>Demons are the good guys >Angels are the bad guys

>>152681033
Ayase a shit

>>152681033
>I can't into fantasy
>I can't be imaginative
>I am posting terriblely obvious bait
>I guzzle cock like its water in the desert
>I should probably just kill myself

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>>152681033
>I have only read 2 manga

>>152681033
Checked.
Best girl

>>152681033
and the pope is the big bad guy, of course

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>>152681033
Why is this so common in anime? I understand not all demons being evil because Japanese "demons" (yokai) are more a various collection of spirits of varying degrees of malevolence and benevolence. But what's with Japan's obsession with making angels evil? Hell, in one of the Final Fantasy games the Virgin Mary is literally the final boss.

This is way too weird to be coincidence, there must be some kind of reasoning behind this.

>>152682068
Western mythology is foreign, exotic, and spooky to them

>>152682068
white devil bomb japan

>>152682101
Same works in reverse

>>152682068
Christianity came and converted everybody.

Japan wants its shrine maidens back

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>>152682335
Japan treats its shrine maidens like shit and doesn't deserve them. They should become nuns and remain unbullied.

What is Gabriel Dropout?

>>152682068

God, and by extension, Angels want to force restrictions on humanity and have them behave in a specific way.

Satan, and by extension especially Demons, wish to remove those restrictions and allow humanity to do whatever the fuck they want.

It's not really much of a leap, honestly.

>>152682296
Yup. Just human nature. If you've lived your whole life with angels as a constant symbol around you, they're not really all that unusual and kind of played out.

No one uses christian mythology right outside of symbolism.

>>152682601
What is it?
I've never seen it but a lot of people talks about it

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>>152681033
Really sick of this, honestly

>>152682621
Where did you get this bullshit from? Satan's goal is to misguide humans and spread fear and evil. More often than not he is just literally a symbol of evil in the bibel.

Lucifer also isn't a fallen angel, that's just a mistranslation.

>>152682650
So, basically you want the jealous God back?

>>152681256
*mangas

>>152681033
Just like real life!

They generally always use the same fucking watered down inspiration in anime, I'm fucking tired of it. It's always half assed. Fuck if I see Joanna d'Arc in another anime.

Any kind of mythology or reference is always represented poorly in anime. It's literally just the author going "wow it's so cool to have this in my work" without any thought behind it beyond that. You never get the feeling that the author has deep knowledge of the references he uses. It always comes over as some kind of weird popculture shit that developed in japan of things that should have deep historical roots, be it fiction or not.

>>152682825
>mistranslation
I don't think that works here, Anon. It depends on which books and works and whatever you consider canon.
>Satan's goal is to misguide humans and spread fear and evil. More often than not he is just literally a symbol of evil in the bibel.
Maybe for The New Testament.

>>152683098
Only the bible, the quran and the torah can be considered canon and in all those works Satan is represented in the same kind of way.

>>152683091
Depending on the alternatives, I think I prefer it this way. Nothing is worse than a writer drawing a parallel and trying too hard to make it obvious.

European man's christianity was pummeled into them. Of course they'll be salty about it.

>having faith in a god that creates a world with the capacity to be evil
>makes it possible that a "demon" such as Satan/Lucifer/whateverthefuck can exist and behaves the way it does
>this somehow means that Satan/Lucifer is bad and god is not
>this also means god made them intentionally that way because lol god doesn't make mistakes

>>152683154
He didn't seem so bad in The Book of Job. He only fucked with Job because God told him he could.

>>152683154

Satan barely shows up at all and in two of the three instances he does he's just calling out God's bullshit.

>>152683154
>bible
but which version famalan
I like the KJV so we can be like the good old puritans that started america

>>152683195
If you have faith it doesn't need to make sense, now go tip your fedora somewhere else.

I don't know about the reasons you guys are trying to pull out of your asses but they only use this dark is light and light is dark trope because it's cool and edgy, there is nothing else behind it.

>>152683229
He also banters with god really well

>>152683293
God/Satan manzai when?

