Why do people like Fate Stay Night so much? The worldbuilding?
>>150597010
Because it is an eroge.
>>150597100
It is probably the most popular VN of all time. Fate Zero is one of the most successful anime of all time.
have you read it?
>>150597010
The characters.
It fuels the eternal pissing contest that is
>my favorite hero could beat up your favorite hero
It's how you get your dose of powerlevels after you start thinking you're too cool for Naruto and DBZ.
>>150597555
This
>>150597522
This
>>150597555
And this
>>150597454
This too.
Redman fighting Blueman is probably the best way to get someone into the medium that is new to it. Shirou as a musical score was amazing and the tempo really matched the pace of reading. It also is the first pioneer to introduce loli as a heroine. So many things, the rivalry and world building of the tiger dojos.
>>150597010
Characters
World
Powerwanking
Great music barring 2014
Nasu's weird prose
>>150597010
I think it's a lot of small things, it hits just that right cross sectional area of "nerd appeal"
Urban fantasy? check, crossover? check, abilities quantified but still vague enough for speculation? check,
>>150598126
>It also is the first pioneer to introduce loli as a heroine.
Kagetsu Tohya
>>150598185
That is a funny way to spell cat.
>>150597522
>Tohsaka's anus
>>150598185
Do you think Shiki has threesomes with Len and Arcueid?
>>150597555
>>150597896
>>150598163
>>150597555
Trips for truth. Fatefaggots argue powerlevels like it's going out of style. Though I guess it doesn't help that Nasu in all his autism decided to put worthless stat pages in the VN.
>>150597010
There is nothing of merit in Fate's worldbuilding. It's literally our earth but half of the mythological figures have been genderbent because reasons and some of them also have futacocks cause Nasu says so.
>>150598277
Oh boy here we go.
>>150598277
>Though I guess it doesn't help that Nasu in all his autism decided to put worthless stat pages in the VN.
It made it feel more of an interactive adventure than the typical eroge.
>>150598277
>some of them also have futacocks cause Nasu says so
Based Nasu
>>150597010
for the best girl
>>150597010
Do you like Fate/stay night ?
This work was a little too shonen and juvenile for my taste. But when Fate Zero adaptation came out in 2011, I think Type-Moon really came into their own, maturely and deeply.
With his thought-provoking themes and mature setting, Fate Zero makes immediately clear that this production does not only match its predecessor but far surpasses it in every way imaginable.
He's been compared to Hideaki Anno, but I think Gen Urobuchi has a far more bitter, cynical and nihilistic sense of humor.
Their most accomplished show and undisputed masterpiece "Fate/Zero" brought a lot of new fans into the franchise.
A show with battles so catchy, most secondaries probably don't even try to comprehend the deep meaning of the story. But they should, because it's not just about the powerlevels.
It's also a complex and philosophical statement about the nature of mankind.
>>150598378
>Why would Zero be written by Urobuchi Gen? That is a long story. The relationship between Urobuchi Gen and Fate can go back to 2002.
>I was writing the Fate Saber route at the time, and was sent into the hospital near my house due to illnesses. TYPE-MOON was still doujin at the time, and Fate was yet a fledgling draft with four main routes including an Ilya route. Takeuchi, who thought ‘if there’s only Nasu doing the work we’ll never finish it’, asked me: “Is there a writer you think as trustworthy who can write some stories to be inserted into plot?”
>With such thoughts, I began to hook Urobuchi Gen with baits such as ‘wanna go see a movie together?”. Although I was quite happy with Urobuchi’s reply “I’ll definitely do things that interest me”, I still told him “Nah, I was just kidding!”. That was because I suddenly realised I always gave up on projects by being like this, and I must see this one through. Maybe Fate will be the last game that is solely written by me. Therefore I decided to do it myself, and gave up on the plan of seeking his help. Afterwards, we discussed it over and over. After a few continuous meet-ups, the draft of volume one was finally completely in the winter of 2004. Some readers might be surprised that at the time, Hollow was obviously not finished, so why was volume one concluded!? Because of that, Urobuchi-san thought ‘Zero is a story based on Fate. So it’s better if Zero doesn’t become available to the public before Fate is released.’ Therefore, after waiting for a year, it was finally released in the winter of 2006. That’s how things went.
>>150597431
>most popular ever
Not even close.
This is how you get Japanese laughing at you for being a western retard
>Fate threads will never be good again
>>150598378
Is that a trench coat?
>>150598419
What is, then?
>>150598424
>>150597010
>worldbuilding
>KnK:
>Magic exists and is organized
>People with non-magic supernatural abilities exist
>Tsukihime:
>Vampires exist but true Ancestors are closer to super saiyans than traditional vampire
>The catholic church hunts demons and is at odds with the mages
>Fate:
>King arthur was a woman
>She was also a futa
>Hassan al-Sabbah was actually like seven people one of which was a woman
>Post Fate stuff:
>Jack the ripper was also a chick
>So was Atilla
>And Francis Drake
>And Shuten doji was a loli
>>150598472
>permitting anything that fails to follow the thematic and setting conventions established by Rakkyou, Tsukihime, F/SN, and DDD
>possibly believing Extella remotely managed to capture those conventions at any point
>insipid fanservice garbage at worst which utterly destroys Nero's character
>the most inconsistent braindead shounen idiocy at best
>not full autism rage at the state of the setting and Nasu's increasing incompetence, given the existence of F/GO
>EX rank fucking everywhere on everyone
>all of these pathetic attempts at humor in the years following Mahoyo's fumbling publication
>now all the fucking memes are the most prominent thematic and setting conventions within Type-Moon works because they've been used more than the original ones Nasu wrote of during TM's first 7 or so years from 1998 to 2005
>Tsukihime remake never, which is probably not a bad thing
I felt really immersed while reading it, like when you sink into an enjoyable book. The historical aspects and interesting characters made it one of my favorite VN, though I'm the first to admit it was no masterpiece. The fate route was painful to read at times.
>>150597431
>probably the most popular VN of all time
Maybe if you only count the west considering how early it was fully translated and how easily available it is. In Japan though? Not by a long shot.
>>150597010
>world building
Except it has no such thing, it takes advantage of the world explored in previous series like KnK and Tsukihime. Even the whole magic circuits, rune, mystic eyes and whatever are not from fate. The only thing fate adds are the heroes.
It's popular because it's basically the shonenshit of TM. Knk and Tsukihime are more about mystery, Fate is all about power levels.
>>150598126
>first pioneer heroine Loki
Illya is not even a heroine and it's not even close to being the first
Holy fuck are fatefags unironically this retarded?
>>150598426
Yes it is!
>>150598497
What VN is considered more popular? I'm curious.
>>150598488
>>EX rank fucking everywhere on everyone
This kind of thing was kinda inevitable unless they were going to sit down and constantly guage every servant they came up with against the ones from FSN.
>>150598424
>Fate threads
>good
>>150597010
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-04/psst-sony-has-a-hit-that-s-as-big-as-pokemon-go-in-japan
>>150598488
>>EX rank fucking everywhere on everyone
That fucked with me the most. Seeing bitches with EX not just in one stat but multiple.
Like Jesus, just give them A+ or something. Very few motherfuckers should actually have EX.
Anyone else mad at these lazy motherfuckers?
Nasu might be the biggest hack in the VN industry (Now that Gen is gone making
shitty anime scripts), he spends all these years hyping up Mahoyo to be the biggest thing ever (tsukikan.com/mahoyo/about.html) and its completely unfinished and suppose to be part of a trilogy we are likely not going to see completed until next decade.
