Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu thread

Soon

I've been spoiled on what will happen this episode, i can't wait to see it.

>[HorribleSubs] Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu S2 - 07 [720p].mkv

>>153583550
aww shit nigga

I am not emotionally prepared to watch this episode. I'll take my time and enjoy it tomorrow.

Oh, the Miyokichi pictures on the record in the OP changed.

Holy mother of God that was good

If Kiku doesn't talk about this with Yota in the next episode I'm killing myself.

>>153584340
same

>>153584340
>>153584364
No, don't kill yourselves! Then you won't get to know how the series ends!

That ending.

>>153584882
I know, bro. I think it suddenly started to rain indoors.

did the full ED come out yet?

>>153584940

Maybe you just have a leaky roof.

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This was chilling.

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Every damn episode is a 10 out of 10.
It's like anime christmas every week.

I can't decide if Yakumo should tell Konatsu the truth or not. She deserves to know, but it would only cause her pain, I think.

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>>153582117
10/10 episode again. I love this show.

Now we wait for the full truth from Yakumo.

looking for words to describe this episode

"10/10" would be an insult

>>153585418
Go for 100/10, I know I will.

>>153585467
i keep rewatching that scene as if i was prodding an aching tooth

it doesn't stop being sad

Did the second half of the episode ever deliver.

Definitely AOTS for me

>>153585107
>spot the MC.jpg

>>153585221
>Look, your mother loved me and not your father. I'm your real daddy.

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Konatsu is the real villain of this story

>>153585692
she looks just like Sukeroku though

>>153585514
smug-ignorant-woman.jpg

What an intense scene! I thought the flashback was padding. Could've been shorter. But the first part of the ep was interesting and the ending delieved so much.

>>153585837
does he wear a spotted pantyhose

>>153585837
I want to protect that smile!

>>153585753
Yurie deserved it. Konatsu did nothing wrong.

>>153585514
>''got away with manslaughter'' grin

>>153585753
That whore deserved it.

>mfw studio DEEN
How?

>>153585933

That's no way to talk about Kiku! Kiku, is a lot of things, but a whore he is not!

>>153585924
Can't feel guilty for killing your parents if you don't know you did it

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This line makes more sense now. Now I see why Kiku is so suicidal.

>>153586043

It really is a miracle that of all the studios to save anime, it was DEEN.

>>153585914
This is such a beautiful picture.
Also full of falling autumn leaves and with a church in background, seems to imply that someone could be dying soon.

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>>153586098
>seems to imply that someone could be dying soon
No fucking shit Sherlock.

Well fuck me, this is the best episode of any show I've seen this season. How the fuck does an anime for women made by fucking DEEN manage to do this?

>lovers' double suicide

more like ''disfunctional marriage's tragic accident"

>>153586223
2 negatives make 1 positive.

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Was Miyokichi trying to stab Kiku and accidentally hit Sukeroku?

>>153586068
so she was in dark western clothes not in a white angelic kimono

what a neat feature

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God she's so fucking sexy.

I didn't want to see that scene again where that Geisha whore ruined everything.

>>153585514
Even the smug faces in this anime are 10/10. How can other anime even compete?

>>153586279
she was trying to get it on with Bon and Sukeroku intervened

maybe he was getting physical and she stabbed him in self-defence? who knows

>>153586354
They can't. They just try their best for the second place.

that knife spinning on the floor took more budget than the entirety of Konosuba S2

sasuga DEEN

>>153585753
>>153585903
>>153585933
Yurie is not a whore. She did some mistakes, but she did not deserve that. I wish I could protect her.

>>153586436
stop posting Sukeroku you're dead

>>153586436
FUCK OFF, she definitely deserved it, her death wasn't painful enough

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Was that like quadruple plot twist?

>>153586413
>make this isekai comedy series
>get a lot of money
>use thay money to make a masterpice
Just as keikaku.

>>153586294
What dark western clothes?

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>>153586436
>Yurie is not a whore.
Did you not watch S1 or something.

>>153586436
She's literally LITERALLY a dirty whore.

>>153586223
DEEN wasn't always bad. And most josei that have been adapted to anime are worth the watch.

>>153586436
A whore is a whore. She was a whore in Manchuria and she was a whore when she stalked Bon's master and she was a whore when she stalked Bon and she was a whore when she banged Shin and she was a whore when she ran off on her child and she was a whore when her child killed her.

She was a whore.

>>153586436
Nobody deserved it but she was a whore. That was her main job.

what's stalker-sensei's endgame?

>>153586279
I do not want to be fucking spoiled on this. I nicely ask manga fags to use the spoiler tag.

>>153586520
I know, I'm just memeing lad

>>153586685
Yotaro Shinjuu

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Opening changed again.

>>153586279
We will never know. The manga doesn't reveal it by the whore had a knife with her and I doubt she wanted to kill Sukeroku. She probably tried to stab Kiku and then commit suicide, but Sukeroku got in her way.

>>153586741
What do you mean? the episode already aired and it's subtitled. It's your fault if you got spoiled for getting in the thread without watching the episode.

>>153585753
I'm so confused, so was S1 ending just 'Yakumo's imagination' of the double suicide? Kinda pissy about how they handeled the plot twist

>>153587473
He was lying to Yotaro and Konatsu. Made up that story to hide what actually happened.

>>153586741
It's like Shin's father, the manga doesn't bring it up again and we'll never know what happened before Matsuda and Konatsu arrived.

>>153587473
S1 ending was Yakumo lying to Konatsu and Yota about what actually happened

>>153587473
Not Yakumo's imagination, Yakumo telling the story to Yotaro and being an unreliable narrator.

