Why does /a/ hate Light but love Lelouch?

>>152028142
Lelouch had people he loved.

Light was working from his bedroom from a personal sense of justice.

Lulu was a fallen noble, fighting a Macaque war with the long view of redeeming his place in the world and exacting revenge against his father's tyranny.

Absurdity of setting allows for absurdity of plot device.

>>152028142
Light is edgy 14yo psycopath who wanted to become The god.

Lulu was seeking revenge and protection for nunnally and in the end just peace for world.

Real reason is that Lelouch succeeded and Light didn't. Any other explanations are sentimental crap like "he had loved ones" and crap. Fans of one were typical fans of the other back in the day, now fans like so >>152028700
>>152028713 denigrate the other to pretend their character wasn't as much of a chuuni edgelord fantasy.

Basically both succeeded in getting fans to follow a protagonist even as they did terrible villainous things, with one getting a bad end while the other being treated more sympathetically.

Lelouch is honestly better character

>>152028142
Think they're both good characters. All honestly if they were in the same series, they'd be great foil characters to one another. Best way in showing the differences is really in their endings which I don't think I need to waste time typing that out since I think everyone knows how these two end.

>>152028848
You're pretty stupid. Even after Light got his sister traumatised and his father killed with his bullshit, he barely felt anything and moved on.

Lelouch, unlike Light, only became more saddened by the lives he destroyed as the series went on. It started with Shirley but Euphemia's tragedy damaged him to the point where he had to get C.C. to comfort him.

Light only ever really cared when someone directly challenged him.

>>152030991
No shit light barely felt anything cause he was thinking greater than just about himself. He is thinking about the whole world and the moment he started killing criminals he took on that burden.

It's not that hard to understand

>>152030558
Objectively not

Lulu is generic and just like hundreds if other MC's personality and moral wise while Light is the only type of MC in his category and for once in a decade we had a MC resolute towards his goals and didn't get washed away because muh family and friend bonds

Because light was a 'super genius' who did everything perfectly but didn't account for his hired thug screwing up.

>>152028142
Light cucked himself while Lelouch finished the endgame.

>>152031049
Except Lelouch did end up deciding to take on the whole world and even made himself out to be an evil emperor. Even then he couldn't stop himself from feeling bad, especially when it was related to his loved ones. It's what makes a character more endearing and human. Light just comes off as a heartless psycho.

>>152031339
Light isn't heartless if you count the memory loss light. He was a total bro then. It just proves giving a god like power to a kid in the real world would corrupt him

>>152028142
Because Lelouch died a virgin, just like they will.

>>152030991
>You're pretty stupid.
No, you are for unwittingly proving my point. All that you're going on about it is sentimental. Light is not written to be sympathetic. He is written as a ruthless serial killer dedicated to his aims, escalating in cruelty.

Fans kiss Lelouch because he has flamboyant and has feelings, even though it doesn't change the fact he's doing awful shit and taking/ruining lives around him. Yeah, he gets sad. So what? That doesn't stop him. He continues with his ways to the very end.

Once again, the fans overlapped. Once again, after all the fun, one got a humiliating ending while the other got his way for the most part. Hell, even Lelouch's stupid Hitler on steroid ending that brought peace is being threatened with another season. Basically a bigger waste of time and lives than Light ever took so we can have Lulu back. Hooray!

>>152028142

People don't like losers

The beginning:
>Lelouch: muh imouto, muh revenge
>Light: I will create justice for this world!
The ending:
>Lelouch: I will use my deathe to create a new world
>Light: I don't want to die! I don't want to die! I don't want to die! I don't want to die! I don't want to die!

I think the problem is Lelouch still have waifu, have friends, have sister to correct him when he was wrong. Meanwhile Light considered everyone is his tool and use DN anytime he can, so he was swallowed by his own power and become a selfish dictactor.

>>152028142
Majority of /a/ is manchilds who think it's better to have someone with cool superpower as a role model rather than a real smart guy with a weapon.

>>152031459
We're talking about why a character is more liked than the other, not which one is written better/contributed to the world more/did more wrong/etc.

Having your character care about the people around them goes a long way in making them more likable whether they go further with their plans or not.

>>152031694
>We're talking about why a character is more liked than the other
And the main reason is that one won and the other lost. Once again, they had (and still have to a great extent) the same fans and I bet you that would still be the case if one hadn't lost. The fact that one is more hard-hearted is just fluff.