>>152683260
Satan doesn't even really refer to a specific established character, mate.

>>152683265
Why should I put "faith" into a being that does consistently awful things?
It tests us for faith and then gets mad when we fail?
That's not benevolent, that's malevolent.

>>152681033
>Show introduces a religion
>Leader gets power hungry or was the big bad all along

>>152683091
Read Kawakami's stuff if you want a autist writing a novel.

>>152683446
I'm trying to think of an instance where a priest was an important character and didn't end up corrupt, disillusioned, or dead, and I'm drawing a blank.

>>152683338
Satan never existed in the bible, it was a medieval church creation to scare peasants.

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>>152683510
I am too, salty nips hate filthy gaijin religion, of course the crusaders and the forces of heaven are always the undisputed bad guys

>>152683572
They really like nuns, though.

>>152681033
I'm sick of nips and their hatred of organised religion in anime slanty eyed scum

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An angel bullies a demon girl
>Oh my fucking god Raphiel is so evil how is she an angel!!!??.
She's literally doing gods work

>>152683661
To be fair satania is so stupid it would be a sin NOT to fuck with her, I think even Jesus would agree with me there.

>>152683510
It's pretty funny that even in Highschool DxD where Angels, Fallen and Devils are all friendly the Catholic church is the most chaotic, easily misled and fanatic group.

>>152683523
Satan is just another name for the concept of evil in general. The bible is barebones as fuck and everything popular in it like Lucifer is loosley based on a few lines of misinterpreted text and bloated up with romanticism.

>>152683195
The only way I can rationalize god is by imagining that god is a culmination of the entirety of the human spirit throughout all time, like a massive disco-ball of fantastic colors and innumerable facets, in which every facet contains the life of some human, past, present, or future
God doesn't necessarily have a will because of the immense clash of interests.

But what the fuck do I know about spirituality? I'm fucking stupid.

>>152683779
Dunno, all the fanfiction is a lot more fun than the canon so far.

>>152683919
"Fanfiction" huh? Here we go again with the bible is just ancient fiction meme.

>>152683971
Reading comprehension, buddy, he didn't call the Bible fanfiction but said that the fanfiction is more fun that what's in the Bible.

>>152683381
It's to fool yourself and accomplish your goals before recurring to suicide

>>152684045
Take your own advice before you offer it to anyone else.

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>Both sides are equally shitty
>Demons are just following their basest nature
>Angels are experimenting on anything they can get their hands on, and consider themselves above morality and judgement

>>152684129
I miss AS

>>152684129
I wanted to read this manga but all of /a/ said it was shit.

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>>152684202
I went in for the incest, and was disappointed when I found the majority of it was about cringey angel shit. Brown loli a best, though, and i'm glad it had a happy ending

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>>152684129
>nihilism

>the church is evil

Really? Every single time?

>>152683779
I am familiar with the verses you are referring to and am curious about in what way you believe they have been misinterpreted.

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>>152681033
Honestly I'm fine with it, but it is retarded when they go with the stupid "angels are just humans with wings" aesthetic.

If you're going to do the "angels are evil/amoral bastards" route, either go full on Old Testament with it, or don't bother with it at all.

>>152684359

>the church wants to control the people's thoughts

ts not hard to figure this out, I did when I was 10

It's almost like religious organizations are incredibly corrupted and hypocritical.

>>152683276
bingo

You might also add that their understanding of Abrahimic religions is probably pretty low.

>>152684359
>A large organized group of fanatics who have a bad history of crimes for the sake of their God
It's not a bad trope, but it is overused.

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>>152684427

>>152683154
>Only the bible, the quran and the torah can be considered canon
The torah and the "new testament" are in fact compatible, but the quran is not. So calling all three "canon" would be an error. I'm not going into detail here but this is clear from the contents of the books.

>>152684382
Lucifer is misinterpreted as a name although it is just latin for star. This misinterpretation was only possible because people interpreted a translation of the original to begin with.

