>No amount of work will overcome natural talent >Gets his

>reincarnation of a demigod
>no talent

He dies anyway

>>153056428
>>Gets his ass kicked by someone who had no natural talent
Naruto was literally the son of the previous Ninja President and had some sort of super being in his belly. That's kind of talent.

>>153056486
Not the way Neji was portraying it, if you didn't pop out your mom being better than everybody you were trash in his eyes.

>>153056508
And his mother was from a special blood line that was rare because the clan was destroyed because others feared their power. Said bloodline specifically naturally had lots of chakra and was especially suited to containing and controlling a tailed beast.

>>153056537
Determination is Naruto's talent, so he was better than Neji all this time.

>>153056428
He just overestimated his own natural talent.

>>153056428
>son of the fourth hokage
>masters kage bunshin no jutsu in like a minute despite being considered a extremely difficult jutsu
>student of a ninja genius who in turn was the student of the fourth hokage
>godson and student of a hokage level legendary ninja
>reincarnation of the first hokage
>LITERAL REINCARNATION OF A DEMIGOD WHO IN TURN WAS THE SON OF THE LITERAL ORIGINAL NINJA GOD
>overpowered chakra demon from day 0
>literally given powers from the ninja god's ghost himself

We keep saying Neji was right because he was right. He simply didn't know it.

>>153057080
>literally the 'child of destiny' that was destined to save the world

>gets beaten by the literal reincarnation of a Ninja Jesus

Neiji was right.

Even the author admits it. Boruto was named after him.

>>153057080
All that can be true but he was still wrong, Naruto had to train and struggle to make the bit of progress it took to beat Neji. And short of the Sage giving out endgame powers he worked harder to improve all the way to the end.

>show tries to push the whole "hard work trumps talent" theme
>Naruto was essentially born with the most power in the whole series
>all of the most powerful characters are ones who belong to a certain bloodline/were born with some sort of special ability
>Meanwhile, Rock Lee, a true "power through hard work" character is a joke, and remained as such for the whole series
Kishimoto really had no idea what he was doing with the themes in this manga, did he?

>>153057617
Well, we at least have Guy

>>153057529
That training and struggle only meant something because Naruto already had the Nine-tails in him, along with perfect genes from his super-special mother and Fourth Hokage father. If he didn't have those, he could work 5 times harder and still lose to Neji.

>>153056428
>gets his kicked by Naruto using the demon fox he had implanted at birth
Isn't that pretty much the same as inborn talent, if not worse?

Also, I don't know why the theme was "talent vs effort" when the so called geniuses like Neji and Sasuke are shown to train as hard as everyone else.

>>153057529
>All that can be true but he was still wrong, Naruto had to train and struggle to make the bit of progress it took to beat Neji
A meaningless point as Neji also had to train for his own abilities. Both had inborn hax and Naruto won because his was haxer, not because he put in more effort.

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>someone who had no natural talent
I don't remember the bread and butter ninjas having the potential to save the world.

>>153056428
wasn't neji the reincarnation of the brother of the sage of 6 paths?

>>153057832
Neji lost because he underestimated Naruto and had a glass jaw.

>>153057991
No.

>>153057529
>massive chakra pool inherited from his mother
>secondary near infinite chakra pool that he can tap into some birth

>needed to train for 5min to un lock shadow clones


Yeah he worked real hard

>Ways Neji was right
Their are some gaps you can't overcome just by trying hard
>Ways Neji was wrong
You shouldn't just give up and cry about the hand you're dealt. Sakura and Kakashi are both proof that you dont have to be a special chosen one to be important

>>153058054
but he could've been. Seriously. Why are naruto and sasuuke the only reincarnations of their ancestors?
There is so much potential and kishimoto just sucks naruto and sasuke dick

>>153058125
Sakura was chosen by Tsunade. Kakashi obtained a hax eye.

>>153056486
>Warming:The amount of friends is not sufficient. bonuses not active

>>153058125
sakura got carried to victory and kakashi got carried by victory by the coolest guys sharingan.
The coolest guy could've taken back that eye anytime too.

>>153058125
Weren't all three of the Sannin also proof of that? I don't remember any of them belonging to any powerful bloodline, but then again, it's been a while since I read Naruto

>>153058163
Not to mention samurai did nothing of importance after the tournament arc.

>>153058125
Except kakashi was also the offspring of a legendary ninja

>>153058152
Because they're the main characters?

