Dragon Ball Super

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>Punches have no weight
>0 environmental damage

Great manga.

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>>152477020
>Having autism

>>152477020

>there are still retards out there who don't understand that everything is ki-based and the character control and focus in their ki to increase lethality

Bleach-tier retardation going on

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>>152476935

>>152477020
Copypasting the post because nobody gave you (You)s the first time, cute anon?

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So, is this anon >>152466640 still coloring this page?

>>152477185

Sure bro

Goku lost to a pissy teenage alien fuckboi

Good thing Goku didn't job

>>152477249
And you lost to the educational system, or that's what I take away from such a finely crafted micro-post.

>>152477121

Keep telling that to yourself.

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>>152477121
>I have autism: the post
you have to go back pedro

https://twitter.com/DragonBallRedux
Live translations for the chapter.

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>>152477467
>I'm a retard: The Post
Off yourself.

Toyotaro made SS2 Trunks equal to SS3 Goku to establish Trunks' base is superior so his future "demigod" form being stronger than SSB Goku actually makes sense

Prove me wrong

>>152477472
Thanks. Based mangabros helping each other yet again

>TheDevilsCorpse ‏@DragonBallRedux 21m21 minutes ago
>Zamasu wasn't around to observe Black because he was investigating the other Parallel Worlds for their eventual invasion & Zero Humans Plan.

This explains why Trunks never saw him. Does Toyo answer everything?

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>>152477758

>>152477831
It's annoying, the anime could have had this if they didn't waste their time focusing on useless resistance flashbacks or recapping History of Trunks.

Black admitting he was powerless and weak in Goku's body at first is why he jumped timelines makes sense. Also Beerus finding out he stole Goku's body would piss him off.

when people say 'canon' they mean written or approved by toriyama, right?

>"rushed" monthly manga explains more and better than weekly anime

It's funny because isn't only about toei being bad and Toyo good, but both things at same time

>Disrupted the foundation Goku had built and reset everything fans assumed were purely physical, like transformations & near death boosts.

So a reset. Does this explain why Black was so damn skinny?

>>152478130
when people say 'canon' here they mean things they like

>>152477074
Having little eye for detail, now get back to your studies! No cake for you!!!!
>Having Son I am Disappoint

>>152478254
>Black
>skinnier than Goku

You also believe Black's skin is darker than Goku's..?

>>152478254
>Black was so damn skinny
Because Black was a zombie, or Goten

>>152477629

Piccolo in base form is actually stronger than Goku if Goku isn't using Kaio-Ken or God Ki.

>>152478339
Black's skin tone is supposed to be how Goku's looks like. Toriyama gave Black the same skin tone as Goku in the draft, and Toei took it as is.

>>152478254
zamasu was using a goku suit

>>152478254
>Does this explain why Black was so damn skinny?

Black was skinny in the anime because they used Toriyama's design (Everyone looks skinny with his current artstyle)

>>152478379
Why does Goku even bother with normal SSJ? Just use God Ki.

>>152478381
Thanks to say something I already know. Why do you think I asked about Black's skin being darker? Is the same with his musculature, I just asked it to make anon realize Black isn't skinnier than Goku, Vegeta or any character

>>152478379
Yes, and?

>>152478493

That anon literally explained it to you as plainly as possible.

Toriyama's design for Goku has Goku with a fairly dark farmer's tan.

You know.

Because he's a fucking farmer.

>>152478479
to 'warm up' before the real fight begins

>>152478540
But I already know it, you retard

>>152478731

>I already know the answer to the question I'm asking
>I only asked it cause I wanted anon to see something that is literally demonstrably false

Are all DB fans this retarded?

>Black says every time Zamasu heals him from near death, the damaged cells become "mine", allowing "god's" mind & body to connect better.

So Goku's cells dies and becomes Zamasu's, making Zamasu having complete control of the body.

>Goku's soul has already run out zenkais
>Black-Zamasu soul not

So, if Black-Zamasu gets all his possible zenkais, and he and future Zamasu exchange bodies, the new Black can have even more zenkais? Fuck

>>152478479
Goku fights at the level of his opponents if they are weaker than him. Jesus do mangafags know nothing?

>>152478778
Holy shit dude, you are retarded? I mean, ACTUALLY retarded? Some anon said Black is skinnier than Goku, but as I know, those details (darker skin, musculature, etc) are just toei fault addapting Black to the anime, so I asked him if he also thinks Black's skin is darker than Goku's to make him realize why Black's differences with Goku aren't "canon", just a mistake from Toei
I'm genuinly surprised that you can't get something so simple like this

>>152479111
Remember when he could have killed Fat Buu in SS3 but he didn't cause Buu was weaker than him at the time.

Having casual conversations during the fight and shit.

The only time Goku came in hot as fuck and straight decommissioned a nigga was Nappa.

>Goku, unaware of Zamasu's immortality, bluntly tells Zamasu that he's nothing compared to Black and that it's time for his butt kicking.

None of that Blue clashing with Future Zamasu outta nowhere.

So there's none of that shit about Zamasu killing Chichi and Goten in the manga?

Why is Trunks such a punk ass bitch that he gave Black so many zenkais. If he was any kind of unretarded he'd have killed Black the first time he came around.

>>152479212
You are actually fucking stupid. Don't breed.

>>152479022
>>Goku's soul has already run out zenkais
that doesn't work that way
you can't just run out of a ability
goku doesn't use it because of his pride as a martial artist

>>152479022
>Soul's can run out of Zenkai's

THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT

>>152479691
Sounds like some Toyo canon

>>152479691
>>152479758
I mean if there were no limits he would be invincible, so there had to be a limit to the hax... I guess?

>>152479691

They aren't named Broly

>>152479653
OK, I understand that you can't deal with your problem.

>>152480010
there's no limit
they could abuse it like black
however they don't have a unlimited healing item called zamasu
they could use dende but i don't think their pride allows it

>>152479758
You're retarded. It's the same thing as the anime, except Toyo is explaining it. Goku and Vegeta don't get zenkais anymore, Black gets plenty. This is the reason why.