>>152684517
Go back to whatever shithole you came from.

>>152684382
the times Satan are mentioned in the old testament can be simpy be translated as "adversary" or "accuser", simpy evil that is present in everybody.
one time he is mentioned is actually a mistransation on a babylonian king's name.
in the book of job he takes a more individualized form but still far from a the modern concept of "Satan".
In all the times the word is mentioned it never directly states that there was a "fallen angel".

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>>152684571
Sorry, I just picked a webm out of my silly hat may may folder, hopefully this one is more relevant

I don't even really believe in God, but I like Christianity in general, no reason to hate all religion

>>152684590
Do you know Zechariah chapter 3?

My memory of these things is dim, but if I recall correctly (with the help of google) then the beginning of Genesis, Isaiah 14, Ezekiel 28, and Zechariah 3 are the only places where satan is mentioned. There's also a mention in psalms which could just as easily be interpreted "adversary".

>>152684629
Don't apologize. Just stop posting that shit.

>>152681033
What's strange about it? Even in the Bible they're like that.

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>>152685073
Too close to home?

>>152684263
>all of /a/ said it was shit
I didn't read it, but that means it's actually awesome.

>>152683195
>creates a world with the capacity to be evil

Yes you fucking nigger, it's called free will. Which I'd rather have than be brainwashed to be good and have to sit and read your trite bullshit with a smile on my face.

>>152684416
Not every angel is a fucking Throne or Seraph.

>>152685273
>free will is more important than happiness
Whatever you say.

>>152685273
And yet it damns us for deciding against its wishes?
Worshiping a deity is exactly the same as being a puppet.

>>152685327
then you wouldn't REALLY be yourself, then. You'd just be a doll that god plays with for all eternity.

>>152685327
Yeah, I'd rather be free and miserable than a brainwashed drone.

>>152682942
trolling is a art sir

>>152685399
>>152685394
>>152685353
>if you're not a fedora-muching atheist then you must be a mindless evangelical moron without any individuality
>because there is no such thing as balance
>because all the geniuses who were religious were just brainwashed drones

I mean, at least you idiots aren't as dumb as the religious idiots, but you're still idiots nonetheless.

>>152685353
No, it's the same as being a child.

A parent will trust you with the house. You throw a party.

>Wow, I'm getting punished for throwing a party even if you were the one that left me alone. What a shit parent.

Also, Jesus died for your sins. Like that friend that that convinced your parents that it was his idea to throw the party and you were just pressured.

>>152684590
Satan is tossed in the lake of fire in book of rev.

>>152685327
Well anon I agree with you. After having experienced many things I can say, fuck free will. To me free will + suffering is meaningless. I'd rather be brainwashed and happy.

>>152684590
>In all the times the word is mentioned it never directly states that there was a "fallen angel".
This is only true for the Old Testament. The Epistle of Jude blatantly states that demons are fallen angels. It doesn't say anything about Satan specifically, but if one is to believe Satan is a demon then, consequently, he would also be a fallen angel.

Although yeah, all that stuff about Lucifer is just a weird interpretation about some verses referring to the king of Babylon, who is called the Morning Star (Lucifer) fallen from glory. But then again, it was just some figurative language for the king. There's little reason to believe it was about Satan.

>>152685533
While I agree with you anon, this is /a/ and we don't go to parties or throw parties.

>>152685575
I hope you realize you just admitted to being weaker-willed than Shinji. Even Shinji accepted that pain is necessary.

>>152685394
>You'd just be a doll that god plays with for all eternity.
I already am a doll. Everyone is, if god is real, and rebelling against him eventually results in becoming someone you're not, as you lose the ability to repent when you end up in hell. Or so I was taught at Sunday schools.
>>152685399
That's too bad then, that's exactly what you'll become when you reach heaven. Or hell.

>>152685575
Wow, how big of a puss do you even have to be, might as well just shoot yourself at this point.

