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Ikuhara Kunihiko

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>Ikuhara has stated that he likes anime with yuri elements because he feels that when a female character is given a male love interest, the relationship between them tends to overwhelm the other elements of the show.
What did he mean by this?
>>
he fetishizes lesbians
>>
>>151742276
The audience expects different things out of a heterosexual relationship, making it difficult to develop one subtly or gradually in the background without upsetting your viewers.

Yuri is subject to a different set of expectations that allows it to be used in less intrusive ways without upsetting its audience.

It's difficult to have a show deliver a heterosexual romance without the show itself being of the romance genre or else upsetting many of its fans

It's very easy to insert yuri into any show without really changing the show at all.
>>
Sounds like the sick bastard is into forbidden love. Hopefully he comes to his senses and realizes that the love between an onii-chan and his imouto is the best.
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>>151742440
That was quick.

/thread
>>
>>151742276
>>151742440
I get where he's coming from but the statement is outright bullshit in today's culture. And ironically enough it's yuri manga/anime that are responsible for this. There are absolutely expectations for female/female pairs to get together and explicit interest in romantic relationships between the other. Yuri elements have become too obvious in the public consciousness and both its fans and detractors have proven time and again that they will force a show into debates of these relationships.
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>>151742276
Muh fetish is better.
>>
>>151742535
The only one expecting explicit shit is the western fandom. I personally don't read or watch /u/ for romance because romance is almost certainly going to lead to a rehashed drama arc.
Subtext is love subtext is life
t. retired /u/nicorn
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>>151742654
The Japanese fans I've seen on twitter may not be quite as vocal or even repulsive as western fandom but there are definitely expectations in a great deal of them.
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>>151742714
That's mostly because almost every time they did pure yuri romance the shows were trash/commercial failures. It's the biggest conundrum of a fandom where things are best left to the imagination.
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>>151742276
But, his magnum opus (Penguin Drum) was /het/ as fuck?
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>>151742440
This is very true. If two girls in a show act kinda lovey dovey, it's just cute, if a guy and girl do it's a big deal.
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>Eupho threads
Yeah, he's right.
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>>151742276
>it's an Ikuhara thread that isn't about him announcing a new anime

I don't care.
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>>151742974
>MPD better than SKU, R film or S
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>>151742535
>expectations for female/female pairs to get together
Maybe you should get the fuck off tumblr for once. The industry certainly isn't pointing to the direction where it needs to insert yuri in every fucking show yet.
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>>151742276
That means het love is stronger than yuri?
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>>151744225
Acknowledging that there are people who want that kind of thing isn't the same as admitting that it's literally everywhere? How about you calm the fuck down.
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>>151744362
But those people don't buy shit when it comes out. Even Fujo understand they need to support their hobby.
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>>151742276
For F/F and M/M pairs, it's two people who happen to click through their specific character traits and relationship dynamic. For M/F pairs, it's two people forced into their gender roles, who are obligated to click by the fact that they're a man and a woman.

I truly feel bad for hetfags, they're so willing to eat up whatever bland shit they're given instead of shipping (whether it's canon or not) the couples with the most chemistry.
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>>151742276
Perfectly explain the state of Yahari right now
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>>151744562
And you just realizing that there are after all loads of people who like yuri when it's been that way for years now doesn't make Ikuhara's statement 'outright bullshit' when there's no visible change or need yet for the industry to insert yuri in every show just to pander to audiences, is what I mean.

'Absolute expectations' my ass.
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>>151744734
They already had attempt to see if there was a market for yuri show and it was a failure.
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>>151745278
What do you mean? Utena was a massive success
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>>151745777
>Utena
>Having to go back TWO decades to find a commercial success
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>>151744648
As expected, yurifags like yourself are mentally ill.
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>>151745924
Yeah. A success back from the days where homosexuality is unheard off in Japanese media and Class-O dormant

Your point?
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>>151742276
I also read his wikipedia page.
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>>151745993
>Class-O dormant
I meant Class S is dormant

Damn broken keyboad
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>>151745993
My point is that you had to go back 20 years to find a commercial success when there's plenty of failure in between -especially in an industry that almost totally renew itself every four or five years-. Claiming that there wasn't homosexuality in japanese media in 1997 is a lie. Sailor moon and oniisama e predate Utena
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>>151746218
Sure. And my point is that if a successful yuri market existed back in the days where lesbians are deemed a fantasy, then there is certainly an even bigger yuri market now
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>>151746218
Madoka is a recent example.