>>152031404
This is true. The series says that having that power in any human's hands is not good. Light normally is more of a goody two-shoes justicefag than L. But if he has the will, he'll put all his energies into something. He drummed up the resolve to murder and so put all his energies into being a murderer. And so regardless of whatever end intended, he became a bad person. Straight-forward.

CG is more confused when it comes to the whole brainwashing thing but to be fair, it's a more flexible power.

>>15202815

lelouch remembered to at least not let good ass go to waste.

>>152028142
Because Light is not husbando material unless you like being used and abused

>>152032318
You could wind up dead being around Lelouch. Why CC wins by default.

>>152030991
Did you even read that guys first sentence? And he nailed it on the head. Light was ultimately a loser in death, cried like a bitch. Lelouch died but it accomplished his ultimate plan, and the Britannian empire he hated collapsed due to his machinations as the final Emperor.

Lulu is a winner, /a/ has no time for a bitch like Light.

>>152028142
At the end of the day, Lelouch was a better person with more noble goals than Light Yagami.
Lelouch died for his cause, Light died kicking and screaming that he didn't want to die after building his throne on countless corpses. Lelouch cared about others, Light didn't really, he saw others as either pawns to control or enemies that needed to be killed.

>>152032472
Lelouch didn't die

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Even though light fucked up he was getting shit done and was purely focused in his goal not letting wishy washy shit like friends or siblings be a route problem for him which i find likable in a character especially how intelligent he was with his plans unlike lulu who constantly bullshitted his geass and was letting fuckers like suzaku become a problem for him

>>152028142
I like both

>>152033139
Root*

>>152032597
>better person

Light doesn't build bonds and lead an entire fucking fleet to war and then says "fuck you guys I'm out" at the end of S1

He is a scumbag of a leader and don't act like he hasn't gotten loads of innocents dead.

>>152028142
I found Light to be more likeable and interesting than Lulu. He is more consistent and less annoying.

>>152033176
>and then says "fuck you guys I'm out" at the end of S1
That's not how it happened at all and you know it.

>>152031796
>And the main reason is that one won and the other lost

Everyone is giving you reasons as to why Lelouch is favored over Light which boil down to him being a far more human and sympathetic character compared to the sociopath Light was. And yet you're still hooked on this line of reasoning. I don't understand your line of logic, are you assuming you're smarter than the rest of the anons here and everyone else is too dumb to articulate their thoughts?

>>152028142
I like both, but I like Lelouch more. But then again I also like Light more than L, so my opinion is rather unpopular.

To answer your question, Lelouch was much more willing to risk his own skin along with his soldiers than Light. He got injured/captured several times because of this, and partook in what seemed like a suicide mission against Schneizel and came on top. Light would never take on those risks- for him he would have stopped when he reached the Imperial Throne and disappeared totally then and there to rule from the shadows.

>>152033299
I don't get why "human and sympathetic" means acting like a menstruating woman that's completely governed by her emotions
If anything being human means that you actually use your brain and intelligence rather than feelings

I don't think Light was ever goal-driven. To me, he was obsessed with the implications of his goal, becoming a god, an indisputable being on the face of earth, mainly because his entire life was about being first in everything he was given an opportunity. So when he was given godlike powers, his first thought was to also become number one in that department. You could also argue his "boredom" was actually the fact he was tired of having his entire life so easilly defined as being the best, which can actually be unsatisfying.
That's why he consistently acted in a way that was highly unproductive to his goals. Because he couldn't stand being disagreed and confronted. There wouldn't ever be a plot to Death Note if Light actually gave shit about his goals. He could just kill politicians and force them to stop investigating him or else the killing would go on, for example, never directly confronting L.

>>152033493
>never directly confronting L
This, the moment Light proved he was a fucking idiot that prioritized "winning" over his actual goals was when he went out of his way to make sure L knew that he had access to police information. Because of that L, narrowed down from millions of suspects (every teenager in Kanto) to a couple hundred (teenagers related to police officers), making it inevitable that he would get caught. If he hadn't done it, L never would have been able to find any clues to narrow it down further.

>>152031595
I for one like how Light's life ended. It made him seem more human, but I guess that he stopped being "cool" in everyone's eyes because of that.

>>152028142
Light is edgy and awful and my least favorite anime character. Lelouch is a meme.