When the sage showed up was he going to say "oh yeah, and the other brother is that dude with the hole in his chest rotting other there. Guess we can't save the world lol."

>>153058125
Sakura was still useless up until the last page.

>>153058288
Well she was a great battlefield medic, I don't like her but I gotta give her that.

>>153058288
She was the authors constant reminder that hard work cannot surpass talent.

Just like Naruto was the reminder that talent will always surpass hard work.

>>153056428
Because you can see it in real life. The ones who are at the top are born naturals while the ones who are subhuman but continue to work hard are reduce to mediocre positions in life.

As it should be, because you don't want the trash of society to be running things otherwise you get things like communism and socialism which have all failed in the end and in the wake you get the rise of the inferior races such as the poo in the loos and the alla snakbars who commit acts of violence and terrorist when they don't get their way like liberals always do.

>>153058375
True, but there are plenty of skilled medics. She was nowhere near as important as Kakashi, much less Naruto.

>>153058274
How come both the sage and his brothers powers were needed to seal the old lady, but naruto+sasuke is only the sages powers and not his brothers?
How could they seal her with half the power?

> Talks about natural born talent all day

> Get's the shit punched out of him by the essential reincarnation of a ninja God's son with a tailed beast demon stored inside of him

> Said person continues to fuck his sister while he remains dead after jobbing in a war

What did Neji do to deserve this?

>>153058543
he was my favourite character in that PSP game a decade ago

>>153056428
Neji died, rock lee was irrelevant and Guy became a cripple.
Naruto became hokage.
Hard work means shit in that universe.

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>>153056428

Naruto has inhuman levels of stamina and durability, is talented with one really powerful gimmick (like all genin in the series) and also has super strength and unlimited chakra from foxy the edgelord.

Also the way the series ends, unless if you have special god like powers from birth, you are completely worthless in the naruto universe.

Neji was 100% right all along.

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>>153058414
You clearly aren't old enough to browse 4chan, fuck off you edgy kidshit.

Neji was wrong because his whole thing was that you should just roll over and deal with the hand you were dealt with when you were born.

He was saying that Naruto shouldn't have tried to improve and get better. That Lee shouldn't have tried to be a ninja because of his lack of chakra.

yeah there's some gaps that can't be overcome by hard work alone, but you shouldn't just sit there and cry about it without trying to make things better for yourself.


>>153058209
>Weren't all three of the Sannin also proof of that?

Tsunade was the 2nd Hokage's granddaughter, but that was it. Jiraiya and Orochimaru weren't members of any powerful bloodlines.Neither was Minato.

>>153058542
I though the sage passed his power to his sons (the brothers), thus passed the same power to Naruto/Sasuke?

By themselves the brothers were just normal. As normal as super ninjas can be.

>>153058692
yeah but the sage didn't seal the old lady by himself. Hamura did it with him. Naruto and sasuke didn't get that power. Neji and Hinata have that power. It would have made more sense for naruto and hinata to seal the rabbit girl

>>153058683
>He was saying that Naruto shouldn't have tried to improve and get better. That Lee shouldn't have tried to be a ninja because of his lack of chakra.

He was right though. Naruto didn't need to train as he was handed so many free power ups.

Rock Lee shouldn't have bothered ad he never did anything ever

>>153058628
>Also the way the series ends, unless if you have special god like powers from birth, you are completely worthless in the naruto universe.

Except Naruto still has advisers, bodyguards and other people around him. Just cause you can shoot energy blasts doesn't mean you are perfect in all ways.

>>153058792
I'll give you the Six Path powerup but he did put in work every other time he improved.

>>153058774
>Neji and Hinata have that power.
What?
>It would have made more sense for naruto and hinata to seal the rabbit girl
What?

I don't remember nearly enough about who is related or reincarnated from who to keep up with this.

>>153058896
Aside from the Rasengan what else did he work hard on? And I mean REALLY work hard on. Getting Kurama to make you glow in the span of 1 week isn't the same as a lifetime of hardwork.

Naruto was handed nearly everything in life.

>>153058899
Neji and Hinatas clan are the descendents of the brother of the sage of 6 paths

>>153058896
>tapping into kyubi chakra when angered for free
>itachi implanted ultra powerful sharingan
>kyubi becoming friendly and giving full Chakra

>>153059060
Why are there eye powers weaker than the sages offspring?

