Anno is an unoriginal hack

There's more originality in Eva than in a show that even rips off its title.

>>152465213
Eva rips off of Ideon and other 80s Mecha series

>>152465293
How is "Shinseiki Evangelion" a ripoff of "Densetsu no Kyoujin Ideon" or "Neon Genesis Evangelion" a ripoff of "Space Runaway Evangelion"?
"Choujikuu Seiki Orguss" would be more reasonable.

Wow it took you this long to realize Anno is a hack?

>>152465411
Because it's just following the same format all mecha series did back then.

And that still doesn't change the fact that Eva is just a retread of Gunbuster and Nadia. So that makes it even less original than those two.

>>152465472
>>152465472
>So that makes it even less original than those two.
They have the same amount of originality = 0.
Ideon and the like weren't innovative either. Even Mazinger Z went with established routes.

>>152465530
I thought Mazinger Z started everything

>>152465581
That's because you know nothing about it or what came before.

>>152465622
Then enlighten me, anon-kun.
What did Go Nagai rip off of?

>>152465657
Dante and various authors of the 50s and 60s.

>>152465732
Ah, so no Anime works whatsoever. Just like I figured.

>>152465751
Go Nagai was more of a comic guy. Toei handled the classic anime based on his works.
Is it very original to make a cartoon version of a special effects series?

>>152465843
Everything was inspired by something else. There's nothing in this world that is truly 100% original.

However Nagai definitely set some sort of standard for many works to come.

>>152465883
He couldn't even set a standard for his own works.

>>152465947
And yet he was able to inspire a generation of Manga authors and Anime directors.

>>152465969
Just like Anno with Evangelion.

>>152465969
Not as much as Ishinomori or Yokoyama.
Not to mention Tezuka who personally worked on a lot of anime.

>>152465995
Anno is an unoriginal hack though

>>152466089
Everything was inspired by something else. There's nothing in this world that is truly 100% original.

However Anno definitely set some sort of standard for many works to come.

Sure Anno took elements from plenty of other works.
But the way he combined them and formed a new thing out of it was fucking amazing.

Go and watch Ideon TV and tell me it's better than Eva, I dare you.

>>152466089
No. See Nadia and Kare Kano for proof.
Maybe he's not original because both of these are loose adaptations but he's a good director.

>>152466218
I'm still not seeing many parallels between Ideon and Eva. Ideon and Macross would be a different story.

>people take thread written by fujoshi trying to justify her ship seriously

>>152466261
Maybe he's good at directing, but he can't write for shit.

>>152466340
>Sadamoto: We had talked a lot in the beginning about wanting a title like "Space Runaway Ideon (Legendary Giant God Ideon)", so I think I did push that. And to tell the truth, the story composition is also similar. For example, Nerv can be considered the same as the Solo Ship fighting a lonely battle against both humankind and the Buff Clan, and then there are the incomprehensible robots that can only communicate with children and tend to geo berserk, etc. It might not be an exaggeration to say that if you add "Ideon" and "Devilman" together and divide by two, you get "Evangelion".

Sumissu is nothing like Kaworu at all, what the fuck are you smoking?

>>152466503
I think if you replaced Ideon with Zambot 3 it would make more sense. That's Tomino's real masterpiece.

>>152466567
I haven't seen Eva in a while, but the whole dying in the same episode you're introduced didn't seem like a coincidence to me

>>152466460
Yeah, not like the masters Go Nagai or Tomino.

>>152466213
Anno admits to blatantly ripping off other Anime/Manga.

Nagai never did that.

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>>152466340
Viewer gets faced with a lot of questions.
What is the Ide? Why did the 6th civilisation die out?
What are the angles? What's this Adam/Lilith shit etc.

Mecha have their own will and will act on their own to keep the pilot alive.

Ending has everybody "dying" and turning into a collective conciousness.

Some of the characters are really similar, though way more developed in Eva.

see pic related, before that she says she has a natural talent as a pilot
Or the crazy scientist women.

