Who was in the wrong?

>>150888162
Having seen the Berserk anime i have to say Miyazaki was right.

I think both sides have valid perspectives on the issue, and I think miyazaki is a crabby old fart, but I'm glad he made the point he did. People do not consider the far-reaching societal implications of their work. The fact that these programmers feel that they have done absolutely nothing wrong is an example of how inconsiderate and narrow minded they are being in this.

>>150888162
Miyazaki is preventing anime advancements, CG will end up looking just as good if not better than hand drawn animation and with better framerates as well and Miyazaki is delaying it with this kind of bullshit stunt.

>>150888243
This. 3DCG is just bad, it always looks like trash. There's no good argument for it unless your a studio trying to save some cash, which is understandable at least. I don't see how anyone else can defend it though.

>Trying to get machines to draw like humans do
>Trying to industrialize art
Miyazaki sounded like an senile old man but he was right.

>>150888281
Please, it will only look better or the same when studios start putting more money into cg than they did into artists. Even then, you don't have any reason to be so sure.

>>150888281
Maybe, but that is still quite a ways off. They showed him an application that currently has the singular realistic use of "horror movie material," and expected an elderly children's cartoonist to think it was great.

That's extremely narrow minded of them, and Miyazaka was right to grill them for it. Based crabby old grandpa.

>>150888318
folks were saying art was already properly industrialized as far back as walter benjamin.
The funny thing about grandpa is he hated his grandpa, a generation knows only its own

That CG sure was shit but Miyazaki had no reason to got butthurt. If you don't like it and think it's shit just say so, why the fuck you are bringing your disabled friend to the conversation?

>>150888412
i actually get why

Part of their argument for why its good is because IT DOESN'T KNOW WHAT PAIN IS AND THATS GOOD

And he's like pain is important you little shits. This shit is dehumanizing.

>>150888412
if you watched the documentary you'd know that he's haunted by the fact his friends are all dying around him. For him to be sensitive on that subject at the time is purely justified.

>>150888162
>Try to get computer to move a body
>Does it in the most inhumane way
Miyazaki was right in stating that such movements does not relate to any human at all, making it utterly pointless. The point about AI 'making' art that doesn't feel art is good food for thought though

Why did they show this to him anyway? Something about a caterpillar film or whatever?

>>150888431
Their reasoning wasn't good but Miyazaki pretty much portrayed an old man yelling at clouds. Is it anymore dehuminazing than other technological devices? He's overreacting.

>>150888512
I mean from his position i think it is. Especially when his friends are dying all around him and shit.

>>150888431
>This shit is dehumanizing.

Exactly. This isn't something that's unique to AI, either, for example. The AI aspect makes this seem like it's a "new" concept, but to me it's not. The exact same thing could be said about most "horror" films in general. And Miyazaki is right. "Dehumanizing" is the right word to use here.

This is Miyazaki. Look at his work. This is somewhat like showing SAWII stuff to Mr. Rogers and then being bewildered and offended when he gets upset about it.

>>150888162
Miyazaki, even if he expresses in the most shitty way.

This was like a failed AI experiment, which produces complete garbage. The only excuse they found was to use it for a zombie. But even if that kind doesn't fail, it looks shitty. You don't even have to look at full CGI anime. Newer shows use full CGI characters for backgrounds, like in Re Zero, or that one battle harem I don't even recall the name of. Their movements looked procedural, and shit.

It's at least 10 years too early to replace human animators.

>>150888442
>>150888523
So he was just projecting his own insecurities?

>>150888512
>an old man yelling at clouds

Are you that same guy from the earlier thread?

>>150888533
it's his opinion and he's allowed to have it.
The documentary was good too, he finally puts away his ego and picks up the tablet and does cg art.

>>150888442
>>150888523
Oh, I can agree on that makes sense.

>>150888243
>The movie ones
>Oh fuck, how could they fuck this up, tier-SSS OST, the drawn part are gorgeous, oh what the fuck
>The new anime series
>They took a masterpiece and made it unwatchable, not even the story could carry it
>Is fucking two seasons
>Manga is taking a break because of this shit
Agree. Miyazaki is right.

>>150888533
>Being compelled to view human life as valuable, and rejecting things that encourage the opposite, means you're insecure

Oh boy

>>150888431
Dehumanizing who? The AI? Why is everyone acting like a retard in this thread?

>>150888162
Miyazaki is clearly fucking terrified that the habits and work of his generation are slowly beginning to be replaced by methods he's unfamiliar with.

He's not even good at hiding it: that line about his supposed cripple friend is just a desperate attempt discouragement. He doesn't even try to look deeper into it. Can't even tell why the fuck his opinion matters here.
He's a good storyteller but not that good.

3d shit right now isn't much to look at and it's moving slowly thanks to the japs being not the most innovative motherfuckers out there, but it's going to get more and more natural and easier/cheaper/better to use once they get into the habit. You won't need 100 people and a fortune in art supplies to make anime, just a bunch of computers and a few programs, some even being free.

>>150888533
If anything, he was saying the zombie's movement can't have anything projected onto it unlike say his friends' movement

>>150888412
When you are the top dog in the industry, and you are so fucking old you can die from falling on a banana peel, he has 0 needs to tip toe around his peers.

>>150888546
Threads were going back to back in the last few days, so probably no.

>>150888570
Imagine showing such animations to a child, for example. It is easy to understand that this technology would upset them profoundly. And that obviously horrific aspect of this technology is not at all being considered by these individuals. They are only looking at it in its most positive light, and in that narrow sightedness are overlooking the obvious. Gramps was right to reprimand them.

>>150888548
>/a/ accepting the truth
You are like an old man yelling at clouds faggot. Pointless, wasting time and annoying. Post more false quote images instead.

