Is this the best thing that came out of the anime medium as a whole?
Nope, the best thing to come out of anime is elvish pornography.
That isn't even the best ghibli film you double nigger
Are you a Disney shill or something? Mononoke isn't even the best Ghibli film, that would be Nausicaa.
It's okay but the characters start not making sense and why the fuck would the insect start caring about a single human when they are furiously heading off to destroy them? The ending is just one rushed nonsense. Having the Spirit of the Forest becoming a mass of death upon losing its head made much more sense metaphorically speaking, and the situation with the characters was much clearer.
>better than anything
Zero character development
MC is screaming retard with weird motivations
Main girl is soulless doll
"Love" is joke
Character interaction is joke
Mononoke is brainless poor's man Nausicaa: Holywood Action Edition and worst Ghibli. I will never understand why this shit is popular so much.
I love Mononoke, and many other anime works. But in all cases, they don't hold up against Evangelion
OP needs to go back to /co/. Everyone else needs to go back to /v/.
>is there something better?
Nope. Akira is the pinnacle of Japanese animation. Watch it only if you're willing to accept that everything you see afterwards will pale in comparison.
I think we can agree that the best years of anime are already behind us. With that said, are there still truly good anime released, say, in the last 5 years? And I don't mean "good on an anime scale", I mean "good on the whole cinematography scale".
Not even the best Ghibli show so It can't be.
I didn't mention either of them. I just want the crossboarders to leave.
A mix of pretentious arthouse bullshit, a swathe of shows from an era where Japs just copied Western cartoons, and a few good films. >>152042010 is unironically better than anything on that list except maybe Akira/Grave of the Fireflies.
Naw, all of Studio Ghibli's films are essentially just Miyazaki telling us his political opinions in animated form, which kinda leads to his movies looking more like lectures than actual films. If I wanted that then I'd go watch Ferngully or something.
I'm not "anti-art", I'm merely against that which attempts to be pretentious and esoteric above all else (i.e. about half the list).
The rest of the list also reeks of bias towards Western animation and against the features which make anime distinct; World Masterpiece Theater can barely be called anime and the fucking children's animal cartoons being on there are beyond parody.
It's certainly better than fucking PUSS IN BOOTS
Mononoke is everything he wanted to say in Naussica, buy refined.
Also, Naussica has all the marks of a too literal manga adaptation. The amount to which Naussica talks to herself and exposits for the audience is ridiculous.
The movies are tied in terms of setting and Naussica's music is just as good as Journey to the West from PM, especially when Hisaishi did that live concert of all his music.
Problem with both is that both English and Japanese actors ham it up when Miyazaki has them spout Greenpeace slogans. mononoke happens to have fewer cringe lines. "I don't wanna be a demon!" Sounds off in both languages.
Naussica does have probably the tightest english cast of any Ghibli Dub.
> Luke Skywalker, Picard, and Adama in the same movie
Mononoke's dub is good too, but the main characters can't hippie yell convincingly, and are out a few by the supporting cast. Even Thornton does a good job despite arguably making the character sound nicer than he does in Japanese. Also, that's hardly a southern accent.
Nothing on there is pretentious or esoteric, although I could see how it might appear that way to someone who doesn't know much about animation or isn't into anime besides what's fairly new or popular in the west. What are the features that you think make anime distinct, by the way?
What I loved about Mononoke Hime was that it went beyond the "protect the enviroment" message that was in Nausicaa. Like >>152043462 said, it was a neutral perspective, and gave the industrialist side a more human viewpoint and not making them out to be monsters, while also not raising the forest side to be benevolent beings.
It pushed a message leaning towards co-habitability, which is really refreshing from the usual environmental messages that essentially command you to give up your current lifestyle and trying to make you feel like shit for being human.
WOW GUYS THIS IS SO AMAZING AND ENTERTAINING
I take them as being different from the original work.
They're still enjoyable because Disney actually fucking hires people who can act their way out of a paper bag.
I think it comes down to whether or not you define anime as cartoons made for a Japanese audience or cartoons made for the Japanese Otaku audience.
I got into anime because directors can switch between the two styles on the fly.
By his definition your average Pixar short is pretentious.
You quoted me twice kek.
Personally my all time fav is Castle in the Sky, but I also unironically enjoyed the dub version. And not the new dub but the older disney dub with all the background chatter that was taken out of the bluray rerelease.
Trust me nigga. I'm no dubfag.
I want to put Tiffany Grant and Spike Spencer in a fucking Gulag.
Yoji Kuri is arguably the most important figure in the history of independent anime.
Anime to me = Japanese animation. Even if you wanted to narrow it down, the list is still of "Japanese animation." Audience is useless for defining things like that.
They should have kissed at the end
I found Princess Mononoke quite mediocre actually. I don't enjoy films whose message is in your face all the time and mononoke hime was exactly that which made it look really cheesy.
Shinsekai Yori on the other hand is an example of "show with a message" done right, the setting and worldbuilding were fantastic, each character had huge depth and at the end you find yourself questioning your own morals, not because the show dictated you to but because it let you apply your own beliefs on the matter. Trully an underappreciated masterpiece.
