The "what will Vegeto do in the manga" edition.
>I write an outline of the entire plot, then the script writers break it up into episodes, expanding on things, changing things around, or adding in new bits as need be.
>Even I haven’t checked the final script yet.
>Let’s enjoy this together (laughs)!!
>I had put Dragon Ball behind me, but seeing how much that live-action film ticked me off, and how I revised that script for the anime movie and complained about the quality of the TV anime, I suppose somewhere along the line it’s become a series I like too much to ever leave alone.
>Speaking of the manga, I want to ask you two about how you put the manga together. I hear Toriyama-sensei checks the storyboards for each chapter.
>Toriyama: That’s right.
>Back when Toriyama-sensei was drawing the manga, the animators would use his manga panels as reference, imitating the composition and things like that. And now it seems that the animators are likewise using Toyotaro-sensei‘s manga as reference.
>Toriyama: Oh, that’s good! That should keep them on track!
>Every month, I'll create a storyboard for him to review, and then he'll give me input and suggest changes. When I'm working with Toriyama, there are many portions he gives me props for coming up with, but he is very particular about other things and always points them out for me to correct. And when he corrects me, I think “Wow, I guess I don't completely understand the way he looks at things,” so his corrections and feedback are incredibly accurate and helpful. It's a lot of fun to be able to get closer to his way of thinking
Probably the same:
- Overpowers Zamasu, but unable to kill him since he's immortal.
- Zamasu transforms into a semi-giant out of anger
- Potara runs out
I'd be surprised if the Potara Kai rule doesn't exist in Toriyama's script.
So then Toyble fucking up the Future Trunks arc was Toriyama's fault??
I'd actually be very disappointed if Vegetto doesn't make a return in the manga.
His fight was so much fun
Everything that was mentioned in the previous thread
> SS Black getting wrecked by SS2 Vegeta, when the manga said SS2 Trunks = SS3 Goku (and he used god power to knock out Trunks)
> Too rushed. No Human Resistance, no Future Yajirobe, less comfy comments. Zamasu switching bodies with Goku despite never meeting him.
> Ruined Black's character. His smug and flamboyant personality is gone. Also made him a complete pushover, removing tension from the arc.
>Black getting wrecked
Trunks was malnourished and weak as fuck fighting Black, and Goku wasn't going all out.
>No human resistance
Fucking good. Their very existence made no sense.
>Ruined Black's character
>Waaaah my Black is getting BTFO waaaaah
I don't see any problems, faggot.
you realize you can't argue about power levels when base Black toys with Blue Vegeta in the anime, that's beyond retarded.
Also we got plenty of smug Black for months before this chapter and I'm sure he'll be plenty smug again when he achieves Rose form which is mentioned in TA's sketches.
You're thinking of the Great Cuckasaiyajobman, and that's this guy. It's pretty easy to confuse the two though, I'll give you that.
>I'd be surprised if the Potara Kai rule doesn't exist in Toriyama's script.
Seriously hope this is the case and there will be a different reason why they separated inside of Buu. I was so pissed that potara fusion is pretty much the same with the regular one but that doesn't even matter because if you use too much power the fusion will end in 5 minutes anyway which has happened various times in DB.
When they made Vegito come back atleast do it properly. It's just a huge wasted potential what they did in anime.
SS3 Goku > SS2 Vegeta
Manga said: SS2 Trunks = SS3 Goku
Base form Black >>> SS2 Trunks
Yet SS2 Vegeta >>> SS Black??
There's no way Trunks being hungry makes that much less powerful. Also the manga never mentioned Trunks was weaker and malnourished. Nice headcanon
> Fucking good. Their very existence made no sense.
They gave Trunks and Mai motivation. Also seeing Future Yajirobe save the day was fun.
> Waaaah my Black is getting BTFO
Again, it's not just Black getting BTFO'd on the manga. His personality was butchered.
What happened? Black was a very popular villain, but now that the manga ruined him...all of the sudden mangafags hate Black?
>base Black toys with Blue Vegeta in the anime
Then Vegeta trains hard enough that he freaking blew up the Hyperbolic Time Chamber.
Strong villains are fun. Weak ones are uninteresting and create a tension-less atmosphere.
>No he didn't. Zeno did, Trunks failed, and only made it worse.
Yes he did, he destroy Fused Zamasu's body he beat him. Deal with it.
>He was understandably undee the impression that he had one whole hour. Also maybe he wanted to beat him up enough to vaporize him?
So no reason other than your headcanon? Ok.
>Only because SS3 drained Goku completely
How does this change the fact that power was a factor. The difference between Fused Zamasu and Future Trunks should have been just as big as Kid Buu vs Goku, hell probably even bigger. Reminder that Black said his power had become so strong that even he couldn't comprehend it. Also after the two Zamasus fused both Kaioshins stated that his power was beyond anything they have ever felt and these guys should be familiar with the God of destructions.
>Trunks was also using borrowed power.
Yes the power of Earth which went through several years of the Android apocalypse and Black's ningen bullshit back to back. Living off cat and dog food.
>Again, reminder that Black said his power had become so stronger that even he couldn't comprehend it. Also after the two Zamasu fused both Kaioshin stated that his power was beyond anything they have ever felt and these guys should be familiar with the God of destructions.
>You obviously didnt see the Namek Saga.
You obviously haven't read the manga.
>cocky, flamboyant. Even masochistic. So now you're shitting on Black now that the manga ruined him?
Same as in the manga.
Black is a meme character dude.
>He barely missed her with his attack. She got knocked out because of the explosion.
So not only did he fail to kill her various times, he's aim sucks too? Great a MFTL character can't hit a peak human character oh the tension.
>SS3 Goku > SS2 Vegeta
Not since BoG and RoF when Goku realized making the lower forms more efficient was more important. You know he only went SS3 against Trunks to show off because he didn't realize Trunks had also figured that out. That's why he went SSG too. Goku is an immature showoff faggot, even Whis said so.
Vegetto's speech against Broly is really touching, I think it's one of the best part of DBM.
