If a villain makes you hate him does that make that villain

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Villains are bad people.

>>152854053
Yes but that rarely happens

Name a hateable non-edgy villain

Gilgamesh is popular but is he objectively a good villain?

>>152854095
Akio

>>152854095
Explain why being "edgy" as you call it, is an inherently bad trait in a villain.

>>152854053
>If a villain makes you hate him does that make that villain a good villain?

Usually yes, if you're hating him for the right reasons and not hating him because he's a shit character. And it also doesn't mean that all good villains should make you hate them. A good villain can sometimes be more likable than the protagonist. It always depends on the overall story.

Antagonists > villains

>>152854139
no but Kotomine is
Nui harime too.

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>>152854168
Because it means it's a cartoony villain and not very well-written.

>>152854095
Hagoromo Gitsune from Nurarihyon. Recently watched it too.

>>152854182
I should hate Kotomine for what he did in Zero, but I can't. Maybe >>152854171 is right.

>>152854168
It depends. If he's "edgy" for fun then it's usually a terribly written character and he's just creating problems for himself in the long run. If he has a reason to be edgy then it's usually fine.

>>152854095
chapter 1 Dio brando

>>152854168
Their whole character is just based around them killing or torturing people for fun which is just an easy way to write a villain.

>>152854168
Cheap way of making the spectator know "this character is a bad guy"

>>152854095
>Name a hateable non-edgy villain
Griffith.

>>152854095
The Sibyl system for example. They have their own reasoning but I couldn't but hate them

>>152854274
>>152854199
>edgy is a character trait that cannot appear in moderation

>>152854344
>in moderation
Do you even know what "edgy" means, retard?

>>152854280
>griffith
>non edgy

>>152854280
>lol I'll just rape that girl while staring you dead in the eye!

>>152854386
How the fuck is a villain supposed to be hateable and not edgy then? Villains are supposed to do edgy shit.

>>152854364
The dictionary definition yes.
On 4chan everybody uses their own special snowflake definition though, so I have no idea what you in particular think it means.

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Not necessarily. I do believe that it should be character first before their role, though.

>>152854053
if a villain makes you sympathize with them that's a good villain.

>>152854388
>rape
she wanted it

>>152854410
Something unnecessarily stupid like the main character of the Hatred video game.

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Recently watched GATE and I HATE the Emperor's faggot son.

Not even going to bother to save a pic of him.

>>152854479
That's not a definition.
Also, I don't really play video games, so I have no idea what you are talking about.

>>152854364
>reaching from unorthodox to completely above and beyond any reason
Yeah now way there could be different shades of edge. Just for clarity's sake, which definition are we going with today?

>>152854501
>>152854506
Evil for the sake of it.

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yes, and I hate him with a passion

>>152854522
Somebody like Satania?

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>>152854469
can't blame her for that

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>>152854053
Maybe

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>>152854539
She is pretty edgy isn't she

>>152854410
That's hyperbole.
Not everyone uses Edgy to describe 'Thing I don't like'
People do legit use Edgy as a reason to describe series they don't like
Be it that they're overwhelmingly depressing, to the point you'd honestly question why it's and escapist medium or overly violent, gore ridden and kill happy to the point you can't even invest in a character because they could die at a moment's notice or it's outright absurd.
The problem is that /a/ is morally bankrupt or out of touch with human sensibilities so they don't understand why X is edgy and take it as a buzzword, and thus it spread as a 'nice buzzword troll' or 'let's ironically use it' thing

>>152854643
that sounds like some alternative facts

>>152854643
>Not everyone uses Edgy to describe 'Thing I don't like'
I did not imply that.
But the word edgy really does mean a dozen different things here, probably because there is no dictionary definition to fall back on.
It pretty much *is* a buzzword.

>>152854685
Because 4chan has this amazing skill at mangling terms until they don't mean anything anymore.

>>152854643
not him but
>kill happy to the point you can't even invest in a character because they could die at a moment's notice
this proves his point, that's not really edgy and has happened in storytelling for almost as long as there's been storytelling

>>152854718
This is a thread about character traits, not settings, if you didn't notice.

>>152854731
yes and as an example greek myths are full of characters like that

>>152854095
More like, name a non-edgy villain.

>>152854053
Not necessarily, especially if you hate him because he's just nothing but pure evil, like a Disney villain.

>>152854827
And they're all fucking retarded

>>152854863
The asshole from Blue6?

>>152854863
Fate from Negima

>>152854898
>fate
>not edgy
nigger what

That's a bad villain.
Villains should be liked and understandable like the villains in Avatar Legend of Korra.

good tier villain:

Johan from Monster. a sociopath who who coldy kills many people in a calculating way to further his goals. He's charming as well as brilliant so he's a great villian

shit tier villain:

that bitch from Akame Ga Kill. Her whole stichk is that she loves to kill people that are a challange, and thus she just kills kills and kills everyone around her. Definition of edgy because her only trait is "Killing people is fun! muh strong survive philosophy!"

