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Is Shirou Emiya the most complex and best written Seigi no mikata

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Is Shirou Emiya the most complex and best written Seigi no mikata of the anime and VN medium?
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>>152197740
According to reddit, yes
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>>152197740
Yes.
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>>152197768

But reddit hates Shirou, They are mostly Fate/zero secondaries there.
>>
Prisma Shirou > the others
>>
I just came from a reddit thread arguing the exact same thing, and as I previously commented on that website, yes, I do believe so.
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>>152197740
Miyu!Shirou > shit > Fate!Shirous
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>>152198156
>Actually knowing what reddit like.
Fuck off redditor.
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>>152198916
This, fuck I love Prisma Shirou
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>>152199121
This looks fucking awful. I'm cringing a little
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>>152199235
Hey man, take this. (you)
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>>152199285
disgusting
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Shirou is a mess. I enjoy the concept of BEING MADE OF SWORDS and the fact that he took Kiritsugu's salvation to retarded extremes, but Nasu changes his personality all the time to suit his needs.

In Fate he is a retard that makes terrible decisions, even by his seigi no mikata logic, all the time and is saved by Avalon up his ass every day.

Nasu tries to give him PTSD to justify his unrealistic ambitions, but only when it's convenient. The rest of the time he's immersed in goofy high school shenanigans and acts like your typical VN protagonist. He is portrayed as extremely selfless and altruistic, but the most you see him doing are Shinji's chores while he lives in a mansion with Kiritsugu's money and getting help by everyone
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>>152199445
Not to mention the H scenes where he frequently expresses arousal to violence being inflicted on the female characters. And that scene where he wanted to fuck Illya.
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>>152199547
I dismiss TYPE-MOON's sex scenes as an obligaton from last decade needed to sell copies of their games. Not only are they hilariously bad, CG dragons and dolphins are better excuses for mana transfers.
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>>152197740
> All these EOPs replying

No.
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>>152197740
Unironically yes.
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>>152197740
>liking sword so much to even becoming one
>if you wan't to be strong a sword you have to think like one
>complex

why do we even reply to those threads anymore?
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>>152199547
That's just Nasu's inner sadist being channeled, Shirou's thoughts during h-scenes might as well be non-canon. It worked with Shiki, it's breaking character with him.

>>152200263
I want to play it. With Dies Irae and Baldr Sky both happening now, I'm sure it's only a matter of time, right?
>>
>>152199285
>>152199121
I don't understand how people can unironically like this trash.
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>>152200422
That's nothing like his character, secondary-kun. Read the VN.
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>>152200338
This doesn't really make sense, though. It never has. It's just meaningless pontifications.
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How I become a sword and a swigi no mikata?
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>>152200432
You forgot Tokyo Babel.
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>>152200338
Shirou is such a pleb. If he can't save everyone then that just means he's not trying hard enough.
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>>152200464
This, it's so fanfiction-y, almost as bad as some of the fanservice in FGO. Although I'm sure the movie will probably be fun.
>>
>>152199445

This, pretty much.

He's called a machine who's pretending to be a human, but he's actually very human. It's just an excuse for him to be superhumanly stubborn in things like fights. He has a porn stash, he gets embarrassed when he sees women naked and tries to pretend it doesn't turn him on at all, he derives enjoyment from doing things well like cooking and cleaning, he hates some people but likes others, he gets terrified of dying, he makes friends and falls in love, and he feels genuine sadness and regret.

It's just an excuse to have a character who is a pretty ordinary guy but also is magically able to put up with pain and pressure and fear in ways no ordinary person could possibly.
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>>152197740
I don't regret involving myself with he material because it's a perfect case study in how to make a delusional. unlikable character that believes himself the hero of the story.
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>>152200492
>It's just meaningless pontifications.
That's pretty much every character in Fate though. Shallow characters that are presented in pompous ways to make them seem more than they are.
>>
>>152200488
Not anon. I did read the VN. It sucked. It felt like I was reading something written for Jr highschool students, and I was bored out of my mind the entire time until I dropped it midway through HF. People should just watch Zero and forget about the rest of this overrated franchise
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>>152199106
Doesn't that just mean you've turned reddit into a boogeyman?
What if they're actually a much better community?