>>152685579
To add on to this anon, that portion of Isaiah (chapter 14) is extremely suggestive.
>How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn!
Setting aside whether "morning star is a name or not, stars in the bible are symbolic of angels.

>>152683276
Right on the dollar, the only manga where I enjoy this is Helck, because both sides have their evils and their goods.

Though you could argue it is more towards demons being the good guys, but I would say because they would be the focus group.

>>152685672
>working hard and suffering is better than achieving happiness in an easy and ideally reliable way
Wew lad.

>>152685747
>he doesn't like challenge
pansy

>>152685619
>>152685672
I know man it's fucked up. Your comments don't even faze me.

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>>152685747
The fact that we suffer makes the reward WAAAAY much better in my opinion anon, but you can live in your shell if you want to.

>>152685747
Nothing worth having is free.

>>152685769
Depends on what the net gain is.

>>152685782
>Your comments don't even faze me

Holy shit guys, we just messed with the wrong internet BADASS

>>152685747
>working hard and suffering is unnecessary to achieve happiness

You do realize you can't just decide to be happy, right? You have to work for it; neets don't get depressed because that's how they naturally are, they get depressed because they're spineless fucks who haven't given themselves any purpose in life. Happiness isn't dependent on religion, although it sometimes helps, depending on the person.

>>152685827
if you know that then WHY ARE YOU STILL FUCKING WITH ME

>>152685839
Religion I'd say is more an attachment to culture, Japan is very non-religious, but loves it's little traditions and parades that can be seen as "illogical" but they enjoy it all the same.

That's why the citizens there are shaky about their beliefs in a God but are not atheists.

>>152685806
I think that's true, but I don't believe that I have any money, resources, or ability that I can exchange for "something worth having".

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>>152685868
>You don't phase me-
>STOP FUCKING WITH ME

Every time

>>152685932
Not the internet or computer you are using right now?

Obviously that's something that does not make you "happy" why not get rid of it?

>>152685868
>Religion I'd say is more an attachment to culture

I agree, that's not necessarily contradictory to what I said. I'm just saying that being happy is more than just submitting yourself to God and being a "sheeple" or whatever, it's not that easy.

>>152685953
You fucker you got me

>>152686024
wrong guy >>152685915

>>152685796
>>152685769
>>152685806
>>152685839
You missed the point.
Of course we humans get more satisfaction from getting something through hard work than just stumbling upon it, but the point is: what if we could get that feeling of satisfaction easily? Better yet, what if we could be happy and feel fulfilled all the time, no suffering, no pain, no bullshit?
Yes, if it was possible it would be a much easier life, but who fucking cares? Following that train of thoughts you should stop paying for food and go hunt animals in the wild.

>>152685976
Who said anything about happiness.

>>152686054
some people do hunt like that though

>>152686054
I'd just bash my head into a wall until it turned to paste, no one makes me happy without my permission.

>>152686101
I wish I was with them (srs)

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>>152681033
>Demons and angels are both evil, but in different ways
>Angels cause destruction on a widespread scale
>Demons torture people personally

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>>152682650
>Demons are the good guys
>Angels are the bad guys

>>152686054
You'd become dull to the feeling of satisfaction and demand even greater satisfaction.

Even Adam and Eve were not exempt from then human nature of greed.

>>152686054
As we advance we get new problems, from hunting for our survival to finding new discoveries in science, becoming artists, or just try to kill themselves (figuratively) with high-stakes stunts.

Why do you think rich people who live the kind of life you are describing do such outrageous dangerous things? Because it's in our instincts to DO something with our lives.

Imagine if we would abandon the idea of classical good and evil in fiction to begin with. Wew, lad, suddenly every work improves dramatically.

Is god real?

>>152686054
>Following that train of thoughts you should stop paying for food and go hunt animals in the wild

There can be balance. You're taking everything you hear to the extreme, which can only lead to problems, although man in his natural state probably was more fulfilled than man is now, but a modern man in the natural state of man originally probably would be miserable, yeah. This is for societal reasons though, we do need meaning in our lives to feel satisfaction. An atheist can't just feel happy by deciding he believes in God one day, you have to find something you genuinely enjoy, and if you can't, you'd better just make yourself enjoy something, because if you can't then you might as well kill yourself, although I believe most humans could if they cared.

