>>154947183
Death threats are in the minority, who fucking knew?
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>>154948924
No he didn't.
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>>154949006
Him, Yui, or Rei

I never really understood it
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>>154946298

I liked them because it showed just how fucked he was up to this point and how having to kill Kaworu was the straw the broke him.
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>>154949040
Pretty sure it was Yui because he calls it Yui.
But me neither.
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>>154947761
>she cross throught regular metter like ether when leaving the terminal dogma. Her hand literally passes through Maya.

Seens pretty devoided of mass to me. In fact, the moment Shinji decides to revert the Instrumentality, instantly Unit 01 starts to unfuse from Lilith and the second lasrges artery in the body is the first to burst (the one in the neck). This suggest her body was in a another energy-wave-phase sustained by the At field, the moment Unit 01's at field stop sustaining that body, it becomes regular matter and starts to succumb in its own weight. Anno actually thought that pretty well in his mechanics.
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>>154948384
>>154948132
You are the cancer that ruins every single Eva thread. I hate you.
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>>154949260
You're right. I should not have doubted the Master.
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>>154949375
Please don't engage with it anon. Pleasee
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>>154946298
When I first watched the anime, I was of the opinion that EoE's ending was the actual ending, being how coherent and explanatory it was in comparison to episodes 25 and 26. But I've now come to the realization that such coherency only lends itself to appeasing the anti-art fanbase, the one that was in an uproar thanks to the initial ending of the show. Such fanbase only cares about waifuism, mecha, "fun", and clear narrative. Even if Anno wanted to make a budget-backed surrealist encapsulation of the show's last episodes, he couldn't, as he was already at the mercy of the fans, studio, and committee. So really, EoE has about as much merit to the series as the banality surrounding "Rei or Asuka?", with a chime of "Misato" somewhere in there. EoE is the Rebuilds' predecessor, and as such it's really no surprise the Rebuilds turned out the way they did - the signs were all there, after all
>>154946374
>wasn't even interesting or entertaining
Those are arbitrary elements that only exist in the viewers brain as they interpret what they're watching, and Anno as an auteur had no obligation to pander to them.
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>>154949079
Shinji isn't even that messed up by the show's standard in this. It's in EoE where we get the serious leaps of character logic, where Shinji is both depraved and bold enough to openly masturbate to someone. I get that they were aiming for a higher rating, but it just feels inconsistent with TV Shinji.
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>>154946298
It's also where "2deep4u" got started.
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>>154948669
wow literally 2deep4u. not even joking, imagine being this daft that you're unable to make basic critical or analytical thought
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>>154949375
Pretty sure that'd be the meta-shitposting Asukafags and Kaworufags. Nothing wrong with either of the posters you quoted.
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>>154950262
Pretty sure that'd be a meta-shitposting reifag he quoted. Nothing wrong with Kaworufags and Asukafags.
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>>154950262
You must be new.
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>>154950412
>>154950428

It's
"posters who talk about eva"
vs
"autistic rei-hating kaworu and asukafags"

You lose.
>>
>>154950440
That is an autistic Asuka and Kaworu hating Reifag.
>>
>>154950440
It's "posters who imply Rei is brought up as a hero of Evangelion with le beautiful message of Godpower rewards" versus "people who objectively analyze Eva"
You lose by default
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>>154950262
>>154950412
>>154950428
>>154950440
Please stop.
>>
Every fucking thread seems to devolve into these shit flinging arguments of Kaworufags, Asukafags, and Reifags. Who gives a fuck. No fan base is completely comprised of shitposters, each fan base has plenty of shitposters of their own.
>>
>>154950506
>>154950508
It's
"posters who talk about eva"
vs
"autistic rei-hating kaworu and asukafags"

You lose.

>>154950514
Tell the butthurt idiots to quit throwing a shitsperg every time Rei or Evangelion is mentioned then, these butthurt asukafags and kaworufags only come here to shitpost anyway.
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>>154950515
Asukafags and Kaworufags are eternally butthurt that Reifags kick their ass every time, and they get triggered by original NGE since they're used to spinoff fanservice pandering. Threads always go fine until they come around.

