Is anime improving, stagnating, or declining, /a/?

>>154386360
>Miyazaki shitposting thread again
I don't know, let's ask my digits.

>>154386360
>>>/v/

>>154386360
Stagnating at the lowest point possible

>>154386360
Anime is eternally stagnating, it's not altered since its inception.

Improving, anyone who thinks otherwise is a /v/kid who thinks every anime back in the 90s was Cowboy Bebop or Eva.

>>154386974
This isn't true, anime was permanently altered in 2006 by the revolutionary anime Boku no Pico.

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>>154386360
Do you even have to ask?

>>154386360
Can anyone explain to me why arts should evolve?

>>154386360
it's reclining

>>154387014
>revolutionary
It stole its plot line from the Koran, hardly revolutionary.

The baseline for art/background quality is improving overall but actual animations feel lower some seasons.
The prevalence of absolutely terrible cgi hurts the medium as a whole and either needs to go or be improved immensely

>>154386360
it's been downhill since 99

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the japanese are just falling apart

>>154387095
If it doesn't you get the current modern art scene

Improving in terms of animation, declining in terms of storytelling and general emphasis on cool storylines. Most studios want to play it safe with SOL

It's doing a tad better than it was doing 5 years ago, but not by much.

>>154387232
>Most studios want to play it safe with SOL
This is so stupidly false and you'd realize it if you looked at sales data or even a seasonal chart.

Its not as bad as it could be, but there doesn't seem to be much light at the end of the tunnel unless something in the business suddenly changes.

>>154387230
We got that BECAUSE it did evolve.

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>>154387129

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>>154387230
But if it didn't evolve we would have never gotten the modern art scene, would we?

>>154387232
>I literally don't follow anime at all

>>154387345
We got it because the arts was usurped by a load of glory hogging invalids.

It's the same only different

>>154387230
I'm pretty sure it's the exact opposite.

>>154387331
Will never happen. It's now being produced by big corporations hiring and enslaving tiny studios who are happy for the scraps that the big corps throw at them to survive.

I think the reason for his general melancholy is that anime failed to establish itself as a big all ages event movie medium. Ghibli didn't become Disney Japan, and as a result you have a lot more studios fighting for progressively smaller slices of the pie. While it's true that has lead to the medium covering subject matter that he finds disgusting, it has also allowed JP studios to cover subject matter and themes that western studios didn't dare touch until Pixar exploded onto the scene.

>>154386360
It improved a lot in the mid-2000s and has been at about the same level ever since.

>>154386360
I don't really watch pre-90s anime because bluntly speaking I got into this shit for the bishoujo. So I guess I'd say it's stagnating, at absolute worst. I'd rather be enjoying it now than in 1980 because I'm being directly catered to now.

It's really only bad if you're not into cute shit or fujoshit really, since anime has become increasingly reliant either on kids and teenagers or otaku as a target demo with very little in between, with the exception of big crowd pleasers like Ghibli movies (and I guess Hosoda and Shinkai now). Anime just doesn't have that mainstream audience.

It's all good though. If it were a Western form, it would have been partway colonised by leftist ideologues by now. I want anime to stay in its niche.

>>154387421
>>154387372
The modern art scene is a direct result of people caring more about where you graduated from and who knows you than your talent or what you have to say. The guy grinding out lovingly rendered drawings of futa OCs on furaffinity has more in common with a renaissance artist than anyone chasing the limelight right now.

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>>154386360

Why are so many shows being produced per season now? Is this actually helping the scene or just needlessly punishing animators until they all die off?

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>>154387592
Agreed. Here is a little video about it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNI07egoefc

>>154387762
Divided up chink money from chink tech corps like the Alibaba Group is still in effect.
However, everyone in nip land and chink land says that the amount of animus airing each season will soon drop to a lower level again.

>>154387948
>prageru

Can't trick me.

>>154386360

Stagnating.

But it's not as bad as it is in the west, atleast honest to god good content can rise from the pits.

One-Punch Man got up there and got its own anime and a huge fanbase.

You'd never see that kind of miracle here, inorder to stay in the game here in the west you need a fuck huge toyline.

Posting in a quasi-"born in le wrong generation" thread.

>>154387592
>The modern art scene is a direct result of people caring more about where you graduated from and who knows you than your talent or what you have to say.
I'm pretty sure this has always been the case throughout history.

>>154387592
It all went downhill after Dadism and that stupid toilet art. Recently someone dropped a glove at Moma and people thought it was art. Literally, just a glove... Regarding anime, it's not stagnating. It's those who wish it to be an art that are unhappy because the current shows don't fit their criteria. Things evolve, Miyazaki did good work but I don't even like his movies. I personally would like more anime like Evageleon, in terms of heavy symbolism, chaotic personal development, and darkness. I find those elements to be artistic.