>>152686273
this

>>152686273
There is, that just requires good story telling, and Anime isn't the best medium to look for good story telling.

>>152683229
For clarification, there is some debate over who that character is in the book of Job. There is a prominent group of exegetes who think the book is referring to an entirely different being than Satan, referred to as "satahn". It was a judicial post, which might be thought of as the contemporary "devil's advocate", meant only to test a person's piety, but not being evil themselves.

Regardless, the Book of Job is incredibly dense and confusing.

>>152683779
This is a genuine lie, and it's been disproven countless times. Satan is a prominent theological figure in both Judaism and Christianity, and is more than just a personified representation of evil. That interpretation of Satan didn't exist until the nineteenth century at the earliest. You can blame Protestants for that particular heresy.

>>152686279
Yes.

>>152686279
no

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>Both of them are huge assholes
>No one's in the right
>The only way to win is to reject every god and punch every demon

>>152686483
>Satan is a prominent theological figure
Not in the canon. He is a prominent figure in popculture, no one is denying that.

>>152686559
Rejecting the concept of "Tradition" is a very Protestant thing to do, anon.

>>152686551
Haha, time to go full Neutral.

>>152686551
someone's been playing SMT I see
Neutral is always best

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>>152684416
Archangels are literally just humans with wings in appearance, retard.

>>152686632
The only angels ever described as having wings are Seraphim, and they're very far removed from humans.

>>152686680
And katanas are shit swords which is why the Japanese used them as weapons.

>>152686601
It's very common to reject the idea of satan altogether in christian communities.

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>>152686279
Yes she is

>>152686746
It's very heretical, yes. Protestants tend to be that. It's not surprising. It's also not correct.

>>152685282
The angels that are closest to God are all inhuman and weird as fuck. Cherubim have four heads, never have to turn around, have four wings covering most of their body, and their sole job is to continuously announce the glory of God. The other angels are more pure radiant light that can take different shapes.

>>152684551
>compatible
To who? Not to a jew, new testament isn't real to them.

>>152686782
>doesn't take the bible as base for the entire belief
>rather believes in "traditional" carry overs of old folklore of corrupt priests
>calls other people heretics

>>152682068
japs are satanic and the bombing was a punishment from God

>>152686868
The New Testament was canonized more than three centuries after Christ's death. It was the result of Tradition, which was guided by the Holy Spirit. If Tradition is fallible, then Scripture must be, by definition, fallible. Denying Tradition is to deny Scripture. Protestantism is logically indefensible.

>>152686286
>man in his natural state probably was more fulfilled than man is now
Religion aside, I really think this is true. It was a hard life, but hard doesn't equate unhappy. Today we have to deal with a lot of bullshit we did not evolve for: finding a job, working artifical jobs for 8 fucking hours a day, the need for money (number one cause of unhappiness, ever), a house, a car.
Yes, in our natural state we had to deal with other stuff like cold, predators, hunger and illnesses, but we are literally built to face these things.
In all honesty I think killing a prey that will feed your tribe is much more satisfying than sitting at a desk all day to make your employer even richer.

Maybe I'm wrong about all this, I can't know how fulfilling were our ancestors' life.
What's sure is that people don't like to hear this. Maybe they don't like to be told our society is broken, I have no idea. I think the only ones who are willing to hold this stance are those dissatisfied with their lives and society in general. That's our way to "rebel" against the system. To be fair most of my problems wouldn't exist if I was a hunter-gatherer (assuming I would be alive at my age).

>>152681033
Fuck you, I liked Viper GTS.

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>>152686871
sounds familiar

>>152686932
This doesn't even make any sense. The bible is the only true word about christian beliefs period.