>>152028142
Becase Light planning a ruthless total domination of his sense of Justice and killing anyone who bars the way without any moral restraint.

Leloch, though guilty of many crimes maintains a conscience and at the end, he believes that he must die to atone for his sins. The fact that he feel guilty and choice to become a scapegoat makes him more likable than a cold and ruthless killing machine as Light.

>>152033238
>That's not how it happened at all and you know it

That's EXACTLY what happened

He suddenly abandoned them

>>152028142
But I like both of them

>>152031065
I stopped caring about Light once he got older and started/decided to sacrifice people who did nothing wrong just to save his skin.

Like deciding to write his sister's name back when Mello kidnapped her or sacrificing Takada by making her suicide.
I never had a problem with killing those who wanted to go catch him. That was fair game but by the end it was abundantly clear that rather than 'making the world a better place' had long since been replaced by 'anything to survive ugh' as his first priority.

>>152033176
>He is a scumbag of a leader and don't act like he hasn't gotten loads of innocents dead.
>literally killed himself at the end as a repentance for everyone who died because of him
What

>>152028142
Because Light was a piece of shit who worshiped the ground he walked on.

Lelouch at least tries to be a decent person for a while. He's just kind of a dumbass in regards to some choices he makes.

>>152028142
It's easy.

Both of them decided on the path of carnage.
One of them actually repented for doing so.

Because Death Note was absolute dogshit and CG wasn't.

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I stopped liking Light after he killed her.

Not because of the murder itself, he obviously had to else get caught, but because of him smugly taking out his phone and asking her if she wanted to talk to his father now. He knew he succeeded, there was no need to gloat like that.

>>152028142
Lelouch had more justification for his actions given the context of the universe he lived in

>>152039639
Japan is always shitty. The world is always shitty. Everyone in Code Geass besides Rurushu was dumbass. Everyone in Deathnote was a dumbass except Light and L.

This is why /a/ dislikes Deathnote and Light. Because the mangaka actually had the balls to kill a well-made character (L).

>>152039348
Yeah he was a piece of shit who liked seeing other people suffer. Should have written his own name in the book.

Lelouch stayed the same character he was ever since he picked up the Zero moniker.

Light turns into a moustache-twirling Disney villain who kills his own father and laughs while doing so.

Also both series went to complete shit in Part 2.

>>152033767

It's realistic though

He was immature and dying brought it to the forefront. Granted there are others that take dying in stride but the point was to show how pathetic light was when powerless and stripped of his god complex.

>>152028142
In the end, the difference between them is on how they took a loss. Lelouch screwed up a lot, but even when at his lowest, he sought to turn the tables or drew strenght from his loved ones.

Not perfect Light. He saved himself by sacrificing and backstabbing others, never realizing that such acts were signs of sociopathy and not of the intelligence he was so proud of. Had he accepted his defeat in a noble way, he'd probably be remembered more fondly. Had he truly believed in his shit and left a spare death note for someone to continue his work in case the worst happened, he might be called a hero. But he squirmed like a bitch. He believed himself above the law. He didn't realize he was a murderer, whike Lelouch fully accepted he was one and that he wouldn't have a happy end. That's the difference.

>>152040425
>He didn't realize he was a murderer, whike Lelouch fully accepted he was one and that he wouldn't have a happy end. That's the difference.
>cue necessary sequel

>>152028713
Yet they both are killers to wrongs don't make a right

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>>152038940
>killed

Now you see why S3 is a problem? Lelouch didn't repent for shit now. So what you're trying to argue is meaningless

>>152028142
One had a simple plan

The other did not

>>152030991
lelouch called he wants you to suck him off

>>152028142
I hate Lelouch. I was very happy when he "died" in the finale.

>>152039348
>but because of him smugly taking out his phone and asking her if she wanted to talk to his father now. He knew he succeeded, there was no need to gloat like that

If you EVER had to do something that was incredibly hard against someone who was proving to be a large problem and then you finally get to expose them don't tell me you wouldn't feel happy as fuck and gloat.


Lights dream could have ended RIGHT there thanks to her, it was perfectly understandable why he was gloating, he did the same thing to L but with a grin, he would have definently gloated if they were alone.

I felt sorry for the FBI guy more than her. She baited herself and deserved to die while the fbi guy was just doing a job which he had no choice.