>>153587473
No, it was Yakumo's made up story to not reveal to Konatsu she killed her mother and Sukeroku died trying to save her. The shock of the whole scene and them falling caused her a mental trauma deep enough to confuse her memories. Kiku telling her the truth would have made her even worse.

>>153587473
It is said in the episode that he lied in order to protect Konatsus conscience.

I guess one could argue that there was no real foreshadowing, but i still very much liked the scene itself

So does Konatsu ever find out that she was responsible for both her parent's deaths?

Also why did Miyokichi even stab Sukeroku in the first place?

>>153587529
>>153587555
>>153587556
>>153587565
Ah, makes sense. Must of skipped over that small detail of a story-telling as opposed to a flash-back

>>153587619
>no real foreshadowing
But there was, we saw Konatsu's memory of it in the first ep and it didn't jive with Yakumo's telling.

>>153587473
Yakumo is the goat. Protects Konatsu, is the man her mother loves, etc...

I'm not really prepared for even more misogynists hating on Miyokichi now.

>>153587619
I don't remember if it happened in the broadcast version, the OVA and Director's Cut had the flashback of Konatsu watching Kiku and Sukeroku covered in blood that was shown in this episode before Yotaro arrived to Konatsu.

>>153587654
She loved Yakumo and she wanted to die with him. She probably tried to stab him, but sukeroku managed to protect yakumo. She was fucked in the head man.

>>153587736

Shitposting aside, the anime makes Miyokichi way less of a cunt than the manga.

If you hate anime Miyokichi you'd probably absolutely despise manga Miyokichi.

>>153587736
Fuck that bitch, there's nothing more pathetic and depraved than a dumb cunt lusting after a gay man.

For more than a year, since the minute I saw that whole scene happening AFTER end credits I knew, Kiku was lying.
I had a few ideas, I was expecting that Miyokichi after heating Sukeroku performing fucking Shibahama would try to kill Sukeroku, and maybe after she would kill herself.
But this... Reminds me a bit the dorama Mother, it does have a similar little secret at the end, but this is much much worse. Now I regret knowing the truth.
Poor Kiku...
I don't even know what to think about Konatsu. Her relation with her mother, I know that she hated her and how Miyokichi ended being hated by her daughter. And remembering now how Konatsu promised to kill Kiku...how he must have felt...
So tragic.

>>153587812
Kikuhiko was not gay

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>>153587473
>There must be foreshadowing for there to be a plot twist

Are you trying to say Kikuhiko isn't a good enough storyteller to weave a story as a benevolent lie without holes?

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>>153587619
>I guess one could argue that there was no real foreshadowing

Gee what the fuck was that then?

>People are actually surprised that a man who tells stories for a living would end his life story with AND THEN THEY BOTH TRIPPED OFF THE BALCONY AND DIED THE END

Pay attention you fucks, S1 ending being anti-climactic should have been a massive red flag about the reliability of Yakumo's story.

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What a nice guy.

>>153587812
Sorry but people who refer to female characters as "bitch", "slut" or "cunt" should never be taken seriously in my eyes. That's major suspect yo

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>>153587807
The anime made her more of a cunt. For example, in the manga Miyokichi watches Sukeroku's last rakugo while the anime made her leave after Kikuhiko finished

>>153587544
>It's like Shin's father, the manga doesn't bring it up again and we'll never know what happened before Matsuda and Konatsu arrived.
Actually, talking with a friend of mine who is reading the manga, she said there are hints on the story that point to someone. Under spoilers the rest, just in case:
A few days ago I was talking with a friend of mine about the show. She asked me who I think is Shin's father. My answer was the young yakuza guy, Yotaro's boss. But she thinks it's Kiku based on the following hints
>well there is simply his looks when he's older >right when she(Konatsu) announced she was pregnant, he(kiku) had a vision of shin and said "are you angry because of what I did to your daughter?" (last episode, S1)
>there is one guy at the end(stalker-kun) who pretty much flat out asks her(Konatsu) because he thinks shinnosuke looks like a descendant of "both sukeroku and yakumo"
>Me: And what does konatsu answer? I bet she denied it but whats her overall attitude?
>Friend: She just laughed and said she wouldn't say. She said all the people who would know besides her were dead and she'd take it to the grave.
>Me: If its true I do wonder why it happened. They don't have a good relationship to begin with.
>Friend: She does say she wanted it to make sure the rakugo line kept going.
And that's it. My friend translated some panels of the the scene with Kiku and Sukeroku, the one of the last episode, S1and another one when Miyo visits Konatsu. Anyway, dunno if those hints are enough, but thought of sharing it here.

>>153587654
>So does Konatsu ever find out that she was responsible for both her parent's deaths?
She is only responsible for killing Miyo.

>>153587964
Shut the fuck up, bitch. Ain't nobody care what a cunt thinks, slut.

>>153587849
Keep dreaming, hetfag.

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>>153587964

>>153587736
Miyokichi was a woman of old ways in a changing world, with no one to protect her she was doomed. Kiku also fucked up because mah rakugo. But honestly I belive that the later Yakumo was the one who screwed up the life of the three of them.

>>153587752
>>153587697
Was there?
It's too long ago that I watched the first season; I'll try to pay attention to it once I marathon the entire series after the seconde season is over.

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uh

guys

>>153588030
How did he fuck them over? He was the only innocent one.

>>153588078
He's a big guy

>>153588030
>Kiku also fucked up because mah rakugo
Every person has the right to make their choices. Miyo acted like a selfish bitch because she couldn't accept his decision and move on. Instead she went "muh revenge" and had a knife with her that night and stabbed Sukeroku, even though we will never find out what happened and this incident occurred.

>But honestly I belive that the later Yakumo was the one who screwed up the life of the three of them.
Elaborate.