You comment is probably the most stupid comment I've ever seen in my whole time on 4chan.
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>>152197740
He's cool but essentailly he's just UBW Shirou with HW mentality and access to a less shitty Archer's arm
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>>152200583
No you didn't.

If you didn't like it you wouldn't have read it 3/4 of the way.
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>>152200578
It's not completely devoid of any genuinely creative or interesting writing, for sure. I just really disliked the portrayal of shirou. It felt very cheesey and juvenile much of the time.
>>
>>152197740
the only things I really like about shirou are the ways he contrasts with shiki because I find that kind of duality between "sequels" interesting

guy himself is a real snore, he's not consistently a sociopath like the SHIROU IS DEEP people say and beyond that all he has are memes and asspull powerups
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>>152200614
Oh, didn't I, now?

You are dead wrong. I wanted to like it. I really, really did. And admittedly, I am exaggerating somewhat because the bait makes me chuckle. There were a few good bits that were nice, interesting. Nasu is a good idea man. But 90% of the actual reading (I mean "playing") is just completely boring and monotonous. Maybe it's because I was spoiled on almost every plot element by /a/. But I didn't have a good time.
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>>152200595
>What if they're actually a much better community?
B...b-but what if mhu plebbit's better? :(

>You comment is probably the most stupid comment I've ever seen in my whole time on 4chan.
probably your first week here, I'd imagine

unironically neck yourself
>>
>>152200544
Uh did you forget the parts where he feels like he doesn't deserve to be happy. Or how he is constantly obsessively working rather then doing anything fun. He may get satisfaction out of a job well done but that's different then doing things for fun.

His only friends are Issei, who's super serious and almost as much a workaholic as him, Shinji, who basically took advantage of Shirou more then anything else, and Sakura, who he does his best to deny he's attracted to because dating the cute kohai who clearly likes you isn't something he deserves.

Dude did something that could kill him if the slightest thing went wrong, every night, for years for almost no benefit.
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>>152200773
Not him, but I refuse to believe you'd read the 70+ hours required to get halfway through HF, only to drop right before the part that's unanimously considered the peak of the VN (and if you were spoiled that hard you should know about that).
>>
>>152200815

All the things you described are intrinsically human qualities.

His status as a 'machine' is really poorly justified.
>>
>>152200488
>>152200614
>I don't like thing
>Read the VN and you'll like thing
>I still don't like thing
>If you didn't like thing why did you read the vn =)

thanks for being more honest than most people that use the word secondary, but you're just as much of an asshole. You can't say "read the VN and then complain" and then act surprised when someone takes you seriously and reads it just to critique it.

It's just an excuse you have to justify liking trash, every time there's a fate adaption you motherfuckers get BTFO a little bit more. I can't wait till the HF movies and thus your last refuge of being able to hide behind a large entry barrier to win arguments is gone.
>>
Literally everyone else is more interesting than Shirou
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>>152200868
>70+ hours

is this the type of person that thinks fate is really good? literal elementary school level reading speed?
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>>152200810
I've personally never gone on Reddit, but you literally got mad at someone for trying to learn something new and actually form an opinion while you actively declare your hatred of Reddit.

That's dumb as hell.
>>
>>152200897
>liking sword so much to even becoming one
>if you wan't to be strong a sword you have to think like one
>complex
All I did was call bullshit on you because there's no way someone read the VN and unironically thinks that description is even remotely similar to Shirou's character.
>>
>>152200815
>Uh
>>>reddit
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>>152197740
Fate is a shit series, I hope you don't seriously believe what you typed.
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I hate type moon fags so fucking much.
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>>152201096
>>>>reddit
Stop trying to fit in, you fucking newfag and lurk.
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>>152200432
It's in JAST hell. Maybe it'll come out in the next 10 years? Nothing's for certain.

I mean, even if it does come out early, stuff like the Tsukihime remake and a bunch of other games are going to take even longer to translate and people are just going to beg needlessly. Don't mind me, I'll just be reading Dies before it turns into kusoge.
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>>152200868
Believe it or not, I read all of Fate and all of UBW (ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ). Fuck Sakura.