>>152040604

Yea fucking 10 years later

Clearly a cash in that won't end well

Doesn't matter to me since a lot of time has passed and at worst I will pretend it doesn't exist like s2 of death note. Though it is satisfying to Btfo lelouche is dead fags

>>152028142
Lelouch had Kallen.

>>152041786
>remembered as the worst person in history
>can never see his loved ones again
>forced to live for eternity knowing what his done
>probably will try to fix shit whenever the peace is jeopardized

>>152028142
Lelouch was entertaining. Light was just an autist with a plot device.

>>152040425
>He didn't realize he was a murderer, whike Lelouch fully accepted he was one and that he wouldn't have a happy end. That's the difference
Yet Lelouch was fine with shooting a cousin in the face while cried like a little bitch when a unknown father to his friend died. Somehow not understanding that people dies during his campaign

At least Light knew from day one that people where going to die

>>152042244
>Yet Lelouch was fine with shooting a cousin in the face

He wasn't. He vomited and was a mess for a while before he got over it and knew it would only get worse and that he had to see the whole thing through now that he murdered

>>152042244
>cousin
you mean half brother

>>152042244
As much as /a/ loves Clovis, he still lead the slaughtering of tons of elevens in the ghettos. And Lelouch still reacted negatively after he killed him.

>>152028142
4chan is reddit: the website

>>152041958
Didn't the FBI guy kill his boss and team? He went to void because of his job.

>>152042594
Who can tell with royal families

>>152028142
Why do you compare between them ?

>>152028142
The mangaka wrote Light with the intention of him being unlikable

>>152028142
Because Light is too realistic and asspull are more entertaining than keikaku

Light's a sociopath. Lelouche is just arrogant. You have to be young and naive to buy into Light's monologues.

That said, Light has better writing as a "smart" character though, while Lelouche's feats of intellect are almost entirely bullshit/offscreen. It's basically the difference between Patrick Jane and Cumbercunt Sherlock.

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>>152037629
>He suddenly abandoned them

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>>152043886
>He went to void because of his job.
Bad news anon everyone goes to void when they die.

>>152031459
>All that you're going on about it is sentimental. Light is not written to be sympathetic.
Yes, and that's why he's not liked as much, you faggot.

>>152042244
>Yet Lelouch was fine with shooting a cousin in the face
He wasn't fine with it, and Clovis was a terrible person.

> while cried like a little bitch when a unknown father to his friend died. Somehow not understanding that people dies during his campaign
Are you literally autistic? Do you not understand that something like that hits harder than nameless and expected casualties? Hell, he and C.C. both specifically mentioned that he had no right to stop just because of it, but that doesn't change the emotional impact.

>>152041958
>She baited herself and deserved to die

Delete yourself.

>>152033299
Yeah and the truth is no one actually cared that much. Lelouch could be just as ruthless as Light, but he had morality pets paraded onscreen so fans thought "aw, he's not so bad". Even got way more innocents killed.

Face it, if the endings were reversed and Lelouch got executed for his shit while everyone hated his guts instead of being bailed out by plot conveniences, the tune sung would be different.

>>152041761
This is a thread about why people like them, not about how one is in the "right." People like Lelouch because he's not edgy, and actually has compassion for people. Even some of those who opposed him like Suzaku.

>>152049482
>he had morality pets paraded onscreen
>>152049482
>if the endings were reversed
These are two separate things, though.

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>>152040425
Lelouch screwed up a lot and got bailed out a lot. If Light got outsmarted, it brought him closer to death. When he lost, he died. Lelouch got captured and got a goddamn reset. Big difference.

And this is all silly. Saving oneself while sacrificing and backstabbing others (things Lelouch did himself btw) would be natural for a criminal. Using your intelligence for bad (being 'sociopath') is also. There will be no nobility in his death, he'll either be executed or have his name written in the death note. All that noble chuuni nonsense of CG isn't in DN; it straight up shows how it's going to be for anyone who thinks they have a right to commit vicious crimes, no matter what they intend. Using the killing book isn't right, period.
>He believed himself above the law.
So did Lelouch. He was a vigilante like Light, a terrorist at that.
>He didn't realize he was a murderer
Yes he did. He thought he was justified.
>Lelouch fully accepted he was one and that he wouldn't have a happy end.
Only after he had gone too far. He got to choose his end. Light's chosen end was standing at the top of the world. No other way.