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>>152479492
Smugku is back

>>152480251
Or senzu beans, but they are quite limited because plot, there is not a lot of it to plant them.

Also if it's true that it's been retconned that there is a limit to zenkais it was only so Black wasn't invincible, why would Zamasu stop thrusting Black with his sword if he kept getting stronger everytime?

>hur hur why Goku back to regular SS

>https://twitter.com/DragonBallRedux/status/822584029379698690
>"Vegeta said he didn't want to team up, so Goku probably dropped out of SSGSS when he thought Zamasu was defeated."

>>152480630
Black wants Saiyans. He doesn't want greens. He doesn't want his daily dose.

So basically

>Zamasu steals Goku's body
>Oh shit it backfired, why can't I use his abilities? I can't even go SSJ!
>oh shit shit shit Beerus likes Goku and he'll kill me for this, better switch timelines
>I powerup through pain...my alternate self can help me
>sup bro lets go on a murder road trip throughout the universes while you keep healing me

>>152480630
because there was no reason
he was already the strongest in that timeline

>>152480251
>Universe is at stake
>MUH PRIDE

FUCKING GOHAN YOU KEK
YOU COULD LITERALLY ABUSE ZENKAI'S TO SAVE THE UNIVERSE AND YOU AREN'T A PRIDE FAG LIKE THE FULL BLOODS BUT YOU WON'T

>>152478859

So he'd eventually stop getting the Z-boost, since his cells wouldn't be Saiyan right?

>>152480966
goku didn't wanted ssj god because of muh pride

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>>152481013
Oh, I guess that explains it, why adding the soul thing then?

Wait did Zamasu actually do the training of abusing Z-Boosts that everyone always says would be perfect Saiyan training but they never do it?

>>152480640
the important thing here is that if goku went SSB again he would be weaker, since you can't keep transforming into it

>>152481089
remember when goku kept firing his kamehameha to himself during the space trip to namek

>>152481152

actually no, that happened? Damn I need to rewatch old DBZ before I go shootin off at the mouth

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>Manga thread so dead you had to take it out of the OP name

kek

>>152481099
Yeah, anon, that's why the important thing is point there's a reason for power down to SS. Also we don't how much Goku and Vegeta should wait to properly use SSB again, maybe Goku just need five minutes to go Blue again (also he even have senzus).

>>152481327
except Zamasu destroyed his senzus...

>>152481089
Because eventually it becomes too hard to get anything decent out of weak opponents.

The further you're pushed, the stronger you get.

If you have to guys of equal power levels beating each other to an inch of life, then you get a lot more than just getting stabbed in a cut because your entire body has been brought down to the brink rather than just suffering a fatal wound.

The ideal scenario is two saiyans with a healer. The Saiyans fight each other until they're nearly dead and then get healed.

It's why Zamasu would have honestly done better to get a THIRD of him in a Goku body because then the two Goku Blacks could train each other to maximum

>>152481372
When Goku is already back to regular SS

>Zamasu dodges SSB attack in the anime, all this outrage about Toei being shit
>Zamasu dodges SSB attack in manga, you suck Toyo's cock

I fucking hate you mangafag hypocrites. This is just as badly written you fucks, nothing here is better.

>>152481152
Goku knows about z boosts. The point is everyone kinda of assumed it became useless after achieving SSJ since it's never brought up again after the Frieza Saga.

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back when they showed you taking weeks to level up in strength, still wasn't enough so he needed another zenkai to reach ssj ceiling

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Everyone in Geekdom's review saying the manga is superior.

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just me abusing zenkai, don't tell toriyama!

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>>152481770
looks mighty similar to something

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>>152477201
im still trying to repent for giving him one of those (you)s this morning
NINGEN SCUM

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>>152481592
Zamasu power isn't established as SS2 tier in the manga as was in the anime, you retard. Also manga-Zamasu only dodge one single punch from a Goku not taking him seriously, while anime-Zamasu did pic related

>>152481394
Did someone just post The Number THREE!?
>arrives from dungeons and dragons thread
>hi guys
> Yout all doing alright today?
>is what I'd like to say

>>152481740
>Youtube comments
>being relevant.
kek

>>152480867
Best written story all stories all of history
and taken from us too soon.

>>152481740
>Actually putting stock into what comes off of Youtube
>Listening to literal autists for varying levels of autism

This is what's going to end the human race: Not weapons, not disease, but infinite stupidity like (You) possess.

Has Black used his sword/scythe tech yet?

>>152479691
Certainly is Namco-Studio Shaft all of a sudden
>if only I had a reaction folder full of hive insects famous for plant pollination or hypothetical crossbreeds with other insects so to prevent mass starvation, that'd put a stop to this quasi-butthurt
Sigh, a man can dream. Mayweather! Bring in the forms for the Johnson lawsuit! I like the cut of his jib.
>implying implicitly
*a plaintive melancholic tune plays*

>>152479325
even then he started out in base, rather than using Kaioken

>>152482282
He'll use something better. And that mmmmaybe

>>152481883
We already saw him sparring with Kibito, which is a ssj1 tier and struggling a bit, he's not that far from that

>>152481883
>Zamasu power isn't established as SS2 tier in the manga

unless Zamasu is a retard, Goku's body has to be much stronger than his own, for the bodyswitch to be worth anything

>>152482725
>we already saw him sparring with Kibito
Not in a serious fight, also Kibito literally didn't anything against Zamasu except push him with psychic powers, there's no hint of Kibito's power being nearly to Zamasu's

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B-BUT I THOUGHT THE MANGA WAS FLAWLESS!

>>152481740
>Watching a clickbait garbage youtuber like geekdom
>Giving it value to the comments
anon..

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>>152483057
>manga
>flawless
Literally anybody ever said that, pathetic toeishill

>>152483203
Considering whenever you point out a flaw in a thread, everyone comes to damage control and act like it's not a flaw at all.