> "lol let me use one single frame where Vegetto is on the floor"
Did you even watch the fight?
Honestly the nerf would've better fit the fusion dance.
The big bad drawback on potara was that it was permanant thus it was the ultimate last resort, the thing would likely require dragon balls to remove. That or mystical buu oxygen.
>How is solar flare any different?
Because it's a martial arts move used by a character who isn't infinitely weaker than the target. Are you really defending Universe tier characters getting blindsided by tear gas? Toei shills
>Black completely wrecked Goku/Vegeta/Trunks. Instantly stabbing Vegeta and manhandling Goku and Trunks
I didn't know SSTrunks kicking SSR Black into a building=Black manhandling Trunks
Also after which
The resistance a bunch of regular humans were able to blindside SSR Black and immortal Zamasu with tear gas and saved Goku,Vegeta and Future Trunks right from under them.
So yeah people living off dog and cat food in a run down planet Earth, stopped the main villains from reaching their goal. Oh the tension.
>Yes he did, he destroy Fused Zamasu's body he beat him. Deal with it.
No, he didn't. You complete retard. An enemy isn't beaten until they can no longer fight against you. Zamasu was still BTFO'ing Trunks and co even after the Genki sword bullshit.
If Goten had the Power Pole and fused with Trunks who gets a sword wouldn't he end up with a stretching magical sword as Gotenks?
Regardless it was training. And apparently tough enough to blow up the whole place.
Also Vegeta's "I am Vegeta-sama" moment is explained through his anger. Maybe you don't like that explanation, but at least there is one.
SS Black jobbing to Vegeta makes zero sense.
What's wrong? You mad that I'm not a fan of your shitty asspull "muh rage give me a new ability hehe nothin personnel ningen" character? Fuck off, everyone has a different opinion.
>But there is a huge difference between thinking a group of people should be removed and gong and removing them yourself
And guess what? Zamasu ALWAYS planned on removing ningens himself. Pay attention.
>That's barely a side effect
It effective removes two major character's permanently. That's far more than a side effect.
>The nerf is best for the franchise in the long run.
It makes the fusion worthless in the long run with the time given to it. Considering they may face up against stronger opponents the extremel time restriction outright assures that it'll never get the job done. Why have two forms fusions in the universe then nerf them to be the same? The Nerf was highly unneeded and extremely retarded considering they already had a form of fusion that could've fulfilled that nerfed role.
So many fucking retards whining about Black "jobbing" to SS2 Vegeta while conveniently forgetting that at the beginning of the fight, base Black effortlessly avoided Vegeta's attack and fought fairly evenly with him, with Vegeta having the advantage presumably due to his greater fighting experience and Black's inexperience with Goku's body against an opponent on his level. He didn't start getting BTFO like a bitch until Vegeta went SSB, which makes absolute sense considering Black is SS.
Why are they killing masculinity in dragonball super? Why are they toning it down?
>SS Black getting wrecked by SS2 Vegeta, when the manga said SS2 Trunks = SS3 Goku (and he used god power to knock out Trunks)
He says while defending the anime.
SSTrunks kicks SSR Black into building
The point is to nerf all types of fusion so it's not an "I win" condition. They always had to sneak in a dumb reference to fusion to defeat their foes and it's good that it's out of the equation so it's not an easy win and answer to everything.
>Have you even read the chapter?
Have you? Vegeta was winning but he wasn't brutally wrecking him like he does in SSB like so many here are claiming. Assmad Blackfags have become the new Gohanfags.
>The "what will Vegeto do in the manga" edition.
I would rather have Fused Trunks desu
could perfect cell still absorb people to get power boosts? and if so why didn't he during the cell games when gohan was wrecking him? i know he absorbed goku in gt but that's not canon.
>Yes he did, he destroy Fused Zamasu's body he beat him. Deal with it.
Zamasu was immortal. He only released Zamasu, and then Zamasu took over the entire universe. Then Zeno-chan happens. Pay attention.
> lol headcanon
Goku and Vegeta even said they were confused why the fusion lasted a shorter time. Again, pay attention
> How does this change the fact that power was a factor.
Well if you payed attention, you'd know that Gowasu said the fusion backfired (because of Black's mortality). Also this was after his fight with SSB Vegetto.
Very different from Kid Buu who basically has infinite stamina. And is as good as new after every fatal attack.
> Yes the power of Earth which went through several years of the Android apocalypse and Black's ningen bullshit
If you payed attention during the Namek Saga, you'd know that the Spirit Bomb also gets energy from EVERY living thing (plants, animals, etc)
> Same as in the manga.
> Yeah no
He stabs himself when it seemed that Vegeta had the upper-hand
> Black is a meme character dude.
And how all of the sudden, Black isn't popular anymore. Wonder why.
Didn't Turankusu mention something about being suspicious of how easily Black was being knocked around? Maybe he jobbed to make Vegeta jobbing next chapter all the more embarrassing
It wasn't an I win condition when Gotenks first went up against Majin Buu. But it's not like I can surprised that this shit has worse writing than Moon Over June considering they're incapable to writing around or through things so they simply retcon or nerf things.
>Vegeta was humiliating Black even as a SSJ2.
>Because it's a martial arts move
And the other is a weaponized chemical. And they both serve the same function.
> I didn't know SSTrunks kicking SSR Black into a building=Black manhandling Trunks
One successful attack doesn't mean Black didn't completely overpower Trunks (which he did)
> So yeah people living off dog and cat food in a run down planet Earth, stopped the main villains from reaching their goal
Just like how a weakling can use Solar Flare to blind a much powerful villain. Also it's always nice seeing other characters do things for a change.
Vegeta was pummelling him while had his shield up, besides that the only scene that could have been "humiliating" is the initial two fist lunging tackle he did that got him by surprise.
The two were shown to be exchanging punches and kicks, hardly something I'd call humiliating.
It doesn't matter if you're the same anon or not. Point is my post is barely 10 minutes old and you can't even remember that far back, resulting in you making a fool of yourself. Just stop posting and save yourself further embarrassment.
no? nothing? i guess this is the wrong place to come for an actual dragon ball discussion, you fucking autists would rather scream and whine about manga vs anime, muh black muh black, and post waifu shit
>SSTrunks kicks SSR Black into building
That same fight, Black beat Trunks. One successful attack didn't mean he won.