>>152049482
Also, Lelouch literally did get killed for his shit while everyone hated his guts.

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>>152050175
>People like Lelouch because he's not edgy
Don't kid yourself, the edge was and forever is part of his appeal.

>>152050229
>it straight up shows how it's going to be for anyone who thinks they have a right to commit vicious crimes, no matter what they intend
And I mean how they are as a person, not their fate. They're going to be a terrible human being.

>>152050301
>>152050175
Lelouch had edge, but one of the things that I think people liked was that he was never as edgy-and-sophisticated as he wanted to be or to believe he was, and no one except Diethard really treated him that way.

>>152028142
Light was selfish. Lelouch was doing it for humanity.

>>152028142
Because Light is just edge

>>152050301
Edge is not the whole of Lelouch's character though and he preferred to kill himself so others would have a good life instead of becoming the eternal god emperor of the world to try and create a better world like Light would have done

>>152050978
Light was very clearly a villain. He was "doing it for humanity" but that meant having people worship and fear him as a shadowy god of death and judgement and generally precipitating a reign of terror on the world.

He's basically the villain with the "but I wanted to help people" reason for existing.

Also he posed as a good guy.

Lelouch was willing to die if it meant helping people. He posed as a bad guy for the greater good.

>>152050248
Yeah, you got me there. If Lelouch got executed after the end of S1 where he looked his worst, where people from friends like Suzaku to his army had reason to dislike him, the tune would be different. That wasn't going to happen of course but a humiliating ending can't be ignored.

>>152050301
>>152050902
This is true. Then let me fix that to him being not AS edgy as Light who is the literal definition of a mid 2000's teenage edgelord.

>>152051164
It would be different, for sure, but I'd argue it would still have been very different from Light's end. Lelouch abandoning his allies, and even the sakuradite threat, was ultimately because he wanted to save Nunnally, and he showed both trust of and concern for C.C. even while on the island. That's very different from Light's finale, and more generally, Light just didn't have that sort of dynamic to him. They could both be ruthless, but their motivations for and temperament regarding it were different, and that sets them apart more than the fact that one of them failed and the other didn't. Seriously, can you imagine Light caring about the importance of someone choosing their own partner over an arranged marriage, let alone caring because some random classmate affirmed its importance?

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>>152050978
Both were selfish and had altruistic ends. Lelouch's more selfish concerns often conflicted with his altruistic ends many times. Similarly Light's ego also got in the way, but you could say it was naturally because his plot was egotistical to start with and the character could only go downhill.
>he preferred to kill himself so others would have a good life
The hilarious implication of this is Lelouch would only make people suffer by living so dying was the best thing he could do for others. Kudos to Lelou for doing the right thing.

The difference is it was always a means to Lelouch while it was the end for Light.
>>152050902
>>152051342
I agree with this. Looking back, all the evil and edge is amusing. I think that the purpose for both characters. Shit, Sasuke looks just plain hammy, but I don't know if it's intentional.

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>>152051819
Okay I see your point but you gotta admit the endings are like light and day. Would you like Light if he did it for his qt3.14 imouto? She's even cuter than Nunnally.

>>152052464
It would have been cool if he fucked her and dropped his edge shit for a few episodes.

>>152028142
Because Light was a villain and Lelouch was a hero.

>>152052506
Even Light knows incest is worse than murder.

>>152052614
At least people on /a/ would have liked him more.

I recently rewatched both, and what I noticed was that Lelouch had far more nuances to his character than Light did. Light switched from anti-hero to villain with sociopathic tendencies far too quickly.

>>152052464
Problem is I can't imagine Light doing that ever. That's how unlikable he is.

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>>152028142
Killed Carlin

>>152052464
>the endings are like light and day
Yes, because the characters are different. It's not that people like whoever gets a happier/better end , it's that one of them was sympathetic and thus got a bittersweet ending, while the other was unsympathetic and thus got a bad end.

> Would you like Light if he did it for his qt3.14 imouto?
If Light had done it for his imouto (and been seriously concerned at the prospect that he was misguided about that), and also legitimately cared for Misa, and been broken up about some of the people he killed, etc., etc., then yes, but that would make him an entirely different character.

>>152052891
>Light and Yami
>Yami = Dark
>George Carlin is lightness and darkness
>George Carlin is God
I've solved the riddle!