>>152854095
Rachel from Tower of God

>>152854827
Almost all greek myths are glorified fables.

Charisma is the most important aspect of a villain.

>>152854922
Not really. We all have different opinions on what's right and what's wrong. If you say it like that it's impossible to judge a villain objectively

>>152854944
Yeah fuck her I can't wait for her to get her comeuppance

>>152854827
>greek myths
Thanks for using stories for children as a standard

>>152854975
regardless, if people are using edgy in a way that it can apply to glorified fables that are now taught to schoolchildren then the original anon is correct that it's nothing more than a buzzword

>>152855014
That's pretty much true unless we judge them in the form of consistency.

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>>152854053
No. If a villain makes you love him and root for him instead of the protagonists, that makes that villain a good villain.

But sadly this isn't common enough in anime.

>>152855121
you prove my point, retards use edgy in a way that it would apply to those stories for children

>>152855205
That generaly makes the villain an antivillain.

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>>152854053
How can you even hate smug villains?

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>>152855210
I disagree. Plenty of actual villains in this situation. I can't come up with any anime examples, but there are lots elsewhere.

>>152855308
Anti-villains are actual villains.

>>152855322
Ok, so they're villains. So are you agreeing or disagreeing with the 'villains that you like are the best' statement then? I am confused.

>>152855354
I'm not him.
I'm just pointing out the definition of villain encompasses anti-villains.

Villains are people who do bad things.
Anti-villains are villains with second thoughts (very roughly).

>>152855322
what exactly is an anti-villain? moral ends and immoral means? immoral ends and moral means? both?

>>152855412
An anti-villain is to a villain what an anti-hero is to a hero.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villain#Sympathetic_villain

>>152855308
An anti-villain is simply a villain that is 'redeemable' so to speak, and at the same time the villain is a literary construct. There's no such thing as a villain in real life, because the entire point of the villain is to serve some sort of narrative purpose, the same way antagonists, protagonists, support characters, the mentor archetype, etc. have narrative purpose.
I think the good or bad of a villain should be judged based on how well it works within the narrative.

>>152855412
Anti-villains run the gamut from being "realistically evil" (i.e. they're not complete fucking monsters, they do things with purpose, they have their own standards, they may or may not have a good or at least understandable goal, etc.) to being "on the wrong side of history" - people who would've been the protagonist of a heroic story but aren't the hero of this particular story, who are only bad because their agenda comes into direct conflict with the protagonist's.

>>152855456
Now that I've linked to the article, I really regret doing so. It's a shit article.
Let's try this. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AntiVillain

>>152855456
anti-heroes are usually moral ends immoral means but it's not so clear with villains

>>152855477
that's helpful thank you

>>152855486
okay so that says both could apply, thank you. it just doesn't seem like a very useful term to me since it's pretty much boils down to 'relateable', right?

>>152855688
It boils down to "a villain who could concievably be the hero". An anti-villain can be more or less indistinguishable from an anti-hero.

>>152854280
Not a villain

>>152855532
>anti-heroes are usually moral ends immoral means
They can also be cowards or gamblers or sex-fiends. The ways of the anti-hero are many.

Also, fuck you Hiro.

>>152855851
>Also, fuck you Hiro.
What did he do this time?

>>152855969
I'm range-banned because apparently there is a shitposter in my IP range. The only way I am allowed to post is by 4chan Pass.
I just had to spend 10 minutes trying to log into that pass.

>>152856031
Welcome to my world, I've had to have a pass for years at this point because moot saw fit to IP range ban my country.

>>152856056
I wonder what percentage of us is thus blackmailed.

>>152856056
>tfw venezuelan and have to spend a portion of my already diminishing funds on a fucking 4chan pass just to get my funposting high

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>>152854095
>Name a hateable non-edgy villain

>>152856084
inb4 Hiro puts one on the US

>>152856117
You're right, fuck this bitch.

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>>152856117
Except she's not hateable she's pure love.

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>>152854053
What about Biba kind of villian?

>>152857649
He's the bad type of villain as Biba is nothing more than a plot device so that Mumei can be a damsel-in distress so that MC can grow some balls and save her.

>>152857751
Will he make a return in S2?

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>>152854053
A good villain must also be a badass. Pic related.

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>>152857809

>>152857772
I fucking hope not. He's the prime cause of Kabenari going to shit.

>>152854199
Why are you posting shit whilst not even knowing what a villain is?

>>152854975
>>152855121
About as real as christianity. Edgy, right?

>>152854095
Andou

>>152857856
I love Pariston! Does he count as "edgy"?

>>152854095
Griffith
Dio

>>152859678
>non-edgy

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>>152854095