> Pic related
You mean the time Trunks goes all-out with borrowed energy and STILL didn't defeat Zamasu?
>i hate speculation, i hate fun discussions
go back to the same pointless arguments you pathetic fucking faggots always have, you goddamn waste of oxygen. fuck you and fuck everyone else in this shit cancer thread. you're all a bunch of fucking autistic neet morons
He shielded himself from the blasts, I don't think that's humiliating.
>Zamasu was immortal
At last, Trunks kicked Zamasu ass and only survived thanks to his immortality. Otherwise he beat someone Vegito coudn't.
>Goku and Vegeta even said they were confused why the fusion lasted a shorter time.
God your reading comprehension is shit. Why do you think I'm talking about the timelimt when didn't greentext it? You said Vegito could have beat Zamasu with his spirit sword, he didn't.
>Well if you payed attention, you'd know that Gowasu said the fusion backfired (because of Black's mortality).
>How does this change the fact that power was a factor.
>Reminder that Black said his power had become so strong that even he couldn't comprehend it. Also after the two Zamasus fused both Kaioshins stated that his power was beyond anything they have ever felt and these guys should be familiar with the God of destructions.
>plants, animals, etc)
Yes because Future Trunks' world is plenty full of plants and animals. Oh wait, it's not. Retard.
>He stabs himself when it seemed that Vegeta had the upper-hand
And? Vegeta told Krillin to blast him, is he a masochistic? No retard, he trying to use Zenkai and Rage Saiyan powerup bullshit,.
>And how all of the sudden, Black isn't popular anymore.
Memes get old after a while anon.
>didn't defeat Zamasu
>annihilated his physical body and caused him to scream in agony as he disappeared
>b-but he didn't defeat him
Whatever helps your flimsy-ass argument, I suppose.
A being that thinks he's perfection has no need to drink his opponents. This was already pre established when incomplete Cell drank himself to full power in his first form. He could have siphoned Piccolo but he blasted him in the stomach and tossed him into the water because he was done extracting life essence.
>Toeil shills actually defending tear gas on Universe tier characters
Because regular weapons have been really usefull aganist top tier characters. Also it's not Future Earth has much advance resources like Freeza's army.
>One successful attack
He parried many of Black attack's >>151517230
>doesn't mean Black didn't completely overpower Trunks (which he did)
You mean after Zamasu held him down? So he needed help.
>Just like how a weakling can use Solar Flare to blind a much powerful villain.
>reaching this hard
i also feel like he wouldn't want to resort to absorbing others after he hit perfect because he's an arrogant twat but i just wondered if anyone else thought he actually could have pulled a gt and absorbed one of the saiyans for a massive power boost
sorry for the earlier sperging i'm just shit tired of the same arguments every thread, forgive me s-senpai
I like how Black getting rektd by SS2 Goku to the point it looks like he has a heart virus is a ok
SSR Black getting kicked into a building by SSTrunks a ok,
The resistance a bunch of regular humans were able to blindside SSR Black and immortal Zamasu with tear gas a ok
Black get knocked on his ass by a bullet a ok,
but Black getting rekted by SSB Vegeta is somehow bad.
>Black getting rektd by SS2 Goku to the point it looks like he has a heart virus is a ok
>Otherwise he beat someone Vegito coudn't.
Except Vegetto could've. Zamasu wasn't stronger than Vegetto. He just got lucky the Potara weared off.
> You said Vegito could have beat Zamasu with his spirit sword, he didn't.
Point is he had the strength. But the time-limit came as a surprise for them.
> Yes because Future Trunks' world is plenty full of plants and animals.
Yes it is? Look somewhere where it isn't a city, like Zamasu's cabin.
> And? Vegeta told Krillin to blast him, is he a masochistic
Still more personality than Manga Black. As others have said, where's Manga Black's smug and flamboyance?
> Memes get old after a while anon.
Only when they start sucking in your preferred medium
>Toeil shills actually defending tear gas on Universe tier characters
Because it wasn't meant to hurt. Just blind, like how Solar Flare from weaklings worked on Galaxy-tier villains.
> He parried many of Black's attacks
"Many" is a stretch. Also Black still won.
>but Black getting rekted by SSB Vegeta is somehow bad.
Only because Base form Black wrecked SS2 Trunks (manga said he's SS3 Goku-tier)
Pay attention retards
I'm disappointed with how Toyotaro is handling the Future Trunks arc.
He did much better with the Universe 6 Tourney arc...which is saying a lot because I didn't really like his version of Frost vs Piccolo, or Goku vs Hit.
>Except Vegetto could've
>Point is he had the strength
>Yes it is?
No it's not. In episode 65 we the whole planet go to shit lava, storms, blizzards, earthquakes etc. That planet was not filled with life. Quit reaching.
>Still more personality than Manga Black
Anime Black whose arc has concluded has more personality than Manga Black whose arc is still ongoing?!? HolY SHIT Dude!!!
>Only when they start sucking in your preferred medium
Whatever helps you sleep at night dude.
>references a single frame that you would know ended in Vegito purposely playing possum to stab Zamasu had you actually watched the episode
>lol vegito couldn't have killed zamasu he was so much weaker here's proof
Fuck outta here.
SS2 Vegeta fought Black in a battle where he had somewhat of an advantage, most likely due to Black never having fought an opponent on or even near his level before. Of course he was winning, this was Black's trial run vs Vegeta's millionth fight.
Stupid fucking dumbass. Stop wasting my time with your idiocy.
>Because it wasn't meant to hurt
Doesn't matter. It made anime Black and anime Zamasu look like clowns.
>Just blind, like how Solar Flare from weaklings worked on Galaxy-tier villains.
>"Many" is a stretch. Also Black still won
Many is the truth, quit reaching.
>Also Black still won.
With Zamasu help, by himself he was having trouble.