>>152681060
You are a shit

>>152687054
The Bible was written by men decades after the events in question. The books were canonized centuries later. If Tradition doesn't exist, the Bible wouldn't exist. If Tradition was fallible, the Bible would be fallible. To assert that the Bible is infallible is to assert that Christian Tradition is infallible, and thus The Catholic Church, as the only source of that Tradition, is infallible. To say otherwise is logically fallacious. You need to do some serious introspection if you think otherwise, because you've been heavily misguided.

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>>152686934
>What's sure is that people don't like to hear this

Read Rousseau; his utopian society is kind of dumb, but I like his view on humanity in nature a lot, even if it might be inaccurate, there is some wisdom to it. Or even Thoreau or something might be up your alley. But yeah, I think living in nature is probably much more fulfilling if you were raised in it, which we weren't so we find ourselves in a tricky situation, however, we, as rational creatures, have the ability to find meaning in things. As we drift farther and farther from nature, our will becomes less and less dependent on our instincts. Nihilism came out of this realization, but it is our duty as human beings to find meaning and not be depressed, or else there is really no reason to not commit suicide if you can't find meaning. There's really no going back to the state of nature unless we are all nuked back to the stone age, so we might as well keep going forward and learn to adapt. I see it as a positive thing.

>>152687134
You contradict yourself with every additional post you make. You just give additional examples why it's perfectly fine to reject certain traditions since traditions were and are inconsistent to begin with and are heavily customized by local communities for centuries now.

>>152686279
maybe

>>152681256
>not playing your manga

>>152685394
>then you wouldn't REALLY be yourself, then
Define the Self, because obviously you've reached the conclusion thousands of years of philosophers have been grasping for.

>You'd just be a doll that god plays with for all eternity.
That's exactly what you are already. God's omnipotence and omniscience means that when he gave you your soul (and thus your personality), he knew how it would develop right from the start. Saying that's free will and not railroading is like saying dropping a solid object isn't railroading - after all, you're not REALLY applying any force to it, it just decided to fall "on its own", and how it spins is "up to itself" - even though we can calculate exactly how it would tumble before it's released. God is the friend who knows what pizza you'll order depending on which pizzeria you go to, except the pizza is your entire life and the pizzeria is the world he designed.
And from a biological point of view we are nothing BUT dolls.

>>152686934
>Maybe I'm wrong about all this,
You are. The ancient Greeks and Bablyonians wrote about this shit too and they were all "hurr I bet they were happier before" muh golden age of peace and prosperity.
Happiness is built, not natural. What you're talking about is ignorance - nobody is happier than the dumbass because he has nothing to worry about.

>>152688458
fucking sophist.

>>152688609
That's literally what it is though. Fuck even the fucking Bible does this shit
>man was in paradise
>eats the Fruit of Knowledge, his eyes are opened, he gains sentience, the sense of self, sense of future and past, sense of symbolic reasoning, innate morality
>suddenly he's not in Paradise anymore

>>152687134
heresy.
the european catholic church had different beliefs once it entered europe. thus making the bible the only almost pure source of christianity.

>>152688458
>Happiness is built, not natural

Nigger what the fuck are you talking about? Pigs are happier than we'll ever be because they're stupid, and humans were probably a lot happier back when they were more stupid. I'm not the guy you're responding to, but happiness can be natural OR built. Rational being have to build it, and more base creatures don't. It's pretty hard to go back to being Brazilian savage tier stupid though, so we HAVE to build our happiness out of necessity.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, I don't wanna be a caveman, just saying that the people you're quoting technically aren't wrong.

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>>152687085
I am, but so is Ayase. I'm taking her down with me in a world of shit

>>152686811
Of course, depending on who you ask you will get all sorts of answers. But if you examine the material yourself, you will find that
1)Between the Quran and Old Testament/New Testament there are very clear contradictions that cannot be reconciled.
2)That if the Old Testament is viewed through New Testament theology, it jells just fine. The reverse is also true, though Orthodox Jews would never admit that.

To be clear this is not a matter of perspective at all, it's simply based on the statements made in the material itself.