>>153588078

WHY IS THIS LITTLE BOY SO LEWD

>>153587996
So you're that fag that keeps saying Yotaro's aniki fucked Konatsu. Him and Yakumo don't make sense.

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>>153585221
She seems intrigued with this glare of hate directed to her, only thing she remembers.

>>153587849
>Kikuhiko was not gay

He wasn't though, he was bi if anything. It's very clear that he did love Miyokichi but he also knew that he would eventually leave her and everything else for Rakugo.

There was a recently translated interview with the two VAs who play them and we get more insight into their relationship.

>>153588089
>He was the only innocent one.
>Tells Kiku to drop Miyokichi
>Not even helps Miyokichi after that
>Denies Yakumo's name to Sukeroku because of an old grudge

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>>153588174
What? Many here thought it was that guy.
And no, Yakumo does make sense from what my friend told me by reading the manga. Especially Konatsu's answer to stalker-kun after the time skip in this panel

>>153587996
So according to Konatsu she just laughs and says anyone who knows the identity of the father is dead?

What a slut. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree I guess.

>>153587957
Yota is too cute for this world.

>>153585753
>>153585903
After hearing Sukeroku performing FUCKING SHIBAHAMA before leaving to Tokyo with Kiku and her daughter, I think that he deserved a stab or two from her.

>>153587996
>that spoiler
If it's true it would be strange and kinda out of character for Konatsu.
Although there is the scene where he mistakes her for Miyokichi, so it might be possible... Besides there is indeed the that fact that both Kiku and the kid have grey eyes.

>>153588303
>What a slut. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree I guess.

Just goes to show you how good of a man Yota is. Anybody else would stay far away from her, yet he decided to marry the whore. He's too pure for this world.

>>153587996
>Miyo visits Konatsu.
What happened in that scene?

>>153588432
All jokes aside, if not for him, she would become a legit whore. He finally broke the curse on the family.

>>153588277
I see nothing strange. Shinnosuke has always admired Yakumo and his rakugo he takes the name Kikuhiko, has his rakugo in his iphone. In his admiration he started taking some of his traits.

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>>153587996
Wow, I'm pretty invested in the quasi father-daughter relationship between Yakumo and Konatsu and I would absolutely hate that.

>>153588269
Ahh shit. I didn't see the "Later" part of yakumo. Yeah that guy was a bitch.

>>153588504
That's why I see him as a good man. If not for him the cycle would have just repeated and Konatsu would have ended up a broken mess. She probably would have gotten pregnant from another man too.

Not to mention her son would grow up to be bitter and resentful instead of the charming qt shota his is now.

>>153588582
Kind of like Usagi Drop

>>153588303
Well, her parents are dead. And the other dead person we know after the time skip is Yakumo. So it's either him or someone else but her answer "rakugo line keep going" does hint a lot towards Yakumo

>>153588380
It would be but She pretty much says she did it for Rakugo. Also, when Yakumo tells her "I've always been waiting. I've been waiting ever since that day for you to kill me. You should hate me more and more. Because I had you I couldn't do it myself. and now I can't die because of that kid?"dunno if this another hint.

>>153588434
My friend translated it
>http://imgur.com/a/awDMq

>>153587996
Your friend exaggerated the interpretation of Higuchi's comment. Yakumo lamenting what he did to Konatsu in front of Sukeroku's ghost was Yakumo referring to how he brought her up and being a depressed old man.

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>>153588658
>spoiler
FUCK, don't even say that.

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>>153588658
>spoiler

>>153586518
She's not dirty, she takes a bath every day.

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I want the anime to air the last episode so the shitposters pushing Yakumo is Shinnosuke's dad get blown out and fuck off.

>>153588681
Thanks for the link. What a sad scene.

At least the final one between them is a nice one. Not sure if you saw the raws for the final volume.

>tfw your attention span is shit
I really want to like this series, but I'm 3 episodes into the first season and I'm not really gripped yet. Not looking for ACTION or anything but will the latter part of the show turn up the tempo, or intrigue, or anything really?

>>153588695
>Yakumo lamenting what he did to Konatsu in front of Sukeroku's ghost was Yakumo referring to how he brought her up and being a depressed old man.
This is my interpretation as well. My friend just told me scenes, she thinks that point towards this. It doesn't mean she is 100% sure either. I do believe though what Konatsu said to stalker-kun as when he asked her about Shin. We shall see it in the last episode then.

>>153588818
No problem.

Yes, I have seen them. I have all the manga volumes. It was a happy yet sad moment. Last episode will make us all cry.

>>153588934
In my opinion Higuchi was referring how Shinnosuke is Bon's grandson but Yakumo had a big influence on him, as a result he looks like a descendant of the two

>>153587915
Picking up Sukeroku after he fell. You can even see the rain falling around!

>>153589032
Higuchi is definitely proposing the hypothesis that Shin is Yakumo's kid, but he admits it's also just mainly because it would be a twist that appeals to the "storyteller" in him. The whole manga is about how stories influence, change, and warp the ways in which we see the world, so I personally take his hypothesis with a grain of salt.

>tfw Shin and Miyo would be alive if Matsuda was able to hold a kid

>>153588927
It takes a while but don't expect something huge, you will come to know this characters and then the show will slap you in the face like a bitch.

>>153589244
Miyokichi deserved to die. She did absolutely everything wrong. If she didn't die that day she'd just pull something even stupider in the future.

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>>153589244

>>153589327
No, and aside what you think of Miyokichi, Sukeroku also died that day so absolutely no.

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I guess Yakumo told this story only to Yota since it doesn't involve any blood.
But why? If he's so insistent on taking blame for their deaths, why did he tell a lie that puts even less blame on him?

>>153586062
Fuck off 3DPD.

>>153587658
>Must of
Pretty sure you're just an idiot.