Pretty fucking smug
At the time of the fusion they were only up against Fat Buu, who Goku was confident fusion would be powerful enough to defeat. Goku was also only toying with Buu as an SS3, he was in control of that fight and it was stated he could have killed him if he had tried.
Deal with it.
Trunks dealt with Zamasu faster and his Genki Dama blade made Zamasu cry in pain unlike Vegeto ki sword.
See: DBS Episode 66
> In episode 65
After Fusion Zamasu's fight overwhelms the planet. But there is still life.
Also Goku, Vegeta, Gowasu, and Kaioshin helped with the Spirit Bomb.
> Manga Black whose arc is still ongoing
And supposedly concluding soon. But so far from what we've seen, Black is boring.
Nope see >>151516370 and >>151518774
>But there is still life.
No, quit reaching. We see a few cameo characters barely any enough life to make that Genki dama believable.
>Also Goku, Vegeta
Who spent most of their Ki doing the fusion.
>Gowasu, and Kaioshin
Zamasu by himself is superior both of them.
>Anime Black whose arc has concluded has more personality than Manga Black whose arc is still ongoing?!? HolY SHIT Dude!!!
Also Black is boring in both versions he's a meme character.
>It made anime Black and anime Zamasu look like clowns.
Being temporarily blinded is not as bad as getting completely humiliated by someone who should be weaker than you
Krillin using Solar Flare to Freeza
> With Zamasu help
And Trunks had SSB Goku
A healthy 100% health and stamina Trunks going full throttle is SSJ3 tier.
That doesn't need necesarrily mean a malnourished Trunks surviving off half a can of cat food is equivalent in strength.
Stamina as a resource is very important in the manga.
So I've been re reading all of dragon ball and it's been a fun ride all the way up until chapter 370 which is when Cell finds the androids.
Then scans go to utter and absolute trash quality.
So does anyone know where I can find some decent scans for the Cell saga or should I head to my local library and buy the 3 remaining volumes before the scans become good again?
>defending Zamasu and Black getting fucked by tear gas
But let's ignore it working on them for a second and focus on the fact these two retards couldn't just move out of the fucking way
No being a Universe tier fighter and having regular humans stop you from reaching you goal is trash anyway you slice it.
>Krillin using Solar Flare to Freeza
Freeza isn't Galaxy-tier and Kuririn was able to hurt him using Destructo Disc. Nice try.
>And Trunks had SSB Goku
Not in this short exchange >>151517230
>SS2 Vegeta is stronger than SS3 Goku
Oh wow never seen that before
Never never never
Also who the fuck cares about that? Their SSB are probably at the same level. Vegeta knows how to use SS2 better, just like Trunks, that's all.
> Trunks lost to Black for years because he was hungry
> dropping from SS3 Goku tier to below SS2 Vegeta
Nice headcanon. Not only is the drop in power ridiculous, the Manga didn't say shit about Trunks being malnourished.
Read the chapter faggot
Black had to be rescued.
Or are u gonna pull the "hurr he didn't lose because he didnt die"
Or do this or this >>151518683
>038 - 035
>Saiyan saga Vegeta > Full Power genki dama >>> Genki dama made with a couple of humans, a flower, a cat and a tired as fuck base Goku and base Vegeta >>> Merged Zamasu
Vegeta confirmed stronger than Zamasu
> Who spent most of their Ki doing the fusion.
Both still had enough to give
> Zamasu by himself is superior both of them.
No shit. But this is SS Rage(Anger?) Trunks + Base form Goku + Vegeta + Gowasu + Kaioshin + Every other living being + every other living animal, plant vs a beaten-up (Post Vegetto battle, fusion back-firing, etc) Zamasu
And again, the attack didn't fucking beat Zamasu. Zeno-chan did.
> Also Black is boring in the anime
It's still a "solar flare" effect anyway you slice it
> Not in this short exchange
> One particular scene
Still had SSB Goku in general
Seriously these power level obsessives who catalog every time anyone was ever compared to anyone else and try to make some kind of objective "who would win in a fight" tier list are the worst.
Different fights occur in different circumstances, chance is a factor, as is both fighters' state of mind at the time of the fight. Martial arts and combat in general are not a simple matter of "whoever has the bigger number wins"
And this is a fictional story for god's sake. Obviously the outcomes of fights are going to serve drama more than some ridiculous obsessive tier list.
>have no argument
I accept your concession.
>Both still had enough to give
But not enough to sustain the fusion and they couldn't go SSB afterwards. So meh.
Fused Zamasu(Black who said his power had become so stronger that even he couldn't comprehend it, stronger than everyone there except for Vegeta, plus his Hit tier Zenkai bullshit+Zamasu who fight on par with Goku and is stronger than the two Kaioshins) Also after the two Zamasus fused both Kaioshins stated that his power was beyond anything they have ever felt and these guys should be familiar with the God of destructions pic related>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Trunks who is weaker than Black by himself,some of Goku and Vegeta limited Ki, two Kaioshins weaker than Zamasu and the power of Earth which went through several years of the Android apocalypse and Black's ningen bullshit back to back. Living off cat and dog food. Plus the planet doing to fight during the final battle lava, storms, blizzards, earthquakes etc Making sure there was little life left.
Yet Trunks won, bullshit.
Doesn't mean much coming from you.
>It's still a "solar flare" effect anyway
Nope, more like plot induced stupidity.
>Still had SSB Goku in general
>One particular scene
And? That one particular scene is the only time they go head to head without their partners. Quit being butthurt.
>I accept your concession.
You're the one who didn't have an argument first. I just called you out on it.
> Fusion Zamasu
You forget Gowasu said the fusion was unstable. You can see the fusion taking a toll on Zamasu.
So Impaired, and beaten-up villain vs SS Rage Trunks + Base form Goku + Vegeta + Gowasu (unknown power) + Kaioshin (dwarves Buu Saga Piccolo) + Every other human + Living Android + All other life
Either way Trunks didn't kill Zamasu. Zeno-chan did remember
>have no argument
I know I accept your concession.