Anyway, the current season isn't bad. It's filled with shows I wouldn't normally watch and I found the whole SOL and cute girl stuff to be rather entertaining. I also liked Kuzu, that itself was a rather unique, comparably, to the rest of the field.

>>154389118
Dadaism was the peak of the 20th century art you pretentious cuck.

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>>154389251
>the peak of the 20th century art

>>154389079
Yes but elitism had more purpose and integrity than modern trendy bullshit

>>154389118
>>154389563
The toilet was a practical joke since duchamp thought they only accepted his art because of his name and was also thinking that Americans take art too seriously, so he submitted that random toilet and signed it under a pseudonym and it was rejected. When Duchamp revealed that it was his, they promptly put it up on display.

It's actually a really cool story behind that toilet.

>>154390079
Cool to a point, but ironic shitposting is still shitposting

>>154389881
Well I guess I can agree with that.

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>>154389118
>chaotic personal development, and darkness. I find those elements to be artistic.

>>154386360
I would say declining

Y'all are wrong, anime right now is on a deconstruction phase huehuehuehue

>Fans of pandering tv shows with little artistic to no artistic value try to criticize art movements
Look modern art ain't perfect, but you faggots act like you know what modern art is. Also you have zero space to criticize when most of you just consume whatever moe shit comes out that season. The fact that harem moe garbage does better than something like The Tatami Galaxy is proof you retards have no space for proper criticism of other mediums.

>>154386360
I have never watched anything from this faggot or Ghibli for that matter and never will. I don't watch anime to be inspired, I just watch it for pure entertainment and forget about my shitty life for a while.

>>154390681
But Ghibli is great escapist material.

>>154390658
>Modern art
?
LOLOLOLOL
Oh you faggots.
Modern art is just a bunch of talentless cunts finding more and more ways to say nothing in the most embarassing or offensive way possible.

>>154390223
>implying you wouldn't ironically shitpost like that if you could

>>154390658
>The fact that harem moe garbage does better than something like The Tatami Galaxy is proof you retards have no space for proper criticism of other mediums.
That doesn't even make sense. /a/ has literally zero influence on how a series performs in Japan.

>>154389118
I actually think that anime can be artistic regardless of their genre. Even SoL or Shonnen can have an artistic meaning if it is driven by a geniuenily search of truth or wanting to express something. But as Miyazaki says, to create something like that, you need a knowledge of real life and actual personal connection, which isn't the case among most otakus and /a/nons,

>>154390711
I find it boring and annoying because it panders to western audiences. Too much family friendly crap. I like crude humor and fanservice to really activate my almonds.

>>154390681
that's cool anon, must teenagers here can't accept that most people just watch it for entertain themselves.

But it can mean something else too

>>154390734
But real life is boring as fuck and just like many writers read tons of books and are inspired by them, anime makers should do that with anime

>>154390658
>The fact that harem moe garbage does better than something like The Tatami Galaxy
Again, look at sales data before repeating whatever retarded shit you heard someone say on /v/ or /tv/. The Tatami Galaxy did better than the vast majority of harems churned out each season.

>>154390755
His movies don't even pander to western audiences. You're just being obnoxious for the sake of being obnoxious.

>>154390681
>i don't ever wanna engage with a higher form of artistic works
Do you also eat McDonalds every day anon?

>>154390800
Kek, real life is boring as you want anon, and is not inspiracional faggotry. Writers read a tons of books to learn to comunicate by words, and when they are inspired by them, as most of us, is because they can apply that to something in their lifes. If you are a neet or anti-social cunt read all you want, and it'll barely mean shit to you

>>154390800
That's not what he means, and that aside anime is far and away the most incestuous "art form" I can think of.

>>154390658
Dude, my professional life has put me in contact with a lot of highbrow literature and I'm fully aware moeshit does not belong to the same category as Nabokov, but yeah, modern high culture is in fact pretty shitty when Zadie Smith is considered a literary talent. I struggle to think of any anime that actually is on the level of really great art but I will absolutely stand by the statement that Lucky Star is a subtler and more thoughtful work of fiction than anything by Paul Auster.

>>154390940
Do you know why pop and nigger music is so popular and gets so much traction? Because people like exaggeration and flamboyance. Our nature is to seek instant gratification.

Art and literature requires patience and reflection, which most people today don't have. Also demographically young people are the main target audience for consumerism. So everything is designed to pander to their limited attention span and carefree attitude.

>>154390929
Yeah because anything in real life will ever be as fun and exciting as TTGL
Yeah, obviously creators need to study the medium and then spend their lives creating more using that knowledge
>>154390937
Movies and books are a lot more incestuous

>>154390734
I think more otaku understand real life interactions than you or Miyazaki realize. People use that as a means to escape from their everyday lives. Basically, the exaggerated unrealistic way characters often act is just as much the point of that anime as the feeling of humanity a more realistically written character gives you.

