Why was Kill la Kill ever actually that popular among feminists?

Good question.
It was hyped, so that may have brought it to their attention. And it was not a stupid harem anime, and it had a femele protagonist.

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Because this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex-positive_feminism

Theres no love arc in it

It promotes strong female figures and leads

Its core theme throughout the show is the human body, specifically female, isn't just there to be viewed and lusted over as an object and should be taken in pride.

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A third of them loved it, a third of them hated it, the more reasonable third realize that media doesn't have to be inherently pro- or anti- feminist.

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What the fuck

>>153904815
>Maternal feminism
Ara ara, now I want to watch anime with harem feminists.

>>153903901
Strong womyn who need no men

It's all about that scene at the start of Episode 21. There's your answer

>>153904621
But pretty much every anime that /a/ loves features strong women. At the very least, the vast majority of anime discussed and watched here features almost no men. Even in harem animes, the boy MC is shown as a weak beta male while the women in his harem are all strong and actually do things with their lives.

So why don't feminists praise more anime in general if this is the case? I just watched New Game and there were like zero men in it. At the same time, women held amazing jobs like lead programmer and head artist and stuff, and they made a pretty awesome, well received video game. Did feminists cheer about that series at all or do they not really care?

>>153904815
>Variants
>Fat

kek

>>153904815
The neat thing about labels is that anyone can put one on top of their head and say "I am this now"
Now the rest of the people wearing that label can either say "fuck off no you're not" or "welcome to the fold, this label now includes you"

When a movement using a label makes inclusion a particular goal of their activities, the option to say the former is basically completely stripped from them. The result is essentially that everyone who calls themselves a feminist is a feminist, and every idea that comes from someone calling themselves a feminist is now part of the body of feminist ideas. It's a massive mixing bowl of often self-contradictory opinions and goals, ranging from extremes, outliers and every point in between.
What is important to recognize is that, while it's easier to understand things if you separate them into categories, the people actually wearing those labels don't fit perfectly into categories, nor does any one person embody every single disparate idea under the broad umbrella of the label. It can be co-opted by pretty much anybody under the sun to service their own personal beliefs, goals or values.

In that sense the label has kind of lost much of its meaning and is used more as a term of pride than as a statement of affiliation or intentions. That's also why terms like "progressive" and "social justice" have grown into vogue recently (though the obviously face the exact same co-opting problems). It's just rebranding.

>>153904621
Except that's how a good amount of anime shows and games with female protagonists are. They're sexualized but so are a shit ton of other female anime characters. And for those shows, feminists still hate it. Why is KLK any different?

>>153905291
You're looking at different groups.
Some people hate ANY sexuality in media whatsoever and criticise it no matter what, throwing around words like "the male gaze" any time a woman isn't featured in a burka.

Some like things that put out a positive image or message about bodies and sexuality. Not a "this looks good/feels good" message but a "you should take pride in this and be comfortable in your own skin" kind of message.

KlK outright has characters shouting at each other to take pride in their bodies and dismiss the gaze of onlookers. It delivers the message the second group is looking for by having Satsuki yell it to the audience, and that's literally impossible to miss.

First group never gets what they want and always complains, so their complaints become background noise. Second group gets what they want and speaks up about it. That's all.

>>153904815
Barely any of these actually matter.
Interestingly enough one of the ones with especially stupid names has a lot of substance.

And in a way this mode of communication is what they envisioned.

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Ryuuko learning to love her body was a big part of it. It's really refreshing to see women embracing their sexuality, especially in anime, where most "women" are actually virginal little girls designed to be as nonthreatening as possible. Kill la Kill was about women taking control of their sexuality, not for men, but for themselves.

It also helped that there wasn't a boy Ryuuko was fawning over the whole time. That shit is just obnoxious.

>>153905114

Yeah, and the vast majority of said strong women are either cuck's or craving some guys dick like its all they need in life or, finally, unrealistic in terms of being totally emotionless.

>>153905389
That still doesn't make any sense.

In a good amount of media with women wearing skimpy clothes the women are wearing it because they went to and because they choose to wear it. And if anyone tries to come on to them or fuck with them or comment they tell them to fuck off. Is it because KLK has sexualization as one of the main plot points of the story?

It just seems like feminists who bitch about female objectification don't wanna admit they like a show that objectifies women. You can say all this shit but that doesn't really excuse Nonon's retarded military outfit or Ryuko essentially getting raped in episode one.