>>150888622
wtf are you rambling about you queef?

>>150888613
It seems unlikely two different people would gravitate to the same exact phrase by coincidence.

>>150888622
>old man yelling at clouds

And there it is again. Where is this phrase coming from all of a sudden? It's like I'm watching CNN in here.

>>150888618
What horrific aspects are you even talking about?

>>150888570
Probably meant that the whole thing is extremely soulless. Is a program doing all the work, and is not like the programmers had in mind to make a program about making dreams come true, is just some dodgy garbage CG animation.

>>150888546
I have been to three of these threads the last week. And I highly suspect is some Miyazaki/old geezer hater using that phrase over and over again without knowing what the hell it means.

>>150888657
Are you playing dumb, or do you really not understand, even after all that I've said?

>>150888653
Wait, you don't know where it comes from? It's a Simpsons reference.

>>150888664
>Is a program doing all the work

I fail to see the issue with this. Technology has been doing a lot of work for us for centuries

>>150888703
You said nothing of value, mentioned unspecified horrific aspects. Give me some examples.

>>150888531
this anon gets it

The guy is getting all philosophical over a literal tech demo and the truly sad thing here is that some of you are buying his bullshit.

>>150888704
>An obscure line in an episode from 20 years ago

It's still not like you can say that that phrase is something that people in general have in their active memory. It's quite clearly being intentionally forced, which I find very strange. That someone would be that committed to slandering miyazaki in that way over this subject.

>>150888721
and so humanity caused its own redundancy.

>>150888243
This the presentation was garbage to begin with. If you want to do it, do it right like the Doraemon Stand By Me movie. Half assed attempt like this deserves harsh criticism.

>>150888731
>You said nothing of value
Either that or your cognitive capacities in regards to this subject are lacking for whichever reason. One of the two.

>Give me some examples.

>>>150888618
>Imagine showing such animations to a child, for example. It is easy to understand that this technology would upset them profoundly. And that obviously horrific aspect of this technology is not at all being considered by these individuals.

Furthermore, it has, for decades, already well established in our society the potentially dark aspects that AI can have on our society and civilization. You're playing dumb intentionally. You should be aware of these obvious things, and should not require to demand having them spelled out to you.

>>150888760
How philosophical, forgive me if I don't cry since I also fail to see any issue with that. We control these machines, why should we feel threatened by them unless you think your only worth is doing something that can easily be replaced by one.

>>150888748
>slandering miyazaki
Honestly, nobody cares. People use this phrase because it fits the situation.

>>150888162
i know nothing of this guy, besides what wiki says and the couple hate meme that are around. isnt he supposed to be some sort of anime hero? did he do a change of view of just joking around or what

>>150888809
>he doesn't know that Miyazaki saved anime

jesus

>>150888794
>Honestly, nobody cares.

They apparently care enough to repeatedly come to these threads and attack him on a personal level for whatever reason. Otherwise it seems quite impossible for that specific, key phrase to be popping up all of a sudden at the frequency which it is.

You don't see the people arguing the opposite making personal attacks on the animators, for their age/appearance/etc, for example.

>>150888809
Are you 12 or something?

>>150888787
>Furthermore, it has, for decades, already well established in our society the potentially dark aspects that AI can have on our society and civilization
Established by who? Hollywood? Terminator is not real, son. Get off your moral high horse.

I get that Miyazaki feels threatened by the idea of him being replaced by a machine, but if he had any clue on how artificial intelligence can and cannot do he wouldn't make such idiotic remarks. The funny thing is that AI along with many scientific and technological advancements could one day fix afflictions such as the one his friend is suffering. The old fart is so narrow minded.

Hidetaka Miyazaki would have loved it.

>>150888790
>We control these machines

for how long?
witnessing the current technical development, artificial intelligence that becomes self aware isn't science fiction anymore.
so, if we're "lucky" we end up like complete degenerates like the humans in wall-e or we get exterminated because our existence is obsolete.

>>150888841
>Established by who? Hollywood? Terminator is not real, son. Get off your moral high horse.

>Calling me "son"
>Then accusing ME of being self righteous

Yes, I'm aware it's not real. However, that's not the point here. What is significant about it is that the general concept has already been recognized by our society in a significant way, for a long time. It's been used heavily in sci-fi entertainment, but that does not by default then mean that the concept has no real relevance. Quite to the contrary, actually. In this case, I would argue that it is entertaining precisely because it is so feasible.

>>150888836
>>150888821
im not a jap, im a casual manga reader and nothing more. if you can give infos about this guy i would appreciate it, otherwise kys

>>150888891
As feasible as the world ending in 2012 or zombies rising from their graves.

>>150888897
>hurr I'm too lazy to read
>I don't want to lurk
>durr pls spoonfeed or kys

Guess I'll just have to go and kiss my sister then, nerd.

>>150888162
I kind of get what he's trying to say but it's way too much of an overreaction.

>>150888897
>literally the best known anime director to western audiences literally fucking famous LITERALLY ACADEMY AWARD WINNING

Holy shit anon

>>150888919
and there i thought /b/ was full of inbreeds, guess i found the potato award winning board

>>150888930
This, it sounded like someone from 4chan would say.

>>150888917
Not an argument.

There are numerous ways that AI can be recognized as a potentially destructive influence on our civilization, society, and quality of life. It does not have to necessarily be "evil sentient robots taking over the world by force."

>>150888954
Luddite scum

>>150888954
>There are numerous ways that AI can be recognized as a potentially destructive influence on our civilization, society, and quality of life.
Such as?

>>150888941
There is absolutely nothing immoral about having passionate and frequent sexual relations with your kawaii imouto. Only Americans make a big deal about it.

>>150888934
please list more japs that omg like everyone knows

>throw shit on wall
>call it art
Literally what the CGI guy is doing.

