Princess Mononoke

>>152507348
>Lady Eboshi did nothing wrong.
That fucker did everything wrong.

>>152507348
Exactly, that's why Miyazaki had to include the Forest God or it wouldn't have worked.
>>152508463
>Protect leprose people when no one does.
>Protect women who suffered from the war and/or abuse.
>Make them work for their freedom by manufacturing guns. Giving them both purpose and protection.

She did better than that lazy emperor or that wolf dick hungry girl.

>>152507348
>I don't think an environmental aesop really works in a medieval setting.
It does when "nature" is literally personified in a god and someone kills it. Plus you have all the "new technology" guns and industry.

>>152507348
The old man who was the emperor's servant was the only interesting character in the entire movie

>>152509529
That's some contrarian tier shit because no one even knows who you're talking about

>>152507348
I mean she almost killed everyone in her village by killing a god.

>>152508463
You missed the point of the movie.

>>152507348
Isn't it nice to have movies about a violent conflict that doesn't try to portray either side as an evil villain?

>>152514789
It portrays both sides as being wrong and Ashitaka as being perfect 100% right all the time. When both sides look like dislikeable idiots any attempt at moral ambiguity is lost.

It's very black-and-white.

>>152514897
ashitaka isn't a side. both sides were wrong but they were both right too anon

>>152510856
The old man with the funny voice that lead the emperor's expedition to steal the deer god's head.

File: 6211-30656527.jpg (165KB, 1000x752px) Image search: [Google]

165KB, 1000x752px

What was his fucking problem?

>>152510856
yes him >>152515088

>>152514973
He is a side, for fuck's sake he's the protagonist. Both sides had goals but they did not agree with him therefore both sides were the antagonists.

People are confused about this movie. It's a story about a good guy trying to unite two bad guys.

>>152514897
The annoying thing is that Ashitaka has no solutions whatsoever. He just keeps spouting "let's get along" and the core conflict gets pushed aside for a ludicrous ending with literal magic that fixes everything. Apparently it doesn't really matter how badly you fuck up the environment; convenient magic will undo the damage anyway.

>>152515533
The problem is that people are too used to the idea of a clean solution. Sometimes there isn't a solution. And the magic didn't really fix everything, both sides got pretty fucked

>>152515344
Being the protagonist doesn't make you some new faction. He's just an idealist that sympathizes with everyone

>>152515533
>convenient magic
The magic was only that time for some seeds went a little faster. They could have pulled a 'some weeks later' instead.

>>152515762
>both sides got pretty fucked

How convenient then that the movie ended before we could see how horrific the lasting effects were, as everyone makes peace.

>>152515943
>Being the protagonist doesn't make you some new faction.

Yes it does, because his point of view did not follow that of Eboshi or the animals. He was an outsider who forced his own righteousness onto others. He's preachy and perfect, AKA Miyazaki's ideal hero.

Like all of Miyazai movies, it's not that good (but it is better than a lot of his other shitty movies) and people still love it.

>>152516131
Princess Mononoke was a lot like Nausicaa, unfortunately it didn't do much to fix the flaws of its predecessor other than not make the MC Jesus.

>>152515088
He was too based to work for the emperor.

>>152515088
He was a triple agent.

>>152515088
He didn't care if the world would burn, as long as he earns a few pennies.

>>152515533
>The annoying thing is that Ashitaka has no solutions whatsoever. He just keeps spouting "let's get along" and the core conflict gets pushed aside for a ludicrous ending with literal magic that fixes everything.

But that's 99% of the protagonists in Nip cartoons.

>>152515088
He was America

>>152515533
I think it's literally against Japanese entertainment regulations to have complex moral dilemmas in shows aimed at youth, so the message can never really be anything other than "daijoubu ganbatte!"

>>152514897
>>152515533
Does anyone remember that shogun that was terrorizing Eboshi's village? And the emperor who wanted the Deer God head as well? There were like 4 different factions in the movie, and only two received any sort of development.

>>152515533
How could Ashitaka have any solution? He jumped into a conflict much greater than himself. He tried to minimize the overall damage, it was the only thing he could do.

>>152516059
the town and the forest getting decimated wasn't enough for you?

>>152518102

Well you can assume that the shogun lost his interest in the Iron Town since it got completely destroyed and its survivors will be living like hippies in the future

The emperor will probably want the monk >>152515088 dead for fucking up, but maybe he will be merciful if the other soldiers tell him how the story went. Otherwise the monk could go on the lam to escape his death sentence, without even reporting back to the emperor.

>>152518261
Neither of those mattered.

At the end of the day everyone sat together and went kumbaya. It glosses over the long term implications to give us an unearned shitty contrived happy ending.

>>152518421

iirc San says that the forest will never return to its precedent state

>>152518555
It doesn't matter what she says because it's incredibly vague and we will never see the forest again once the movie ends.

The ending of the movie was essentially that the giant alien monster united the humans and animals and everyone was no longer fighting. It has no more depth than that.

>>152518705

>It doesn't matter what she says because it's incredibly vague

Nah, I don't want to watch it again but it's pretty clear that there are lasting consequences for the forest. Also her "mom" died to save her.

>The ending of the movie was essentially that the giant alien monster united the humans and animals and everyone was no longer fighting.

At the end of the movie, the only thing that humans and animals were united by was death. Eboshi just recognized that her behaviour led to the distruction of the city.

The giant alien wants his head back, he doesn't give a fuck about anyone.

