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Who was less wrong than the other?

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Who was less wrong than the other?
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>>151660454
The one who didn't kill himself.
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>>151660728
So Lelouch?
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>>151660454
>Shitskin fag vs White master race
>>
>>151660454
They were both wrong they didn't fuck.
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>>151660454
SUSAK
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>>151662509
RURUSHU
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>>151662192
>white guy has darker hair than the japanese guy

what did they mean by this?
>>
>>151663115
Lelouch's mom was a migrant whore.
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>>151663234
suzaku's*
>>
the brown haired one he was a proper fgt
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Both of them believed the ends justified the means. The difference is that Lelouch acknowledged he was committing evil, while Shitzaku went full moralfag even though his operating within an evil system still perpetuates evil.
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Post Gino.
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>>151666685
>>
>>151666598
Ironically suzaku also killed more people when he obliterated pendragon
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>>151666808
>pendragon
you mean tokyo.
still it was only partly his fault.
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>>151660454
The point of Suzaku's character was his hypocrisy, suffering, and failures, not whether he was right or not(he wasn't, his whole stance has been null from the beginning because of his murder of his father in a sense).
He's sort of a failed Arthurian knight, and in the end, it is Lelouch's methods through which they fix the world.
Suzaku alone never would've succeeded in changing Britannia through the proper methods. Even just getting some degree of Japan back would've been questionable.
Speculating on what-ifs of Suzaku and Lelouch Lamparogue working together is too baseless.
Also, you know, if not for Lelouch, Charles would've probably succeeded in destroying human individuality.
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>>151666598
>>151666808
>>151667015
Suzakurager is back and he's still spouting garbage
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>>151667163
Calm your fee-fees anon, I actually quite enjoyed Suzaku as a character, it's just a fact that in the end Lelouch was the one whose philosophy was ultimately acknowledged by the series.
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>>151667015
Suzaku is a bizarre mix of idealist and realist; he kills his own father to try and save people, spends years in a psychological cage trying to convince himself that it was the right thing to do. Finally sees a light at the end of the tunnel in Euphie's naive ideals, then Lelouch comes along like Card Crush and smashes it to pieces. Suzaku then he does a complete 180 and turns into a complete badass who does whatever the fuck needs to be done, even working with his hated enemy and acting like his loyal servant in public.
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>>151666598
>The difference is that Lelouch acknowledged he was committing evil,
That doesn't make him right though in fact if you were smart you'll be more hinged to believe anything Lelouch did was right and it took the show to say this yet retards are still going off about it.
>while Shitzaku went full moralfag
So you didn't even watch the show
> even though his operating within an evil system still perpetuates evil.
Except Britannian isn't remotely evil hell fucking Charles and Schienzel was just doing what they sought best for the world much like Lelouch did.
>>151667231
> it's just a fact that in the end Lelouch was the one whose philosophy was ultimately acknowledged by the series.
Except it wasn't. The whole point of Turn 18 to 21 was to show that Lelouch's philosophy was not the right way considering he lost fucking everything and as it turned out the person he had been fighting for all along was responsible for his horrible life. Zero's Requiem was NOT apart of his philosophy it was something he came up as a result of everything he had worked for turning to shit. Both Charles and Schinezel followed Lelouch's philosophy and you know how they turned out.
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>>151660454
Did anyone actually like shitzaku? He was a fucking terrible character
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>>151667563
Lelouch's goals aren't the same thing as his philosophy.
Zero Reqiuem was exactly in line with Lelouch's philosophy from the beginning, it's just that his goals changed, but it was still results over everything else, end justifies the means. He used his Geass and massacred and sacrificed thousands of people for the goal of creating a new world, and he succeeded.
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>>151667678
Lots of people did. It was only Lelouch fags and retards who hated him.
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>>151667678
He wasn't, he fulfilled his role pretty well.
>>
Suzaku x Euphy was the best pairing.
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>>151667728
>Lelouch's goals aren't the same thing as his philosophy.
Guess what he failed in his goals and his philosophy got shat on in show.
>>151667728
>Zero Reqiuem was exactly in line with Lelouch's philosophy from the beginning
No it wasn't. It was the complete opposite. The whole point of his game in the beginning is that he sought destruction as a means to get what he wanted, as the show went on he realized that they're more important things in life thus his CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. The whole point of Charles and Schienzel mirror was because they were both reminders of how Lelouch used to be before his revelation. The Lelouch in R1 would have never sacrificed his life for the for the world because he detested it.
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>>151667563
>That doesn't make him right though
Please read my post and note I never said what either Lelouch or Suzaku did was right, don't put words in my mouth. The difference is that Lelouch acknowledges he's committing evil to ultimately achieve good, while Suzaku refuses to realize his methods are just as dirty in pursuit of the same goal. The only solution offered in the show that is close to Suzaku's "do good to achieve good ends" philosophy is Euphie's SAZ.