>>150888965
We can see here, for example, as Miyazaki points out, that we are placing technological creativity above human creativity, even when it is clearly and objectively worse (at least at this point in time).

Does it matter if a machine can do it better, if that then decreases the value society and the individual places on human life, and if that then decreases the quality of the individual's life in society?

I'm somewhat surprised that I'm having to spell all this out. Like I said I thought it was obvious, but I guess I can see why these ideas would not necessarily be self apparent to everybody. At any rate, I'm glad Miyazaki spoke his mind and brought these issues to light here. He's a good man.

>>150888996
Did he ever call it art?

>>150889028
He claims that it has artistic value. Which is not literal, but this word doesn't mean anything on 4chan.

>>150888864
The day we're able to make self-aware artifical consciousness is a time when we'll already be able to manipulate conciousness as we please

Folks seem to approach the topic of artificial intelligence the same way they approach making dinosaurs with frog genes

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>3D animation will never be anywhere near as good as traditional ani-

>>150888985
Kojima Hideo
Meiji Tenno

>>150889056
>Everything will work out fine because I say it will
>There is absolutely no way any of this can go wrong
>There is no need for caution or reservation whatsoever

This isn't what you're saying, right?

>>150888253
except they have done absolutely nothing wrong, and have nothing to apologize for

>>150889062
that's not good tho
are you the sort of guy that prioritizes texture over art style in vidya

>>150889050
Wasn't the whole point of this to build a machine that can draw pictures like humans? I mean technically printers do that already. Obviously he meant something else but we don't really know their exact goal do we?

>>150889088
Why are you so paranoid?

>>150888281
>CG will end up

No. CG already looks better than animation. The problem is that CG is expensive as fuck and takes longer per frame to produce than most consumer grade animes.

CG can look amazing. We've had relatively decent CG since the early 00s with shit like Spirits Within but the cost is extremely restrictive to movies and games where you can spend $100 million on 1 hour of CGI.

In an anime? Fuck no. There's no fucking chance anime CGI will look good. The best you'll get is the filters you place over and behind frames to make it look more vibrant.

civilization itself is unnatural.

from a biological point of view we should still roam the forests with spear and bow.
our accumulated "knowledge" is what advanced us way too fast, neglecting too many important factos and will ultimately lead to our demise.
we "overlived" ourselves.

science is full of romantics.

now pls go ahead and give me all your (yous) and (retards).

>>150889070
nope, i dont know them. am i subhuman?

>>150889018
>Does it matter if a machine can do it better, if that then decreases the value society and the individual places on human life, and if that then decreases the quality of the individual's life in society?

Uh, of course it matters? Why wouldn't we use if it has less margin of error and better results in an acceptable price/performance ratio?

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Are our new robotic overlords ready yet?

>>150889105
I agree with (you).

Technology is not improving the quality of life for humanity as a whole. If you look, it is actually making things worse for most people.

>>150889097
because control is an illusion.

people who split the atom never imagined the nuclear bomb to happen.
"pandora's box" is more than an ancient anecdote.

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>>150889062
post QUALITY

>>150889095
At least https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procedural_animation

>>150889134
But that's not true at all.

>>150889142
Relax, AI isn't going to start a revolt any soon.

>>150889088
Well, a bit of a paraphrase, but I suppose that about covers it.
In any case, if I can summarize your position
>everything will go horrible wrong because I say it will
>there is absolutely no way everything will be pretty chill
>there's no need for relaxation or enthusiasm whatsoever

Unlike you, I watch Chinese cartoons for entertainment.

>>150889134
Get off the internet you hypocrite.

>>150888748
It's definitely not obscure. A crop of the phrase from the episode was even a popular meme for a while. Your autistic rage is misplaced.

>>150889159
> t. Robot

>>150889142
>people who split the atom never imagined the nuclear bomb to happen
Then again, the atom bomb also did not spontaneously generate itself, did it?
It's something we've a great deal of control over, isn't it?

>>150888162
God he's a bitter old cunt.

>>150889169
There are positive and negative aspects of it, like I've said. However, and to repeat myself again, if you look at the quality of life that your average individual has in human civilization at this point in our history, it is as low as it has ever been.

Consider, for example, that, from a socio-economic point of view, you and I are in the top 10% of the global population for measurable quality of life. Do you live a good life? Are you a happy, fulfilled person, at peace with your existence?

>>150889209
Yes, I'm sure life was amazing in the stone age.

Miyazaki has a very developed (and specific) definition of what art is and what artistry represents for him. There's a reason all his works share similar themes and are made along similar lines. His anecdote about his disabled friend is evidence of the human-centric (and generally life or nature-related) viewpoint from which he approaches both the process of making art and the end product. Also, he's old as fuck and they showed him something weird.

>>150889176
>rage
>projecting

>autism
Alright you've got me there. I can't argue with that desu

>>150888985
Gojira.

>>150889191
>It's something we've a great deal of control over, isn't it?

there is your fallacy.
you assume that humans are highly rational beings not driven by primal urges whatsoever.
that is why something like the a-bomb was created in the first place.
the fear for total atomic annihilation during the 50s and 60s was no fiction and it almost escalated more than one time.

>>150889220
>Caveman, year 100,000bc
>4 hour workday
>Good food
>Happy families
>mental illness is unheard of
>clean, pristine environment

>Shit sweeper in india, 2016 annodomini
>16 hour workday
>everybody is stressed the fuck out all the time
>use the morning smog as your pillow
>live longer because of antibiotics but miserable and impoverished the entire time

Mmm, it's a hard choice, but I'd pick caveman.

>>150889294
You're more than welcome to live like that, now get off the internet and never leave your cave.

>>150888318
Art was industrialised when tools of the trade became mass produced.