It's just one or two messed up retards though.
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>>154950594
It's "autistic posters who imply fan want bullshit Rei is brought up as a hero of Evangelion with le beautiful message of Godpower rewards" versus "people who objectively analyze Eva"
You lose by default
>>154950629
>>154950594
Samefag
>>
>>154950629
Pandering to Reifags fucked over Evangelion.
ref. the scene where Shinji almost destroys the whole world in order to save Rei, all that pandering for the sake of a shit tier ship.
>>
>>154950726
Stop being so buttthurt Asukafag. You hate Rei so much it only takes a little mention of her for you to totally lose it. Must suck being fan of Asuka.

>>154950776
Stop being so butthurt, Kaworufag. Projecting Kaworu's bad influence on Evangelion onto Rei only proves you're in a denial/bargaining phase.
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>>154950776
*pandering to Asukafags and Kaworufags

Last I checked, Anno wasn't a fan of Rei, but of Asuka with a preference for Kaworu. The world was destroyed to please Asuka and Kaworufags who wanted to see the original Evangelion ruined, to be replaced with shallow fanservice for their own characters. It explains why we got one sperging Asuka and Kaworufag ITT because they got triggered by 90's Evangelion talk. You ruin every thread you're in, consider how well it went before you decided to shit the place up.
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>>154950815
I didn't mean it. Just giving an example of how you retards sound. Every single thread is derailed with your victim complex and attacking other characters.
>>
>>154950977
>>154951019
Difference is, >>154950899 is true. >>154950776 is not and never will be.
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>>154950815
Stop being so butthurt, reifag, implying every person who dislikes you and disagrees with you is either a Kaworufag or Asukafag shows your insecurity about your favorite character. The amount of posts where you openly attack fans for things they are not responsible for also shows me that you spend most of your time here and lack basic sense of reason. It seems you're just a desperate hikikomori with no education who's wasting his life on pointless hateposting for the sake of your so-called waifu.
>>
>>154950899
>>154950594
It's amazing how your perception of reality is so distorted and delusional. You are objectively wrong in everything you say, yet you insist in keep saying anyway. You don't know the fundaments of fallacy and logic, you commit non sequitur and red harring all the fucking time and sound like you really believe all the bullshit you write.
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>>154951112
I deleted that, you made me look bad.
Anyway that particular Reifag does not need defending.
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>>154951114
>implying I give a fuck about your inane metashit

You just need to stop ruining EVA threads, and you are fooling no one by pretending you're not a butthurt asukafag or kaworufag. Because it's you every fucking time. Reminder that in this thread, and in every single thread, any hateposting is always started by either a Kaworufag or an Asukafag.
>>
>>154951112
Anno panders to himself, the "hateful" Asukafags and Kaworufags have nothing to do with it.
>>
>>154951114
Heard it before, shitposter. See >>154948411
>>154948472

where the usual Asukafag butthurt begins. Remove Asukafag, remove problem. Simple.
>>
>>154951230
They sure have a lot to do with shitposting in these threads. It has to stop. We were having great discussion until one of these retards can't take it any more and burst out in metaposting. Why does Rei trigger them so much?
>>
>>154951167
>>154951236
>You just need to stop ruining EVA threads
But it's you who does that. Pretty simple, open every last Eva thread and check it.
>And you are fooling no one by pretending you're not a butthurt asukafag or kaworufag.
>butthurt
Ah, I see projection here, becoming more and more insecure I see
>Reminder that in this thread, and in every single thread, any hateposting is always started by either a Kaworufag or an Asukafag.
So, still insecure and still blaming others of your own demise? You never change, human trash.
>>154951236
If we remove them you'll be just sitting here alone and replying to yourself. Oh, wait, that means nothing will change.
>>
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>>154948411
>>154948472
>>154948527
>>154948648
>>154948732
>>154948920
>>154950977
>>154951019
Thank you mods.
>>
>>154951270
No one is triggered by Rei.
They just called that textwalling Reifag cancer, because he is.
Last time I posted about Kaworu I had at least 3 Reifags screaming at me about how I'm not a real fan and am only in it for the yaoi. The subject matter was completely unrelated to Kawoshin too.
>>
>>154951470
>I had at least 3 Reifags screaming at me about how I'm not a real fan and am only in it for the yaoi.

Yes, because surely you're a fan of Kaworu because of his engaging character, his depth and skillful development. If you think it's just Reifags who can see through you, then you're mistaken. Everyone does, and so do I.
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>>154951230
>Anno panders to himself, the "hateful" Asukafags and Kaworufags have nothing to do with it.

