Time Traveling and Looping

Why would anyone use time travel if they were happy?

Go read Thermae Romae if you want non-suffering time travel

>>153157968
Not all of 'em are voluntary, you know.

>>153157836
Higurashi isn't time travel per se, it's different parallel worlds. And time continues on in them even after Rika dies.

>>153158015
Wait, they keep existing?

That's pretty fucked up.

>>153158040
Yeah, Tatarigorishi-hen in the VNs ends with Keiichi giving an interview 10-15 (I forget exactly) years later, being the only survivor of Hinamizawa.

>>153158107
I always saw them as kinda "what ifs," not that they canonically actually exist as fucked up worlds.

Didn't Rena show up in an epilogue of a world in Kai?

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>>153158015
I depends on you point of view I guess. Rika herself is timetravelling but everyone else is left behind. And as we look from above, it seems to us to be a sea of different worlds.
>>153158240
Remember the conversation at the beginning of Minagoroshi? They're real bad end worlds that were abandoned. And Rika's mind jumps back into her younger body, killing the original everytime.

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>>153158426
>killing the original everytime

...I never thought about it that way.

Suddenly Steins;Gate feels more morbid...

Time loops suck even without demons and aliens and diseases trying to murder you.

>>153158240
They explicitly aren't what ifs though, Kai has you go from parallel world to parallel world at one point.

>>153158653
The initial conditions are also pretty different, thinking back on it. Not really time travel, but just looping through similar worlds.

>>153158489
Did you finish Higurashi? That line of thinking is what caused Rika an identity crisis and she starts thinking of herself as "Bernkastel"

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>>153157836

>>153157836
I know you started this thread to talk about Samurai Jack anon, don't BS.

>>153158724
Oh? I knew about Bern, but I saw Higurashi so long ago, and it felt somewhat convoluted, I'm not sure I really understood everything.

Is Higurashi's Bernkastel the same as Seacats'?

>>153158858
I wanted add Jack to that "suffering time/world traveler cafe" picture but I couldn't find it, so I had to make a webm instead

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>>153157836
>Time travel
>No suffering
Pick one

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>>153157836
UQ holder is about immortals and theres an immortal that has savepoints, she suffered a shitload yes, but she's not in constant suffering state.

>>153158426
This.
Time Travel in Higurashi works similar to Dragon Ball: each time travel creates a new timeline.

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>>153159009
She grew up in a poor household and had to somehow combat literal starvation by looping.

Cute as a button though.

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>>153158860
99% sure of it yeah. Rika is Rika but thinks of herself as Bernkastel.

Bernkastel is Bernkastel and lives outside of the gameboard reality that is Higurashi. A witch that left after the game was finished and wandered until she found the Umineko gameboard.

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>>153159060
the part that got me is how she mentions losing count and doesn't remember how many times she looped.

>>153157836
The ability of time traveling has a huge impact on a person, since their actions can either prevent or cause someone else's demise, depending on how they use their abilities. When they fuck up, it usually has alot of unforeseen consequences. Specially when the main character has either high morality or loved ones involved.

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>>153159328
That's some fucked up shit. Imagine being stuck looping when you're 4 years old, with no proper knowledge of the world and no idea how to break free.

Because time powers are absolutely broken so human writers insert bullshit contrivances to make it not seem like having time powers is as broken as it would really be

>>153159536
considering she had to redo that day hundreds of times + the other 7 years of looping she's probably done how mentally old is kirie already? 20-25?

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>>153157836
Although I'd be hard pressed to call the guy happy OP

>>153159628
Does Kirie face death from aging?

>>153157836
Despairfags ultimate dreams.
Why have the MC suffer through the death of a beloved one when they can witness it happen over and over in different ways?

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>>153159696

>>153159175
Wait, so.

Furude Rika is the girl living innocently in each world, until she's either killed because of Takano and friends, or hijacked by a world-traveling consciousness that is derived from one Rika in particular.

Bernkastel (Higurashi) is a consciousness that originated as a Furude Rika, but was shifted by Hanyuu into multiple worlds, resulting in a hundred+ year journey of suffering. She dissociates herself from Furude Rika as a result, and eventually manages to force the world into a happy conclusion. She lives out her days with friends and Hanyuu.

Bernkastel (Seacats) is a witch who happens to bear the same name/likeness, probably as a nod to Higurashi.

Is this correct?

>>153159009
She's suffering quite a bit, except for when she's being dere on occasion.