>>152518705
>nothing that actually happened in the movie matters, I just wanna keep forcing my meme

>>152515088
jew

File: Ashitaka.jpg (27KB, 640x352px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 640x352px

At least Ashitaka gets a nice end. He can go between a wild tomboy princess who wants his dick and an entire town of females who also want his dick, their leader included.

>>152519138
>it's pretty clear that there are lasting consequences for the forest.

Such as? The ending implies that Eboshi will rebuild, and San will return to the wilderness. But there was peace at last.

>At the end of the movie, the only thing that humans and animals were united by was death.

Is that why San and Eboshi and every named human character was alive and well? And the Kodama returned, which meant the forest was alive and well.

>The giant alien wants his head back, he doesn't give a fuck about anyone.

How convenient then that he's a literal plot device to unite humans and animals.

>>152519199
>I'm an idiot with no argument who has to rely now on throwing out buzzwords

You're a fucking moron.

>>152519588

>Such as?

What I've told you before. That's the only bit of actual information we have, so I stick to it.

>Is that why San and Eboshi and every named human character was alive and well?

A lot of humans died and they had a name for Eboshi. That's why she makes those ending reflections.

>unite humans and animals.

This just doesn't happen. Where would San "go back" otherwise? Both factions will mind their own business without fucking each other up.

>>152519588
>trivialize destruction of both parties
>ignore direct quotes from characters
>b-baka! bb-buzzwords!
If you think about it, you're actually the moron

It's not some lasting peace agreement, they just stopped fighting since they lost everything they were fighting for and the frenzied nature god regained his head composure

>>152519867
>That's the only bit of actual information we have, so I stick to it.

Your "information" is rooted in one line that is vague at best and has nothing to do with what actually happens at the end. If you honestly think the ending of the movie was a sad or unhopeful one you are beyond delusional and just projecting your own cynicism onto it.

>A lot of humans died and they had a name for Eboshi. That's why she makes those ending reflections.

A lot of people we never see or give a shit about die offscreen. This means nothing to the audience. You could make an argument for the village getting destroyed, but as Eboshi said, she plans to rebuild.

>This just doesn't happen.

It did at the ending. What happens in the future is just speculation. All you're doing is justifying your retarded cynical fanfiction future.

>>152519978
>>ignore direct quotes from characters

It's called "context," and yes, it does matter. The line is vague as shit, and it does not spell doom as you would like to believe.

>It's not some lasting peace agreement, they just stopped fighting since they lost everything they were fighting for and the frenzied nature god regained his head composure

It doesn't matter if it's lasting or not, the movie ends when the conflict ends. Nobody wins, but nobody loses. But they both move on. It's a pretty damn happy ending.

>>152520102

>Your "information" is rooted in one line that is vague at best and has nothing to do with what actually happens at the end. If you honestly think the ending of the movie was a sad or unhopeful one you are beyond delusional and just projecting your own cynicism onto it.

I actually think that the ending, just like the whole movie, was pretty neutral and not preachy in any way. I also think that you're a massive faggot who can't handle a constructive discussion.

Please, keep talking about things that didn't take place in the movie we are discussing but only in your retarded brain.

>>152520209
>none of these terrible things are bad, it's a happy ending cause I say so
No anon, everybody loses in the end. Even the love-bird protagonists are kept apart by duty at the end of the movie

>>152520336
>I actually think that the ending, just like the whole movie, was pretty neutral and not preachy in any way.

The ending was that the Dear God reset everything for humans and animals. Eboshi planned to rebuild. The forest was destroyed but still alive. It was a fresh start. If you know anything about Miyazaki, you would know how often he talks about "waves that purify man". This was in Ponyo as well. The Forest Spirit took and gave back in equal amounts. It's a very happy ending.

That doesn't make him any less of a plot device.

>Please, keep talking about things that didn't take place in the movie we are discussing but only in your retarded brain.

Please, keep throwing tantrums when you fail to back up your own arguments and have to resort to literal fanfiction to justify yourself. Your dementia isn't doing you any good.

>>152520477
>No anon, everybody loses in the end.

See >>152520505

As for Ashitaka, it's implied he stays with Eboshi and helps rebuild her village. Just because two lovers don't get together doesn't make it an unhappy ending.

>cute girl who was supposed to marry Ashitaka can't, because he left his village forever
>she will never see him again
>she will never know that Ashitaka got two other hot chicks, Eboshi and San, and stayed in close proximity to both of them after saving the world
Being that girl is suffering

>>152520570
why do you keep saying it's a happy ending? because all the survivors of the battle are homeless and have to rebuild their town?
because the forest got destroyed but it might regrow partially after who knows how long?
basically your only point is that it could have turned out worse than it did.
it's a neutral ending, at best

>>152520653
wait...wasn't the girl he talks to at the beginning (in the night in which he left the village) his sister?

> It's just a single village trying desperately to survive.

While I'm no fan of the film myself, this logic doesn't hold up. If every village thinks "we're doing these shitty things just to survive", then everyone ends up doing shitty things and nothing changes.

>>152520726
It's a happy ending because both sides stop fighting and finally see eye-to-eye with one another. The physical destruction is only temporary, and so is the peace between the two. But that peace that was brought at the ending of the movie was one that was pure optimism in hopes of a brighter future, and the characters all move on with this newfound optimism.

Saying that this is an unhappy or neutral ending is ignoring the obvious themes of the movie.

>>152520887
Just like real life

>>152520726
material destruction does not equal and unhappy ending

>>152521143
Finally someone who gets it.

It's like saying Ponyo is an unhappy movie because her tsunami flooded the entire city and destroyed everything off-camera.