>You forget Gowasu said the fusion was unstable
Stable enough to kick Vegeto's ass.
>You can see the fusion taking a toll on Zamasu.
Not really before the Genki Dama asspull his immortality was still working a bit. All that unstable line meant was he got a two faces makeover.
>Either way Trunks didn't kill Zamasu. Zeno-chan did remember
>Except Zeno-chan did
Stop being retarded, Zeno didn't cut Zamasu in half Trunks did, all your mental gymnastics won't change that.
What inconsistency does Toei have that Toyotaro doesnt?
> No RoF, filler, or the last half of F.Trunks arc since the manga doesn't have the RoF arc and hasn't reached the end of F. Trunks arc.
Objective. Both Black and Zamasu could have handled that situation in many ways (see >>151519300) but instead they got clowned.
Reminder that Zamasu is meant to be a combat genius.
would it be acceptable if the next transformation would just be a re-coloration to white?
>"I won cause I said so!"
> Stable enough to kick Vegeto's ass.
> All that unstable line meant was he got a two faces makeover.
The "unstable" comment Gowasu said was meant for more than just cosmetics.
> Zeno didn't cut Zamasu in half Trunks did
And Trunks made it worse. Zeno saved the day. Which is EXACTLY what will happen in the manga, going by pic related
>Both Black and Zamasu could have handled that situation
What situation? Being blind-sided by a blinding attack? Either way, given their reaction afterwards, they didn't seem to care much ("they're going to come back anyway")
>the weak planet spirit sword argument
It was strengthened by Goku and Vegeta who were still at close to full power. The fusion wore off and they got hit once, they were fine. Power of one SSB >>>>>>>>>> the power of the entire spirit bomb that was used against Buu.
>The "unstable" comment Gowasu said was meant for more than just cosmetics.
Well than the anime should have done been a better job expanding on that.
Stop being retarded, Zeno didn't cut Zamasu in half Trunks did, all your mental gymnastics won't change that.
>Except that one (major) inconsistency ruins the arc's villain
How you toeishills are so pathetic to lie that way? Ignoring the statement of Trunks being SS3 tier the power scale still perfect, in the shitty anime SS2 Trunks is SS2 Goku tier, then Zamasu tier, then Zamasu and Trunks are SSR/SSB tier, then Trunks only can handle a SSR using SSAnger and Zamasu returns to be bellow SSR tier... It's DBZ again (you don't remember SS2 Goku being more usefull vs kid Buu than SS3 Goku?). Transformations means nothing in toei stories so they fucked every arc and you know it
>It was strengthened by Goku and Vegeta who were still at close to full power.
>It was strengthened by Goku and Vegeta who were still at close to full power.
It's never really explained whether the fusion takes away your energy or just uses up more time as SSB.
I know it's GT, but going by SS4 Gogeta vs Omega, the fusion wore off BUT Goku and Vegeta still had plenty of energy left.
The problem is that people are still too used to the old DBZ way of power which indicated that if someone was stronger than you even by marginal amounts, your punches literally could not hurt them at all. Super doesn't work that way. Just because a character is capable of getting hurt by a punch doesn't mean they are weaker than that person necessarily. I never considered Zamasu (non fused) to be above anyone in strength in that final battle even though he got a few punches in.
>It's never really explained whether the fusion takes away your energy or just uses up more time as SSB
What I'm saying is that they DID explain it - through visualizations rather than dialogue. The transformation only used up time and not all of their energy, which is why their energy contributed such a massive amount to the genki dama. What we saw on screen WAS the explanation, because it's the only way that the genki dama having that much strength makes any sort of logical sense at all.
The situation where they wanted to kill Goku,Vegeta and Trunks but got stopped by regular humans using conventional means. Thus making them look like clowns.
> they didn't seem to care much
That explains why they were rushing to get to Goku and the others before the time machine left. Dude quit reaching.
Still didn't "laugh it off". It cant hurt him, but he's still immortal.
Also he got punched right after that, and judging by his immediate reaction, HURT
>people think they're about to see the final battle in the manga right now
Kek. They JUST brought in future Zamasu. Theyre definitely going to battle a little bit, Black will go SSR after receiving this last zenkai from Vegeta beating him up. Then they will go back to the present and train before coming back. People expecting a really big departure from the anime are going to be disappointed.
What stupid excuses are you using? SS2 Trunks and Zamasu are HUNDREDS times weaker than any SSB/SSR, they should be instantly destroyed as soon they receive a single punch. You simply can't defend toei power scale, shitposter-kun
>What I'm saying is that they DID explain it - through visualizations
You mean when they both immediately got attacked when the fusion wore off?
Doesnt mean their ki is completely drained.
Only the "Black" part of him. The fusion was flawed and fucked up since it was the same person merging with himself, leaving certain weird things like that vulnerable.
When he went all purple like that, the implication was that whatever remained of Black and his soul was kinda dead in that moment.
>Only the "Black" part of him
Yet the Black part of him was fine after the Final Kamehameha.
>whatever remained of Black and his soul was kinda dead in that moment.
Really? Because that Ki blade looks alot like Black's version rather than Zamasu's version.
>Half his body is freaking melting.
>All that unstable line meant was he got a two faces makeover.
Pay attention, before you jump into an argument anon.
>Then he grows in size.
>That's not normal
You must be new to Dragon Ball.
So many people in this fanbase need to learn how to pay attention. Also funny how an animefag is trying to attack the manga for messed up powerlevels.
Same exact thing.
Only difference is the manga doesn't have the Human Resistance to give Trunks motivation and energy for the Spirit Bomb.
Maybe he'll cut Zamasu some other way?
Zeno-chan has to be involved in some way or another, since Goku still received the button.
>No it wasn't.
Really? Because his immortality was still working >>151520533 before the Genki Dama asspull and he was fighting on par with Vegeto just fine.
Meant to reply to >>151521691
> im not
Im not what?
> Because his immortality was still working
Right after Vegetto stabbed him, Zamasu winced in pain.
And Vegetto called him out on it, saying fusing with the mortal Black made his immortality half-assed or fake.
There's still some signs of it though, since he regenrated.