>>150889294
>Caveman
>catch infection, die

>modern times
>catch infection, can't afford healthcare, blame the juice, die

>>150889294
>be medival peasant
>get cut
>it gets infected
>die

>>150889289
Wasn't Miyazaki complaining about the whole dehumanization thing? Isn't humanity being responsible for developing nuclear weapons, kind of humane? Without our involvement it would have never happened.

You should link all the previous threads and read them before you answer to not repeat your dumb opinions.

>>150888337
>when studios start putting more money into cg than they did into artists
Who do you think produces CG? Janitors? PR? Accountants?

>>150889289
By a team of scientists doing day-to-day busy work, approved by military staff officers doing day to day busywork, dropped by overworked pilots but who were very excited to be given a task other than their daily activities.
>the fear for total atomic annihilation during the 50s and 60s was no fiction and it almost escalated more than one time.
so sayeth a hardass motherfucker
>Even if the U.S. atom bombs were so powerful that, when dropped on China, they would make a hole right through the earth, or even blow it up, that would hardly mean anything to the universe as a whole, though it might be a major event for the solar system.

P A P E R T I G E R
A
P
E
R

T
I
G
E
R

>>150889304
If there was a fully functioning prehistoric civilization wiling to embrace me as one of their own and fully bring me up to speed with all the skills and cultural stuff I'd need, it would be a tempting choice, for sure. Haven't you ever seen how happy the Amish are? Haven't you ever thought for one second "maybe they were on to something?"

You know? There's no need to be this upset about this. Your emotional reactions indicate some kind of denial about something or another.

>>150888618
>Imagine showing such animations to a child, for example. It is easy to understand that this technology would upset them profoundly. And that obviously horrific aspect of this technology is not at all being considered by these individuals. They are only looking at it in its most positive light, and in that narrow sightedness are overlooking the obvious.
Idiots said the same thing about photography and then about film cameras. People like are a dime a dozen and do nothing but get in the way of progress. Thanks.

>>150889376
Then stop being a hypocrite and go join the Amish.

>>150889294
>mental illness is unheard of
I should think so, given that getting a medical diagnosis was also unheard of.

>4 hours work
I'm not sure which is worse, 8 hours of drudgery or 4 hours that may very well kill you.

>>150888748
>An obscure line in an episode from 20 years ago
You're clearly still a teenager.

>>150889322

Majority of the world still does that. Infact it's even more likely today because in the primeval era of man there was no metal to catch tetanus and due to lack of human proximity a disease tended to die off in a single generation.

The only reason shit like Black Death spread was proximity. Same as ebola. High lethality diseases didn't really exist back when survival was hunting and fishing based because they didn't survive the entire process.

Most deaths were caused by botulism from ill cured and cooked foods.

>>150889294
this.

a hard life must not necessarily be a bad life.

it matters how good you lived and not how long you kept your miserable existance going because degenerate society milks you dry.

>>150889379
>false analogy

>all progress is only good and there are no negative consequences from it

I bet body dismorphia didn't exist like it does today prior to photography. Maybe they had a point.

Anyone saying that this looks like the future has shit taste. The animation sucks. It looks like 90's John Carpenter, but without any heart. Miyazaki is right to bitch, and they are wrong to think their work presentable.

>>150888243
was that made by vietnamese interns?

>>150889386
>just continuing to namecall and repeat refuted arguments

I've been very polite with you despite your rude and childish behavior so far. I think I'll end this here. Have a good one bud

>>150889432
It didn't exist that much even after photography, actually. The Soviet Union, the last european country to not really give a shit, you fucked anyone who would have you, and generally anyone would have you unless you weren't just ugly, but like really ugly. Like fear that your ugly will transfer via fucking.

>>150889495
Stay hypocritical for but just remember that these lads are waiting for you should you decide to actually go through with your bullshit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncontacted_peoples

>>150889432
>people couldn't see what they looked like before photography

>>150889536

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncontacted_peoples

every civilization will collapse at one point in history.
it is inevitable that we or our children may end up like this again or rather the few who will actually survive.
nature will ultimately rid itself of degeneracy.

>>150889294
>caveman, year 100k BC
>constantly have to hunt for food
>constantly have to protect myself from other cavemen and tribes that want to kill me
>constantly have to protect myself from every goddamn beast roaming around that wants to eat me
>controlling fire is still kind of a new thing so let's not get ahead of ourselves
>wheels won't be invented for another ~96k years
>bronze age still ~97k years away
>writing also won't be invented for another ~97k years
>barely have any language at all
>agriculture? what's agriculture?
>extremely high mortality during infancy and adolescence
>average life expectancy of 40-50 years, assuming you survived adolescence
Livin' the dream

>>150888162
Slowking here, link to video?

>>150889585
It's not that they could see themselves, but that they could not see each other in the context given by photography.
I of course don't agree with this proposition, I'm just explaining what the guy probably meant.

>hello there look we made this thing called agriculture, with this you don't need to risk your life hunting dangerous animals
>I HAVE A FRIEND WHO IS A HUNTER, I MEET HIM EVERY DAY, NOT EVERY DAY NOW, WHO IS WEAK AND CAN'T EVEN KILL A RABBIT. FRANKLY SPEAKING LOOKING AT THIS PLANTATION DISGUSTS ME AND IS AN INSULT. THE PEOPLE WHO MAKE THIS ARE DISGUSTING AND HAVE NO CONCEPT OF WHAT A HUNTER FEEL

>>150889636
Don't be lazy. You have all the information you need and then some to find it on your own. Do it. It'll take you a few minutes of effort.

>>150888162
Who is the guy on top? I can't find any link about "ai-created anime"

>>150889686
>He can't even recognize

You need to just read the thread, newfriend.

>>150889686
That's Hideo Kojima.