>Except Britannian isn't remotely evil
Except they clearly are? They're a large military power slowly but surely expanding via conquest and the citizens left in their wake are stripped of national and cultural identity, given "numbers", and functionally treated as slaves. Please explain to me how this isn't evil.

>hell fucking Charles and Schienzel was just doing what they sought best for the world
Which, as you yourself pointed out, doesn't make them right. They perpetuated an evil system to achieve their respective ends.
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>>151668060
>Guess what he failed in his goals
He did?
Can you list his goals for me, because by my count, he accomplished most of them.
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>>151667015
Him killing his father was what caused suffering for his people. While his actions prevented them from being extinct it didn't make their lives better. Him joining the Britannian Army was a way to make amends because he saw working with them much easier than trying to fight because it would lead to less bloodshed (by the end of the show Britannia is still standing and trying to reestablish itself in the world after the opposition is gone)
>it is Lelouch's methods through which they fix the world.
Nope, as to why people still think that ZR was something that represented what Lelouch initially stood for you need to rewatch the show or better yet actually see the compounds of it

>>151667015
>Suzaku alone never would've succeeded in changing Britannia through the proper methods
He became the first Japanese Knight integrated into the Britannian Empire and gained favors with those in the party as well as opened the SAZ. The problem is that we're never shown how successful that would have been because Lelouch fucked it up and the show doesn't really explore thus way of method making. We're shown how wrong Lelouch's philosophy is but Suzaku just ups and gives up when he sees the amount of destruction FLEIJA has made not because of the Empire itself.

>Also, you know, if not for Lelouch, Charles would've probably succeeded in destroying human individuality.
Which has shit to do with his philoshy and methods. Hell the only reason why he even met up with Charles was after the BK betrayed him and when he thought Nunnally was dead so he had nothing to lose at that point.
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>>151666598
>The difference is that Lelouch acknowledged he was committing evil,
Lelouch keeps on trying to tell himself that he'll do absolutely anything and everything evil in order to attain his goals, but he never ever is capable of being as heartless as he imagines himself to be. He's chuuni as fuck.
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>>151668990
I think the most obvious example of this is when during the meeting of the UN as Emperor Lelouch, he had the chance to Geass Kallen and remove her from the upcoming fight, but didn't.
It shows how he forced the role of a villain on himself ultimately and wasn't able to kill all his sentimentality and kindness.
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>>151669215
>Geass Kallen

but he can't do that because he geassed here straight away back when he first saw her in high school
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>>151668627
>The difference is that Lelouch acknowledges he's committing evil to ultimately achieve good
No Lelouch WANTS to tell himself that but he never has the balls to do anything deporable himself. Lelouch is a liar and he wants to believe that all his atrocities would lead to prosperity in the end so he has to play the "bad guy" in order to make himself feel better.
>while Suzaku refuses to realize his methods are just as dirty in pursuit of the same goal.
The whole point of Suzakus character is that he wants to be a good guy by society won't let him, he thinks joining the Brtitannian Army is the best way to atone for what he did but doesn't actually believe in the shit they spout he then meets Euphie who could have cured him but after Lelouch kills her he says fuck it all.