>tfw filthy ningens are disgracing the gods again
>tfw all Zamasu wanted was to be with Vados but he knew that Son Goku had stolen her heart
>tfw he wished to steal Goku's body in order to get together with her but she knew what he did and rejected him
>tfw Vados is a ningenphile
>tfw rejecting heterosexual copulation for self-worship and homoeroticism instead
>tfw nothing but regret
This covered my main beef with the Vegetto appearance:
What do Goku's fingers smell like?
Will Gohan pull a Trunks and achieve SS Rage?
Can Gohan hypothetically even reach SS Rage when he's already Ultimate/Mystic?
Is she still best girl?
Depends. Does this count as an erection?
If the creator is here can you add the top and bottom left panels to the beautiful art section.
Compare it to Zamasu surpassing SSJ2 all the way to SSJB.
Compare it to SS2 Trunks managing his own against SSJR Black and Zamasu.
Compare it to Trunks being able to defeat Merged Zamasu despite the fact that Vegito's most powerful attacks couldn't.
>Compare it to Zamasu surpassing SSJ2 all the way to SSJB
Didn't SSB Goku blow away Zamasu with one punch. With his back turned?
> Compare it to SS2 Trunks managing his own against SSJR Black and Zamasu
He wasn't on his own. Also still lost, so there's no comparison.
> Compare it to Trunks being able to defeat Merged Zamasu
He didn't. Even with his borrowed energy, he couldn't. Zeno had to step in.
Yes. Powerlevels are everything, if John cena dropkicks trump, trump explodes, because Cena powerlevel is far bigger than Trumps. The presidency transformation is just a cheap tactic.
so as an adult white male that watched dragon ball the last time as a 10 y old
would you recommend me watching db s ?
But anon, Tomaru is the president, not the daughter hater. Truly a president wouldn't suck public cock by not banging his daughters if he wants to.
As someone who's read both the manga and watched the anime, it's very nitpicky.
Cherry-picking some parts, assuming some others, with a couple of truths.
But highlighting the power consistency, as the other posts have said, is pretty silly.
>SSB Goku blow away Zamasu with one punch.
You're implying pulling off an off guard attack is equivalent to being stronger? SSJB Goku has pulled many punches like that to Black but was always inferior in strength and power.
>He wasn't on his own.
I never said that, you retard. I said he was holding his own, in other words, standing his ground. He fought Zamasu separately from Goku and Black's battle despite the enormous power gap between the two.
He did. He rendered Zamasu without his body, something that Vegito couldn't do. That whole ending was terribly written nonetheless.
>You're implying pulling off an off guard attack is equivalent to being stronger?
Tell me where Zamasu overpowered SSB then
> He fought Zamasu separately from Goku and Black's battle despite the enormous power gap between the two.
And still lost with SSB Goku's help
> something that Vegito couldn't do
Big difference between "couldn't" and "didn't"
>Tell me where Zamasu overpowered SSB then
You can't be this dense. I never said Zamasu was stronger than SSJB. I said that he surpassed SSJ2 all the way up to SSJB, fighting evenly with the transformation in the beginning of Episode 57 before his immorality came into effect and was shown to the audience.
>Still lost with SSB Goku's help
You're missing the point. Trunks still fought and held his ground against a Zamasu who could fight on par with SSJB Goku. If Zamasu wanted him dead, he should have been able to do it and COULD have. But Toei doesn't give a fuck.
>big difference between "couldn't" and "didn't"
Yeah, Vegito couldn't and didn't defeat/injure Merged Zamasu, Trunks did. Even before getting the source of power from everyone in the surrounding area and world. He managed to slice twice into his chest. Realistically, Merged Zamasu, again, SHOULD have been able to kill Trunks.
>-see this post saying Toyotaro isn't perfect but better than toei because some reasons
>+Holy shit, I guess the manga is perfect in every way huh?
So basically Zamasu would've won had he just killed Trunks straight-up.
Zamasu fought "evenly" witg SSB only because SSR Black was also there in the battlefield.
But alone? He wouldn't stand a chance.
> Trunks still fought and held his ground against a Zamasu who could fight on par with SSJB Goku
> Trunks did.
Implying Trunks defeated Zamasu, when he in fact didn't.
Also you're not considering:
- how flawed fusion was backfiring and taking a toll on Zamasu's body
- Vegetto's recent beatdown
- Trunks using borrowed power
No one is bragging you piece of shit.
also see >>151524809
Black was trial running against someone who's had a trillion fights to hone his skills and also fights like his opponent has done him a great personal wrong. Obviously Vegeta was going to hold the advantage from sheer experience. Zamasu may be hailed as a fighting prodigy but he's never used Goku's body to fight someone on his level before.
Are there any really good figurines for Black Goku available online?
I'm collecting a shelf of all the Dragonball Villains
Either base or Rose is fine, and price isn't too much of a concern
>Black was trial running
Or does he actually say that?
> Zamasu may be hailed as a fighting prodigy but he's never used Goku's body to fight someone on his level before
Well he was already far stronger than SS2 Trunks (SS3 Goku-tier) as BASE form, so SS2 Vegeta shouldn't be a problem
>Also the manga never mentioned Trunks was weaker and malnourished. Nice headcanon
They fucking showed they barely have any food to eat, you fucking retard. They even have to eat dog food to survive. And as early DB showed us, being hungry makes you weaker in battle.
Mai husbando TORANKUSU
I feel like "nice headcanon" has become a buzzphrase for retards who can't make extrapolations by themselves and instead need Toriyama to sit down across from them and spoonfeed them every single minute detail.
In this case it's actuallytrue.
Black trial-running? Yea ok...where did he get that idea from?
> Well he was already far stronger than SS2 Trunks (SS3 Goku-tier) as BASE form, so SS2 Vegeta shouldn't be a problem
What kind of trial run is that?
>Compare it to Zamasu surpassing SSJ2 all the way to SSJB.
>Compare it to SS2 Trunks managing his own against SSJR Black and Zamasu.