>>150889611
>salary worker 20xx ad
>constantly have to work for mortgage
>constantly have to obey the government
>constantly have to protect family from degenerate influence
>constantly have to stay in line or risk lawsuit or worse
>work my ass off so my wife can cheat on me and my children treat me like absolute shit
>divorce
>lose more than half my income because laws are fucked
>have to wageslave until death
>die sick and alone of old age

livin' the dream

>>150888162
The old triggered faggot who can't look at art objectively. The very fact that he was so horrified by it shows that they are in the right track with their vegetable zombie thing.

>>150888412
But we DO have a reason to get butthurt because 3DCG is taking over and ruining anime. Today Berserk, tommorrow something else!

>>150889798
>The very fact that he was so horrified by it shows that they are in the right track with their vegetable zombie thing.

Why is that? You could just as easily state the opposite.

>>150889787
>transcendence of mankind still ~50k years away
This is the worst part.

>>150889665
fuck that shit, I'm going to find me an elf thread instead.

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>>150888162
Based Miyazaki, otaku on suicide watch

>>150889826
It shows how deeply unsettled he was by its movement. And that's what they were doing for. They just didn't think he'd be a faggot about it.

I hate bringing Evangelion into /a/ threads because of it's notorious reputation but seriously compare the original series/EoE to the Rebuilds and you can see just how awful and poisonous 3d animation is to the anime industry.

>>150889294
This is the funniest post I've seen on 4chan in a while. You people are delusional

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>>150888162
>there are people in this thread RIGHT NOW who think Miyazaki is just being your average, delusional old man

Miyazaki was in the right. The implications of continuing down that technological path are frightening. Even the way the team uses to excitedly, childishly, obliviously explain their work sounds frightening and lovecraftian. Some pathways aren't productive for humanity to explore.

>>150889827
you'll still have problems

>>150889844
>And that's what they were doing for.

Their intention, as they stated, was to create a program that could animate human movement. In light of that goal, their efforts were clearly a long way from being capable of that. Like Miyazkun said, "I wouldn't want to use this in my work at all." And why would he? Like they said, its only current use is for zombies in the horror genre. It's only current use is to make people uncomfortable by its lack of humanity.

>>150889097
Just because he's paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get him, anon.

>who was in the wrong?
Do you think you're clever? Do you think there is anything humorous about posting the same stupid gay porn quotes repeatedly? I can you see now, sitting in the dark—your fat, greasy face illuminated by the monitor as it glows blue with Yotsuba B—snickering to yourself. "Oh man I'm going to totally troll the shit out of these weeaboo losers!" you'd mutter under your breath as you break the sugar-glue holding your fingers together. "Hayao Miyazaki meme" you type into Reddit, taking care to keep your fingertips from slipping off your oily backlit keyboard, and scroll though until find someone else's work to permanently besmudge with your "epic" post. Content with your plagiarism, you tab back over into 4chan, finally reaching for the mouse that you can only find by feeling for your anime breasts mouse pad, and think up your favorite gay porn quote. Will it be "What was his problem?" No. Too many parties involved with your stolen image. "How does he keep getting away with this?" No. Sam Hyde isn't involved in this, you'd think as a tear drips from your eye. "I've got it! I'll reference the leatherman gymboss scene!" you'd exclaim as your heartrate rises from it's rest of 130bpm to 160. You wouldn't need to type in a captcha, because you've spent your mother's birthday gift money to you on a 4chan pass, so you'd just select your stolen image, type the gay porn quote, and click post. Even now you sit there in your 3 day old cloths smirking every time the favicon for your "epic" little thread glows.

>>150889863
>image.jpg
Quality shitpost

>>150889869
Just to clarify, these dark Lovecraftian pathways that humanity is not meant to go down are in fact ways to cheaply producing shitty-looking anime.

You guys are fucking insane with your heavy-handed declarations, like somehow anime was high art instead of a blatant commercial to sell manga.

>>150889949
>no fun.png

>>150889134
go live in a third world nation for a year and then come back and tell me that

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Why do ppl even try to make anime full CGI. Good CGI animation cost like 1000 times more than hand-drawn shit.

>>150889933
I kekd

>>150889899
>animate human movement
Was this their actual goal? "Human" movement specifically? Or just movement?

>>150889863
Back in his grandfathers day, his sort of thinking was rewarded with a minie ball

>>150889949
>It's not that the larger implications are invalid, it's just that the context is trivial to begin with (because I say so), so any further analysis is pointless and defunct by default

This is a bad argument

>>150889976
>semantics

Yes, human movement. As in "anime." That's why they're showing it to Miyazaki, you silly goon.

>>150889949
well I mean A Tale of Two Cities was a pretty commercial product made to sell periodicals
it's also a great book desu

>>150889965
there are ways of implenting cgi into 2d animation without looking grating,
granted the only animated work that I can recall that pulled that off was prince of egypt.

>>150889914
Paranoia is a cherished facet of American culture. It's our DUTY to be paranoid and mistrusting fucks. And god bless us for it, because FUCK the government. You want the whole world to be like Europe? A bunch of overcivilized sissies?

>>150889111
Not him, but how do you not even know Hideo Kojima? The dude just won some fucking award for just being alive.

>>150890018
It is semantics but it is incredibly important. If they were trying to emulate a human element to their movement, as the old bat said, they failed miserably. Because that isn't how humans move. But if they were just trying to use AI to emulate movement itself and used it on a human model, they did remarkably well in the uncanny valley area. It's legitimately off putting seeing something like this rushing towards you out of the dark.

>>150889899
>Their intention, as they stated, was to create a program that could animate human movement.
At which they failed so hard that Miyazaki essentially accused them of being Josef Mengele.