Point in case:
>Vegeta being stronger than Black in SS2 when base Black beat Trunks
>V-V-VEGETA WAS IN HIS ENRAGED SS2 FORM, HE'S STRONGER THAN GOKU
>It's revealed the next chapter that Black was jobbing on purpose
>Heh, n-never doubted /OURGUY/

Or,
>Black goes Super Saiyan instead of going Rose
>R-R-ROSE IS NON CANON, IS BROLY CANON? TOEI OBVIOUSLY PRESSURED TORIYAMA INTO A DESIGN TO SELL MERCH FUCKING TOEISHILL

Yeah, but toyopedros don't think the manga is perfect, for sure.

>>152483057
So what? Dragonball timelines seem to branch off of events, if Zamasu was killed by Beerus there will exist a timeline where he wasn't, whats wrong with that?

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>>152481856
Yeah now I regret giving that faggot anon a (You) too.

>>152483339
How is the act of DESTRUCTION the act that splits the timeline?

That makes no sense.

Beerus kills Zamasu in the timeline... this somehow creates a timeline where Zamasu is still alive... how? How would Zamasu escape? The timeline would obviously split the moment right before Zamasu is erased, which means Zamasu was still in-front of Beerus ready to face him in battle.

It makes no sense. Toriyama obviously didn't think this through.

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If manga Zamasu can heal,

And manga Black knows about zenkai,

And Black also knows he can go SSB with enough zenkais.

Then why didn't both of them just isolated themselves in a random planet and abuse the fuck out of the zenkai? Have Black lower his power, have Zamasu blast a hole through him, then heal him and profit.

>>152483309
At least we can do damage control. All toeifags can do is watch the shitstorm that unfolds.
Mangafags existed, but they were never this numerous before. Why is that? It's because Toei let us down, and the manga is doing gods work. We want this to be the standard, compared to what I saw in the anime this writing seems far more professional.
>>152483409
Have you heard of what comics do with this shit? It's like a universe is created for every single possible scenario, this is mild compared to that.

We all know this manga is not-canon,but that doesn't make it bad at all, but it's still a very enjoyable story.im waiting for the translations right now

>>152483563
>Have you heard of what comics do with this shit? It's like a universe is created for every single possible scenario, this is mild compared to that.
>bringing up points just to defend your point

I don't care about comics, this contradicts Dragon Ball's established rules of time travel and doesn't even make any sense on its own.

>>152483409
Damask having become fourth dimensional, seeped through all possible cracks in "time", allowing his ascendancy to become ingrained in the multiverse or the ascendancy of those like him. Watch all his lines in the Trunks battle. How many Zamasu or whoever have tried this before?
Zeno a crazy by now.

>>152483485
Then they wouldn't learn transformations like SSJ and SSB. Battle experience is important too

>>152483485
They kinda tried that. Wait for Xenoverse 3 is my advice.

>>152483563
>Mangafags existed, but they were never this numerous before.
Blatant lie.

Mangafags were at their peak when the manga was ahead of the anime and doing the U6 arc and Toei was stuck in the retellings. There were far more mangafags back then because EVERYONE loved the manga and everyone hated the anime.

If anything, the Goku Black arc being semi-decent in the anime brought some fans back to it and reduced the number of mangafags. Most of the things in the arc that people complain also happen in the manga, so manga fans are becoming less and less. Before chapter 13, I think, it was unanimous that the manga was better, ever since then there has been more and more anime vs manga shitstorms.

>>152483624
When Trunks went back in time he created a splinter timeline where Goku doesn't die of heart disease.

>>152483647
Black literally becomes SSR because he got a zenkai strong enough that made him able to.

Black already knew about SS and SSR considering he watched Goku on Godtube beforehand, so he could have easily abused the zenkais and managed to.

>>152483485
Why goku and the others didn't killed dr gero when they could?? CAUSE PLOT why they dont ask shenlong for infinite senzubeans?? CAUSE PLOT Why dr gero didnt made a17 and 18 robots like 16 Cauce plot
Plot is always the awnser

>>152483702
I didn't hang around these threads back then.so thanks for the info.
Still though there has been a surge of mangafags

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>>152483776
That's because it's quality not QUALITY.

>>152483738
True...I think it's just their ego. Goku Black could have also gotten immortality yet he didn't, so it could be that their desire to destroy filthy ningen is so strong they would like to exterminate them.

>>152481883

Present Zamasu was established as SSJ2-tier.

Future Zamasu had Goku explicitly pointing out something was different so it could be inferred that he got stronger at some point between the 20+ years gap in timelines.

>>152483770
>Why goku and the others didn't killed dr gero when they could?? CAUSE PLOT
No, because they didn't want to, Goku and Vegeta wanted to fight the androids. They said this.

>why they dont ask shenlong for infinite senzubeans?? CAUSE PLOT
Probably wouldn't be able to, but a plot hole that they've never tried.

>Why dr gero didnt made a17 and 18 robots like 16 Cauce plot
Because Gero was experimenting with different models. 16, 17 and 18 were all failures as he stated, only 19 and him were a success.

Plot isn't the answer to plot holes.

Damask was a North Kai. What techniques did he create?

>>152476935
Has any actually counted how many times the "punch the opponent in the gut so hard you lift him up" thing happens in DB?

>>152483844
It's spelled Z a m a s u

>>152483702
yeah and we gonna see even less now with the manga even more behind and the upcoming tournament when the Anime episodes will be based off on Toyo storyboards

>>152483838
Also they needed Gero to lead them to the base to destroy it.

Also if they amassed the balls there was usually a more pressing wish at hand

Also 16 was a suicide bot designed to grab Goku and blow himself up

Seriously what race was Recoome?

>>152483988
>Also 16 was a suicide bot designed to grab Goku and blow himself up
We all know that 16 could have killed Goku with one finger at the time ,why blow himself up?