Well, we know Anno is an Asukafag, and was very bitter about Rei's popularity. This is a confirmed part of EVA's history as a franchise. We also know he isn't hostile to Kaworu, but rather very warm when he refers to the character. It's not farfetched to believe that Anno looks at the fanbase and absorbs their hatred into himself, or perhaps is a part in making common asukafags and kaworufags hateful themselves. If Anno wanted to pander to these people, which he did, he'd naturally have to give them what they want. So hateful asukafags/kaworufags have been the death of evangelion's integrity.

Just imagine what we could have had instead of these bad rebuilds and the even worse spinoffs.
>>
>>154951548
Everyone knows that, it's just him who keeps denying it.
>>
>>154946298
>How did the "Eva's TV ending is bad" criticism even get started?
ecause it sucks.
>The ending is ridiculously straightforward.
It literally has the main characters monologue the message of the show and his emotional development at the viewer. Said emotional is caused literally by dreams he was having during a coma. It's retarded, and if the previous things that happend in the show weren't these obviously disjointed metaphor about the show's previous points, people would totally get it.

The problem is that despite it being the climax of Shinji's emotional arc, the same cannot be said about the arc of the PLOT OF THE FUCKING SHOW!!!
If EoE didn't exist, the show would have ended with Shinji in a coma starting to love himself, that's it.
>>
>>154951581
Actually no, you're absolutely wrong, first two Rebuilds strongly pandered to reifags.
>>
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>>154951548
Even if you weren't full of it, you'd still be wrong.
>>
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>>154951644
That's like saying NGE strongly pandered to Reifags. 1.11 is a copy, and there's more flattering content for Asuka in 2.22 than for Rei. We can't pretend 3.33 doesn't exist either, and we can't pretend Anno didn't say he didn't want to hurt Asuka fans in the interviews.
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>>154951605
You aren't wrong, but isn't there value in doing one thing and doing it well? Even if Anno denied there was a problem with EoTV, he did later admit to wanting to give up and apologize live on television later.

>>154951595
>>154951548
Eh, the mods/janitors know how to remove the asukafag and kaworufag shitposters. It's no real coincidence their posts get constantly deleted. I suspect it's because it's just one or two idiots. You aren't fooling anyone.
>>
>could use their time in a more productive or meaningful way
>spend it discussing an old anime while trying to sound smart and acting as if this show is the pinnacle of human ingenuity

>repeat this every day
>>
>>154951709
You're wrong again, Asuka is mistreated in 2.22 and is thrown into a coma rather quickly, while Rei becomes a hero of the day, gets some female empowerment, directly influence on Gendo and is put well above the whole world by the mc. This is pretty much pandering to reifags, as they said themselves in 2.22 threads previously. 3.33 didn't hurt Rei for the sake of hurting her, it did so for the plot.
>>
>>154951545
No you're very wrong. The main reason people like Kaworu is because he is the placeholder for who everyone loves most in their life. He represents unconditional love, so he's sort of a Jesus figure for some. As for me, I like Kaworu because he is not really the shoujo prince he appears to be. He's suicidal and sees no value in living, so I empathize with him. He's more like a son to me. Kaworu is also interesting in that he's more a concept than a character, the apex of Shinji's oedipus complex. But who I really love is NGE2 Kaworu, where they reveal his conflict and upbrining. Call it pandering side material if you want, it made me appreciate him more.

Satisfied, anon?
>>
If I watch Eva will I end up like the people in this thread?
>>
>>154951801
Eh, mods know perfectly well that it's just you shitlosting and derailing threads and how to ban your ass permanently but they seem to just enjoy your autistic sperging. I guess I can't help it, it's amusing to know that such fine human specimen exist ITT.
>>
>>154951801
Hey Reifag, I could literally post picture proof of you being a stalker and falseflagging. Fuck off already.
>>
>>154951826
>You're wrong again, Asuka is mistreated in 2.22 and is thrown into a coma rather quickly,

She isn't mistreated at all, she was far worse off in NGE. 2.22 removed some of her more uncomfortable parts, and her "coma" is of no fault of her own. In fact, the writers explain that the scenes make Asuka look like a good person, and 2.22 gives Asuka something she never had in NGE: positive development.