>>152466662
Show me where he describes his work as a "blatant ripoff"

>>152466719
That Interview he did with Nagai

>>152466715
That's common stuff you'll find in a lot of anime. You've got to ask if they even apply to Ideon or Eva.

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>>152465108
>>152466662
I like shitposting about how shit Gunbuster & Eva are, but it's pretty clear his works are of a homage/parody level, not a ripoff.

>>152466850
I think the point is he's incapable of writing anything that isn't a blatant parody of something else

>>152466850
Why is that image of Hiromi scaled so badly? Even Paint doesn't have to be that way.

>>152466823
Give me the quote

>>152467022
I need to go find the interview, but here's one quote I had on me:
>Sadamoto: When the very first meeting was held before the title had even been decided, Anno had already provided the theme of "a battle between gods and humans". Both Anno and I -- our generation -- was influenced by Go Nagai, so making something on a grand scale meant it ended up like "Devilman".

>>152467487
Acknowledging influences is not the same thing as "blatantly ripping off."

>>152467022
Found it, give it a read:
http://forum.evageeks.org/post/401342/Translated-interview-between-Nagai-and-Anno/

>>152468371
Thanks, I will.

>>152468371
Anyone have the original? I don't trust translations.

>>152468611
Yes, here's the raw
https://yuki.la/m/13721063

>evafags flying in to defend anno
>this whole thread

>>152468677
Evafags are retarded and haven't watched more than 5 Anime that aired before 2000

>>152466825
Nah. What they have in common is the psychological stuff.

>>152468965
There's very little psychology in Eva or Ideon.

Whats the point of this thread?
Anno was the director, but he wasn't involved in writing the majority of the episodes. He didn't write the Smith episodes either.
Hiroyuki Yamaga did.

I appreciate the patented 4chan shitposting, but try a bit harder.

>>152469075
Anno doesn't write any episodes, but he always works with the scriptwriters and tells them what he wants to happen in each episode.

>>152469044
Many people would disagree.

>>152469151
Many people watched them under false pretenses and imagine things that aren't really there.

>>152469396
Do tell.

>>152469044
Come on, this must be the oldest bait on /a/. Anyone biting should kill themselves.

Anno was always a hack, he's a talented animator but the root of the problem is that people reflect the environment they're in and he's an otaku. Likewise, he only retreads what he's already experienced. If you couldn't figure out that Eva is literally edgy Ultraman fan fiction you can leave.

>>152469582
Thank you.

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Noriko's my role model.

>>152469478
Never overestimate Tomino-fags.

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>>152469912
>Poor man's Shinji

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>>152470049

>>152466567
Are you fucking retarded?

>>152470110
Underrated waifu

>>152465581
That would be Tetsujin.

>>152465883
>There's nothing in this world that is truly 100% original.


Oh yeah? Check this shit out:

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>>152466617
You just aren't used to episodic TV.

>>152465883
It's not bad to be derivative, what becomes problematic in my opinion is being derivative of derivatives.

>>152473936
>problematic
>>>/tumblr/

>>152473936
That doesn't even make sense. If everything is derivative, then everything is also a derivative of a derivative.

>>152465108
>These two are literally prototype Kaworu and Shinji.
>Why is Anno such a hack?

That is Noriko and the Smith character created in homage to TOREN SMITH who did a lot to popularize anime at BayCon in the greater san francisco area.

Toren Smith was no Shinji.

>>152474421
Noriko is Shinji

>>152466850
>no MANRY girls anymore
Why, Japan?

>>152465995
>RahXephon
It's literally copy-pasta Evangelion script.

>>152470049
Shinji is poor fag's Noriko

>>152473978
Let me expand, it's problematic to be derivative of something in the same realm. For example, Lupin the Third is obviously based off old french novels, it brings in something from outside of the realm of animation/comics and enhances the idea using the medium. Because of this it's an interesting cross-cultural product and part of it's novelty.