>>152483309
>whenever you point out a flaw in a thread, everyone comes to damage control
Since a lot of people (and I'm including myself) already accept Toyotaro fucked up with the power scale saying Trunks SS2 is SS3 tier (so Black's above) I can say that's pure bullshit

>inb4 b-but some people refused to accept power scale made no sense before this last chapter!
I know, so? There's people in permanent denial in both groups you idiot, there's even people who pretend SS3 Goku fighting Buu-Gotenks in DBZ filler makes sense god dammit

>"n-never doubted"
Nobody ever said this either

>R-R-ROSE IS NON CANON, IS BROLY CANON? TOEI OBVIOUSLY PRESSURED TORIYAMA INTO A DESIGN TO SELL MERCH FUCKING TOEISHILL
Too bad there's nothing wrong with that, huh? Being designed by Toriyama doesn't make something canon, so... If SSR doesn't happen in the manga, why believe was created by Toriyama and part of the script? Why? Was legit theorize about SSR being canon or not.

>Yeah, but toyopedros don't think the manga is perfect, for sure.
Whatever you say, anon. Also I'm sure make your racism noticeable make your argument even better

>>152483702
Because despite all its flaws the anime was far more enjoyable because of how much exposition Zamasu and Black got.

Anyone can agree they were the main, if not the only reason the arc is worth watching.

Manga misses the point and focuses on rushing the plot to its end whereas the anime spends more time focusing on Black and Zamasu themselves.

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Anybody else think Black's character would be way better if he was abit more deranged? I'm not talking about edgelord shit, but something like what Zamasu was doing in the anime ex: jumping infront of ki blasts because he can. That over the line thing would work great with Black.

>>152478479
Because he's an idiot fight addict who wants to have fun even in near death situations

>>152483485
Because they don't need? Black can get zenkais by Zamasu while ningens still alive... or kill ningens, which make Trunks appear and let Black get zenkais too. One scenario makes Black stronger, another makes Black stronger AND includes kill ningens (also is funny to Black play with Trunks)

BLACKED

>>152484071
>Too bad there's nothing wrong with that, huh? Being designed by Toriyama doesn't make something canon, so... If SSR doesn't happen in the manga, why believe was created by Toriyama and part of the script? Why? Was legit theorize about SSR being canon or not.
Are you retarded?

It was coupled with Toriyama's ONLY design of Goku Black, which means it was 100% canon. You don't see Toriyama's design of SS Anger Trunks, right? Because it doesn't exist, since it's not canon.

Yeah, sure, Toriyama wouldn't design Rose if it wasn't canon. Name me one design Toriyama did for Super that isn't in both the anime and manga.

>>152483831
>Zamasu, a kai who will live for millions of years, can went from being SS2 tier to SSB tier by training for 20 years

So Zamasu doesn't need Black? He can easly train 50 years and be stronger than Beerus, then

>>152484070
Cause his bomb was capable of eradicating cell which means its like a maximum power SSJ2 Kamehameha. Gero wasn't fuckin around when he made the Allah Hu Akbot

>>152483339

Because so far, we've only been shown timelines splitting when timetravel occurs. And it's impossible to make sense of the Black arc because of it.

>>152484364
He was established as SSJ2 tier in the anime dude. We cannot use the anime to judge the characters

>>152484414
Wasn't*

>>152484414
So why would Zamasu need Black if he was already SSB level from the start?

And if he wasn't SSB level from the start, then it's at least confirmed that he can get to SSB level in the 17-year time gap between the two timelines.

No matter which way you look at it, future Zamasu being so strong is dumb in both mediums.

>>152484483
>So why would Zamasu need Black if he was already SSB level from the start?
He's not SSB tier, he just uses heart paralysis technique like Shin and Chaotsu.

>>152484386
Were digging deeper into the timeline mechanics then. Also, simply going into the past wouldn't change the timeline, he'd have to do something to change it and that he did.

>>152484546
He dodged SSB Goku's hits and was tanking some of them. He's at least close to SSB Goku, even if he's weaker.

>>152484120
At the end, Dragon Ball has always been silly and only hardcore spergs care about the plot. The audience care about the sense of wonder and the Future Trunks arc deliver in that area. The vocal minority of aspergers rage every week for the plotholes but the fans were jerking off for Black's scythe and Zamasu's stand

>>152484483
Just one single dodge doesn't make him SSB level anon.

>>152478130
Bretty much dis >>152478258 , my possible DBO poster.
Im fine with both, even with the fact they "contradict" with eachoter, but people here tends to forget Tori-sensei didn't wanted to continue with DB until BoG happened.

>>152484591
Hit* non plural, he dodged one punch.

Remember when people said SSJ2 Trunks was Blue tier after he got one kick on Rose.

>>152484569
Explain to me how it makes any sense

>Beerus goes to Zamasu
>Zamasu attacks Beerus
>Beerus destroys Zamasu
>*SPLIT*
>Our timeline

Sure, everything working so far. Now, the other timeline that was created where Zamasu is still alive:
>Beerus goes to Zamasu
>Zamasu attacks Beerus
>?????

What the fuck happens? It literally does not function because Beerus KILLING Zamasu CANNOT be the act that splits it.

And it's not Trunks going back into the past either because we saw there were only 5 time rings when Trunks came back and then when Zamasu checks this chapter there are 6. So it's Beerus killing Zamasu.

It makes no sense. It's a plot hole.

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Can someone explain to me how Goku jobbing against Zamasu makes any sense?

>Goku reverts back to Super Saiyan 1 for some reason even though he still has to deal with Black and powering up back to SSB will make him 90% weaker
>Goku gets caught in Kaioshin's technique and somehow doesn't think about going SS2, SS3, SSG or SSB to break the technique
>Goku reverts back to base form and loses after only one kick from Zamasu

>>152483770
This anon get it.
Anons with "plotholes" logic please dont apply.

>>152484364
The anime did its job establishing that he stole Goku's body out of spite rather than logic.

And what's with tha bullshit comment of yours?
Training in DB has never been consistent in the level of power it gives you, it only serves as a plot device to make you strong enough to face your enemies.

Even if what you claimed were possible in the first place it is not the first time a villian has stopped training for plot convenience (see Gold Frieza).