>>152028142
Lelouch was what Light would be if the writers pussied out at every opportunity to make him questionable
>Oh his entire rebellion is saved just because of an accident with Euphemia involving his geass which is in no way his fault
>Oh that loyal but unstable Rolo he wanted to kill for a good chunk of S2? Lelouch never gets to do it and still feels sad when Rolo dies because he actually liked him

Never do they let him do something that would make us doubt if he's in the right.

>>152052848
He killed a shitload of people before Ryuk even showed up. Light is apparently a freak about anything he puts his mind to. He's like if a usual shonen hero character put all that determination into doing anything (particularly evil like murder, threats, deceptions, manipulation) for the sake of their aims.

He's technically still an antihero simply for being an unheroic protagonist. That's the definition I prefer though.
>>152052919
>If Light had done it for his imouto (and been seriously concerned at the prospect that he was misguided about that), and also legitimately cared for Misa, and been broken up about some of the people he killed, etc., etc., then yes, but that would make him an entirely different character.
He'd be closer to his character without the death note. Boring. Light's feelings toward his own family are a bit ambiguous. They are secondary to his plan but I think he shows tiny hints of sentimental feeling when it comes to them. It could be illusory but I think he truly respected his father and he was a little sad during his death scene. After his father's death, he was perfectly fine with killing everyone.

>>152053759
> saved
He didn't want it to be saved, he was literally giving in.

>Rolo
Killing Rolo would absolutely not have made me doubt he was in the right, the guy deserved it. He earnestly tried to kill Rolo several times, anyway, so I'm not really sure how succeeding would have made us doubt him any more than we already did/didn't.

>>152053951
>He didn't want it to be saved, he was literally giving in.
You know damn well the show's writers wouldn't allow it to end like that, they could have done it a dozen ways other than an accident but they chose that one because it kept Lelouch clean.

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>>152028142
Literally every character on this pic are smarter than them

>>152053759
Perhaps you fell asleep when Lelouch did numerous things during Code Geass both long before and right after both points which still qualify as questionable.

Light was just cartoonishly evil once he declared to be the God of the New World.

>>152053984
> You know damn well the show's writers wouldn't allow it to end like that
Obviously fucking not, but that doesn't mean him killing her (which is what you seem to be getting at) was ever on the table. His plan going in wasn't even to kill her, he was going to have her shoot him. And while it was poorly done, I don't think the aim was to absolve him of all guilt - he certainly doesn't feel that way, and he doesn't try to explain it away like that to anyone. It was a consequence of his own actions both in starting a revolution and in using the Geass, they just failed to position it that way as effectively as they probably hoped.

>>152054176
>Pic has them
You can't fool me with your mind games.

>>152053984
He still made the very unclean decision to shoot the girl and drag her name through the mud.

>>152054176
Light is in that picture as well.

>>152054265
Oh, Lelouch is as well. Didn't recognize him immediately.

>>152054262
At that point there was nothing else that could be done, she'd keep trying to kill all japanese until she either succeeded or died.

>>152028142
Because Light uses his gay as fuck geass to do stuff while Lelouch is hard core and uses his death book to kill people.

>>152053951
Anon's point is that Lelouch isn't allowed to do anything totally reprehensible to the audience. The Euphienator thing was an accident and he made the most of it. Shirley's death was also an accident, but as much one as you not keeping your rabid dog on a leash and it winds up mauling someone. Lelouch then changes plans and commits a massacre out of anger, but that can be apologized for because geass is dangerous and the cult was making child soldiers like Rolo.

>>152054236
>>152054265
Don't count them retards

>>152054218
Light wasn't cartoony. He had an "I'm so devilish" flare with the evil smirks and laughs and "I'm taking over the world", but he was cold and methodical most of the time. There is nothing cartoony about his murders of the FBI agent and his fiancee.

>>152054373
> Lelouch isn't allowed to do anything totally reprehensible to the audience
Yes, and I'm disputing that, specifically the "allowed to" part. He doesn't do anything totally reprehensible, but it's natural.

> The Euphienator thing was an accident and he made the most of it
As I just said, he wasn't going to kill Euphemia in the first place. He liked her, and it wouldn't have made sense as a plan, anyway (he would just have become the villain and everyone would have reviled the Black Knights).

