Is Naruto the "smartest" shonen series of its time?

<post taking the bait>

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>>154737321

>>154737321
>Is Naruto the "edgiest" shonen series of its time?

>>154737321
Let me guess, 2 seconds after this, Naruto just shrugs off everything that guy said and starts power-hoarding by screaming really loudly?

>>154737558
CHIGAU! WHAT DO YOU KISAMA EVEN KNOW?! WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY YOUR CONCEPT OF UNDERSTANDING OTHER NINGEN IS FLAWED! ONLY BY REMOVING THE EMBERS OF SENSOU CAN SHIN NO PEACE BE ACHIEVED! etc

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>>154737558
>they've never seen the pain arc
way to miss out on the biggest deconstruction of shonen that exists

>>154737558

you guessed wrong.

>>154737759
How about you elaborate a bit on this? Cuz I'm sure as hell not going to watch 400 episodes just to check this out.

>>154737946

your loss then.

>>154737321
I swear to god if anyone unironically mentions hunter x hunter I will fucking shoot them. Its just as bad as naruto.

>>154737990
Not him, but that's definitely not a loss.

>>154737946
Just skip everything and watch the arc if you're that curious, you're not missing anything.

>>154737990
I'm glad that you have such strong feelings about your favorite series.

Fuck off narutards

>>154737990
not really

>>154737759
I read the whole thing and I'm not sure I got your point. I didn't watch the anime tough, but I think the whole arc was pretty shitty. Care to elaborate?

>>154737321
>we're not so different you and I

>>154738038
oh don't worry, this thread also happened yesterday except it was hxh instead of naruto

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>>154738038
>Its just as bad as naruto.
you mean worse*

hxh took 100 episodes to humanize its villains

>>154737946
Not really. If you really don't want to watch it :
Naruto straight up says "I don't fucking know" when the guy challenges him on his beliefs (basically telling him he's there to stop wars using nuke deterrents, and Naruto can't do shit about war so he should just STFU). Naruto loses his fighting spirit.
Love interest Naruto was oblivious to comes to try and save him, despite everyone else from the village pissing themselves in fear, hiding in the ruins, because bad guy is strong enough to solo them all (he just nuked the village, in fact).
Love interest is obviously going to die because bad guy doesn't fuck around, so Naruto tells her to gtfo, but she says she's fine with giving her life to him because she loves him. Tries to save him, but bad guy just stabs her in front of Naruto before she gets the chance to.
Naruto goes demon-mode, losing his mind, destroys almost everything, but is stopped by his father who was sealed in him because ninja are fucking wizards.
He calms down, turns back to normal gaining a strategic advantage in the process and beats the bad guy with it. At the same time he tells him his answer to the "you can't stop war lol" thing : he won't stop trying to stop it. And to break the cycle of hatred, he spares bad guy. This meme answer works because it's a reference to the book written by their common master.

>>154737321
Compared to One Piece and Bleach, it literally is.

>>154738275
What did you dislike about it? Other than the final copout which was disappointing but not as bad as people make it out to be, in my opinion.

Naruto had some really shitty parts, but I liked Pain.

>>154737321
Managed to last real fuckin long, so it's doing something right at least.

nothing smart about this series after pain arc ended it was actually pretty good intellectual series before then

>>154738038
HxH is literally the greatest shonen ever created and the only ones who think otherwise are ADHD underages who wants more flashy fights and edgy designs.

>>154738838
he said unironically

>>154738794
If Nardo ended with a pain arc that didn't bring everyone back to life, I wouldn't hate it so much.

>>154738506
well that's fucking retarded

>>154738794
Only Pain was "intellectual". Well, more like having gray morality instead of black and white.

>>154738948
Yeah, that's not a very realistic answer, more like idealism backed up by the MC sparring the bad guy after he fucked up everything, but I can accept that. Idealism isn't inherently wrong, although it should be backed up by more logical reasoning afterwards (that's where the series failed)

>>154738838
>flashy fights and edgy designs
>implying
Do you seriously think HxH is lacking in these areas? You have glowing red eyes and chains, a Cell clone with a syringe on his tail, a gay pedophile Joker clone, a fucking flying-centaur-demon-ant with an explosion sac powered by pure rage on his arm, and giant golden hyperspeed-punching bodhisattva statues plus nukes. If you want a great shounen without relying on edgy designs or flashy fights, read Yotsuba or something.

>>154737759
Hidan arc>>>>>>>>>>>>> this fucking garbage

>>154738642
It wasn't about ninjas doing ninja stuff anymore, but about dragonball power-level. Disregarding this specific criticism (since Naruto had not been about that for a time at that point) it was not bad per see, but the ending cannot just be brushed aside: it was entirely ridiculous.