>Except they clearly are?
No they're not. Not all Britannians are evil as clearly shown when they accepted Suzaku into the ranks and with charcaters like Jeremiah, Lloyd, Cecile, Gino, Lelouch's friends, Euphie, Cornelia and even fucking Charles who's entire conquest was for the good of the world in his own twisted way much like Lelouch. The Japanese were a lot less sympathetic than the Brits since most of them were betrayed as even stupid or backstabbing.
>Which, as you yourself pointed out, doesn't make them right.
Yet you're still sucking Lelouch's dick.
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>>151669527
Holy shit, I actually forgot about that.
How embarrassing.
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>>151660824
It's 2008 plus 9 minus a few hours, give up already.
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>>151667388
He wanted to die by being a Brit soldier because it suited a betraying dog like him but still thought it was the right thing to do so he rided lancelot and all. He started to think that he can change the system from inside, by using the "just" and "clean" ways.
Euphy and her naive ideals gave him hope.
But when he lost her he started to understand that he will need to use dirty ways to get what he wanted to. He was still a moralfag but he wasn't that naive anymore.
But he was still naive, thinking that he was on the right path until Zero came around and ruining things. It was all Zero's fault he assumed.
But when he killed millions with freijia nuke, he understood that it is all about results and being a moralfag won't take him anywhere, at all. The path he had been walking on was a really weak one that could have been broken that easily and it did in the end.
That's only when he became more decent.
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>>151667678
He was pretty hateful but still a good character i.m.o.
If you hated him unironically and with a passion then it means he did a good job as a character.
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>>151668990
He acknowledged it during third episode after killing his brother, he knows hes not as edgy as he wishes to be but he still tries hard.
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>>151669751
t. Lelouchfag
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>>151662192
>anglo scum
>master race
Here have a true Ubermensch
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>>151669716
>hasn't seen the s3 trailer
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>>151667678
I did, I was surprised he was hated so much.
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>>151660454
Name a single thing that Lelouch did wrong
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>>151671773
>Couldn't even beat Suzaku in both ideals and skill before being beaten twice
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>>151675145
Let Rolo live after he stopped being useful.
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>>151675276
but it was because of him he was able to escape. why he bother giving him a proper burial is a different story.
>>
Suzaku had better reasoning than Lelouch, but was willfully ignorant to pretty much everything throughout the entire series.
Britannia did worse things than Lelouch throughout the entire series, even while Suzaku was right next to them.

He basically only supported them because he went out of his way to ignore the bad things they were doing.
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>>151675145
couldnt protect shirley ;(
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>>151675192
>didn't have anglo untermensch geass buff and yet still held his own
amazing
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>>151675488
Yes Rolo helped him escape but before that he was busy killing his friends and being pretty useless around the base.
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>>151675889
Suzaku didn't even use his buff to put Gino in his place.
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They both were wrong because they didn't COMMUNICATE with each other.
They both had the same idea of what to do, but their methods were different.
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>>151675145
not going balls deep in kallen or cc every night.
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>>151676192
To be fair if Lelouch let Suzaku know he was Zero early on all that awaited him we being arrested and executed.
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>>151676442
He wanted to fuck Kallen that one time but she didn't want his microdick
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>>151677473
nah, she wanted his dick. problem was he only gave her attention when he was shooting heroin.
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>>151677473
She knew all hero's must be virgins.
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Will Akito and Leila be in R3?
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>>151675801
>Britannia did worse things than Lelouch throughout the entire series
Found the retard
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>>151675145
This implies that he did anything right
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>>151677831
She wanted to be BLACKED by Zero, but sadly he was a white boy and she lost all interest.
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>>151675145
Not testing out what happens when he gives paradoxical commands to people with his geass, for shits and giggles.