>>152484805
>Goku reverts back to Super Saiyan 1 for some reason
His main character flaw is letting his guard down when he thinks he's won

>>152484711
How hard is it to understand that:
Timeline 1: Zamasu is Destroyed
Creates another timeline where he isn't destroyed
How hard is it to understand? Time is a fickle thing

How were 17 and 18 stronger than Frieza again?

>>152484882
So you're saying Goku never develops even though RoF made it a big point of having him lose that trait of his?

I thought manga Goku was in-character.

>>152484805
>goku
>jobbing
he was caught off guard with the kai magic
also you don't know what the term jobbing means

>>152484893
It doesn't make sense, moron.

The act of killing Zamasu can't create another timeline where he's alive because in THAT timeline Zamasu would still have to deal with Beerus somehow. And he CAN'T deal with Beerus.

It's literally that easy to understand, are you retarded?

>>152484913
>>So you're saying Goku never develops even though RoF made it a big point of having him lose that trait of his?
Not one bit

>>152484805
Why don't we better wait for a proper translation before we go any further??

>>152484805
He compared him to Black, not even considering Zamasu a threat in comparison to him. Tell me, if you lifted a weight at your maximum strength and you pulled it up too easy, you would ease your strength a bit because it's too unnecessary

>>152484930
>he was caught off guard with the kai magic
And didn't think of going any of the other 4 transformations he has at his disposal to break the magic.

Thus, he jobbed. He lost to someone massively weaker than him because he was an idiot just to show off how threatening the villains are.

>>152478130

They should mean "written", but shitposters use "approved" or things that they just like.

>>152485006
goku is a retard even in the manga

>>152484271
>Are you retarded?
I'm wasting my time with you, so maybe

>It was coupled with Toriyama's ONLY design of Goku Black
Wasn't. First they showed us a draw of base Black and later they showed another with his Rose form added to the original. Both drawings being originally coupled by Toriyama itself is just assumption.
Also even if actually was as you said, what a kind of logic are you using? Toriyama draws regular Black, his invention, and then he draws the transformation Toei want next to the original, how that makes canon the form not created by Toriyama?

>You don't see Toriyama's design of SS Anger Trunks, right?
I don't see Toriyama's design of SS or SS2 Trunks either.

>We don't Because it doesn't exist, since it's not canon.
You know that's another assumption so not an argument either, right?

>Name me one design Toriyama did for Super that isn't in both the anime and manga.
Why? You just say DBS because he never did it so far, but he did with DBZ. Some day Toriyama could design something not canon for DBS as he did with DBZ, and that day could have been when he drew Rose.
You are acting like everything Toriyama will ever draw for the name "DBS" will be canon and again is just your assumption.

Should one read the manga or watch the anime?

>>152485160
both

>>152485160
Read the manga for the movie recaps and U6 arc.
Watch the anime for the Black arc.

>>152481856
>This arc is still giving us memes

I love Black and Zamasu so much

>>152485160
The Manga that ended in the 1990s.

>>152484639
Would be an argument if Toriyama hadn't gone out of his way to establish powerlevels need to be close for a fight to not be over in one punch.

Dodging a single attack is a feat because we know a difference of 1.1x in power is enough to blitz and vaporize your opponent.

>>152485006
Have you considered the fact that Goku would be unable to transform in those circumstances?

>>152484483
He can dodge ONE punch from a SSB Goku who's not taking him seriously, that doesn't mean SSB Goku isn't far away him

>>152485259
Have you considered the fact that they've never stated this to be the case and it's your mere assumption to try to cover up Toyotaro's holes?

>>152485230
TA barely cares about power levels anymore, especially since his manga is over and Super is all about fan service.
It's way more fucked up in the anime so just give it a rest.

>>152484805
See >>152480640

>>152485230
> "we know a difference of 1.1x in power is enough to blitz and vaporize your opponent."


> treating powerlevels as multipliers

>>152485006
We don't know if Goku can transform itself when is affected by paralyzing magic powers from a god, though

>>152485160
Manga is indispensable. Anime is fun because some fillers and good voice acting and music, you just should ignore the usual inconsistent bullshit.
If I can say only one, I say manga, but I suggest you read the manga and watch the anime

>>152485160
BoG and RoF Movies
U6 arc is skippable
Black arc anime first and manga later.

manga fills some holes but the anime is far more compelling because the main source of quality are black and Zamasu that have comparatively more screentime dedicated to them.

>>152485295
>mere assumption

Just like you thinking that Goku transforming could break a Kai's magic?

>>152485295
The irony is that you assume transforming would break free.

>>152485790
he did break out of tokitobashi by transforming in the manga which is undoubtedly a more broken technique.

>>152485790
>>152485827
If he couldn't, then why didn't Zamasu use it when Goku was SSB?

Shut the fuck up.

>>152485870
Opportunity. It's like asking why didn't Buutenks use Super Ghost Kamikaze.

>>152485751
>U6 arc is skippable

It is the best Super arc as of yet.
It is only bad in the manga because Toyotaro nerfed the fights.

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>>152485921
>It is only bad in the manga because Toyotaro nerfed the fights.
Did you cry when they nerfed it in the rematch so it stays true to the plot outlines?

>>152485905
That needs preparation time as Buu needs to spit out all of the ghosts.

All Zamasu needs to do is literally point his hands and done.

The technique isn't that broken. He didn't use it on SSB because it doesn't work on SSB.

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>>152485921
that's not black arc anon

>>152485858
>assuming that an alien technique to freeze time and a god technique to paralyze a body works exactly the same way about flaws and limits

>>152485858
That's because Hit's timeskip doesn't work on stronger people

>>152485870
Zamasu is a retard? I don't know. Attacking Beerus directly with just a fucking ki sword wasn't smart either.

>>152479579
That was gokus best bit in the anime Black arc

>>152483057
How does that mess up anything you moron? The anime made it a problem because he only found out about Goku because he met Goku as Black.

The manga erases this by having him find out about Goku from others without the intervention of Trunks and Black.

>>152486081
Doesn't that speech happen next trip in the anime?