>>150888162
>This is just our experiment...
>So, what is your goal?
That was more savage than anything Miyazaki said and basically highlighted the real problem with their presentation

>mfw whiteboard just says Deep Learning

>>150889994
You can use any words you want to describe my post, but that doesn't make them true. My point is that there are no greater implications. A program that imitates human movement for entertainment purposes has no implications besides automating work that would normally be done by humans.

>>150889960
third world nations exist because our civilization only works on slavery in the first place.

>minimum wage
>outsourced cheap labor overseas
>corrupt governments financed by mega corps to maintain regional destabilization
>enviromental pollution

our "wealth" can only exist because others pay for it.

>>150889844
>Watching comprehension
They fucking say in the clip that they wasn´t aiming for zombies, but with what they have now, they could maybe apply it to zombies.

>>150889965
>ppl
Are you fucking retarded? Is it too hard to write "people"? Get the fuck back to the youtube comment section.

>>150889105
Here's your (You).

Now piss of to Somalia, they love your kind there.

>>150890081
And he made a very good point. The programmers were completely preoccupied with the technical minutia of what'd they'd made, that they forgot that it still only looks definitively terrible.

>>150890090
>You can use any words you want to describe my post, but that doesn't make them true.
>Words have no meaning

They do. My satire of your argument is accurate.

>My point is that there are no greater implications.
You are incorrect Sir.

>A program that imitates human movement for entertainment purposes has no implications besides automating work that would normally be done by humans.
That is the most immediate aspect of it, yes. However, again, you are incorrect by dismissing wider social implications of the technology. Miyazaki's opinion on the subject will benefit humanity more than yours, and so is superior to yours.

>>150889787
>caveman 100,000 BC
>get mauled by wolves while hunting
>die
>caveman's wife
>fall and cut hand while gathering berries
>get infection
>die
>caveman's baby
>wait for parents to come back
>they never come back
>die

sounds great

>>150890119
>now piss off to somalia

how very uncivilized of you.
also somalia isn't forested enough for me.

>>150889848
Anno being a hack has nothing to do with 3DCG.

>>150890211
why are you repeating yourself?
two can play that game:

>salary worker 20xx
>involved in a fatal car crash
>salary workers wife
>fucks niggers
>gets aids
>everyone has aids
>aids aids aids

>>150890111
Why are u so mean to me?

>>150889134
I agree with this. Progress was a mistake, I actually believe people were happier when they lived in tribes.

>>150890260
now you're just being incoherent. if you hate the modern world so much, you should probably just kill yourself already.

>>150890366
>if you hate the modern world so much, you should probably just kill yourself already

sorry but i'm not a degenerate numale faggot like you so i don't think too highly of suicide.

>>150888281
There is no advancement here. Genetic programming for controlling motion has been studied for years and it's just not good enough (as proven in the shit video). Unless there is some new techniques which they will be publishing (which I doubt), they have contributed literally nothing.

>>150889341
Yes. Those who want to draw but can't.

>>150889092
>that's not good tho
Looks pretty good to me.

>>150890211
The other cavemen would care for the baby or at least use it for nutrition.

CG guy>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>/a/>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>shit>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>miyazaki

>>150889611
Except people evolved to do exactly that. Yes, it was a hard life by modern standards, but I'm sure people felt more fulfilled than your average Joe who has to wageslave for 8 hours a day. Do you think people today would work the shitty jobs that exist today if it wasn't necessary for survival? The difference between hunting and wageslaving is that humans evolved to do the former. The ones who didn't like it simply died, and the ones who found it fulfilling and satisfying didn't. Take a look at running: when you run for long enough the body releases opiods and cannabinoids that make you feel good.
And yes, there were a lot of stress sources, but when people weren't fighting against other tribes or wild animals they lived in a relatively relaxed state. Can you say the same about modern people, who often live in a constant stressful state because they have to worry about finding a job, money (the number one cause of unhappiness, ever), paying the bills and a lot of stupid crap?
Call me delusional if you want, that doesn't change the fact humans today are nothing more than chained beasts, not so different from caged lions in a zoo.

>>150890405

That's because genetic programming is a shit dead end that isn't anywhere near state of the art

They took a shit aborted algorithm and created a shit abortion demo

>>150890405
>>150890686
Even someone who would be young and open to new technology would have been offended by this garbage. Why did they show it Miyazaki? Wanting to piss him off? Career suicide?

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>>150888531
>SAWII
I think Mr. Rogers would probably have liked Selected Ambient Works Volume II.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k15pVegwe-o

>>150890764
Except it looked better than 99% of Ghibli's movies.

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>>150888162
Ajin looks pretty decent at least paused. Of course there's the fact that main charm point of anime is that it looks hand drawn, but you could argue that computer-generated Kyoani flarefest that are often praised nowadays look less hand-drawn than anime used to. I think the problem with cg like Ajin is mainly the motion, so if they can somehow fix it I see no problem.

>>150890815
It doesn't look hand drawn.
It looks like the same kind of cell shaded stuff everyone has gotten used to decades ago.

It looks fundamentally worse and less vibrant then Killer 13 and No More Heroes.

Miyazaki is holding anime back.

>150888888

>>150888888

>>150890928
Modern anime in general doesn't look hand drawn.

>>150889933
>wasting dubs on this

>>150891045
Yes it does, because it usually is.

>>150888162
Faggot should be aware that showing creepy shit like this to old fart like him would be a bad idea

>>150888162
No

>>150888243
FPBP

>>150889091
Except waste everyone's time.

>>150889062
Agreed

You proved it.

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>>150890928
I don't really know, anon. Shinkai gets almost unanimous praise for his visual style, and honestly I think his style is very close to cell shaded stuff, if you for example compare the images. I think the biggest difference is, as I said, in movement, as Shinkai films move like hand drawn characters which isn't naturally reflected in images.