>don't listen to this command
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>>151678568
With that Shaft body no one could mistake Zero for a black man.
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>>151679019
He might have, remember Wall Girl? He was testing limitations and usage off screen for a while.
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>>151675801
There was nothing Britannia was doing that was worse than Lelouch in fact if Okouchi was smart enough he would he integrated into the plot that Lelouch had essentially become his father. And Suzaku wasn't ignorant to the atrocities and racism of the Empire he just saw them as the lesser of two evils and wanted to work with them if it would mean less bloodshed. I love how Lelouchfags are willfully ignorant at his actions but are quick to point the finger at everyone else.
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>>151668990
>what is character struggle.
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>>151679132
was it ever touched upon what happens when one gives impossible geass commands to people? like:

>stop breathing until you die
>don't touch the floor
>travel to antartica in one hour
>develop a cure for every disease
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>>151668657
>Can you list his goals for me,
Let's see

He wanted to destroy Britannia - > Britannia is still standing by the end of the show

He wanted to avenge his mother's death - > His mother was responsible for everything bad that has transpired rendering his entire ambition naught

He wanted to create a peaceful world for Nunnally - > Turns out all Nunally really wanted in the end was to be with him


So Lelouch didn't really accomplish any of his original yet retards continue to say that the show favored his philosophy?
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>>151678568
>>151677831
>>151677473
>>151676442
>Thread is about Lelouch and Suzaku
>Kallenfags are always bringing up shipperfaggotry

Why haven't you kill yourselves yet?
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>>151679571
>So when it happens to Lelouch its a character struggle but when it happens to Suzaku he's a shit character? Gotcha
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>>151679832
so did lelouch and suzaku bang? not in a homosexual way
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>>151679989
I don't think Suzaku was a shit character.
>>
Both were really narrow in the way of thinking. Lelouch is supposed to be "by any means necessary" but that only applies violent and other dark methods. He'll be stubbornly against any other way. So people suffer for it, even he has his ass bitten for it. In Suzaku's case, even he has trouble sticking to his "right methods" stuff and it's what pissed Kallen off when he suddenly decided to play the good cop.

It's ridiculous. People don't go "I will never lie no matter what" or "I will always lie to get what I want". But that's what you get. Suzaku had hangups but Lelouch was being an edgelord.
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>>151660454
>Suzaku wants to change things from within
>the only thing he manages to accomplish is being an obstacle for Lelouch
Suzukau was wrong, the only thing he ever did right was start working for Lelouch. The series would have ended in one season if he just joined Lulu at the start.
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>>151679578
I think the geassed person would just try that one task until they die.
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>>151679832
>second image in the thread is Gino
Yeah sure this was on track to be a great thread.
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>>151680099
They just walked each other to Pendragon gently.
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>>151680357
Do people willfully forget that he became the first Japanese Knight integrated into the Britannian Empire?
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>>151679578
>stop breathing until you die
This would work. All the other commands it was explored at one point (I think it was before he killed his step brother in the beginning). It has to be a command that the geass'ed person can do.
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>>151680590
Which means what exactly? The only real perk belongs to the Knight of One, other than that it just seems like he just got shifted out of a command hierarchy that he didn't really have to follow because he worked for Lloyd. It really isn't that much of an accomplishment.