>muh edgy victim nympho waifubait

I'm not interested in that. I do kind of regret not seeing Kirei's dialogue. He is one of the most interesting characters. But I was so sick of it by that point I didn't care.
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>>152201145
Sorry your favorite chuunishit doesn't get all these anime adaptations by different studios, many of them movie budget. And so many interconnected spin-offs and shit.
Should've had better taste.
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>>152201005
>got mad at "someone"
come on boy, no need to act ambiguous, you are obviously the same faggot

Everyone is free, no, should I say, invited to go to reddit and peak trough the iron bars of that chimpanzee habitat, but is when he comes back and starts spewing cultural relativistic retardation like "wait, you guys, what if the society the chimpanzees have built is as good or even, dare I say, better that our" that you actually become an irredeemable turbo mongloid.
>>
>>152201145
I didn't mind Tsukihime in a campy kinda way.
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>>152200868
FSN is 40 hours, 50 at most
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>>152201212
If you put the effort in to read the other two, there's no much reason to not read Heaven's Feel. Even if you hate Sakura it is still worth it
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>>152201255
I don't trust people that use non-anime reaction images on an anime board.
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>>152201284
Don't bother senpai, that's the kind of poor sod who'll never get to experience the pure joy of Fate/stay Night. It's the same kind of deal as secondaries who start Fate/Zero and then expect FSN to be something completely different, except the opposite, where he knew too much before going in.
A shame not everyone can get into the series completely unspoiled, because it's a hell of a ride.
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Why it's so hard to understand?
Shirou cam be happy and such but his ideal of "saving everyone" overrides everything, it's really simple.
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>>152201299
>Simpsons
>not an anime

Next thing you are going to say avatar the last air bender is not an anime, could you imagine how everyone would laugh at you?
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>there are people who criticizes Fate's prose while reading the shitty translation
I hope you guys don't do this.
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>>152197740
Fate route
>shirou: muh Saber should stay at home and cook
>the end

UBW
>strawman: muh being a hero of justice is wrong for some reason
>shirou: no u
>the end

Fate/SN is literally dogshit. The houseplants in my room could write a better story.
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>>152201537
>implying it'll ever pull a Muv Luv and get a new translation
>>
>>152201631
No faggot, he's implying you should read the original in Japanese if you want to criticize its prose.
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>>152197740
I find his character pretty contrived desu senpai.
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>>152201609
Your descriptions are the only strawmen here buddy.
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Kirei is the best Fate character
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>>152201005
Lebbit is the fucking devil. And if you think otherwise you need to find yourself a different website to frequent, newfreind.

Also why did you put your last sentence down here like this?
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>>152201157
>/implying/
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>>152201255
You fucked up /tv/
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>>152201537
>it'll be good if you learn moon

Nice try /a/
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>>152202176
Where the fuck do you think you are you crossboarding retard?
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>>152201770
He is certainly more interesting than Shirou for some reason. Maybe his motives are easier to relate to, and so don't feel as canned and corny
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>>152202219
>finding some worth in being irredeemably evil is easier to relate to than accepting or rejecting a life of sacrifice
wew lad
>>
>>152202219
>I can't feel happiness unless I hurt people
How is this easier to relate to than
>I can't feel happiness unless I help people
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>>152197740
You sound like a massive faggot
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>>152202219
because he's a villain and pretty much does it all for his own personal amusement
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>>152202176
Get the fuck outta /a/. I swear to God I want my weeb paradise back.

Lord Urobutcher please heed my call and smite these casuals. Maybe Nasu can do something useful too.>>152202132
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>>152202416
No he doesn't. A lot of the random bullshit in the middle yeah, but his ultimate goal is anything but "personal amusement".
>>
Yep

Saber and Rin are also the two best waifus of ALL TIME
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>>152202603
Swords > waifus
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>>152202637
You want swords? Gilgamesh is your man

This series is perfection
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>>152202320
>>152202349
Shirou
>Muh obscure traumatic childhood experiences and related compulsive psychosis that closely resemble and are often indistinguishable from typical shounenshit
Kirei
>I want to be a good person but I'm kind of complete cunt so I might as well enjoy it and make the best of it
>>
>>152201414
>Tfw you got into F/SN before UBW.
>Somehow managed to not get spoiled.
>Just thought the Red Man being Shirou was a meme like Rider being Sakura.
>Mfw the madman actually did it.
Sparks Liner High is the best ending.
>>
How's Fate/GO?
>>
>>152197740
More like one of the worst characters. This guy make me want to punch him in the face whenever he opens his stupid mouth.