>inb4 it's under-the-radar
With the exception of the SKU film and the SM manga, it's pretty under-the-radar in those franchises. Can't speak to oniisama e, because I haven't bothered watching it yet.
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>>151746326
Oniisama e had a legit lesbian love triangle.
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>>151746326
But Madoka did well not because of the Homura/Madoka relationship but because it was a more than decent magical girl show. It's the same with Utena and that's glossing over the fact that Utena is pretty much a male (female) for the majority of it -Not that it matter-. What you need to understand is that yuri alone doesn't sell a show, it never did and never will.
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>>151746410
It's also from the 1970s and largely forgotten (at least, compared to SM/SKU/etc)
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>>151746443
I never argued that SKU/SM's selling point (I'm not the anon you were originally replying to). But there's certainly an argument that a lack of traditional/het romantic subplot allowed the central plot to be more involved, which is the core of Ikuhara's argument.
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>>151742276
>Male and female work together/made partners
yeah these guys are probably gonna fall in love to each other by the end.
>Male/Female work together/partners of the same sex
eh pretty close friends... or maybe something else?
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>>151746443
>What you need to understand is that yuri alone doesn't sell a show, it never did and never will
Yuru Yuri
Marimite
Mai Hime
Citrus
Kin-iro Mosaic
GochiUsa
NTR Trap

Go fuck youself
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>>151742276
I'd rather have Yuri than autistic bland male MC with a a girl who's out of his league as his love interest.
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>>151746443
Hibike Euphonium

Most people would have gotten bored and probably dropped it off early on... if there wasn't the whole question regarding whether Kumiko and Reina were gay.
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>>151746536
Don't sexualize the usagis.
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Yuri market is new. Apparently it will stuck just like het
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>>151746536
>sell well
>>
>Yuru Yuri
Not centered on yuri even if it does show up

>Marimite
Sei alone didn't sell the show, I'm pretty sure it also fail modern /u/ standards

>Mai Hime
Yuri wasn't part of the show for a good part of it and I'm pretty sure Mai was pinning for Yuuichi

>Citrus
I don't follow it I'm not going to comment

>Kin-iro Mosaic
>GochiUsa
Remember, if it has two girl withing spitting distance, it's yuri, like non non biyori, precure and love live

>NTR Trap
Didn't follow don't know how it did in sale, no comment
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>>151746971
Gee, what's your threshold? 20k?
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>>151746536

If you seriously thinking that Mai Hime only sold on "yuri alone" then you are retarded.
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>>151747164
Yeah, my bad. I just typed out the first titles that I remembered but whatever
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>>151743956
MPD is far superior to the S or R films and just barely better than SKU. SKU is a masterpiece but MPD is a transcendent work of genius.
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>>151744734
Oh, you're actually an ESL. Wow, I know the term gets bandied around a lot here but I didn't expect one to respond to me, or that I took this long to figure it out.

See, when I said 'there are absolutely expectations' what I meant is that there are definitely expectations (regardless of quantity) in existence, not that all expectations are absolute or whatever dumbfuck way you read that sentence. Absolute as in, those expectations do in fact exist. Not absolute as in everybody ever has them.
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I miss Ikuhara shows. Whenever one airs, threads are always fun.
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>>151747721
This. Penguindrum threads were the most fun I had on /a/ with the exception of endless eight airing.
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>>151742440
>It's very easy to insert yuri into any show without really changing the show at all.
Haven you even watched shows airing this season?
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>>151746529
>eh pretty close friends... or maybe something else?
More like
>Threads shitposted into oblivion by delusional shippers

/u/&/y/fags, not even once.
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>>151747432
>There are absolutely expectations for female/female pairs to get together
Ok sure if that's what you mean, there has been for a long time now. This just proves you're just realizing this and was hasty enough to put out that stupid generalization.

>Yuri elements have become too obvious in the public consciousness
You mean newfags are just learning now what yuri is and are just learning to appreciate it. Doesn't mean there's a yuri 'revolution' happening now that shows a significant shift of viewer expectations on the concept of yuri. This is why Ikuhara still makes some sense with what he said.

>and both its fans and detractors have proven time and again that they will force a show into debates of these relationships.
Like I said get the fuck off tumblr for once. New yurifags just want more of the same thing and are noisy enough about it.