Would be like someone with a shitty spray tan joining the Navy SEALs so he could help get Trump elected.
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>>151682108
>Which means what exactly?
That he changed the fucking system. He was the first pure blood Japanese integrated into the Britannian Empire which was a feat no one thought could be possible and one that the shilled to the public in order to move attention away from Zero showing that it was possible to move up in the system.
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>>151682072
but you can't die by not breathing, at least at a conscious level. you can hold your breath until you pass out, then your autonomic nervous system takes over.
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>>151682108
>Which means what exactly?
That he proved dumbasses like you wrong. If you broke an established hierarchy within the set of rules given then you've changed the system.
>The only real perk belongs to the Knight of One,
KnO just has the right to rule a nation of his own jurisdiction but becoming a Knight also had its own perks and given that he was close to an Imperial Princess the SAZ could go without a hitch.
>other than that it just seems like he just got shifted out of a command hierarchy that he didn't really have to follow because he worked for Lloyd.
And this is also wrong. He worked for Lloyd but he was also a solider he wasn't given any special treatment for being the Lancelot's pilot in fact he was mostly put on suicide missions as a result.
>It really isn't that much of an accomplishment.
His integration was a big fucking deal. You would realize this if you watched the show
>Would be like someone with a shitty spray tan joining the Navy SEALs so he could help get Trump elected.
Not only does this make no fucking sense but it doesn't even apply here.
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>>151666685
>>
>>151680099
Yes, Suzaku penetrated Lelouch in the end
>>
Suzaku's advances in the Britannian system were ultimately only due to being the only one to consistently thwart Zero over and over again.

So, really, Lelouch trying to DESTROY BRITANNIA was what was main condition creating the opening for Suzaku to try to change the Britannian system from within. Without Zero, Suzaku would've just stayed some random eleven.
>>
Why the fuck did rerouchu just say he didn't mean to commit mass murder with Euphemia? I guess he's the type of character to carry weight around like that, but still.
>>
>>151684908
Not really a situation where a "yeah, sorry" would cut it.
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>>151682742
>>151683225
Except he didn't change the system. From the time he was made Euphemia's knight to the nuking, the Japs were still 3rd class citizens they still lived in shitty ghettos, and the ONLY reason he got promoted to Knight of the Round was because he brought in Zero, who only learned about because of VV told him. It wasn't because of his dedication, it wasn't because of his martial skill, it was because VV was trying to capture CC and getting Lelouch out of the picture was the easiest way.

The hierarchy was the same, Suzaku was the only Jap put in any sort of power. The knights are just special forces that report to the Emperor and his proxies like Schneizel, so yeah he moved up to be an errand boy for the Emperor. Which is what he was, he had no influence on internal politics, he had no standing inside his own country even, considering that his fellow Japs risked execution just to assassinate him. He wasn't integrated into anything, the Knights are tools for the Emperor. Any and all of his "changes" were brought about by foreign Royalty.

>if I just show them how useful we can be as a bunch of disposable tools
>then they'll respect us as a people
It's an argument for Stockholm syndrome you retards
>but he made a change in the system!
Yeah so now any and all of the numbers can join the Knights of the Round too! So long as they prove themselves as worthwhile tools for the Emperor by selling out their terrorist friends after accidentally befriending on of his children and being shoved into a prototype fighting robot. Suzaku sure set the rule and not the exception.
>>
Point of Code Geass was that both of them were wrong but also right. Lelouch was closer to right though Suzaku is more realistic outside of the series.
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>>151679132
I hope Orange-kun fixes wall girl in R3.
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>>151685236
>Except he didn't change the system
Becoming the fucst Japanese Knight in the Empire IS CHANGING THE SYSTEM
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>>151685236
suzakus goal wasnt to change the system by proving he was useful.

It was to become the knight of one. The KoO gets control of a territory. his goal was always to move up the ranks, become the KoO and then essentially take over japan. That's how he intended to work within the system. Not change public opinion of the japanese due to his work ethic or whatever.
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>>151679685
>destroy Britannia
At the end of the show, the Britannia he hated no long existed.
>avenge mother's death
I guess he didn't avenge her in the end, but he didn't have a reason to once he found out that she let herself be killed.
>create a peaceful world
What Nunnally wanted is irrelevant. He wanted a peaceful world, he made a peaceful world. However, this one is not set in stone because we need to see what will happen in R3.
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>>151685743
She'll be fine, everyone needs a hobby.
>>
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Lelouch did nothing wrong.
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>>151684795
>Suzaku's advances in the Britannian system were ultimately only due to being the only one to consistently thwart Zero over and over again.
Nope. He gained favors with Euphie, Llyod and Darlton who generally liked him as a person it had shit to do with Zero.