>>153059060
I completely don't remember that. I just remembered that the Hyuga's were the pre-timeskip Uchiha's in terms of "super special clans".

>>153059146
because the brother of the sage was weaker than him.

>>153059175
watch The Last movie.

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>>153059216
Dude what the fuck are you even talking about, are you telling me you're actually as retarded as you seem?

What did Naruto work for in Part 2 lmao, I remember he did Sage mode training, and then training to awaken his tailed Beast aura but that's literally it besides him inventing new Rasengan techniques every fucking arc

>>153059209
>watch The Last movie
What's the name?

>>153059020
Learning the Rasenshuriken, Sage Mode, even the glowing form had to be obtained by beating Kurama into submission.

>>153059288
>>153059216
Don't do this here.

>>153059095
>itachi implanted ultra powerful sharingan
Man I can't get over what a shitty person Itachi was.

>gonna save my village my murdering my whole clan
>let's give my brother motivation to live on
>opps I made him an edgelord
>I'll let him beat me after becoming an edgelord so he'll be able to live a normal life from now on
>opps he met Madara who I worked for and knew would try and recruit him
>Madara told him my life story and he's edgier than ever
>I know! I'll implant Naruto with an eye to mind control Sasuke into protecting the village he hates against his will!

>I always loved you Sasuke.

For being a super genius he sure was fucking retarded.

>>153058896
Neji never said that you wouldn't have to put in work.
If you believe he was saying that as long as you're gifted then everything will be handed to you then you're misunderstanding him.
He was saying that natural talent is the deciding factor, but not that your life would be a stroll in the park just because of that, which is pretty much how it applies to Naruto.

>>153059209
>>153059309
>What's the name?
Dohoho.

Yeah I only read the manga and watched the Boruto movie. Anything extra is all unknown to me.

>>153059309
The Last: Naruto the Movie

>>153059288
Why are you so defensive about me speaking the truth? I was commenting on why natural talent is looked upon while hard worked is shit upon.

>>153058683
The 3 Sanin were still the students of the 3rd hokage. Also they were born during wartime so they were naturally stronger.

>>153059329
I'm not even gonna touch on any politics, I'm just commenting on his apparently deficient brain. Like how the fuck did he even manage to take my reply as an invitation to go on a sperg about his semi-political obsessions?

>>153056428
>naruto
>no natural talent
kekus orbitus

>>153059475
don't reply to /pol/. Just report them and ignore them. I almost took his bait but thought the better of it. Be the bigger person. Like naruto

Neji was my favorite character
I'm still mad as fuck about what happened.
He is literally the only "relevant" character that managed to not be ressurected because kishi hated him

>>153059445
Ironically its actually the second last movie...

>>153059311
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Sage_Mode
>Users of Sage Mode must possess "extreme chakra levels" to invoke senjutsu.[2]
Not his natural talent. Thank Kurama again.

>>153059595
>Naruto: "I feel like I can do anything"
>Doesn't revive the 20,000 dead ninjas from the war

>>153059537
I will, but not because of Naruto. I don't even like Naruto past the first seven volumes or so.

>>153057617
Rock Lee was badass initially. Im certain that he couldve taken on neji with the beatdown he put on gaara. Guy was literally the same as lee and Im sure neji would job to him.

>>153059604
>Not his natural talent. Thank Kurama again.

Actually he was born with a massive chakra pool because his mom had one

>>153058613
>>153057670
Guy almost opened a death gate to shave off obito's first life bar. He gave his life to taijutsu and did crazy one punch man training but still all he could do was shave off first life bar on a guy who was not even the final boss

>>153057617
>themes in this manga
guy had no endgame. therms, tone and formatting kept changing at editors whim

>>153059749
Forgot about that.

The asshole in me also wants to say "man, good thing he was born from two super geniuses so he could inherit good things"

>>153059595
>kishi hated him
Why, because he banged tenten?

>>153056428
Like it was said by others
Naruto was:
-The son of the 4th hokage which was a genius
-Had dna from a close cousin clan of the strongest clan in Narutoverse
-Had the strongest Bijuu (minus 10 tails) in his belly
-Was trained by one of the 3 sennins
-Child of the prophecy
Last but not least:
-Reincarnation of the son of the Sage of 6 paths

Not mention given godlike powers by the Sage.