All they do is rehash Fate/Stay Night shit over and over again, anime, phone games, light novels, Saber figures, can we not get anything new?
Any other company can make games on a schedule but these guys with such a prolific background can't even do a simple remake in a timely manner, Tsukihime 2 is probably doesn't have a plot outline at this point.
They also seem to just leave projects to die like Girl's Work which hasn't had any information for about 4 years and French Bread had to make UNIEL because Nasu was too "busy" to write a plot for a new Melty Blood game.
I love the Nasuverse and its really hard to take when your favorite universes lore takes a backseat for sellout jewshit.
>>150597010
It'sfun
>>150598551
Except nothing in that article is true.
It made money in some events during it's first year, wow. There's mobages doing what Fate does in a week.
Also
>bloomberg
>that clickbait title
>pokemon GO of all things, a dead game
>>150598582
The problem is you can't really be seen to be going down, because it makes the steaks seem less high.
Zero, to it's credit actually did manage to basically side or downgrade the scales for the most part without tampering with that, but that might be because it had 2 pre-existing characters so they could just make 2 foils for them aand the rest can be whatever without it being an issue.
>>150597010
Because everyone wants to see Archer do cool things like 1v1ing Gilgamesh
>>150598596
But Mahoyo is the best thing ever.
>>150598430
>>150598514
>give me recs senpai
Go to any Japanese forum and ask, or ask in /r/
Doubt you're able to do that if you think Fate is the most popular VN
>>150597010
I have no idea to be honest, and I played 3 of the routes. why people like the series so much that it has gotten so many spin offs it makes no sense. Why did one shitty yandere loli who is briefly featured in a few routes need to be a character in a SOE magical girl thing?
>>150597522
it's not this though. All the characters are shit. most of them have no personality at all. all of them are the same constant unrelenting and unbearable smug psycho, except Gilgamesh, who manages to be even more smug than that.
Lets list all the characters who main defining characteristic is that they are smug, a strong, and confident that they are strong (smug)
Lancer, Rin, Archer, Gilgamesh, Rider, Caster, Gilgamesh, Shinji, and probably some others too. Does Saber count?
Well of the ones who aren't complete write offs, if anyone thinks even one of those characters can pass for well written, then you desperately need to go back to Highschool english class. Saber is such a flat and poorly written character, it makes you wonder whether whoever wrote her has ever has ever had a girlfriend.
>>150597010
>Why do people like Fate Stay Night so much
The characters and theSEIGI.
>>150598638
>The problem is you can't really be seen to be going down, because it makes the steaks seem less high.
The fact is that you don't need to go down, you can just move left and right.
The only people that could get away with being EX should be Solomon and any future villains, anyone who already had an EX like Drake and any servant that would be considered top-tier in-universe like the Edgy Pajeet and his oddly pale brother with their EX-rank Noble Phantasms.
>>150598664
Recs? I just asked what VN you think is more popular than Fate.
>>150598669
Nice shitpost. Saber, at her core, was a pretty deep character. There are parallels drawn between Saber and Shirou with their obsession with matching an unrealistic standard (being a superhero/being the king England deserves) and Saber's backstory shows that trying to become that person ultimately destroyed her. She's remembered as one of the greatest legends of all time but she was never truly happy her entire life, and millennia after her death her only wish is still that someone else would've pulled the sword from the stone because she wasn't good enough. And it plays into one of the central themes of the Arthurian mythos, which is of Arthur as an ideal.
>>150597431
I seriously hope this is bait, I refuse to believe someone here says this.
Am I on reddit? Just because you watched the anime it doesn't mean it's the most popular you fucking retard, even in the west it's not as popular as muv luv
>>150598722
Source?
>>150598695
>The fact is that you don't need to go down, you can just move left and right.
That's hard and then you still have to throw people out as strong as Artoria and Gil every time.
I mean they made their own bed when they threw King Arthur and fucking Hercules into their first (to be fair it may well have been the only one) story.
Notice how they've been pretty fucking careful about showing us just a normal Hercules? or to show us Galahad?
Becuase that's pretty much the absolute limits that they can go to.
>>150598733
Anywhere.
Muv luv raising more than 1 million for a translation is already more than Fate anything has ever done in the west and Japanese otaku don't even think it's a cult series, in fact otaku in Japan prefer Tsukihime VN over Fate VN.
Use google or fuck off delusional shitposter
>>150598803
You don't think Fate would raise one million if it had a kickstarter?
>>150597010
Something like that, for me anyway. It really is terrible but I still play them.
>>150597522
Is this Luvia's wet dream?
>>150598830
What makes it terrible?
>>150598788
To be fair, Galahad probably wouldn't actually be that strong statistically.
You'd just make him slightly stronger than Gawain and Lancelot while making him weaker than Karna.
Our boy Archer Herc however I understand. That's just unfair and if you add him in, he'll probably have to be a villain.
>>150598851
Are you asking this as someone who has or hasn't played it?
>>150598803
Of course they like moon princess more, it's way more about the girls and how much they love shiki rather than the MC's personal struggles.
>>150598721
you definitely need to go back to highschool english. A character that does stuff is not well written. what they do in the narrative is different from who they are a character. you can't just tell us they are deep and conflicted and edgy. you need to walk the walk, and innocent waifu who is embarressed at recieving oral sex doesn't do that.
>>150598854
>To be fair, Galahad probably wouldn't actually be that strong statistically.
>literally the perfect knight who surpasses Arthur, has a sword that's better than Excalibur (and by some accounts later on got another sword that was even better), a sheild that's the best shield ever and the holy grail itself and via that a wish heaven which he used to dictate his own time of death.
>not going to be beyond busted if they ever decide to use him
>>150598952
No one's saying it's Ulysses, but saber is well thought out and realised.
She has many thematic parallels with the characters she plays off, this is a sign of good writing and well through out narrative and themes.
This is the biggest strength of FSN, Nasu clearly put a lot of thought into this so everything plays off each other well in a narrative sense. It makes up for the fact that (assuming the translations are remotely similar) he writes like "no... it was more like (insert similie here)" or that he thinks seafood analogies are erotic.
It takes all the addictive traits that other things have and does them all at the same time.
>listed stats for each servant that's fun to read over and autistically memorize, and also a lot of them (this can be seen in other obsessive hobbies like Pokemon, mobile suits, tanks)
>dark plot with a lot of pathos
>expansive world with a lot of world building
>memorable characters with something driving each of them
I'm speaking for all of Fate in general and not just /stay night.
>>150597010
World building.
Can you explain what important thing did Fate add to the verse?
Servants, that's it. A bunch of jobbers that are playthings of anyone worth Jack shit. Oh and retarded power level fags because of the poorly written "stats" and special abilities that are as lazy as those RPG isekai that base everything on stats and stupid garbage
KnK introduces Alaya, the root, Mystic Eyes, ESP, Magus, the Clock tower, origin, bounded fields.
Tsukihime introduces Types officially into the story(notes is not canon), Gaia, Magicians with miss Blue, the church and it's factions, demi-humans, hunter clans, other clans like Hisui's and Kohaku. Magic circuits, mutants(Ciel, Shiki). Reality Marbles, Marble phantasm, Zelretch, TYPE-MOON , Primate murder, inversion impulses and I'm probably forgetting more shit.
>>150598914
Someone who has.
>>150597010
Cute girls and a thrilling plot - it's not the deepest, but the world building is expansive, building off of Tsukihime.
I remember it being incredibly satisfying to see how the world changed after just slight differences to produce the three main routes.