These aren't necessarily always mutually exclusive styles of writing a character, but going into detail on that would take me a while.

I'm a lazy faggot, sue me.

>>154390937
Real life is boring because many people here have become nihilists. Can't be bothered to sift through piles of shit to look for gems in our anime consumption. Get with the program, enjoy the hype and then cry yourself to sleep.

Rinse and repeat.

>>154391059
Ahh, that's the thing. TTGL isn't fun and exciting just for the lulz of throwing galaxies to the enemy, we actually remember it for the feeling we get from it, the thought that we can actually achieve anything we want if we really want it, who the hell do you think I am?

>>154391091
I agree and don't. Escapism is a way to deal with the real world and it is indeed a form of expression once you create something from it. But it tends to be unoriginal coping elements that they saw in another media instead of being their own thoughts or feelings.

I gotta go, so have this cool article about the Isekai genre and escapism.
https://frogkun.com/2016/05/05/whats-the-appeal-of-those-stuck-in-another-world-fantasies-some-japanese-bloggers-explain/

>>154391121
I don't get it. Your life is boring because other people follow a certain philosophy? I don't get it. Either way, Miyazaki isn't saying what you think he's saying. Have you ever even seen a Miyazaki film? It's not about emulating reality, it's about understanding people and how they connect with one another.

>>154391295
I have seen all that this world has to offer and it is mediocre at best. That is why fantasy and escapism is so popular. We want to see what an (extra)ordinary and unique life would look like. How things would look if we had been someone else and made different set of choices.

>>154391373
These things aren't mutually exclusive. Miyazaki literally made fantasy films.
>I have seen all that this world has to offer and it is mediocre at best
dweee

>>154391042
Do you really have to call it "nigger music". It already says you are willing to write off complete genres. Fuck off.

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>>154386360
Is it like this for you as well OP?

Speaking of art, anyone has that picture of some artist dude commenting on how they don't teach how to draw anymore on art schools and when he asked graduates to draw something they literally couldn't because all they knew how to do was abstract stuff and stuff like that?

>>154391487
damn

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>>154391487
>number of 2d [...] partners
>partners
>number is rising

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Anime has been the same for the last 15 years.

>>154391573
partners is not for sexual

>>154391487
i still 'derive pleasure' in the same amount after all these years anon. Perhaps anime really is stagnating.

>>154390658
>The Tatami Galaxy
When will people stop sucking this show off. It's fucking garbage. Shitty meme show with the single most autistic "message" of all time.
Moeblob is bad, but Tatami is worse.

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Stagnating. Brighter colors doesn't equate better quality.
https://twolongfourtwitlonger.wordpress.com/2014/12/21/hxh-99-hxh-2011-btw/

>>154391280
I liked TTGL because of the visuals, music, shouting and raw hype from the characters never giving a shit and hot-blooded action
The same way Asura's Wrath was fantastic and managed to make button mashing QTEs intense

At least it's alive with plenty of different works.
Unlike European animation which is dead as fuck and a thing of the past.

>>154391487
/thread

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Improving

But /a/ and /v/ are full of autists bitter contrarian faggots.

>>154391739
What if all those works are terrible, though?

>>154391768
How is it improving?
Is Maidragon an example of improvement?

>>154391776
You might think they're terrible but plenty of people enjoy them.

>>154391814
And plenty of people enjoy The Big Bang Theory.

>>154386360
I think we can all agree that the memetic genre cycle is near completion. We have seen every deconstruction, satire, spin-off, twist, slice of everything and all forms of comedy. We are nearing the great singularity in anime. The question is what will MC be like?

>>154391814
Fair enough, but I don't feel that's enough to draw any truly positive conclusions. For example, if we were to eliminate any and all contemporary art music, leaving us with only commercial pop, plenty of people (the majority) would still enjoy music, but could you really say it's in a good state?

>>154390734
SoL yes, but Shounen no. Shounen is almost defined entirely by it's cliches and no art will come of the rampant overuse of them that Shounen have.

>>154391813
It's just a faggot who thinks titty monsters equates to a good show.
The manga is better anyway.

>>154390940
Im not saying anime can't be great art, because it is and it has been great art, im not saying moe can't be great art. I wouldn't write off whole genres. What im saying is people here sit on a high horse criticizing modern art but they themselves likely consume low tier bs stuff.

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>>154386360
no it's only getting better
proof

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It's a competitive market leaving no room for risk and creativity and therefore stagnating. It would require a crash of some sort so many of the smaller teams fall and leave the market. The remaining will then have room for creativity and earn economic profit, due to the demand of anime staying the same while the quantity supplied of anime drops attracting studios again until it returns to stagnation.
See: Economic downfall in late 90's leading to a handful of great anime in the 2000's

>>154391493
I hate pictures like that. We don't know who that dude is, we don't know what classes that guy took, we don't know how much effort he put in. All we know is his one compliant that goes viral.