>Compare it to Trunks being able to defeat Merged Zamasu despite the fact that Vegito's most powerful attacks couldn't.
>some people defending toei power scale
>Anyone trying to defend this shit is legitly retarded or shitposter
> Tfw the manga is still going to have Vegetto's potara limit, and Trunks saving the day
There's no escaping it
>No more (You)'s
What's the point in shitposting anymore?
Yes, be a good goy and do what he says
>You'd have him beat Zamasu without an asspull
SSB Fused Trunks
Except Trunks being SS3 tier is the first Toyotaro inconsistency. Trunks isn't so strong, Toyotaro fucked up once, that's all.
Healthy SS2 Trunks is strongt enough to force Black turns SS, malnourished SS2 Trunks is weaker than base Black. Both, SS2 Trunks and SS Black are weaker than SS2 Vegeta, really simple.
>Trunks isn't so strong, Toyotaro fucked up only once
Which in turn fucked up Black. Because him being beat up by SS Vegeta makes Black far weaker than what we are led to believe.
This also takes away the tension from the arc as well.
This one mistake created several.
Last chapter states Trunks forced Black to transform some times, and the chapter before Trunks was defeated by base Black was stated how precarious Trunks and Mai's situation is.
You mean like...
1º Was SS2 Vegeta
2º You are mixing inconsistencies and """mistakes"""
3º Since ningens with god power/ki/whatever in base state isn't a thing in the manga (and Black isn't in his god body anymore so obviously can't use god ki without use SSR) base Black can't be god tier, same as Goku and Vegeta.
base Goku (manga) < base Goku (anime) < SSB Goku (manga) = SSB Goku (anime)
base Black (manga) < base Black (anime) < SSR Black (manga) = SSR Black (anime)
Then explain why the manga said SS2 Trunks is at least as strong as SS3 Goku (Goku used tapped into his god power for a sec)...
When SS2 Vegeta can toy around with SS Black. When Black is supposed to be much stronger than Trunks, and SS3 Goku stronger than SS2 Vegeta, this doesn't make any sense.
It just makes the villain look like a pushover for no reason
Toyo is the master of removing tension
Reminder the official name (before a proper translation)
>超サイヤ人 怒り (Suupa Saiyajin Ikari)
>"Super Saiyan Anger"
>then explain this already explained!
>Haha! You are stronger than me? Then let me become several times stronger by Toei magic to kick your ass!
It is probably to make SSR's reveal better. Base Black had no problems with SSB Vegeta so it made no sense to go Rose outside of "muh smug" in the anime.
With Manga, it would make more sense for Black to be a whipping boy then pull out SSR/God Ki to turn the tables.
Either way the powerscaling went to utter shit when SSR and not-Broli Trunks happened.
It's called build-up, you idiot. Toyo is allowing Vegeta to beat Black down now because it's necessary, and the tables will be turned on Vegeta next chapter. Why do you think Trunks expressed concern and told Goku that Black needed to be finished off IMMEDIATELY before things get worse? Because it will be.
Also reminder SSA is a new form to allow the user go through both SS "subforms" (SS grade 2/3 and SS2/3), a new form above them
SS -> muscles on -> muscles off -> sparks on -> sparks off -> SS Anger
>Ikari no Will Power
Mark my words, there will be no fusion in the manga. I really don't see why.
Black is currently weaker than them and there is no way he could get stronger than them. Equal as Goku at best.
Things will get resolved differently, but the ending will be the same.
> it's explained by admitting Toyo fucked up
> plus hungry trunks makes him drop from SS3+ to much lower than SS2, which the manga never said anything about
Funny because what you replied with was already addressed
>I really don't see why.
So the fusion nerf can be introduced in the manga canon.
>Black is currently weaker than them and there is no way he could get stronger than them.
He is probably stronger than them in Rose considering Trunk's concern about Black.
Black was defeated before go Rosé in the anime too, anon.
Black fights Goku/Vegeta -> Black lose -> Black comes back as SSR
The only difference is... you know, manga-Black have a proper zenkai and anime-Black have cheated aspull zenkais every minute (also Black reached his own version of SSB fighting a SSB in the manga, not a simple SS2 as anime-Black)
isnt it the opposite though, quickly pop on the earings annhilate a foe real quick or seriously injury them then if the bad guy needs to be finished off just put the earings back on.
>It's called build-up lol
Imagine if the Freeza Saga started off with a much weaker Freeza that was humiliated by the protagonists.
And THEN he gets stronger. Doesn't sound exciting does it?
what would the nerf of the fusion bring to the story ?
Why would Black be stronger when he's in SSR ? It's his equivalent of SSB. Not a different form.
I don't even see how they could introduce SSI Trunks
Also they should have called Trunks form Burning Super Saiyan
He most likely had the Time Ring before giving it to Future Zamasu after getting the body. Remember, Goku Black was the Zamasu who started everything and recruited Future Zamasu.
They'd have no energy to fuse again if they defuse because of using up a large amount of energy like they did against merged Zamasu.
They only fuse against an enemy that is far above their level and there are no rules to prohibit it.
>It is probably to make SSR's reveal better
What's wrong with:
1. SS2 Goku vs Base Black = tie
2. SSR Black = wrecks everyone
It's better than:
1. First Black fight = Black gets humiliated
2. SSR Black = wrecks everyone? Or is on par?
It's the same, he just gave his ring to Future Zamasu for some reason. His appearance in the Future Buu Saga flashback shows that he comes from another timeline and is a ring user.
>what would the nerf of the fusion bring to the story ?
If it's in the manga you'll have to ask Toriyama that.
>Why would Black be stronger when he's in SSR ? It's his equivalent of SSB. Not a different form.
Black is already powerful enough to toy around with a SSJ2 Trunks who is equal to SSJ3 Goku, he was putting up a small fight against SSJ2 Vegeta as regular SSJ.
He is going to become a threat once he gets his Rose form.
>He is probably stronger than them in Rose
That's a ridiculous jump though
SS2 Vegeta > SS Black
SSB Vegeta <<< SSR Black (?)
They'd probably be equal at the most. But then again, we also have SSB Goku there...