>>153905487
>>153905389
literally all of this shit can be applied to female characters from one piece and a bunch of other shows. they wear skimpy shit because they can and don't care about anyone looking at them weirdly

i don't really get how far you're reaching, most female anime characters wear the shit they wear because it's the most fitting for them

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>>153905487
>It also helped that there wasn't a boy Ryuuko was fawning over the whole time

But there was.

>>153903901
why the fuck does it matter?

>>153905497
Have you ever actually watched an anime show? Most of the guys in the show crave pussy like it's the only thing they care for and a good amount of male protagonists and characters are boring lifeless husks.

>>153904621
>>153905389
>>153905487
If you actually believe that klk had any kind of body or sexuality positive message you're a moron.

Satsuki has her rant about how she doesn't care what she looks like and won't be ashamed, but literally right as she does this there's the entire crowd of mooks getting a boner over her outfit. Likewise ryuko has scenes like the fight against gamagori where she's literally whipped and tied up complete with lengthy ass slapping animation.

If you don't think these are supposed to be titiliating, you are stupid.

Likewise you could argue that klk isn't sex positive at all, on top of pervert bondage man the only other sexual characters are all goddamned rapists. In KLK sex is literally used as a weapon against the female main characters multiple times, either directly with the previously mentioned whips or psychologically as part of the bad guys attempts to control them.

The rest of the "thematic moments" like the lack of male love interests are just a result of them taking a bunch of character tropes normally reserved for men and gender flipping them. In a old school shonen fightman series the male MC is way more interested in his rival and BFF than whatever generic schoolgirl love interest with 10 seconds of screentime he may or may not have

>>153905768
I actually forgot another example of how fucking dumb you are b/c it's been a while since I saw this show.

not only is ryuko raped by the bad guys, but she's perved on or outright molested by literally every male character she's close with (just off the top of my head there's sensei, mako's famly and even her own goddamned outfit) and it's played for as some kind of joke.

In what way is this feminist? The recurring point about all the sexual stuff in klk is that the female main characters have no say in it, it's just a thing that happens to them, often as a result of them daring to challenge others/the world.

>>153905680
Its a piece of clothing
So its not offensive to waifufags and feminists

>>153905768
>>153905858
Many, many women fantasize about getting raped, just throwing that out there for you to consider.

>>153905114
Full disclosure: I've not seen New Game, I've only read a synopsis.

Those aren't women, those are little girls. According to the synopsis, those are supposed to be adult women, but they look like ten-year-olds. They probably sound and act like ten-year-olds as well. The girls are designed to be nonthreatening moeblobs that appeal to sex-shy boys. You make a good point about them being game designers, but in the end the girls are just meant to pander to a fetish. They're part of a trend in anime of infantilizing women. Girls aren't allowed to grow into womanhood; they stay in a perpetual state of prepubescence.

But this trend is also bad for men. If girls can't grow up, then neither can boys. You see it with the popularity of maid characters--boys want someone to take care of them, to serve them. What they want is a mommy, because they're unable to grow up.

This kind of went off on a tangent, but it's how I feel about the anime industry nowadays.

>>153905933
I'm not going to agree or disagree with that because it's not relevant. The point being made was that KLK had some kind of body/sex positive message and it blatantly doesn't.

It's not even the sort of twlight/50 shades rape fantasy where in the end the woman still has some twisted sense of control. It's always either an excuse for male gaze (again something done by literal characters in the show), a weird joke or both

>>153903901
keep these political correct sjw garbage threads out of /a/ please I beg you

>>153905114
>Even in harem animes, the boy MC is shown as a weak beta male while the women in his harem are all strong and actually do things with their lives.
Did you miss that part where he said "there's no love arc in it"?

>>153906092
>The point being made was that KLK had some kind of body/sex positive message and it blatantly doesn't

You're just going to have to accept that you're objectively wrong and your viewpoint is exactly what KLK criticisms

>>153906133
>if the woman isn't interested in a man then it's empowering
God forbid a strong female character has feelings for someone of the opposite sex. That's just sexist.
>>153906077
>boys want someone to take care of them, to serve them. What they want is a mommy, because they're unable to grow up.
I like how you're essentially implying that women never look for men in life that can care and protect them like a father protects his daughter. Are you serious? Why do you think the Twilight books and films were ever popular with young women?