Rei was already a heroine in NGE, and very much had an influence on Gendo, moreso than in the Rebuilds as there Gendo simply abandons Rei, where in NGE he constantly worries about her.

What 3.33 did, was to sabotage Rei's character to the point where it can't be developed. It was to stunt a character that had potential. This pleases the envious asuka and kaworu fans, who got mad that Shinji tried to save Rei. Its' reflected in the movie if you pay attention.

In 2.22, Kaworu is "taking his bride back" as one puts it, and in 3.33 Asuka is angry because "Shinji didn't save her". This is all in the movie, and it does reflect the ugliness in the Asuka and Kaworu fanbase. Intentional or not, it's a perfect match.
>>
>>154951853
>He represents unconditional love, so he's sort of a Jesus figure for some.
Not the Reitard but you are wrong.

Kaworu represents the father ideal which must be killed for one to surpass the oedipal complex. The father ideal in Freudian theory is not like God as it is mainly a sexual dominant figure. As a character Kawory is pretty shallow and just an Archetype. There is no proper psyche and background for exploring.

That being said, Rei is not much better than Kaworu,anyone that isn't the autistic Reitard knows that her development is shallower than Shinji, Asuka and Misato and her importance after episode 18 is mainly shifter as a plot device too (the mother figure in Oedipan Complex).
>>
>>154952080
Fuck off Reifag. Or I'll post them.
>>
>>154952121
I literally said that in my post. I said he's the apex of Shinji's oedipus complex. I also said he's more a concept than a character.
He does represent unconditional love FYI. The nickname "Gay Space Jesus" is also attributed to him.
>>
>>154951888
Only if you choose to delude yourself. Watch it, stay strong, choose to stay objective. This is advice for life anon, never become like the raging Asuka fan who can't stand the original series because of what it was.

>>154951853
All of your reasons are fanwank though. None of the things you present are developed, rationalized or made a core of his character at any competent level.

You're only right about one thing, and that is that Kaworu is a blank character made for you to self-insert into and worship. It's the lowest form of character there is, and 3.33 among other works shows how destructive it is - the entire story, setting and even the in-universe world was destroyed so that Kaworu could have his own movie. Even then Kaworu was a worse character than in NGE.

He is not a good character, and he is a negative influence on everything, yourself included. Liking Kaworu's modern represention is equivalent with wanting to see Evangelion burn.
>>
>>154952080
>Rei was already a heroine in NGE
But that's wrong, Rei never gets positive development in NGE, nor she's relevant to show's psychic route.
>Asoka doesnt get positive development in NGE
True, nor does Misato, Rei, etc. The only one who's shown to develop is Shinji. In EoE, however, main development characters are Asoka and Shinji, and conclusion to Evagelion and the final message is based on their character development.
>>
>>154952232
His merch has "died for your sins" printed on it. And he did die for humanity.
Kaworu representing unconditional love is also a canon fact.
He also says he sees no value in living.
Not fanwank, sorry.
>>
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>>154952381
The "died for your sins" and "gay space jesus" is a western meme, propagated by idiots. Kaworu's "merchandise" was made by ADV; not gainax themselves.

So yeah, your fandom is a lie. Congratulations. By the way, if you want to consider a "Jesus Figure", consider one that's actually chained to a cross with nails and everything. Consider one that dies for everyone, and then is resurrected in corporeal form.

Guess who?
>>
>>154952471
Kaworu?
>>
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>>154952280
>But that's wrong, Rei never gets positive development in NGE, nor she's relevant to show's psychic route.
She's one of the only ones who does get positive development. Rei goes from accepting poor relationships on the basis that she doesn't know anything else, and doesn't bother to seek out. By experiencing something, and coming to terms with the fact that her relationships with others are poor, she is able to cast aside the bonds that has bound her to NERV, and move on.

Simplified of course, but true and positive.

>nor she's relevant to show's psychic route.
She quite literally drives it though, early on she's part of Shinji's psyche in train hell scenes, is a contact point for him between his father and his mother, and not only that, she drives everyone's psychological evaluation in the end.

>True, nor does Misato, Rei, etc. The only one who's shown to develop is Shinji.
Misato does move forward in her quest towards unraveling the truth, but she never does solve her problems outside getting to know them in instrumentality. A shame, but alas that's how it went.