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I, for one, accept our new CG overlords.

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The production side has become worse, that's for sure.

>>154392261
It shows in the quality of the content, as well.

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>>154392261
So Kyoani is literally saving anime?

>>154386360
>Is anime improving, stagnating, or declining, /a/?
Improving. They keep getting better at rendering it so that it doesn't look like shit.

>>154392374
>saving
how can kyoani save anime from itself?

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>>154386360
It's improving. There's so many cute girls now.

>>154392128
> It would require a crash of some sort
>See: Economic downfall in late 90's leading to a handful of great anime in the 2000's
You do realize the biggest financial crash since the anime industry has existed occurred less than ten years ago, right?

>>154392699
And? What were the results?

>>154392730
memes

>>154386360
Anime is getting better,not only that but we're getting more if it.I can except a few bad shows here and there for a Rakugo or a kabanari

>>154390658
>implying "moeshit" is worse than modern art
Nigger, even bottom-tier CGDCT like fucking Koufuku Graffiti has more value than "here's a shark corpse, look how deep I am."

>>154392791
>I can except a few bad shows here and there for [more bad shows]

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>/a/ hates modern art
>/a/ hates koufuku graffiti
Miyazaki was right. 4chan was a mistake.

>>154392858
The only good things about Koufuku were the Maaya Sakamoto OP and the Taberus.

>>154392797
"here's 3-5 girls in a high school, look at how cute they are."

>>154392128
The risky, creative anime in the late 90s and early 00s were because of Evangelion giving people new faith in anime, not because of economic crisis. Anime was on its deathbed when Evangelion was released, due to the economic collapse, and would have died if Evangelion didn't save it by proving anime to be viable. If we get another economical crisis, it's not guaranteed we'll get another Evangelion to save anime, it could be the end.

Animation is dead in Europe, it's worthless in USA. There is no guarantee a Japanese industry would be sustained either. In 15 years, the only animation left may be moving self inserts in Youtube videos.

>>154393094
but the industry is growing stronger despite japan being in crisis right now

>>154393154
If I learned anything from western media it's that sensationalism is always more important than fact.

>>154393154
>the industry is growing stronger
You know that's the opposite of what people in the industry are saying, right?

>>154393094
>it's worthless in USA

But plenty of cartoons come out of America that people fawn over. It had a harder time growing because networks like Nickelodeon were monopolized, but Netflix opened up a lot of chances for it. Look at Bojack Horseman and Rick and Morty.

>>154393295
Rick and Morty is from adult swim, which often gives freedom to its creator since its inception, at the cost of having very low budgets for animation, which explains why most of it shows look weird.

>>154386360
It's reclining. Luckily there is more anime than I think you could even watch all of if you lived to be 80 years old and when you add manga into the mix granted you don't switch to some other form of entertainment you will have something to watch or read for the rest of your life. Who cares if everything made today is shit when there's 50 years of material?

I think the anime could find something if they try to appeal the western audience once again.

I have no problem with watching shows with obvious western pandering. Its the same way with otaku pandering as long as the show is funny/have something interesting.

>>154390079
That's all it took for artfags to mimic and now become a major portion of the artworld today next to shit that's just used for money laundering.

>>154390658
If modern art praises the relative, is my critique and knowledge just as valid as yours?

Checkmate gaytheists.

>>154386360
I think it's been declining for awhile due to overuse of cliches and essentially cannibalizing itself. But honestly when I think of WHY someone would want to watch anime over any other entertainment form, it really is the cliches that sell it. Who watches anime for stuff like Angel's Egg? If you wanted to watch an arthouse film you'd just go watch an actual film. Anime is pretty much defined by overused cliches. It's just mostly trashy entertainment but that's what sells, no different than the majority of low-effort of Hollywood action flicks.

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>>154391091
I agree to an extent. I believe there's a spectrum along those lines of people who are completely introverted and those who fall in the middle. Those in the middle are better capable of understanding people than most people in society, mainly from their outside looking in position. These are people who can appreciate, for example, Kuzu's underlying premise. I think this is also true of most of the chans as well.

>>154389118
I didn't mean to put down those genres, because I agree with what you said. Non Non Byori is one that comes to mind right off the bat. Also, in response to your last sentence, read above. At least, that's what I see from the discussions here and elsewhere.

>>154390454
Well, I enjoy them.

>>154387008
>muh 2 levels of shading
>shit is drawn poorly more than half the time
>lazy as fuck painting style filtered backgrounds

>>154393252
what people? yamakan? miyazaki?
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2016-09-29/report-anime-industry-up-12-percent-in-2015/.107055