Anno is an otaku who makes otaku entertainment primarily based off of otaku entertainment. He is lucky that there are enough young or inexperienced weebs and otaku who buy into his regurgitated style. What I find problematic about it is that it's primarily masturbatory. Fun, well animated, and damn good stuff, but masturbatory and derivative of the culture it comes from. Something that looks outside of the space it exists in for inspiration has the potential to be more interesting not only to the people who exist in the space by showing them new exciting things but also has an opportunity to resonate with people unfamiliar with the culture it comes from by not alienating them.

The Star Wars prequels are a wonderful example of this problem actually. Lucas is a hack too, just like Anno. They should hang out sometime.

>>152473969
What's the matter friend? Did I trigger you? :^)

>>152476043
Character studies and thematic depth were also something from outside of the realm of animation/comics before NGE came around.

>>152476504
Not that I agree with that guy at all, but watch more anime.

>>152476564
I watched all the pre-90s shows that get mentioned often and none of those two aspects applies to any of them.

>>152476728
If you honestly believe that, in the nearly 40 years of anime before NGE, nothing ever had "thematic depth" or psychologically examined its characters then you've either not watched enough anime or you're fucked in the head.

Why do people say that EVA is the best anime ever made? Is it just blind fanboys?

>>152476948
Highest popularity to quality ratio. It's really good and a ton of people have watched it.

>>152476948
Newfags to Anime

>>152465108
Anno did NOT write Gunbuster, he at least didn't do the original treatment.

Anno has not been responsible for a successful original story outside of Eva, period. When you add to that the fact that the story of Eva is a fucking mess, then the fact is clear: Anno's strengths were never as a writer. He's a genius director, nobody should deny his greatness there, but he can't write for shit. The industry knows he can't write for shit, every original story he's come up with outside of Eva was a flop, and what's more, HE knows he can't write for shit which is why he's handed off story running responsibilities on Eva to others.

Mobile Suit Gundam did everything NGE did except better and far less annoying.

>>152473867
>implying
https://libraryofbabel.info/
THis has got you beat.

gainax and trigger as a whole have rehashed or ripped off ace o nerae so many times

>>152476908
Anime used to be simple before NGE. Vast majority of anime before very late 70s were kids shows and fist half of the 90s had nothing in it, so there is actually only about 10 years of anime that could have what I singled out. Then again, you could post examples and try to prove me wrong.

>>152476728
Yeah this is about the level of knowledge I expect from /a/. Thank you for not disappointing me.

>>152478019
Horus, Prince of the Sun (1968)

>>152478176
It's laughable how retrofags can only make blank statements about how good their shows are but always fail to articulable actual arguments proving their quality.

>>152478342
Saw the wolf scene. Seemed pretty straight forward movie.

>>152478421
Horus is widely credited with the things you're attributing to Evangelion.

>>152478421
I'm not even talking about what's good and what isn't. I'm just telling you that you know jack shit about anime.

>>152478548
It's not like you exhibited any anime knowledge to justify your trash talking.

>>152465108
>prototype Kaworu and Shinji.
Nigger, it's more than that. Gunbuster is literally a ripoff Aim for the Ace.

>>152478828
Right but I also didn't say retarded crap that made me look like a jackass who doesn't know what he's talking about. I don't know why you're asking me to merch if you can't even yourself.

>>152478885
Who cares? Gunbuster is nice for the fun first episode that is an obvious parody, the old-school mecha designs and the cool ending, that's it.

>>152478916
I generalised a bit but nothing I said is that far form the truth as you make it out to be.

>>152479234
>Talk out your ass
>Get called out for talking out your ass
>Backpedal and downplay you talking out your ass

That's all I see here.

>>152479301
>You are wrong because I said so
That's all I see here.

>>152479234
You full on said that "character studies and thematic depth" didn't exist in animation and comics before 1995.

>>152479370
We aren't even talking about what was originally being discussed anymore. We're talking specifically about your behavior.

>>152466261
>Kare Kano
You mean after Anno quit and passed on duties to his protege? Kazuya Tsurumaki made Kare and Kano notable and what it is known for today.