>main development characters are Asoka and Shinji, and conclusion to Evagelion and the final message is based on their character development.
That's what shippers would have you believe. In truth Asuka is a symbol of regression into the womb as the result of a failure to develop. This is why she fails, while Shinji and Rei do not.
>>
>>154952471
I don't think of Kaworu as Jesus at all. He's much more of an Anti-Anti Christ than Jesus. I just said that most fans see him as Jesus.
>>
>>154952540
Try again.

>>154952566
You don't see him as Jesus, I don't see him as Jesus. Anti-christ is a much better role for such a character. In fact, the only ones who do seems to be a small clique who doesn't understand the character at all, much less Evangelion.
>>
>>154952541
You seem to misunderstand what positive development means in NGE.
>That's what shippers would have you believe. In truth Asuka is a symbol of regression into the womb as the result of a failure to develop. This is why she fails, while Shinji and Rei do not.
What does it have to do with shipping and did you even watch EoE? You misunderstand Eva so much it's amazing.
>>
>>154952622
Fuck off Reifag, or I'll post the screenshot where you pretended to be a Kaworufag.
>>
>>154952471
>>154952622
Rei is definitely the Jesus Figure of Evangelion, she even returns to judge the living and the dead through her own rapture of everyone's souls. Gay Space Jesus just sounds more funny tho.
>>
>>154952622
>Try again.
So, Kaworu! That's right, he even makes MC open his heart to him and later on symbolizes it for him! It's him!
>>
Glad to see any and all criticism of Evangelion is still met with at least two replies of 2deep4u.
It really takes an autist to know one, and Anno hit the nail right on the head when making evadrones. Didn't even have to pay them for it.
>>
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>>154952763
No, Kaworu is the Anti-Christ, he is the Lucifer of Evangelion. He promises nice things, but betrays Shinji and leaves his heart rended open and bleeding. He is the betrayer. They did say the devil would be handsome, so don't blame yourself for getting it wrong.

Have another try though.
>>
>>154952693
>What does it have to do with shipping and did you even watch EoE? You misunderstand Eva so much it's amazing.

You seem to misunderstand it. The explanation is simple, 99% of Evangelion and Asuka demonstrates her utter failure to develop, to make progress in any form of shape. This is why she is relegated to be a sex tool in EoE, and is written out after episode 22 while the rest continue on to episode 26.

The FINAL scene which has Asuka, Shinji and Rei in it plus Misato's Cross, is not some final message that proves Asuka's positive development, in fact it's a scene the author says can be interpreted whichever you like. The point was that Asuka couldn't move on without help, and she got it from people like Misato, Rei and even Shinji.

Shippers abuse the final scene as proof of "OTP" when it's anything but. In fact dragging shipping in is a major mistake and proves they've missed the entire point of EVA.

>You seem to misunderstand what positive development means in NGE.
Care to substantiate that? Otherwise you're wrong.
>>
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>>154952928
Here's the Reifag stalking and shitting up DISGUSTING HOMOSEXUAL /cm/ threads and admitting he only did so because he had free time.
>>
>>154953005
Here's the Reifag pretending he's a Kaworufag.
>>
>>154953005
Pretty sure that's a Kaworufag trying to falseflag again, like with the shitposting you did by spamming "homosexual shonje". Nothing of your tricks is new.
>>
>>154953066
Haha no. I could show you another screenshot; and you'll see it types exactly like he does.
>>
>>154953056
>>154953005
Kaworufag falseflag, again. But it doesn't beat the time /cm/ raided Evageeks and accused them of hiding shipping info from them.
>>
>>154953005
Wrong post? I don't see what some butthurt kaworufag phoneposter has to do with this: >>154952928
Reminder that ban evasion isn't allowed, anon.
>>
>>154953304
Why are Reifags such blatant liars? But it's okay, most anons hate you anyway.
>>
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>run out of money but still have about 2 episodes left to finish
>make slideshows and flashing images with some random ending just to have something
>people notice it's kinda shitty
>claim everything about it was actually really deep and well thought out
>people actually eat it up and start defending it
>make proper ending later in a movie with the money your franchise made

Other studios wish they could get away with it.
>>
>>154953385
>>154953304
>>154953066
Nah, pretty sure it's a Reifag. But of course you'll deny it, since you're Reifags. Types exactly like you, textwall-kun.
....But you're all liars and deniers, do what's the point.
>>
>>154949672
This guy knows what he's talking about.
>>
>>154953565
You do know all you've said is completely wrong, right?