Say what you will, but the combat and slice of life was awesome. Kirei is also one of the best 'villains' in VNs, constantly shitting on Shirou's ideology.Muv-Luv is better though.[/spoiler
>>150599028
>listed stats for each servant that's fun to read over and autistically memorize, and also a lot of them (this can be seen in other obsessive hobbies like Pokemon, mobile suits, tanks)
Only those other stats actually matter. Pokemon stats actually decide combat. Mobile suit stats are actually used to create scale model plamo.
>>150599015
Did Nasu also put a lot of thought in how big he wanted Saber's futanari penis to be?
>>150599079
You forgot phantasmal/divine whatever beasts in Tsukihime. I don't think they existed in KnK
>>150599105
>Did Nasu also put a lot of thought in how big he wanted Saber's futanari penis to be?
No because that was clearly a handwave to "but arthur had a son with X"
"yeah merlin did it, he said it was fine, don't ask him about it"
>>150599079
Fate went into more detail with a lot of these things IIRC, I'd have to actually sit down again, but I recall it really expanding on what was there.
Either way it doesn't matter as everything is going to be re-centered around fate now anyway because it's by far and away the most profitable section. I imagine this si why turkeyhandle is taking so long, trying to find ways to tie it in more.
>>150599079
And yet, none of that is as interesting as the history behind the Grail ritual, the mage families, and concepts like the throne of heroes.
>>150598921
>every route is about revealing Shiki's past bit to bit and how do the heroines fit in that past or how they can help him live with his demons
>entire routes dedicated to Shiki's state of mind, starting from the fucking prologue
The only route that has less Shiki than the heroine is Arc's, but the entirety of Tsukihime and it's sequels are made around discovering who the fuck Shiki Tohno actually is.
Honestly... Never mind, this is your (You) mate
>>150599015
>assuming the translations are remotely similar
That's a big assumption.
>>150597010
Yes, and Shirou, and waifus.
>>150599162
I don't understand how you can argue a character is "well thought out and realized" when the writer accepts handwaving on the level of "she had a magic penis".
>>150598419
Jokes on you, my hardcore otaku japanesr twitter friend said yes.
>>150599204
Shame that these things are barely touched on
>>150598803
>he unironically thinks fucking MuvLuv of all things has a larger fanbase than Fate
>and Tsukihime has more fans in Japan, when it's almost been forgotten by Type-Moon
Hahahaha. Sorry buddy, "critical success" in elitist weeb forums does not equal commercial success.
>>150599273
Because that's 1 incredibly minor portion of the whole picture.
Is that singular element lazy? yeah fo sure.
>>150599243
Eh, that entire section is just fucking weird and I'd probably rewrite a lot more of it than those guys did myself.
>>150599271
Old Men, Old Kings and Old Gods.
Money
>>150599204
Except none of those are interesting. Why do you think Fate spin offs are all about fightan and summoning a gazillion servants that have weird abilities instead of focusing on the grail and the root?
Every single Fate after the original only cares about the powerlevels and like some anon said up there
>my hero is better than yours
None of them show any interest in what you said, even the original is mostly composed of power level fights with poorly written and implemented RPG stats. Seriously if Fate was a tabletop game like Nasu wants to pretend it is it would be the shittiest one ever
>>150599273
Yeah, bitch acting like a dude in 90% of her canon movie apperances and sprouting a magic dick to fuck and knock up his sister is sort of a IP killer.
Hell the thing with the dick shaped snatch worms? It pretty much ensures that it will get no play outside of japan and the embarassing hardcore anime dork crowd.
>>150599368
CCC and Case Files are about fightan and summoning a gazillion servants?
>>150599348
>incredibly minor
It's not minor though, it shows he wanted to preserve the part about arthur siring a son. But at the same time he wants her to get reamed by a Japanese highschool boy she's known for two weeks.
>>150599348
Dude, saying "she has a magic dick and has a futa son/daughter that's also her neice/nephew running around" is akin to saying "It's just a gunshot wound, it's not a big deal".
>>150599204
>interesting as the history behind the Grail ritual
There's not much interesting behind it. At least not unless they do some mighty elaboration of the earlier ones. For all it's worth right now it's just the ends to the means of gettiing the jobbers to fight. A bunch of mage families dicking around.
>>150599331
But both of those were commercially successful.
Isn't that what you asked? What VN is more popular, Muv Luv is arguably the n1 ever, a major hit and Tsukihime is a cult series among otaku while Fate is not.
Just because Tsukihime hasn't released material in more than decade doesn't negate what already happened nor does it change what people think of it.
You do realize that video game series end right? Just like movies and all that. Just because Hokuto no Ken ended 30 years ago doesn't mean Hero Academia is more popular
>>150598659
Truly Mahoyo and DDD are the works only the master race can appreciate.
>>150598378
ITS HYPE TO BE SQUARE
>>150599368
>instead of focusing on the grail and the root?
Because we did the grail, that was the whole point of FSN/Zero
>>150599471
Not in the slightest, stuff that has little bearing on the narrative being handwaved away isn't a problem. Is it a weird choice to go with? oh yeah absolutely.
>>150597555
Always amuses me considering a key aspect of the series is frequently that battles are unpredictable and can go either way depending on many circumstances.
>>150599532
One grail.
There's a million grails in every spin off, each grail let's you summon super powerful weird heroes at least like 15 of them for extra cool effect.
And then there's FGO, trash story, no well written characters, waifu bikini events, power levels, powerlevels, even more weird stuff, cheap the world is ending time travel plot
>>150599568
"By the way I have a magic futa dick and my futa son/dauther/nephew/niece that looks like me will show up eventually. LETS FUCK SHIRO!!"
In the real world, that would have gotten a woman kicked out of not just the bed but from a mans house and life.
But sure, continue to believe what you want.
>>150599627
She never says "yeah merlin gave me a dick and I fucked her raw" IIRC it's a more vague "merlin handled it it's cool"
>>150599501
Do people in Japan or China still care about Tsukihime after so many years? Tsukibako hasn't been manufactured since pre-FSN.
>>150599620
Most of them are the same grail but it's used to focus on the narrative of the heroes in whatever strange alternate reality they happen to be in.
Or it's the moon cell which is it's own thing.
Or grand/order which I don't fucking know, I haven't sat down and read all the translations.
>>150599580
There are dozens of completely broken as fuck powers that can not be overcome no matter what. One of the most broken is in posession of the series mascot saber.
Nothing short of ridiculous asspulls and lapses in common sense makes most of the battles unpredictable.
And no amount of "not taking them serious" is ever going to make Gil losing to anyone outside of that one single story in UBW not outright bullshit.
>>150597010
I liked the concept first.
Then I liked the story and the characters although they're of course far from perfect.
>>150599644
Nigga, bitch can randomly grow a dick.
She's a canon magical futa.
>>150599680
Here we go
I liked Fate until F/Z anime happened. Everything after that went downhill.
>>150598695
EX rank just means it can't be quantified as a number and it works so differently from anything conceivable that comparisons are meaningless. It doesn't just mean "stronger than A+"
>>150598659
>>150599506
Why make new products when the Fate licensing is bringing in all the dough
>>150599580
>depending on many circumstances
You mean Saber JUST dodging Gae Bolg because it just happened that her luck was good? Or Caliburn JUST HAPPENED to power up against Berserker and conveniently kill him 8 times straight despite all we know about God Hand
You mean copypasting Shiki vs Nero
>he underestimated Shiki/Zelretch/Shirou so Nero/Crimson Moon/Gilgamesh got his ass handed despite he normally being super strong I swear guise
Or maybe Saber vs Tsubame Gaeshi? I could go on, there's A LOT more of poorly written fights
>>150599580
>battles are unpredictable and can go either way depending on many circumstances.