Wanting a partner that will treat you like royalty is shit that's common in both genders, what are you even going on about?

>>153906206
>You just have to accept that you're wrong without any argument because I can't enjoy any media that doesn't conform to my political ideals

bite me

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>>153906206
>this is empowering to you

Trigger playing feminazis like fiddle.
what kind of mental gymnastics did they have to perform to believe klk was about body positivity and embracing one's sexuality?

>>153906277
And do many women like getting spanked during sex?

>>153906252
>without argument

Are you retarded. Your argument is "No, your evidence and analysis is wrong because MUH MALE GAZE"

>>153906512
Only the ones that like being degraded.

Are you implying that degradation/objectification is okay as long as it's the woman who wants to be treated like an object? That's fucking retarded.

>>153906566
So you'd deny women the freedom to pursue their natural inclination to be submissive to men because it clashes with your own ideals. That line of thinking is what makes modern feminism a joke.

It's fairly obvious that KLK is a fanservice show. There's a ton of tropes in it that are pretty common in other anime series yet no one really likes to address them. That's not even mentioning the merchandising, which in general seems to kinda destroy the entire show's apparent message of female empowerment while using my Ryuko tit mousepad.

There's nothing even inherently wrong with that, I just don't really get why people are reaching so far the prove a show aligns with their philosophy when in reality KLK is just like every other magical girl show but with more emphasis on clothing in nudity in the main story.

>>153906688
>natural inclination to be submissive to men
Not even being ironic when I say this; kill yourself.

>>153906756
>REEEEE FUCKING BIOLOGY REEEEEEEEE

You'll never be happy

>>153906803
Give me some evidence that's not anecdotal that women are naturally submissive to men.

>>153906834
They're the ones being penetrated.

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>>153903901
Some of my friends in high school were all about Tumblr shit liked it
The most that I could take away from it that relates to feminism is that despite having their asses an titties on display all the time, Ryuuko and Satsuki are hardly sexual characters at all in terms of personality, which kind of desensitized me to the fanservice and made me appreciate who they were more

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>>153905768
>Something can't have meaning and be titillating at the same time
That's like saying satire doesn't exist.

KlK DOES use themes of family, body positivism, and many aspects of female growth.
More the Growth and Family stuff.
Fuck, the final scenes of the climax were Senketsu telling Ryuko that girls have to grow out of their sailor uniforms some day and her falling into a giant, naked pile of familial love.

Those themes drive both the story, action AND the comedy of the series.
Yes, there are dudes getting boners at Satsuki as she talks about how unashamed she is. That's a joke.
Doesn't remove the meaning of her words and actions though. She herself doesn't give a fuck about their boners as long as she stands at the top. That is a message of empowerment.

Just cause the show isn't Evangelion levels of forced, pseudo-intellectual "depth" doesn't mean it doesn't have themes and meanings.

>>153906880
>you can like characters for their bodies while also liking them as characters
wow, it's like most fucking female characters in fiction

>>153906919
>i really want my favorite titty anime to also not be lampooned by feminists for being sexist

who cares. this shit is so arbitrary when you realize that most sexualized female characters also have likable and relatable personalities.

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>>153906936
I never said it was a very strong connection; just the most that I could think of

>>153906834
>their size

in animal societies dominated by females, they are usually bigger than males, human females are not

>their pelvis
to be able to have a baby past thru it, it looses from mechanical functionality

>history
most shit recorded in it was made by m ales

It was?

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>>153905768
>If you don't think these are supposed to be titiliating, you are stupid.

Of course they're supposed to be titillating. You seem to have completely missed the point. The message is that even if people are going to be looking at you as a sexual object, you can't let that stop you from being who you are. That's the lesson Ryuuko had to learn in order to use her full power. She was embarrassed because people were looking at her as a sexual object, and she couldn't use Senketsu properly. But Satsuki, who never gave a crap about what anyone thought about her, was always able to use Junketsu to its full extent. Ryuuko had to learn to be a woman who acted for herself, without consideration for what others thought of her.

There's nothing wrong with titillating, or with being titillated. Your attitude is the exact opposite of that "sex-positive feminism" that was mentioned earlier. You seem to have a really negative view of sexuality, especially of sexuality that deviates from the norm (like your bizarre hatred of bondage).

I will agree, though, that the way Mako's male relatives and the teacher acted toward Ryuuko was handled poorly. They acted inappropriately, and it was treated as normal and excusable. The show isn't perfect, but I don't really expect it to be.