>>152485870
They fight for 20 seconds, you moron

>Zamasu and Goku clash
>Zamasu eats the floor in two seconds
>Zamasu try to distract Goku throwing him shit
>Zamasu paralyze Goku

>>152485980
>spit out
Easily done as Gohan is down & bleeding. It's just like why Vegeta & Piccolo doesn't use most of their techniques more than once or why Black doesn't use many kai techniques.

>>152486030
TK didn't work on nappa when chiatzu used it because he was too strong

Super Buus candy beam didn't defeat Vegito because he was too strong

Tokitobashi didn't stop Goku because he was too strong.

Special abilities( including Telekinesis)

have always failed against stronger opponents, so Goku not being able to resist telekinesis by powering up would be an inconsistency.

>>152486292
>Solar Flare
>Destructo Disk
>Mafuba

>>152486224
>Gohan
Anon, Buu was already winning against Gohan. Like, Gohan didn't even stand a chance. Why would he use the ghosts?

>>152486084
Beerus destroying Zamasu creating another timeline makes no sense, retard.

>Toyotaro nerf
I'm sick of this meme. Toyotaro and Toei works with Toriyama outline, Toyo can't "nerf" anything Toei does and vice versa.
Hit never was a power house in the outline just like base Black was never capable to survive SSB's Vegeta punches, so Toyotaro never nerf them.

>>152486372
He used donuts. He used other techniques. Super Buu was willing to use it on Vegito.

>>152486408
Toriyama's outline is vague as fuck.

Considering Goku went Kaioken x10 in the anime and Toyotaro made Vegeta 10x weaker to fit Toriyama's outline, it's obvious that Toriyama's outline was just something like "Goku wins because he's 10x stronger than Vegeta". If Toriyama had written "Vegeta gets 10x weaker due to SSB strain" then Toei would have written it like that too.

So, yes, in that sense, Toyotaro does indeed nerf characters.

Is the translation out yet?

>>152486445
Yes, and he didn't use all of his trump cards on Gohan because he was wiping the floor with Gohan.

He was losing against Vegetto so he used all of his techniques.

I don't see what's your point.

>>152486292
It's funny because you are literally supporting why Zamasu would not use the technique. If Zamasu can't paralyze SSB Goku, makes sense Zamasu only did with SS Goku. But, even if Goku can broke Zamasu's technique by powering up, we don't know if he can simply transform itself while is affected

>>152486402
Zamasu wasn't supposed to die, he only died because Trunks went back and interfered. Beerus killing him changed history retard, hence the split

The original history was supposed to be Zamasu living and stealing Goku's body.

>>152486605
I think he means the timeline splitting at that point makes no sense, It needs to have happened from the instant Trunks traveled back in time otherwise you end up with an scenario where the timeline splits at the very instant Beerus is about to kill Zamasu and there is no possible way the timeline could further split from that as it would require the former to not kill the latter

>>152486489
>Toriyama's outline is vague as fuck.
That's the point. If Toriyama say "Jaco can beat base Goten now" and Toyotaro make him base Trunks tier, but Toei make him base Vegeta tier, is Jaco nerfed by Toyotaro? Of course not

>in that sense
Is the only sense. If Toriyama doesn't say him some shit, he have no reason to make it, even if Toei does. All those "nerf" complains are literally "Toyotaro doesn't make something I like so he did something bad"

>>152486690
This is it. There's no way it split from Trunks travelling back because we saw there were only 5 rings, so it leaves Beerus destroying Zamasu as the only possible point of splitting the timeline.

>>152486690
>It needs to have happened from the instant Trunks traveled back in time
It doesn't. Trunks doesn't actively change anything until Beerus makes his move and changes history. It's like Back to the Future. Marty being in the past and interacting with people doesn't change anything until he triggers something major. Beerus does that by actively changing history when he kills Zamasu

>>152486769
But that doesn't make any sense, how can you not understand that?

If you split the timeline at that point, then the alternate timeline Zamasu who lived STILL has to face Beerus. He has to either survive the attack or dodge it and then has to escape.

It doesn't fucking function.

>>152486532
He used techniques of Gohan's allies to mess with him. The ghosts would have been useful. He didn't even attempt the Donut nor many other techniques on Vegito even if he would have gotten a slight advantage.

>>152481770
yeah but zenkai boosts stopped doing shit for everyone as soon as super saiyan happened. after that, cell got it but only cell. goku nearly died and vegeta gotten beat multiple times from start of androids to end of Z and they never seemed to be noticeably stronger because of it.

hell, if zenkais were still a thing then, you'd think gohan could've kicked buu's ass after dende healed him, but it didnt help him at all.

>>152486852
You're the one who doesn't understand.
Beerus himself split the timeline by changing history. Zamasu was never meant to die, Black is proof of that. He's supposed to steal Goku's body and kill him. Beerus changed history by killing Zamasu, thus making Black's existence a paradox, which results in a new paralell world

You dumb fucks don't understand, it split when Zamasu died. It doesn't fucking mean that Zamasu's timeline has him confronting Beerus. In Zamasu's timeline, he never meets Beerus, the confrontation never happens, they stay blissfully unaware of Zamasu's plans

Dragon Ball fans are either idiots or people who think way too hard that it makes them go to the dumbest conclusion

>>152486932
Buutenks was too strong. Zenkais don't magically make you strong as whoever you're fighting. Vegeta took many zenkais on Namek & was still below Frieza.

>>152486944
Let me explain this more. When Trunks goes back and gives Goku heart medicine, the timeline splits because Goku died. In Trunks original world, that doesn't mean Goku met Future Trunks and said "nah I'm good", the meeting just didn't happen and Goku died as originally planned

Since Zamasu's timeline was technically first, his timeline continues uninterrupted with no Beerus finding out about anything.

>>152484805
because

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>>152486944
>Beerus himself split the timeline by changing history. Zamasu was never meant to die, Black is proof of that. He's supposed to steal Goku's body and kill him. Beerus changed history by killing Zamasu, thus making Black's existence a paradox, which results in a new paralell world
Yes, I understand.

> it split when Zamasu died.
How can you not understand this doesn't make sense?