>"oh man the MC has a literal body made of swords and an immortal sheath inside of him! how unpredictable"
>Any class that isn't saber or archer basically exists for jobbing ESPECIALLY lancers
>>150599738
>A discussion between Nasu Kinoko and Takeuchi Takashi on Fate/hollow ataraxia and the Fate franchise that in Fate/complete material V Hollow material, which was released in February 2012.
Takeuchi: It’s fun to look back on it because it’s been so long, and just how much we have drawn. I’m so impressed with myself.
Nasu: So the last entry to tie up the Fate series has been released, and I guess we finally close the book on the Fate canon this time.
Takeuchi: All in all, I’m happy that this book came out to bring TYPE-MOON circle prior to the release of Mahoutsukai no Yoru.
Nasu: At first I'd aimed for CCC to be something that can be enjoyed on its own, even more so with Extra. And that Extra can be enjoyed even more with CCC, like Fate/hollow ataraxia to Fate/stay night. But as I wrote the scenario, I became aware of a desire to state the "answer" of the Fate series, which has been continuing for almost ten years now. After ten years, I finally realized that "this is what I wanted to say with the Fate series." If I'm able to complete this, then there'll no longer be anything left for me to say.
I liked Fate until CCC happened. Everything after that went downhill.
>>150598497
Nah, Fate is massively popular in Japan.
>>150598700
he can't answer lmao
>it's a "powerlevelfags shit up the thread with their repetitive arguments" episode
>>150597010
Wordbuilding?
No, the waifus and the porno. That's all there is to f/sn.
>>150599753
>strike air kills berserker... somehow?
>>150599568
>Shirou a 3 meter tall crazed Greek Hero is after us and is going to dismemeber us to pieces
>COME ON PUMP ME FULL OF MANA, AND BY MANA I MEAN SEMEN
>HURRY CHARGE MY BATTERY WITH YOUR SEMEN SO I CAN FIGHT
Fate is just Naruto with porn.
>>150599792
waifus maybe but you can't possibly say seriously that the porno was what made the fans coming.
>>150599807
That's cute, but Shirou isn't a fluorescent orange jumpsuit wearing spy. The only thing it has even remotely in common with Naruto is the genre, and even that only applies to Fate and UBW.
>>150599753
>Or maybe Saber vs Tsubame Gaeshi? I could go on, there's A LOT more of poorly written fights
Go on. Please.
semen demons
>>150599821
It's exactly what made the fans come, why do you think it was changed from female mc to male mc and made into an eroge?
Even if there's little sex it doesn't matter, to the people that play this they like to receive a reward which is fucking the heroine, advancing the story to fuck the heroine
>People criticizing Fate when they've only read a poor translation of it
>>150599807
Maybe if Naruto was 1/10000000 less popular
>>150599868
UBW is called the most popular route and it only had one sex scene and it was forgettable.
>>150599797
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maithuna
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoist_sexual_practices
>>150598700
http://erogamescape.dyndns.org/~ap2/ero/toukei_kaiseki/toukei_osusume.php?count=1000&median=80&erogame=null&coterie=null
Not really representative, but Fate has less entries than Sharin no Kuni here. Still immensely popular though.
>>150599848
>but Shirou isn't a fluorescent orange jumpsuit wearing spy.
Close.
>>150599775
Dude, the guy who claimed that the fights are unpredictable opened the door to that.
>>150599753
I'm not denying poorly written fights, but you can't ignore them in favour of your headcanon either.
Half the purpose of having multiple routes is to show how things play out differently in varying scenarios. The series generally shows multiple times that the underdog can win under the right circumstances, regardless of what "power levels" might otherwise dictate.
>>150599885
>poor translation
This is the first time I've heard this claim, what evidence to have to support your statement?
>>150599797
Saber was messed up so Rin suggested that he transplant his mana crest or something and even then she was still weak (Shirou wouldn't let her use excalibur because she would die) so he pulled caliburn from his ass and they won.
>>150599940
Very literal translation and poorly edited because people were demanding that they release the patch. Mirror Moon are still working on MBAA nowdays and the translation is ace.
>>150599897
F/SN contains 3 routes. When Otaku buy the game they check the heroines they want to fuck and they get to fuck all of them
Token blond foreigner that acts like a maid(and is a carbon copy of an actual maid)
Token action tsundere
Token deredere kohai
You can keen denying it all day if you want but Nash and Takeuchi made it very clear that they made it porn so that anyone would buy it
>>150599940
I read the entirety of Fate in Japanese and English.
>>150599464
>>150599797
I know this is terrible bait but I'll debunk you
-Saber's love for Shirou took an entire route to develop and mainly stems from how they both essentially believe the same thing and can point out the flaws in the other's beliefs whilst failing to acknowledge their own
-Sex for energy exchange or for contract establishment has been a thing ever since the occult first came to notice.You are thousands too late to attack that part or magecraft lore. It isnt something Nasu made up on his own, he took it from long established occult rituals
Here, have some Archer smirking at your stupidity.
>>150599919
Fate/hollow ataraxia more popular than Fate/stay night? How?
>>150597010
Apart from waifus/fights/porn/worldbuilding
I think that F/SN deserves at least praise for reflecting the idea of "hero" and show that being a hero would suck IRL or means that you'd be a fucked up individual.
It's something unique to F/SN and that was lost in the rest of the franchise save F/Z a little.
>>150599960
You sure?
>>150599906
>>150599969
>muh history
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. ARE YOU RETARDED?
You mean there's a convenient little house in the middle of the forest and the MC has a pseudo threesome where a girl "prepares" the "innocent" heroine with lesbo shit and then she gets the cock? All while they're being chased by nosferatu zodd?
That's good writing for you? Fatefags are genuinely retarded.
The sex is not the problem you fucking retard, the way it happens is you braindead moron. I repeat since you're dumb, what matters is the execution you clown
>>150599960
The porn got peoples foot in the door.
After they got their taste of badly written and oft distasteful porn, they settled on a favorite.
The UBW route.
They hated or just did not really care for any of the other routes at all.
Which is strange if you look at what they put all of their efforts and promotion into.
>Nasu
I still have ill feelings toward what is publicly known as "moe," so he writes things in to make sure the plot has those elements, but he retains that "I haven't completely sold my soul yet!" But then he goes and says "We could use some moe here, and there." (LOL) That's all he ever talks about, wanting more moe. He doesn't say what type of moe he wants, or what kind it needs, so eventually I have to ask him "What exactly do you want?" And he replies "That's for you to think about."
>Takeuchi responsible for all the moe in Type-Moon
http://tsukikan.com/misc/star-scenario-writer-interview.html
>>150600067
>>150600088
>Takeuchi responsible for all the moe in Type-Moon
>Takeuchi responsible for almost every mishap the series has had since it's creation, most notably the endless Saber clones
This is common knowledge
>>150599960
Even if porn is included for commercial reasons, does that mean the other qualities of the VN don't count?
I don't see how anyone would go throughs hundreds of walls of text for only a few sex scene. Don't think anyone who's gone through the VN only sees the main girls as sexual object, and even if they correspond to typical archetypes, there was much more to them than fanservice.
>>150600068
Fun fact, FSN's original title was "Fate/stay night: Unlimited Blade Works"
>During the plotting stage, it was also the subtitle of Fate/stay night itself.
>The name showed up in the “upcoming works” section of the pamphlets we distributed at the 2001 Winter Comiket, but I wonder how many people in Japan actually noticed it?
>no illya route
false advertising.
>>150600137
Huh, cool.