>>153589599
Because it doesn't put any blame in Konatsu.

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I didn't realize how much I had forgotten of last season until this episode. Watching Sukeroku perform that story again almost made me tear up.

>>153589404
>Sukeroku gets light stab wound fixed by a quick stitching
>Miyokichi commits seppuku
Best reality.

>>153589599
Because Konatsu was listening and he didn't want to tell her that she pushed her own mother to her death?

>>153589885
He could have said he struggled with Miyokichi and pushed her off.
But the whole thing, specially the human ladder, makes him look more like an (attempted) hero.

Are the blu-rays for season 1 ever being uploaded?

>>153587957
I actually like their relationship a lot and how it's progressed. She went from tolerating him for the sake of their "marriage" to actually being his legit wife. Before she would have just shoved him off.

>>153590100
I don't think she was just tolerating him at the beginning. It's her nature to be cold, but she's always cared about him.

I know I'm late but that change in the OP a few episodes ago where Sukeroku's eyes were a demonic red actually scared me. Jesus.

Also I've fallen in love with the OP. I wasn't sure about it at first but the visuals and song are so perfect.

>Be some prostitute
>Fall in love with an eminent rakugo star on the basis that he might make distract you from how worthless my life is
>He dumps me
>Settle for his genuinely affectionate and much nicer brother instead
>Force him to give up the one thing that gives his life meaning
>Run away to the middle of nowhere and have a kid
>Still try to cheat on him as soon as the guy that dumped you shows up
>Stab him for no real reason
>Get killed by your daughter

Miyokichi has no redeeming qualities.

>>153590432
>>Be some prostitute
She probably picked up some good tricks.

>>153590432
She was forced into prostitution. She probably would have turned out to be a nice lady if not for that.

>nobody was at fault, they were all victims
That's wrong, though, it's literally Miyokichi's fault. Sure, Kiku didn't treat her well, but what she did was a massive overreaction. She was insane.

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I just want Kiku to be happy god dammit.

>>153590803
It's Yakumo the 7th's fault.

>>153586494
Who would've thought all the trouble came from a kinky threesome gone wrong?

Holy fuck, this episode seals AOTS

>>153587658
The whole of S1 set in the past was Yakumo telling his life story to Yotaro and Konatsu

A fucking 4-year-old managed to overpower a grown woman.

anyone know the track that plays during the flashback scene?

>>153592602
She's kinda just took it, too much grief to even attempt anything close to restraining her.

>>153591823

Frankly I don't think there's been a show this good this decade.

Holy shit!! that was gross! AOTY for second year!!

>>153592602
I think she's at least 6 years old.

>>153594248
Shinsekai Yori and Mawaru Penguin Drum are strong AOTD contenders, but I agree that Rakugo beats them.

>>153594248
Uchouten Kazoku is my pick so far, but Rakugo and those two >>153594906 are up there.

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>>153582117
58 posters, 165 replies, 7 hours.

This is soooo fucking pathetic

>>153594906
>>153595124
I also have those three very hingh. I don't put Rakugo in my top 5 because it's not over yet.

>>153595146
Its because there's no more discussion besides how good this ep was

>>153590803
>>nobody was at fault, they were all victims
Says the guy who is actually at fault >>153589244

>>153595146
Do you want me to add some more IPs?

>>153595146
This is how a thread without shitposting and waifufagging looks like.

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>>153594906
>Shinsekai Yori
>Mawaru Penguin
>AOTD

>>153594248
Not even top 10 lad.

You know, I was never too crazy about Konatsu's child voice in S1, she sounded too much like her adult version but this episode's 'Did you kill him' line and the following scene broke my heart.

I'm sorry I ever doubted you, Yuu-sama.

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>>153587658
>Must of skipped over that small detail of a story-telling

Did you just not even watch the episode?

>>153596039
Truly this is the darkest timeline.

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>tfw miyokichi and sukeroku would have lived if konatsu didnt overreact since it was just a light wound

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>>153596039

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Yotaro coming home and hugging his wife while crying, but still keeping Kiku's secret was cute as fuck. I love Mom and Pop, I wish they'd be a little bit more affectionate with each other.

>>153596482
>blood every where
>Sukeroku barely conscious
>just a light wound
Kiku obviously said that to make Matsuda calm so that he would take Konatsu out of there and find a medic.

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>>153596637
Konatsu is too tsundere to show her feelings too often.

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>>153596680
>barely unconscious
>was still able to react in time to run to yurie

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Holy fuck that episode.

>>153586494
>When you try anal for the first time and forget the lube

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>>153597233
>facebook-tier humor

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Smile status: NOT PROTECTED

>>153597233
>>When you try anal for the first time and forget the lube
I remember that joke post in S1.

>>153595146
Could be a lot worse.
I'm enjoying those little rakugo threads, can't say the same thing for threads of more popular shows I'm watching.

>>153586685
To vicariously bring justice to his unrequited childhood love.

>>153587473
>Kinda pissy about how they handeled the plot twist
Dude, it's not even a proper twist, you could tell it if you rewatched S1 first episode.

>>153595146
Thank god. Most threads are just constant shitposting, baiting, shipping, and waifushit.

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>>153587996
>ut she thinks it's Kiku based on the following hints

Holy fuck, fuck off with this.

>>153588927
It takes a lot of set up. I started for the rakugo performances and ended up staying for the meta rakugo story.

>>153590204
She was literally Tsundere

>>153588802
>I want the anime to air the last episode so the shitposters pushing Yakumo is Shinnosuke's dad get blown out and fuck off.
I gave up, I can't believe why retards think Yakumo would even do that in the first place of why Konatsu would, holy fuck

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The bag Konatsu had looked like a Birkin. How did she afford that? How did she even get her hands on one?