It felt like the mangaka himself was not intelligent enough for the challenges of his story, and it shows elsewhere in the serie. To me, Kishimoto is dumb as brick emotionally speaking.

>>154739352

This. Shikamaru was so based.

It would be better if Ino and Choji actually did something, but I guess that's asking too much.

>>154738911
And factually

>>154737321

Absolutely.

Not because of Pain though. Fuck him.

>>154739377
>It wasn't about ninjas doing ninja stuff anymore, but about dragonball power-level
Very true. There's a big power gap starting with Pain. That's why I think this should've been end game. This raises the stakes well, but escalation after that loses all its meaning.

I can agree with you for the ending, but I don't think it's that bad, just that it could've been executed better so it doesn't feel too much of a "changed my mind LOL". I wouldn't have minded the resurrection that much if it was the last arc, so it wouldn't just be a "I wanted to keep going with the same characters" device.

>It felt like the mangaka himself was not intelligent enough for the challenges of his story, and it shows elsewhere in the serie. To me, Kishimoto is dumb as brick emotionally speaking.
This. But it shows in pretty much anything else he writes, mostly the relationships between MCs and anything involving Sasuke.
I feel like he had a good thing going with Pain. Jiraya's death and the aftermath convinced me, at least.

>>154738506
Pain should ve known better than to kill characters in front of the MC. Didnt he powered up the same way when one of his nakamas was killed in front of him as well?

>>154739820
power*, fuck my english

>>154739820
Yeah. I feel like he wanted to make it personal right there. Especially since he gave Naruto a look, like "watch this bruh" before he stabbed her.

I like how he could handle Kyubi more or less but his huge planet thing was countered by Naruto turning back to normal. It was easily one of the most strategic fights in the series.

>>154739655
Jiraya's demise was indeed a high level ninjas battle done right in my opinion. It had an almost mystical vibe that made the power level meaningful and not just raw and simplistic display of power such as chakra bomb.

Such a shame though, the manga has amazing part, I agree with you on that.

>>154739993
The whole Naruto universe is a waste, in my opinion. There's a huge emphasis on the trio of MCs, the least interesting parts of the universe. Whenever you shift away from these fuckers it gets good. Shikamaru's revenge, Jiraya and Pain, or even Kakashi's past. Even the threads are pretty fun because nobody talks about Naruto's boner for Sasuke or the bullshit serious backstories, which makes the universe a lot more fun when you see the nepotism and eugenism shit.

>>154739655
The bit exploring Jiraya's past up until his death was the best the manga ever got.

>>154741517
>sneaking up in village
>searching for intel
>showing a lot of cool jutsus
>sage mode against Akatsuki leader

Yeah it's safe to say it never got this good again

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>>154737321
The more cheese you have, the more holes you have.
The more the holes you have, the less cheese you have.
The more cheese you have, the less cheese you have.

Cheese = Naruto's "smartness" or complexity.
Holes = plotholes.

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>>154741517
;_;

>>154742794
Jiraya is the best character.

>>154738838
There's a girl who vacuums up dead bodies. Gon goes SSJ3. It fulfills all of your qualifications for bad.

>>154738838
>Edgy designs
Then you completely ignore characters like Hisoka, Kurapika, and the entire Spider gang? Fuck outta here nigga

>>154737558
>Let me guess, 2 seconds after this, Naruto just shrugs off everything that guy said and starts power-hoarding by screaming really loudly?

No, he pretty much taps out like a bitch until his secret waifu shows up, confesses, horribly fails at a rescue attempts, and then gets stabbed (fatally, in Naruto's view).

The previous rage mode peak he hit was 4 tails, but after this he jumped straight to 6 then 8 and was gonna go all the way to 9 until his ghost dad chilled him the fuck out.

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>>154737321
What was up with the cyborg shit? Back during the Pain days I could at least rationalize it as Nagato rebuilding that dude and still being able to resurrect him in the same state, but then resurrected Nagato had fucking mechanical arms. Am I to believe that the Rinnegan has the power to turn you into a fucking robot? Could Obito/Madara do that? Can Sasuke do it?

>>154737321
>shonen
>smart
pick one

>>154744052
How does Hisoka have an edgy design when he's literally dressing up a magician?

Or Kurapika with his vaguely Oriental clothing? Please enough.

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What happened to this chick? She was suppose to be Shikamaru's love interest.

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>>154745847
You just know!

>>154748248
How does he not look any older? What's his secret?