>>150600137
This. They were probably planning a One True End for Fate but were afraid it wouldn't sell so they divided it into three routes and added sex scenes.
>>150599897
>>150600068
UBW is not the most popular though. UBW is popular among the Dragon Ball crowd
Nice try
>>150597010
It combines waifus and powerlevels
>>150600253
There are hundreds if not thousands of VNs doing that. Why did Fate get popular out of all of them? There had to be something to it.
>>150600237
No other route is as popular.
Not even close.
Go on, no seriously. Tell me the most popular route. And please god don't say Zero. You'll only reveal that you're fucking retarded.
>>150600301
Waifus, powerlevels, and historical characters Anon.
>>150598968
Swords better than Excalibur aren't even that rare in myths.Herc has one (which somehow got into Arthur's hands and he gave Excalibur to Gawain)
>>150599979
It isn't, I don't know what you're looking at. It's got 2293 votes/entries as opposed to F/SN's 4243.
>>150600234
Fate/stay night - Rin and Saber
Fate/other night - Sakura and Illya (merged into HF)
Nasu wanted to write about the fourth war and realized he still had to finish the game. He was hospitalized and still working on Fate route. That's when he contacted Gen Urobutchi. His idea was for him to publish Fate/Zero before FSN but Butcher told him that it would better to wait a few years. They finished the story on parallel with Fate route. It seems like they just held up to do the final version and publish it only after Fate got popular.
>>150600301
Type-Moon charm. Same reason why Tsukihime was overwhelmingly popular at the time for a doujin title.
>>150600212
Read the interviews sometime.
http://completematerial.pbworks.com/w/page/32479544/Index
heavens-feel.com/type-moon_10_anniversary_phantasm_translation.html
http://tsukikan.com/misc/
>>150598638
>Zero, to it's credit actually did manage to basically side or downgrade the scales for the most part without tampering with that, but that might be because it had 2 pre-existing characters so they could just make 2 foils for them aand the rest can be whatever without it being an issue.
Zero generally made had a much weaker roster of servants (in terms of powerlevels) but compensated by having a much stronger cast of masters.
That said I don't believe it's crucial to keep the stakes at a similar or higher level, especially in a separate story, even more so when they're all spin-offs anyway. One thing that bothers me about all these spin-offs is that whilst F/SN does have this wild historical figure death tournament backdrop going on, it's used as precisely as that. It's only the setting for telling a story that's much more focused (exploration of the ideal of being a superhero). I feel like a lot of the spin-offs don't aim for that at all and instead just focus on throwing bigger and badder bullshit servants around the joint without any real substance. See F/GO for the biggest offender.
>>150600677
>Nasu: To tell you the truth, the original plan for FGO was to have it be a two-part story. I wrote the settings and backstories while dreaming sweet dreams like, “If this game becomes popular…” This hasn’t changed since Fate/EXTRA’s inception. So if players keep on supporting us and the game keeps on going, we have plans for what comes after. Honestly, working on FGO is incredibly fun, if only I didn’t have any other work on the side.
I like it because of porn
VN is just rubbish
Animesare pretty enjoyable
>>150601325
>VN is just rubbish
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8EQ69A9M9Y
>>150601365
RUBBISH
Fate/Stay Night is a gateway eroge of the worst kind. It's a bad game, a clusterfuck of story and characterization that isn't very well done by any aspect, but which attempts to compensate for its weaknesses by adding in excessive powerlevel faggotry and DARKNESS. The normal anon can see this as the shit it is, and may enjoy it, hate it or be indifferent to it, but all the while recognizing that the VN itself, regardless of their opinion, is plain bad.
However, these very aspects that try to smear over the shit of its core make it a breeding ground for aspie, unsociable underageb& faggots who engage in every kind of faggotry both online and in the real world. The superpowered characters all trying their hardest to look cool, the Noble Phantasms, ridiculous, color-coded clothes, the whole Servant faggotry and everything about the Fate/Stay Night world fuels their escapist fantasies, while the pity-party character backgrounds, emphasis on the NATURE of HEROISM, and overall chuuni tone of the VN makes it fit just right with the mary-sueish drives of your average preteen and his sense of unwarranted self-importance towards the world. Exactly the kind of shit that makes little kiddies and underageb& retards eat this shit right the fuck up.
Fate/Stay Night is basically THE franchise to attract the most hated fanbase known to /a/, which is why, regardless of individual opinions, it is the responsibility of every anon to troll the fuck out of this franchise and everyone who likes it, and ensure that no Fate/Stay Night threads ever encourage the newfriends to show their faces here.
>>150597010
The heroines and the servants plus the action scenes from ufotable.
>>150598163
>Characters
>World
>Powerwanking
>Great music barring 2014
>Nasu's weird prose
Only 1 and 3 are spot on. Japanese don't care about everything else.
>>150598390
>four main routes including an Ilya route
This is bait.
>I began to hook Urobuchi Gen with baits
Oh, so this is where unlimited bait works meme comes from. Who would've thunk.
>rereleased many times, ps2, ps vita, ios
>manga and anime series and even a prequel series
>>150601690
LUL this bait
>>150597010
The breakout for Tsukihime was specifically because it had an overtly strong story that essentially overshadowed the sexual content, and was very uncharacteristic of a doujinsoft game in those days(2000 and before), and Fate continued and expanded upon that.
>>150600067
The execution was perfect, you are only complain because you are a sjw cuck that hates sex. Fuck off and kill yourself.
>>150601690
Fate/stay night is something more than that. It's an entire living, breathing world. And it poetically mirrors the horrors in our world.
The anime writes the story on centuries of history. Conquest, technology, expansion, death... It's all there. Nasu's canvas is far too large for small men to behold, I suppose.
My words are failing to sway you? We're in disagreement over art... Which is roughly analogous to dancing about architecture.
Fate/stay night is an aesthetic experience. I can't tap into your nervous system and make you see what I see, but I can try to explain the soaring heights Fate/stay night sent the show going public to.
Citing sources is a pedantic exercise. And besides, this is a forum for those to kick back and appreciate great art: a bit like a gentleman's club in centuries past. Here we chomp our cigars and wax poetic about the great works and the unanswerable questions.
I must say that you've (the non-believers) made a pariah of yourself at this club. What is instantly evident to us (the mastery of Nasu's Fate) isn't something you grasp. It's an exercise on futility to educate on the whys and wherefores of cinema. Suffice it to say you have proven yourself a dunce among gentlemen. I consider my point carried and Fate again redeemed.
That may sound like a hominem as populum, but so is telling a schizophrenic man he isn't really seeing ghosts. When the entire community of learned anime connoisseurs clearly sees a work of genius, it's an act of insane vanity to attack it.
>>150601690
>>150602563
Fate and Nasu are simply beyond you, those of you in disagreement. I wish I could help you, but I fear there's no fixing stupid.
Dancing atop this fathomless ocean of meaning is Nasu's story. It revels in all that lies beneath, but only suggests... Only hints. He leaves it to you to draw the myriad connections he's put in the anime.
But this requires, you see, some understanding of history, science, imperialism, philosophy, theology, astronomy, and anthropology.
Fuyuki City is simply too grand a creation for some to come to terms with. Maybe one day you'll grow up enough to "get" it. I've seen it about 15 times and I'm still learning.
Fate/stay night grounds its storytelling in solid plotting instead of messianic symbolism: which is actually harder to pull off and requires more craftsmanship but doesn't impress the pretentious teenagers.
'What is a hero? What is the significance of an ideal?' Nasu begs these questions, among others. He expressed a refreshing taste of philosophy that delved into epistemology and ontology, along with a thirst for the truth which I related with to the nth degree.