>It doesn't fucking mean that Zamasu's timeline has him confronting Beerus.
Yes it does, because Black knows who Beerus is whilst Zamasu never did prior to meeting him.

>In Zamasu's timeline, he never meets Beerus, the confrontation never happens, they stay blissfully unaware of Zamasu's plans
This is what should have happened if it was TRUNKS who split the timeline. But it's not. It's Beerus. Which means the timeline split with Zamasu's death. Which makes no sense.

>>152487000
>When Trunks goes back and gives Goku heart medicine, the timeline splits because Goku died. In Trunks original world, that doesn't mean Goku met Future Trunks and said "nah I'm good", the meeting just didn't happen and Goku died as originally planned
You're the one who doesn't understand. In Trunks' original world Trunks never came to the past. The timelines split the moment that Trunks came back. They didn't split because Trunks decided to interfere and kill Freeza. They split because Trunks travelled back to the past, that's it.

Beerus being the action that splits makes NO fucking sense at all because he's not messing with time. The one who was messing with time was Trunks. And we know for a fact it wasn't Trunks that split the timeline.

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Why does this theme go so well with Black?

inb4 weebs hating it on because it isn't generic Japanese orchestra

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYWQcv-MpY4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yyi2IaxO00I

Are YYHfags BTFO'd forever now?

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>>152488275
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFXLzL3mVJY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjQFqpLM-YE

>>152488275
That actually does fit surprisingly well up until 2:18. The guitars after that just ruin it for me though for some reason.

I miss Bruce Faulconer's music

>>152488600
not very funny

>>152487197
The Trunks that gave Goku the heart medicine was killed by Cell baka. The Trunks that came the 2nd time, the one from the Black arc is the one that was there at the Cell games, and well got killed by Cell, but this one not permanently.

>>152488623
t. Whis

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>>152477121
For all of Bleach's faults it still had better fights than this fucking shit

>>152488646
You don't understand how the timelines work. The Trunks we see from the start is the same one. The Trunks that got killed by Cell is another one that went to another timeline identical to ours, but where the androids where deactivated with the remote.

>>152488735
it had a select few good fights inbetween a million filler arcs.

>>152488735
bleach turned into Asspulls: the filler arc

>>152488735

Bleach was pure garbage past the Soul Society arc many years ago

don't kid yourself, nigger

>>152488275
I don't think it is better than Black's official theme, but it is pretty good too.
Also, it has a different feeling to it. I don't think it fits the villain Black is supposed to be, I visualized a villain like Cell instead of Black.

>>152488765
No the Trunks that went back was different and died. He found a way to kill the androids in his own time. But when our Trunks goes back Cell is there and the androids are alive. And he can kill Cell cause training with Vegeta. That 1st Trunks got killed as fuck yo.

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>>152489190
No, there was no "first" Trunks. The Trunks that Cell killed never came to our timeline, he went to one that is exactly like ours.

>>152489248
That makes no niggering sense nigger. It clearly said Trunks was going to return to the past, return being the keyword, to show them a way to beat the androids. If that Trunks never went to the timeline why was that timeline already programmed in? If it was a different Trunks it would have been programed to go back to the moment Frieza came back and Trunks wouldn't have been able to take the androids out.

>>152489248
And another reason that makes no sense is the second time Trunks went back He'd trained with Vegeta and could easily wreck imperfect cell and the androids. He wouldn't have needed the controller at all and Cell would never have gotten the drop on him at that point.

Have you filthy niggers forgotten that the first time traveller in the manga is a guy from universe 12? Thats yhe fucking reason their are 6 rings oppose to 5 like in the anime.

>>152489400
Why are you arguing against the official material?

Jesus, the timelines aren't hard to get.

Timeline #1, Cell's timeline: Trunks travels back in time and kills Freeza. Comes back, goes back, gets the blueprints of the androids, comes back, shuts them down, gets killed by Cell and his time machine stolen.

Timeline #2: Timeline that the Trunks from #1 went to.

Timeline #3: Timeline created by Trunks and Cell's time travel. Our timeline.

Timeline #4: Our future Trunks' timeline, it split when Trunks travelled back in time for the first place because he arrived in a timeline where Cell was already there.

There are some plot holes regarding the time travel in the manga, but this is generally what the fanbase agrees on. You're arguing against official material >>152489248 that clearly states that the Trunks that got killed by Cell and the Trunks we saw killing Mecha Freeza are two different ones.

>>152489528
So for shorts its

1.timeline - trunks
2.timeline -cell
3.timeline - trunks doesnt come back but saves goku
4.timeline- zamasu swaps with goku and becomes black
5.timeline-where we are now
6.timeline - u12 guy
Did I left anything out?

>>152489681
No.

Timeline 1 - Cell
Timeline 2 - Unseen timeline
Timeline 3 - Trunks timeline
Timeline 4 - Our timeline
Timeline 5 - Black's timeline
Timeline 6 - Timeline with 2 Trunks and 2 Mais
Timeline 7 - U12 guy

>>152489681
Yes thats correct you filthy nigger.

>>152489528
Interesting how there's humans in U12

>>152489718
>Timeline with 2 Trunks and 2 Mais
Hasnt happened in the manga yet.
Might not become canon

>>152489747
Earthling being the first to be able to time travel is anime only.
Manga talks about some ningen of u12 to have done it first. Since toyo had a bit of an advance for the universal arc maybe he gave us some foreshadowing

>>152489747
He's a ningen (mortal/humanoid) not a human.

>>152489681
Yeah thats the correct timeline for the manga.
>>152489718
That one would be for the anime but anime has 6 rings and hasnt mention the u12 time traveller so you can take that one off.

>>152489836
Ok, must have been mistranslation

>>152489855
The 2 Trunks 2 Mais timeline is still gonna happen in the manga.

Goku has the Zeno button. It's obvious the ending will be the same.

>>152489681
>>152489718
Then how did Trunks get the Shutdown controllers? The androids destroyed the controllers of their own time when they offed Gero. The location of the lab could have been anywhere on the planet for all he knew its highly improbably he randomly found it. He would have had to go to the past to get the schematics.