>Inb4 read/play the VN you secondary

I played the Fate route and I couldn't do anymore, this guy is a literal retard and I don't want to play from his pov for another second. The only good thing about the VN was watching the bad endings where he meets grim/brutal deaths, that at least made the VN tolerable enough to play till the end of first route. I watched UBW anime which made him even worse which I didn't think was possible.
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>>152197740
Sumanai is a way better seigi no mikata.
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>>152202927
you are so cool i bet your waifu sucks my dick faggot
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>>152202927
Explain why he's a retard.
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>>152202927
What's wrong with Shirou?
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>>152202788
Sucks
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>>152202927
Rin should have been the MC.
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>>152197768
>>152199027
>>152198156
>>152199106

This shit needs to be wordfiltered I swear.
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>>152203028
Kek sausuga
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>>152197740
I don't see any characters in your picture. That's just a sword.
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>>152202693
So, you were literally born evil?
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>>152203136
>evil
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>>152203002
Because everything he does is "super heroic and noble" in an eyerollingly retarded way that the plot bends itself to flatter. For an alleged shounen deconstruction character, the Fate route especially sure reads like a typical shounen. >i have just transcended common sense.jpg

UBW is not much better, if at all. HF is the only place where Shirou feels like an actual character and not a childish cartoon hero, and that route sucks.
>>
>>152203136
Sometimes I feel that way desu. I understand it's just drama, but it's drama I can relate to. Unlike Shirou, I have never had a problem with being too GOOD of a person lol, and I can't relate. I don't think it's too much to assume that most people are more similar to mine.
>>
>>152203230
>Because everything he does is "super heroic and noble" in an eyerollingly retarded way
This is just circular logic, examples?
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>>152202989
F/SN would have been so much better if it didn't have someone like Shirou as the MC.

>>152203002
Do I seriously need to explain when its clear that he has a retarded philosophy who's mentally unstable as well as being a hypocrite and is sexist?
>>
>>152203335
>he has a retarded philosophy
Yes, and? He's a completely broken human being who doesn't function correctly at a fundamental level.
>mentally unstable
Yep. Off the rails.
>hypocrite
In what way?
>sexist
Not an issue.
>>
>>152203334
The entire fate route and most of UBW is shirou doing stupidly dangerous shit for obscire and specious reasons. It's been several years since I read it, so I'm not going to wade into the weeds with you over particulars. Rather, show me an example to the contrary, yourself.
>>
>>152203335
The "sexism" is Nasu's way of writing romance, funnily enough
>>
>>152203335
His mental instability and hypocrisy is part of the character exploration. Do you consider war veterans with PDSD "retarded" just because their traumas make them act illogically? His sexism is just an act.
>>
>>152197740
No. Yang Wenli is.
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>>152203412
>how is he a hypocrite?
He rapes Rin, for starters.
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>>152203498
>Taking the forced in sex scenes for marketing seriously
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>>152203498
She wanted it.
>>
>>152203468
It's an interesting idea for a character, but not a MC. I'm not sure even actual war veterans would find Shirou's motives compelling or relatable. War veterans are not known for their compassion for others or their idealism. Typically they are suspicious, jaded people.

This is the fundamental problem with Shirou: his story and experience is something not many people can relate to or care about. He's boring because his ideals are so abstract and devoid of reason. Characters who's motivations are based in insanity are best left in the supporting cast.
>>
>>152203521
Nasu confirmed the ero scenes are canon. Somebody post the link
>>
>>152203421
He does "stupid shit" because the last time he didn't out of logical reasoning, it gave him crippling survivor's guilt. You can call it stupid if you want, but it's hardly "obscire? and specious".
>>
>>152203724
*obscure