There's pretty much unanimous consensus among scholars that Fate/stay night is an eastern masterpiece... One of the very few that stands shoulder-to-shoulder with Citizen Kane or Lawrence of Arabia.
This is not a journey about war. This is a film about being human. And what it means to be human. And according to Nasu, this means being in touch with your environment and world. And I agree with him.
>>150597010
Japs and /a/ have shit taste
>>150602563
>>150602586
The only good part of UBW threads desu
>>150597010
They're people with perpetual shit taste followed up with a splash of nostalgia that makes them unable to see how trash the series is. To add insult to injury is that normalfags have taken a liking to it because they too have perpetual shit taste.Illya is a pretty cute loli though.
>>150602731
Ever considered that you're the one with shit taste? Most Fate fans are quite intelligent and have no trouble keeping up with the loaded philosophical discussions threads often turn into.
>>150602563
>>150602586
Holy shit this pasta.
>>150602829
>Most Fate fans are quite intelligent
>>150602563
>learned anime connoisseurs
Sounds cool. Where do they ger certifivcates from?
>>150602829
>loaded philosophical discussions
Please don't pretend your shit is nicer smelling that it really is.
>>150602829
most fate fans are shit eating retards who thinks fate is about servant power levels and probably play the shitty knock off video games
>>150598163
Mollusks
>>150603273
Wrong game, same author.
>>150602829
lmao
>>150600312
HF is the most popular route among people who actually like other TM works too. UBW is only popular among shounenfags.
>>150597010
If anyone serious ever makes a clinical study of chuuni, FSN and probably this very picture needs to be on the front cover.
>>150605360
Y realize that Archer intentionally puts up the chuuni Batman front right? It's part of his character.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gd1gYH8g2Vg
Fate/Grand Order anime PV
Looks mediocre.
>>150605461
>DUDE POORLY DRAWN STILLS LMAO
Im glad this kusoge gets a shit adaptation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DRlHOAG3cw
F/GO CM 7
Well-animated, unlike the anime PV
>>150605506
Finally Medusa Lily from the datamine is coming out.
>>150605506
why is rin half naked
>>150605583
I don't even know what's going on in F/GO.
>>150605583
Because she's literally the whore of Babylon.
>>150605200
Explain
>>150605654
What happened to Rin?
>>150598277
>2016
>Not even knowing about ORT, the DAA, or MEoDP
>ISHYGDDT
>>150605706
They gave her the Saber treatment as she is one of the most popular characters
>>150605583
She possessed by Ishtar, the goddess of fertility, love, war, sex, and power who also had a cult that practiced sacred prostitution.
>>150605759
Is there a reason why Rin was chosen?
>>150605780
Rin is the sluttiest character in the series.
>>150605681
Fate and UBW are completely different in tone from Type-Moon's earlier works like Tsukihime and clearly written for a more casual and mainstream audience, due to F/SN being their first non-doujin work. HF returns to the more subtle storytelling style that his earlier works had, with grey morality and ambiguous scenes.
The fans that got into Type-Moon through F/SN because they wanted action scenes find HF too complicated for them and hate it, but those who were already familiar with Type-Moon's style like HF the most and find Fate and UBW to be generic shounen trash.
>>150605830
Fate and UBW are not generic shounen trash.
>>150605780
>This form is not that of the goddess Ishtar herself, but a pseudo-Servant condition in which a human that has a wavelength close to her own was made into a vessel.
She's basically the person that's the most compatible with her.
>>150605870
Guess that makes Rin sluttier than Sakura then.
>>150605853
>I'm gonna be a superhero and save everyone! Just because you're correct, it doesn't mean you're right!
Real mature writing.
>>150605907
Pretty much. By the way, Sakura's equivalent is Parvati. The goddess of love, devotion and fertility.
>>150605830
UBW's introspection is far more reminiscent of Kara no Kyoukai and Tsukihime than anything in HF. It looks like you're just trying to deflect legitimate problems people have with the route.
>>150597010
I just liked it for the cooking scenes.
>>150598659
Did someone say "Soujuurou Appreciation Thread"?
>>150597010
Powerlevels and waifus which nerds tend to find pretty much irresistible, OP
>tfw GO anime confirmed for 2017
>>150606037
>problems
What problems?
>>150597010
Shirou.
>>150606380
>tfw Tsukihime anime confirmed for 2003
>tfw Kara no Kyoukai anime confirmed for 2007
>>150605928
>type-moon
>mature writing
choose one
>>150606797
>you
>decent posts
choose one
>>150606163
Is Mahoyo even translated yet?
>>150605907
>>150607008
Nope, partial up to chapter 6 or 7 I think? How this happens with such an enormous fanbase is beyond me.
>>150607042
Why the Apple card?
>>150607044
People say that a lot. It's because beast's lair is slow and take their time with kagetsu tohya, fate/hollow ataraxia and mahoyo. one project at a time.
>>150607044
I don't think the larger, modern Fate fanbase gives two shits about TM's other works sadly.
>>150607076
why would they? the main fate series is translated and the spinoffs (ccc, apocrypha, strange fake) are slowly being worked on by small teams.
>>150597010
Shit taste, because Fate/Stay Night is fucking terrible. A complete and utter waste of an interesting premise/concept. So many fucking things wrong with this shit franchise, no wonder people eat it up.
>>150607205
>So many fucking things wrong with this shit franchise
>>150607249
Concept is heroes fighting for mages, mages like Shirou take the spotlight constantly instead of heroes.
Basic premise is fighting for the grail, lol the grail is corrupt. Refuses to play the concept straight.
Inconsistent character of Saber. Saber alone drops the quality of this franchise to scary depths, and every clone of her drills further down.
Bullshit interpretations of heroic legends because lol cute girls or lol isn't Gil cooler when he's not a burly wrestling dude?
Pretentious to ALL fucking hell.
Cheap rape as drama.
Sex because I dunno, it's an eroge.
Slice of life segments are patently awful.
Shirou is goddamn fucking awful as a protagonist.
Most of the characters are simply not very compelling, just simple archetypes like "tsundere", "quiet and broken girl, stiff chick, playful loli"and so on.
Archer makes no fucking sense. Most of the extended shit makes no fucking sense, sasuga Nasu.
The franchise is overly huge and grows worse and worse with each and every entry except ARGUABLY Zero.
Beamspam battles out the ass.
>>150607338
You forgot boring as fuck too
>>150607404
GOD is it fucking BORING
That's kind of covered under Slice of Life segments being awful. I barely could make it through the first VN. So much stupid fluff.
>>150607338
>Shirou is goddamn fucking awful as a protagonist.
>Archer makes no fucking sense. Most of the extended shit makes no fucking sense, sasuga Nasu.
The franchise is overly huge and grows worse and worse with each and every entry except ARGUABLY Zero.
?
>>150597010
>>150597100
>>150597522
nah. its because even though shirou is a faggot, they managed to make him relatable enough to be the everyman who reads it.
like really, thats it.
the fights, the chracters, romance, sex, its all second to making tantamount sure that the main character is relatble, so that all the effort you put elsewhere isn't for nothing. People can't seem to grasp how important the self insert is for jap shit, its the entire basis for the majority of VNs being in first person for fuck sake.
>>150607421
Uro: True. Fate/stay night was originally conceptualized as a bishojo game, so the very individual theme of "romance" was placed at the core. It had to be written from Shirou's point of view. So then I thought, I have this really powerful core idea of all these Eiyuu (heroic spirits) engaged in a Battle Royale, so why not draw their story from multiple point of views? That's why I tried to work more main characters into Fate/Zero other than simply Kiritsugu and Kirei.