>>153157836
the contrast of being able to control time itself yet unable to stop bad things from happening is a useful mood/plot device

>>153159668
No, she's immortal. She doesn't age -- or at least from what I understand.

>>153159854
she's not immortal in the traditional sense.

the reason why she is thousand times more mature than she looks is because of constant timelooping+studying, she has lived twice as much as she looks like she has.

>>153158489
This freaks me out. But why doesn't it happen when he goes back to stop Chris from dying?

>>153158858
Whats wrong with that I hope its good

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>>153157836
Each loop is just a chance to hone your skills, and collect more harem pussy.

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>>153159756
Mostly.
Bernkastel(Seacats), it would be better to call her Bernkastel(voyager witch)
She was a being born from Furude Rika's despair. She went to take the lost player's place and play against Lambdadelta to finish the Higurashi game. After the game was finished and her origin, Rika, gained her happy ending, Bernkastel(voyager witch) went on to find the Umineko game.


If Rika is a tree, then Bernkastel is a branch that grew from her. Specifically her despair. That branch broke off and now drifts wherever the winds take it.

Living is inherently shitty and futile so (being forced to) keep living compounds the suffering.

>>153160349
This is hard to grok.

So, then, does Bernkastel (Voyager Witch) exist separately at any time in Higurashi's "main" plot? Does she somehow affect the events in Higurashi?

Also, what's Lambdadelta? I mean, where'd she come from? Does she originate from Takano? Or does Takano just bear some resemblance to her?

>>153157836
Samurai Jack is anime?

>>153160800
>japanese samurai is sent to the future world
>he must find the demon lord aku who has taken control of the world
it's also an isekai with timeloops.

>>153160800
LONG AGO IN A DISTANT LAND

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>>153161287
I, AKOOGLY EYES

>>153157836
who did it best

>>153157836
Because happy endings are only good when there was a lot of suffering along the journey.

>>153157836
Time quest, or Doraemon. Though those are for kids.

>>153158489
I thought it was explained that there's only one active reality and all other worlds are potential realities on stand-by.

>>153161520
There were different worldlines, I dunno if they stated that some are more valid than others.

Escapeism
Trump has taken the U.S from the present timeline, and jumped to steins;gate

>>153160800
i wouldn't call Jack happy.

Yuru Yuri is about happy time travelers.

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Because the feel when they stuck in a world where there isn't a way to save their dear even if they have a chance is fucking heartbroken. The pain when they die aren't comfortable too. Also some of them must loop when they just want to die will make them become some crazy faggot

Some of them are exception like this madman. He even loops many times to fix his waifu's hair

>>153162331
https://u.nya.is/iysxqs.webm

One of the best despair moments (partly because of that fucking swelling music)

>>153161513
> Doraemon
> happy
Obly from Nobita point of view. Shizuka got meh to average ending because of time meddling.

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>>153162433
that's from the movies huh, I never did watch em despite watching through the originals years back when they first released

>>153162879
That scene's actually from the TV broadcast. In the movies, they replaced the audio with the normal Walpurgis music, changing the tone entirely. I think it's not as powerful as a result, but fits better in a movie context.

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we are all eternal we have been here to long .
we long for something new , never do we find it.

>>153157836
Subaru's life in Lugunica will still be full of sufferings even without the reset ability.

>>153163470
Nonsense. He fled with Rem and had a happy family life

>>153157836
moar edgy content for teenfags

>>153162331
Is this the one where the MC goes full on Kumagawa and tells some chick he's fighting that he's died 1000+ times to figure out how to beat her or some shit?

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>>153157836
Rokujouma
Zashiki Warashi
'ware the spoilers. No real good way to do this.

>>153157836
>Why are they always so depressed?
Because repeated timetravel, as long as it's not done BttF-style, is the allegory of the snake biting its own tail. Those stories usually feature an "unescapable fate", one which happens no matter what the character tries to do. In fact, we can say that it's not that the fate itself is unescapable (fate is hardly unescapable because you are supposed to be molding it by your actions and once you've lived it, you normally cannot go back) but more that the character, by using this plot device, casts him/herself outside of the laws of cause and effect, or at least has little relevance with regards to those.
It's therefore a story about the weight of the world, the weight of destiny, tragic deaths that must be impaired, and the mind of a human forced to repeat a cycle in which s/he has usually very small impact on the outcome.

To the viewer/reader, it's one of the best provider of Schadenfreude and all of that shit.