>>154747990
Skank needed to back off from Temari's turf.

>>154748346
Good Black don't crack

Is Boruto going to be too intelligent for Naruto?

>>154737419
Wouldn't that be Akame?

>>154742794
Did he ever get to fug Tsunade?

>>154748248
Samui, Tsunade, Ino. Who will he black next?

>>154737321
>underestimating Gintama

>>154748836
He traded his sperm for FAST and grip strength

There's nothing down there

>>154739655

>Rinnegan is an almost mythical power, said only to have been previously seen in the first Ninja

>lol now it's just a super sharingan

fuck everything

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>>154742794
>measured not by how they live
>just what they do before they die

>>154745847
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Asura_Path
Technically, we could have mecha Sauce, Madara or Obito, but nooo, let's forget all those powers except pull!

>>154737321
Naruto is honestly far more complex than any other shonen. The writing definitely falters at times and the art is pretty bad, but the setting, world building, magic powers, character backstories, are all top tier.

>>154749076
Kishi knew they would be too OP if they could use all the Paths.

>>154737321
A 'smarter' shonen series is getting the first movie of a new trilogy this year, Anon.

>>154737759
"deconstruction"

>>154749076
I don't think it should've been a thing at all, it's too dumb. But I guess Kishi needed a unique power for him and a way to give him three faces and six arms. Has Sasuke ever used the ninjutsu absorption?

>>154749798
In the final battle, yes.

>>154749798
I feel like the robot powers were undermined by everything else in the last arc

What's the point of firing missiles and head canons if you have other moves that do better?

Plus the chakra absorption and soul-stealing or whatever had about the same effect

>>154737321
One of the reasons a good villain is good, is because their words make sense.

>>154738506
That sounds a lot like Shirou vs Archer

>>154749198
>world building

could have been top tier but he never developed it enough so no

>ctrl + f
>0 result for "medaka"

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>>154748248

>>154737321
Nothing more cancerous than Narutards spamming their shit threads everyday with their phone.

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>>154751099

>>154750874
The difference is that Shirou never actually beats Archer in a physical fight.

>>154737321
I don't get the hate Naruto receives, especially the hate Kishi receives.

It's shonen jump. Of course bonds/friendships/idealism is going to play a massive role. That's what that shit is all about. Look at One Piss. At least watch seinen if you want fiction that makes any sense whatsoever.

>>154751099
>with their phone
I love how specific this is

The end of this arc marked Naruto's downfall.
If the ending were to be different, the whole Pain saga and the character itself would have pass as some of the greatest in the battle shonen genre.

Kishimoto should have planned things better. Forget about Obito and the retarded Kaguya and Sage thing. Make Tobi actually be Madara in Obito's body or something, dump the alliance and war arc, get the Jinchuuriki to be the spotlight and the villages working together not to defeat the enemy but to protect the Bijuus and after the Pain fight (a fight were people actually die and Naruto's character gets fucking developed) the NarutovSasuke fights takes place.

>>154751481
One day I will edit my own version of Naruto Kai where this actually happens

>>154751538
The amount of material Kishimoto skipped and didn't develop and the wasted potential literally hurts.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=pI7Jc-fSQQ8
Tell me if this isn't the best theme of Shippuden.

What went wrong with Sasuke? Kishi could definitely write edgelord antagonists. Itachi was done well, whole Pain arc is one of the best thing in the genre and I even liked characters like Hidan that got last second development before dying. Why couldn't he write Sasuke better?

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>>154751772
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHlStiZWn5E

Pain has the best theme maybe but this is the best song

>>154737321
it would've if kishimoto wasnt a dbz fanboy

>>154744796
What's funny is that Pain was able to take on the nine tails fox with 8 tails exposed, but then when Naruto calmed himself down, Pain ended up beaten by a mere ningen

>>154751890
He's Obito and Madara condensed into a few episodes at the end

Or maybe the whole point was to show how senseless Sauce was until Naruto had to repeatedly tell him that he can't just do things alone

>>154752061
It's like he lost stamina after doing a bunch of other strenuous things

>>154747990
Kishi remembered Temari was more popular.

>>154742794
Kabuto dont revived him.

>>154752218
and naruto didn't?

>>154752456
well Kyuubi did like 99% of the work against Deva Path

>>154751772
This. Was some good shit.

>>154752456
Naruto turning back to normal rendered Pain's planetary devastation useless.
And don't forget Naruto was playing 4D chess at the moment. Not only getting Sage Mode back but also turning clones into rocks and localizing Pain

I thought Hunter x Hunter was.