> Shirley's death was also an accident, but as much one as you not keeping your rabid dog on a leash and it winds up mauling someone.
Lelouch didn't realize how dangerous Rolo was. This is clear from the fact that he trusted Rolo to bring him Nunnally during the second battle, which he absolutely fucking would not have done if he had any suspicions like that. I don't know why this is even being brought up, Lelouch would just have re-Geassed Shirley in that situation, not killed her.

> Lelouch then changes plans and commits a massacre out of anger, but that can be apologized for because geass is dangerous and the cult was making child soldiers like Rolo.
They're an organization that's been established as dangerous and evil well before this, and even so, multiple characters (including CC, who knows the whole story) seem uncomfortable with the massacre. It's not like he went and slaughtered random people who happened to turn out to be doing bad things, and everyone hailed him as a hero for it.

Also Lelouch's gimmick is that he acts like a cartoon villain. His getup, his speechs, the way he talks, the smirks, the laughs, the tactics, "haha, you fell into my trap [pushes button]." Even when he's just "pretending", he's a very hammy character.

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>>152048755
>death is equal
was pic related right?

>>152054779
Yes

>>152052118
What the fuck anon literally none of his reasons for liberating area 11 were selfish. From the get go his main motivation was the happiness of his sister, not himself.

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>>152028142
1. Lelouch is an anti-hero. Light was a villain, despite being a protagonist.

2. Lelouch always had good intentions, no matter how dirty his hands got.

3. Lelouch loved h is sister more than anything else. Light loved only himself.

4. Lelouch is a winner. He won and got everything he wanted in the end. Light is a loser who lost to a shota who's the worst manga character in a decade.

5. Light is asexual; Lelouch clearly likes girls.

>>152028142
/a/ hates light? Guess you ain't that useless after all.

>>152054767
>He doesn't do anything totally reprehensible, but it's natural.
Yeah and that is anon's point. He's a Light not allowed to do anything totally reprehensible. Even more 'good' (or less evil) characters can do things people think are unwarranted, but practically all Lelouch's actions can be defended.
>As I just said, he wasn't going to kill Euphemia in the first place.
No but he went there intending to ruin her plans. Ironically, the end was similar, even if not exactly as he had intended.
>Lelouch didn't realize how dangerous Rolo was.
Still his fault, but the fans would rather hate Rolo than Lelouch for it because it was unintended. It is brought up to reinforce the next part.
>even so, multiple characters (including CC, who knows the whole story) seem uncomfortable with the massacre
Even so, it can be apologized for by the audience. Shit, people even hate the BKs for turning on him even after he had done things like that. In the eyes of the AUDIENCE, Lelouch doesn't do anything totally reprehensible. The opposite to Light, who clearly does some unwarranted things.

>>152054767
He didn't want to kill euphie but at the same time he didn't want her plans to work. He's back handed comment was something he knew euphie would never agree to but at the same time give him all the leverage he needed

>>152054508
>There is nothing cartoony about his murders of the FBI agent and his fiancee.
Except for the fact that this, in fact, happened in a cartoon.

>>152054867
>From the get go his main motivation was the happiness of his sister
He put his sister before everything else, even abandoning the Japs in the S1 finale. That was selfish. Arguably, pursuing what he thought best for her without considering her opinion was selfish as well. Arguably.

>>152055162
>Yeah and that is anon's point. He's a Light not allowed to do anything totally reprehensible.
But I'm saying it's not about the writers "not allowing him" to do it - which would be artificial and a legitimate criticism - but about him simply not doing it because it's not in his character, which is a really silly thing to criticize. The original anon's claim was that the writers "pussied out" of it, and I don't buy that.

>No but he went there intending to ruin her plans.
Yes, and there's hardly anything unforgivable about that.

> Still his fault
Not in any relevant moral sense.

> Even so, it can be apologized for by the audience.
Yes, as I thought I made clear, I'm not claiming he does anything outright unforgivable. But it is certainly a questionable decision, driven by emotion, and I don't see any evidence there that they were copping out of some more despicable thing he should have done. That's simply the degree of questionable that his character is - he's not an outright evil faggot like Light is/becomes, and there's no reason he needs to be.

>>152028142
Light was just edge, Lelouch kept his heart.

>>152055162
>Still his fault, but the fans would rather hate Rolo than Lelouch for it because it was unintended
Well, no shit. If you murder someone, you are the one who gets hated, not your friend who failed to recognize that you were going to murder someone.

