Was jojo better before stands?

No it was generic garbage.

It was great, but the best stand battles are better than the best hamon battles

Yeah but you can only have generic kung-fu for so long before the series needs something new.

>>153156079
>villain of the week JoJo is better than actual attempt at plot JoJo

>>153155852
Yes.

Stands are boring/ridiculous, at least to me, because there are little to no rules to constrain them. A stand can have any and every power that is convenient to the plot, and there is very little similarity between stands to even be able to group them as the same type of "magic." Stands are any random power that the mangaka wanted to write a fight about that week. This is lame, no matter how he tried to use the powers in inventive ways (especially because we all knew the outcome of those fodder fights before they even started). Systems of magic need to make sense at least within the story's own world. Stopping time, psychic photography, age regression, removing souls, whatever the hell Empress is (parasite?), Mariah's magnet/gravity powers, Vanilla Ice's dimension warping/black hole, a future telling manga book...these are all abilities that come from the same source type!? An orangutan, a bird, a sword, a car, a baby, and a dog can use (and be deadly with) a stand, but Holly Kujo can't even manage to stay alive while in possession of one? Smells like bull to me.

I wouldn't even mind the randomness if there was an actual story to hold SC together, or the fights had any impact/consequence. BT had problems, but it was interesting to see how the characters worked within the limits of their abilities to win, or see how the limits on their powers made them lose. HxH has probably done the best job of having a wide range of powers, but at least attempting to be logical about how the system works and why things are possible.

>>153156079
P1 was generic garbage but P2 got extremely creative and intelligent fights.

>>153155852
No.
Stands are one of the most unique concepts in fiction and they're what make Jojo Jojo.
As good as the Ripple was, Joseph pushed it to the limit. I don't see the ripple working farther without devolving into powerlevel nonsense, and Dio's / The Pillar Men's abilites are basically Stands without being Stands ("My Stand allows me to shoot blood from my eyes"; "My Stand allows me to take the form of any living being")
If you want magical kung-fu you can read Fist of the North Star.

>>153156599
P2 is basically if we take the last three fights on any of the later parts and turn them into an arc.
I'm not saying it's bad, but it isn't as amazing as people makes it up to be.

>>153156414
Part 3 is the weakest as far as stands go.

>>153156414
>Stands are boring/ridiculous, at least to me, because there are little to no rules to constrain them
>BT had problems, but it was interesting to see how the characters worked within the limits of their abilities to win, or see how the limits on their powers made them lose.

>Hamon
>having rules
THE JUICES OF MY ASS CAN CONDUCT THE RIPPLE

>>153155852
Hamon wasn't nearly flexible enough to carry a long running series. Stands are far more creative.

No. Part 3 is great.

Jojo was better before Part 4.

>>153156414
Extreme accuracy post here

>>153157456
No. Part 4 is great.

Jojo was better before Part 5.

>>153155852
>Better

It was better than Part 3, 5 and 6, on par with 4.

part 7 was the apex, part 8 is meh

>>153157949
No. Part 5 is great.

Jojo was better before Part 6.

>>153156079
You seriously think Battle Tendency was worse than Stardust Tourists?

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>>153160635
>Stardust Tourists

>>153160635
>bullshit tendency

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>unironically being a hamonfag

>>153160564
No. Part 6 is great.

Jojo was better before Part 7.

>>153161572
No. Part 7 is great.

Jojo was better before Part 8.

>>153162390
Jojo sux

>>153162390
No. Part 8 is great.

Jojo was better before Jorge Joestar.

>>153156414
the entire point of the series is for the MCs to try and defeat enemies by figuring out their abilities and outsmarting them. Without that it's nothing. That's like complaining that it's a different threat every episode of X-Files or something

>>153158443
>seriously implying part 5 and 6 should be lumped together with 3 at the bottom of the barrel
Terminal shit taste

>>153155852
No the series would have died because there are tons of generic muscly brawler guy manga/anime

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>>153156414
>I don't like this psychic shit it's too much like magic
>but it's ok when hamon and vampire/pillarman blood are LITERALLY magical

I think stand are pretty cool but none of the protagonists have been as fun as Joseph the bullshit machine Joestar. Nor the story has been as focused as Part 2.
Jojo Part 3 and beyond feel like a bunch of short stories interconnected with the same main characters instead of a full story like Part 2. Even part 1 had filler, with the undead warriors and such.

I wish Jojo introduced a new concept every 2 or 3 parts or something, and the old stuff can be used too in conjuction.
Hamon, Stands, Spin, and other stuff. I think the main problem with stands is that they don't have a common weakness, flaw or rules other than being invisible for non-stand users. Hamon had this rule where if you couldn't breathe, you became weak, but there's no such thing with stands.
If it originally was a colorful way to represent psychic powers, the weakness should have been the ability to concentrate on it or something similar.

>>153155852
Hamon was a great mechanic and the story was on point; however, the series would run out of material easily and die.
Stands are a good mechanic and present a lot of creativity, but gives the series a heavy battle shonen feel with a different fight each episode.

Arguably the series was better before stands, but the two parts are too different to compare.

>parts 1 and 2 better than latter parts

yeah no

>>153155852
I think the manga degenerated horrifically after part 2 in terms of plot cogency and any semblance of direction or sensible governing principles. If you just like memes, seeing new stands, and looking at new goofy character designs, I can see why you would continue to enjoy jojo after that. But it almost inarguably has just vacillated between stupid and stupider with each successive arc after 2. If I had only just now started reading the manga, I probably would have dropped it halfway through part 4.

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All the way through part 3 I wanted them to fight some old guy who still practiced hamon and somehow he could see stands or maybe he had a hamon-centric stand. I loved part 2 and it was kind of jarring to see hamon absolutely dropped and mentioned like twice in the next part.

>>153157456

but part 4 is better than 3 because not every episode between the first and the fight with Dio is filler.

Wouldn't Hamon just become a Stand if you perfected it?

>>153155852
>unironically think part 1 - 6 is good

Jojolion/Steel Ball Run > anything else > part 1 - 6

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Araki struck gold with the concept of stands. The ripple could not have remained interesting past part 2.

Yes, more focus on the historical side and less on dumb boring fights

Whenever I listen to music in public instead of doing little waves/dances I imagine my stand doing all the playing/dancing shit. So stands are okay in my book, they should not come to ultrajump's meeting tomorrow.

Part 7 was the best part so yeah I'd say its better when both hamon/golden rotation and stands are used in conjunction.
>>153158443
Part 8 is top 3 parts as it stands because of the very smooth mix between story and fights. Plus the stands are some of the most interesting and it has some of the best side villains and stand fights since part 5. Damo especially was a breath of fresh air.

>>153155852
I like in part 1 and 2 that seem to focus on soap opera-ish drama more. Some stands fight are interesting and intense (vanilla ice and petshop for example) but it make the story became "monster of the week" plot instead.

>>153155852
Wamuu vs. Joseph is still my favourite fight in the series

Stands can be cool, but I don't like how there are basically no rules to them. There are some rules in theory, but multiple stands break them so they don't really matter.

>>153155852
It depends, if you like generic battle-shonen, then no

If you don't like generic battle shonen, then yes.

Is hamon the ultimate plot armor?