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>>153587849
>>153587812
Did the mangaka say anything about it?

In S1 he felt more a fag but in S2 he seems to think as the whore as his beloved?

It's kinda hard to read, I know about Ishida interview but the translator is notorious for trying to no homo stuff and it's just the VAs' words anyway.

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>Dat delusion

>>153592602
She didn't exactly overpower her

>>153597982
They did go out with each other. It's just that it was never meant to go anywhere.

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What the fuck is Shin wearing?

>>153598118
More like she daterape him half of the time.

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;_;

>>153598167
I don't remember it being that way but it's been awhile since I watched the last season.

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>>153598297
Really?

Akira Ishida can't act old for shit.

>>153598335
She was persistent but she only got crazy when she was being rejected. He did spend time with her and he loved her apparently.
>>153598375
what

>>153586223
>How the fuck does an anime for women made by fucking DEEN manage to do this?
Anime for women tend to be better on average cause they don't care about shit like purity and female character having independence, which generally gives you more freedom.

>>153585753
Is this considered a retcon or did the mangaka plan this from the start?

>>153598335
No
>Sex with women!?
Edit of this?

>>153598418
>Is this considered a retcon or did the mangaka plan this from the start?
You know there were inconsistencies in S1 ending already?

>>153598167
People wore weird shit in the 90s.

>>153597947
>think as the whore as his beloved

You do realize him and Miyokichi had a 10 year relationship right? Whatever you think their relationship was is up to you, but it is quite telling that she showed up during the "my beloved" line.

To answer your question, no the mangaka never said anything about his sexuality.

>>153582117
Well that was all well and good but I really hope the show doesn't play Kiku's actions that night off as basically heroic: his refusal to confront the reality of what happened was as much to shield himself as it was the protect Konatsu, and it emotionally stunted him to the point where he basically ruined a large part of Konatsu's life by becoming a terrible vortex of self-pity and contempt. I think this episode was really good and that Kiku is a great character, it just needs to be made clear that Kiku was not a martyr doing the right thing to protect Konatsu, but was a victim just as much as she was.

>>153599801
And also I'm not even sure how people are reading it as somehow being Konatsu's fault - there's obvious dramatic irony in the sense that if Konatsu hadn't been there that night in may have not happened, despite her blaming kiku, but the reality of the situation is like Matsuda said, that everyone in that room was a victim of circumstance, especially the little kid being forced to witness it all. It is literally Kiku's fault that Konatsu has spent her whole life blaming him - he has fostered and enabled that entire emotional spiral by refusing to deal with it or speak to Konatsu about it.

>>153596039
holy shit

>>153599930
>>153599801
congrats you watched the show.

Women ruin everything.

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>>153596039

>>153600547
You mean Rakugo.

Author seems a be a misogynist BL enthusiast who underwrites the female characters and have them be the cause of everything wrong while portraying the male characters as misunderstood people with good intentions seeing as how Kiku is being shown now. No doubt fujos will target Miyokichi even more now. Of course Yotaro is a pure angel who does everything right. The anime does a better job humanizing the female characters but to no avail.

>>153600985
I agree completely, but this was the wrong place to post this. Most people call on here hate Miyokichi.

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I started bawling when Sukeroku tried to save Miyokichi and kept crying right up to the end. She'd just stabbed him and the idiot still loved her so much. Fuck this het earth, I wish he could've lived happily ever after with Kiku instead. This series really fucks with my emotions, it's not like a lot of tearjerker series that manipulate me into crying about shit I don't really care about solely through the directing, it's that the whole situation is genuinely tragic and miserable in itself and the direction pushes me over the edge.

>>153600985
Oh fuck off, there's nothing progressive about female characters being pure innocent angels. That's pandering to men and watering down their characterization to be bland, boring and serve no purpose except as waifubait. She is not a good person but she is sympathetic and, above all, interesting. A flawed woman with a pivotal role in the series who isn't just there to make men buy figures of her is feminist to me.

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>>153600985
Doesn't really detract from it being a great story. It just could be better.
>>153601102
>Fuck this het earth,

>>153601102
>still loved her so much

I know, the part where he ran to her while calling out her real name gave me chills.

>>153601161
You'd be pretty delusional if you think there's an equal level of hatred directed at Miyokichi and Yakumo. When the content validates comments like "women ruin everything" and rampant fujos wishing Miyokichi never existed, that's not feminist. She's by the most underwritten character of the trio.

>>153601378
That's just shitposting if you make a strong women they call her a mary sue, no matter how you put it there always will be people who call women shit because they want.

>>153601378
What's your point? That women can't be the villain of a story or it's misogynistic? That people can't dislike a female character without being misogynists? That the audience projecting their existing misogyny on the characters is the writer's responsibility? Anime is far more guilty of making women too good and too perfect than making them too hateable, and in the end, even if Miyokichi is remembered for 'ruining things', she is still interesting, impactful and emotionally affecting in a way that female characters often aren't, because they need to be inoffensive and palatable for a male audience.

In any case, Miyokichi is only one female character. Konatsu is nothing like her and I can't see anyone arguing that her depiction is misogynist.

>>153597982
>deluded whore says she's dating a rakugo performer
>rakugo performer never notified of this change in their relationship

Trust not the bitch.

>>153598408
Her misinterpretation of his mommy issues meaning he loved her as a woman are the root cause of the entire tragedy. He needed X from her, she wanted Y, and when he wasn't going to give her Y she lost her shit.

>>153600547
Don't make prostitutes out of people and don't use them. People will never be happy that way.

>>153601780
They had a thing for 10 years. I don't know what year that was though.

>>153601873
>people still in denial about Kiku being in loving with Miyo

Literally where do these mommy issues even come into play? His mother was never mentioned passed the first few episodes from what I remember.