The show was a huge success and thanks to that they got approval of extra budget to make a movie. They shifted the script of the ending to the movie, and rushed a new alternative ending for the television show. It was time constraint due to production of the movie, not a lack of money.

Please educate yourself.
>>
>>154953385
It's the same Reifag in the screenshot. I warned him I'd post them if he didn't fuck off so.
>>
>>154953738
He's objectively wrong, tough.
>>
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>>154953821
I still don't see what this has to do with >>154952928
and your screenshots are just archive shots of some posters that are arguing about Evangelion? Like we've done forever?

You're just a butthurt phoneposting kaworufag aren't you?

>>154953814
>>154953565
There's many theories and drafts about what the ending would be. One even involved monsters in an "attack on titan" like scenario.
>>
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>the ending is ridiculously straightforward
>saying this after probably watching the Director's Cut episodes

Eva fans back in 1996 were a little pissed that no context was given for the last two episodes. All thats given is "Instrumentality has begun, now lets focus on the characters." They didn't have the DC episodes or EoE until a year later. Its just anger about the in-universe explanation for how Instrumentality took place, and all the other loose ends. One of the show runners (forget his name) said that if episodes 25 had the intended footage (i.e: the first 30 minutes of EoE) and if episode 26 was the same as in the tv show, then people wouldn't be nearly as confused
>>
>>154953938
Reifag said he didn't stalk us, I said I had proof, he fucked off, Reifag starts textwalling, I said I'd post the proof if he didn't fuck off, he ignored me, so I posted them. Pretty simple.
>>
>>154946298
The TV version is a fucking mess. I hated it.
>>
>>154954115
Proof you're autistic maybe.
>>
>>154954170
t. Reifag
>>
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>>154954159
>>
>>154948589
>non-solution
Except EoE pushes that solution as well.

EoE has a happy ending, after all.
>>
>>154955044
Stop bumping shitty thread
>>
>>154950091
You know I would disagree with you but I think it's implyed Shinji finally broke and tried to an hero. He really lost everything after Rei died loosing his few schoolmates and Asuka running off. Doesn't help that he rejects Misato driving away his parental figure. Kaworu is literally the last nice thing he has and is the embodiment of his dreams unconditional love, and he ends up being forced to kill him

I feel like he does cross the line between struggling with depression and "HOLY FUCK IM DEPRESSED LET ME DIE" when Misato has to fucking drag him. Though everything after that speech is normal Shinji I'd say
>>
>>154954091
Even the OA episodes give the ending clarity fine, the stuff DC added are just minor details that flesh out the show. What DC additions impact the ending?
>>
>>154949672
Your statement about the author/audience membrane is entirely correct. Your analysis of EoE is total horseshit.
>>
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>>154954091
>need to be spoonfed

People who hate the real ending are just mad at themselves for being stupid but project it onto the show.
>>
>>154958477
I think people can be reasonably mad about the ending if you care about anyone not named Shinji
>>
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>>154958548
You just didn't get it, did you?
>>
>>154958548
> if you care about anyone not named Shinji

Who's left to care about? Aside from Rei and maybe Asuka most of the cast's character arcs are wrapped up by this point.
>>
>>154946298
>to artificially make the show a bigger deal.
more like to build hype for the movie
>>
>>154947377
but muh symbolism
>>
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>>154946964
not OP but,
Same.
>>
>>154946298
It's just that EoE is way too good in comparison.
>>
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Reminder that Shinji is canonically heterosexual. He only ever had sexual fantasies about women.
>>
>>154949672
Bullshit. If you think that EoE is simply an action waifubait movie like the rebuilds, then you also hate episodes 1~20, because they weren't as introspective as the final episodes.
>>
EoE is literally just cliffnoted TV ending with more spectacle

TV ending has more depth to it. Both compliment each other perfectly.
>>
>>154963047
> they weren't as introspective as the final episodes

I don't think that's a fair reading of the show to say that the first 20 episodes aren't as valuable as the final six.
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