Nasu: I had no other choice but to make Fate/stay night the way I did for that bishojo game format. That was one of the reasons why I once said to Urobuchi, "I don't think I can make bishojo games anymore." The more you pour both what the author wants to draw and romance elements that will excite the users into a work, the more distant they get from each other... that was my dilemma. Trying to force them together would only warp the work. Then, at the same time, Urobuchi-san decided to stop focusing on bishojo games and distance himself from the genre. He created an exciting, self-indulgent Macaraoni-esque revenge opera called Zoku Satsuriku no Django, (*10) and I was just like... waaaah!
http://tsukikan.com/misc/nasu-kinoko-takeuchi-takashi-urobuchi-gen-special-forum.html
>>150607424
Do you think Shirou is fun or entertaining or likable or smart in any way? He's an irritating high school boy with irritating values, and it doesn't matter that they try to point out the flaws if you still have to deal with his fucking dumb ass for hours.
Archer makes no actual sense. He's an alternate timeline version of the main character that somehow came from the futurepast as a counter guardian (a WHAT?) and he's a hero for some reason despite not being legendary because of some convoluted exceptions to the rule. He's an archer who uses swords, like Gil, which is retarded.
Zero is somewhat compelling and I feel like it handled the concept of the franchise the best, though I still have problems with it.
>>150607455
how is shirou relatable to the average gamer?
>>150607455
But Shirou isn't that relatable? He's a great character, but people reading it for the first time often complain complain about him being dense or too invested in his ideal (which is obviously the point). That alone proves they can't properly "relate" to him. Not to mention an athletic, hard working, and sociable ginger isn't what most otaku would like to self-insert into.
>>150607481
Confirming Nasu is a hack..
Which is weird because honestly I think he balanced SoL and action rather decently in Tsukihime. At least, I never felt like I might fall asleep reading.
I don't understand why I like FSN so much. I think in the end it just boils down to a simple action/adventure story with the cute waifus -.-
>>150607508
Why do you hate Shirou so much?
>>150607455
I found Shiki more relatable than Shirou, since Shirou's kind of sardonic, more legitimately average, and pretty likable.
Shirou is an idiot. How am I going to relate to that?
>>150607596
Aggravating moron who steals the limelight despite not being cool at all. Really fucking pissed me off in the Fate route in particular, where he kept trying to protect and discourage from fighting the clearly superior Saber because BWUH UR A GRL THO
>>150607042
>love, including that between humans and animals
That explains why she sleeps with pigs.
Nasu: As the writer, it's hard for me to get a sense, but a quote I once heard from a mentor of mine named Tsutsui Kiyoshi (*1) comes to mind: "The 'enemy' that main characters face in romance novels written before the 80s is different from the 'enemy' they face in romance novels written after the 90s." Romance novels up to the 80s had enemies that represented distortions in society. In novels written after the 90s, main characters begin fighting with problems in their own surroundings, in a more personal scope. Thinking about that, with both Ryougi Shiki in Kara no Kyoukai and Emiya Shirou in Fate/stay night, the characters suffer from trying to come to terms with problems in their own narrow perspectives. The ones who stand in their ways, Araya Souren and Kotomine Kirei, are simply people who fought against the world itself and lost in the past -- the main characters from the 80s.
Uro: Since Araya and Kotomine's value systems have completely matured, they act as a great wall for the troubled main characters. Yet the main characters must still overcome the wall of the previous generation... I think both Kara no Kyoukai and Fate/stay night fit into that category. However, I will say that I think the style of main characters has changed even further in the 21st century.
Takeuchi: Personally, I think many main characters don't purposefully opt to fight. Something comes, attacks them, and gets in the way of their goal, and they must drive the enemy back.
Nasu: "I don't want to fight, but I must sweep away the flames." That's their stance. It's true that the sort of works where main characters with strong goals collide with their enemies are dying out.
>>150607512
>>150607535
and yet shirou's "gonna save people even if it kills me" attitude is the number one archetype we see in shounen works for main characters.
you have to see the parallel there. even if people don't admit it outright, readers are meant to and will self insert into that personality type
>>150605780
Because it's fuckin sell. She's popular character. Wait some time and everyone will be possesed by servants. Welcome to F/GO trash
>>150607680
You didn't like the date between Shirou and Saber and the kiss they shared after deflecting Gilgamesh's Ea with Avalon?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYzB_6VaGmg
>>150607421
I thought I'd give the vn a chance after watching the shows and after the rider building battle I couldn't be bothered anymore. It reads rather awkwardly, it has no pacing at all and god its dreadfully dull.
>>150607649
> he kept trying to protect and discourage from fighting the clearly superior Saber because BWUH UR A GRL THO
It's amazing how secondaries fall for this every time. Never fails, holy hell.
>what's cool about being a good-hearted guy who will give everything for his ideals?
>I preferred Shiki because he was more average so I could self-insert more easily
>>150607455
why does a character have to be relatable to be good?
>>150607596
Not Anon, but, reading the VNs, I was never able to take his accomplishments seriously, given that the premise of the whole plot asserted the unmatchable superiority of servants over humans, yet all the most essential plot related battles are primarily fought by Shirou... I was always rolling my eyes and wondering "When is this story going to live up to its reputation, and stop feeling like a typical shounen that's written for 13 year olds?"
The ero scenes also did not help my liking his character at all. It's hard to care about about the moral motivations of a protagonist with a clearly masochistic fetish for rape and pedophilia.
>>150607744
>>It's amazing how secondaries fall for this every time. Never fails, holy hell.
I read the VN, how am I a secondary?
Oh no, but that was the point! He was wrong! And what's so bad about being a fucking retard who pushes for his ideals despite it not making any fucking sense to do so? Belittling this incredibly powerful heroic figure makes him so cool! And what about in Heaven's Feel when he realized things? That makes him SUCH a good character.
Fuck off, annoying is annoying.
>relatability is a bad thing
I never said anything about self-inserting, but relatable characters are good in any kind of fiction, whether they are male or female. For example, Akiha is a bit relatable too as a spaghetti-spilling girl who attempts to be mature.
>>150607754
>yet all the most essential plot related battles are primarily fought by Shirou...
What? Did you honestly not even read the Fate route, secondary-kun? That literally only happens in the 2nd half of UBW and the very end of HF (and even then, not all of them).
>masochistic fetish for rape and pedophilia
That's just Nasu senpai, you should read Tsukihime and Kagetsu Tohya if you think F/SN takes that too far.
>>150607752
>implying i said he was a good character
im saying hes not a character at all, but a barely personified set of VERY two dimensional beliefs with a phaux "tragic" history written as a stand in for the audience who only acts to advance the plot
>>150607847
Not him but what pissed me off was that he kept trying to get in the way because of his ideals.
He wouldn't stop, it got on my nerves. There's fighting for your ideals, and there's being a moron.
>>150607754
>a clearly masochistic fetish for rape and pedophilia.
can you point out the lines in any of the various releases where shirou states "im gonna rape that loli" ?
anon, YOU want him to rape that loli, because YOU want to rape that loli
>>150607885
Yes, I guess you must not have finished the VN either. Or even gotten to UBW.
>>150607965
>I GUESS YOU JUST DIDN'T
Okay you fucking moron
Fate is Fate, UBW is UBW, you can't play anything past Fate without finishing Fate, you finish Fate with a bad impression of Shirou, which is your first impression.
The changes he experiences in UBW and HF do NOT roll back on his shitty feelings, and the fact of the matter IS, SABER is the main Heroine, so the closest "clear message" of the work is how Shirou acted with Saber.