Also Neji just repeated his father path, he died to save the main family and her future husband, he just got brainwashed just like 99% of the Narutoverse by Naruto's Talk no Jutsu into thinking his mentality was wrong when it wasn't.

>>153059400
The whole "everyone has reason for being shit so forgive them and love them" thing got soooo bulshit

>>153059288
he's either baiting or retarded

>>153059475
I was commenting on natural talent and hard work, and how it affects real life. But of course you got defensive because of /pol/ boogyman.

>>153059750
he reached the level of the first hokage according to madara, whom he nearly killed

>>153058628
naruto is also a retard. In the end he never improved in academia and basically hexed his way bay living 1000 lives with his clones and thus studying at 1000X normal speed

>>153056428
>>Gets his ass kicked by someone who had plot armor
ftfy

>>153059750
madara survived only by plot armor

>>153060091
He pretty much never developed any useful skill besides shit to fight with.

>>153060071
yet powerlevels had moved on. Its like guy became a master swordsman in the age of guns.

>>153060176
yeah he would not even have that if "hard work" was onlything he really had. Its not like he was patient, every other word out of his young self was "now now now" he wanted skills that took years in months.That is not true dedication or persistence

Honestly he's only right in a few cases. Hard work can bridge the gap except for the 5-6 people in the world who are literal reincarnations of the strongest people ever.

>>153060475
>Hard work can bridge the gap
except it can't. it can bridge people who are more or less equal but there are gaps in between the rankings. samurai is never going to outdo an A class ninja or even a B

>>153056428
But Nardo was:
>the son of Konoha's Hokage
>descendant of a clan that had lots of chakra
>through that clan, descendant of the Senju, Ashura and the Sage
>had a furry chakra nuke sealed inside him
>was the literal current reincarnation of a Ninja Demigod

Neji was 500% right.

>>153059595
Why did ino's dad not get rezed?

>>153059980
>coolest guy

>>153060945

Don't forget he was a literal child of prophecy that was destined to save the world. Not to mention Neji died to save him. He was so right in everyone has to stay in their station belief that he could not be more right even if it was outright stated in the manga.

Why didn't Kishi kill off Tenten who did legit nothing in the story instead of Neji? I literally forgot she existed throughout multiple points in the story.

>>153060019
Aryans are inferior to Slavs

Why are the Hyuga such jobbers?

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>>153061422
They play the long game

>>153061422
Author forgot they were suppose to be hot shit.

>>153060657
Except Mifune defeated a stronger version of a ninja the sannin thought was unbeatable.

>>153061422
as far as bloodlines go theirs is kind of meh. all the palm strike shit was visually cool but eventually it became clear that most ninja fight long rang and burning people with your eyes is cooler, even when they reach short range their specials need time to spin up(like a mini gun) time in which most opponents just jump out of range(as can be seen in "rescue sasuke" bit)

>>153061793
as far as I recall he had help and is not an average samurai himself

>>153061887
But the final boss had Hyuga eyes.

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>>153061523
Holy shit, I'm fucking dying

>>153056428
Naruto had a fucking beast power in him. He was one of the only 9 people of the planet that could have it. He was also the son of Hokage and reincarnation of divinities

way more elite than BEST CLAN IN THE LEAF

>>153061422
remember when Byakugan was better than the sharingan ?

neither do i

>>153060475
Hard work can only trumps talents when said person doesn't exert hard work themselves.

Daily reminder Neji was right all along and then died as only character for no fucking reason.

This fucker had it down. It's all talent, nothing to do with hard work. Literally 100% right about Nruto.

>>153062628

He must be feeling quite smug in the afterlife, after finishing finishing groaning over buying the hardwork meme.

>>153059400
Was he always supposed to be good or did Kishimoto change his mind at some point? Because the whole "torture my brother so he dedicates his life to kill me" isn't exactly a nice thing to do either. He could have just left and let the kid decide if he wanted to move on and try to be happy instead of being consumed by revenge and hatred.
All in all, Itachi did a lot of fucked up shit and nobody ever cared. Why do Uchihas always get away with it when they fuck up?

>>153063570
>Why do Uchihas always get away with it when they fuck up?
Because Itachi Murdered them all. and the First Hokage was to Idealistic. Second Hokage is where it at

>>153063570
The bigotry of soft expectations.