See however you spin it your opinion is just stupid as always.
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>>151742276
Funny thing is, this is actually true. I'm hardly a shipperfag but it often happens that when I get invested in a particular couple I ofter kind of black out the other elements of the show.
I'm not sure how it's any different if the couple you're invested in happens to be /u/ though.
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>>151742440
>It's difficult to have a show deliver a heterosexual romance without the show itself being of the romance genre or else upsetting many of its fans
He could try harder.
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>>151748430
Fuck you asshole
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He's an SJW
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>>151749858
Holy fuck /pol/tards are retarded.
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>>151742276
Funny, because I thought the yuri elements of yuri bear overwhelmed the other elements of the show
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Was rewatching Oniisama e recently but it's more Class S. The only one I'd say that could have been gay was Rei but not like you see what could have happend with her. ;_;
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>>151750987
Yuri Kuma is an anomaly when compared to Ikuhara's other works, both in terms of content and quality.

I'm don't know how he fucked it up so bad.
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>>151743090
Are we in the 90's? Currently Yuri is barely any different and feels shoehorned in every show. It also has lost all subtlety, anytime two girls act remotely friendly (or even remotely antagonistic) to each other a slew of yurifags immediately jump to conclusions, draw fanart and burn at the stake anyone not believing they're furiously scissoring each other in private.

Yuri is distracting as hell nowadays.
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>>151750987
Well when the title is literally Yuri Bear Storm you could hardly expect the yuri to be subtle there.

>>151751186
That's the fault of the fucking yurifags then and not the show. Your fault for letting them affect your perception of yuri in the show.
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>>151742440
>>151743090
You two and Ikuhara are ridiculous, as >>151747748 said, not just confirmed yuri relationship will literally have all the attention of the audience, but mere possibility of yuri pairing would be biggest point of discussion.

Shuumatsu no Izetta was about two heterosexual girls who might have liked to get too cozy with each other, but every thread was "I'LL BE TAKING YOUR PRINCESS xD"

Every Flip Flappers thread is "Cockona" "Papicock" with lip smacking. And Mobile Suit Gundam Iron Blooded Orphans might as well be called Iron Blooded Homos, because apparently little boys just want to fuck each other.
>>
Test
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>>151751155
>content
The same as his other shows. Ikuhara always tells the same story, replacing coffins with cages or boxes and swords of hatred with child broilers or invisible storms changes nothing.
>quality
It was about the same as PD, meaning, not even close to Utena but still great.
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>>151751527
MPD was so much better than YKA that I can't even imagine how you could perceive them as equal. I personally find MPD to be a more moving work than SKU, but Utena really is an amazing and elegant work.
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>>151751384
Just because you only see people talk about/make fun of the yuri aspect of the show doesn't make the other elements or ideas the show offers all moot.

Really it's starting to sound like you're all just assblasted about how rabid the yurifags react to shows that clearly has more to offer besides yuri but you just quickly dismiss them.
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>>151748378
I never said any of those things or claimed that there was a yuri revolution occurring. But any kind of genre or subject that grows an audience will have an increasingly wide range of opinions on a topic. And there is definitely more of an audience now than there was a decade ago, or even two decades ago. You're the one generalizing here by claiming that your opinion is the stance that everyone naturally approaches after they stop being new. People are bound to want different things and expect different things after they have enough experience with the subject matter.

And no, I don't use tumblr and you can't use that site as a punctuation and boogieman for views that differ from your own. I'm not on reddit either. I don't give a shit about yuri one way or the other and I doubt I ever will but Ikuhara has a history of making extremely divisive statements like this that I never agree with, even though I like his shows outside of them.
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>>151751595
MPD has severe pacing problems, so blatant that it's safe to assume it was initially intended to be 3 cours.
YKA would have been better with more episodes as well, but it managed the time it had better than PD with its messy second cour.
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>>151742276
that yuri is shallow
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>>151751702
I don't agree that it was paced improperly, I think what you might attribute to pacing issues actually arose from the change in tone that resulted from the production changing due to the Fukushima disaster. I would have loved for MPD to have been 3 cour, I would have enjoyed more time with those characters in that world.
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>>151746443
prince does not equal male.
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>>151742276
>What did he mean by this?