>>152479406
Then name a character study that came out before NGE. Preferably one with some merit behind the psychological exploration.

>>152479556
That doesn't matter much since all of the responses I ever got were
>You are wrong because I said so

>>152479757
Ashita no Joe(1968)

>>152479796
Let him go, this thread will be a valuable life lesson for him.

>>152478019
I mean, Majokko Megu-chan existed and dealt with morality, substance abuse, domestic violence and other social commentary for a children's series. That, and, it glorified eroticism and helped proliferate fanservice in anime.

>>152479757
"Vivid, visceral and violent, yet charged with kinetic energy,Horusintroduced a number of technical and stylistic innovations, and established a new paradigm of Japanese animation: adult storytelling,psychological realism, visual complexity, overt political and social themes, and stylistic violence. This is the first Japanese animated feature to successfully disrupt the Walt Disney paradigm, and greatly expanded the possibilities of the medium beyond "children's cartoons." Unsuccessful in its original 1968 theatrical run,Horus, Prince of the Sunis today recognized as a milestone in the history of anime."

Anno was in Death Kappa so everything you say is invalid.

Death Kappa>Cutie Honey

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FZjo_j2q9Dw

>>152476948
Babby's first serious anime. They watch it because of the hype, and then think it's original.

>>152479757
Mobile Suit Gundam.

>>152479061
>Who cares?
Obviously OP, as I replied to him, and not you.

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>>152476504
>>152476728
Just wanted to say I'm a huge Evafag that unironically thinks it's deeper than 99% of anime and even I think you're retarded.

>>152479796
In what way is joe a characters study? It's a pretty basic drama about a boxer/coming of age.

>>152480214
So it was good and progressive for when it came out. Don't really see how that make it a good example outside it's historical importance .

>>152480460
The show is constantly in your face with how war is bad and who it makes people act weird and irrational. As a result charters have not very comprehensible mood-swings. Quite far from a character study or a the very least not a good one.

>>152480561
Could you define what makes a work of fiction deep. People claiming that shows aren't that deep usually have nothing specific in mind when the use the term.

>>152480943
>In what way is joe a characters study?
How is it not a character study? What is your definition of character study? The characters turn to the camera and talk about their feelings?

>>152480943
I keep trying to come up with a way to respond seriously to you but honestly fuck it, you're so far gone. You win anon, Evangelion was the first instance of psychological and thematic depth in comics and animation.

>>152480943
>The show is constantly in your face with how war is bad and who it makes people act weird and irrational.
Complete misrepresentation.

MSG shows both sides, and if anything I was sort of put off by how much it became jingoistic. People kept slapping the piss out of Amuro because he didn't want to fight and kill people, including his commanding officer AND his childhood friend / primary romantic interest. They weren't portrayed in a negative light whatsoever. At times not wanting to murder people was almost portrayed as naive idealism, and getting over it as a coming of age ritual.

>As a result charters have not very comprehensible mood-swings.
I'm starting to think you just literally didn't get it.

>Quite far from a character study
This statement is indefensible. Huge portions of the show's run pivot around Amuro's mental state and characterization.

>>152481296
>The characters turn to the camera and talk about their feelings?
Well, he is holding up Eva as a positive example, so I can only assume this is what he thinks makes a good character study.

>>152466909
Because people don't know how to use Paint even at the basic level. It's embarrassing what plebs are on computers these days.

ITT: people whose minds were blown by the Freudian terminology in NGE episode titles

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>>152480943
>The show is constantly in your face with how war is bad and who it makes people act weird and irrational. As a result charters have not very comprehensible mood-swings.
Yeah. They don't even give long monologues to explain their motivations. How are you supposed to comprehend that?
Good thing there was Anno to invent deep psychological anime about mommy issues all on his own.

>>152476948
Because they think that Eva was the first to "deconstruct/subvert" robot anime.

Evangelion is the Hamlet of anime. It's based on a classic story, spiced up with shoehorned-in philosophy, becomes more about the main character's state of mind than the plot, and goes completely off the rails into a gratuitous bloodbath at the end.