>>154753104
No that was yesterday.

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Oh yes, without a doubt.

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I'm a Naruto fan but something about the Naruto characters stresses me out more than any series I've read. There is a dullness to the characters and to the world, on a level that can't be ignored, and I don't know why but it makes me so uncomfortable. I don't know how to explain it, but I hate it. I know that the characters have emotions, and they feel emotions, but reading them on the page it feels more like looking at androids trying to imitate human emotion than then actually seeing human characters with souls. Does that make sense?

Actually if only Naruto didn't go full edge with sasuke and go around trying to be smart. It would've actually been a descent story. It wasn't original but it's premise was interesting enough for a time. Some ideas were good but it fell down tonshit because of bad writing and development. After fucking 500 episodes people didn't give a damn about most characters...

>>154754507
By the end everything became so convoluted that people just latched onto their waifus and husbandos and hoped for the best.

>>154754181
at the very least I feel that way when someone shows Sasuke affection

Naruto has the highest highs and the lowest lows.

>>154754181
>Kishi

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>>154753377
>Dat based Kakashi

Pic Related no Jutsu

>>154751157
Back to >>>/reddit/, Narutard.

>>154754614
I feel this way whenever Naruto or Sakura cry uncontrollably about something that shouldn't evoke that much emotion.

>>154754181
It became too popular for its own good, so Kishimoto and the editors went full cash grab mode.

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Can someone who watched naruto explain one thing to me? How in the last fight between naruto and sauce, they run out of energy/chakra at the same time? Isn't naruto supposed to have an absurd amount because of the fox and his mom blood line? Just something that irked me, don't really care too much

>>154755239
It was just convenient for it to happen because Kishi needed them to blow each other's arms off so they would have a visibly life-altering symbol of their love for each other forever.

>>154755239
In the manga Sasuke steals some using Rinnegan, don't know about the anime.

Boruto is more likable than Naruto.

Every bitch in this manga is ugly except Karin and Sarada you all are blind and have shit taste.

Kakashi should have stayed dead.

Minato and Kushina are overrated just because they died young.

Naruto's childhood wasn't that sad, he's just a narcissistic egomaniac who is unable to relate to people unless he sees them as being exactly like himself.

Hinata's childhood wasn't that sad either.

It should have been Hinata, not Neji. She's cheated death too many times. Kill her already.

Sasuke should have killed Sakura so that Naruto would have to actually have a real moral dilemma that can't be waved away with bullshit idealism.

Team Gai and InoShikaCho are the only good teams.

Lee should have been the main character.

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>>154755239
Sasuke stole chakra from all the tailed beasts. Naruto only had chakra from half a Kurama.

What happened to Madara's rinnegan after he died for reals?

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>>154755765

>>154755765
>entitled little shit over hard working underdog
>if you don't like the loli or the slut you have shit taste
>the only opinion i agree with
>I have an uncontrollable need to be contrarian
>Hated by everyone, when you're literally the vessel for anime satan
>unable to live up to your entire families expectations, being out shone by everyone around you not being sad
>kill off best girl
>actually that's another point i agree with.
>you're making some good arguments now
>i don't even disagree now wtf
wtf how could you have such shit opinions but good ones too? is your life a duality of shit and greatness?

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No pic related is.

>>154756302
Hinata and Naruto had some sad memories and hard times from childhood but I was never convinced they were actually as bad off as Kishimoto wanted me to believe. Especially after they grew past the chunin exams. Their lives were great after that.

>>154738506
>deconstruction
>shounen plot #64: protag just goes ape shit with edgy berserker power up like half the time always

kek

>>154752321
Luckily for everyone else, he was deep under the sea IIRC.

Summoned Jiraya would fuck EVERYONE up.

>>154756087
Wtf? Was Sasuke doing that?

Holy fuck, i remember back when that shit was about ninjas

Is naruto worth watching past pain arc? I dropped it right after it and i'm thinking about rewatching the whole thing, I'll probably skip the filler episodes, but still it's a lot of episodes. Also, I could just read the manga, but idk.

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JUSTICE!

>>154756693
I enjoyed the Hashirama scenes. I wish we could get Hashirama filler.

>>154756693
You should only ever watch the notable fights where they actually gave a shit. I watched an episode from the first arc of shippuden once and it was offensively bad, half the episode was the same canned animation of sakura dodging needles.

>>154756557
I don't know why someone called it a deconstruction except for the fact MC actually got his ass handed to him in a debate. Other than that it's a normal, high stakes arc that was mostly handled well. I like it.