>>151685236
>Except he didn't change the system
Let me repeat myself "Being the first Japanese soldier to join the ranks of the Britannian Army" is something that never happened before since they took over, that is the very definition of changing the system and the fact that you are trying so hard to argue against it makes you look like a jackass.

>From the time he was made Euphemia's knight to the nuking, the Japs were still 3rd class citizens they still lived in shitty ghettos, and the ONLY reason he got promoted to Knight of the Round was because he brought in Zero, who only learned about because of VV told him.
Your arguing several different things here. Suzaku getting knighting wasn't automatically going to change the status of every Japanese in the Ghettos him getting knighted was a sign that Britannia was acceptable for change now had the SAZ went through it could have been possible but because Lelouch screwed it it could never come to be. Suzaku was already knighted by Britannian Empire and he was knighted again by Cornelia for rescuing her, he could not have been given word with the Emperor had he not had those rights whether or not he had Zero in tow it just increased his chances at that.
>It wasn't because of his dedication
That's how he got knighted by Euphiemoia and again by Corneiia. Watch the show before you spout shit
>it wasn't because of his martial skill
Wrong again
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>>151686378
Read the wiki anon.
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>>151686471
Well shit.
>>
>>151685236
>The knights are just special forces that report to the Emperor and his proxies like Schneizel, so yeah he moved up to be an errand boy for the Emperor. Which is what he was, he had no influence on internal politics, he had no standing inside his own country even, considering that his fellow Japs risked execution just to assassinate him. He wasn't integrated into anything, the Knights are tools for the Emperor. Any and all of his "changes" were brought about by foreign Royalty.
Wrong on all accounts dumbfuck. Its been shown countless of times that Knights have influence and one of the main reasons why the SAZ went through was because Suzaku was knighted it wasn't just Euphie's proposal and the KnO has the right to govern a piece of land which was Suzaku's goal.

>It's an argument for Stockholm syndrome you retards
Except that wasn't Suzaku's goal. Diethard explain it himself that if the Japanese saw that possibility then they wouldn't rally around Zero
>DAT STRAWMAN
Lose gracefully next time without making a fool of yourself Rager
>>151686341
>At the end of the show, the Britannia he hated no long existed.
There is no specification to that at all. HE WANTED BRITANNIA GONE PERIOD.
>I guess he didn't avenge her in the end, but he didn't have a reason to once he found out that she let herself be killed.
So he didn't achieve his goal/ Thanks for this worthless reply
>What Nunnally wanted is irrelevant
And that's the ultimately irony of it all. He never truly understood a damn thing.
>He wanted a peaceful world, he made a peaceful world.
Wrong again dumbfuck. He wanted a peaceful world for Nunnally to live in but as it turns out what she wanted was to be with him and even then he still failed since the world is not at peace at all.
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>>151685236
>Becoming the first Japanese blood Knight in Britannian history isn't changing the system

I'll never understand the logic of Suzakurager.
>>
>>151660454
I picking between Qusling and Cobra Commander
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>>151675145
Died
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>>151688810
>>
>>151684908
Lelouch believed the end is what matters. He didn't intend for that to happen, but he took full advantage of it and the result was roughly the same as planned.

If Lelouch said Euphienator was an accident, Suzaku would have gotten pissed at how ridiculous that is and at Lelouch for trying to cover his ass. Instead Lelouch owned up to everything and Suzaku could tell there was more to it.
>>
>"must protect my sister's purity!"
>*mind rapes her*
Lelouch is an irredeemable piece of shit and he's as hypocrite as Suzaku
>>
what ova is julius kingsley in?
>>
>>151660454
The guy who completely failed then went along with the others plan.
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