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>>153585107
He's sitting where Konatsu sat.

>>153601977
My heart

>>153601683
Miyokichi should not be the villain of the story nor should she be remembered for "ruining things" because the show and the characters themselves explicitly state that "It wasn't anyone's fault, they're all victims" but the content doesn't really reflect that as we're not given enough of Miyokichi's POV. Yes, I find her immensely more fascinating than most bland female characters but I truly believe she's underwritten due to the mangaka being a BL author.

>>153602107
People say she ruined things because Kiku and Sukeroku were doing fine before her. They were doing their rakugo and rising up. But really, none of this would have happened if they didn't hire her as a prostitute and kept her around. Anybody would start getting feelings. But there was no way anyone would marry her and she was stuck in her horrible place in life until she "expires". Really this could be a subtle social commentary on how women were treated in that time period and how it negatively impacts everyone. Even Konatsu gave up on wanting to do rakugo because she didn't want to "ruin" the men's hard work. It's a real shame because obviously she has a talent for it. Not being able to carry on her dad's legacy led her to having a child herself without caring to bring the dad into it. She probably had no confidence that she could have a good married life so she didn't even try. That kind of perpetuates the cycle which Yotaro thankfully broke.

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The biggest crime was making a sweet old man quake in terror.

Holy shit, I just noticed that Kiku loses his Haori in the OP, and it's (supposedly) the one shown floating around in the ED. Fuck I'm slow.

Also, holy shit this episode had me in tears twice. It's going to suck when this is finally over and I won't have anything of this caliber to look forward too each week, let alone waiting for another season of it to come out.

>>153602415
>They were doing their rakugo and rising up

Sukeroku would've had his problems with being denied the Yakumo name anyways, and of course his relationship with Kiku also had its issues(Kiku not being able to be around him because it hinders his own Rakugo) so they would eventually have to lose contact for quite a bit.

>>153602557
They would have had a rough patch but gotten through it, I think. Miyokichi was just too much.

I'm going to bed. If this thread is still up then I'll come back. This can be a nice discussion so keep it up.

>>153602107
This series is by not black and white, Miyokichi did many things wrong but so did Sukeroku and Yakumo. It can be interpreted in many ways and people aren't wrong if they hate a woman for stabbing someone and being too selfish in love, and they aren't wrong if they see her as a victim of circumstance who could have been different if people treated her better. I find it much more balanced than you're suggesting, and the fact that the mangaka had someone explicitly call her a victim shows she didn't intend for her to be a cut and dry villain.

It's ironic that you're so concerned about misogyny while parroting the dumb 'women hate other women!' meme, fujos haven't been hating on her any more than men have and the mangaka wrote two prominent female characters, one of whom you are completely ignoring because she doesn't support your point of view. Konatsu actually introduces feminist issues to the series, like participating in traditionally male arts, and being a single mother. Seeing her rakugo performance really made me feel so happy and inspired.

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>>153582117
Slowpoke here, just caught up with the last three episodes. Jesus Christ these have been great.

>>153602555
I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that for the first time this episode.

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>everything would've been fine if the three adults just all got together

they would've worked good as an ot3

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>>153586499
>enjoy both
>mfw I win twice

>>153596039
Fuck you man I'm trying to fap not to laugh.

>>153585107
Another fucking isekai anime. Really?

>>153602415
I agree that her backstory is a social commentary of those times but through those lens she embodies an idea more so than a person and the story of those circumstances that led her to become a victim was trivialized and pushed aside compared to Bon and Shin's tales.

>>153603590
Heh.

>>153602916
A menage a trois would have been the perfect solution

Wait, how old was Yurie?

>>153597947
>In S1 he felt more a fag but in S2 he seems to think as the whore as his beloved?
I'm not inclined to take the "my beloved" line as concrete proof that she was his genuine true sexual love. It's a little hard to explain, but a lot of the conflict in SRGS comes from the characters' attempts to fit into what they think society expects from them, with those expectations being based on and reflected in the roles we see in rakugo stories.

I could go into more detail about this if anyone doesn't accept the premise, but basically the fact that Yakumo quotes the line from the story he was just telling while looking at the image of Miyokichi doesn't mean she's the honest true love of his life. It could mean he projects Miyokichi onto the role of the wife in the story (the courtesan at the height of her powers whose life was lost too soon) and himself onto the monk (the tragic survivor who tried to save her and spends decades atoning for failure).

Then, unable to extricate himself from that role, decides the feelings he has for her must be "love", because in the stories that's always the relationship of those roles to each other.

I'm not saying there's not room for other interpretations either, but in this anime there are too many layers of subtext and roleplaying to just say "a character said it, so it must be true." This episode already proved that wrong.

>>153604165
She was 20 when she left for Manchuria which is when she met 6th generation yakumo.

>>153604581
I always got the feeling that he was in love with her while watching the anime, but that he would never admit it to himself since he knew he would eventually have to leave her. When I read the interview with the VAs, everything became clearer to me.

>>153604746
Interviews with VAs are interesting, but they aren't canon. Especially since, in that same interview, the actors themselves admitted they were discovering their roles as the show went on.

It's fine to believe that Yakumo is straightforwardly telling the truth the few times he talks about Miyokichi in romantic terms. But there are also grayer interpretations that are equally supported by the text as well as the show's deeper themes.

>>153605058
>but they aren't canon
But the VAs undoubtedly understand these characters on a different level.

>>153605117
But not necessarily a more "true" level. Again, even in the interview, Hayashibara admits that she didn't always know what Miyokichi's motivations were in some scenes until a later episode put them into context, or the mangaka was on set to explain what was going on. They don't always see the final animations, or framing, or music additions, either. They are focused on their own role and their interpretation of it, which isn't necessarily the same thing as the finished product we in the audience see.