From Indra on downward, the Uchiha had a proven genetic predisposition toward chimping out and causing much mayhem. Even on the best of days, they just couldn't help themselves.

>>153057529
>won because fox chakra
nigga please

>>153056428
>Gets his ass kicked by someone who had no natural talent
>no natural talent
Yeah about that, anon

RIP Neji. You were the best trap there is.

>>153056428
>>Gets his ass kicked by someone who had no natural talent
>no natural talent
>learns shadow clones in a few hours
>learns tree walking as fast as the much more skilled Sasuke
>learns rasengan in a month, five faster than jiraiya
Don't kid yourself, Naruto was literally the most talented ninja in the show. He barely trained hard and made enormous leaps in skill when he did.

>>153061308
Because she's cute.

>>153063570
>Was he always supposed to be good or did Kishimoto change his mind at some point?
He had to have changed his mind somewhere along the lines. Just compare the first reunion Itachi to the Itachi later on, completely different characters.

>>153061308
>>153064911
Tenten and bugman I don't remember his name had so little presence in the story that if they threw themselves to take the hit for Naruto everyone would have just asked "who was that?"

>>153064911
who?

>>153063570
He probably changed his mind. If Itachi didn't turn out to be good, then Sasuke's entire story would've ended right after he killed him

>>153061308
>killing off someone with no emotional impact
for what purpose

>>153059595
Well, thankfully there is a Nejifag director that gives him plenty of screentime.
Hell even his ghost briefly appeared to naruto before the final fight

>>153062539
IT WAS OLDER NOT STRONGER (Which is true)

>>153065427
>>153063570


Yeah but you could see that he clearly wasn't evil. He seemed way different than the other akatsuki members.

Like his entire fighting style was passive and he didn't even try to kill anyone when it was very clear he was far stronger than most of his opponents

>>153056428
>no natural talent
Yeah sure at the time he was right but as the series went on he was fucking wrong

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>>153056428
>>Gets his ass kicked by someone who had no natural talent
Naruto literally only wins their fight because of the demon chakra he had implanted inside of him as a baby

>>153066176
Naruto takes a disadvantage and turns it into an advantage.

>>153066197
>being a jinchuriki
>a disadvantage
Yeah maybe for plebs who had a fucking troglodyte design their seal instead of Minato.

>>153066329
It caused him 17 years of pain and suffering, anon.

>>153066426
It was only like 13. After the timeskip he wasn't a shunned freak.

>>153066054
Wasn't he the only Atatsuki member we met before the timeskip? Because at that first meeting he was a horrible shitlord.

How many shonens avoid this pit fall of an all mighty destined to win protag?

How did Naruto support himself until he started earning money as genin? Did he get welfare? Who paid his rent? Did he have someone take care of him when he was an infant?

>>153066603
>After the timeskip he wasn't a shunned freak

He wasn't that much of a shunned freak before. We have seen him playing with the other kids, and he had Iruka and the Third looking after him. A little bullying from superstitious (and ungrateful) old fools hardly qualifies as pain and suffering.

>>153057695
Well its rather like hacking your way into innate talent.

>>153066777

Third gave him a room and food prob

>>153066426
That's not even a constant disadvantage, his mom never got shit for being a jinchuriki.

>>153056428
As in natural talent trumps hard work. Naruto's demon fox mana pool was not natural talent, but he certainly didn't work for it, at least not at that time.

>>153066706
one piece, kenichi, dbz, fate, a lot of shounens seemingly

>>153066668
How? He could have easily killed Sasuke.

Easily killed Naruto or captured him.

Easily killed Kakashi and all those other jobbers.

Also.like there's no way jiraiya could have fought both itachi and kisame at the same time.

And we know for a fact that what itachi said was a lie about them dying against him.

Jiraiya couldn't even beat pain and pain was easily one shot by itachi.

It was pretty clear that he was some kind of double agent

>>153066197

How was the fox a disadvantage? It was the only reason he could abuse the fuck out of the clone technique.

>>153066777

I don't think the Third Hokage was such an asshole to leave the son of their national hero in the streets, even if he didn't involve himself personally that much. If you died to save the ass of everybody in your village, the least your village owns you is taking care of your orphaned child.

>>153066911
>one piece

Mc winning almost every fight as a rookie against super strong and experienced fighters who are known world wide.