That he was describing Hibike! Euphonium.
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>>151751693
>I don't give a shit about yuri
>even though I like his shows

That must mean you liked his shows because of the other things that the yuri didn't overwhelm at all. Thanks for proving Ikuhara right.
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>>151751810
No, the pacing is definitely uneven. There's no excuse for rushing through so many plot points and characterizations in the second half after dedicating so much time to the Ringo shenanigans at the beginning.
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>>151742276
But how does he feel about Yaoi?
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>>151742276
>this whole statement
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>>151742276
>>151742440
I don't know. Majo no Takkyubin was Kiki's coming of age story and it remained so even after the mentions of her getting a boyfriend. Even better, I think that her getting involved with the guy who became her bf actually did a service to the story by having her more in contact with other people and helped her become a part of the city.
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>>151752173
I agree that the pacing accelerates, but I considered that a directorial decision and not a mistake. YMMV
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>>151751693
You actually generalized that more audience=more yuri fans=more demand for yuri=yuri cannot be subtle anymore now, which was plainly wrong.
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>>151752124
I mean, I didn't like Yuri Kuma Arashi. The yuri elements in that were definitely overbearing for me. And I don't disagree with the statement in its entirety, I just think it's an incredibly broad statement to make and not wholly tenable as a result.
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>>151753014
Because you can actually dial down yuri or play it straight up in shows, which is what he did with yuri kuma. It's even in the title, obviously the yuri wouldn't be subtle at all.
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>>151752941
I didn't actually say that yuri couldn't be subtle anymore. I said that people who don't want subtle yuri undertones anymore exist at the same time as people who do. And the existence of one group doesn't preclude the existence of the other.
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>>151742276
Considering Ikuhara is a major yurifag he probably considers yuri better than heterosexual romance
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>>151753137
You actually said it's 'outright bullshit in today's culture', holy fuck.
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>>151746484
Uhh. Oniisama e is from 1991 and is a renowned classic in Japan
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>>151753014
>overbearing
CARLOS
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>>151753930
It was overshadowed by ROV, so while it's definitely liked, it's not exactly renowned.
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>>151742440
Are japanise anime fans really such crybabies?
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>>151755171
Considering stuff like the Kannagi shit? (where fans uploaded pictures of them burning their Kannagi stuff because the main girl was revealed to have had a previous relationship before meeting the MC) Yes
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>>151742440
Of course, this is bullshit because yurifags.
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>>151746305
>Love Live is yuri guys
>it's just like Utena
ugh
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>>151746326
Madoka only had one lesbian. And it didn't do well because of that.
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>>151755412
Who are a minority compared to hetfags
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>>151742276
Yuri is easier to write.
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>>151742276
Is this man legitimately homo or it's just a persona
>>
Does this apply to yaoi?
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>>151742276
He's a yuri fag.
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>>151755571
He's fabulous max
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>>151752309
Anno has one more chance to win over Iku-chan. If 3.0+1.0 doesn't do it, nothing will.
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>>151755571
He sucked Anno's dick once, but he was apparently just being ironic
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>>151742276
http://archive.is/pVSPk
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>>151744648
>implying people ships the first thing the show throws at them
If things were as ideal as you describe then shipperfags wouldn't be upset every time their favorite girl doesn't win.
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>>151746443
And isn't that Ikuhara's point? That yuri can exist naturally within a show so that it helps in showing the characters' relationships and struggles, while het would make the show about nothing more than the romance.
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>>151757020
No, it's his opinion not a fact. It's hard to put in word but it all boil down to how relationship between close friends of same and different sex is seen by the director. Madoka would likely have still been great if Homura or Madoka happened to be male, magical girl show convention be damned. The big problem is that pure romantic series are shit in general, no matter the couple. It's because of how you need to structure the story to handle a 12 episodes season without blowing your load early and without repetition.
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>>151742276
Ikuhara should be more honest with himself and everyone else. He's obviously a huge yurifag, and there's nothing wrong with that.
>>
Case in point: there are other problems with the ending but because she married someone else, people got insanely mad and only focused on the so called "cucking".
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>>151751186
>Currently Yuri is barely any different
>feels shoehorned in every show
>It has lost all subtlety
>yurifags immediately jump to conclusions
>Yuri is distracting as hell nowadays.
Which is it?
Make your fucking mind up!
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>>151755171
They're even bigger crybabies.
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>>151742276
It means no one with a brain will take a gay relationship seriously therefore they will concentrate on the other elements.
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>>151742440
All that being true would make anime watchers mouthbreathers incapable of critical reasoning.
Go figure.
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>the amount of SJW tumblr language in this thread
Just holy fucking shit.
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>>151762136
Where?
>>
>show friendship
>EMERGHERD IT IS LOVE GUYS
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>>151760461
All those points seem to agree with each other.
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>>151742481
Bullshit. Love between an Onee-chan and her imouto is the best.
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