Anime is a product of many hands. The characters are not created or presented whole cloth from the seiyuus' interpretation. Again, an interesting read, a possible interpretation, and useful reference, but not "word of god," and certainly not the last word on the subject.

>>153605279
Never said true level, just a different one from the average fans.

It was a neat and interesting read and personally made some things a bit more clearer to me, especially regarding the relationship between Kiku and Miyo-which is the one I find most interesting in the show.

Anyone here tried watching Shoten? It's basically like Whose Line is it Anyway with rakugo. Lots of banter too.

well I smiled like a madman watching Sukeroku perform but then I was reminded that he died a pointless death and I just had to punch something

>>153605969
He died with the woman he loved.

>>153605379
I think it's very interesting, too. I think it gets more interesting (and tragic) when you add the layer that the awful ways in which they hurt each other may not even have come from their honest feelings, but from trying to fit their square peg personalities and experiences into the round holes society set out for them, and making everything much worse as a result.

its funny how konatsu says shes nothing like her mother, but has her stubbornness and bad attitude.

also funny how she doesnt seem too fond of "nice" guys like her mother was. she was quite cold to yotaro for a long time.

>>153606136
she's still cold to him as if their marriage was out of necessity

>>153606170
nah, shes definitely warmed up. when he hugged in the end, she would've pushed him off in the past but now she doesnt seem to mind and instead had a smile on her face.

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just ;_;

>>153601977
Nice catch.

>>153585753
My little murder is too fucking cute

Just watched the latest episode.

JESUS MOTHER OF FUCK. I'm so glad I haven't been following the threads and wasn't spoiled.

I liked the film part, but the big reveal was kind of underwhelming. It didn't help that Matsuda's voice doesn't lend itself to dramatic moments like that.

>>153600985
The Author's actual BL has funny women as supporting characters, go back to tumblr.

>>153604165
I believe a few years older than Kiku/Sukeroku. After all she was able to be with the 7th Yakumo (as a younger mistress) and then Kiku after.

>>153600985
>Implying women aren't 90% of men's problems
I hope you're kidding. Kiku's whole story is about trying to stay away from a girl to focus on his profession, only for her to still drag him around, even from beyond the grave. And it does it without making it some dumb "forbidden love" story

>>153605969
It had been long enough since seeing his living presence it did feel like watching this legendary talked about character.

I liked how the difference of hearing Sukeroku and watching him shown on Yota's face.

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These films didn't actually have sound, right?
I've seen some from my grandfather and they're all silent.

>>153608466
Why the hell would you bother recording a rakugo performance if you didn't have a camera with a microphone?

>>153608466

The whole recording thing was a bit of an asspull in general. We saw tons of audience shots during that performance and there was nobody holding a camera, and cameras at that time would have been enormous things so not like it could have been hidden anywhere.

>>153608570
Reminder the original time we saw it we saw Kiku telling the story, and Kiku didn't know there was a recording.

>>153587473
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreliable_narrator

>>153607189
Yeah, I definitely think all these people defending Miyokichi must be tumblrites who have some sort of complex about admitting it when women do something wrong. Sure, she had a tough life and Sukeroku was also in the wrong for being a useless bum, but none of that excuses what she did.

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>>153596039
10/10

Just caught up with the latest airing anime releases and this latest episode of Rakugo has currently separated this show from the other AOTS contenders on my list. That beautiful tie in with the first season and true ending reveal was magnificent. Bravo.

>>153609620
doesn't excuse what she did but it does help us understand why

I love her character. she's stuck in her old-world ways (I just need a man to love and take care of me) just like kiku with his rakugo. she thinks she found someone who cares about more than just her body and latches on. he forces her away due to her past and the general cultural sentiment against geisha marriages. she turns to sukeroku in her time of emotional weakness and run away.

she tries to run away from her past but she cant. that's why she hates sukeroku's rakugo. remember she doesn't even like rakugo, she just likes hearing kiku's voice. and sukeroku's/konatsu's rakugo only reminds her of kiku. ultimately she goes back to her old ways, getting with other men, and has her chance to finally move on from her past when kiku comes to town.

I think she meant to lovers suicide but sukeroku intervenes. upset that she doesn't get her poetic ending she attacks him, etc.

I don't blame her for splitting up sukeroku and kiku. they were bound to split anyway, too much tension and rivalry. she was just the catalyst that sped up the separation. she is to blame for no more of sukeroku's rakugo though.

she was so close (kinda) to being happy if kiku had accepted her despite her background. and she harbors this resentment for years. it makes sense that she would be fucking crazy

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>>153596039
Well played Anon.

Matsuda is a fucking bro, I hope he gets a happy ending.

>>153610256
he's 120yo

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>>153596039

What a tear-filled, tear-inducing episode.

>>153590320
It's the holding out of hands and Kiku's rejection of all those around him that does it for me.

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>>153587984
So cute I almost died.

>>153598497
>You know there were inconsistencies in S1 ending already?

Explain further.

>>153596039
saved

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Next episode should have a scene I've been looking forward to. Just hope they don't skip it.

>>153602916
That doesn't work in reality and this show is pretty realistic.
The only ot3 I find cute and loving is the one from Yuyushiki.

>>153596039
You missed Britta=Yurie in background.

>>153611968
Rewath S1 episode 1. Pay attention to Konatu's flashback.

>>153589948
Yes, but no subs.

>>153615173
Oh right. Cheers.

>>153615253
Subs never.

>>153585760
>Look, your father loved me and not your mother. I'm your real mommy

>Kiku looked the happiest he ever did preforming Akegarasu
>Sukeroku found his passion and his hope again
>Kiku thought that all four of them (Miyo, Kiku, Sukeroku, Konatsu) should live together in Tokyo
>Sukeroku and Kiku were at peace, Miyo had the chance of finding some.
>Instead we get this.

