Why did he basically kill himself at the end? Did he hate himself?

>>150735260
he says he has to. I'd say Rikiichi's death fucked him up and he decided to do for others what Riki did, which is sacrificing everything for the chance to have a good fight. Add to that the difference between a battle of men and the sport of boxing, that is referenced throughout the story.

I would do the same. I think he did it mostly for pride

Did he died a virgin?

>>150735378
So he hated himself because of the guilt of killing his best friend, and making a human wreck out of his next friend? It seems plausible but when did he start having those self-destructive tendencies? Was it after or before Rikishii's death?
>>150735563
Probably

>>150735720
Well, he was literally a street bum so he never had much for himself. I think self-hate wasn't the biggest part of it though, or else he'd just have offed himself or gone for the bottle.

Because that's how a man has to die, fighting.

>>150735773

He was smart for a street bum, remember how he swindled millions out of the girl who went to the prison. I say he could've had a decent life if he used his brains correctly but Joe was too stubborn.

>>150735378

>Rikiichi's death had people mourning on the street in Japan
Do you think another character's death would touch the nation as much as his? Seriously I can't think of someone who's death would have that effect on people as much as Rikiichi's, maybe Char's?

>>150736142
Oh sure, I meant that he didn't have stuff like pride, reputation, or whatever it is that makes you want to live normally.

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He has to die in the ring, just like Toru Rikishii did.

Joe a cute.

So what are you lot watching this evening? I'm currently going through Legend of the Galactic Heroes again, I'm around the time Geiserburg and Iserlohn meet and I must say I found the FPA episodes boring the first time I watched it but I'm enjoying them a lot more the second time round. Empire episodes are still 10/10 though.

Other than that finished Mainichi ga Nichiyoubi and the main story in Blue Comet SPT Layzner. I've been thinking about watching Hokuto no Ken after I'm done rewatching Legend of the Galactic Heroes or watching it alongside considering I read the manga a while ago.

Also what are the chances of the Ashita no Joe manga getting licensed in English? I doubt it'd happen considering how sports manga doesn't sell well, it's a shame though since I'd love to own both Joe and Touch if they ever got a really nice release.

What's the better experience, the last 26 episodes of Joe 1 or the first 12 of Joe 2? Both?

>>150736417
What a bitch.

>>150737194
She is saying the truth though.

>>150735260
In the flashback scene where Joe was sitting at the beach/harbour and staring at the mountain in the distance, he was wondering what was on the other side and if he could ever reach it, as a way of questioning whether he'd ever find a place and purpose in his sad life. Also don't forget that he was an asshole bum for a very long time that didn't give a fuck about anything or anyone.

Going the through the experiences he had with Rikiishi, Carlos, etc Joe changed and developed humility and a deep but subtle sort of regret for not realising the more important things. To a guy who knew nothing but loneliness his whole life, they meant way more than most people could imagine.

Joe felt indebted to them and once he learned about his boxer's dementia, he realised there
wasn't anything for him on the other side of the
mountain, only the hard climb towards the top. This meant fighting like a man, with all he had, living life to the fullest the way he knew best, for both himself and for the others that made him the man he became. He wanted to keep burning strong right until his death, rather than slowly fade into a life that he couldn't bear to live, especially if it meant losing to the worse parts of boxer's dementia and failing to carry on the legacy of Rikiishi the others. All in all, there wasn't really just one simple reason why he ended up dying.

>>150737110
I'd say the first 12 of AnJ 2 for smooth continuity and best quality but there were some parts (and a whole sub-arc actually) that I really missed from the last 26 of AnJ 1. You could watch both but it'll be jarring.

>>150737518
>you will never die like Joe
why live

I thought it was considered ambiguous whether or not he really died?

>>150736142
>Do you think another character's death would touch the nation as much as his?
Raoh from Hokuto no Ken had some sort of funeral service

Why is modern anime so shit compared to retro anime?

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>>150739325
Over saturation, everything is tv, digital production being used as a crutch, etc.

>>150738987
To die.

>>150739325
It's not. Everything that aired around Joe is also shit compared to it.

>>150739325
Anime wasn't just manga/LN advertisement back then.

>>150739325
Modern anime are fine, it's just the last 3 years that have been pretty shit.

>>150739325

Characters don't feel like they have real progression or personalities at all. Every male character feels the same.

Do you remember?

>>150740153
You haven't seen many 70s macha have you.

Should I watch anime adaptation or read manga?