>>150888162
Hate hippies like Miyazaki. Go put your beret back on old man.

It's not that simple, and I think for example mech anime kind of reflects this.

Often mechs are done with cg as they are most cost-effective and easier that way, but the result is eye cancer. But for example shit like Iron Blooded Orphans boasted on "hand-drawn mechs" as that's apparently a sales point nowadays, surprise surprise, the mechs look like shit. Apparently it's really hard to draw complex and detailed large objects that have a detailed symmetry.

Other thing is that many studios like Ufotable and Kyoani get praise for their visuals, but no one is actually praising their actual drawings but all the cool cg-effects they have integrated in their works. I feel like it's pretty much a meme to hate cg as a person can unknowingly praise something he is supposed to passionately hate.

>>150888162

Miyazaki has always been in the wrong. He's anti technology because technology isn't perfect from the start. Sad old man.

>>150888162
Both, why the fuck would you show AI work to an animator?

>>150892745
My question would be why would you show disturbing dragging zombie to an old guy who also creates child cartoons.

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>>150888162
CG is the future of anime
That old guy has to fuck off

>>150893011
Holy fucking shit this is terrible

>>150888162
Miyazaki a cunt

>>150888162
Old man and Nazi sympathiser is scared of change so lashes out at younger contemporaries.

Miyazaki sucks but he is old and will die soon so just nod your head when he babbles and ignore the old coot.

>>150888162
>this reminds me of a friend with issues so your zombie is an insult to life and you should feel bad
The first part wasn't even about the drawing, he was just being a bitch. The animator is a bitch for crying because an old man who's accomplished shit complained about something stupid.

The part at the very end is understandable, since hand animation made a lot of stuff amazing and replacing that with computers automatically would make animation easier, but soulless and boring.

>>150890491
oh nice

>>150891841
>hippie
>Miyazaki
Are you for real right now?

>>150888162
Tbh Miyazaki is in the right. All you people defending CG are literally from /v/.
The day when anime goes full CG is the day anime dies.

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Why did he bring up his disabled friend? I don't get it at all.

>>150888162
Who is the guy on the top and why the fuck is his eyes and lips look like a bad plastic surgery job? Was he a radiation baby?

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How the fuck does creating some AI movements relate to his fucking disabled friend?

I can't even begin to imagine how much of an asshole he must be to work with, Why does Anno like this cunt again.

>>150894955
>Why does Anno like this cunt again.
Because they're literally both elitist and pretentious? It's a match made in heaven.

>>150894888
Did you miss the part in the video where they explicitly say that the technology is suited to video game animation? Seems like it.

>>150894994
So what? Does that justify /v/ shitting up /a/ with these fucking threads?

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Miyazaki is just upset that within mere months, Keit-Ai (243.1 million USD) is on the cusp of going beyond the box office gross of Spirited Away (289.1 million USD)

>>150888162
Its their fault for wasting Miyazaki time
>Hey let's show this old fart who yells at clouds this techdemo of some headless zombie bumping around
They could have at least produced a short or something, but I don't know what they wanted to achieve with that.

>>150895507
>yells at clouds

i swear to fucking god if i have to read this shitty forced meme again...

>>150895050
This is ironic, you fags are the one who bring these threads to /v/

People on /v/ assume miyazaki that /a/ talks about is the dark souls creator

>>150895507
>hey lets show people how we can massproduce shit for the sake of shock value!
>yes, then we can make a remake of LOTR and put like twenty spooky scenes and ten battle scenes because our AI can make it! Even if the plot is not asking for it! Is easy!
You are the one yelling at Castle in the sky.

where can i see the documentary

>I have a disabled friend therefore body horror is bad
Miyazaki is a twat.

>>150895336
Already a thing.

https://www.fictionpress.com/s/3206139/1/Keit-AI-Tomoyuki-x-Seiko-Keit%E6%84%9B-%E5%A5%89%E6%96%87-x-%E8%81%96%E5%AD%90

http://www.webtoons.com/en/challenge/keit-ai/list?title_no=36825

>>150896162
You don't have friends or experience about life so you can't understand. Yes, we know.

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>>150895336

>>150896199
Projection is not an argument.

Maybe in 3-5 years it will be great.

>>150895336
Stop posting Keit-ai because it's already an anime.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcVGDV67L-g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_rz1bluG_k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLUjMWRCzic

I believe we programmers should move as quickly as possible towards creating our virtual overlords because humanity is doomed regardless.

Why'd they even bother showing Miyazaki this. Old man didn't even get the point of the demonstration. All he saw were the retarded animations in front of him and he reacted to it.

The dudes didn't even bother explaining just what it was they were trying to show after Miyazaki commented on the animation.

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>>150895336
>Keit-ai is about to be the highest grossing anime of all time

FINDS

>>150896133
The thing is Miyazaki probably didn't think of that, he just some headless thing crawling. If they wanted to impress him or show the possibilities of the tool they should have at least prepared a short or a tech demo that involved more than that.

>>150898480
Have you considered expending any effort to read and gather information on your own, instead of simply demanding it from others?

It would take you a few minutes to read the first several posts, and use google to access this story for yourself. Why should other people encourage your lazy and selfish behavior on the board?

>>150889099
Seriously this. Watch any disney cartoon movie in the past 10 years. Its incredible and only getting better. Way too expensive for anime though.

>>150898546
based mods

>>150893011
I think this is more of an insult to life.

>>150889099
>No. CG already looks better than animation.
show me

>>150898958
>Watch any disney cartoon movie in the past 10 years.

I've always wondered why they've gravitated towards the "3d blob" stuff over their classical animation, precisely because I think it looks shittier.

>>150889099
I'll never accept CG no matter how much money they waste on it.