How the fuck will trunks escape on the manga against black and zamasu? Zamasu just has to use his overpowered telekinesis and black cuts him open. Only way I can see him get out of there is tear gas.

>>152489965
Trunks got the shutdown controllers from the unseen timeline read
>>152489248 thats the same trunks who gets killed by cell and gets his time machine stolen. For an unknown reason though trunks set that time machine 1 year before the arrival of frieza

>>152489965
How is this hard to get?

>Trunks goes back in time
>KIlls Mecha Freeza and Cold
>Goes back to his time, comes back 3 years later to fight the androids
>they follow Gero to the lab
>androids are released
>they all get BTFO
>Trunks and Krillin go to Gero's lab to investigate just like in canon
>Since there's no Cell yet, they just deactivate the androids with the remote
>Trunks then goes to the future, does the same thing and gets killed by Cell
>Cell travelling back in time creates a split past timeline

This is how it has to play out.

>>152489870
Human is the direct translation, but in this context it means humanoids or from a perspective of a deity: a mortal.

>>152490065
But in the timeline Future Trunks that didn't die came from Goku killed the Colds and then died so the first Trunks couldn't have gone to that timeline. or he'd have saved Goku there too. And also how could there be a Cell at the Cell games in the 4th timeline when it happens before the androids even woke in that timeline. Also in the timeline where Vegeta doesn't train with Trunks he is as much of a dick as ever and just revels in killing. I don't think he'd have let Cell evolve for a greater challenge. When at any point did Vegeta ever display this behavior until training with Trunks made him extra cocky.

>>152490362
>or he'd have saved Goku there too.
He did. Goku said he just didn't teleport because Trunks intervened. The exact same thing happened. If Trunks hadn't intervened in our timeline, then Goku would have killed htem.

>And also how could there be a Cell at the Cell games in the 4th timeline when it happens before the androids even woke in that timeline
That's a plot hole, the guy who made the guide probably forgot that there's no Cell in the 4th timeline.

> I don't think he'd have let Cell evolve for a greater challenge.
Cell doesn't exist in that timeline because he didn't come from the future. Cell created our timeline when he travelled back.

>>152490362
>And also how could there be a Cell at the Cell games in the 4th timeline when it happens before the androids even woke in that timeline
The cell games refer to the main story. Why its in T4 is because during the time where the cell games should have been held there was no trunks.

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>>152490362
> And also how could there be a Cell at the Cell games in the 4th timeline when it happens before the androids even woke in that timeline

since no one went into the RoSaT and Piccolo didn't fuse with Kami, everyone was so weak even Imperfect Cell could make his own tournament : ^ )

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The funny thing is that Toriyama doesn't give a quarter of a SHIT about timelines and all that autism headcanon you guys are sperging over, and he never did.

>>152490539
>>152490559
>>152490430
There is a youtube series detailing timeline 4 it is the best DB live action that will ever exist.

https://youtu.be/HM20wwzl4Ds

https://youtu.be/opji5DgE_nQ

the first one is the story of the Kid Trunks of timeline 4 who has grown up with Cell having killed everyone already.

The second is just a teaser because the first did so well this year a feature length detailing the Trunks absent androids and imperfect cell saga.

>>152490745
Toyo does :^)

>>152490745
Thats why we have toyotaro you cuck to fix the mess of the anime.

>>152490821
>>152490791
but manga is not canon :)

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>>152490846
bait/10

>>152488735
>Bleach
>Shitty choreography
>Shitty paneling
>No backgrounds
>Believing it has better battles

Outside a couple of exceptions, Bleach battles were absolute shit.

>>152490876
Manga is done by Toyotaro, so it's not canon. Anime follow Toriyama's instructions, so it is canon.
Any questions? I'll answer them to you tomorrow, go to bed now or you'll wake up mommy.

>>152490846
Manga> anime in terms of canon.
Who was the one who revealed the link between kaioshin and beerus? Manga
Who was the one who revealed that dakashin was whis father? Manga
Who was the one who revealed that zamasu plan goes beyond then just one timeline? Manga
Who works the closest with toryiama and gets actually revised by him? MANGA

>>152490791
>>152490821
Super's manga still has timeline plot holes.

>>152477121
Good theory except a single finger flick from Goku holding back at 0.000000000000000000000005 of his power should release enough kinetic energy to blow off the entire atmosphere.

Every time Goku and Not Zamasu hit eachother they should subatomize the entire planet from the leftover kinetic energy from the clash.

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>>152490950
(You)

>>152490950
>Anime follow Toriyama's instructions, so it is canon
No they have toryiama script just like the manga has to but toei still does their own thing. Even toryiama said in an interview that he was not involved with what they're doing.

>>152490950

The manga is the one that follows Toriyama's instructions. The anime only follows Toriyama's outlines and fill the rest with a shitload of fillers.

>>152490966
No it hasnt. If you would actually follow the manga you would know why there are 6 rings.

>>152490964
>Who was the one who revealed the link between kaioshin and beerus?
>Who was the one who revealed that dakashin was whis father?
>Who was the one who revealed that zamasu plan goes beyond then just one timeline?
Anime, stop speedwatching

>>152490978
I just love how you have an entire folder dedicated to this. You're so assblasted that your little manga done by a cuck that is not Toriyama isn't in fact canon that you have to screencap cherrypicked proof and shitpost them on a taiwanese bullet factory to feel superior. 0/10

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>>152491084

>>152491084
I am an anime fan but even I know that all those stuff were revealed in the manga first. Also going beyond different timelines was never even mentioned in the anime.

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>>152490974

This is why time travel is fucking stupid and Cell, Black and Zamasu are DB's worst arcs.

>>152491534
crawling in my skin

>>152490974

There are no physical feats that would place them at the level you are describing them at, autist. Moreover, DBZ is clearly a special setting where regular physics wouldn't necessary apply.

Fucking universes are on top of rocks floating at Zeno's palace. IRL Logic clearly isn't a top priority.