>>150740276

I'm working on getting more 70s and 70s mecha anime into my repertoire but it's pretty low. I've only seen from that decade: Mobile Suit Gundam, Rose of Versailles, Invincible Superman Zambot 3 and Galaxy Express 999.

>>150740276
>using 70s mecha of all things as an example of character progression
You probably haven't seen many either to be honest, just the handful of praised ones out of the metric fuckton of extremely barebones mecha series from that period

>>150740201
I remember Joe

>>150735260
he was already fucked up and boxing was all he had

>>150740578
That was my point. Since what the anon I was replying to holds against modern anime is also true for the average show from that time period.

>>150736417

latter on that chick wants him to quit

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As much as I hate vaporwave and all those other tumblr movements I'm glad they're giving a resurgence of interest in old anime.

There's much more to old anime than what western "mature" "anime experts" love to talk of it. Modern anime might have better characterization and story-telling than old anime sure, but old anime still has that unique charm to it that can't be replicated in modern times. It's wrong to claim that new anime is inferior to old anime, the two are completely different things. Old anime matters as much as new anime for it describes a whole zeitgeist, it is a glimpse towards a more carefree pre-crisis and early post-crisis Japan. A time when people threw money towards the craziest of projects because they could afford it. A time of absolute freedom.

When it comes to it the tiny details in old anime matter much more than good characterization or story. They should be viewed as artistic projects therefore, something that unfortunately majority of western reviewers fail to do or miss out on (until recently at least).

Aesthetics is not a meme when you look beyond post-internet culture.

>>150740350

the anime has some great direction, but you might find it slow, so any is good, now get out before you get spoiled

>>150742211
>so much misguidedness.
>not pasta

>>150742394
Spoilers are not even a bad thing. The only thing that loses impact when spoiled are shock factor show. Nothing of worth is lost.

>>150742394
The ending is extremely famous, kinda hard not to be spoiled by it

>>150742654
What about it?

Are there subs of that show from 1969, Tiger Mask?

Saving the thread.

Asides from Rikishi, Carlos was the GOAT boxer I really really loved
Did Joe saw himself in him when they fought? did Rikishi's death fucked him that much so that's why he didn't care that much for crippling Carlos?

>>150746176
Yeah, basically Joe felt that Rikishii and Carlos wanted to burn the fire inside them in the ring, just like him.

Glory of Pain or Midnight Blues?
I prefer Glory of Pain because it's a good workout song.

>>150746526
Midnight Blues
The ending is just perfect with it, hell, I almost broke out crying when it played after the last fight

>>150735260
It's a long process, even though it's physical for some reason it's also more emotional

I think is somewhat a form of depression, you don´t care if you are hurting yourself

>>150747087
~hey hey blues

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>>150747459
Your shout moved people hearts...

He did not die, the author wanted to make an open end, he just went blind

>>150739135
Which always bothered me.
Raoh was kind of a dick.
His motives were mostly 'Waaaaah master/father didn't like me as much as Kenshiro'
And he didn't even have many cool techniques.

>>150739325
Not a fair comparison, Joe is probably one of the best anime and manga out there.

>>150751100
Actually, weren't his motives to be like an emperor of the wastelands?
And also, don't forget half of the cast motives to do shit in HnK
>muh Julia

>>150751731
yeah but the catalyst was Ryuken named Ken the successor and Raoh hated that, went to kill Ryuken (almost failing to do so if not for a sudden coughing fit) and then Raoh just hit things really hard

>>150739570
underrated post

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>>150737518
Basically this except for:

>Joe felt indebted to them and once he learned about his boxer's dementia

You have to remember, he kind of outright states he's not fighting because he feels like he owes Carlos or Rikiishi anything.
He kind of flat out states his reasons for fighting to his death in episode 14 of Ashita no Joe 2, they even remind us of this at the end of episode 46.

>"I'm not fighting because of my feelings of debt or obligation to others. I fight, 'cause in the end, I love boxing.
>It's certainly quite a world apart from the bright youth you talk about, but that burning sense of worth and completeness
>is something i've only tasted on a bloodied ring. And this burning sensation isn't a momentary sputter
>that others my age go through. It's so intense that it burns your entire body up in an instant.
>And when it's over, only white ashes remain.
>Not even any tiny cinders... Just pure white ash.

>I've never felt anything like this before I started boxing.
>So you see, i'm not fighting on a sense of debt or obligation alone.
>I fight because I love to fight."

There's of course more to interpret, like his conversation with Danpei towards the beginning of episode 44, but this rant of his kind of sums up his feelings.