Me too, What I mean is that you can tell when something is made to appeal to Japanese normies and when something is straight up pandering to Otaku. Nothing wrong with either of those approaches. I enjoy Evangelion because it has things to say to adults, kids, and manchilden like myself, all at the same time. It can switch between all three approaches to whiplash the audience.
About half the things on there were not made for any audience other than the people who made them and a narrow slice of pretentious fuckwits who think that something being sufficiently esoteric and devoid of entertainment makes it good.
If you want something which is intelligent without being overly pretentious or esoteric, and still manages to be entertaining (though something being enjoyable to look at or able to make you laugh probably makes you very uncomfortable), and isn't a sad attempt to copy Disney: pic related.
You didn't take me for some normalfag dipshit who only watches popular battle shounens, did you?
>About half the things on there were not made for any audience other than the people who made them.
Thats pretty much what art IS my man. A message or description that comes out of a person. It can be good or bad, it doesn't really matter.
Which isn't to say your pic can't be good, I would never say that, you're the one insisting that arthouse can't be good.
I'm the kind of person who just decided to rewatch Angel's Egg last night because I moved into a house with a sick ass projector.
By your presumably very narrow and autistic definition of art; maybe I am!
I may have been too sweeping in my judgement. May have just been irked by the overwhelming majority of that list being taken up by either said arthouse films or Miyazaki. There are others (like Astro Boy or the original Gundam) that I personally dislike but whose importance I can readily acknowledge.
Is French anime technically even anime? I know some of it was produced in Japan and had some Japanese people working on it despite airing on French TV.
Eva is undisputed best girl.
> the modern anime fan maybe
I'm pretty sure he's less esoteric to the modern anime fan, at least in the West, than he would have been twenty+ years ago, thanks to wider availability and the internet and all that.
> anyone with a non-casual interest in Japanese animation would know him at least by name
I don't know what your definition of "non-casual" is (your contrast of "anime fan" with "Japanese animation" is also interesting), but I've got a pretty solid powerlevel, and certainly not only modern/mainstream shit, and yet the only reason I know his name is from charts like this and random database entries that turned up when I googled him out of curiosity before.
No - it's people like this.
Who are you quoting?
>MC is screaming retard with weird motivations
I think you should elaborate. If anything Ashitaka was more stoical facing his fate of the curse. His motivations were pretty plain to see as well and there was nothing particularly strange about what he wanted to achieve.
>Main girl is soulless doll
The main girl was a feral human raised by animal gods. She was hardly 'soulless' and certainly grew to change as the show went on.
>Zero character development
For some characters they were essentially established. There was no need for development as they already displayed ample depth in personality and fulfilled their role with that respect. Ashitaka may have been bland but the movie did not explicitly revolve around him as the story developed and he got caught in greater affairs than his own.
Frankly, that definition seems overly specific and tailored to fit your own tastes, especially the latter bit. You're going to discount anyone who isn't big on experimental stuff as a casual, regardless of the depth/degree of their interest in other anime, really? Particularly in the context of >>152046915 , that's just silly - you say "anyone with a non-casual interest in Japanese animation would know him at least by name," but your definition of non-casual turns that into "anyone with a non-passing interest in experimental Japanese animation would know him at least by name." You're just equating experimental shit with all of anime, basically.
Again, that's dumb as fuck and makes your statement in >>152046915 incredibly hollow and disingenuous. Yes, anyone who is interested in experimental animation would know about Kawamoto. That doesn't make him non-esoteric, though, because holy shit, that's pretty much the definition of esoteric - "intended for or likely to be understood by only a small number of people with a specialized knowledge or interest."
I don't think that's a particularly small number of people, or that specialized knowledge is necessary to know his name, but alright sure we can call him esoteric if you like. Basically my whole point is that nothing on that chart is too obscure, nothing there for the sake of making the chart seem more esoteric.
There are levels of that, though. I'd consider "casual" to be someone who only watches JoJo and battle shounens. Where would you place the guy who brought up Jinrui wa Suitai Shimashita?
There's a big gap between "mainstream" and "alternative/experimental," anon. For a random example, Mahoujin Guruguru - good show, far from mainstream, but definitely not experimental, and certainly commercial. Or building off of that, someone could be really into fantasy anime - they watch that, Violinist of Hamelin, Bakuretsu Hunters, Sorceror on the Rocks, Eden's Bowy, Scrapped Princess, all that stuff. They might get into the other works of staff from those thing - maybe they like Violinist, and so they look into some of Imagawa's other stuff and become a suparobo fan and watch a bunch of old stuff in that genre and get into mecha designers and stuff like that. And before you know it they have a whole pile of little-known shows and heaps of knowledge on those topics. But you and your overly specific criteria would judge them a casual because they don't care about independent animation and WMT.
Still a casual, Jinrui would be like the Arcade Fire to Jojo's Taylor Swift, to illustrate via shitty analogy.
I said experimental OR alternative, but I see your point and I'd agree. But to get back to my original point, I think the kinda person to dive deep and do that kind of research would likely have - at some point - come across the titles on that list whether or not he was looking for them. Like, I don't care for or watch experimental shorts or the like, but of course I know Kawamoto by name and could even name a few of his films without having seen or caring to see any.
>Is French anime technically even anime?
If you're going by the Japanese definition, then yes. Anything animated is technically anime. The usage in English tends to mean Japanese animation though.