The fact that Nasu felt the need to repeat the fire scene 20 times in the VN demonstrates the lack of meaningful characterization in Shirou. Why do we care about his survivors guilt? Why does it matter?
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>>152203618
>I'm not sure even actual war veterans would find Shirou's motives compelling or relatable
That's because Shirou is wrong on a fundamental level. Severely PTSD'd veterans usually were normal people before suffering mental issues, but Shirou grew up like that.
>his is the fundamental problem with Shirou: his story and experience is something not many people can relate to or care about
I personally don't see why you would need to relate to or actually care about the character to enjoy it. He's not supposed to be relatable in the first place. The VN serves as a look into the inner workings of an obsessive lunatic made out of SWORDS and there's just no way that's going to be relatable. The idea behind him is a welcome change to the usual self-insert MCs, even if the implementation isn't perfect.
>He's boring because his ideals are so abstract and devoid of reason.
I like him as a character. He's obsessed to the point of self-harm with the impossible idea of being a champion of justice and saving everyone and I like characters that are bonkers like that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP-cSnTd-sU
>>
>>152203816
>Why do we care about his survivors guilt? Why does it matter?
How is this supposed to be answered? Why do we care about any fictional character and why does it matter?
I will admit Nasu could have used a lot more brevity.
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>>152202752
Bruh, I didn't even know Saber was King Arthur. I had virtually no contact with the franchise until people freaked the fuck out about the HF movie announcements in 2014 and I decided to give the VN a chance.
Each route raped my brainpussy in ways I never thought imaginable. It's ridiculous, I don't think I'll ever experience such bliss with a fictional story ever again. I can only hope some of the currently untranslated kamige are half as good as people claim they are.
>>
>>152203618
I'm not saying war veterans would find him relatable, just arguing that calling mental disease "retardation" is gross oversimplification.
You aren't supposed to relate to Shirou (I mean, I hope not). Ideals being abstract and devoid of (logical) reason doesn't automatically make it boring for everyone.
>Characters who's motivations are based in insanity are best left in the supporting cast.
Is this a rule in writing?
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Save left or right ?
>>
>>152204445
Shirou's logic would be to save the tram.
>>
>>152204445
Shirou would just throw himself in front of the tram to stop it
>>
It bothers me.
>>
>>152204445
Neither cause I don't read/watch Fate.
>>
>>152203926
>You will never become a seigi no mikata.
Maybe oneday.
I like the doujin that showed Emiya realistically being a hero as a firefighter.
>>
>>152200886
It's almost like it's a metaphor.
>>
>>152197740
Tohno is better
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>>152204445
Trolley thread? Trolley thread.
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>>152201446
Anime pertains to Japanese animation only. Fuck off you filthy crossboarder and kill yourself. And no avatar isn't anime you degenerate westerner.
>>>/co/ and killyourself on the way out.
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>>152208231
Fuck off I'm posting trolleys.
>>
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>>152208290
I reported all your post. your /b/ tier spam doesn't work on /a/.
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>>152197740
Nice try OP but I've never heard of this Seigi no mikata faggot so he's probably just another Shirou ripoff. But don't worry I'll help you out what you should have said instead is
>Is Seigi no mikata the most complex and best written Shirou Emiya of the (Insert whatever medium this shitty knockoff is from here.) medium?
No need to thank me for fixing your mistake.
>>
>>
>>152208341
This isn't spam fuck you. Everyone loves trolleys.
>>
>>152208104
If I new the speed of the trolley I could make a reasonable assumption on what path could would result in less causalities, as it stands, it's impossible to determine.
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>>152208231
>giving your (you) thread virginity to a bait post
are you stupid anon?
>>
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>>152208231
>>
>>152208741
>if I new

I am all but certain that you are indeed new.

The trolley goes on for infinity, the only thing you're changing is how long the infinite amount of people get to live before becoming train paste.
>>
>>152209010
One has an uncountable number of people though, the other just a countable one.
>>
>>152209010
not necessarily, if the initial speed of the trolley is low enough, the path that doesn't double its speed could ensure that at some point, the amount of body parts entrenched within the trolley moving parts could, perhaps, cause the trolley to deviate from it's original course, at the end of the day, the problems says it's moving indefinitely, but not necessarily in the same direction.
>>
Why do Fate threads always turn into shitposting?
>>
>>152210188
Because everything Fate has been discussed to death.
>>
Why is the VN way longer than it needs to be? So much stuff written that can be shortened. Do VNs have editors or do the writers write whatever they want?
>>
>>152210188
Because Fate is a joke now with a shit fanbase.
Thread posts: 153
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