>>154756661
Well, Naruto was originally going to be a Harry Potter clone so in the end Kishimoto was able to make that happen.

>>154756693
You did the right thing.

The upcoming arcs are trash. 4th Ninja Warrior is especially awful

>>154748801
DELET THIS

>>154756693
Kisame Vs Guy
Sasuke Vs all the Kages
Sauke Vs Danzo
Obito Vs Konan
Hashirama Vs Madara
Obito Vs Minato

Probably a lot more I've forgotten.

>>154758095
Madara Vs Guy

>>154758135
this was better in the manga desu

>>154758095
Obito vs Kakashi

>>154753377
>That art
And people say Kishi isn't one of the top manga artist out there. He's almost on Murata's level when he wants to.

>>154758185
It's decent, but I think this was one of the most overrated fights.

>>154758266
His backgrounds are indecipherable for 90% of the war arc.

His character art is okay when he tries.

>>154738485
>ywn have a femboi fuck toy

I would cry too.

>>154739377
pain arc isnt about power level, what comes after is. your either dumb as a rock or never actually watched the show. Or you really are a basic bitch newfag who is at that point were he feels it necessary to shit on populer/shounen shows because he earns his anime street cred.

>>154753377
Was that heel-turn really that bad?

I mean Sauce was always pretty insufferable so I don't see why he'd have a change of heart that quickly.

Plus we gotta hammer in this Indra reincarnate plot device

>>154759173
>heel turn
I don't think he even fully went face, but was in between until they beat Kaguya

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>>154737321

>>154758266
>people say Kishi isn't one of the top manga artist out there
Is this a joke? Have you read ten manga or something?

>>154738506
>genocidal maniac that slaughters innocents
>lol if kill you ill be just as bad as you
Yeah, no thanks, i think ill pass anon.

>>154737759
You people really need to stop using the word deconstruction when is clear you have no idea what it means

>>154760958
I dislike this trope too, but it wasn't used here. Villain had reasonably good reasons to do what he did (omelets and eggs) and not killing him was a way to break the cycle of revenge. Meaning that killing the bad guy wouldn't make MC evil, it'd mean that he'd keep rolling with the "you wronged me, so I'll get back at you and then you'll get back at me and so on" loop. MC needs to become a savior for plot reasons, so it makes sense he would spare the bad guy considering all that.

The arc is disappointing in other aspects, but this part is fine.

>>154738948
Don't worry, by the end of this garbage, this will come off as truly masterful writing in comparison.

>>154737759
Nagato was right, Naruto was wrong. Nuclear deterrent is the only true answer.

>>154761015
It's a deconstruction of the joke

>>154761186
Pretty much. In the end there's peace only because Nurutu and Sasuke are walking nukes.

>>154761186
Just because he's correct doesn't mean he's right

>>154738506
Poorly explained, missed the entire point of Naruto's response.

>>154738948
Next time try reading it instead of believing /a/

>>154758266
Who says that? he's known for being one of the best artists out there.

Newfags here know nothing but he's also amazing with panels and camera angles. Literally everyone praises the guy.

>>154761492
he can be decent but he's far from being one of the best. He has a lot of poorly done stuff and his fights lack dynamism. What I like best about him are his covers (him being good at coloring helps too) but his art was barely (if at all) average during, say, the war arc.

>>154738506
Gay as shit.

>>154756568
You are correct.

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>>154761667
He'd have fucked entire armies with his huge AoE spells.

>>154761492
> he's known for being one of the best artists out there
Not really, no.

>>154755765
Bretty good opinions, but Kakashi needs to stay alive, otherwise the Obito reveal is emotionally pointless.

>>154761806
Then he shouldn't have died.

>>154761815
True he just shouldn't have died in the first place, it should have been Iruka or someone else Naruto cared about to get the same effect.

Naruto and Bleach both had a strong impression of having good potential that they didn't live up to. One Piece has been leaning that way since the time skip, too.

>>154761877
nice opinion

>>154745847
Yes. The Rinnegan is among the more hilarious power sets of all time. "It gives you the power to have all the powers and to be six guys and to be a robot and . . ." Do not forget that this is supposedly a MAGIC EYE.

>>154756693
Yes, but not for the same reasons. The endgame of Naruto that we got is legitimately so-bad-it's-good shit. I'll admit I'm biased by having read it during the weekly chapter wait, though.

>>154761925
Okay?

I think it's shit and I am glad Kishimoto is stuck having to milk this cow. He'll never do anything as big as Naruto and will be a slave to it like Toriyama is to Dragonball.

It is beyond me how a person can make their 3 main characters so shit.