>Black was defeated before go Rosé in the anime
He was being slightly pushed back, put on hia smug face, then went SSR and described how beautiful he was.
Not even close to the humiliation that gave Vegeta gave him in the manga
Future Goku was shown in Otherworld with HIS body.
The first time the main characters fight Black, he gets destroyed.
Sure we had Trunks fight him, but we all knew Trunks doesn't complete to Goku or Vegeta.
It's not the same because one is "oh well, Goku/Vegeta can deal with him" to "oh shit, Goku/Vegeta can't even touch him"
Black was only ever that tremendously smug because he had that broken zenkai with him, knowing that each time he was hit, he would become stronger.
Take away that, what do you have? Manga Black. It's the same vice versa.
You're an idiot. Black was overwhelmed by Vegeta and understandably so. This was Vegeta in his Blue form we're talking about. Would you rather have SS Black been able to defeat Blue Vegeta for whatever reason?
SSJ3 always was a shit transformation. It's just another USSJ.
Goku wasn't completely serious while Trunks gave its best.
I think SSJ Goku > SSJ3 Goku in a fight honestly, yeah SSJ3 gives more power, but it's far more exhausting ahd difficult to control.
Who knew that Black would be so divisive among the fanbase now?
Your post did not a single thing to disprove the fact that a x400 multiplier is fucking bigger than a x50 multiplier. You are retarded and should stop entering discussions that are clearly above your pay grade.
>it's explained by admitting Toyo fucked up
Yeah, so? Toyotaro fucked up once, that's true. Is SS2 Trunks SS3 Goku tier? He's not, that was bullshit. Next question?
> the manga never said anything about
See >>151526527 you cunt
>manga states: Trunks fighted SS Black in the past
>manga states: recently Trunks barely had any food to eat
>manga states: recently Trunks was defeated by base Black
Are you too retarded to understand how "less food" means "worse health" and "worse health" mean "low strenght"? Also >>151527536
There's two options:
· Malnourished Trunks is weaker than healthy Trunks
Stop being retarded
Thanks for reminding how this community is pure cancer.
SSJ3 is a supercharged SSJ, Goku has a better control of the SSJ, that's why he doesn't use SSJ3 much anymore. There is nothing more to explain.
Reminder that SSJ Goku as stronger than USSJ Vegeta because of the perfect mastery of the form.
SSJ3 gives more raw power, but SSJ is much more reliable and useful.
>It's called build-up, you idiot
Then it's very poor build-up. Freeza had a fantastic build-up, Cell had a fantastic build-up, even Buu had a better build-up than Black in the manga. Now, what did they all have in common? They were an imposing threat, they were presented as severely dangerous enemies that seemed nigh-insurmountable. That's why they're all so memorable.
You compare that to treatment Black has received from Toyo and it's more akin to Fairy Tail writing. He spends a decent amount of time hyping up an antagonist, but they can never back it up when push comes to shove. This is not good writing, and it does a disservice the narrative of the arc.
And SS2 Trunks (rage-induced) still gets wrecked by Base form Black, when he assumes that Mai was killed.
Maybe Trunks was stronger, but assuming that he was THAT mich stronger is a stretch.
And if that's the case, the manga didna terrible job explaining that. Because it didn't. It seems like you're just doing guesswork to fill-in the plotholes.
>Cell had a fantastic build up
No, he didn't. He had the same exact build up as Black in the manga does currently. Got man handled by Vegeta and eventually achieved his perfect form, only with Cell, Vegeta foolishly allowed that to happen.
When you pull bullshit out of your ass, yes, anon, that's called headcanon.
If you aren't sure about something specify it before you post drivel. It isn't hard.
SS3 gives a lot more than just raw power. The stamina drain is much more severe, but it's not like USS. It gives you a shitload more power and speed and its main purpose is the utilization of Ki, so your shit is overall stronger. SS is easier to control in that you can reduce its stamina drain to basically nothing, but SS3 still gives overall more power, speed, and Ki attack strength.
Also note the peasant sized 1280x720 monitor.
That's what happen when you aren't SSB tier and fights a SSB, too bad anime-Black fighted a SS2 to reach his Rose form... for what purpose (now that I think about it)?
Both Blacks are defeated by a SS2 to obtain his Rose form, but /ourguy/ maked Vegeta turns Blue to defeat Black. Manga makes more sense since they are more decided to save Trunks' future and defeat Black, also Black obtains his SSB form fighting a SSB, not only a SS2. Based Toyotaro wins again
After Cell's reveal he had a close fight with Piccolo, then absorbed 17 and manhandled everyone there.
And with 18 around, the tension was there that he would achieve his Perfect form at anytime.
This is what I'm talking about. You're all so fucking stupid that you think if something isn't EXPLICITLY stated, in exact words, while the character is fucking staring into the camera, it's headcanon. You need everything shoved down your gullets in a goddamn spoon, otherwise you get triggered and start screaming about headcanon.
>He had the same exact build up as Black in the manga does currently.
That isn't true. He was already established as a viable threat through his predatory hunts against the androids and afterwards demolishing Piccolo, who was stronger than Vegeta before he emerged from the ROSAT.
Black in the manga doesn't have something like that, since the only person he's superior against is Trunks, someone far below Goku and Vegeta at this point.
And there's also the fact that there was still months upon months of story to go through in the Cell arc. Whereas the Black arc in the manga likely only has one chapter to go. There's simply too much ground to cover for Black to achieve any real redemption before fusing with Zamasu, even after he achieves SSR.
Cell hid in the shadows and preyed on humans to attain strength that he didn't already have. He was cowardly and defeated a Piccolo that was in the middle of battling 17. Once Trunks and Vegeta appeared, even in his second form, it all proved to be no avail. It was all due to circumstance that Cell was pinned up against people weaker than him before the Saiyans arrived; it was no tension. Had Black ventured into the past without Goku and Vegeta there, he would have easily manhandled pretty much everyone there for the obvious exception of Whis and Beerus. Like I said, it was all due to circumstances that the two (being Cell and Black) were put in.