The problem I see with a lot of feminists is that they expect everything to conform perfectly to their worldview. If it doesn't, they either dismiss it entirely or try to make excuses. I won't do either. Kill la Kill was feminist in a lot of ways, but it also had plenty of flaws. You can't be looking at things in black and white, as either feminist or anti-feminist. That sort of thought is simplistic and detrimental to true understanding of an issue.

>>153907060
Bonobos are a female dominated society where the females were smaller yet greater in number. And history doesn't have shit to do with anything.

>>153906992
>sex sex sex
You're really hung up on the sexual aspects of this, aren't you?
Again, not the point.

The sexual bits of the show are played up entirely for comedy after Ryuko's fight with Satsuki (i.e. Gama's masochism power).
The actual themes that go into all of the more dramatic points of the show are about either family (fucking EVERYTHING with Ragyo) or growing up in the sense of better understanding your personal identity (Ryuko's edge phase).

It's not a matter of being lampooned as feminist or sexist, it's the fact of what the show focuses on when you stop staring at the tits.
It's about a girl growing up and dealing with family and identity shit the same way FLCL is about a boy growing up and dealing with family and identity shit.

>>153905768
Fuck off, ThatAnimeSnob.

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>all this thread

We /co/ now?

>>153907181
>it's the fact of what the show focuses on when you stop staring at the tits.
Because they obviously want you to stare at the ass.

>sex sex sex, is that all that matters to you
YOU are the one talking about how the show has a message of strong sexuality and sexual comfort with ones body, you dipshit. Did you forget what you just typed out?

>>153907181
>You're really hung up on the sexual aspects of this, aren't you?
you sound like an anti-SJW faggot

>>153907247
>le crossboarder meme

>>153907300
Sex-positivism is about NOT getting hung up on sex.
It's about accepting sexuality as something that's normal or even empowering.
Like I said, AFTER the Satsuki vs. Ryuko fight the sexual stuff wasn't the focus.
That fight itself was basically they're argument of sexuality and how it doesn't fucking matter as long as they get the job done.

After that point, it becomes a lot more about personal identity and family through Ryuko's interactions with Mako's family, Satsuki, and Ragyo.
The sexual stuff is just there as a means to an end and something you should be looking past.

>>153907328
>anti-SJW faggot
What the fuck does that even mean?

>>153906077
Agreed, it was really obnoxious seeing people pretend that they were watching New Game for the STRONG FEMALE CHARACTERS when those girls would've been just at home in a highschool girl series with very few changes.

It was a good show, but it didn't have anything going for it other than cute retarded girls.

>>153907474
>What the fuck does that even mean?

/pol/ I guess? Which doesn't make sense since you're definitely edging closer to tumblr than /pol/ by a long shot. You haven't even said cuck once

>>153907474
>Sex-positivism is about NOT getting hung up on sex.
>It's about accepting sexuality as something that's normal or even empowering.
Then WHY do sex positive feminists bitch and moan about characters like Quiet, who NEEDS to wear that shit otherwise she would die, claim that she's just a piece of eye candy? If they're so uninterested and nonchalant about sexualization, they why do they constantly complain about it? Most female characters wear the shit they wear for whatever reason and not even have it as a focus.

>>153906919
this guy gets it

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>>153907149
>history doesn't have shit to do with anything.

>>153906251
>I like how you're essentially implying that women never look for men in life that can care and protect them like a father protects his daughter.

That's not healthy either. That's the flip-side of the coin: girls who want someone to take care of them, because they can't take care of themselves. But most of the anime industry is aimed at boys, so you mostly see the mommy archetype there. Twilight, on the other hand, is western YA fiction, which is heavily geared toward girls, so it makes sense you'd see the opposite: a girl who wants a daddy figure to take care of her. Twilight has been criticized for being sexist in that way. The love interest is pretty controlling of the MC. In fact, there was so much criticism along these lines that the author rewrote the book with the genders swapped.

>>153907679
>The love interest is pretty controlling of the MC.
Are you referring to Bella? She's the MC and the controlling one, not Jacob or Edward.

>this thread

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Jesus, nudity in KLK doesn't represent actual nudity.
The conflict between nudity and clothing is the one between individuality and conformism. The series is about staying true to oneself, not about body positivity or other nonsense.