Truly the worst timeline.

>>153600985
It's funny how much fujos hate females.

>>153616686
>It's funny how much fujos hate females.
Most fujos I spoke with don't hate women, most of the times they don't even care for them. No one hated Gou in Free for example or YoI female characters.

Not to mention a lot of women tend to like Yuri in general.

They hate women that get in the way of their OTP, though. But I don't think it's particularity different from male straight otaku who hate any man in harem anime who aren't their self-insert and may pose a treat.

fuck me that was a great episode.

>>153600985
>misogynist
Fuck off and kill yourself.

>>153616994
Believe it or not that is a word and it does aptly describe people who single out Miyokichi to blame.

>>153616994
>this fear of critical thought

>>153604581
I don't think Kiku is "gay" so much as the only thing he ever really wanted from life was rakugo. He just wanted to perform his craft, and found that Yurie was hindering his ability to improve, so he ended up cutting it off.

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>>153586988
How low.

>>153606136
But Sukeroku was a nice guy.

>>153617950
Sukeroku was an ass who only thought of himself.

>>153617950
He was an irresponsible, selfish, lazy slob that brought trouble to all who associated with him.
He wasn't evil, but he was a pain.

>>153618000
>only thought of himself
He takes care of his daughter when his wife left the family. He was a good dad.

>>153618056
But he was nice. Nothing of what you listed contradicts my statement.

>>153618059
He literally made his infant daughter responsible for the family income.

>>153618097
Why are you so jaded? It's never too early to each your kids how to perform.

>>153618095
>nice
A nice person would realize how much trouble he's causing everyone else and mend his ways.

>>153617950
Miyo didn't quite like him.

>***,129位/***,145位 ◎ (***,*65 pt) [*,**0予約] 2017/06/07 昭和元禄落語心中 -助六再び篇- Blu-ray BOX(期間限定版)
We're doing okay guys

>>153619033
Woah, I don't know how much s1 sold but that's better than I'd expect.

>>153617263
Yes of course, people only blame her for being a woman after all.

>>153619033
How do I read this?

>>153587712
I think one of the most interesting twists is that Kiku really did love Miyokichi.

>>153600985
women did something bad and calling something by it's proper name is sexist

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I'm tired of making the same statement over and over again, but how can an anime be so good?

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>>153618059
>He takes care of his daughter when his wife left the family

Good joke.

>>153622630
I don't know, either, but I'm so glad I picked it up even though the premise seemed so boring. I've never been so glad to be wrong about an animu.

>>153617263
>people who single out Miyokichi to blame.
But Miyokichi is to blame.

Shin worst fault was being a bum and a shit father, but at least he got his stuff together and never tried to murder anone.

Miyokichi didn't have to do any of that shit and everyone would have been happy, even herself.

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>>153619087
>>153619989
>>153619033
>65 points
No, we are not, but it's expected.

>>153623666
Same. After hearing all the great praise, I gave in and watched it December. Im really glad I did and now I get to watch it as it airs.

Also, is it currently 1986 or the early 90s?

>>153585514
>over 300 replies
>no transparent version

>>153624531
It just got solicited today and it has like 4 months to go before it comes out.

>>153625793
You know it won't sell either way.

Fujoshi are the only one who would ever buy this and the show doesn't have enough pandering for them.

>>153625878
Oh fuck off, fujos shouldn't be expected to buy a series which revolves around het romance. It's not a lack of 'pandering', it's just not fujo oriented to begin with.

>>153626584
>Oh fuck off, fujos shouldn't be expected to buy a series which revolves around het romance

Yes, that's what I said, what makes you think I was disagreeing?

>>153626631
>the show doesn't have enough pandering for them.
makes it sound like you're saying it's not overt enough with fanservice for those silly shallow fujos but is otherwise suitable for them. I keep seeing people complain about them not buying it as if it's their responsibility, which isn't fair at all.

>>153626748
There are definitely enough elements in Shin/Yakumo's relationship to appeal to fujo, I know fujos who bough far more straight shows for years.

This said, it also not their fault that it's not selling, ultimately it's a straight show that can't even bother to play with the ambiguity that Yakumo was a fag anymore.

>>153590100
She still isn't hugging him back though. She isn't quite his wife yet, just not being mean to him.

>>153595146
This is what actual discussion without the shitposting and memes looks like.

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It's so weird seeing young Kiku after getting used to the grumpy old geezer of this season

>>153627036
Well considering they end up having a daughter, she will eventually get there. She's just a naturally cold person much like the man who raised her.

>>153626843
You're right, I guess I'm just saying that I don't think it's a lack of pandering that's the issue. If anything it panders pretty hard without delivering. There is a lot of appeal and a lot of gay subtext in their relationship and in Kiku as a character, but it's full het in the end.

It's too bad, I honestly think it would add an interesting new dimension and layer of emotional intensity to the series if Kiku had romantic feelings for Sukeroku. Unrequited, obviously, since it's more tragic that way. But I can respect that the mangaka didn't want to do BL this time and that'd alienate some of the audience.

>>153624541
Judging by Yota's hoodie, I'd say it's the 90s.

>>153617263
> who single out Miyokichi to blame.

Do you also watch Kuzu no Honkai and think that Sensei isn't a bad person either?

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>>153627036
They forgot to draw the hand.

>>153627410
Still waiting for scans to continue

>>153624541
>>153627360
Mid 90s. They mentioned the Kobe earthquake.
Next big event would be the Sarin attacks.

>>153627410
They didn't forgot, in the anime her hand is on the ground.

>>153627410
>>153587957
Yotaro deserved better.