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Never forget

>>152055476
What do you mean "not in his character"? What is offensive about having the character to have him do -one- thing that can't be justified, defended, or apologized for? Especially a character that is meant to be somewhat villainous like Lelouch?
>Yes, and there's hardly anything unforgivable about that.
So? He went there to fuck her over. And when he wound up doing something far worse, it was just an accident.
>Not in any relevant moral sense.
I'd say he bears some responsibility for the people he's associating with/manipulating. So to you >>152055591, Rolo was not a friend. He was Lelouch's dog. Lelouch tried to make use of him knowing good and well he was dangerous and it bit him in the ass. But it's all thrown on Rolo and even that character ultimately gets redeemed.

Point is, Lelouch is kept within the zone of sympathy. Even his most reprehensible acts are defensible. He doesn't have to be outright evil but do one thing unsympathetic or indefensible and he never truly does.

>>152056009
>even that character ultimately gets redeemed
By saving Lelouch.

>>152056009
>What do you mean "not in his character"?
He wasn't inclined to do anything completely unforgivable. You're listing situations where he didn't do anything like that, but in none of them was he ever planning or intending to do something more horrible than what he did (except killing Rolo, which he attempted but failed at). There's no unnatural writer intervention, he just doesn't do horrible things because he has no desire to do them, they're never on the table.

>What is offensive about having the character to have him do -one- thing that can't be justified, defended, or apologized for?
I'm not the one complaining, you are. You're complaining that he didn't do that, and I'm saying there's no reason he needed to.

> So? He went there to fuck her over.
He went there to do something that wasn't unforgivable, and he didn't do anything unforgivable. So where's the "pussying out"?

>I'd say he bears some responsibility for the people he's associating with/manipulating.
Not in the context of this conversation. There's nothing unforgivable about misjudging someone, which is what happened, as I already established.
> Lelouch tried to make use of him knowing good and well he was dangerous and it bit him in the ass. But it's all thrown on Rolo and even that character ultimately gets redeemed.
Again, he didn't understand how dangerous he was. Anyway, it's not "thrown on Rolo," it's just his fault, no matter how that scene had played out. You are complaining that the show puts the blame on the killer.

> He doesn't have to be outright evil but do one thing unsympathetic or indefensible
He does plenty of questionable things - slaughtering the Geass guys, blowing up that submarine, abandoning his allies in the first battle of Tokyo, etc. - and again, I don't think there's any reason (and you certainly haven't even tried to provide one) that he has to do something completely indefensible.

Geass just isn't the dark show you want it to be, that's not a criticism.

>>152056751
>He wasn't inclined to do anything completely unforgivable.
Even as he's given to doing 'questionable' things. Even when he's emotional.

Anon's point stands: Lelouch is kept by the writers in a zone of sympathy. Even as he does evil for whatever reason, the audience is kept squarely on his side. The writers were not willing to compromise that even a little bit, which is what the anon calls "pussying out". And for the worst he's thing, well, as you say keep saying, not unforgivable. Even mass murder.

>>152057505
*he's done
>Geass just isn't the dark show you want it to be
Yeah, murders, massacres, forced suicides aren't very dark. You're right, even that was just part of the fun. "Accidentally" brainwash your little sister into a genocidal maniac? Comedy gold.

>>152054176
>no L-Elf

>>152057505
>Even as he's given to doing 'questionable' things.
Yes, nothing weird about that. His personal standards are looser than everyone would easily accept, but not so loose that they'd be completely unacceptable.

> Even when he's emotional.
Again, nothing weird about that. He gets emotional and goes after people who've been doing bad things that harmed him, but whom he otherwise would have kept alive. He doesn't get emotional and go after random innocents. This is completely in line with the normal behavior of many humans.

>Anon's point stands: Lelouch is kept by the writers in a zone of sympathy
You've given no reason why that's bad or why he should have been less sympathetic, though.

> The writers were not willing to compromise that even a little bit, which is what the anon calls "pussying out".
You've given no examples of how they pussied out, though. Merely examples of them not having him do bad things, but none of them pussying out of having him do bad things.

>>152057601
You want it to be a show where the protagonist does unforgivable and totally unsympathetic things and the audience isn't supposed to root for him. It's not that kind of show, and Lelouch is not that character. He's someone who's not perfect but that we still root for, while Light is someone we root against. It's apples and oranges.