Destiny of D. To save the world

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>>153056428
NARUTO LITERALLY WON ONLY BECAUSE KYUUBI RE-OPENED ALL HIS CHAKRA POINTS AND GAVE HIM HIS OWN CHAKRA

nice argument but yeah I'm right, I'm a p retty big naruto fan

>>153066603
Yeah but during the timeskip he was constantly training away from his home and after the timeskip he was being hunted by a band of psychopaths for being a jinchuuriki. He might've had friends at that point but his life still sucked pretty hard.

>>153066911
>Kenichi
Lost about 2 fights after he started getting trained
>DBZ
You aint a Saiyan? Welcome to the shit pile
>Fate
Even Shirou losing is him becoming a superhero

>>153066706
By not caring about it. In Rurouni Kenshin, Kenshin is destined to win because he's the GOAT (Hiko notwithstanding) and the story is much more interesting because the stakes aren't "is Kenshin good enough at swords to win?" and instead are "Can Kenshin uphold his philosophy while protecting others from deadly threats?"

This is also why One Punch Man and the duel at the end of Return of the Jedi are good.

>>153066996
>I don't think the Third Hokage was such an asshole to leave the son of their national hero in the streets

I use to like the Third until we got to see more of the otherside of the Leaf. Third was right, he was a failure of a Hokage.

>>153067333
Depends on the story I guess, Rurouni Kenshin (and Trigun) focused on the protag upholding that ideal but that's not gonna work for everything. In a series about action how do you make the main character interesting, not over powered and relevant?

>>153067477
Kenshin was all three and the series was totally about action. It helped that the power levels in the series remained grounded.

>>153066932
To be fair, that went for Obito as well. At any point in the series, he could have nabbed Naruto, taken him into his little alternate dimension, and extracted the fucking fox at his leisure. Hell, if he did it in just right the way, the Leaf would have practically paid him to take the annoying little troublemaker off their hands.

The show said that the reason was because he was tiptoeing around Itachi, but I don't buy it for a second.

>>153067244
>You aint a Saiyan? Welcome to the shit pile
But Goku wasn't even the destined Saiyan, that was Vegeta. Goku wasn't even the strongest in the manga.

>>153059400
>itachi implanted ultra powerful sharingan
literally only usable against Sasuke. completely irrelevant.
>gonna save my village my murdering my whole clan
yes thats right
>let's give my brother motivation to live on
more like: I can't bring myself to kill my lil' bro cuz i love him too much. I'll make sure he becomes strong by making him hate me since the uchiha clan's power comes from love/hate.
>opps I made him an edgelord
???
>I'll let him beat me after becoming an edgelord so he'll be able to live a normal life from now on
what? more like: Sasuke is strong, now that i'm dead, he'll go back to konoha and he will be strong enough to take down Madara. i'll put an amaterasu trap in his eye to help him.

i could go on but im tired. fuck you you're wrong and just want to hate for free.

>>153056428
Finish the series before you talk.

>>153067660
I can't lie after the 3rd or so time Kenshin wrestles with killing someone I was tired of it. It's still great but a lot of the story really hinged on if you really cared if Kenshin ever killed someone.

>>153065241
Shino, Naruto would have umm...maybe felt a little bad

Tenten I think is the only character in his age group that he hasn't spoken to once

Why does everyone think the third hokage ordered, or even let the uchiha massacre happen when it was done behind his back, illegally?

>>153068094
How fucking useless are you as a leader of a small ass village to not know that someone plans on killing an entire clan?

>>153068094
He saw the build up, knew Danzo was sketchy and sneaking behind his back. What did he do to stop it?

The Uchiha were at the breaking point, about to revolt at anytime because they were retards and the Third didn't do much to solve anything.

He may not have ordered it but it was his inaction that allowed it.

>>153067791
Gonna skip that "mind control Sasuke to follow my will" portion eh?

>>153068168
>small ass village
It's hard to tell how big or small the population of the village is. Until I played Ninja Storm I didn't even know their were more members of the other clans.

>>153068299
i must've missed that, you don't mind elaborating?
:)
>implying there's any of that

>>153068168
Because the whole conspiracy was two people, both of whom were also sneaky ninja.
>>153068249
Peace talks, fostering cooperation, trying to permanently brainwash their leaders with a sharingan genjutsu.

>>153068168
>>153068249
the Third wanted to stop conflicts peacefully with discussions. i remember a scene where he asks Itachi to buy him more time, but afterwards Itachi goes to Danzo and decides to go with Danzo's plan because he doesn't think the Third can fix it all.