>>150901688
Traditional animation is too difficult.

>>150901715
>Traditional animation is too difficult.
t. Millennials bitching

>>150902037
Is it not difficult? There's a reason short films are so common in animation. For American style animation which places a ton of value in visual consistency, CG is a godsend. I mean, it's shit and ruined American animation for ever, but look how clean it looks!

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>>150901625

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>>150901625

>>150902366
HA

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It can look fine, it just takes a lot of work. Considering how anime tends to take a lazy approach to 2D animation 60% of the time, then of course 3D anime - generally seen as helpful in decreasing the workload on the 2D end - will be unimpressive to look at in most cases.

>>150902401
Still would have looked better without the awkward, jerky, bloby CG stuff desu

Why do we have this repetitive thread again?

>>150902366
Nice meme, except I was there and I witnessed it with my eyes.

>>150902401
I think that looks pretty bad.

>>150888294
Nice rhyme

>>150902401
God that looks shit. When did Telltale start making anime?

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someone needs to show him pic related

>>150902493
>lying on the internet

>>150888162
Miyaki wasn't even mad about the use of CG - he's used CG graphics before. He just found the zombie to be in extremely poor taste (I doubt he enjoys horror games for example) and further he finds the idea that humans want to turn artistic creation over to machines to be profoundly disturbing.

I can't blame him for anything he said.

>art is dead, why do we need oil based paint, milk paint is just fine
>art is dead, mass produced canned paint ruins the secret formula we have for our own personal oil paint
>art is dead, photography kills the very essence of trying to interpret the world around us
>art is dead, digital painting is just a poor imitation of the real thing

Regardless of how you feel about an aesthetic, art always moves forward. The existence of deep learning AI that attempts to make art doesn't erase the existence of other methods or devalue them in anyway. As we experiment with the new technology we develop and apply them to creative endeavors, we learn more about ourselves, what it means to be art and how to proceed to reach a tangible goal. A good example is physics applications and their role in CG. Sure, you can let the physics just run based on your model but that doesn't necessarily lead to the look you're trying to achieve or a product that is aesthetically pleasing. In Guilty Gear Xrd, models were run through their lighting model and every frame was then inspected and shadows were adjusted to meet the look they were going for. There's no reason that deep learning AI can be used in a similar fashion.

As an artist myself, the words of Vilppu resonate with me the most in almost everything I do:

"There are no rules, just tools."

>>150904512
>Art is dead, no one appreciates my literal shit on canvas
I somewhat agree with you but the other extreme exists too

>>150888162
Him still being alive is what's an insult to life itself.

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>>150888281
Pretty much this. Also CG in anime already has a pretty bad stigma.

Probably why Kingdom never really caught on despite being one of the best selling manga in Japan. The anime looked like a PS1 cutscene. They tried to exclude CG for season 2, but the damage was done.

>>150895797
It won't die any time soon, it may be the oldest meme of all times.

>>150888532

Exactly, Miyazaki not exposed it in a good way, but they failed everything.

Also Miyazaki seen some shit in his life, why you show this things saying with excitement: "Look miyazaki, we have done this empty husk that move like a body feeling mechanically pain but without brain so is pure suffering without a point, it's useful to you uh? :):D:););)XDXD"

>>150888573

finally more moe bloody retarded shit for all

>>150888704

You mean JoJo reference right? When Grampa Joseph yell at the enemy clound stando ;)

>>150893011
Okay is this actually from a Tv-Show or is it some flashshit a lonely sperg did in his basement for his youtube channel?

Holy fucking shit, the video has nothing to do with CGI in anime. It's about AI using learned behavior to create animation. I feel like half the people in this thread haven't actually watched the video.

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Miyazaki is a crabby faggot, those guys are visionaries.

>>150908811
those guys were having fun shitposting and testing bad shit on a shit anime and it triggered miyazaki so hard because he realized that a shit zombie AI was more human than his crippled friend

Etotama is literally the only anime where the CG is an asset to the show.

B-BUT GUYS

3D IS THE FUTURE! Don't you want even LESS people to invest in developing good drawing skills so every anime can look like a PS2 game instead??? Fuck that old fart, he doesn't know SHIT about programmers and what we have to go through just to keep our jobs.

>>150908811
Dumb frogposter.

>>150889130
>15% contempt
yep its working

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If you ever think about how nothing last forever, everything ends, memento mori, mono no aware, and all that shit, well, at least you can console yourself with the knowledge that "Miyazaki hates something modern" threads will be posted beyond the heat death of the fucking universe. There'll be a thread about Miyazaki bitching about entropy when that happens.

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member Mononoke?

>>150912106
ye I member

>>150888162
>Miyazaki
>highly successful animator with an established catalog of audience and critically-acclaimed works

>Literal who Jap
>has never done anything

Hmm...

I think i'd rather have lazy 2D animation that pretends to be amazing by adding some lens flare animation or flashy barely drawn frames during fight sequences like MS100 for now.

I don't think CG is suitable for this format it's too expensive to make it look fluid


>>150912498
>has never done anything

this guy probably worked more than you

I don't get why MEMEzaki's so mad.
I think it's great idea to aply CG for between frames, let skilled people do the key frames. We could avoid this kind of shit: >>150893011
Still, CG has a long way to go. It will take ages to see something like GG.

>>150895336
That's pretty sad. Keit-Ai is good, but Spirited Away is truly great.

>>150888243
I was going to say 3d animation might be the future because of many reasons e.x. look at 3d animation in the west but then you point this out.
Miyazak was right.

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>every comment in this itt

>>150888281
I would strangle you in person for just reading that kind of cancer you spewed out.

CG is literally the cancer of animation.

>>150888281
It's not about how it looks "good" or "bad"

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>>150913831
>in this itt

RIP in peace