>>153157836
most of the time, time travelers travel through time to change something they didn't like or don't want to happen.

however as seen in many fiction works, changing time is in itself a paradox, take for example in the novel the Time Machine, the doc goes back in time to save her beloved, from being killed, each time he goes back and averts the situation, she gets killed in another way. this is because Times has to correct itself in order to avoid a paradox which is "if that person had not being killed, the time traveler wouldn't have traveled back through time to save her" so in order for the time traveler to go back, that person or that event MUST happen, so this happens in most works of fiction as well, time travelers get to see the events unfold many times just in different ways and will see it is inevitable... or at least shoud be inevitable

>>153158858
Let's be real though, this Jack is going to knock it out of the park. I'm talking best of the spring season here. Maybe best of the year.

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>Was never able to make jumps to the past, just jump forwards
>Because she was a fucking engineer she was basically able to piggy back off her own work to develop her engine whenever she was able to get info from alternate timelines to build the machine needed to save the Island
>The major roadblock to her progress wasn't her skill as a pilot or engineer but her subconscious prioritizing the timeline she wanted most and thus fucking up the criteria for her searches which was why she kept getting roadblocked

>>153161988
The canon is that there is only one universe. The Worldlines are different ways that one universe can be arranged. Time does not continue in the old worldline after a switch. This is why people can remember stuff (hand wavey), they used to be arranged in this way.

All this talk about Higurashi got me interested.
Whats the best way to go about watching the story, anime or VN?

Human morality does not survive impact with either time travel or multiple worlds. A lot is derived from that.
If there's no fate, harmless actions can cause unimagined consquences, so your free will is limited by your own fear to change things uncontrollably. If there's fate, your free will is an illusion by definition.
Most of our "moral senses" are not fit to handle either not having any impact on our surroundings or said impact being able to snowball so wildly and uncontrollably from even seemingly moral actions.
Also, it makes a lot more situations that would be a straight game over without it become manageable. People can be tortured for decades or centuries and yet, if they persevere through that, still do something important. Death is often an outright condition for time travel, so torture and death of main characters and party wipes become a plot device instead of "fuck you" from the author.
And if there's multiple competing time travelers with no restrictions set on them, that's when it gets downright spooky.
Well, in general, thinking about time and history and causality begets constant reminders of mortality and death, since that's what time is to most people. A slow yet unpredictable assassin. Time is also so vast and incomprehensible, that when you really have to work around it, actually change it, it causes the same cosmic dread Lovecraft was trying to cause in his readers with Elder Gods.
Time travel is completely broken, yet it's so broken, it also makes the lows a lot lower without completely fucking up the story, and dealing with time is a subject that also just has a lot of existential dread associated with it.
Also, a story of a guy who makes everything in his life go perfect without even thinking about it by just jumping and fixing everything through time travel is boring. Even if his jumps were to be perfectly calculated and the guy himself shown to be competent, it would more likely be the story about the tragedy of hubris than a comedy.

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>>153165798
Visual Novel for sure. The anime adaption by deen gets decent at the end I would say. And the OVAs are very well done, openings and endings and all that. But it skips way too much.
For instance, Higurashi's famous formula is Slice of life hapiness events first ---> sudden unexpected decent into madness ----> a grand mystery is formed asking "where did everything go wrong?"
The anime gets right into the gore halfway through the second episode. Where the VN has 4 hours or so of build up so you can get to know the characters. The anime doesn't really challenge you to solve the mystery either.
Basically the VN is a psychological horror mystery masterpiece. The anime is a poor slasher adaption. Though all the major events are the same. Also don't read too much of what was said earlier in the thread or it will spoil you haha.

>>153160629
This is mostly educated guesses and speculation
In the beginning two ancient witches, Featherine and Lambdadelta played a game where Featherine would try and save Rika from "absolute certain death". Lambda guided Takano to form her conspiracy. Featherine guided Hanyuu. However Featherine had her horn which held her memories damaged. She forgot her purpose and left Rika to wander the absolute certain death trap for all eternity. By not being able to see the mystery from above she was doomed to fight through the witch's maze as just a human. Hanyuu knows to bring her back to the beginning every time but that's it. Eventually after many loop Rika's despair forms the witch Bernkastel inside the meta realm. Bern pieces together the plot and has a hand in helping Rika figure out the mystery, escaping her fate. Witch Bernkastel leaves the Higurashi world to search for other worlds. Lambda follows her.
Our Rika left behind in Higurashi world starts calling herself Bernkastel as well, to distinguish herself from the innocent little Rikas she jumps into

>>153157836
They know every time time travel is involved the plot goes to shit, that would make anyone moody and depressed.