>>153056428
>Naruto
>No natural talent

He was literally one of the 'chosen one' of the series.

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>>153068419
1000 hours in mspaint

Naruto is a story of how procrastination doesn't always bite you in the ass, and how hard work can sometimes be done in short bursts.

>>153069059
>>153067791

>itachi implanted ultra powerful sharingan
literally only usable against Sasuke. completely irrelevant.

reading isn't that hard, stay in school

>>153059750
>almost kills fully ascended Madara who only lived because lul immortality
>not strong enough

>>153069059
Itachi was a monster.

Reminder that everything he says from that first panel until he cancels the Edo Tensei is tainted by the genjutsu to 'protect konoha' and may not even be the truth.

>>153069599

"itachi implanted ultra powerful sharingan guy" was >>153059095 I'm

>>153059400
>>153068299
>>153069059

And I'm just bitching about what a shitty character Itachi was.

>>153069715
>"I've always loved you Sasuke" could have just been the best thing to say to manipulate him into protecting the village

Makes you think.

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>It's hilarious that Naruto managed to fuck up every single message this shitty story was trying to tell

>Hard work will always overcome what one would call "natural talent/inherited skill
>Naruto is literally the reincarnation of Ninja Jesus, his mom is a former Jinchuuriki and his dad was the 4th Hokage

>Strategy and using your brain will always overcome raw power
>Power Creep gets so high that only Special snowflakes, and the Kages can stand toe to toe with later enemies, Shikamaru vs Hidan being the last strategy based battle.

>The New generation is to surpass the old
>Characters from previous generations are all legendary god mode status while the current generation are all shitters.

It's hilarious that a ton of shounen tries to do the weak protagonist who gets stronger through hard work trope, but almost every time they do the protagonist is blessed by some absurd power somehow.

So why was Hashirama such a loser? The guy was supposed to have beaten both Madara and the ninetails by himself, and he comes back with an unkillable body and does jackshit.

>>153070895
Or an asspull that happens out of nowhere
> Yusuke is a demon
> I can stop also stop time
> I now know sprit sword
Or actually using tactics to win like JoJo to be specific mid part 4 through 8 and HxH

>>153070895
It's a fault of most of the world designs. When you start your guy at lvl 1 and they gotta get to lvl 85 to matter the temptation to cheat is real alluring.

>>153056428
>no natural talent
>literally has a demon fox spirit garnering infinite (in regard to genin-level fights) chakra inside of him
>son of the 4th hokage

>>153070355
>Anime about ninjas
>Turns out it was actually the Harry Potter anime

>>153070929
He distracted Madara while Naruto, Sasuke, Tobirama, Hiruzen and Minato fought Coolest Guy

>>153056428
Because he was right? Writers need to stop the pandering to the audience with "he's an average nothing-special guy just like you, just work hard", because 9/10 they're not actually going for that. The truth is people are not equal and we don't want them to be equal either. We want to shine. Shonen protags are heroes and heroes are exceptional.

Naruto was never average. Yeah he trained but so did most everyone else. Working hard is not why he's god-level. It's not just Naruto, look at Dragon Ball. A hardworking guy like Tien will never catch up to Goku. Even Vegeta trails behind and he's got it all: the genes, the talent, hard work, motivations. There's just something about Goku that puts him above the rest.

I think a lot of people would have benefited from encouraged to realize their strengths and limitations rather than be influenced by feel-good shit. But that's not what battle shonen is about.

>>153058107
technically he worked harder than any other nigga in the world with his 100000 shadow clone training at the same time thing

>>153073237
That's easy mode training and you know it. Also he's the only one who can train that way.

>>153057695
Yeah, it's ironic this top dog vs underdog actually makes the top dog comes off as the real underdog in the end.

>>153066706
None because nobody likes watching losers.

>>153057529

Without the tail beast he'd still be leagues above average joe ninja. Bonus MP pool, demi god lineage (that may or may not have decided to activate based on his activities/world activities) and a leg up on who trained him (connections, just like real life, who you know can get you extreme far even if you're shit).

>>153066706
Death Note.

>>153059604
Jiraiya was considered a failure compared to orochimaru and could still master sage mode

>>153070355
"Get over that bitchy chick lusting for a dirtbag and go for that other qt" is a good message tbqh