In other words, his shitty ideals.
In expanded works, for the most part he remains an idealistic fool who cooks a lot. The only exception I can think of is Prisma Illya in which there's basically an alt reality version of him, so it doesn't even really count.
>>150607940
Anon, some of the sex scenes are really rapey, that's been happening since Shiki (although he was much worse). As for lolis, of course Illya is very sexualized and she teases Shirou, but that's just an anime thing in general. Len has a footjob and a full-on h-scene in KT as well.
>>150607847
>fanart
>boobs are three times enlarged
every fucking time
>>150608035
>what is increasing a character's depth through further caratherization
Fate lets you see the more idiotic, naive side of Shirou's ideals. UBW deals more with his psyche and allows you to fully understand the impact they actually have on him as a person, while also confronting him with their flaws. HF then presents a completely different direction, showing that Shirou has the capability to change in that way as well.
If all this development does not change your perspective on the character, it's understandable, but realize that it's very much due to your personal biases. The VN's structure and how it slowly unravels Shirou's character to the reader is not even up for debate.
>In expanded works
Which are really all just fanservice and comedic stuff. In F/HA he's Avenger for the serious scenes. F/SN and Prisma Illya are really the only instances where he's an important character, and he's taken seriously in both.
>>150608190
Personal bias nothin.
As a work of writing, opening up with several hours of bad impressions followed with trying to break it down or justify it aren't going to change my mind, shouldn't change my mind, and didn't.
It didn't help that the story continued to be not actually interesting to me in any way, probably.
>>150597010
The main plot arc of Unlimited Blade Works, I think, is every heroic fantasy ever come to life. Never mind all the clumsy subplots or whatever, the core concept is amazing.
I'll be honest, I don't like the other two routes as much, though I do like Zero a lot.
I'm also pretty amused by how confused people would be if they only watched Zero and UBW. I mean, they'd be like:
> "What, Kirei just dies out of nowhere? He didn't even fight Shirou!"
> "Ilya dies without really meeting Shirou? What the hell's with that?"
> "Why does Sakura vanish halfway through the plot, and the issue of her being Rin's sister never shows up again?"
> "Didn't Kitsurugu put Avalon into Shirou? Is it ever going to show up?"
It appeals to teenagers and self insert fags which are not mutually exclusive. The story, characterisation, and world building are very bad, never go to the direction which could realise its potential, and only make start to make sense if you see it through the eyes of a teenager projecting himself onto the main character, which for all purposes and intent this game is made to be like, so you cant really criticise that.
>>150607847
It happens alot, is my point. Shirou was also way too involved in the Fate route, too. Although, granted, that was a little different. It's worth mentioning that I read the Fate route almost blind, as I like to do as much as possible with things I pick up, and in that I did not at all comprehend that there was a "message" being conveyed by Nasu about Shirou's character through what superficially appeared to be nauseatingly redundant and typical shounenshit writing. A misunderstanding this anon also demonstrates:
>>150607885
It's kind of really funny that Nasu's arguably unsuccessful attempt at writing a archetypal deconstruction turns out, for most of the first route, to simply be a poorly written version of the original archetype. And then, in the second and third routes, becomes pretty much indistinguishable from that archetype.
Maybe I would have enjoyed the Saber route more if I'd known what I was getting into ahead of time, and if I'd skipped the ero scenes
>>150608111
Arc canonically has big arcs though.
>>150597010
>they are summoning famous heroes from all eras
>oh, and king arthur is a girl
It's like a 3-level chocolate waterfall over a cake. With a dancing flamingo on top. You just gotta see it.
>>150607338
Have a you for the effort.
>>150607940
Like anon points out, the rapeyness doesn't need to be argued. The pedophilia part can be said to extend beyond the relatively brief sexualization of Illya, as well. Because in his ero scenes with Saber and Rin, Shitrou's internal dialogue does make occasional references about how stimulating to him it is that Rin/Saber physically resemble children. It always strikes me as odd that this seems to go unnoticed by the readers here. It's a completely out of character thing for shirou to feel / think, and therefore casts a rather large shadow over the rest of his motives
>>150608445
>asked to list faults
>list faults
>HERE'S A YOU
As expected of fans of this unimaginative garbage.
>>150608484
>garbage
Quite
>unimaginative
Now that seems a little unfair
>>150608519
It is though. The default base of the franchise is "what if we took well-known heroes and had a well-known class of fictional beings (mages) fight with them over a well-known artifact (the grail)"
"but let's make the main hero a heroine instead, moefied!"
I might call it imaginative for "bringing legends together", but powerlevel arguments between legends has been a thing for a while. I'll admit, though, that I can't actually think of something that outright utilized the concept. Then again, Fate only utilizes the concept poorly. Extremely poorly.
Tsukihime lacks imagination too (VAMPIRES), but Mystic Eyes of Death Perception are fucking cool, and all the concepts that come with them (though I guess KnK had them first?)
>>150608035
kys faggot
>>150608615
>kys
Take your own advice or get off the fucking board at the very least.
This is the sort of person this franchise brings.
>>150608635
Huh? What sort of person, the correct kind? He literally said nothing wrong.
>>150608696
If you actually think it's acceptable to type "kys", you may as well fuck off too.
>>150608615
>hurr durr
That kind of shit stopped being edgy like 5 years ago. Now absolutely everybody is doing it, all the time, thinking they're being original and individualistic, but really it just makes our board cultures and communities shittier and not fun.
>>150608288
While "three times" is an exaggeration of an exaggeration in this case, I think we can both agree they are noticeably larger, fuller, and more hefty in general.
Disgusting
>>150608789
Heftier breasts are great, though. But sure, canon is best.
>Fate Extra anime
>FGO anime
>Prisma movie
>HF trilogy
How do we stop Nasu?
>>150609060
Getting some taste for a change
>>150598669
>Lets list all the characters who main defining characteristic is that they are smug, a strong, and confident that they are strong (smug)
> Rin, Archer, Rider, Caster, Shinji
555-COME-ON-NOW
>>150609279
1-800-NOTANARGUMENT
Can we take a break from the endless pasta and dick fights to post shirou?
>>150609540
Always
>>150609540
Emiya Shirou
>>150610016
Kotomine...Kirei
>>150610016
>>150611788
Why is Kirei a way more interesting character than Shirou?
Reminder that Shirou and Saber areholding handsin Avalon RIGHT NOW.
>>150607455
that VN part is so right. god, vn writing is so shit.
>>150607684
Who could posses Shirou? Or Luvia? or fucking Shinji?
>>150611891
Who grows 2 feet between age 18 and 25?
Fuggin nips
>>150612069
Hassan for Shinji and EMIYA for Shirou are already things.
Luvia would probably just get something really Rin-like.
>>150609329
>All these characters are the same when they clearly aren't
You described Gil and only him. Some people like Lancer and Shinji have smug in spades but their character and motivation is much different.
>>150611820
He is voiced by Nakata Jouji.
>>150612069
Shirou = Emiya. Obvious.
Luvia = No idea.
Shinji = Perseus. Rider says they were pretty similar, Perseus was a successful Shinji.
>>150612126
>>150612220
>Emiya for Shirou
Couldn't they make it, I don't know, a little less obvious?
Though, I don't really know of an historical figure as dense on justice and swords like him
And that is also good with cooking
>>150612273
The only one I can think of for cooking is Date Masamune
>>150612144
Archer and Lancer are really similar characters in many ways, superficially. If you didn't know the plot structure behind Archer, and you just looked at them both through the lens of their personality, they'd be almost identical characters
>>150597010
It's pokemon but with waifuable characters.
>>150612193
Who?